Originally posted by MMO_Doubter Yup. Tons of can't = lots of won't. Are all the MMO devs in competition to see who can screw up an IP the worst? Because it's clear they aren't trying to do them justice.
This is how I feel. I think the worst thing of them all in STO is that there is no interior. I mean, if you have so many classes of ships, and only so much customization, you really do not have to create hundreds of interior locations. Think of it like player housing: if you create interiors for one type of ship, everyone that plays that class of ship can see the inside of the ship.
The vast majority of of the shows take place aboardship...and we have no ability to see the aboard ship. That would stop me from playing all by itself. Lazy idiots. How hard is it to do something like interiors?!!!!
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
It's SWG not SGW.......and you can't post things just to be cool....you have to know what you are talking about....
on both points....you fail
You REALLY have to be careful when you call someone on a mistake - lest you show yourself as a fool.
SGW = Stargate: Worlds
You know, I was just thinking before you posted this... Developers should just stay away from those 3 initials, in any order.
I'm just waiting for a F2P overhyped sandbox WoW clone with full PVP, epic raid bosses, instanced group content, and Crysis-quality graphics to come out. That, or something fun.
Interesting that you bring up SWG, cause I'm a gona reference it, yes I am. First off let me say I hated SWG cause it was buggy, no real direction and SOE used the nerf bat to much. Yet it does prove that people are of different tastes when it comes to a game and not everyone is combat orientated. So let me sum up what I mean here with respect to the OP and what they were thinking.
To all you people out there saying how do you make multi people on a ship fun, I have to really wonder if you craft at all, this is not an insult just a wonder.
See engineering is for those people who that is all they like to do, crafting, mixing and matching things to see what they make and so on. That is what engineers would do on ship in combat, mix different things in a crafting station then run them over and slot them into the ship to see if it makes things better or worse, generally healing the ship . On away missions they would repair broken things to get data files and get temp pets for the crew and so on.
Medical would fall into two parts Combat Medic, and Medical Researcher. Both are healers, in space combat running around the ship healing the wounded to restore the number of npc's manning the ship and keeping the ships crew healthy and the numbers up should your shields fail and you get borded. On away missions the Combat medic is a fighter and a healer, the Medical Researcher is a healer and a harvester collecting things to use to make better healing stims.
Science Officer would function as space battle CC and Debuff, using sensors and other ships functions to make sensor ghosts to distract other ships, and find weak points in their shields, aid in targeting vital areas.
Security is your straight up combat toon. On ship he would control the percision weapons probably a torpedo launcher. Front line fighter on the away teams.
Captain comes from any class, flys the ship in third pearson during combat, controls most of the larger ships functions. On away teams serves the role of their class plus works as a buffing class.
That is how you make it all fun, but that is just my opinion and all that only works if you have interiors to the ships. Now I know a lot of people don't like depending on others to help them out, for those there are smaller ships to captain like the Defiant from DS9, heavy hitting little crafts that don't need a full player crew. Then for the people who play together all the time there would be the bigger ships that needed a full crew there to purchase them like a guild charter.
As to people saying it doesn't need to serve the fans, any company that buys an IP needs to be true to the spirit of that IP and provide what is expected for that IP, or you end up with something like that American made Godzilla movie. A Product that is that IP in nothing other than name and is made to take peoples money and provide them with something other than what they were expecting. It's become an all to familer trend in mmo's and it needs to stop. If we stopped buying games for what they say they may have later, and make them sell us on what they will have companies will work harder to please the players.
LOL.........the basic absence of any 3d movement in a space MMO is rediculous as any good space RTS game has this.
I forsee not a lot of people playing this.
An RPG is not an RTS.
Would STO be better off as an MMORTS or an RPG/RTS hybrid? Probably, but games are made so they appeal to the widest audience possible. Which is why WoW doesn't have any real RTS elements.
LOL.........the basic absence of any 3d movement in a space MMO is rediculous as any good space RTS game has this.
I forsee not a lot of people playing this.
An RPG is not an RTS.
Would STO be better off as an MMORTS or an RPG/RTS hybrid? Probably, but games are made so they appeal to the widest audience possible. Which is why WoW doesn't have any real RTS elements.
Don't start correcting stuff....you'll get into trouble from Doubter
and Gd...I lol'd
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Hopefully after release sometime, they will have some sort of free trial like many MMOs have. That way people can actually test these things out and see how well they like them in the way they are implemented.
There are things I would LOVE to see in the game. There are things currently planned for the game that I personally dislike. Will that stop me from trying? No. I will give it a shot, and the things I dislike may actually improve the gameplay for me overall. I really do not know until I try it for sure.
Besides... you guys are probably making developers foam at the mouth with expansion possibilities as is. Stop feeding the beast. >.>
Besides... you guys are probably making developers foam at the mouth with expansion possibilities as is. Stop feeding the beast. >.>
If they take ideas from here to make the game better, I am quite happy to see it. I am in favour of all games improving, as it provides more opportunities for fun for us all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Would it not be better if Bob captained a Science Vessel to accompany your Cruiser on a mission rather than Bob just messing with control panels inside your ship. I bet he feels more heroic contributing from his very own ship where he can still be an Engineer.
You, as a Captain, can choose to be an Engineer/Tactical/Science specialist. Voyager was one of my favorite Star Trek series and there were many times when Captain Janeway would go do engineering work because she was a scientist and engineer as well as Captain. When there's a battle on, she is on the bridge giving orders, while Torres is carrying them out. Fan - "What about my freind Bob, we played the FASA rpg...and he liked to play the Captain and I liked playing the Engineer. If I have to be Captain what does he play aboard our ship?" Cryptic - "You can't play aboard the same ship with Bob, every ship is crewed by only a single player who MUST be Captain...all other positions MUST be filled by NPC's". People are saying this pretty generically all over when the truth is you cannot support a system where a player HAS to rely on others for advantages. Yes, actually, you can. Especially since absent crew can be subbed for by NPCs. No IP for an MMO (that I have seen) calls for grouping as much as this one does. There would be one man vessels, as well as starships. A range of sizes. If you want to solo, take a shuttle planetside for some missions. It's been stated that they plan to create interiors where you can meet other players. Like Ten Forward. Devspeak. It is a standard line to claim that desired content and features will be added 'some day'. If and when player crews are implemented, I would consider playing the game. Though, I suspect the cash shop would be a deal-breaker.
When was the last time you really saw the starships doing loops consistently through any of the series? Star Trek is about Naval combat in space.
Stop right there. That claim shows you do not know Trek at all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
But that is correct. Star Trek ship to ship combat has, for the most part, been about slow paced tactical decisions ala Naval Combat.
There have been a few ships that have had the more "dog fight" feel to them such as birds or prey, defiant class vessels, and other smaller ships, but they are FAR more similar too light cruisers than they are to fighters.
However, many small vessels such as shuttles, runabouts, and even the reman fighters as shown in Nemesis do exist in canon Star Trek. And I remember at least one battle where "Fighter Wings" is given an order in DS9. So, to say dogfights NEVER exist in Star Trek might not be completely correct. Simply since we've never got the chance to see any, doesn't mean they do not exist, especially given the evidence the ships that'd be used for them do exist.
Would I like a game where I can be a crew member rather than the COMMANDING OFFICER (this is the correct term to use)? Yes, yes I would? And I would play it too. Would I like a game where I am the commanding officer? yes, yes I would. And I would play it too.
So it's pretty much like 1/4 solely want to be able to be crew members. 1/4 solely want to be commanding officers, and 1/2 would go either way. So making EITHER game would be just as good as the other. No matter which one they chose, one side would be upset.
Sure, it'd be really cool for player guilds to run a starship. However, that;d mean that too few people would EVER be able to command a starship and be stuck to lowly shuttles. Unless the allow for NPC crew, then the practicality of a guild choosing to stay on one ship, when they can have several more the achieve their goals, changes the game. Then you'd have just a few players as crew members, quite few, and it'd have to be a major addition to the game just for a small group of people.
Don't get me wrong guys. I am totally with you on wanting player crews, and would really like it if they spent the time to make it posible in this game, even if it costed a few extra bucks for the base game (Given sub fees these days, not sure how much extra I can take there he he). But sometimes you just gotta think about what really we can fit in at this point in time.
I won't say STO won't be a good or fun video game, but I do have a hard time seeing it be a successful Star Trek MMO. It will have a spectacular launch, no doubt, but based on the info avail, it seems like it won't have the features I'd want in an MMO, necessary to keep it engaging longer than a couple of weeks.
I remember when EQ had 100K players WAAAYYY back in the dayy and it was seen as a massive milestone. At that point they had way more than enough subs to coontinuely pump out expansion after expansion. And to this day, EQ still exists with over a dozen expansions.
If by Succeed you mean blow WoW out of the water, become a household product like the common spoon, and keep people on for more than 25 hours a day? Then no. Probably not.
For a MMO to succeed, all that needs to be done is to simple keep enough subs to cover a tiny bit more than maintainance costs, which is very easily done these days, given the emerging MMO market.
But that is correct. Star Trek ship to ship combat has, for the most part, been about slow paced tactical decisions ala Naval Combat. While that might well be what he meant, I was responding to what he wrote. Star Trek is not about naval combat in space. That is a minor aspect of the IP. There have been a few ships that have had the more "dog fight" feel to them such as birds or prey, defiant class vessels, and other smaller ships, but they are FAR more similar too light cruisers than they are to fighters. However, many small vessels such as shuttles, runabouts, and even the reman fighters as shown in Nemesis do exist in canon Star Trek. And I remember at least one battle where "Fighter Wings" is given an order in DS9. So, to say dogfights NEVER exist in Star Trek might not be completely correct. Simply since we've never got the chance to see any, doesn't mean they do not exist, especially given the evidence the ships that'd be used for them do exist. Would I like a game where I can be a crew member rather than the COMMANDING OFFICER (this is the correct term to use)? Yes, yes I would? And I would play it too. Would I like a game where I am the commanding officer? yes, yes I would. And I would play it too. So it's pretty much like 1/4 solely want to be able to be crew members. 1/4 solely want to be commanding officers, and 1/2 would go either way. So making EITHER game would be just as good as the other. No matter which one they chose, one side would be upset. I don't think anyone in favour of player crews has stated they don't want the option to be the captain. We want both options. Be the captain or be a crew member. Sure, it'd be really cool for player guilds to run a starship. However, that'd mean that too few people would EVER be able to command a starship and be stuck to lowly shuttles. Once you acquire a certain level, you can apply for your own command. In effect, becoming leader of a new guild. Unless the allow for NPC crew, then the practicality of a guild choosing to stay on one ship, when they can have several more the achieve their goals, changes the game. Then you'd have just a few players as crew members, quite few, and it'd have to be a major addition to the game just for a small group of people. When a crew member leaves the ship for his own command, that opens up a slot for another player to join the crew. Don't get me wrong guys. I am totally with you on wanting player crews, and would really like it if they spent the time to make it posible in this game, even if it costed a few extra bucks for the base game (Given sub fees these days, not sure how much extra I can take there he he). But sometimes you just gotta think about what really we can fit in at this point in time.
Well, NCSoft just stated that they will be taking Game Guard out of Aion for release. Very few people thought that would happen. Things can change.
I agree that it's probably too late for STO to be worthwhile (my term, not yours), but these ideas could be used in another space game, as well.
I'd rather it be a Trek game, because the IP has so much material for content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
1) I mentioned WOW not because I think WOW is a failure (that would be a totaly idiotic statement). I mentioned it because trying to shoe-horn a genre that is vastly different from WOW's into using similar mechanics IS a recipie for failure (IMO). I honestly think WOW is a great game.... and part of the reason it is a great game is because it DOES deliver an experience that fits the setting it is placed in and DOES meet the fans expectations of it.
2) There are PLENTY of ways to make the other key officers aboard a ship have fun things to do. If you look at what characters like Spock, Scotty, McCoy, etc do in the series it's NOT just standing around all day pressing 1 key on a console. Now if you were talking about the Transporter Room guy.... you'd have a point.... tough to make a game experience out of that alone. However the Senior Officers (Dept. Heads) aboard a capital ship have ALOT of things they do.... heck sometimes they even do command the ship when the Captain is not available. If you really want...I could provide details of what each of those positions could do that would make for a full game experience....I've done it 2 or 3 times before in other threads.
3) I don't think STO will "fail" in terms of not making enough money to cover basic server hosting costs. A game has to do really, really poorly in order to reach that point. I DO however think it will fail to meet many fans expectations....and probably will fail to meet the developers expectations in terms of Return On Investment for such a large and well established IP. I don't know any of the details of Cryptics deal.... but typicaly there is a pretty hefty price tag that goes along with acquiring an IP like Star Trek. Games that use well established IP's typical need to draw MUCH bigger audiences to be "successfull" ventures..... because there tend to be alot of costs sunk into acquiring and maintaining the IP.... and the expectations of investors when plunking money into those projects also tend to be much higher.
I don't think it'll close it's doors.....but I do suspect it'll have alot of investors saying "Well we're not going to do that again". Though the lesson will be short lived....and I'm sure a couple years down the road will see investors repeating the exact same mistakes all over again.
4) Ultimately, I didn't write this thread because I expected Cryptic to read it and make any significant changes...that'd be stupid. I wrote it because gaming is a hobby of mine....and it's interesting for me to discuss the various decisions that goes into making a games design. It's pretty clear that STO isn't the type of game that will meet MY expectations....and therefore I won't play. Contrary to what many posters might think.....I'm perfectly FINE with that. There is no shortage of games out there too be played.... and won't be any shortage in future......although the TYPE of games I like to play are a little less represented then I would like. This isn't a whine fest it's an intellectual discussion.
I'm not real interested in STO because I've already learned a fair amount of what the game will be like by listening to the discussions of mechanics and game design that the DEV's have made. This game ISN'T FOR ME.... although I'm sure the marketing spin-meisters will try to convince me otherwise. That's ok...not every game has to be.... doesn't mean it can't be interesting to talk about anyways. Heck....if something radicaly changes with the game in future....I MAY even give it a try...IF they offer a FREE TRIAL.
With their decision to require everyone be a captain, they're limiting themselves to people that play MMOs already.
Take a look at the target audience. The latest Star Trek movie was very popular, but the young crowd is full of LoTR, Harry Potter and Star Wars fans (and vampires too now I suppose). Star Trek HAD its heyday, way back when they had like five different shows all on primetime at the same time. So, subscriptions are going to come from pulling people away from their respective favorite games with a damn good answer to 'Why should I leave?' OR, they have to pull from people who've never played before and that requires catering to a lot more than people that just want to shoot stuff.
Best way I can describe it is this ... People go to a Star Trek convention to see Star Trek stuff, not watch an MMA fight. Sure, it's probably easier to set up an MMA fight (pull two guys from a gym and give them gloves) and put a Star Trek banner over the building. But what are people going to do when they get inside?
Best way I can describe it is this ... People go to a Star Trek convention to see Star Trek stuff, not watch an MMA fight. Sure, it's probably easier to set up an MMA fight (pull two guys from a gym and give them gloves) and put a Star Trek banner over the building. But what are people going to do when they get inside? Leave.
Great Analogy! I was thinking something similar.
I just don't think Cryptic was a good choice to develop this game. They have their own little style of MMO that they know how to make and they aren't willing to think much beyond that.
I figure that when Cryptic got the rights to this game from Perpetual there was a meeting in the board room which went something like this:
*It is a dark and stormy night. Lightning flashes as the camera zooms in on an evil looking office building...*
Ordinary Executive: "Gentlemen! We have acquired the rights to develop a Star Trek MMO! Before us another developer named Perpetual had the rights to make this game and they already have a pretty detailed outline for the design of the game. We can make the game they were working on but it will take many years, a huge budget and we will need to create an engine for the game to use..."
Sinister Executive: " OR!... huh, huh, huh... get this: We DON'T do any of that stuff. Instead we just take the same cartoony game engine we used to make Champions Online, slap an outer space skin on it and call it a Star Trek game! We can probably get it done in just a few years and we only need to hire a handfull of guys to alter the graphics a bit and make up some quests for the players to kill Andorian Boars and return 10 snouts to some random NPC or whatever. By the time the players figure out we just developed another WoW clone we will have already taken their money and run away over the nearest hill with it! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Cryptic CEO: "Yeah, lets go with that second thing you guys said. The one where we don't do a lot of work or spend much money. That sounds good."
Sinister Executive: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Cryptic CEO: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Ordinary Executive: "Why are you guys laughing in a evil tone like that?"
Atari Executive: "And we will put SecuROM in the game too! HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Ordinary Executive: "Where did this Atari guy come from? Why is HE laguhing like that now too?"
Sinister Executive: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Cryptic CEO: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Ordinary Executive: "Alright, thats enough of this, I'm outta here. Enjoy laughing about some crappy MMO you are going to make."
Microsoft Executive: *Runs into room out of breath* "Sorry I'm late guys! Okay, so we are porting this thing to Xbox too, right?"
Comments
You REALLY have to be careful when you call someone on a mistake - lest you show yourself as a fool.
SGW = Stargate: Worlds
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You REALLY have to be careful when you call someone on a mistake - lest you show yourself as a fool.
SGW = Stargate: Worlds
Really?
Cause...last I saw...SGW never hit the market....
But SWG did....
So you tell me....which was the stupid MMO fail? Either way....I stand to what I said
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
This is how I feel. I think the worst thing of them all in STO is that there is no interior. I mean, if you have so many classes of ships, and only so much customization, you really do not have to create hundreds of interior locations. Think of it like player housing: if you create interiors for one type of ship, everyone that plays that class of ship can see the inside of the ship.
The vast majority of of the shows take place aboardship...and we have no ability to see the aboard ship. That would stop me from playing all by itself. Lazy idiots. How hard is it to do something like interiors?!!!!
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
You REALLY have to be careful when you call someone on a mistake - lest you show yourself as a fool.
SGW = Stargate: Worlds
You know, I was just thinking before you posted this... Developers should just stay away from those 3 initials, in any order.
I'm just waiting for a F2P overhyped sandbox WoW clone with full PVP, epic raid bosses, instanced group content, and Crysis-quality graphics to come out. That, or something fun.
You REALLY have to be careful when you call someone on a mistake - lest you show yourself as a fool.
SGW = Stargate: Worlds
You know, I was just thinking before you posted this... Developers should just stay away from those 3 initials, in any order.
lol...I was thinking the same
+1 to you
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
And before you developers make a new game.....
GWS or GSW or WSG wont work either...
so stop
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Well, hell! So much for my plans to publish `When Gods Strike` and the follow-up `Gods Slay Worlds`!
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Stand to whatever you please. You were wrong, and now you show yourself too petty to admit it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
lol....I was hoping for "Goblins World Srsly"!!
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Stand to whatever you please. You were wrong, and now you show yourself too petty to admit it.
lol...you post this...but I'm petty
Mkay....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Interesting that you bring up SWG, cause I'm a gona reference it, yes I am. First off let me say I hated SWG cause it was buggy, no real direction and SOE used the nerf bat to much. Yet it does prove that people are of different tastes when it comes to a game and not everyone is combat orientated. So let me sum up what I mean here with respect to the OP and what they were thinking.
To all you people out there saying how do you make multi people on a ship fun, I have to really wonder if you craft at all, this is not an insult just a wonder.
See engineering is for those people who that is all they like to do, crafting, mixing and matching things to see what they make and so on. That is what engineers would do on ship in combat, mix different things in a crafting station then run them over and slot them into the ship to see if it makes things better or worse, generally healing the ship . On away missions they would repair broken things to get data files and get temp pets for the crew and so on.
Medical would fall into two parts Combat Medic, and Medical Researcher. Both are healers, in space combat running around the ship healing the wounded to restore the number of npc's manning the ship and keeping the ships crew healthy and the numbers up should your shields fail and you get borded. On away missions the Combat medic is a fighter and a healer, the Medical Researcher is a healer and a harvester collecting things to use to make better healing stims.
Science Officer would function as space battle CC and Debuff, using sensors and other ships functions to make sensor ghosts to distract other ships, and find weak points in their shields, aid in targeting vital areas.
Security is your straight up combat toon. On ship he would control the percision weapons probably a torpedo launcher. Front line fighter on the away teams.
Captain comes from any class, flys the ship in third pearson during combat, controls most of the larger ships functions. On away teams serves the role of their class plus works as a buffing class.
That is how you make it all fun, but that is just my opinion and all that only works if you have interiors to the ships. Now I know a lot of people don't like depending on others to help them out, for those there are smaller ships to captain like the Defiant from DS9, heavy hitting little crafts that don't need a full player crew. Then for the people who play together all the time there would be the bigger ships that needed a full crew there to purchase them like a guild charter.
As to people saying it doesn't need to serve the fans, any company that buys an IP needs to be true to the spirit of that IP and provide what is expected for that IP, or you end up with something like that American made Godzilla movie. A Product that is that IP in nothing other than name and is made to take peoples money and provide them with something other than what they were expecting. It's become an all to familer trend in mmo's and it needs to stop. If we stopped buying games for what they say they may have later, and make them sell us on what they will have companies will work harder to please the players.
You know...there will be always more 'you can't' than 'you can' so I think 'you can't' make a point with this thread...
An RPG is not an RTS.
Would STO be better off as an MMORTS or an RPG/RTS hybrid? Probably, but games are made so they appeal to the widest audience possible. Which is why WoW doesn't have any real RTS elements.
Interesting that in slamming the game you mention WOW, a hugely successful game that many naysayers here hate because of the things they "can't" do.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
An RPG is not an RTS.
Would STO be better off as an MMORTS or an RPG/RTS hybrid? Probably, but games are made so they appeal to the widest audience possible. Which is why WoW doesn't have any real RTS elements.
Don't start correcting stuff....you'll get into trouble from Doubter
and Gd...I lol'd
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Hopefully after release sometime, they will have some sort of free trial like many MMOs have. That way people can actually test these things out and see how well they like them in the way they are implemented.
There are things I would LOVE to see in the game. There are things currently planned for the game that I personally dislike. Will that stop me from trying? No. I will give it a shot, and the things I dislike may actually improve the gameplay for me overall. I really do not know until I try it for sure.
Besides... you guys are probably making developers foam at the mouth with expansion possibilities as is. Stop feeding the beast. >.>
If they take ideas from here to make the game better, I am quite happy to see it. I am in favour of all games improving, as it provides more opportunities for fun for us all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Stop right there. That claim shows you do not know Trek at all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
But that is correct. Star Trek ship to ship combat has, for the most part, been about slow paced tactical decisions ala Naval Combat.
There have been a few ships that have had the more "dog fight" feel to them such as birds or prey, defiant class vessels, and other smaller ships, but they are FAR more similar too light cruisers than they are to fighters.
However, many small vessels such as shuttles, runabouts, and even the reman fighters as shown in Nemesis do exist in canon Star Trek. And I remember at least one battle where "Fighter Wings" is given an order in DS9. So, to say dogfights NEVER exist in Star Trek might not be completely correct. Simply since we've never got the chance to see any, doesn't mean they do not exist, especially given the evidence the ships that'd be used for them do exist.
Would I like a game where I can be a crew member rather than the COMMANDING OFFICER (this is the correct term to use)? Yes, yes I would? And I would play it too. Would I like a game where I am the commanding officer? yes, yes I would. And I would play it too.
So it's pretty much like 1/4 solely want to be able to be crew members. 1/4 solely want to be commanding officers, and 1/2 would go either way. So making EITHER game would be just as good as the other. No matter which one they chose, one side would be upset.
Sure, it'd be really cool for player guilds to run a starship. However, that;d mean that too few people would EVER be able to command a starship and be stuck to lowly shuttles. Unless the allow for NPC crew, then the practicality of a guild choosing to stay on one ship, when they can have several more the achieve their goals, changes the game. Then you'd have just a few players as crew members, quite few, and it'd have to be a major addition to the game just for a small group of people.
Don't get me wrong guys. I am totally with you on wanting player crews, and would really like it if they spent the time to make it posible in this game, even if it costed a few extra bucks for the base game (Given sub fees these days, not sure how much extra I can take there he he). But sometimes you just gotta think about what really we can fit in at this point in time.
I won't say STO won't be a good or fun video game, but I do have a hard time seeing it be a successful Star Trek MMO. It will have a spectacular launch, no doubt, but based on the info avail, it seems like it won't have the features I'd want in an MMO, necessary to keep it engaging longer than a couple of weeks.
Define Successful.
I remember when EQ had 100K players WAAAYYY back in the dayy and it was seen as a massive milestone. At that point they had way more than enough subs to coontinuely pump out expansion after expansion. And to this day, EQ still exists with over a dozen expansions.
If by Succeed you mean blow WoW out of the water, become a household product like the common spoon, and keep people on for more than 25 hours a day? Then no. Probably not.
For a MMO to succeed, all that needs to be done is to simple keep enough subs to cover a tiny bit more than maintainance costs, which is very easily done these days, given the emerging MMO market.
Well, NCSoft just stated that they will be taking Game Guard out of Aion for release. Very few people thought that would happen. Things can change.
I agree that it's probably too late for STO to be worthwhile (my term, not yours), but these ideas could be used in another space game, as well.
I'd rather it be a Trek game, because the IP has so much material for content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Responses....
1) I mentioned WOW not because I think WOW is a failure (that would be a totaly idiotic statement). I mentioned it because trying to shoe-horn a genre that is vastly different from WOW's into using similar mechanics IS a recipie for failure (IMO). I honestly think WOW is a great game.... and part of the reason it is a great game is because it DOES deliver an experience that fits the setting it is placed in and DOES meet the fans expectations of it.
2) There are PLENTY of ways to make the other key officers aboard a ship have fun things to do. If you look at what characters like Spock, Scotty, McCoy, etc do in the series it's NOT just standing around all day pressing 1 key on a console. Now if you were talking about the Transporter Room guy.... you'd have a point.... tough to make a game experience out of that alone. However the Senior Officers (Dept. Heads) aboard a capital ship have ALOT of things they do.... heck sometimes they even do command the ship when the Captain is not available. If you really want...I could provide details of what each of those positions could do that would make for a full game experience....I've done it 2 or 3 times before in other threads.
3) I don't think STO will "fail" in terms of not making enough money to cover basic server hosting costs. A game has to do really, really poorly in order to reach that point. I DO however think it will fail to meet many fans expectations....and probably will fail to meet the developers expectations in terms of Return On Investment for such a large and well established IP. I don't know any of the details of Cryptics deal.... but typicaly there is a pretty hefty price tag that goes along with acquiring an IP like Star Trek. Games that use well established IP's typical need to draw MUCH bigger audiences to be "successfull" ventures..... because there tend to be alot of costs sunk into acquiring and maintaining the IP.... and the expectations of investors when plunking money into those projects also tend to be much higher.
I don't think it'll close it's doors.....but I do suspect it'll have alot of investors saying "Well we're not going to do that again". Though the lesson will be short lived....and I'm sure a couple years down the road will see investors repeating the exact same mistakes all over again.
4) Ultimately, I didn't write this thread because I expected Cryptic to read it and make any significant changes...that'd be stupid. I wrote it because gaming is a hobby of mine....and it's interesting for me to discuss the various decisions that goes into making a games design. It's pretty clear that STO isn't the type of game that will meet MY expectations....and therefore I won't play. Contrary to what many posters might think.....I'm perfectly FINE with that. There is no shortage of games out there too be played.... and won't be any shortage in future......although the TYPE of games I like to play are a little less represented then I would like. This isn't a whine fest it's an intellectual discussion.
I'm not real interested in STO because I've already learned a fair amount of what the game will be like by listening to the discussions of mechanics and game design that the DEV's have made. This game ISN'T FOR ME.... although I'm sure the marketing spin-meisters will try to convince me otherwise. That's ok...not every game has to be.... doesn't mean it can't be interesting to talk about anyways. Heck....if something radicaly changes with the game in future....I MAY even give it a try...IF they offer a FREE TRIAL.
To me, it boils down to opportunity ...
With their decision to require everyone be a captain, they're limiting themselves to people that play MMOs already.
Take a look at the target audience. The latest Star Trek movie was very popular, but the young crowd is full of LoTR, Harry Potter and Star Wars fans (and vampires too now I suppose). Star Trek HAD its heyday, way back when they had like five different shows all on primetime at the same time. So, subscriptions are going to come from pulling people away from their respective favorite games with a damn good answer to 'Why should I leave?' OR, they have to pull from people who've never played before and that requires catering to a lot more than people that just want to shoot stuff.
Best way I can describe it is this ... People go to a Star Trek convention to see Star Trek stuff, not watch an MMA fight. Sure, it's probably easier to set up an MMA fight (pull two guys from a gym and give them gloves) and put a Star Trek banner over the building. But what are people going to do when they get inside?
Leave.
Great Analogy! I was thinking something similar.
I just don't think Cryptic was a good choice to develop this game. They have their own little style of MMO that they know how to make and they aren't willing to think much beyond that.
I figure that when Cryptic got the rights to this game from Perpetual there was a meeting in the board room which went something like this:
*It is a dark and stormy night. Lightning flashes as the camera zooms in on an evil looking office building...*
Ordinary Executive: "Gentlemen! We have acquired the rights to develop a Star Trek MMO! Before us another developer named Perpetual had the rights to make this game and they already have a pretty detailed outline for the design of the game. We can make the game they were working on but it will take many years, a huge budget and we will need to create an engine for the game to use..."
Sinister Executive: " OR!... huh, huh, huh... get this: We DON'T do any of that stuff. Instead we just take the same cartoony game engine we used to make Champions Online, slap an outer space skin on it and call it a Star Trek game! We can probably get it done in just a few years and we only need to hire a handfull of guys to alter the graphics a bit and make up some quests for the players to kill Andorian Boars and return 10 snouts to some random NPC or whatever. By the time the players figure out we just developed another WoW clone we will have already taken their money and run away over the nearest hill with it! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Cryptic CEO: "Yeah, lets go with that second thing you guys said. The one where we don't do a lot of work or spend much money. That sounds good."
Sinister Executive: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Cryptic CEO: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Ordinary Executive: "Why are you guys laughing in a evil tone like that?"
Atari Executive: "And we will put SecuROM in the game too! HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Ordinary Executive: "Where did this Atari guy come from? Why is HE laguhing like that now too?"
Sinister Executive: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Cryptic CEO: "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
Ordinary Executive: "Alright, thats enough of this, I'm outta here. Enjoy laughing about some crappy MMO you are going to make."
Microsoft Executive: *Runs into room out of breath* "Sorry I'm late guys! Okay, so we are porting this thing to Xbox too, right?"
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields