2009: The age of starved mmorpg players

nanoviper

It's been 10 years since the release of Ultima: Online, back in good old 2009 we would have thought that by now games would be on such a level classics like Ultima, Asherons Call, and Everquest, would pale in comparison. However it is now 2009, and most gamers who have played MMO's for any period of time would agree that nothing on the market today can even live up to these original releases.

       Nostalgia aside, when critically examining these games, it appears as though with each new release the games are being dumbed down; It reminds me alot of the Mike Judge movie: Idiocracy where overtime people became dumber and dumber as technology allowed them more and more luxeries. 

       What I have been wondering is why no games with depth and challenge have been introduced to the market since 2003; The closest we have come is darkfall (don't get me started on that tangent) and in many ways I don't even feel as though, it has lived up to it's potential.

     Am I the only one who feels like this? Is that why there are no more deep challenging games on the market? What do you guys think?

grandpagamer

The majority doesnt want deep and challenging. Instant gratification is the rule of thumb. Broken, buggy and with Aion you can add huge server Q's as well is another trend. As long as people keep blindly throwing money at the next big thing to come along it will continue. The video game industry is one of very few where sub-par merchandise is not only accepted but expected.

Cyborg99

Agreed. Thats why sub-par games such as war, aion, etc, are being praised as being good games but in realitly are actaully a step down for mmo's and games in general. The mmo players with higher standards (like myself) are left without and good mmo's to play.

nanoviper

Aion kinda sickens me. I played a friends account while he was out of the country for a few days and in that time I realized just how bad mmo's could get. Aion was a boring grindfest with little to offer aside from it's pvp (which was nothing when compared to games like SWG, DAOC, or UO.  

Gameloading

Originally posted by nanoviper


It's been 10 years since the release of Ultima: Online, back in good old 2009 we would have thought that by now games would be on such a level classics like Ultima, Asherons Call, and Everquest, would pale in comparison. However it is now 2009, and most gamers who have played MMO's for any period of time would agree that nothing on the market today can even live up to these original releases.
       Nostalgia aside, when critically examining these games, it appears as though with each new release the games are being dumbed down; It reminds me alot of the Mike Judge movie: Idiocracy where overtime people became dumber and dumber as technology allowed them more and more luxeries. 
       What I have been wondering is why no games with depth and challenge have been introduced to the market since 2003; The closest we have come is darkfall (don't get me started on that tangent) and in many ways I don't even feel as though, it has lived up to it's potential.
     Am I the only one who feels like this? Is that why there are no more deep challenging games on the market? What do you guys think?

Actually I think most players will agree that not only do mmorpgs released after those games lived up to those games: They exceeded them.

It's not that games are getting dumbed down, it's that needlessly complications that arised in those games have been removed. The vast majority of gamers do not find having your entire inventory looted by a playerkiller of which you had no chance against the in first place an entertaining, nor is losing many hours of progress trying to get to your body in Everquest. That's not depth, thats punishing gameplay that doesn't add anything to the entertain value of the game whatsoever.

Also it's silly to point towards Aion and call it a grind after you called Everquest a classic. Everquest defined grinding.

jcusanoiii

 Yeah idk i never played EQ but its it possible that it was just good for the time because there was nothing like it? if you went back and played it now would it still be fun?

Kyleran

I dunno. While I miss DAOC in its glory days, I am able to find enjoyment in today's games and still can't get around to trying them all.

I'm currently playing EVE and Aion and enjoying both for different reasons.  I don't expect to play either game forever (OK, maybe EVE) nor do I try to make them fit games long since dead.

Sometimes players should try a bit harder to enjoy what games have to offer, instead of what they don't

Find your fun.

 

Cavall

Businesses run on profit; easier, more "main-stream" games with low hardware/software requirements not only tend to generate higher revenues, but cost less to develop and maintain as well. Thus, companies that only make online games must milk that for as much as they can, even if it means repeatedly "dumbing down" the game every few months (Hello, World of Warcraft!)

Established, high-quality companies such as Square Enix tend to aim for quality over quantity, and as a result such devs' games are superior in graphics, sound, storytelling, and gameplay; however, they've had many years to perfect the RPG part of MMORPGs. Here's an easier way to think about the difference" if the servers for  World of Warcraft were to suddenly explode, completely destroying all data and backup data, Blizzard would go out of business within hours, and effectively only Activision would exist in the merged company of Blizzard-Activision. If FFXI's servers were to have the same happen to them, Square Enix would still be able to continue going strong with their games, as they don't rely on that game to keep their company afloat.

In conclusion, profits are what online gaming companies aim for first and foremost, unless they have other sources of steady revenue.

brostyn

No recent MMO has brought me the joy that EQ and DAoC used to bring. I really never found EQ as fun as DAoC, but its way better than the junk we've seen. At least I played that game for 6 straight months without hitting the cancel button. Nowadays I hit the cancel button in one week.

neoterrar

When I play a game I want to have fun. I don't want to wait in a queue for hours. I don't want to wait for a spawn for hours.

People tend to remember the golden era of MMOs like they really happened. Usually it's a bit picked over with some things conveniently lost.

I never played EQ or AC and I played UO for about an hour. That being said, they are not the standard for fun. They may be the standard for what some call hardcore or deep, but being hardcore or deep is not necessarily fun.

Today's MMORPG isn't your granddaddy's. Things change, roll with it, or be rolled over. They refine the games for what the game players want. I'd say the majority of MMO players today could give two flying donkeys about the "Classics"

Of course these forums are no indication of the majority. It's the self-proclaimed, self-entitled elite that haunt these areas.

 

brostyn

Originally posted by Cavall


Businesses run on profit; easier, more "main-stream" games with low hardware/software requirements not only tend to generate higher revenues, but cost less to develop and maintain as well. Thus, companies that only make online games must milk that for as much as they can, even if it means repeatedly "dumbing down" the game every few months (Hello, World of Warcraft!)
Established, high-quality companies such as Square Enix tend to aim for quality over quantity, and as a result such devs' games are superior in graphics, sound, storytelling, and gameplay; however, they've had many years to perfect the RPG part of MMORPGs. Here's an easier way to think about the difference" if the servers for  World of Warcraft were to suddenly explode, completely destroying all data and backup data, Blizzard would go out of business within hours, and effectively only Activision would exist in the merged company of Blizzard-Activision. If FFXI's servers were to have the same happen to them, Square Enix would still be able to continue going strong with their games, as they don't rely on that game to keep their company afloat.
In conclusion, profits are what online gaming companies aim for first and foremost, unless they have other sources of steady revenue.

 

You'd make an excellent point if most of the games within the past 5 years were generating any sort of profit to brag about. Other than WoW, we've seen a lot of failures and a few mediocre titles. LOTRO being a mediocre title, and most everything else being failures. Also, AOC, Vanguard, DDO were not billed as, and aren't, main-stream MMOs. They just suffered horrible launches or horrible ideas.

brostyn

Originally posted by neoterrar


When I play a game I want to have fun. I don't want to wait in a queue for hours. I don't want to wait for a spawn for hours.
People tend to remember the golden era of MMOs like they really happened. Usually it's a bit picked over with some things conveniently lost.
I never played EQ or AC and I played UO for about an hour. That being said, they are not the standard for fun. They may be the standard for what some call hardcore or deep, but being hardcore or deep is not necessarily fun.
Today's MMORPG isn't your granddaddy's. Things change, roll with it, or be rolled over. They refine the games for what the game players want. I'd say the majority of MMO players today could give two flying donkeys about the "Classics"
Of course these forums are no indication of the majority. It's the self-proclaimed, self-entitled elite that haunt these areas.
 

Huh? Other than WoW what MMO is rolling over anyone? What western MMO, besides WoW, can claim to have the numbers that EQ used to have? I bet no MMO can even rival DAoC's numbers at their prime. And no LOTRO is no where near the 250K mark, let alone the 700K mark EQ once had.

 

Wait, I can think of one, and that is EVE, which is  no where near RETARD MODE. Your post is full of crap.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by nanoviper



     Am I the only one who feels like this? Is that why there are no more deep challenging games on the market? What do you guys think?

 

So you've been playing mmorpgs for almost 10 years?

Yes, many veterans want something deeper, something different.

But what about the new gamers? What do you think someone that just turned 13 or 14 wants in their MMORPG? Something different? Different from what? They've never even played an MMORPG before.

 

 

sirsammy33

for me i like the grind and more options on games better , hate classes and i see more and more people want easy way out when comes to mmo,s . 

maybe im werid or diffeffernt but thats my 2 cents in .

blakavar

I remember the UO end of beta, it was a mess.

The one and only exception being Richard Garrot started this boring pompous speech as Lord British when someone in the crowd fireballed him. Insta kill. The BEST MMO moment ever.

The GM's morphed into Demons and killed everyone in the crowd, while Rich Garret kept saying "what just happened? Whats going on?"

Amaranthar

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by nanoviper



     Am I the only one who feels like this? Is that why there are no more deep challenging games on the market? What do you guys think?

 

So you've been playing mmorpgs for almost 10 years?

Yes, many veterans want something deeper, something different.

But what about the new gamers? What do you think someone that just turned 13 or 14 wants in their MMORPG? Something different? Different from what? They've never even played an MMORPG before.

 

 

 

Age aside, that's why WoW did so well. They made their game shallow, but did it extremely well. And a lot of players who never played an MMO like UO, nor ever played a P+P game, came onto the scene.

But if you've noticed, there's an awful lot of players who are looking for something better. They jump on any new game coming out and get all excited. WoW activity gets slow with each new release. Then they find out it's the same basic game play, and not as well done, so they just go back to WoW. Leaving the new releases struggling. Aion being the most recent version.

But in the end, this mass of new MMO gamers who don't know anything else, they want something different but they can't imagine what that might be. I think if someone built a sandbox game really well, but without the rampant PKing which has killed every attempt, they'd have a huge hit on their hands.

Cavall

@Bros..

Yep, millions in profit isn't enough money to brag about. Heck, most MMO devs see more cash in a year of their game than most people see in their lifetimes. Indeed, let's completely ignore the fact that WOW isn't even 5 years old yet (it was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise), and that Free Realms, Dragon Oath, Aion, LOTRO, Champions online, and many other games that cater to casual/average audiences are doing quite well, and have been for quite some time.

 

Wrender

Originally posted by nanoviper


It's been 10 years since the release of Ultima: Online, back in good old 2009 we would have thought that by now games would be on such a level classics like Ultima, Asherons Call, and Everquest, would pale in comparison. However it is now 2009, and most gamers who have played MMO's for any period of time would agree that nothing on the market today can even live up to these original releases.
       Nostalgia aside, when critically examining these games, it appears as though with each new release the games are being dumbed down; It reminds me alot of the Mike Judge movie: Idiocracy where overtime people became dumber and dumber as technology allowed them more and more luxeries. 
       What I have been wondering is why no games with depth and challenge have been introduced to the market since 2003; The closest we have come is darkfall (don't get me started on that tangent) and in many ways I don't even feel as though, it has lived up to it's potential.
     Am I the only one who feels like this? Is that why there are no more deep challenging games on the market? What do you guys think?

 

You know we pretty much have Blizzard to thank for that. Games before WOW wasn't all like that. There was hope back then that maybe a developer would make a game that was actually challenging and with more meaningful/satisfying gameplay but since then it has went downhill. I don't understand the dumbed down mentality these days at all. Used to MMO's weren't for the little kids , I guess now days parents just would rather buy them a subscription to a seemingly cartoon game and let them vegitate in thier rooms all day than to have to actually pay any attention to the little bastards,. So sad really....Closest thing I have found to those "old school" games today would have to be EVE Online or DDO Unlimited. Both have some inovative gameplay or perhaps Vanguard:Saga of Heros. Vanguard is actually a pretty decent game now!  ANd then there is Ryzom which I havent played since they started thier subscriptions back up.......

Sauronas

Once the venture capitalists got a whiff of the wow money the industry became retarded.   

4Renziks

People need to realize mmo is an addiction.  The reason you guys are not finding any fun in any of the new game is because the high is never as high as your 1st MMO....most people are now trying to reach that high that they got from their 1st MMO but its something that will never be reached...most of these games are not bad games...its just not what you want them to be.   MMORPG's are the hardest games to develop because they are so massive that there can be on thing that turns people away.  I use to be like the people that bash all new games, but when i realized that iam never going to feel the way i did about FFIX in any other game.....even 14! This has help me to enjoy MMO's more than i use to instead of being so emo. 

dhayes68

as an vet gamer, I can say I'm not happy with the current crop of mmo's. but to be honest I have to admit that it doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. All it means is that they aren't what I like. Presumably they are what many others like. My choice is to suck it up or walk away.

I've chosen to walk away (first time in 5 years not subbed ot anything) but reserve the right to whine incessantly about it, because its fun.

Josexph

Originally posted by dhayes68


as an vet gamer, I can say I'm not happy with the current crop of mmo's. but to be honest I have to admit that it doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. All it means is that they aren't what I like. Presumably they are what many others like. My choice is to suck it up or walk away.
I've chosen to walk away (first time in 5 years not subbed ot anything) but reserve the right to whine incessantly about it, because its fun.

 

Haha I feel ya. Im one to be chained to a game at all times, but lately with this drought for MMOs, Ive actually have a life.

aelieth

I quit playing MMO's just a little over a year ago. I started playing Dragon Realms back in the mid 90's on AOL and continued playing MMO's, Everquest, Asheron's Call, City of Villians / Heros, Age of Conan, WoW and all its expansions, blahblahblah. Last year I just quit, cold turkey and said screw all of this.

MMO developers need to take a step back and look at creating something really worth while. Not the next copy of WoW in an attempt  to be a WoW killer or leech some of its disillusioned players. Graphics aren't everything either. Someone needs to sit down and really think this out. It's all become the same now, the first challenge from me to all of them is how to remove levels and go with a pure skill system.

Bah, this thread just got to me.  I totally agree, MMO's are just killing me anymore. I'll find one I enjoy again and play... just today there is nothing worth while in my book. Maybe I'm just old enough now that I realize my real life is my real MMO and I should be leveling myself up.

Sauronas

Originally posted by 4Renziks


People need to realize mmo is an addiction.  The reason you guys are not finding any fun in any of the new game is because the high is never as high as your 1st MMO....most people are now trying to reach that high that they got from their 1st MMO but its something that will never be reached...most of these games are not bad games...its just not what you want them to be.   MMORPG's are the hardest games to develop because they are so massive that there can be on thing that turns people away.  I use to be like the people that bash all new games, but when i realized that iam never going to feel the way i did about FFIX in any other game.....even 14! This has help me to enjoy MMO's more than i use to instead of being so emo. 

 

Haha so true.  I think this is how wow got so popular.  It was many peoples first mmo.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by nanoviper


It's been 10 years since the release of Ultima: Online, back in good old 2009 we would have thought that by now games would be on such a level classics like Ultima, Asherons Call, and Everquest, would pale in comparison. However it is now 2009, and most gamers who have played MMO's for any period of time would agree that nothing on the market today can even live up to these original releases.
       Nostalgia aside, when critically examining these games, it appears as though with each new release the games are being dumbed down; It reminds me alot of the Mike Judge movie: Idiocracy where overtime people became dumber and dumber as technology allowed them more and more luxeries. 
       What I have been wondering is why no games with depth and challenge have been introduced to the market since 2003; The closest we have come is darkfall (don't get me started on that tangent) and in many ways I don't even feel as though, it has lived up to it's potential.
     Am I the only one who feels like this? Is that why there are no more deep challenging games on the market? What do you guys think?

 

Yes, you and a minority of the players. I started with UO & EQ and they *are* pale in comparison to the newer modern MMOs in terms of features and fun factor.

Scot

We have had serveral years now of companies trying to release the new WoW. It is small wonder we don't feel that MMORPG's are going anywhere gameplay wise.