So because you personally dont like the games Turbine made you think they deserve to be screwed over by Atari? Dont mind that there are thousands of Toliken fans who love LotrO and thousands of D&D fans who love DDO and that Turbine is considered one of the top studios in the industry and constantly win rewards for it.
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
To be fair, Bioware hasn't launched a successful MMO yet.
True, but I was going off of past performance in thier other games . It will be interesting to see how this Turbine/Atari stuff works out. I'd hope that Turbine does not get screwed again like Microsoft did them with AC2.
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
You play Perfect World. You have lost the right to an opinion any of us will ever take seriously. Now crawl back to your crapfest asian grinder and let us big boys talk DDO. That is all.
Originally posted by Korgana To be fair, Bioware hasn't launched a successful MMO yet.
True, but I was going off of past performance in thier other games . It will be interesting to see how this Turbine/Atari stuff works out. I'd hope that Turbine does not get screwed again like Microsoft did them with AC2.
Yeah. But Turbine isn't that "small company" it was a few years ago. They've hired so many people this and past year, many of them for Marketing and business growth. So I'd expect they've prepared very well and have good support of lawyers as well as investors here.
We've read recently, that Turbine's CEO, Jim Crowley, said that Turbine is in the process of buying out their licenses for all their game worldwide. So probably it didn't go smooth - as it is Atari who hold the rights for Europe.
But with those recent (and not so recent too) news of multi million $ investments in Turbine, I bet they have the strongest support possible. If Turbine succeeds and retakes whole D&D IP for MMO games, they could do anything. DDO2, open worlds, console D&D MMOs, everything.
I bet they were never allowed to create a new D&D MMO, so they chose to revamp what they've done to date, and be pioneers of AAA F2P MMOs.
I like both DDO and LOTRO...but do you think Turbine planned for all this in order to sue Atari and incorporate full DnD mmo rights into the settlement?... I mean..perhaps they realized Atari was not in the position to go whole hog into advertising..so they set up an agreement for the F2P and extension on the license..knowing Atari would default on their end...so to speak?. Kind of like what the banks financiers did with housing loans to low income families.
Although I doubt it will happen, I pray that Atari eye-gouges Turbine and gets control of D&D online properties back from them. That way, maybe I can still see a competent, dynamic, and diverse online D&D MMO before I die. As long as Turbine has control, it languishes in severe mediocrity.
The only thing which speaks from your post, is that it your opinion and game knowlegde of DDO doesn't even match severe mediocrity...
Now, how would you know anything about my knowledge of DDO, Sarr?
Let's see;
- I've been alive almost twice as long as you have, and have been playing RPGs, primarily D&D, for about fifteen years before you could even read.
- Ten years before you even had a credit card (or most likely a computer of your own), I was already playing Everquest and had beta tested Asheron's Call. I subscribed to Asheron's Call for six years total. If you have ever played Asheron's Call, you could not help but be disappointed by DDO.
- I beta tested DDO. Did you? Even then, it was apparent that DDO was little more than an engine test for LOTRO. It was creatively dry and claustrophobic, and remains so to this day.
- Is my opinion "mediocre"? Perhaps. Then again, we hardly have to rely on my opinion, do we? Millions of gamers have voted with their wallets. So apparently, DDO is either mediocre or worse. Maybe you would prefer I used the word "competent"?
Yes, Turbine made a functional MMO that was based (loosely in many cases) on D&D. So in that respect, they were competent.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
I have nothing against Turbine; I keep wishing that they would do something truly remarkable along the lines of Asheron's Call.
DDO simply isn't it, and I would like to see someone else get the opportunity to really bring the world of D&D to life.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back.
If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought.
You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
Originally posted by Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress. I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Ironic that a narrowly minded post, one which hints at fiction rather then fact, can claim their opinion is the only valid one.
DDO, choppy?
My advice is to get a job, save some money and build a reasonable gaming PC. You can get one that runs DDO very nicely for no more then $500 including keyboard, mouse and monitor. If its choppy, its you.
I run the game in DirectX10 in 1680x1050 and it looks wonderful!
The game play of Dungeons & Dragons Online really is more advanced then the majority of MMO's on the market. Is that advanced form of play part of the downfall? possibly, but when you look at the success EVE Online's been experiancing, which is even more complex, it gives enough reason to suggest that stupid people aren't the only ones playing these games.
Can anyone reading this thread please do all of us DDO supporters a favor? Send us a pm, or post in the thread, other Games which have dynamic character builds which span beyond a single class and allow players to actively, in real time, dodge incoming attacks, roll out of the way of a Fireball flaying towards you, disarm traps or carfeully jump over them if you can't while using the game environment as part of the strategic application of the gameplay. There's one problem, DDO is ahead of the curve when it comes to dynamic MMO's.
Granted, the role-play in DDO is not great. The emotes are very weak, but that's it. Just because you can't simulate drow on drow love through the use of emotes does not make the game poor. ok - that's just an opinion.
p.s. please recomend other games if you think you know something which has greater dynamics and a more active playstyle in a game that's based on real time strategy. please!
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
You play Perfect World. You have lost the right to an opinion any of us will ever take seriously. Now crawl back to your crapfest asian grinder and let us big boys talk DDO. That is all.
I am fairly certain I do not play Perfect World. I can see how maybe one question in one thread because I was curious about the game might indicate to someone desperate to prove me wrong without actually doing anything that I do. If I did play Perfect World, do you not think I would know the answer to the question that I asked?
No, indeed, I am actually quite interested in why I upset or annoyed you enough for you to look at my recent post history to find something that you could say to invalidate my thoughts. Those thoughts are my opinions, and yes, they are very strong. But then, they are based in my experience in both games.
But no, I do not play Perfect World, and from looking at it, I doubt I will. You have jumped the gun and assumed something with no evidence at all. As such, you have lost the right to an opinion I will ever take seriously. In fact, I consider you vile for even trying such a thing.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
ATARI is low. Look into what they have done time and again and I cannot believe anyone does business with them. I mean look at the Champions Online lifetime/6 month subscription deal debacle. Cryptic is taking all the slack on this one when ATARI is primarily to blame. They are the ones that also handled that game's preorder deals.
In the past ATARI has kept this shady tripe relegated to low profile projects, but it even spilled over into the popular UNREAL TOURNAMENT series in the late 90's and the "Do something UNREAL" contest prize stuff. They really are a sour bunch over there. I mean, what happened to them?
Anyways I really like DDO, but it feels so restricted for some reason. Also there isn't enough content. Repeating quests over and over is far from enjoyable. There is a lot of that (I mean bucketloads) repeat stuff. I mean was DDO even doing OK prior to this? Not really. LotRO is Turbine's real cash cow I think. (I could be wrong there.) Still DDO seemed so second fiddle it isn't even funny. I would almost like to see another more respectfully done version of D&D as an MMO using the 4.0 rules set, but I doubt it will be much more playable unless they don't go the route of DDO and make you repeat the crap out of things. I would love a random level based quest system along with the main story stuff. THAT would be great.
I just don't know with this one. I don't feel obliged to "side" with either party really. I despise ATARI for what they have steadily become and I don't really know enough about Turbine other than they made a grindfest of a D&D game and a decent (if not down right fun) LotR MMO. I just don't know. heh.
ATARI is low. Look into what they have done time and again and I cannot believe anyone does business with them. I mean look at the Champions Online lifetime/6 month subscription deal debacle. Cryptic is taking all the slack on this one when ATARI is primarily to blame. They are the ones that also handled that game's preorder deals. In the past ATARI has kept this shady tripe relegated to low profile projects, but it even spilled over into the popular UNREAL TOURNAMENT series in the late 90's and the "Do something UNREAL" contest prize stuff. They really are a sour bunch over there. I mean, what happened to them? Anyways I really like DDO, but it feels so restricted for some reason. Also there isn't enough content. Repeating quests over and over is far from enjoyable. There is a lot of that (I mean bucketloads) repeat stuff. I mean was DDO even doing OK prior to this? Not really. LotRO is Turbine's real cash cow I think. (I could be wrong there.) Still DDO seemed so second fiddle it isn't even funny. I would almost like to see another more respectfully done version of D&D as an MMO using the 4.0 rules set, but I doubt it will be much more playable unless they don't go the route of DDO and make you repeat the crap out of things. I would love a random level based quest system along with the main story stuff. THAT would be great. I just don't know with this one. I don't feel obliged to "side" with either party really. I despise ATARI for what they have steadily become and I don't really know enough about Turbine other than they made a grindfest of a D&D game and a decent (if not down right fun) LotR MMO. I just don't know. heh.
But man, this game is just having a relaunch! There's going to be much faster and better development. They start to experiment and multi-ended quests (non linear, like in true RPGs) and new quest already have some new options in them. Also, they say that user created content is a thing they want in DDO, just not done yet.
If only Atari won't screw them over too much (preferably, they will lose this case), Turbine has the potential to make this game very popular. It even was very popular and nicely populated during this last beta.
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back. If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress. I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds. Edit: Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow? Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought.
You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board. It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO. All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
All I can say is that my opinions run deep on this matter. I find Turbine's games to be horrible, and the engine itself is a large part of this. The animations are the biggest problem. Note that I do play all of my games at max settings, and these particular with DX10. The textures and shadows and general landscape and environment surpasses nearly all over games, let alone MMOs. It is the character models and animations. It just has such a stark contrast in quality, that alone might make me unable to play.
In addition to that, the bastardisation of mood and lore upsets me a great deal. I do not see how this is more clueless than your posts. We both are asserting our opinions with no citations. We are both entitled to them. And I am entitled to think you wrong and not very clever. That is what a public forum is all about.
As for your comment about Everquest, I am fairly sure the point was that EQ did not have systems terribly similar to D&D. Neither does DDO. Just using the same words to describe something does not mean it functions in the same way. I have played tabletop for years, and that is a large reason that DDO is so offensive to me.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I find it very interesting to note the series of events that led to this occurence.
I don't actually buy Turbine's stance in this matter. Turbine developed a poor game and then continued to perpetuate this poor game with equally poor content development. At the time, Atari marketed and funded the title to the best of their ability considering the financial problems they were finding themselves in. Atari have NEVER taken a D+D derivative and not marketed the shit out of it and DDO was no difference. DDOs failings came in the fact that Turbine developed a shit, PvE game that offered none of the elements that made D+D games popular. The fault is with Turbine ultimately.
However, note that Turbine left this a while. Dwindling subscriber numbers for DDO and LotRo mean that Turbine are probably having a hard time securing large sums of money via investment right now. I know they have just picked up a substantial amount of cash but it certainly isn't enough to keep LotRo and DDO running, as well as look forward to their next MMO and the continued development of their "brilliant" (yet totally fucking bollocks) engine. They've switched DDO to an F2P model and - after it received really, really bad reactions from beta players - they pushed back the release because they are now certain that it isn't going to save the game anyhow. This is simply a money saving option. They are hoping that this court case will line their coffers enough to carry the losses they will suffer over the coming year when DDO goes with a bit of integrity.
Sadly however, the only thing they will achieve is... a slight dent perhaps? It's pretty common knowledge that Atari purchased Cryptic with the hope of working on and delivering a new D+D MMO. I sincerely believe that the court should take witness from people who are in a position to offered balanced criticisms of the game, from release and through until now. That way, Turbine can whine all they want about Atari ditching the shit pile that is DDO. The court will simply find them in contempt of gamers and throw the case out. However, that is a dream. It's more than likely that Atari will have to pay damages to Turbine. Then, Turbine will be dismayed when Cryptic release their D+D MMO that - whilst not anything special - will be better than DDO.
Turbine are a bunch of arrogant, big headed gits frankly. They seem to have this weird opinion that they are the best MMO developer out there. They aren't. Far from it in fact.
I just don't know with this one. I don't feel obliged to "side" with either party really. I despise ATARI for what they have steadily become and I don't really know enough about Turbine other than they made a grindfest of a D&D game and a decent (if not down right fun) LotR MMO. I just don't know. heh.
That's interesting, I think Lord of the Rings Online is terrible. Seriosuly, I cannot stand it. I simply do not get the static combat systems that people claim are so much fun. They're bad and they make people even dumber. there's a point where we stop using our fingers to paint and start using brushes - games like eq, wow, lotro, are like Finger Painting By Numbers.
for the record - I hated DDO when it first launched and didn't play beyond the free month. Returning a little over a year later I was absolteuy impressed by the advancements made which caused the game to become what I would consider an all time great MMO. In the same category I would also place pre-cu Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online, both of which had/have incredible open ended dynamics.
DDO is a hack-n-slash rpg with open-ended character building. Every other MMO strives to accomplish this even though they haven't been able to. the primary flaw with DDO was that the early version of Beta didn't properly capture the open area environments that are expected in online games and in the D&D mid-adventure themes. Its come so far since then it makes people who reference that period as being completely out of touch with the current state of the game.
Seems, from day one. Turbine has had to do just about everything to bring DnD online to life. With Arti constiantly stabbing them in the back.
If anything, this reinforces that Turbine is an increadable devloper, Arti failed time and time again on every single thing they were contracted to do, and Turbine picked up the ball time and time again and carried on and would just eat the loss in time, money, and manpower.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought.
You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
Hmmmm....
Have you ever rested (camped) anywhere you wanted to or needed to in a campaign to recover health in tabletop D&D? Hint: The answer is yes, unless you have never played D&D.
Can you in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO.
Can you in EQ? Hint: the answer is YES.
I have crafted items in tabletop D&D. There is an actual crafting system in tabletop D&D.
Can you craft in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. (please don't even mention upgrading, green steel items, etc. That isn't crafting, i.e. collecting raw resources and creating something new from them.)
Can you craft in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
Have you ever had a random encounter in tabletop D&D?
Can you have them in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. (again, please don't mention anything that occurs in an instance. Those aren't random encounters.)
Can you have them in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
Have you ever selected a diety in tabletop D&D?
Can you have them in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO.
Can you have them in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
I could go on, but anyone who has played both tabletop D&D and EQ knows that their systems are very closely related. It makes sense that they should be, as D&D (and several D&D inspired MUDs) was the inspiration for Everquest.
When you seek to bring a well-known and beloved tabletop rpg (like D&D) with a robust rule set and an expansive, existing game world to a massive multiplayer platform, you are, by default, accepting the fact that this design will require MORE of the developer than your average MMO.
As the developer, you may choose to do less; but that "less" will result in disappointment, poor sales and little success.
Turbine chose to do less. It's that simple, and sad, because they did FAR MORE with Asheron's Call.
I would like to see a new developer get the chance to do more, starting with an open game world.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
I find it very interesting to note the series of events that led to this occurence. I don't actually buy Turbine's stance in this matter. Turbine developed a poor game and then continued to perpetuate this poor game with equally poor content development. At the time, Atari marketed and funded the title to the best of their ability considering the financial problems they were finding themselves in. Atari have NEVER taken a D+D derivative and not marketed the shit out of it and DDO was no difference. DDOs failings came in the fact that Turbine developed a shit, PvE game that offered none of the elements that made D+D games popular. The fault is with Turbine ultimately. However, note that Turbine left this a while. Dwindling subscriber numbers for DDO and LotRo mean that Turbine are probably having a hard time securing large sums of money via investment right now. I know they have just picked up a substantial amount of cash but it certainly isn't enough to keep LotRo and DDO running, as well as look forward to their next MMO and the continued development of their "brilliant" (yet totally fucking bollocks) engine. They've switched DDO to an F2P model and - after it received really, really bad reactions from beta players - they pushed back the release because they are now certain that it isn't going to save the game anyhow. This is simply a money saving option. They are hoping that this court case will line their coffers enough to carry the losses they will suffer over the coming year when DDO goes with a bit of integrity. Sadly however, the only thing they will achieve is... a slight dent perhaps? It's pretty common knowledge that Atari purchased Cryptic with the hope of working on and delivering a new D+D MMO. I sincerely believe that the court should take witness from people who are in a position to offered balanced criticisms of the game, from release and through until now. That way, Turbine can whine all they want about Atari ditching the shit pile that is DDO. The court will simply find them in contempt of gamers and throw the case out. However, that is a dream. It's more than likely that Atari will have to pay damages to Turbine. Then, Turbine will be dismayed when Cryptic release their D+D MMO that - whilst not anything special - will be better than DDO. Turbine are a bunch of arrogant, big headed gits frankly. They seem to have this weird opinion that they are the best MMO developer out there. They aren't. Far from it in fact.
You're compiling a bunch of gossip and call it common knowlegde. I think you have the same "knowlegde" about D&D Online, if we talk about what it is now and not what it once was, at the launch.
When did you play DDO for the last time? Have you played it at all? From your posts, one can be almost sure you haven't. Just follow old gossip.
PS: So you say this is complete failure? Check solo vid from last beta:
Originally posted by Infalible I find it very interesting to note the series of events that led to this occurence. I don't actually buy Turbine's stance in this matter. Turbine developed a poor game and then continued to perpetuate this poor game with equally poor content development. At the time, Atari marketed and funded the title to the best of their ability considering the financial problems they were finding themselves in. Atari have NEVER taken a D+D derivative and not marketed the shit out of it and DDO was no difference. DDOs failings came in the fact that Turbine developed a shit, PvE game that offered none of the elements that made D+D games popular. The fault is with Turbine ultimately. However, note that Turbine left this a while. Dwindling subscriber numbers for DDO and LotRo mean that Turbine are probably having a hard time securing large sums of money via investment right now. I know they have just picked up a substantial amount of cash but it certainly isn't enough to keep LotRo and DDO running, as well as look forward to their next MMO and the continued development of their "brilliant" (yet totally fucking bollocks) engine. They've switched DDO to an F2P model and - after it received really, really bad reactions from beta players - they pushed back the release because they are now certain that it isn't going to save the game anyhow. This is simply a money saving option. They are hoping that this court case will line their coffers enough to carry the losses they will suffer over the coming year when DDO goes with a bit of integrity. Sadly however, the only thing they will achieve is... a slight dent perhaps? It's pretty common knowledge that Atari purchased Cryptic with the hope of working on and delivering a new D+D MMO. I sincerely believe that the court should take witness from people who are in a position to offered balanced criticisms of the game, from release and through until now. That way, Turbine can whine all they want about Atari ditching the shit pile that is DDO. The court will simply find them in contempt of gamers and throw the case out. However, that is a dream. It's more than likely that Atari will have to pay damages to Turbine. Then, Turbine will be dismayed when Cryptic release their D+D MMO that - whilst not anything special - will be better than DDO. Turbine are a bunch of arrogant, big headed gits frankly. They seem to have this weird opinion that they are the best MMO developer out there. They aren't. Far from it in fact.
I just love this; thank you. I am glad someone else agrees that the Turbine engine is complete bollocks. Atari probably DID plan this from a while back, but they should have. They have every reason to want to take the rights from Turbine. Turbine created a complete shit version of their IP.
Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.
Edit:
Sarr: Yes, that is what I would call failure. Look at the UI. Look at the action bars in particular. Look at the way the character moves. Look at the combat animations in particular. Look at the way his feet seem disconnected from the ground. Look at the way he moves across the ground in unnatural ways. They have added more terrible content, yes, but the game itself is the same as it ever was. The engine functions the same, and it still runs poorly and makes the characters look terrible. And do not forget the hideous UI. At least LOTRO has a pretty UI to go with their terrible models and animations and gameplay.
Side note: LOTRO Minstrels can kill monsters with music. On that basis alone the game loses and makes a mockery of the magnificent world created by Tolkien.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I just love this; thank you. I am glad someone else agrees that the Turbine engine is complete bollocks. Atari probably DID plan this from a while back, but they should have. They have every reason to want to take the rights from Turbine. Turbine created a complete shit version of their IP. Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.
You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO?
I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes.
EDIT:
To the post above. WHAT? You really haven't played in beta, am I right? Half of what you wrote just isn't true. No connection with surface? Man, DDO has it done the best you can find anywhere.
So I think you just see what you want in this vid of not-so-great quality . Hmm, all your points aren't accurate. But there's no point in arguing over a video too! That's ridiculous! Just download the game for free and see. I'm 100% confident here, so just see for youself - no bullshit, you're wrong.
Originally posted by Sarr Originally posted by Dubhlaith I just love this; thank you. I am glad someone else agrees that the Turbine engine is complete bollocks. Atari probably DID plan this from a while back, but they should have. They have every reason to want to take the rights from Turbine. Turbine created a complete shit version of their IP. Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.
You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO? I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes.
Of course I like people to agree with me. I take it you do not like that? Most advanced is kind of a joke. Spellborn comes to mind with dodging and blocking, just offhand. GW has collision as well. Their graphics are beautiful. But art is a matter of taste. The quality of the engine is less so. DX10 graphics and quality art does not an engine or a game make.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Too little info to take sides on the legal matter on who's right or not, and companies lie so much (they call it PR) that even with a lot of info I'd probably not take sides.
Suffice to say I support any resolution that lets a high quality D&D MMORPG get made that actually reflects D&D and high quality MMORPG's.
Wait, what?! Turbine is suing Atari? Because Atari didn't live up to it's end? In what universe? Atari tried hard to promote the general bucket of slop that is DDO, even when they were having money problems of their own. There is only so much you can do. This is just Turbine desperate for capital because they realized that the F2P DDO:EU isn't going to get them any more money than the P2P version. Which all by itself should tell you how naive or ignorant the business minds are over there. Do we have any word of a counter filing?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Wait, what?! Turbine is suing Atari? Because Atari didn't live up to it's end? In what universe? Atari tried hard to promote the general bucket of slop that is DDO, even when they were having money problems of their own. There is only so much you can do. This is just Turbine desperate for capital because they realized that the F2P DDO:EU isn't going to get them any more money than the P2P version. Which all by itself should tell you how naive or ignorant the business minds are over there. Do we have any word of a counter filing?
I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic.
And actual screenshots I made in the game. Many still from older version, which had worse graphics, without DX10. Most were taken by me, plus there's one map of continent from books:
If those look bad to you, then it's a matter of taste.
Originally posted by TheStarheart Originally posted by Leodious Wait, what?! Turbine is suing Atari? Because Atari didn't live up to it's end? In what universe? Atari tried hard to promote the general bucket of slop that is DDO, even when they were having money problems of their own. There is only so much you can do. This is just Turbine desperate for capital because they realized that the F2P DDO:EU isn't going to get them any more money than the P2P version. Which all by itself should tell you how naive or ignorant the business minds are over there. Do we have any word of a counter filing?
I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic.
Oh, wow. That's low. I don't have much love for Turbine or their games, but Atari...really? They should at least pretend to try and help Turbine out. I think the theory that this is a plan on Atari's part to back out and give the rights to someone else. I would like that, personally, but this is not the way to go about it. I think I was a bit hasty here based on my general dislike of Turbine. I think Turbine will be able to secure that 30 mil, based on the facts as we know them.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Wait, what?! Turbine is suing Atari? Because Atari didn't live up to it's end? In what universe? Atari tried hard to promote the general bucket of slop that is DDO, even when they were having money problems of their own. There is only so much you can do. This is just Turbine desperate for capital because they realized that the F2P DDO:EU isn't going to get them any more money than the P2P version. Which all by itself should tell you how naive or ignorant the business minds are over there. Do we have any word of a counter filing?
I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic.
Oh, wow. That's low. I don't have much love for Turbine or their games, but Atari...really? They should at least pretend to try and help Turbine out. I think the theory that this is a plan on Atari's part to back out and give the rights to someone else. I would like that, personally, but this is not the way to go about it. I think I was a bit hasty here based on my general dislike of Turbine. I think Turbine will be able to secure that 30 mil, based on the facts as we know them.
I'm not very much a fan of Turbine at all, but I'm actually interested in what they've done with DDO. All of those things aside, I would still be very upset with Atari for such a backhanded move. It really makes me wonder who's behind all of the Cryptic marketing fiasco's. It's probably Atari's fault.
I want to like the name Atari for my fond memories of the early 80's with my 2600. As I understand, this company is not that original builder of fun. Its been passed around and restarted a few times with different butt heads dragging its name in the dirt. Turbine might not have launched DDO in great shape 3 years ago but they seem to be working very hard to turn it around from that humble start. Atari needs to buck up and work with Turbine for both of thier benefits or help Turbine find another distributor. Either lead or get the hell out of the way.
Comments
Yeah, people tend to be so closed minded and foolish.
Turbine is one of the leaders in MMO industry now. This is official by press. But maybe it's not visible enough to those who play other games and don't care about any other, uless it's shiny, PRed to the extreme and overrated.
Not to say all games of competitors are like that, but just look deeper and everyone will see that Turbine is slowly but steadily taking position at the absolute top.
Once Blizzard falls down from their highs with WoW (which already happens since Activision's merge), there should be few smaller giants which will struggle to retain their positions and compete with each other. Turbine will surely be one of them.
Looking at "being succesful", Turbine is a very succesful company. Only Blizzard and NCSoft do better probably (for western market).
You forgot Bioware.
To be fair, Bioware hasn't launched a successful MMO yet.
True, but I was going off of past performance in thier other games
. It will be interesting to see how this Turbine/Atari stuff works out. I'd hope that Turbine does not get screwed again like Microsoft did them with AC2.
You play Perfect World. You have lost the right to an opinion any of us will ever take seriously. Now crawl back to your crapfest asian grinder and let us big boys talk DDO. That is all.
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True, but I was going off of past performance in thier other games
. It will be interesting to see how this Turbine/Atari stuff works out. I'd hope that Turbine does not get screwed again like Microsoft did them with AC2.
Yeah. But Turbine isn't that "small company" it was a few years ago. They've hired so many people this and past year, many of them for Marketing and business growth. So I'd expect they've prepared very well and have good support of lawyers as well as investors here.
We've read recently, that Turbine's CEO, Jim Crowley, said that Turbine is in the process of buying out their licenses for all their game worldwide. So probably it didn't go smooth - as it is Atari who hold the rights for Europe.
But with those recent (and not so recent too) news of multi million $ investments in Turbine, I bet they have the strongest support possible. If Turbine succeeds and retakes whole D&D IP for MMO games, they could do anything. DDO2, open worlds, console D&D MMOs, everything.
I bet they were never allowed to create a new D&D MMO, so they chose to revamp what they've done to date, and be pioneers of AAA F2P MMOs.
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I like both DDO and LOTRO...but do you think Turbine planned for all this in order to sue Atari and incorporate full DnD mmo rights into the settlement?... I mean..perhaps they realized Atari was not in the position to go whole hog into advertising..so they set up an agreement for the F2P and extension on the license..knowing Atari would default on their end...so to speak?. Kind of like what the banks financiers did with housing loans to low income families.
The only thing which speaks from your post, is that it your opinion and game knowlegde of DDO doesn't even match severe mediocrity...
Now, how would you know anything about my knowledge of DDO, Sarr?
Let's see;
- I've been alive almost twice as long as you have, and have been playing RPGs, primarily D&D, for about fifteen years before you could even read.
- Ten years before you even had a credit card (or most likely a computer of your own), I was already playing Everquest and had beta tested Asheron's Call. I subscribed to Asheron's Call for six years total. If you have ever played Asheron's Call, you could not help but be disappointed by DDO.
- I beta tested DDO. Did you? Even then, it was apparent that DDO was little more than an engine test for LOTRO. It was creatively dry and claustrophobic, and remains so to this day.
- Is my opinion "mediocre"? Perhaps. Then again, we hardly have to rely on my opinion, do we? Millions of gamers have voted with their wallets. So apparently, DDO is either mediocre or worse. Maybe you would prefer I used the word "competent"?
Yes, Turbine made a functional MMO that was based (loosely in many cases) on D&D. So in that respect, they were competent.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
I have nothing against Turbine; I keep wishing that they would do something truly remarkable along the lines of Asheron's Call.
DDO simply isn't it, and I would like to see someone else get the opportunity to really bring the world of D&D to life.
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----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
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Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
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Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought.
You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
Ironic that a narrowly minded post, one which hints at fiction rather then fact, can claim their opinion is the only valid one.
DDO, choppy?
My advice is to get a job, save some money and build a reasonable gaming PC. You can get one that runs DDO very nicely for no more then $500 including keyboard, mouse and monitor. If its choppy, its you.
I run the game in DirectX10 in 1680x1050 and it looks wonderful!
The game play of Dungeons & Dragons Online really is more advanced then the majority of MMO's on the market. Is that advanced form of play part of the downfall? possibly, but when you look at the success EVE Online's been experiancing, which is even more complex, it gives enough reason to suggest that stupid people aren't the only ones playing these games.
Can anyone reading this thread please do all of us DDO supporters a favor? Send us a pm, or post in the thread, other Games which have dynamic character builds which span beyond a single class and allow players to actively, in real time, dodge incoming attacks, roll out of the way of a Fireball flaying towards you, disarm traps or carfeully jump over them if you can't while using the game environment as part of the strategic application of the gameplay. There's one problem, DDO is ahead of the curve when it comes to dynamic MMO's.
Granted, the role-play in DDO is not great. The emotes are very weak, but that's it. Just because you can't simulate drow on drow love through the use of emotes does not make the game poor. ok - that's just an opinion.
p.s. please recomend other games if you think you know something which has greater dynamics and a more active playstyle in a game that's based on real time strategy. please!
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
You play Perfect World. You have lost the right to an opinion any of us will ever take seriously. Now crawl back to your crapfest asian grinder and let us big boys talk DDO. That is all.
I am fairly certain I do not play Perfect World. I can see how maybe one question in one thread because I was curious about the game might indicate to someone desperate to prove me wrong without actually doing anything that I do. If I did play Perfect World, do you not think I would know the answer to the question that I asked?
No, indeed, I am actually quite interested in why I upset or annoyed you enough for you to look at my recent post history to find something that you could say to invalidate my thoughts. Those thoughts are my opinions, and yes, they are very strong. But then, they are based in my experience in both games.
But no, I do not play Perfect World, and from looking at it, I doubt I will. You have jumped the gun and assumed something with no evidence at all. As such, you have lost the right to an opinion I will ever take seriously. In fact, I consider you vile for even trying such a thing.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
ATARI is low. Look into what they have done time and again and I cannot believe anyone does business with them. I mean look at the Champions Online lifetime/6 month subscription deal debacle. Cryptic is taking all the slack on this one when ATARI is primarily to blame. They are the ones that also handled that game's preorder deals.
In the past ATARI has kept this shady tripe relegated to low profile projects, but it even spilled over into the popular UNREAL TOURNAMENT series in the late 90's and the "Do something UNREAL" contest prize stuff. They really are a sour bunch over there. I mean, what happened to them?
Anyways I really like DDO, but it feels so restricted for some reason. Also there isn't enough content. Repeating quests over and over is far from enjoyable. There is a lot of that (I mean bucketloads) repeat stuff. I mean was DDO even doing OK prior to this? Not really. LotRO is Turbine's real cash cow I think. (I could be wrong there.) Still DDO seemed so second fiddle it isn't even funny. I would almost like to see another more respectfully done version of D&D as an MMO using the 4.0 rules set, but I doubt it will be much more playable unless they don't go the route of DDO and make you repeat the crap out of things. I would love a random level based quest system along with the main story stuff. THAT would be great.
I just don't know with this one. I don't feel obliged to "side" with either party really. I despise ATARI for what they have steadily become and I don't really know enough about Turbine other than they made a grindfest of a D&D game and a decent (if not down right fun) LotR MMO. I just don't know. heh.
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But man, this game is just having a relaunch! There's going to be much faster and better development. They start to experiment and multi-ended quests (non linear, like in true RPGs) and new quest already have some new options in them. Also, they say that user created content is a thing they want in DDO, just not done yet.
If only Atari won't screw them over too much (preferably, they will lose this case), Turbine has the potential to make this game very popular. It even was very popular and nicely populated during this last beta.
Have you tried this new version yet?
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Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought.
You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
All I can say is that my opinions run deep on this matter. I find Turbine's games to be horrible, and the engine itself is a large part of this. The animations are the biggest problem. Note that I do play all of my games at max settings, and these particular with DX10. The textures and shadows and general landscape and environment surpasses nearly all over games, let alone MMOs. It is the character models and animations. It just has such a stark contrast in quality, that alone might make me unable to play.
In addition to that, the bastardisation of mood and lore upsets me a great deal. I do not see how this is more clueless than your posts. We both are asserting our opinions with no citations. We are both entitled to them. And I am entitled to think you wrong and not very clever. That is what a public forum is all about.
As for your comment about Everquest, I am fairly sure the point was that EQ did not have systems terribly similar to D&D. Neither does DDO. Just using the same words to describe something does not mean it functions in the same way. I have played tabletop for years, and that is a large reason that DDO is so offensive to me.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I find it very interesting to note the series of events that led to this occurence.
I don't actually buy Turbine's stance in this matter. Turbine developed a poor game and then continued to perpetuate this poor game with equally poor content development. At the time, Atari marketed and funded the title to the best of their ability considering the financial problems they were finding themselves in. Atari have NEVER taken a D+D derivative and not marketed the shit out of it and DDO was no difference. DDOs failings came in the fact that Turbine developed a shit, PvE game that offered none of the elements that made D+D games popular. The fault is with Turbine ultimately.
However, note that Turbine left this a while. Dwindling subscriber numbers for DDO and LotRo mean that Turbine are probably having a hard time securing large sums of money via investment right now. I know they have just picked up a substantial amount of cash but it certainly isn't enough to keep LotRo and DDO running, as well as look forward to their next MMO and the continued development of their "brilliant" (yet totally fucking bollocks) engine. They've switched DDO to an F2P model and - after it received really, really bad reactions from beta players - they pushed back the release because they are now certain that it isn't going to save the game anyhow. This is simply a money saving option. They are hoping that this court case will line their coffers enough to carry the losses they will suffer over the coming year when DDO goes with a bit of integrity.
Sadly however, the only thing they will achieve is... a slight dent perhaps? It's pretty common knowledge that Atari purchased Cryptic with the hope of working on and delivering a new D+D MMO. I sincerely believe that the court should take witness from people who are in a position to offered balanced criticisms of the game, from release and through until now. That way, Turbine can whine all they want about Atari ditching the shit pile that is DDO. The court will simply find them in contempt of gamers and throw the case out. However, that is a dream. It's more than likely that Atari will have to pay damages to Turbine. Then, Turbine will be dismayed when Cryptic release their D+D MMO that - whilst not anything special - will be better than DDO.
Turbine are a bunch of arrogant, big headed gits frankly. They seem to have this weird opinion that they are the best MMO developer out there. They aren't. Far from it in fact.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
That's interesting, I think Lord of the Rings Online is terrible. Seriosuly, I cannot stand it. I simply do not get the static combat systems that people claim are so much fun. They're bad and they make people even dumber. there's a point where we stop using our fingers to paint and start using brushes - games like eq, wow, lotro, are like Finger Painting By Numbers.
for the record - I hated DDO when it first launched and didn't play beyond the free month. Returning a little over a year later I was absolteuy impressed by the advancements made which caused the game to become what I would consider an all time great MMO. In the same category I would also place pre-cu Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online, both of which had/have incredible open ended dynamics.
DDO is a hack-n-slash rpg with open-ended character building. Every other MMO strives to accomplish this even though they haven't been able to. the primary flaw with DDO was that the early version of Beta didn't properly capture the open area environments that are expected in online games and in the D&D mid-adventure themes. Its come so far since then it makes people who reference that period as being completely out of touch with the current state of the game.
Take your outrageously biased opinions somewhere else, please. Turbine is a terrible developer that somehow got its hands on the two greatest IPs of all time, and built them both in the same horrendous engine that makes everything look choppy and disconnected, ruining any chance at serious RP with decent people. The only people that I have seen in DDO or LOTRO are fanboys like you that have not the ability to look at something objectively. The games are unresponsive, hitchy, poorly run, and entirely unrepresentative of the worlds which they are trying to simulate. I went into both games with rose-coloured lenses on, and both times I was well and truly heartbroken. I am probably the most rabid Tolkien fan I know, and I literally wept when after I played LOTRO. Perhaps that is too much information, or too personal. Nevertheless, I digress.
I hope Turbine gets what is coming to them in a counter suit, and they sink under the waters of bankruptcy, never to be heard from again.
Looking back on this, I seem to have come off as outrageously biased. Perhaps I am. Turbine broke my heart. I hope they pay for their ruination of my favourite fantasy worlds.
Edit:
Khalathwyr, is your avatar Drow?
Probably the most clueless post I have seen this week. The only top tier developers out there are Turbine and Blizzard, everyone else is 2nd tier or lower. While you might not like their games, but their gameplay, graphics and content they are up there with the best. The big problem with DDO, besides the heavy instancing, is that the pvp is an after thought.
You want to spout nonsense, expect to get nailed for it on this board.
It's sad that many of the game mechanics in the original Everquest were closer to tabletop D&D than those in DDO.
All I can say about that quote is that you can't have ever played table top D&D then. Everquest is not even close to D&D ruleset. Turbines big problem with DDO is the D&D ruleset, it just does not lend itself to a online game. Most board game rulesets do not fit well with an online game.
Hmmmm....
Have you ever rested (camped) anywhere you wanted to or needed to in a campaign to recover health in tabletop D&D? Hint: The answer is yes, unless you have never played D&D.
Can you in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO.
Can you in EQ? Hint: the answer is YES.
I have crafted items in tabletop D&D. There is an actual crafting system in tabletop D&D.
Can you craft in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. (please don't even mention upgrading, green steel items, etc. That isn't crafting, i.e. collecting raw resources and creating something new from them.)
Can you craft in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
Have you ever had a random encounter in tabletop D&D?
Can you have them in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO. (again, please don't mention anything that occurs in an instance. Those aren't random encounters.)
Can you have them in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
Have you ever selected a diety in tabletop D&D?
Can you have them in DDO? Hint: The answer is NO.
Can you have them in EQ? Hint: The answer is YES.
I could go on, but anyone who has played both tabletop D&D and EQ knows that their systems are very closely related. It makes sense that they should be, as D&D (and several D&D inspired MUDs) was the inspiration for Everquest.
When you seek to bring a well-known and beloved tabletop rpg (like D&D) with a robust rule set and an expansive, existing game world to a massive multiplayer platform, you are, by default, accepting the fact that this design will require MORE of the developer than your average MMO.
As the developer, you may choose to do less; but that "less" will result in disappointment, poor sales and little success.
Turbine chose to do less. It's that simple, and sad, because they did FAR MORE with Asheron's Call.
I would like to see a new developer get the chance to do more, starting with an open game world.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
You're compiling a bunch of gossip and call it common knowlegde. I think you have the same "knowlegde" about D&D Online, if we talk about what it is now and not what it once was, at the launch.
When did you play DDO for the last time? Have you played it at all? From your posts, one can be almost sure you haven't. Just follow old gossip.
PS: So you say this is complete failure? Check solo vid from last beta:
www.xfire.com/video/fca39/
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I just love this; thank you. I am glad someone else agrees that the Turbine engine is complete bollocks. Atari probably DID plan this from a while back, but they should have. They have every reason to want to take the rights from Turbine. Turbine created a complete shit version of their IP.
Somnulus: I am not going to quote your post too, but I just love your comparisons between the two games, and I think they prove your original point quite well. There are of course many difference between EQ and D&D, but the two are much closer than D&D and DDO. Some of these Turbine fanboys are driving me up a wall. I hope this evidence might drop them a peg. I will not hold my breath.
Edit:
Sarr: Yes, that is what I would call failure. Look at the UI. Look at the action bars in particular. Look at the way the character moves. Look at the combat animations in particular. Look at the way his feet seem disconnected from the ground. Look at the way he moves across the ground in unnatural ways. They have added more terrible content, yes, but the game itself is the same as it ever was. The engine functions the same, and it still runs poorly and makes the characters look terrible. And do not forget the hideous UI. At least LOTRO has a pretty UI to go with their terrible models and animations and gameplay.
Side note: LOTRO Minstrels can kill monsters with music. On that basis alone the game loses and makes a mockery of the magnificent world created by Tolkien.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO?
I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes.
EDIT:
To the post above. WHAT?
You really haven't played in beta, am I right? Half of what you wrote just isn't true. No connection with surface? Man, DDO has it done the best you can find anywhere.
So I think you just see what you want in this vid of not-so-great quality
. Hmm, all your points aren't accurate. But there's no point in arguing over a video too! That's ridiculous! Just download the game for free and see. I'm 100% confident here, so just see for youself - no bullshit, you're wrong.
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You love when someone agrees with your opinion? Is it any stronger now? Nope. I actually love Turbine's engine and the fact that it's the most advanced out there. Can you tumble, dogde, block monsters (due to collision system) with your tanks in any other MMO?
I also love their graphics. They have that distinct feel you either love or hate. You may hate it, but that's a matter of taste. And nothing even a small bit bigger. For example, I hate WoW graphics and engine - and I see tons of similar engines. Does it make it "bad"? Just becasue me and probably most people in this thread don't like it? No. That's a matter of personal tastes.
Of course I like people to agree with me. I take it you do not like that? Most advanced is kind of a joke. Spellborn comes to mind with dodging and blocking, just offhand. GW has collision as well. Their graphics are beautiful. But art is a matter of taste. The quality of the engine is less so. DX10 graphics and quality art does not an engine or a game make.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Too little info to take sides on the legal matter on who's right or not, and companies lie so much (they call it PR) that even with a lot of info I'd probably not take sides.
Suffice to say I support any resolution that lets a high quality D&D MMORPG get made that actually reflects D&D and high quality MMORPG's.
Wait, what?! Turbine is suing Atari? Because Atari didn't live up to it's end? In what universe? Atari tried hard to promote the general bucket of slop that is DDO, even when they were having money problems of their own. There is only so much you can do. This is just Turbine desperate for capital because they realized that the F2P DDO:EU isn't going to get them any more money than the P2P version. Which all by itself should tell you how naive or ignorant the business minds are over there. Do we have any word of a counter filing?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic.
Another video. This time it's not even from new DDO version, but old - this is how it looked year ago.
Dedicated to those who said DDO isn't fast. isn't thrilling, has bad graphics and poor gameplay:
www.xfire.com/video/b7a7c/
And actual screenshots I made in the game. Many still from older version, which had worse graphics, without DX10. Most were taken by me, plus there's one map of continent from books:
If those look bad to you, then it's a matter of taste.
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I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic.
Oh, wow. That's low. I don't have much love for Turbine or their games, but Atari...really? They should at least pretend to try and help Turbine out. I think the theory that this is a plan on Atari's part to back out and give the rights to someone else. I would like that, personally, but this is not the way to go about it. I think I was a bit hasty here based on my general dislike of Turbine. I think Turbine will be able to secure that 30 mil, based on the facts as we know them.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I may be wrong, but from what the article said they had an agreement until 2016 in relation to the D&D IP and Atari tried backing out in November 2008 and withdrew all of their support from the game. I think that's the main illegal event that they're suing over. In addition to using the D&D IP with their new company Cryptic, when they're supposed to be supporting it with Turbine.
Edit: I've noticed your lack of research in responses in other threads too, like the Champions Online one where you tried to bash my statement but then I gave proof on how he is a fanboy and not being sarcastic. Please read and provide some evidence before you post in the future. You can also revisit that post with links to how his posts aren't sarcastic.
Oh, wow. That's low. I don't have much love for Turbine or their games, but Atari...really? They should at least pretend to try and help Turbine out. I think the theory that this is a plan on Atari's part to back out and give the rights to someone else. I would like that, personally, but this is not the way to go about it. I think I was a bit hasty here based on my general dislike of Turbine. I think Turbine will be able to secure that 30 mil, based on the facts as we know them.
I'm not very much a fan of Turbine at all, but I'm actually interested in what they've done with DDO. All of those things aside, I would still be very upset with Atari for such a backhanded move. It really makes me wonder who's behind all of the Cryptic marketing fiasco's. It's probably Atari's fault.
I want to like the name Atari for my fond memories of the early 80's with my 2600. As I understand, this company is not that original builder of fun. Its been passed around and restarted a few times with different butt heads dragging its name in the dirt. Turbine might not have launched DDO in great shape 3 years ago but they seem to be working very hard to turn it around from that humble start. Atari needs to buck up and work with Turbine for both of thier benefits or help Turbine find another distributor. Either lead or get the hell out of the way.