Home › Game Forums › Aion
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Aion installs a Rootkit so I will NOT be buying it.
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
That's exactly the point. Anti-virus packages "see" gamespy arcade. Gameguard has been known to bypass, and in some instances disable, certain services required by the security software as it tries to stay hidden on your system. All the while, being accessible to nProtect's update servers for as long as the program is running. (I believe I've mentioned the fact that Gameguard continues to run even AFTER you log out of the game.) We all know how often servers get hacked. Who's to say nProtect's servers won't? In fact, many of nProtect's clients have had MAJOR security breaches. Coincidence? Maybe...
All it takes is 1 keylogger, slipped into your computer, through software that has been known to bypass your security suites. May as well leave your front door unlocked, because your neighborhood has a police force. Hell, that's not even the right analogy. It's more like giving the cops the keys to your house.
Just because it's "supposed" to do good doesn't mean it's invulnerable to malicious intent. The safest systems are the ones with informed, proactive users. - Fact
I don't see how anyone can be informed or proactive users about this subject when so much information floating on the web are invalid sources. I have been digging through it for a few hours now.
You might want to define what clients you mean or even state them, because I am having a hard to time finding client breech that are not coincidence or hacking that is actually related to it as a software. I mean hacking happen all the time, and I have not found anything that prove GG being directly responsible. If you have some actual sources it will help save me some time.
It also only takes 1 virus to slip past your computer's protection to screw it up, why are we playing the game of chances? Also going to need an example with diagnostic report that show evidence of this if it ever had happened. Plenty of people had virus slip past their protections or hacked despite how much they know about preventing it. This example is so hard to validate I'll put it in the "mere theory" pile for now until I find some reports on this.
I think the key word here are "malicious intents" is correct, since most of the half decent sources seem to indicate user or hacking by people that lead to or resulting most of the issue. GG's standard problems still stand as a badly programmed software, but nothing so far-fetched as you suggested. Unless provide me with some sources where I can actually confirm this.
Being a proactive and informed user is pretty hard, so help me out since apparently my source gathering skills have not been able to validate most of your comments. Seriously, if you can just give me all the resources where you got your information from, then I would be able to save some time. Exclude wiki please since I have read that, also exclude most references from those since I have read and found most of those invald due to most of those are about how to hack GG.
http://secunia.com/advisories/13928/ - and has been unpatched since 2005.
I fail to understand how anyone can defend Gameguard. I can understand tolerating it, but defending the arbitrary usage of this garbage is just laughable. Then again, this is a gaming website full of biased fanboys. Aion could cause a giant steel fist to come out of their monitor and punch them in the nuts, and someone would still be willing to defend it as a 'feature'. If Aion were some awe-inspiring game, perhaps it would be worth dealing with GG on my system. Unfortunately, that is far from the case.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
That's exactly the point. Anti-virus packages "see" gamespy arcade. Gameguard has been known to bypass, and in some instances disable, certain services required by the security software as it tries to stay hidden on your system. All the while, being accessible to nProtect's update servers for as long as the program is running. (I believe I've mentioned the fact that Gameguard continues to run even AFTER you log out of the game.) We all know how often servers get hacked. Who's to say nProtect's servers won't? In fact, many of nProtect's clients have had MAJOR security breaches. Coincidence? Maybe...
All it takes is 1 keylogger, slipped into your computer, through software that has been known to bypass your security suites. May as well leave your front door unlocked, because your neighborhood has a police force. Hell, that's not even the right analogy. It's more like giving the cops the keys to your house.
Just because it's "supposed" to do good doesn't mean it's invulnerable to malicious intent. The safest systems are the ones with informed, proactive users. - Fact
I don't see how anyone can be informed or proactive users about this subject when so much information floating on the web are invalid sources. I have been digging through it for a few hours now.
You might want to define what clients you mean or even state them, because I am having a hard to time finding client breech that are not coincidence or hacking that is actually related to it as a software. I mean hacking happen all the time, and I have not found anything that prove GG being directly responsible. If you have some actual sources it will help save me some time.
It also only takes 1 virus to slip past your computer's protection to screw it up, why are we playing the game of chances? Also going to need an example with diagnostic report that show evidence of this if it ever had happened. Plenty of people had virus slip past their protections or hacked despite how much they know about preventing it. This example is so hard to validate I'll put it in the "mere theory" pile for now until I find some reports on this.
I think the key word here are "malicious intents" is correct, since most of the half decent sources seem to indicate user or hacking by people that lead to or resulting most of the issue. GG's standard problems still stand as a badly programmed software, but nothing so far-fetched as you suggested. Unless provide me with some sources where I can actually confirm this.
Being a proactive and informed user is pretty hard, so help me out since apparently my source gathering skills have not been able to validate most of your comments. Seriously, if you can just give me all the resources where you got your information from, then I would be able to save some time. Exclude wiki please since I have read that, also exclude most references from those since I have read and found most of those invald due to most of those are about how to hack GG.
If your that worried about one virus getting past your anti virus etc . its quite simple never access the internet . Every time you do you put yourself at some risk . This program puts you at vastly less risk than accessing a webpage your unfamilair with and your most likly do that everyday . DONT PANIC . lol
This has all been discussed before. I'm sure you will find many threads, some very long, on this site.
I searched the GD for rootkit and nothing came up, sorry. But, I'll bring it up again because people should know when they are treated like criminals for no other reason then buying a game.
I give up I don't care anymore. I don't working for nprotect, so I have no further obligations to try validate sources.
Only truth all source seem to indicate is that Gameguard is NOT a Rootkit even though method of hiding process is similar. However everything else are all debatable since there are just no valid sources anywhere that are based on actual diagnostic or research.
I never had any problems with GG and I have mutlple games with it and both firewalls and AV running fine. I'll just go play OBT once it is my turn.
Rant:
The day OBT started, mine ran smooth, but my friend came and hogged it all day. Today for some reason, (I suspect the one yesterday told her) a different friend came and hogged it. At least this one is a girl, and not bad looking, it is an improvement, but I still haven't got to play OBT even though mine launched smoothly. FTL
So you never played it because of gameguard by your own admitance ,then how do you know its far from the case . Whats that i smell is it bovine faeces ?
So you never played it because of gameguard by your own admitance ,then how do you know its far from the case . Whats that i smell is it bovine faeces ?
No you moron, I *DID* play it, and started having such fun issues as my DVD drive vanishing from my system, requireing a reboot to get it back, and having IE shut down or crash, depending on what website was open...only while Aion was running...seeing the laundry list of system log entries on my machine related to GG, and how it conflicts with perfectly legit apps, I decided Aion isn't worth this bullshit. After the last CB, I formatted my gaming rig and cancelled my pre-order. I played in the last two closed betas. The game is marginally fun, but not worth thrashing my entire OS just to get it to run.
Oh, and that bovine feces you smell is probably leaking out of your skull.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
That's exactly the point. Anti-virus packages "see" gamespy arcade. Gameguard has been known to bypass, and in some instances disable, certain services required by the security software as it tries to stay hidden on your system. All the while, being accessible to nProtect's update servers for as long as the program is running. (I believe I've mentioned the fact that Gameguard continues to run even AFTER you log out of the game.) We all know how often servers get hacked. Who's to say nProtect's servers won't? In fact, many of nProtect's clients have had MAJOR security breaches. Coincidence? Maybe...
All it takes is 1 keylogger, slipped into your computer, through software that has been known to bypass your security suites. May as well leave your front door unlocked, because your neighborhood has a police force. Hell, that's not even the right analogy. It's more like giving the cops the keys to your house.
Just because it's "supposed" to do good doesn't mean it's invulnerable to malicious intent. The safest systems are the ones with informed, proactive users. - Fact
I don't see how anyone can be informed or proactive users about this subject when so much information floating on the web are invalid sources. I have been digging through it for a few hours now.
You might want to define what clients you mean or even state them, because I am having a hard to time finding client breech that are not coincidence or hacking that is actually related to it as a software. I mean hacking happen all the time, and I have not found anything that prove GG being directly responsible. If you have some actual sources it will help save me some time.
It also only takes 1 virus to slip past your computer's protection to screw it up, why are we playing the game of chances? Also going to need an example with diagnostic report that show evidence of this if it ever had happened. Plenty of people had virus slip past their protections or hacked despite how much they know about preventing it. This example is so hard to validate I'll put it in the "mere theory" pile for now until I find some reports on this.
I think the key word here are "malicious intents" is correct, since most of the half decent sources seem to indicate user or hacking by people that lead to or resulting most of the issue. GG's standard problems still stand as a badly programmed software, but nothing so far-fetched as you suggested. Unless provide me with some sources where I can actually confirm this.
Being a proactive and informed user is pretty hard, so help me out since apparently my source gathering skills have not been able to validate most of your comments. Seriously, if you can just give me all the resources where you got your information from, then I would be able to save some time. Exclude wiki please since I have read that, also exclude most references from those since I have read and found most of those invald due to most of those are about how to hack GG.
Mere Therory? 9/11, Enron and Pearl Harbor were "mere theories". When there's a will, there's a way. Mere theory means it's possible, and what a more profitable target than the one that everyone thinks is "perfectly safe". Saddam Hussein never even dreamt that the Isrealis would air strike his brand new nuclear reactor. Millions of dollars down the tubes because someone attacking his readtor was only "theoretical".
Guys..... THINK ABOUT IT. Do you see ANY American game designers using Gameguard? Outsourcing is cheaper than writing your own anti-hacking software so we know it's not a profit issue....
Let's go down that theory road again, just for giggles. One program... bypassing all your security... diabling your diagnostic functions... staying hidden on your system... running even when you don't need it to....
That doesn't sound good no matter HOW you dice it. I can simply click uninstall if I don't want my McAfee Security Center anymore. Try that with Gameguard and see what happens.
If I even got 1 person to think twice anout installing software with Gameguard in it, I've done this community a service.
That's exactly the point. Anti-virus packages "see" gamespy arcade. Gameguard has been known to bypass, and in some instances disable, certain services required by the security software as it tries to stay hidden on your system. All the while, being accessible to nProtect's update servers for as long as the program is running. (I believe I've mentioned the fact that Gameguard continues to run even AFTER you log out of the game.) We all know how often servers get hacked. Who's to say nProtect's servers won't? In fact, many of nProtect's clients have had MAJOR security breaches. Coincidence? Maybe...
All it takes is 1 keylogger, slipped into your computer, through software that has been known to bypass your security suites. May as well leave your front door unlocked, because your neighborhood has a police force. Hell, that's not even the right analogy. It's more like giving the cops the keys to your house.
Just because it's "supposed" to do good doesn't mean it's invulnerable to malicious intent. The safest systems are the ones with informed, proactive users. - Fact
I don't see how anyone can be informed or proactive users about this subject when so much information floating on the web are invalid sources. I have been digging through it for a few hours now.
You might want to define what clients you mean or even state them, because I am having a hard to time finding client breech that are not coincidence or hacking that is actually related to it as a software. I mean hacking happen all the time, and I have not found anything that prove GG being directly responsible. If you have some actual sources it will help save me some time.
It also only takes 1 virus to slip past your computer's protection to screw it up, why are we playing the game of chances? Also going to need an example with diagnostic report that show evidence of this if it ever had happened. Plenty of people had virus slip past their protections or hacked despite how much they know about preventing it. This example is so hard to validate I'll put it in the "mere theory" pile for now until I find some reports on this.
I think the key word here are "malicious intents" is correct, since most of the half decent sources seem to indicate user or hacking by people that lead to or resulting most of the issue. GG's standard problems still stand as a badly programmed software, but nothing so far-fetched as you suggested. Unless provide me with some sources where I can actually confirm this.
Being a proactive and informed user is pretty hard, so help me out since apparently my source gathering skills have not been able to validate most of your comments. Seriously, if you can just give me all the resources where you got your information from, then I would be able to save some time. Exclude wiki please since I have read that, also exclude most references from those since I have read and found most of those invald due to most of those are about how to hack GG.
Mere Therory? 9/11, Enron and Pearl Harbor were "mere theories". When there's a will, there's a way. Mere theory means it's possible, and what a more profitable target than the one that everyone thinks is "perfectly safe". Saddam Hussein never even dreamt that the Isrealis would air strike his brand new nuclear reactor. Millions of dollars down the tubes because someone attacking his readtor was only "theoretical".
Guys..... THINK ABOUT IT. Do you see ANY American game designers using Gameguard? Outsourcing is cheaper than writing your own anti-hacking software so we know it's not a profit issue....
Let's go down that theory road again, just for giggles. One program... bypassing all your security... diabling your diagnostic functions... staying hidden on your system... running even when you don't need it to....
That doesn't sound good no matter HOW you dice it. I can simply click uninstall if I don't want my McAfee Security Center anymore. Try that with Gameguard and see what happens.
If I even got 1 person to think twice anout installing software with Gameguard in it, I've done this community a service.
Gameguard is popular in South Korea, and other eastern markets, because cyber-cafes are basically full-time gaming arcades. Gamers don't care because it's not their box. In US markets where most gamers own their gaming rig, yeah gameguard makes even the developers uncomfortable (they want to be comfortable playing their own game from home!) which is why you don't see it that much.
It's basically back-door access into your OS. It is identical to voluntarily installing a trojan.
Sad thing about all this is that Gameguard does not protect Aion in any way, shape or form. NCsoft totally missed the ball in thinking protecting Aion would be the same in the Asian net caffes and in Western homes. It will does not protect cheats, hackers and botters in the West as there are simply too many ways to bypass it. The only thing it does is cause problems for users. It has 0 benefits, can't think of any way in which Gameguard makes Aion a better or more secure game.
Pretty poor mistake which will cots them dearly.
1) Gameguard installs itself without permission or even knowledge of the user.
2) Gameguard prevents perfectly legitimate programs from running properly in many cases (Chrome and Steam for example).
3) NCSoft advises people to shut down and/or uninstall their firewall and AV.
The third point alone is good enough reason not to get Aion. The advice is downright moronic in every way.
"Please make your computer vulnerable so you can pay us to play a game"
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
this is just the tricky way communists are takin over. make a purdy game with wings to make all the americans go ooooo and awwww. slip in a program to watch everything they do, bam! goodbye america!
I am concerned becuase I use my xbox for windows controller to play games and I use it for my mouse since I have a permanent wrist injury that prevents me from using a regular mouse.
I use xpadder and my xbox controller to do this and one of the applications that is listed as a no-go for GG is xpadder. I think this is wrong for disabled people like me and other who may use this for assistive purposes. This is also used for other disabled people to use alternative input devices such as foot petals and such is they lost thier hands in battle or an accident. I knew of someone who hacked together a sultion to play WoW and he was happy he could game again after a accident took out both his hands and half of his right arm. he used a speech to text app for typing things and such.
Please advise the gaming companies to not allow GG to discriminate against those who use alternative input devices like me and other with injuries/disabilities. I was very upset when I saw AION on the list, as I looked forward to playing this game.
I hope that this issue is resolved soon.
I know you don't want my pity, but I just wanna start out by saying that I feel for you man. Because of a persistent shoulder injury, I've had to spend over $3,000 to make my desk at home and at work more ergonomic.
With that said, I'm, sorry to report that your out of luck. Aion will NOT fix this issue unless they dump Gameguard.
I had this EXACT same problem with my old MERC Gaming Keyboard. This device adds programmable, multi-button functionallity to a keyboard. This is very similar to a game controller. In order to do this, there needs to be a device driver on the system that tells the system what each input is supposed to mean. (i.e. pressing X for back, LT for left-click, etc)
To make a long story short, the software starts a service that re-assigns button functions to an other than standard keyboard and mouse configuration. Gameguard denies this service, because it sees this at an attempt to hack/bot/cheat. In my case, this didn't stop when i logged out of the game OR restarted. My keyboard was useless as anything other than a standard QWERTY keyboard, until I hunted down EVERY process, file, folder and registry entry related to Gameguard and deleted them.
Peripheral manufacturers have REPEATEDLY asked nProtect to patch their software to allow their devices. Some even submitted to them copies and source code for their software and drivers. All recieved no response. Nothing was done to make these peripherals useable with Gameguard. Only by working with the developers of Aion directly did SteelSeries (formerly Ideazon) finally get nProtect to allow functionality for the zEngine drivers and products. 3 years AFTER my issue. So I'm sorry to say, I'm about 99% sure that ur f _ _ ked bro.
With that kind of customer service, lack of proffessional cooperation and lack of industrial foresight it's no wonder Gameguard is a piece of $#!t. And the devs were fools for using it on a US launch. Unless all the WoW kiddies come over here, this game will never be more than a marginal success, simply because of Gameguard. Why do you think they spent so much money on hype?
game guard is not a rootkit (even if sometimes he works like one), also aion don't really use the gameguard, it was used before but now is not working, gameguard is a software who blocks any 3rd party program who can mess with the game (hacks and such), even though anyone who knows a little about computer knows how to make the thing don't work with just a little "/" and "spaces" in a certain file.
I also read in auion source aion in us do not use gameguard, I also don't see it load on my pc so i'm pretty sure the game are not using it
but the like criminal part make me wonder XD, did you buy bioshock 2? or any game who need you do "validate" your game via internet? DRM things like that? because that ones are more like that.
The OP sounds like a moron. Basically what he/she just said is..."this game installs a subprogram that keeps bots and hackers out of the game im going to play...so i instantly dont want to buy it."
let me spell this out for you...
GAMEGUARD WILL NOT WATCH YOU ON YOUR PORN0GRAPHY SITES... PROMISE. Your hentai is safe.
Game guard only runs when you are playing the game its intended for. It doesnt watch your system for everything, only for cheating programs that they have logged in their database.
To me you sound like one of those people that will disagree with something without understanding the big picture.
i.e. random guy 1 is running for president. All he does is say the word "tax" and you instantly hate him...in actuality he was saying that he was going to reduce "tax" on all products. but because he said that unholy 'T' word you hate and despise his guts.
You mentioned that you're not tech savvy and thats understandable. But know that not all things are bad...Computers aren't the ultimate evil in this world...i promise. Some rootkits are helpers serving a different purpose than to monitor you and your bestiality. Its not the program that matters its what its being used for. I can write a virus that kills other viruses. Yes, it is a virus but a virus with a different purpose. Yes gameguard acts like a rootkit and is recognized by some virus programs as such but its not a bad thing.
now that ive ranted. let me ask you. Would you rather have gameguard harmlessly watching for cheats in the background, or would you rather have a game littered with bots and gold sellers and people cheating in PvP?
and as some one said earlier if theres any program to watch its blizzards background babysitter it has running.
////////////
function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
}
nice way to ress old thread..
anyways.. GG in Aion hasnt been on since end of CB, when ALOT of people were complaining it makes their game unplayable because it caused some serious lag spikes and what not.