Originally posted by Khalathwyr Never brought that "game's" name up in what I wrote nor even thought about when I was writing that. So, that's your comparison, not mine. I don't ever use that game as a realistic reference point when talking about realistic achievements in the MMO genre.
I was pointing the absurdity of saying a game was unsuccessful without using a point of comparison...
Never brought that "game's" name up in what I wrote nor even thought about when I was writing that. So, that's your comparison, not mine. I don't ever use that game as a realistic reference point when talking about realistic achievements in the MMO genre.
I was pointing the absurdity of saying a game was unsuccessful without using a point of comparison...
Well, welcome to the fact that not everyone is going to lay things out specifically for you in the way you want.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
From what I remember, DDO isn't distgustingly bad at all. It's quite competent as an MMO where you can explore and actually go dungeon crawling. Remember Dungeons & Dragons? At least the first several levels were nice. I don't know about the rest of the game content. Can anyone name any other MMOs with similar freedom when it comes to exploring, climbing, jumping, swimming? And not just as a gimmick either, but as a necessary part of the game that rewards you? A large world might be cool, but it seems it's something they could add if they wanted to / had the resources. No need for the game to be completely trashed and remade.
There's none other mate. DDO does it the best. And if you liked FIRST quests, you'd be completely blown out of the water if you played more. Trust me. DDO: Eberron Unlimited WILL be a success in my opinion, that game defends itself now. And with such big "free trial", being it free to play, it will surely give Turbine few times more money than ever before.
But this isn't enough. They must earn specific amount of $ for Atari in limited time, or Atari will sue them and take their license away.
Let's be honest. 9/10 of people who play this game now ask one question: "WHY no one ever told me about this game! This is unbelievable, because it's great!".
In other words, Atari was a sinking ship for years now. They NEVER advertised DDO, excluding few months 3+ years ago. Yet it lived on it's own even without a single advertisement, single banner.
For those who hope for better D&D MMO, especially in 3.5 or earlier ruleset...
First of all, no ona CAN do it. Any new game simply must be 4e, because it's the only one officially running and being supported be WotC.
Then, if you wan an "open world" MMO with D&D ruleset, I'm afraid this may be only "sketches" of this ruleset. Look at Warhammer Online. Do you see anything even slightly resembling Warhammer Fantasy Battle or Fantasy Roleplay rule there?
There's nothing like this. There's only Warhammer "theme", "feel", and maybe world, if that's not to big of a word here.
If you really want to see D&D rules in game, jumping, swimming, trap disarming, balance skills, tumble, real D&D ruleset and mechanics - stick with Turbine. Or just wait and see.
Evebody know that most people who would like to play D&D Online don't know it's ruleset and fear it will be too complicated. So consciously Turbine chose "true" way. But it you want the game to REALLY sell, you must make it dumb, easy to learn, shiny and for everyone out there. Even idiots, even children, even trolls from the basement and bored daddys.
So, if you really want to see D&D IP for an MMO to be moved elswhere from Turbine, you will probably get a heavy cash cow, but fans of D&D will most likely feel betrayed and forgotten.
Let's be straight, again. New "open world" MMO with Forgotten Realms as a "theme" won't require for devs to make it true to D&D rules in any way. So why bother with all those rules and their problems for an MMO with large PvP, etc? Do you really trust some new developer, who ISN'T Turbine, will make really better D&D MMO? Leave PvP unbalanced just because they will want to stick with the ruleset where possible?
I think that's really naive guys. If anyone was to create new D&D Online, I hope it will be Turbine. They're experienced and could make it better than anyone, if not the problem with sinking Atari and their new Cryptic.
I hope WotC will reconsider who they want to entrust their IP for all PC games, and make Atari sink forever. Bioware already has nothing to do with D&D just because of Atari. Are we so happy about it? That it's not D&D in Dragon Age which is coming, but something which only resembles D&D to dodge copyrights?
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
mm the right or wtv they call it was is will be to atari whatever turbine would like to wish for.i dont believe atari did anything wrong in the past .the problem its been what 2 years 3 since the launch of this game and now turbine would like to have a superbol publicity on the back of atari .i agre with atari ,turbine is lucky to still have the right for the game if i was atari i would pull the plug from turbine for ddo ,atari asnt done one ddo game they made a lot of ddo game in the past .if turbine push atari to the corner
they wont like the reaction from atari not one bit and turbine as more to loose then atari in this
Considering how awfull CO is and how Cryptic/Atari is screwing with their customers and acting really shady I dont see how anyone would want them to make a MMO (based on the awfull D&D 4.0)
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
mm the right or wtv they call it was is will be to atari whatever turbine would like to wish for.i dont believe atari did anything wrong in the past .the problem its been what 2 years 3 since the launch of this game and now turbine would like to have a superbol publicity on the back of atari .i agre with atari ,turbine is lucky to still have the right for the game if i was atari i would pull the plug from turbine for ddo ,atari asnt done one ddo game they made a lot of ddo game in the past .if turbine push atari to the corner
they wont like the reaction from atari not one bit and turbine as more to loose then atari in this
You have no idea what you are talking about. In fact. That is not even humanly comprehensible.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Considering how awfull CO is and how Cryptic/Atari is screwing with their customers and acting really shady I dont see how anyone would want them to make a MMO (based on the awfull D&D 4.0)
Yeah. So if anyone really wants to see _real_ D&D in any MMO, support Turbine all the time. We can say it's not 100% D&D 3.5 ruleset, but I'm still amazed seeing their dedication to make it a real D&D game. That alone make this game too hard for average WoW player. So they've limited their income to make it D&D in feel and in it's core - the rules.
Other than that, please guys, try this game at 9th of September (or 1st if you played recent beta / had a paid sub in the past). Then come here and say it's horrible. 3 years ago this game was so different and tiny, that there's no point in judging present game by that...
mm your probably right papa d&d ruleset is probably not easy to fully implement in a mmo ,its a shame because d&d ruleset
have been going on for for a long while ,the problem i see here is the same problem microsoft face
i remember when ibm was the king of sofware with dos etc then a noob come out of ibm stable and develop windows men we could see color it wasnt easy now everybody is sueing microsoft for various bogus reason ,
how come those company pushing to sue microsoft dont do a new software instead of cripling microsoft
they cant ! and in their head its the fault of microsoft ya right ,did you see ibm whine and sue microsoft like that then .i dont believe they did
and you know what ibm is still one of the top company of the world ,ibm dont speak a lot but god they act a lot !did you see the new techno that will come out in september ps3 yep good old blue processor not from new kid on the block intel ,no ser its a 45 nm sized processor they ll make so much of them even toshiba is in the bandwagon
so when i see proffessionnal suer ,i just think those guys are there to cripple various company in the world .
this wont help turbine and sure wont help atari either once all is said and done in court player will just move away from both game made by those company just in case player get splashed by bad rep(men its a shame )
The dungeons are very good. I don’t think I have played a mmo with this level of detail dungeon wise (traps, puzzles, scripted events); also every class brings something useful to the table. I know everyone hates instancing but I don’t see how you could make a game like this work without it.
Just to add I really like the 4th edition rule set.
Everyone hates Atari. Which just FYI is not Atari at all - its a company that bought the legendary name Atari.
They screwed every D&D product since they accuired the licence. They are the reason Bioware refuses to make any D&D game anymore.
But WOTC is stubborn in not extending the licence to nobody but Atari.
I must say I gasped when i saw Cryptic sign deal with them...but it must be the Bill Roper curse.
Its sad Turbine, which is probably the best MMO developer right now ( probably better even than Blizzard) have to put up with this crap. Especially now when DDO is so close to be released.
As for new D&D MMO. Sure I would love to see it. But it depends who will make it.
Also 4ed D&D is perfect for MMO. Actually its a rip off of MMO rules - so its only fitting its converted back into MMO
Breaking: Turbine sues Atari over Dungeons & Dragons Online:
"Turbine has filed a lawsuit against publishing partner Atari in New York courts for a breach of licensing agreement all centered around Dungeons and Dragons Online. The two companies are locked in a legal battle regarding accusations including failing contractual obligations and wrongful termination of agreements.
The court documents filed on Monday paint the picture of a long chain of grievances against Atari made by Turbine, starting with lackluster support all the way back when Dungeons and Dragons Online: Stormreach launched in 2006. Turbine asserts that Atari has failed to maintain their obligations as the publisher of the game while still holding onto the licensing for Dungeons and Dragons. These obligations mostly include the marketing aspects of the game, such as commercials, advertising, retail box creation, retail promotion, and cross-promotion with other Atari products. (Fans of the game will remember the very lackluster marketing campaign at the game's launch, especially when compared with Champions Online's marketing, another Atari-backed game.) Because of these failures, Turbine has had to step in and become the publisher of the game in North America, costing the company millions of dollars.
The lawsuit goes on further to describe a plot made by Atari to wrongfully terminate the licensing agreement and shake down Turbine for more money, even while the agreement was being updated to support the game's transition to the free to play model and Turbine was offering Atari a good faith payment of thousands of dollars future royalties. The documents suggest that Atari's motivation for letting this agreement update go through was to take Turbine's good faith payment before severing the agreement completely, shutting out Turbine while simultaneously paving the road for Atari's competing product (which we can only assume is Cryptic Studio's Champions Online.)
Atari hasn't been content to stay silent on this whole matter, stating to Courthouse News that Turbine over invested in Dungeons and Dragons Online to demand more consideration from Atari than called for by the agreement in question. The company also goes on to say that Turbine's lawsuit is threatening the goodwill that Turbine has developed with current and future players who expect to play DDO: Unlimited.
From all of this lawsuit, Turbine is seeking 30 million dollars worth of damages from Atari -- constituting recovered losses from Atari's breaches of contract.
What still seems to be up in the air regarding this whole case is what would happen to Dungeons and Dragons Online should this licensing agreement be terminated. The full rights to the game are between Turbine, Hasbro, Wizards of the Coast, and Atari, however it is Atari who has granted the sublicense for the game to Turbine. Should this agreement completely fall through, will Turbine still have control of the game?
When asked to comment on the case, Turbine released the following statement to Massively: "As a legal matter we can't comment on the particulars of the case. We have recently extended our rights to develop and operate DDO Unlimited until 2016 and are looking forward to our launch next week."
That's what we, players, knew all the time. So it's finally the time of judgement. If DDO was advertised all those years, just imagine the speed of development and how big their DDO team could be. Think about it - most people never tried D&D Online during those 3 years! Most MMO players never seen any DDO banner ever or anything ever - there were only interviews with developers, that was all Turbine could do.
I don't care that Atari didn't have enough money, or if they had financial trouble. They were obliged to publish and advertise, so now it's time to pay for their failure.
Everyone hates Atari. Which just FYI is not Atari at all - its a company that bought the legendary name Atari. They screwed every D&D product since they accuired the licence. They are the reason Bioware refuses to make any D&D game anymore. But WOTC is stubborn in not extending the licence to nobody but Atari. I must say I gasped when i saw Cryptic sign deal with them...but it must be the Bill Roper curse.
Its sad Turbine, which is probably the best MMO developer right now ( probably better even than Blizzard) have to put up with this crap. Especially now when DDO is so close to be released.
As for new D&D MMO. Sure I would love to see it. But it depends who will make it. Also 4ed D&D is perfect for MMO. Actually its a rip off of MMO rules - so its only fitting its converted back into MMO
If Turbine did it, I'm all for that! And if they win, it's really possible. Just wait 2 years of income from DDO, and they can release DDO 2. Heck, I'm sure they'd develop an open world for it and mix it with their unmatched instanced content.
But is there any other developer we could trust to do it good enough? I don't think so. Certainly not Blizzard nor Funcom, NCSoft, etc.
Yes, D&D 4e is good for DDO 2. Just for the sake of it all, leave this license for Turbine and they will handle it, WotC!
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
I agree. Turbine hasn't done anything good since AC1. But I still hope they take a bite out of Atari.
mm your probably right papa d&d ruleset is probably not easy to fully implement in a mmo ,its a shame because d&d ruleset have been going on for for a long while ,the problem i see here is the same problem microsoft face i remember when ibm was the king of sofware with dos etc then a noob come out of ibm stable and develop windows men we could see color it wasnt easy now everybody is sueing microsoft for various bogus reason , how come those company pushing to sue microsoft dont do a new software instead of cripling microsoft they cant ! and in their head its the fault of microsoft ya right ,did you see ibm whine and sue microsoft like that then .i dont believe they did and you know what ibm is still one of the top company of the world ,ibm dont speak a lot but god they act a lot !did you see the new techno that will come out in september ps3 yep good old blue processor not from new kid on the block intel ,no ser its a 45 nm sized processor they ll make so much of them even toshiba is in the bandwagon so when i see proffessionnal suer ,i just think those guys are there to cripple various company in the world . this wont help turbine and sure wont help atari either once all is said and done in court player will just move away from both game made by those company just in case player get splashed by bad rep(men its a shame )
Huh?? WTH are you even trying to say? Talk about not having the slightest clue as to what you are writing about.
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back.
If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari?
Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Although I doubt it will happen, I pray that Atari eye-gouges Turbine and gets control of D&D online properties back from them.
That way, maybe I can still see a competent, dynamic, and diverse online D&D MMO before I die.
As long as Turbine has control, it languishes in severe mediocrity.
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So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari? Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
Although I doubt it will happen, I pray that Atari eye-gouges Turbine and gets control of D&D online properties back from them. That way, maybe I can still see a competent, dynamic, and diverse online D&D MMO before I die. As long as Turbine has control, it languishes in severe mediocrity.
The only thing which speaks from your post, is that it your opinion and game knowlegde of DDO doesn't even match severe mediocrity...
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back.
If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Hey! Don't label me dude!
Yes, if you're familiar with the Forgottem Realms, he is the drow, made famous by R.A. Salvatore.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari? Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari? Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
To be fair, Bioware hasn't launched a successful MMO yet.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari? Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
Eh Bioware have not released any MMOs yet.
And btw, Atari is the reason why Bioware isnt doing D&D games anymore...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
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mm more content then any mmo out there?when you choose you choose big!
Well, welcome to the fact that not everyone is going to lay things out specifically for you in the way you want.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Good for Turbine. I hope they stomp Atari into the ground.
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There's none other mate. DDO does it the best. And if you liked FIRST quests, you'd be completely blown out of the water if you played more. Trust me. DDO: Eberron Unlimited WILL be a success in my opinion, that game defends itself now. And with such big "free trial", being it free to play, it will surely give Turbine few times more money than ever before.
But this isn't enough. They must earn specific amount of $ for Atari in limited time, or Atari will sue them and take their license away.
Let's be honest. 9/10 of people who play this game now ask one question: "WHY no one ever told me about this game! This is unbelievable, because it's great!".
In other words, Atari was a sinking ship for years now. They NEVER advertised DDO, excluding few months 3+ years ago. Yet it lived on it's own even without a single advertisement, single banner.
For those who hope for better D&D MMO, especially in 3.5 or earlier ruleset...
First of all, no ona CAN do it. Any new game simply must be 4e, because it's the only one officially running and being supported be WotC.
Then, if you wan an "open world" MMO with D&D ruleset, I'm afraid this may be only "sketches" of this ruleset. Look at Warhammer Online. Do you see anything even slightly resembling Warhammer Fantasy Battle or Fantasy Roleplay rule there?
There's nothing like this. There's only Warhammer "theme", "feel", and maybe world, if that's not to big of a word here.
If you really want to see D&D rules in game, jumping, swimming, trap disarming, balance skills, tumble, real D&D ruleset and mechanics - stick with Turbine. Or just wait and see.
Evebody know that most people who would like to play D&D Online don't know it's ruleset and fear it will be too complicated. So consciously Turbine chose "true" way. But it you want the game to REALLY sell, you must make it dumb, easy to learn, shiny and for everyone out there. Even idiots, even children, even trolls from the basement and bored daddys.
So, if you really want to see D&D IP for an MMO to be moved elswhere from Turbine, you will probably get a heavy cash cow, but fans of D&D will most likely feel betrayed and forgotten.
Let's be straight, again. New "open world" MMO with Forgotten Realms as a "theme" won't require for devs to make it true to D&D rules in any way. So why bother with all those rules and their problems for an MMO with large PvP, etc? Do you really trust some new developer, who ISN'T Turbine, will make really better D&D MMO? Leave PvP unbalanced just because they will want to stick with the ruleset where possible?
I think that's really naive guys. If anyone was to create new D&D Online, I hope it will be Turbine. They're experienced and could make it better than anyone, if not the problem with sinking Atari and their new Cryptic.
I hope WotC will reconsider who they want to entrust their IP for all PC games, and make Atari sink forever. Bioware already has nothing to do with D&D just because of Atari. Are we so happy about it? That it's not D&D in Dragon Age which is coming, but something which only resembles D&D to dodge copyrights?
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mm the right or wtv they call it was is will be to atari whatever turbine would like to wish for.i dont believe atari did anything wrong in the past .the problem its been what 2 years 3 since the launch of this game and now turbine would like to have a superbol publicity on the back of atari .i agre with atari ,turbine is lucky to still have the right for the game if i was atari i would pull the plug from turbine for ddo ,atari asnt done one ddo game they made a lot of ddo game in the past .if turbine push atari to the corner
they wont like the reaction from atari not one bit and turbine as more to loose then atari in this
Considering how awfull CO is and how Cryptic/Atari is screwing with their customers and acting really shady I dont see how anyone would want them to make a MMO (based on the awfull D&D 4.0)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
mm the right or wtv they call it was is will be to atari whatever turbine would like to wish for.i dont believe atari did anything wrong in the past .the problem its been what 2 years 3 since the launch of this game and now turbine would like to have a superbol publicity on the back of atari .i agre with atari ,turbine is lucky to still have the right for the game if i was atari i would pull the plug from turbine for ddo ,atari asnt done one ddo game they made a lot of ddo game in the past .if turbine push atari to the corner
they wont like the reaction from atari not one bit and turbine as more to loose then atari in this
You have no idea what you are talking about. In fact. That is not even humanly comprehensible.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Yeah. So if anyone really wants to see _real_ D&D in any MMO, support Turbine all the time. We can say it's not 100% D&D 3.5 ruleset, but I'm still amazed seeing their dedication to make it a real D&D game. That alone make this game too hard for average WoW player. So they've limited their income to make it D&D in feel and in it's core - the rules.
Other than that, please guys, try this game at 9th of September (or 1st if you played recent beta / had a paid sub in the past). Then come here and say it's horrible. 3 years ago this game was so different and tiny, that there's no point in judging present game by that...
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mm your probably right papa d&d ruleset is probably not easy to fully implement in a mmo ,its a shame because d&d ruleset
have been going on for for a long while ,the problem i see here is the same problem microsoft face
i remember when ibm was the king of sofware with dos etc then a noob come out of ibm stable and develop windows men we could see color it wasnt easy now everybody is sueing microsoft for various bogus reason ,
how come those company pushing to sue microsoft dont do a new software instead of cripling microsoft
they cant ! and in their head its the fault of microsoft ya right ,did you see ibm whine and sue microsoft like that then .i dont believe they did
and you know what ibm is still one of the top company of the world ,ibm dont speak a lot but god they act a lot !did you see the new techno that will come out in september ps3 yep good old blue processor not from new kid on the block intel ,no ser its a 45 nm sized processor they ll make so much of them even toshiba is in the bandwagon
so when i see proffessionnal suer ,i just think those guys are there to cripple various company in the world .
this wont help turbine and sure wont help atari either once all is said and done in court player will just move away from both game made by those company just in case player get splashed by bad rep(men its a shame )
The dungeons are very good. I don’t think I have played a mmo with this level of detail dungeon wise (traps, puzzles, scripted events); also every class brings something useful to the table. I know everyone hates instancing but I don’t see how you could make a game like this work without it.
Just to add I really like the 4th edition rule set.
Everyone hates Atari. Which just FYI is not Atari at all - its a company that bought the legendary name Atari.
They screwed every D&D product since they accuired the licence. They are the reason Bioware refuses to make any D&D game anymore.
But WOTC is stubborn in not extending the licence to nobody but Atari.
I must say I gasped when i saw Cryptic sign deal with them...but it must be the Bill Roper curse.
Its sad Turbine, which is probably the best MMO developer right now ( probably better even than Blizzard) have to put up with this crap. Especially now when DDO is so close to be released.
As for new D&D MMO. Sure I would love to see it. But it depends who will make it.
Also 4ed D&D is perfect for MMO. Actually its a rip off of MMO rules - so its only fitting its converted back into MMO
Guys, read more details from Massively.com:
www.massively.com/2009/08/26/breaking-turbine-sues-atari-over-dungeons-and-dragons-online/#continued
Breaking: Turbine sues Atari over Dungeons & Dragons Online:
"Turbine has filed a lawsuit against publishing partner Atari in New York courts for a breach of licensing agreement all centered around Dungeons and Dragons Online. The two companies are locked in a legal battle regarding accusations including failing contractual obligations and wrongful termination of agreements.
The court documents filed on Monday paint the picture of a long chain of grievances against Atari made by Turbine, starting with lackluster support all the way back when Dungeons and Dragons Online: Stormreach launched in 2006. Turbine asserts that Atari has failed to maintain their obligations as the publisher of the game while still holding onto the licensing for Dungeons and Dragons. These obligations mostly include the marketing aspects of the game, such as commercials, advertising, retail box creation, retail promotion, and cross-promotion with other Atari products. (Fans of the game will remember the very lackluster marketing campaign at the game's launch, especially when compared with Champions Online's marketing, another Atari-backed game.) Because of these failures, Turbine has had to step in and become the publisher of the game in North America, costing the company millions of dollars.
The lawsuit goes on further to describe a plot made by Atari to wrongfully terminate the licensing agreement and shake down Turbine for more money, even while the agreement was being updated to support the game's transition to the free to play model and Turbine was offering Atari a good faith payment of thousands of dollars future royalties. The documents suggest that Atari's motivation for letting this agreement update go through was to take Turbine's good faith payment before severing the agreement completely, shutting out Turbine while simultaneously paving the road for Atari's competing product (which we can only assume is Cryptic Studio's Champions Online.)
Atari hasn't been content to stay silent on this whole matter, stating to Courthouse News that Turbine over invested in Dungeons and Dragons Online to demand more consideration from Atari than called for by the agreement in question. The company also goes on to say that Turbine's lawsuit is threatening the goodwill that Turbine has developed with current and future players who expect to play DDO: Unlimited.
From all of this lawsuit, Turbine is seeking 30 million dollars worth of damages from Atari -- constituting recovered losses from Atari's breaches of contract.
What still seems to be up in the air regarding this whole case is what would happen to Dungeons and Dragons Online should this licensing agreement be terminated. The full rights to the game are between Turbine, Hasbro, Wizards of the Coast, and Atari, however it is Atari who has granted the sublicense for the game to Turbine. Should this agreement completely fall through, will Turbine still have control of the game?
When asked to comment on the case, Turbine released the following statement to Massively: "As a legal matter we can't comment on the particulars of the case. We have recently extended our rights to develop and operate DDO Unlimited until 2016 and are looking forward to our launch next week."
That's what we, players, knew all the time. So it's finally the time of judgement. If DDO was advertised all those years, just imagine the speed of development and how big their DDO team could be. Think about it - most people never tried D&D Online during those 3 years! Most MMO players never seen any DDO banner ever or anything ever - there were only interviews with developers, that was all Turbine could do.
I don't care that Atari didn't have enough money, or if they had financial trouble. They were obliged to publish and advertise, so now it's time to pay for their failure.
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If Turbine did it, I'm all for that! And if they win, it's really possible. Just wait 2 years of income from DDO, and they can release DDO 2. Heck, I'm sure they'd develop an open world for it and mix it with their unmatched instanced content.
But is there any other developer we could trust to do it good enough? I don't think so. Certainly not Blizzard nor Funcom, NCSoft, etc.
Yes, D&D 4e is good for DDO 2. Just for the sake of it all, leave this license for Turbine and they will handle it, WotC!
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Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
I agree. Turbine hasn't done anything good since AC1. But I still hope they take a bite out of Atari.
Huh?? WTH are you even trying to say? Talk about not having the slightest clue as to what you are writing about.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari?
Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Although I doubt it will happen, I pray that Atari eye-gouges Turbine and gets control of D&D online properties back from them.
That way, maybe I can still see a competent, dynamic, and diverse online D&D MMO before I die.
As long as Turbine has control, it languishes in severe mediocrity.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
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The only thing which speaks from your post, is that it your opinion and game knowlegde of DDO doesn't even match severe mediocrity...
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Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Hey! Don't label me dude!
Yes, if you're familiar with the Forgottem Realms, he is the drow, made famous by R.A. Salvatore.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
To be fair, Bioware hasn't launched a successful MMO yet.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
Eh Bioware have not released any MMOs yet.
And btw, Atari is the reason why Bioware isnt doing D&D games anymore...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd