I love the idea of nearly-unbeatable bosses so long as there are other bosses who can be beaten. Something to just throw yourself at and try to become famous is epic.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
yep wow is getting old true,it aged toward the freerealm genre it isnt bad but it left lot of player on the sidewalk
but counting blizzard out just because they dont catter to lot good player is silly
blizzard only need to change some server to elite and they ll get those player back easy
and dont be surprised if blizzard add elite server only avail after you reached level 80 in regular
it probably will happen
blizzard doesnt pour million in wow just to let it die
the only thing wow miss is some first person view locked server ,and change it (a la eq1)
fpv +eq1 style gameplay can we say epic gaming
i sure can and for blizzard doing that would be fairly easy for them since about everything they need to change the game to that way isd already there only very few stuff would be needed to add
when i say eq1 i dont mean to go totally like them ,but just remove the handholding in wow,remove the add-on,remove
the coord,remove the compass
thats what what i mean when i say go back to eq1 nothing more ,thyose change +first person view locked wow
would be enough to make wow epic
imagine your on one of those server ,rogue jump you now you truelly jump out of your skin
i forgot 2 other thing for hardcore server
death penalty you add that to the hardcore server of wow
2 if you die you dont walk back ,it take whatever blizzard feel is good time to respawn then you respawn where you died but
everything around you respawn too
those change would be very easy for blizzard to put in since most are already in the game
Most of these posts complaining about WoW are borderline ridiculous. Many of you guys admit to playing the game for years and find yourselves bored and blame the game.
Having just downed Freya I can say the OP crossed the borderline with ease.
No use even reading his post past the first line: "After >5 years of playing..."
Silly to argue with people who put out words like suck for a Blizzard quality game they played for 5 years at 4 hours a day.
I agree WoW was a great game on day 1, it had so much potental that we didn't get to see. I dont think this is BLizzards fauly imo a MMO at +5 years or even +2 is a product of its community. Its the WoW players (me and you) that turned a great game into Hello Kitty Island Adventure with Orcs and Gnomes. It does bother the hell out of me to see so many other games with "WoW" stamped on them like an after thought or a requierment of the moron buisness types who have no buisness what so ever affecting the creative outcome of a game {yes I hate money grubbers interfearing in development}. People talk about or hope for a WoW killer now a days; to me the WoW killer was World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade and finaly Wrath of the Litch King just as Shrouded Isles and then Trials of Atlantis killed DAoC for me (Damn necro I played one but ya they broke the game for me amongst other things).
Most of these posts complaining about WoW are borderline ridiculous. Many of you guys admit to playing the game for years and find yourselves bored and blame the game.
Having just downed Freya I can say the OP crossed the borderline with ease.
No use even reading his post past the first line: "After >5 years of playing..."
Silly to argue with people who put out words like suck for a Blizzard quality game they played for 5 years at 4 hours a day.
If you had read the post you might have viewed it in the light that I did, less of a gripe and more of a lament, at some point every title hits that point where it "dies" for the given player. Doesn't mean it does for every one at the same time and some players will love it forever and more power to them. What I got out of it was much like what I feel. WoW was an awsome game, it was a ton of fun for years and now the fun is over (for me and apparently the OP), we list a few things we regret i.e. classes, mechanic changes, etc. and look forward to the next game, happends with every MMO its only a matter of time.
MMOs evolves and changes. In Wows case it is because they started aiming for younger players, some are down to 10 years old.
I don't see any problem in that (but of course I don't actually play Wow), we who wants a harder game will just have to find one that is.
Sure, some companies have followed Blizzards footsteps but others isn't. If you want a future release that will be really hard you just have to look for Guildwars 2, Arenanert makes things harder, not easier.
It is great that some games are for people who likes easy games and some for people who wants hard games. I can understand that many of the old players feel betrayed by Blizzard but Blizzard and most other companies goal is to make more money.
There are a few people who just like making fun games, like Jeff Strain (Diablo, Warcraft 3, Guildwars 1 & 2), Bioware and ID software. Other like EA are after the money and are trying to make a game they think players will buy.
Blizzard started out like a small company making games because it was fun but they just got to big. EA actually started the same way, anyone who had a C-64 or a Amiga remembers EA games with foundness.
But big companies always needs more money, that isn't really something strange. Make expansions and sequels is the 2 easiest ways, making the game fun for the bigger groups is another one. It is not really something Blizzard is wrong in, this is something that very few larger gaming companies doesn't fall for.
Blizzard just got too big. Find another game you like better or live with it.
MMOs evolves and changes. In Wows case it is because they started aiming for younger players, some are down to 10 years old. I don't see any problem in that (but of course I don't actually play Wow), we who wants a harder game will just have to find one that is. Sure, some companies have followed Blizzards footsteps but others isn't. If you want a future release that will be really hard you just have to look for Guildwars 2, Arenanert makes things harder, not easier. It is great that some games are for people who likes easy games and some for people who wants hard games. I can understand that many of the old players feel betrayed by Blizzard but Blizzard and most other companies goal is to make more money. There are a few people who just like making fun games, like Jeff Strain (Diablo, Warcraft 3, Guildwars 1 & 2), Bioware and ID software. Other like EA are after the money and are trying to make a game they think players will buy. Blizzard started out like a small company making games because it was fun but they just got to big. EA actually started the same way, anyone who had a C-64 or a Amiga remembers EA games with foundness. But big companies always needs more money, that isn't really something strange. Make expansions and sequels is the 2 easiest ways, making the game fun for the bigger groups is another one. It is not really something Blizzard is wrong in, this is something that very few larger gaming companies doesn't fall for. Blizzard just got too big. Find another game you like better or live with it.
I disagree that Blizzard has got to big to care or to make fun games, sure WoW is a huge game and even Blizzard will admit the success it enjoys has even surprised Blizzard, but then look at Starcraft 2, a game they announced 3 years ago and still not released, if it was all about the money Starcraft 2 would of been released over a year ago. D3 is in a similar situation.
Compare Starcraft2 to Dow2, or more to the point Blizzard to Relic, the first DoW game and Company of heroes were among he best RTS games, but then look at the last CoH expansion and DoW2, both rush jobs, yet we are still waiting for the king of the RTS starcraft2 11 years since Starcraft1.
Despite this just being a QQ thread it's not really a troll thread, so yay, and sadly I agree with most of these statements.
WoW was so fresh when it came out. It made you feel excited to run through Durotar for the first time (Or Elwynn, or anywhere else) and see the creatures, the art style, the story and the progression.
At max level (60 vanilla) it was as if you had opened a jar of chaos and challenge. Even normal instances required semi-competent groups (Scholomance, anybody?) and raids had a thing called progression. You would try to see what worked, learn from your mistakes and move forward. I was on Shattered Hand US and it was, for a time, the most advanced raiding server out there. Still it was new and exciting to see who cleared what boss and brought back bragging rights. This still exists to a point, but the fact that the 25-man Hardmode Trial of the Grand Crusader was beaten, what, the first day it was released? By more than a few guilds? That's not really progression any more, just the beginning of a long session of farming. By the time the last boss of an instance had been beaten in Vanilla there was a new one ready and the mechanics were both punishing and interesting. Above is a raid QQ, I know. Not everyone wanted things this way and many are happy with how things are. I might be, too, if it wasn't for..
PvP. In my mind it had several incarnations and several deaths. The rough starter incarnation when people had to grind to Warlord and Grand Marshal was tough and was just an honor grind, but the actual PvP behind the scenes here was the greatest WoW has ever known. Servers fought against their own enemies and you knew who you were fighting. You had allies and you had your nemesis. There were people who everybody knew and avoided. People who everybody ganged up against. It felt like real battles and you would see them out in the world later. This died with cross-server BGs and battlegrounds were never the same to me again. The second incarnation was in BC with PvP tiers. This, however, was quickly ruined by arenas that, even until today, are so unbalanced week-by-week (and unfixably so) due to random buffs and nerfs that you must have one of every class at maximum level if you wish to stand a chance week-to-week. And unless you're really good arenas don't want to be played.. you'll just lose face if you try, so do just the minimum and then sit in Dalaran. Above is the PvP QQ, I know. Not everyone agrees with me and many are happy with arenas. I might be, too, if it wasn't for..
The molding broccoli effect. The same magic that entranced us WoWees and former WoWees has seeped into the soil and turned to mold. Nothing new is fresh save for some early expansion material, likely due to the engine and the way the game plays. It isn't bad, no, it's probably still the best MMO mechanics and engine out there for most. It's just old. It's dated. It's the same thing it was at level 1 except with new abilities that fluctuate in usefulness.
I would recommend WoW to any first-time MMO player in a heartbeat. But I cannot recommend it to myself no matter how much I want to.
Promises have been broken and the community has completely fallen apart. A game is it's community, and WoW's community is deteriorating every second I type. I must prepare its burial before it is too rotten to touch. Thank you if you read all this 'Histoires of the World of Warcraft' entry, and see you in another game.
Very well stated. I feel as if you read my mind sir! Reading this brought back my 3 years of 40-80 hours a week memories of this once great juggernaut of a game. I concur that after BC was released the game started a slide downhill. I miss ony raids and BWL even to this day sometimes. Back when the game was a challenge. Even AQ made my butt pucker. I agree 100% about the pvp xserver bgs that you mentioned. Arena was the premier way to pvp and at the time as a hunter when I quit I refused to go beast mastery for raiding or pvp. That was my nail in the coffin for my pre bc warlord toon. Well spoken 100% agree.
This is where they need to learn from the HNM bosses in FFXI , not all of them are on easy mode and if u dont do it right your stuffed , so all down to tactics.
Sorry but WOtLK is MILES above the original WOW raids and boss tactics. You didn't have siege and mounted combat tanks either.
Nor the scaling, nor the phasing, not the world designs can touch WotlK;
And Blizzard certainly doesn't need to take lessons from the spank/tank of boring grinding gear games like FF.
The advancements of guilds clearly shows only few guilds can down the final bosses in the hardest content matches.
want proof ? : look at statistics before talking plain and utterly lies about MY game.
And in true WoW standards, that content will be on farm by every pug out there in 6 months time. That too is a simple truth of WoW's challenging content.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Most of BC pre-nerfs was hard, harder than EQ or FF11(yeah really, this is a fact). M'uru was the hardest encounter even done in a MMO. But by hard it doesn't mean tank-and-spank bosses that last 10 hours, but my making each player in a 25 man raid to use around 15 abilties, macros and move properly at the correct time while still syncing with all the other 24 players to defeat the boss.
While WOTLK is cattering to casuals and sometimes, retards, there were hard bosses such as Algalon 25, Yogg Saron 25 with 0 keepers and Anub'arak 25 on heroic mode. I 3/4 agree about WOTLK being too easy because it has very few hard bosses, but to say BC and Naxx/AQ40 was easy, then you never played WoW and you have no right to comment, since you probably took your fast from bandwagoon threads on random forums.
And lol Kaocan, even with Icecrown gear, people won't be able to pug OS 25 with 3 drakes up since it still takes a lot of coordonation to pull of. Have a clue about how WoW works please.
What are you smoking with your edited comment Zorn?
WoW is certainly not the first game to introduce titles and achievements as a reward system. In addition WoW is still very much a gear oriented game. I think your last comment is way off base.
Originally posted by SgtFrog Play Final Fantasy 11, best PVE game imo. And maybe you can try and beat pandemonium warden, no one has been able to beat him for years
Pandemonium Warden has been killed. Also, every time people figure out how to kill Absolute Virtue SE will change it so you cant use the same tactic.
There were not many hardcore progression guilds in the early days of vanilla. The reason why it took so long to kill Rag and Ony was because the game sucked back then. Most of the talent trees were horrible or broken and the gear itemisation was atrocious. Spirit on Warrior gear?! Spell Power on Hunter gear?!
As the talent trees got fixed and itemisation got better people started progressing faster.
Also, I'd rather have boss encounters that are actually hard and not rely on some insane gimmik or take hours and hours.
But they won't have the prestigious mounts and titles awards.
And those are timeless btw. Gear is just a means to an end to get to those prestigious bragging rights. Something old and rusted mmo players don't seem to understand, because of too rusty to understand the present day success of the game in its perfect and very well made 6 month cycle. It keeps the game going with 60 % market share. Simple. Edit: Wow is the first MMO that breaks free of the dreadful "epic gear thet gets old " argument. Every other fantasy game I played you gain levels and gear to advance. But in WOW 2009 you advance beyond epics to reach out for prestige and awards (like mounts /titles) and achievements. Blizzard already stated this multiple times: they were inspired by the Xbox achievement system: players keep playing because of these in game status symbols. Be it PvP/PVE. It gives the advantage of having far more "timeless" awards. Pants and an epic boot or sword is not timeless : they serve to get you that title. That's the secret of WOW 2009 and its ongoing succesful rate in subs. It is far more important than a personal cycle experience and some usless ranting about it (for the other 11.6 million players playing it).
Lets stop right there shall we. Tons of games out there have had achievement and title awards for YEARS. City of Hero players have been getting/using them since 2004. Warhammer had the Book of Knowledge in Sept 2008, and Blizzard didnt' put it into WoW until Oct 2008. Blizzard did nothing more than steal yet another idea from someone else and make it part of WoW.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
The OP is burned out of WoW, the game is definitely not a fail. It's ridiculous to associate the world "fail" with "5 years played", really.
On the other hand, the talk about WoW raiding (which I did a lot and on the highest level possible on my server) got me thinking. Some people like to compare the complexity of the WoW encounters with whatever the competition is offering out there. Thing is, how far would any guild go towards these encounters if all they had to was the default interface? Other games out there do not allow modifications of the base interface, so you only have that to work with very limited information given. Imagine a fight where your thread knowledge is only by feeling, where you have the default raid interface for healing, no proximity warnings or other such systems, no boss encounter timers and so on. I believe that I'm describing a completely different game, don't I?
The OP is burned out of WoW, the game is definitely not a fail. It's ridiculous to associate the world "fail" with "5 years played", really. On the other hand, the talk about WoW raiding (which I did a lot and on the highest level possible on my server) got me thinking. Some people like to compare the complexity of the WoW encounters with whatever the competition is offering out there. Thing is, how far would any guild go towards these encounters if all they had to was the default interface? Other games out there do not allow modifications of the base interface, so you only have that to work with very limited information given. Imagine a fight where your thread knowledge is only by feeling, where you have the default raid interface for healing, no proximity warnings or other such systems, no boss encounter timers and so on. I believe that I'm describing a completely different game, don't I?
That is true. Blizzard has been designing encounters, not by what their default interface can do, but what the mods provided can do. That was true since vanilla WoW (decursive a very influential addon) and its true up to this day.
My point was that if Blizzard was designing their content with just their default UI in mind, the fights would have to be a lot simpler than what they are. You really can't do high end raiding without addons in WOW. On the other hand, the other MMO makers do design their content keeping always in mind the limitations of their default UI.
Which is the right approach, is hard to tell objectively.
I fear the developers will always look at the dollar signs and fail to see what we actually want (and do not want) in a game, anymore. Nice read.
You realize MMOs are a business, right?
This is both good and bad. It is good because due to free market economy it will deliver what most players actually want in a game, and avoid the features most players don't want. This is bad because most players aren't most players.
That is true. Blizzard has been designing encounters, not by what their default interface can do, but what the mods provided can do. That was true since vanilla WoW (decursive a very influential addon) and its true up to this day. My point was that if Blizzard was designing their content with just their default UI in mind, the fights would have to be a lot simpler than what they are. You really can't do high end raiding without addons in WOW. On the other hand, the other MMO makers do design their content keeping always in mind the limitations of their default UI. Which is the right approach, is hard to tell objectively.
Correct. try healing in a BG without healbot or some other tool ... it is a mess.
At the same time doing Arenas WITH healbot is a mess too.
But ... I play all content without other add-ons. So it IS possible (well for the average raiding guild I am in boss 11 Ulduar). No DBM for me. Always nice to know the GM in RL .
I deleted questhelper for good in Northrend: the game was far better (yes even more better ) ) without quest helper.
An anecdote: (not even a quest related one but it shows)....
A week ago I searched for 2 hours for the WSG vendor at level 18 with my BE hunter (seldom play Horde). I knew it was around the Ashenvale area but I simply ran into level 22 rogue mobs 20 times. After 2 hours I gave in and searched on thottbot. I needed to go to the frontier and not cross the Ashenvale border It is frustrating but it shows the game can be played otherwise.
Played this game for 4 years now and still playing content I didn't encounter when going Horde ....
People should throw away questhelper and READ the quests. Much more fun.
The problem is ... what do you do with the faction reputations? You still need to read websites for these.
And playing without DBM IS possible.
I don't heal arenas or PvE with healbot and still top the meters. All you really need are solid raid frames and mouse-over macros for your top spells.There are actually useful addons out there, like DBM, which makes things much easier. Healbot is just meh to me, I don't understand why many healers claim its a must.
The truth is, you can play the end-game raid content without addons. I don't know why people think they are a must. My guild has had to play without addons quite a few times because of new patch incompatibility issues, and always without any problems.
5 years later... I remember at release when we were promised hero CLASSES that were supposed to be hard to obtain, and meaningful. 5 years later, we have one imbalanced as hell hero class that totally sucks. The honor system was a joke, now replaced by the arena system that is more of a joke. Arena is exploitable on multiple levels, class combinations > skill and all that kinda stuff. Some class combinations have absolutely no chance regardless of skill, that is not how a meaningful PvP system that gives rewards as good as these ones should work. Think how pissed people would be if their prescious raids just wouldn't work without 5 of your 20 people being hunters or something dumb like that.
Raids, if you call thm raids... These raids are not raids. I can rant on for years about this. A raid dungeon is not something that you should be able to walk into and clear the place on your first week. I don't care if there is a heroic mode, you shouldn't be able to clear it the first week even on easy mode. What is the point? People are getting so used to being handfed easy epics that it has ruined the MMORPG community, not just in WoW, but now people expect easy mode whiney baby carebear crap in every game. It makes me sick. I would like to see HARD raids, you know like when you kill the mob you are like damn that was a fight, and you feel good about winning. Onyxia and Molten Core were great at release. They were hard. From then on it just got so easy that it was boring.
I don't play this game anymore, it bores me to tears, the only reason I'm posting this is because the millions of subscribers that play this boring game are getting bored, and I don't want to see the other developers shoot for the carebear crowd and try to make a new MMORPG marketed at these types. Gamers don't want their hands held, we want a challenge. WoW kiddies can get free epics from blizzard.
-You got bored playing wow for years, so now millions of other people must be bored too
-Millions of people cannot handle the "challenge" of other mmos, because they is so hard!
-Wow is for kids and apparently no adults enjoy the game
-Wow is to blame for all games in the genre, because "the wow mentality" is spilling over into other games and somehow making them release in a condition that does not attract players.
Please let me know if I missed anything.
Here I was all this time thinking that wow was so successful, because it is an extremely well made game in a market that is filled with utter shit that is rushed to market by companies that want to get rich quick, but lack the ability to make a decent product that will attract more than a handful of people.
Thankfully we have a few people who got bored of warcraft, found out how lacking the competition is and have accurately pinned blame on blizzard for the way things are in the entire market!
I'm sorry that you are bored with one game and the reality of the rest of the market has caught your attention. However that is not the fault of blizzard. I am sorry that the entire mmo market is so fucking weak that one game can absolutely dominate everything. I am sorry that not one other company has stepped up to the challenge to compete with wow to force companies to fight for our subscription dollars by creating the best games possible. I am sorry the market is filled with so many disspointments.
I agree that blizzard could do a lot of things better (not to the QQ degree that most here thing), but where is the competition to make that happen? Even without a single company threatening their position, blizzard is doing a pretty damn good job updating and expanding the game. What you may not like, millions of others do.
Comments
Play Final Fantasy 11, best PVE game imo.
And maybe you can try and beat pandemonium warden, no one has been able to beat him for years
wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pandemonium_Warden
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
I love the idea of nearly-unbeatable bosses so long as there are other bosses who can be beaten. Something to just throw yourself at and try to become famous is epic.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
yep wow is getting old true,it aged toward the freerealm genre it isnt bad but it left lot of player on the sidewalk
but counting blizzard out just because they dont catter to lot good player is silly
blizzard only need to change some server to elite and they ll get those player back easy
and dont be surprised if blizzard add elite server only avail after you reached level 80 in regular
it probably will happen
blizzard doesnt pour million in wow just to let it die
the only thing wow miss is some first person view locked server ,and change it (a la eq1)
fpv +eq1 style gameplay can we say epic gaming
i sure can and for blizzard doing that would be fairly easy for them since about everything they need to change the game to that way isd already there only very few stuff would be needed to add
when i say eq1 i dont mean to go totally like them ,but just remove the handholding in wow,remove the add-on,remove
the coord,remove the compass
thats what what i mean when i say go back to eq1 nothing more ,thyose change +first person view locked wow
would be enough to make wow epic
imagine your on one of those server ,rogue jump you now you truelly jump out of your skin
i forgot 2 other thing for hardcore server
death penalty you add that to the hardcore server of wow
2 if you die you dont walk back ,it take whatever blizzard feel is good time to respawn then you respawn where you died but
everything around you respawn too
those change would be very easy for blizzard to put in since most are already in the game
Having just downed Freya I can say the OP crossed the borderline with ease.
No use even reading his post past the first line: "After >5 years of playing..."
Silly to argue with people who put out words like suck for a Blizzard quality game they played for 5 years at 4 hours a day.
I agree WoW was a great game on day 1, it had so much potental that we didn't get to see. I dont think this is BLizzards fauly imo a MMO at +5 years or even +2 is a product of its community. Its the WoW players (me and you) that turned a great game into Hello Kitty Island Adventure with Orcs and Gnomes. It does bother the hell out of me to see so many other games with "WoW" stamped on them like an after thought or a requierment of the moron buisness types who have no buisness what so ever affecting the creative outcome of a game {yes I hate money grubbers interfearing in development}. People talk about or hope for a WoW killer now a days; to me the WoW killer was World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade and finaly Wrath of the Litch King just as Shrouded Isles and then Trials of Atlantis killed DAoC for me (Damn necro I played one but ya they broke the game for me amongst other things).
Having just downed Freya I can say the OP crossed the borderline with ease.
No use even reading his post past the first line: "After >5 years of playing..."
Silly to argue with people who put out words like suck for a Blizzard quality game they played for 5 years at 4 hours a day.
If you had read the post you might have viewed it in the light that I did, less of a gripe and more of a lament, at some point every title hits that point where it "dies" for the given player. Doesn't mean it does for every one at the same time and some players will love it forever and more power to them. What I got out of it was much like what I feel. WoW was an awsome game, it was a ton of fun for years and now the fun is over (for me and apparently the OP), we list a few things we regret i.e. classes, mechanic changes, etc. and look forward to the next game, happends with every MMO its only a matter of time.
MMOs evolves and changes. In Wows case it is because they started aiming for younger players, some are down to 10 years old.
I don't see any problem in that (but of course I don't actually play Wow), we who wants a harder game will just have to find one that is.
Sure, some companies have followed Blizzards footsteps but others isn't. If you want a future release that will be really hard you just have to look for Guildwars 2, Arenanert makes things harder, not easier.
It is great that some games are for people who likes easy games and some for people who wants hard games. I can understand that many of the old players feel betrayed by Blizzard but Blizzard and most other companies goal is to make more money.
There are a few people who just like making fun games, like Jeff Strain (Diablo, Warcraft 3, Guildwars 1 & 2), Bioware and ID software. Other like EA are after the money and are trying to make a game they think players will buy.
Blizzard started out like a small company making games because it was fun but they just got to big. EA actually started the same way, anyone who had a C-64 or a Amiga remembers EA games with foundness.
But big companies always needs more money, that isn't really something strange. Make expansions and sequels is the 2 easiest ways, making the game fun for the bigger groups is another one. It is not really something Blizzard is wrong in, this is something that very few larger gaming companies doesn't fall for.
Blizzard just got too big. Find another game you like better or live with it.
I disagree that Blizzard has got to big to care or to make fun games, sure WoW is a huge game and even Blizzard will admit the success it enjoys has even surprised Blizzard, but then look at Starcraft 2, a game they announced 3 years ago and still not released, if it was all about the money Starcraft 2 would of been released over a year ago. D3 is in a similar situation.
Compare Starcraft2 to Dow2, or more to the point Blizzard to Relic, the first DoW game and Company of heroes were among he best RTS games, but then look at the last CoH expansion and DoW2, both rush jobs, yet we are still waiting for the king of the RTS starcraft2 11 years since Starcraft1.
Very well stated. I feel as if you read my mind sir! Reading this brought back my 3 years of 40-80 hours a week memories of this once great juggernaut of a game. I concur that after BC was released the game started a slide downhill. I miss ony raids and BWL even to this day sometimes. Back when the game was a challenge. Even AQ made my butt pucker. I agree 100% about the pvp xserver bgs that you mentioned. Arena was the premier way to pvp and at the time as a hunter when I quit I refused to go beast mastery for raiding or pvp. That was my nail in the coffin for my pre bc warlord toon. Well spoken 100% agree.
Sorry but WOtLK is MILES above the original WOW raids and boss tactics. You didn't have siege and mounted combat tanks either.
Nor the scaling, nor the phasing, not the world designs can touch WotlK;
And Blizzard certainly doesn't need to take lessons from the spank/tank of boring grinding gear games like FF.
The advancements of guilds clearly shows only few guilds can down the final bosses in the hardest content matches.
want proof ? : look at statistics before talking plain and utterly lies about MY game.
4 guilds could achivee the latest challeging content: http://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/3812/rating/eu
Again Wow haters caught with simple proof. And this IS a game, played by millions, and only a handful excel.
The rest is publishing vomit and garbage on the single most succesfull game ever launched.
Stats always beat the WOw haters. http://www.wowprogress.com/
And in true WoW standards, that content will be on farm by every pug out there in 6 months time. That too is a simple truth of WoW's challenging content.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Most of BC pre-nerfs was hard, harder than EQ or FF11(yeah really, this is a fact). M'uru was the hardest encounter even done in a MMO. But by hard it doesn't mean tank-and-spank bosses that last 10 hours, but my making each player in a 25 man raid to use around 15 abilties, macros and move properly at the correct time while still syncing with all the other 24 players to defeat the boss.
While WOTLK is cattering to casuals and sometimes, retards, there were hard bosses such as Algalon 25, Yogg Saron 25 with 0 keepers and Anub'arak 25 on heroic mode. I 3/4 agree about WOTLK being too easy because it has very few hard bosses, but to say BC and Naxx/AQ40 was easy, then you never played WoW and you have no right to comment, since you probably took your fast from bandwagoon threads on random forums.
And lol Kaocan, even with Icecrown gear, people won't be able to pug OS 25 with 3 drakes up since it still takes a lot of coordonation to pull of. Have a clue about how WoW works please.
What are you smoking with your edited comment Zorn?
WoW is certainly not the first game to introduce titles and achievements as a reward system. In addition WoW is still very much a gear oriented game. I think your last comment is way off base.
There were not many hardcore progression guilds in the early days of vanilla. The reason why it took so long to kill Rag and Ony was because the game sucked back then. Most of the talent trees were horrible or broken and the gear itemisation was atrocious. Spirit on Warrior gear?! Spell Power on Hunter gear?!
As the talent trees got fixed and itemisation got better people started progressing faster.
Also, I'd rather have boss encounters that are actually hard and not rely on some insane gimmik or take hours and hours.
Lets stop right there shall we. Tons of games out there have had achievement and title awards for YEARS. City of Hero players have been getting/using them since 2004. Warhammer had the Book of Knowledge in Sept 2008, and Blizzard didnt' put it into WoW until Oct 2008. Blizzard did nothing more than steal yet another idea from someone else and make it part of WoW.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
The OP is burned out of WoW, the game is definitely not a fail. It's ridiculous to associate the world "fail" with "5 years played", really.
On the other hand, the talk about WoW raiding (which I did a lot and on the highest level possible on my server) got me thinking. Some people like to compare the complexity of the WoW encounters with whatever the competition is offering out there. Thing is, how far would any guild go towards these encounters if all they had to was the default interface? Other games out there do not allow modifications of the base interface, so you only have that to work with very limited information given. Imagine a fight where your thread knowledge is only by feeling, where you have the default raid interface for healing, no proximity warnings or other such systems, no boss encounter timers and so on. I believe that I'm describing a completely different game, don't I?
Will never work with how WoW bosses are designed.
So you choose to pre-judge someone, even before they've said anything, based on your feelings about the community they come from?
Odd - that's the exact same elitist attitude that several people in this thread have complained is one of the problems with the wow community !
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
That is true. Blizzard has been designing encounters, not by what their default interface can do, but what the mods provided can do. That was true since vanilla WoW (decursive a very influential addon) and its true up to this day.
My point was that if Blizzard was designing their content with just their default UI in mind, the fights would have to be a lot simpler than what they are. You really can't do high end raiding without addons in WOW. On the other hand, the other MMO makers do design their content keeping always in mind the limitations of their default UI.
Which is the right approach, is hard to tell objectively.
You realize MMOs are a business, right?
This is both good and bad. It is good because due to free market economy it will deliver what most players actually want in a game, and avoid the features most players don't want. This is bad because most players aren't most players.
Moved - posted in the wrong thread.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Well that's pretty stupid of you, isn't it? Get a clue please. Don't hate what you don't know, that's called prejudice.
Correct. try healing in a BG without healbot or some other tool ... it is a mess.
At the same time doing Arenas WITH healbot is a mess too.
But ... I play all content without other add-ons. So it IS possible (well for the average raiding guild I am in boss 11 Ulduar). No DBM for me. Always nice to know the GM in RL
.
I deleted questhelper for good in Northrend: the game was far better (yes even more better
) ) without quest helper.
An anecdote: (not even a quest related one but it shows)....
A week ago I searched for 2 hours for the WSG vendor at level 18 with my BE hunter (seldom play Horde). I knew it was around the Ashenvale area but I simply ran into level 22 rogue mobs 20 times. After 2 hours I gave in and searched on thottbot. I needed to go to the frontier and not cross the Ashenvale border It is frustrating but it shows the game can be played otherwise.
Played this game for 4 years now and still playing content I didn't encounter when going Horde ....
People should throw away questhelper and READ the quests. Much more fun.
The problem is ... what do you do with the faction reputations? You still need to read websites for these.
And playing without DBM IS possible.
I don't heal arenas or PvE with healbot and still top the meters. All you really need are solid raid frames and mouse-over macros for your top spells.There are actually useful addons out there, like DBM, which makes things much easier. Healbot is just meh to me, I don't understand why many healers claim its a must.
The truth is, you can play the end-game raid content without addons. I don't know why people think they are a must. My guild has had to play without addons quite a few times because of new patch incompatibility issues, and always without any problems.
This ^^
Nice read, and I know your pain.
Money talks, BS walks.
-You got bored playing wow for years, so now millions of other people must be bored too
-Millions of people cannot handle the "challenge" of other mmos, because they is so hard!
-Wow is for kids and apparently no adults enjoy the game
-Wow is to blame for all games in the genre, because "the wow mentality" is spilling over into other games and somehow making them release in a condition that does not attract players.
Please let me know if I missed anything.
Here I was all this time thinking that wow was so successful, because it is an extremely well made game in a market that is filled with utter shit that is rushed to market by companies that want to get rich quick, but lack the ability to make a decent product that will attract more than a handful of people.
Thankfully we have a few people who got bored of warcraft, found out how lacking the competition is and have accurately pinned blame on blizzard for the way things are in the entire market!
I'm sorry that you are bored with one game and the reality of the rest of the market has caught your attention. However that is not the fault of blizzard. I am sorry that the entire mmo market is so fucking weak that one game can absolutely dominate everything. I am sorry that not one other company has stepped up to the challenge to compete with wow to force companies to fight for our subscription dollars by creating the best games possible. I am sorry the market is filled with so many disspointments.
I agree that blizzard could do a lot of things better (not to the QQ degree that most here thing), but where is the competition to make that happen? Even without a single company threatening their position, blizzard is doing a pretty damn good job updating and expanding the game. What you may not like, millions of others do.