Are MMO fans really this stupid ? Why is vanguard a should of been game.It is like your Dad is sick in hospital with a broken arm and the doctor say he is going to die,The nurse says he is going to die,everybody keep on saying die when he going to be fine.
Why are people making vanguard dead?
It has better graphics than WoW,It has way better graphics than darkfall
It is good mix of Open World and Quests
It is one deepest mmo with player housing,crafting and diplomacy
MMO can never recover from a bad start ? A game can fix all problems players had but since the game made mistake in beginning people won't play it.The funniest thing players would medicore new games instead given Vanguard a try agian.
You want to know sad part is Sony was to cancel Vanguard,Wait three months start a beta test for a game called " Wanguard",then hype it and 2 month later release "Wanguard".I willing to bet all money in the i have in the bank,that mmo fans will eat up like hot cakes.
I am going to tell you truth i have tried Vanguard twice,the first time as a trial,the second time i played for about two months.I have not played the game in about 7 months.I stop playing because i am big pvper and i could not find people to play with.I don't hold a grudge with my games i willing to give any game a second and third chance if the game might be fun the next time.
This is one amazig game if you like exploration/crafting/pve, has great communty i still play this game from time to time ,always bouncing between this game and LOTRO,
I would recommend this game to anyone if you are bored of your favorite MMO, it's a really good change .
Are MMO fans really this stupid ? Why is vanguard a should of been game.It is like your Dad is sick in hospital with a broken arm and the doctor say he is going to die,The nurse says he is going to die,everybody keep on saying die when he going to be fine.
Why are people making vanguard dead? It has better graphics than WoW,It has way better graphics than darkfall It is good mix of Open World and Quests It is one deepest mmo with player housing,crafting and diplomacy
MMO can never recover from a bad start ? A game can fix all problems players had but since the game made mistake in beginning people won't play it.The funniest thing players would medicore new games instead given Vanguard a try agian. You want to know sad part is Sony was to cancel Vanguard,Wait three months start a beta test for a game called " Wanguard",then hype it and 2 month later release "Wanguard".I willing to bet all money in the i have in the bank,that mmo fans will eat up like hot cakes. I am going to tell you truth i have tried Vanguard twice,the first time as a trial,the second time i played for about two months.I have not played the game in about 7 months.I stop playing because i am big pvper and i could not find people to play with.I don't hold a grudge with my games i willing to give any game a second and third chance if the game might be fun the next time.
Having the best graphics doesn't mean its the better game.
Having an open world doesn't mean the mechanics are always intact.
Having deep gameplay is great but when you screw other areas, it rather makes the gameplay seem dry.
Vanguard simply is not the game for today's MMO market. Good start/bad start. Regardless if we love it or hate it, the MMO industry has changed. EQ style games simply won't make it unless they are done correctly and supported 110%. Its unfortunate VG doesn't have either or. Not saying its VG's fault, SOE runs the show. Talk to them.
Well, you talked me into it. I just bought a cheap copy off of Amazon. What really made me want to get it is because I'm an old EQ1 addict. I miss that type of play style and figure if I don't like the game I only spent five bucks on it so it's worth a shot. By the way what server are you on?
Definitely play Seradon. The most populated sever. Well, that and Xeth.
Vanguard is a tricky one for me. It's clearly an awesome MMO despite it's bugs. My problem is I'll play it for a month or two think it's the best thing ever and then stop playing. Usually it's after I start comparing where the game is now to where it should have been and I start to see the signs of the game being on life support.
VG could be really strong if SOE gave it the time of day but they don't - so why should I still give them any money? It's depressing seeing so much potential pissed away and dietracts from my enjoyment of it. I've played the various EQs for years and they are constantly upgrading those games, VG gets nothing yet the subscription cost is exactly the same.
Vangard and SOE lost my money forever (I will never buy an SOE product again- Hell never even a Sony Product again) as dealing with them has left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Vangard had the potential to be the best MMO BAR NONE ever created... I imagine its pretty awesome right now (I wont ever find out because its an SOE product) but how long did you have to pay to play (Alpha Test) that broken disaster of a Game? I preordered the "Special Edition" and stuck it out for 6 months just praying it would get some sort of attention... How many obvious bugs were never fixed? How many Forum threads removed or locked?
Wow, Vangard was a complete nightmare- And it should have been great- It COULD have killed WOW- But SOE killed Vangard instead.
It may be better now, but after the way SOE treated its paying Customers, NEVER will they get a dime of my money even if they somehow create the best game in the History of LIFE Itself.
It's NOT a SOE product, they just purchased the game othervise it would have been closed now. What would you have suggested instead ?
Umm, what? SoE was involved before release. They took over as publisher before release and also in beta 4 / open beta got their devs mitts in the works. When SoE got involved and forced Sigil to rush it out the door on threat of dropping being the publisher Sigil had no choice but to release it. Sigil even stated they wanted 2 extra months before release and was shot down by SoE who was the new cash fund. I was in the game in beta 2 being one of the oldest followers of the game for 5 years before release when it was just an idea and nothing had started. The game had huge huge potential on what Sigil said they wanted and how it looked in beta 2 and 3. However come beta 4 with open beta drastic changes were made and much needed fixes didn't happen. The game became trashed in 2-3 weeks of SoE involvement because SoE wanted a new title out right then.
Nice to see other people posting about VG, so thanks OP. ^^ Yes, this game has its issues...vast majority of games do. But VG gets a lot right...not many games offer the things VG offers. And yes, SOE doesn't advertise for VG as they should, since it really is a diamond in the rough...but then they don't do a lot of active advertising for their other IP's (EQ, EQ2, Freerealms, etc.). Yes, sometimes there are ads...but per the VG devs (if I recall correctly), each SOE game needs to pull its own weight after the initial investment/honeymoon period wears off.
These games need to generate their own advertisement budgets if they want advertisements, and most probably decide to forgo that to budget other things instead. Personally, I think SOE is foolish to not push their games, but that's their business decision. Pretty much, then, it's up to gamers to decide if they want this (or any other SOE-published game) to succeed or fail.
Frankly, there's nothing that comes close to offering the breadth and depth that VG has in its current state (even without there being any expansions). Whether that's a testament to just how awesome a game VG is, or how bad the slate of MMO offerings there are in the market, is for others to debate.
What I know: VG offers a lot of things that other games can't touch. It offers me a world, not just a game that shuffles you from zone to zone in a clearly defined pathway, without the option for deviation. I'm a player that really enjoys a world to boxed in zones, and the freedom to go where I want when I want (even if it means I'm likely going to die from that powerful flying mob coming over the mountains -- mountains I could cross had I the will and the means).
The vast majority of VG's ills would be cured with a higher stable population. Yes, it's getting clearer the population is improving. (I know, I know, we're always saying that...but that's because it is.) And that's a good thing. Yes, I wish it would improve faster...but it's still going up. Just the other day, I noticed server pops being labeled at "Medium." That's new. That's very good. And others are, apparently, noticing that.
And why would this cure VG's ills? Because many of VG's ills are directly tied to the population. Because resources available to SOE games are driven by their sub numbers. And if VG's subs go up, then VG can be afforded that larger dev team, which means more and faster content updates and bug patches.
This is why I say, and will keep saying it: If you don't like VG because it's just not your preferred style of gameplay (which is certainly fair enough), then fine. But for those who enjoy VG, who want to see it succeed, I would hope you would hang on with VG and support it, instead of dumping it because of population issues. Mentoring's in, and there are several ways to help get groups if you want to. But yes, get the word out about Vanguard, because the game has improved and the sad reality is that not many even know of the game. The only way it'll reach that potential many of us would like to see (including me, who hung around for VG pre-launch and knew what that potential was/could be), is if we support it. Because that (like it or not) is how SOE rolls with their games.
I enjoyed VG but after getting to like level 25 and seeing virtually no one I decided that its time to stop playing. I play MMO's to play in groups and see a thriving community, lack of that kills an MMO for me.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I enjoyed VG but after getting to like level 25 and seeing virtually no one I decided that its time to stop playing. I play MMO's to play in groups and see a thriving community, lack of that kills an MMO for me.
It really does depend on where you are (server and locale). There's no getting around it...if you aren't on Seradon or Xeth, it'll be a lot harder to find people. You can search them out, use the chat, etc., but you'll have to actively find them. Doesn't help when people can literally disappear into the world (be it the wilderness, skies, or oceans).
It also helps a lot to bring friends with you to play with, to maybe set something up with another player on the forums, to join a guild asap, etc. It varies, and I have a feeling that the server could be at capacity and you'd still have times when you wouldn't find other players while wandering around. Goes back to the world being realistically spaced out and not having funneled content.
But yeah, to each his own I suppose. If you're looking for that "world's bursting at the seams with people popping out of every corner" kind of population, VG would probably never fill that need.
Thought struck me (an aside, not a bash of any sort): that's probably why a lot of more modern MMO's still cling to that "zones & instances" formula...zones and instances keep people packed together in clearly defined "boxes" and there's nowhere for people to hide, therefore creating that sense that there's a lot of people all around you. In VG, you don't have those boxes so people, instead of being funneled together, spread out all over the place. Might explain some things. ^^
Vangard and SOE lost my money forever (I will never buy an SOE product again- Hell never even a Sony Product again) as dealing with them has left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Vangard had the potential to be the best MMO BAR NONE ever created... I imagine its pretty awesome right now (I wont ever find out because its an SOE product) but how long did you have to pay to play (Alpha Test) that broken disaster of a Game? I preordered the "Special Edition" and stuck it out for 6 months just praying it would get some sort of attention... How many obvious bugs were never fixed? How many Forum threads removed or locked?
Wow, Vangard was a complete nightmare- And it should have been great- It COULD have killed WOW- But SOE killed Vangard instead.
It may be better now, but after the way SOE treated its paying Customers, NEVER will they get a dime of my money even if they somehow create the best game in the History of LIFE Itself.
It's NOT a SOE product, they just purchased the game othervise it would have been closed now. What would you have suggested instead ?
Umm, what? SoE was involved before release. They took over as publisher before release and also in beta 4 / open beta got their devs mitts in the works. When SoE got involved and forced Sigil to rush it out the door on threat of dropping being the publisher Sigil had no choice but to release it. Sigil even stated they wanted 2 extra months before release and was shot down by SoE who was the new cash fund. I was in the game in beta 2 being one of the oldest followers of the game for 5 years before release when it was just an idea and nothing had started. The game had huge huge potential on what Sigil said they wanted and how it looked in beta 2 and 3. However come beta 4 with open beta drastic changes were made and much needed fixes didn't happen. The game became trashed in 2-3 weeks of SoE involvement because SoE wanted a new title out right then.
That is completely wrong. Soe had no rights at all except to publish. Sigil ran out of money. Without financial backing of microsoft, it was either release soon with an unfinished product or toss the whole thing.
Sigil made sure Soe had no say whatsoever when they first brought them in. Later they sold the rights because the game was a disaster basically and they needed to salvage something. I was in beta also. It was not even close to ready. Everyone knew it, including the devs, they just had no choice with no money
Sigil figured would have been better to release earlier and hope to fix/ complete on the go, than just sell it to Soe. Well, it didn't work out and they ended up selling to soe after all, lol.
As far as the game, I've gone back a couple times. Once, it was running smoothly for me. I was really enjoying it. I had to stop playing for various reasons. I went back maybe 6 months later and the game was nearly unplayable. it regressed for me. Haven't been back since. Maybe on one of those free weeks or so they give every now and then.
maybe set something up with another player on the forums, to join a guild asap, etc.
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff. Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between. On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
Originally posted by Vynt That is completely wrong. Soe had no rights at all except to publish. Sigil ran out of money. Without financial backing of microsoft, it was either release soon with an unfinished product or toss the whole thing.
Sigil made sure Soe had no say whatsoever when they first brought them in. Later they sold the rights because the game was a disaster basically and they needed to salvage something. I was in beta also. It was not even close to ready. Everyone knew it, including the devs, they just had no choice with no money Sigil figured would have been better to release earlier and hope to fix/ complete on the go, than just sell it to Soe. Well, it didn't work out and they ended up selling to soe after all, lol.
Why would you think that? What bargaining power did Sigil have in this arangement? What could they possibly offer to make soe hand over piles of money without any control in the project?
Sigil was a company that had lost their funding and were being abandoned by microsoft, because they were failing to produce.
Soe could dictate whatever terms they wanted to sigil, because they had all the barganing power. That is exactly why soe cut funding when they did.
The end result is that Sigil was a massive failure under microsoft and soe picked up the failure and did not do anything to turn the project around. I don't blame soe, because they come out in a far better position if Sigil failed, which is exactly what happened.
They eliminated a game that was squarely aimed at their primary customers in EQ/EQ2.
They got another title for station pass.
They got to look like the heros for "saved" the game from death.
They also got to hire a mass of very mismanaged, but talented developers who they could put into their farm system (keeping only those that show potential). Keep in mind soe had 3 major projects in the works at that time and talent is scarce.
I just don't see how Sigil could dictate anything in the position they were in. As the old saying goes 'he who has the money makes the rules' and Sigil did not have any money.
maybe set something up with another player on the forums, to join a guild asap, etc.
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff. Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between. On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
I applaud you and your enthusiasm for the game. I reall do. But all n all, the number of players who support and attempt to get the game's name out are far out-weighted by those who have tried the game and who shun the game. That's why you won't see VG getting the support it needs in any near future. Simply stated, VG is a game that offers something that others don't, but the areas it lacks in are the reasons why its in its tiny hole currently. I know everyone compares the great MMO comebacks to EVE Online and they have every right to do so. But what did EVE have that VG doesn't have? A supportive company. You can have the super cool classes, great concepts, the whole nine. But if you don't have the BACKBONE that keeps these games going, its not going to be worth half a damn in the long run. In today's industry, people are looking for that long-run security and quite frankly, VG has always been a cloudy one. That's the problem.
Case in point, if the game is so great it should sell itself. I've done my fair share of potential viral marketing for the game (trust me I have), but it struck me that it will take a mircale, and I do mean a mircale for SOE to realize and put this game into a better position. I've helped noobs, too many of them in fact, but the one thing they thanked me for is that I didn't sugar coat anything, Thats the only problem I have with these kinds of post, that they are sugar-coated to no end. Why do you think you don't see people who've seen all the content advertising the game? Because they know if they posted their experiences of what the game offers truly, it wouldn't be something to sell.
Yes, the game has shapened up over the years, no one is doubting that one bit. But in the end, they are still making very bad decisions and takes months to reverse them into playable conditions. I mean lets talk about the raid game, VG does not appeal to end-game raiders (no I'm not talking about the 24/7 raiders) but those who want to hit some raid content in general. Why? Because its not promising and has a cloudy future (Note APW, note HoSs, note Overlands).
And as for guilds, yes you mentioned the 2 biggest casual guilds on Seradon, but what about the number of guilds the game has pushed away? Again, all I ask is VG players who want to spread the word of Vanguard, do it, but do it honestly. Cover all corners and I guarantee you, you will see much more dedicated players coming to the game because they will know first hand what they are getting into.
maybe set something up with another player on the forums, to join a guild asap, etc.
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff. Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between. On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
I applaud you and your enthusiasm for the game. I reall do. But all n all, the number of players who support and attempt to get the game's name out are far out-weighted by those who have tried the game and who shun the game. That's why you won't see VG getting the support it needs in any near future. Simply stated, VG is a game that offers something that others don't, but the areas it lacks in are the reasons why its in its tiny hole currently. I know everyone compares the great MMO comebacks to EVE Online and they have every right to do so. But what did EVE have that VG doesn't have? A supportive company. You can have the super cool classes, great concepts, the whole nine. But if you don't have the BACKBONE that keeps these games going, its not going to be worth half a damn in the long run. In today's industry, people are looking for that long-run security and quite frankly, VG has always been a cloudy one. That's the problem.
Case in point, if the game is so great it should sell itself. I've done my fair share of potential viral marketing for the game (trust me I have), but it struck me that it will take a mircale, and I do mean a mircale for SOE to realize and put this game into a better position. I've helped noobs, too many of them in fact, but the one thing they thanked me for is that I didn't sugar coat anything, Thats the only problem I have with these kinds of post, that they are sugar-coated to no end. Why do you think you don't see people who've seen all the content advertising the game? Because they know if they posted their experiences of what the game offers truly, it wouldn't be something to sell.
Yes, the game has shapened up over the years, no one is doubting that one bit. But in the end, they are still making very bad decisions and takes months to reverse them into playable conditions. I mean lets talk about the raid game, VG does not appeal to end-game raiders (no I'm not talking about the 24/7 raiders) but those who want to hit some raid content in general. Why? Because its not promising and has a cloudy future (Note APW, note HoSs, note Overlands).
And as for guilds, yes you mentioned the 2 biggest casual guilds on Seradon, but what about the number of guilds the game has pushed away? Again, all I ask is VG players who want to spread the word of Vanguard, do it, but do it honestly. Cover all corners and I guarantee you, you will see much more dedicated players coming to the game because they will know first hand what they are getting into.
*sigh* I'm certainly not clouded to the game's faults, and I'm definitely not clouded by the game's potential. Reality is what it is, but it's also clear VG is a solid game and a lot of people don't know about it. If a miracle is going to happen, it will have to happen on the players' ends; simple as that. This game will fail if people do not play it, and people will not play it if they've never heard of it and/or they erroneously believe it's still the game that first launched. The game has potential, yes...and that potential will never be able to be realized if people don't play it.
There seems to be this sort of sense that VG is a ship long-since sailed...it isn't to that point yet, but it could very well get there...and this has little to do with SOE today. This ball is entirely in the players' court. Yes, SOE does things that don't necessarily help games...but if the devs are to be believed, then it's because SOE's business practices are to let a game thrive, limp, or fail on its own merits/success/what-have-you. They do this for just about all their games. They might pour resources into it at first, but there comes a time when they cut the umbilical cord and that game needs to walk on its own. This is not unusual amongst SOE games.
Why do I push Vanguard so "enthusiastically?" I'm tired the the same old tripe being fed into the trough for gamers these days. "New" mmos that just shovel out the same hand-holding, stifling drivel time and again, the same time-worn, archaic mechanics that should have been retired "long" ago. Vanguard's a game that embraces a lot of "old" concepts that just aren't carried out in a lot of today's newer mmos. Vast, seamless worlds, freedom, travel...they've come very close to creating an actual "world," and not just a bunch of boxes connected by impassible doors. It's the foundational philosophy driving other aspects of it. Vanguard is a good game...it's just about the only "new" game on the block that gets things like that "right." Does it still need work? You bet. Is it perfect? No. Again, though...it offers a complete experience, and a very deep experience, for players and we as gamers should support those that break the mold. What SOE has done is placed the survivability of this game into the hands of gamers...and if it sinks into an anonymous grave, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. Same with many a great but underrated game that is unheard of by the masses.
And really, if SOE wasn't supportive, if SOE really did want to just wipe out their competition, they would have pulled the plug long ago. They haven't yet and nothing's been announced in that regard. That ship does not yet need to sail, and it won't if people actually played the game, supported it, spread the word, etc. By no means am I painting SOE as a hero...but their business practices are their business practices and that's the situation dealt to us with VG, and others with their other SOE games.
I can't speak of raids except to say that, from what I understand, there's yet to be a guild to complete every bit of raid content in the game. I've heard they're pretty well-designed as well. Maybe I'm mistaken and I heard incorrectly, but raiding seems to be going fairly well in VG, for dedicated raid guilds and "casual" raid guilds as well. Are there still issues that might crop up and have to be dealt with? Yeah, but raiding is still going on. As for those who've experienced "all" the content in VG, I haven't heard of/from them period. I have heard from individuals who've stuck with the game since launch and who actually still enjoy the game, however, and who even claim to still discover new things in it.
And perhaps the game is selling itself, ever so slowly. People gradually discover it and spread the word about it...and then others try it. I've noticed the servers growing...maybe not quickly, but they are incrementally improving it seems. Perhaps eventually a stable enough population can establish itself and VG can get out of the cycle that's been perpetuated by disenfranchised players.
I mentioned the 2 largest guilds on Seradon and was very clear as to what they were. Seemed pretty honest to me. I also mentioned there are many other guilds as well. Because guess what? There are. Yes, there are guilds that have left...and there are guilds that are newly forming even very recently. Like any other game, some rise and thrive, others fall to the wayside. That's the nature of any mmo.
You seem to think I'm here to sugar-coat the game. I'm not. I've been quite critical of it in the past, but realistically so. I also still believe this game, for all its hardships, still offers more for players than even the tripe new games push these days. I'm not going to brow-beat someone into thinking this game isn't all that but they should still play it. I'm going to tell them exactly what I think: again, that this is a game that offers some amazing features in spite of the scars and wounds, and most anything else can't even touch it..
maybe set something up with another player on the forums, to join a guild asap, etc.
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff. Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between. On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
I applaud you and your enthusiasm for the game. I reall do. But all n all, the number of players who support and attempt to get the game's name out are far out-weighted by those who have tried the game and who shun the game. That's why you won't see VG getting the support it needs in any near future. Simply stated, VG is a game that offers something that others don't, but the areas it lacks in are the reasons why its in its tiny hole currently. I know everyone compares the great MMO comebacks to EVE Online and they have every right to do so. But what did EVE have that VG doesn't have? A supportive company. You can have the super cool classes, great concepts, the whole nine. But if you don't have the BACKBONE that keeps these games going, its not going to be worth half a damn in the long run. In today's industry, people are looking for that long-run security and quite frankly, VG has always been a cloudy one. That's the problem.
Case in point, if the game is so great it should sell itself. I've done my fair share of potential viral marketing for the game (trust me I have), but it struck me that it will take a mircale, and I do mean a mircale for SOE to realize and put this game into a better position. I've helped noobs, too many of them in fact, but the one thing they thanked me for is that I didn't sugar coat anything, Thats the only problem I have with these kinds of post, that they are sugar-coated to no end. Why do you think you don't see people who've seen all the content advertising the game? Because they know if they posted their experiences of what the game offers truly, it wouldn't be something to sell.
Yes, the game has shapened up over the years, no one is doubting that one bit. But in the end, they are still making very bad decisions and takes months to reverse them into playable conditions. I mean lets talk about the raid game, VG does not appeal to end-game raiders (no I'm not talking about the 24/7 raiders) but those who want to hit some raid content in general. Why? Because its not promising and has a cloudy future (Note APW, note HoSs, note Overlands).
And as for guilds, yes you mentioned the 2 biggest casual guilds on Seradon, but what about the number of guilds the game has pushed away? Again, all I ask is VG players who want to spread the word of Vanguard, do it, but do it honestly. Cover all corners and I guarantee you, you will see much more dedicated players coming to the game because they will know first hand what they are getting into.
*sigh* I'm certainly not clouded to the game's faults, and I'm definitely not clouded by the game's potential. Reality is what it is, but it's also clear VG is a solid game and a lot of people don't know about it. If a miracle is going to happen, it will have to happen on the players' ends; simple as that. This game will fail if people do not play it, and people will not play it if they've never heard of it and/or they erroneously believe it's still the game that first launched. The game has potential, yes...and that potential will never be able to be realized if people don't play it.
There seems to be this sort of sense that VG is a ship long-since sailed...it isn't to that point yet, but it could very well get there...and this has little to do with SOE today. This ball is entirely in the players' court. Yes, SOE does things that don't necessarily help games...but if the devs are to be believed, then it's because SOE's business practices are to let a game thrive, limp, or fail on its own merits/success/what-have-you. They do this for just about all their games. They might pour resources into it at first, but there comes a time when they cut the umbilical cord and that game needs to walk on its own. This is not unusual amongst SOE games.
Why do I push Vanguard so "enthusiastically?" I'm tired the the same old tripe being fed into the trough for gamers these days. "New" mmos that just shovel out the same hand-holding, stifling drivel time and again, the same time-worn, archaic mechanics that should have been retired "long" ago. Vanguard's a game that embraces a lot of "old" concepts that just aren't carried out in a lot of today's newer mmos. Vast, seamless worlds, freedom, travel...they've come very close to creating an actual "world," and not just a bunch of boxes connected by impassible doors. It's the foundational philosophy driving other aspects of it. Vanguard is a good game...it's just about the only "new" game on the block that gets things like that "right." Does it still need work? You bet. Is it perfect? No. Again, though...it offers a complete experience, and a very deep experience, for players and we as gamers should support those that break the mold. What SOE has done is placed the survivability of this game into the hands of gamers...and if it sinks into an anonymous grave, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. Same with many a great but underrated game that is unheard of by the masses.
And really, if SOE wasn't supportive, if SOE really did want to just wipe out their competition, they would have pulled the plug long ago. They haven't yet and nothing's been announced in that regard. That ship does not yet need to sail, and it won't if people actually played the game, supported it, spread the word, etc. By no means am I painting SOE as a hero...but their business practices are their business practices and that's the situation dealt to us with VG, and others with their other SOE games.
I can't speak of raids except to say that, from what I understand, there's yet to be a guild to complete every bit of raid content in the game. I've heard they're pretty well-designed as well. Maybe I'm mistaken and I heard incorrectly, but raiding seems to be going fairly well in VG, for dedicated raid guilds and "casual" raid guilds as well. Are there still issues that might crop up and have to be dealt with? Yeah, but raiding is still going on. As for those who've experienced "all" the content in VG, I haven't heard of/from them period. I have heard from individuals who've stuck with the game since launch and who actually still enjoy the game, however, and who even claim to still discover new things in it.
And perhaps the game is selling itself, ever so slowly. People gradually discover it and spread the word about it...and then others try it. I've noticed the servers growing...maybe not quickly, but they are incrementally improving it seems. Perhaps eventually a stable enough population can establish itself and VG can get out of the cycle that's been perpetuated by disenfranchised players.
I mentioned the 2 largest guilds on Seradon and was very clear as to what they were. Seemed pretty honest to me. I also mentioned there are many other guilds as well. Because guess what? There are. Yes, there are guilds that have left...and there are guilds that are newly forming even very recently. Like any other game, some rise and thrive, others fall to the wayside. That's the nature of any mmo.
You seem to think I'm here to sugar-coat the game. I'm not. I've been quite critical of it in the past, but realistically so. I also still believe this game, for all its hardships, still offers more for players than even the tripe new games push these days. I'm not going to brow-beat someone into thinking this game isn't all that but they should still play it. I'm going to tell them exactly what I think: again, that this is a game that offers some amazing features in spite of the scars and wounds, and most anything else can't even touch it..
Any game thats in the hands of the players of getting back on its feet. Then its deemed for failure. SOE won't pull the plug because they KNOW its not in competition with other games in its current state and they can milk that small % of the market.
As for VG not holding your hand. I'll be the first to say (not really the first). But Vanguard is a very easy game. From my start, to the current state in VG, the only thing that was challenged was my patience. Lets just be honest, the only depth the game has to offer is its races and classes. As for raiding, raid content has been all completed numerous times up until they started releasing content that was openly bugged and wasn't fixed until months after (I can provide examples).
But here's the misconception. The fact is Vanguard is WELL known in the MMO community. Com'on, VG was hyped rediculously when it was launched and was known for the first year or so. Of course newer players coming into the industry won't know about it, but again like I posted, the current satisfied players of VG are far outweighed by the "disgruntled, former players". And of course its always the "their word" vs. "your word".
Like I said, this is a matter of opinion. I recently cancelled my sub about 5 days ago. I've seen everything the game has to offer and then some. This is why I say its going to have to take a miracle that expands over the course of a year or so for VG to get back on its feet because the retention rate is simply horrible, that's my kicking point. People are claiming the population is growing, it seems that way but they can only measure the lower end. The higher end/veteran area of VG is dying off itself.
This is not claiming the game is dying, its the fact its a rotating door and it rotates faster than any MMO I've played. The fact that VG's fate lies in getting more players, that's already saying the writing is on the wall because you have to gain players over time and while that's happening more games/options are becoming available.
Maybe its just me, maybe I'm crazy but if I had to pick between a game that's supposedly deeper, more diverse, but barely supported to a game that is highly supported, not as deep, but has a better chance of becoming so, of course I would go with the one that's supported more because the chances are better.
I guess what I'm getting at with my WoT, something more has to be offered with these VG advertisement posts than what goes on in the game. Players are WAY too critical today than they were 5 years ago, there needs to be a much more firm belief that this can be my home the next 2 - 3 years down the stretch. And from my interactions with development, raid testing, content testing, personally I do not see it nor did I feel it.
I played vanguard at launch. yes it was bad but it was an awesome game. i was hooked because it was made by the orig creative genius's behind EQ and have to say i was not let down by it at all. i was one of the first people top build a sloop and if you are looking for an updated version of EQ than this game is for you. it has the same feel, large world, scary dungeons and it is basicly the same thing, this game is a real winner and i wish there would be just more people who would consider playing it.
The wife and I have just brought the game each, not installed it yet but looking forward to it. We both loved EQ2 and are hoping that this will be as much fun.
The wife and I have just brought the game each, not installed it yet but looking forward to it. We both loved EQ2 and are hoping that this will be as much fun.
That is good to hear. Play on Seradon. My name is Volition in-game, if you ever want to group up.
Any game thats in the hands of the players of getting back on its feet. Then its deemed for failure. SOE won't pull the plug because they KNOW its not in competition with other games in its current state and they can milk that small % of the market. As for VG not holding your hand. I'll be the first to say (not really the first). But Vanguard is a very easy game. From my start, to the current state in VG, the only thing that was challenged was my patience. Lets just be honest, the only depth the game has to offer is its races and classes. As for raiding, raid content has been all completed numerous times up until they started releasing content that was openly bugged and wasn't fixed until months after (I can provide examples). But here's the misconception. The fact is Vanguard is WELL known in the MMO community. Com'on, VG was hyped rediculously when it was launched and was known for the first year or so. Of course newer players coming into the industry won't know about it, but again like I posted, the current satisfied players of VG are far outweighed by the "disgruntled, former players". And of course its always the "their word" vs. "your word". Like I said, this is a matter of opinion. I recently cancelled my sub about 5 days ago. I've seen everything the game has to offer and then some. This is why I say its going to have to take a miracle that expands over the course of a year or so for VG to get back on its feet because the retention rate is simply horrible, that's my kicking point. People are claiming the population is growing, it seems that way but they can only measure the lower end. The higher end/veteran area of VG is dying off itself. This is not claiming the game is dying, its the fact its a rotating door and it rotates faster than any MMO I've played. The fact that VG's fate lies in getting more players, that's already saying the writing is on the wall because you have to gain players over time and while that's happening more games/options are becoming available. Maybe its just me, maybe I'm crazy but if I had to pick between a game that's supposedly deeper, more diverse, but barely supported to a game that is highly supported, not as deep, but has a better chance of becoming so, of course I would go with the one that's supported more because the chances are better. I guess what I'm getting at with my WoT, something more has to be offered with these VG advertisement posts than what goes on in the game. Players are WAY too critical today than they were 5 years ago, there needs to be a much more firm belief that this can be my home the next 2 - 3 years down the stretch. And from my interactions with development, raid testing, content testing, personally I do not see it nor did I feel it.
Let's be honest, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I happen to feel that few, if any games out there, offer what VG offers. More than just deep classes and races. But again, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as I and others are as well.
I happen to see the various reasons (and there are many variables going into this) for the game being in the state it's in, and I certainly don't believe it to be as dire as you appear to believe it. And no, at least from what I've seen, VG apparently isn't that well-known...which kind of leads to many other issues it needs to deal with. Every game lives and dies with its playerbase, and yes, every game relies on players "selling" the game. Some games get added help with advertising, but it's the players themselves who help rocket a game to success or failure. A bad rep, or an inaccurate rep, or no rep at all, hurts a game. Awareness driven and spread by players is especially needed when other avenues of advertisement aren't utilized (ex: media coverage, player reviews, and more traditional media as well).
VG relying on the same word-of-mouth from players that many other games do, does not deem it a failure. Certainly when you take into account more of the situation it is in as a whole, and in relation to it being in the SOE stable of games (and thusly with how SOE handles that stable). My point is that it isn't unusual with a SOE game, and understanding at least a little with how SOE shares the wealth amongst that stable helps to explain, again, VG's current "predicament" and how that can be turned around.
I certainly don't believe in the fanciful notion that SOE is purposefully strangling the game so that its "baby" EQ2 can thrive. Two different games targeting different play styles and, above all, SOE is a business with a pretty clear system. Even the VG devs have explained how it works and have alluded to what it would take for VG to get more resources. Like them or hate them, SOE isn't strangling the game. I see a lot of sense behind how they run their business, and I can understand how other players would think it "wrong" or "misguided." I see both perspectives, and understanding it, I can understand how easily it would be for VG to get out of that "revolving door" cycle. But again, the catalyst is the players. That's my point.
Any game thats in the hands of the players of getting back on its feet. Then its deemed for failure. SOE won't pull the plug because they KNOW its not in competition with other games in its current state and they can milk that small % of the market. As for VG not holding your hand. I'll be the first to say (not really the first). But Vanguard is a very easy game. From my start, to the current state in VG, the only thing that was challenged was my patience. Lets just be honest, the only depth the game has to offer is its races and classes. As for raiding, raid content has been all completed numerous times up until they started releasing content that was openly bugged and wasn't fixed until months after (I can provide examples). But here's the misconception. The fact is Vanguard is WELL known in the MMO community. Com'on, VG was hyped rediculously when it was launched and was known for the first year or so. Of course newer players coming into the industry won't know about it, but again like I posted, the current satisfied players of VG are far outweighed by the "disgruntled, former players". And of course its always the "their word" vs. "your word". Like I said, this is a matter of opinion. I recently cancelled my sub about 5 days ago. I've seen everything the game has to offer and then some. This is why I say its going to have to take a miracle that expands over the course of a year or so for VG to get back on its feet because the retention rate is simply horrible, that's my kicking point. People are claiming the population is growing, it seems that way but they can only measure the lower end. The higher end/veteran area of VG is dying off itself. This is not claiming the game is dying, its the fact its a rotating door and it rotates faster than any MMO I've played. The fact that VG's fate lies in getting more players, that's already saying the writing is on the wall because you have to gain players over time and while that's happening more games/options are becoming available. Maybe its just me, maybe I'm crazy but if I had to pick between a game that's supposedly deeper, more diverse, but barely supported to a game that is highly supported, not as deep, but has a better chance of becoming so, of course I would go with the one that's supported more because the chances are better. I guess what I'm getting at with my WoT, something more has to be offered with these VG advertisement posts than what goes on in the game. Players are WAY too critical today than they were 5 years ago, there needs to be a much more firm belief that this can be my home the next 2 - 3 years down the stretch. And from my interactions with development, raid testing, content testing, personally I do not see it nor did I feel it.
Let's be honest, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I happen to feel that few, if any games out there, offer what VG offers. More than just deep classes and races. But again, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as I and others are as well.
I happen to see the various reasons (and there are many variables going into this) for the game being in the state it's in, and I certainly don't believe it to be as dire as you appear to believe it. And no, at least from what I've seen, VG apparently isn't that well-known...which kind of leads to many other issues it needs to deal with. Every game lives and dies with its playerbase, and yes, every game relies on players "selling" the game. Some games get added help with advertising, but it's the players themselves who help rocket a game to success or failure. A bad rep, or an inaccurate rep, or no rep at all, hurts a game. Awareness driven and spread by players is especially needed when other avenues of advertisement aren't utilized (ex: media coverage, player reviews, and more traditional media as well).
VG relying on the same word-of-mouth from players that many other games do, does not deem it a failure. Certainly when you take into account more of the situation it is in as a whole, and in relation to it being in the SOE stable of games (and thusly with how SOE handles that stable). My point is that it isn't unusual with a SOE game, and understanding at least a little with how SOE shares the wealth amongst that stable helps to explain, again, VG's current "predicament" and how that can be turned around.
I certainly don't believe in the fanciful notion that SOE is purposefully strangling the game so that its "baby" EQ2 can thrive. Two different games targeting different play styles and, above all, SOE is a business with a pretty clear system. Even the VG devs have explained how it works and have alluded to what it would take for VG to get more resources. Like them or hate them, SOE isn't strangling the game. I see a lot of sense behind how they run their business, and I can understand how other players would think it "wrong" or "misguided." I see both perspectives, and understanding it, I can understand how easily it would be for VG to get out of that "revolving door" cycle. But again, the catalyst is the players. That's my point.
That's why I say its going to take a miracle. VG's population is as small as anything, but think of how many in the game are actually trying to get the game out. Not many. Most just stop bothering because of SOE's business model. I understand their model also. But at this time, 3 years later, some players just said forget it and play their game. SOE needs to give another reason to bring in players, I mean hell this may be far-fetched but if they say "We get x number of recruited players we'll be able to get another dev" or an incentive. A refer-a-friend program always comes to mind. But we know the expenses, it will take a ton of new players along keeping older players to jut out some new support from SOE.
That's why I say its going to take a miracle. VG's population is as small as anything, but think of how many in the game are actually trying to get the game out. Not many. Most just stop bothering because of SOE's business model. I understand their model also. But at this time, 3 years later, some players just said forget it and play their game. SOE needs to give another reason to bring in players, I mean hell this may be far-fetched but if they say "We get x number of recruited players we'll be able to get another dev" or an incentive. A refer-a-friend program always comes to mind. But we know the expenses, it will take a ton of new players along keeping older players to jut out some new support from SOE.
I suppose it could be considered a miracle by some. ;p I agree, something more should come from SOE's end...but knowing how their system works, it's largely in our hands. Anyway...I think I'm going to log in now for some VG fun. I'll leave it with this, to everyone in general: If this game thrives or dies, it will have been determined by gamers, not SOE. Hopefully people who enjoy such features offered by VG won't let a good game die, but we gamers can be a fickle lot and it can certainly happen. Would be a shame...VG offers a lot that other games don't have the guts/desire/ability to.
That's why I say its going to take a miracle. VG's population is as small as anything, but think of how many in the game are actually trying to get the game out. Not many. Most just stop bothering because of SOE's business model. I understand their model also. But at this time, 3 years later, some players just said forget it and play their game. SOE needs to give another reason to bring in players, I mean hell this may be far-fetched but if they say "We get x number of recruited players we'll be able to get another dev" or an incentive. A refer-a-friend program always comes to mind. But we know the expenses, it will take a ton of new players along keeping older players to jut out some new support from SOE.
I suppose it could be considered a miracle by some. ;p I agree, something more should come from SOE's end...but knowing how their system works, it's largely in our hands. Anyway...I think I'm going to log in now for some VG fun. I'll leave it with this, to everyone in general: If this game thrives or dies, it will have been determined by gamers, not SOE. Hopefully people who enjoy such features offered by VG won't let a good game die, but we gamers can be a fickle lot and it can certainly happen. Would be a shame...VG offers a lot that other games don't have the guts/desire/ability to.
If not so many of us had had to deal with $OE before- Then it would (possibly) be up to the players.
$OE has the worst reputation in MMO's by a longshot- And they did that to themselves. Thats why Vangard will never be a success- Because $OE is a company to avoid (although they probably have the most potential GAMEWISE) and until $OE does something to change their reputation (by making the first "move" as it were) they will continue to be avoided and will continue to adapt towards RMT and FTP games (and hybrids) which will further erode their base .
$OE seems to be moving into a direction many despise- $OE is unwilling to advertise in traditional methods (they claim "word of mouth" is the only way) $OE is unwilling to listen to their players and has the shoddiest C.S. team on the planet. $OE pays Mods to "overly moderate" ANYTHING CRITICAL from their Forum but wont pay devs to fix known issues. (in other words they pay for "damage control" rather than fixing things to begin with.)
$OE wants "word of mouth" advertising? Then $OE should start to care (about more than cutting cost's and upping profit margins) because word of mouth on $OE products is NOT GOOD.
Anyhow- VG has/had great potential but due to $OE (not their customers) its destined to flop.
That's why I say its going to take a miracle. VG's population is as small as anything, but think of how many in the game are actually trying to get the game out. Not many. Most just stop bothering because of SOE's business model. I understand their model also. But at this time, 3 years later, some players just said forget it and play their game. SOE needs to give another reason to bring in players, I mean hell this may be far-fetched but if they say "We get x number of recruited players we'll be able to get another dev" or an incentive. A refer-a-friend program always comes to mind. But we know the expenses, it will take a ton of new players along keeping older players to jut out some new support from SOE.
I suppose it could be considered a miracle by some. ;p I agree, something more should come from SOE's end...but knowing how their system works, it's largely in our hands. Anyway...I think I'm going to log in now for some VG fun. I'll leave it with this, to everyone in general: If this game thrives or dies, it will have been determined by gamers, not SOE. Hopefully people who enjoy such features offered by VG won't let a good game die, but we gamers can be a fickle lot and it can certainly happen. Would be a shame...VG offers a lot that other games don't have the guts/desire/ability to.
If not so many of us had had to deal with $OE before- Then it would (possibly) be up to the players.
$OE has the worst reputation in MMO's by a longshot- And they did that to themselves. Thats why Vangard will never be a success- Because $OE is a company to avoid (although they probably have the most potential GAMEWISE) and until $OE does something to change their reputation (by making the first "move" as it were) they will continue to be avoided and will continue to adapt towards RMT and FTP games (and hybrids) which will further erode their base .
$OE seems to be moving into a direction many despise- $OE is unwilling to advertise in traditional methods (they claim "word of mouth" is the only way) $OE is unwilling to listen to their players and has the shoddiest C.S. team on the planet. $OE pays Mods to "overly moderate" ANYTHING CRITICAL from their Forum but wont pay devs to fix known issues. (in other words they pay for "damage control" rather than fixing things to begin with.)
$OE wants "word of mouth" advertising? Then $OE should start to care (about more than cutting cost's and upping profit margins) because word of mouth on $OE products is NOT GOOD.
Anyhow- VG has/had great potential but due to $OE (not their customers) its destined to flop.
It's still up to the players. You hate SOE, I think people get that, but SOE isn't some evil demonic force out to destroy the gaming world. They're a business, and they made a serious miscalculation with one of their business decisions. Seems they may have learned from it, and maybe they are striving to make some sort of amends for it. Heck, they're giving another go with Planetside, so we'll see how that one turns out.
SOE has, for a long time, refused to advertise for all of their games in their stable, unless that game is successful enough that it can budget for it, and then choose to advertise themselves. So far as their C.S. team, I've never had issues with them and have always received a pretty prompt response to any C.S.-related issues that have cropped up in VG (which haven't been many, admittedly). Nor have I seen a great deal of harsh moderation occuring at the VG forum. I see enough critical, but well thought-out posts, on the forums that have been there for a good while, so that makes your claims a tad difficult to believe. Apparently the "nazi moderation" isn't, perhaps, so rampant.
Again, it won't be due to SOE that VG fails or succeeds, but players. Because that, it appears, is how SOE's business model works these days.
Comments
Are MMO fans really this stupid ? Why is vanguard a should of been game.It is like your Dad is sick in hospital with a broken arm and the doctor say he is going to die,The nurse says he is going to die,everybody keep on saying die when he going to be fine.
Why are people making vanguard dead?
It has better graphics than WoW,It has way better graphics than darkfall
It is good mix of Open World and Quests
It is one deepest mmo with player housing,crafting and diplomacy
MMO can never recover from a bad start ? A game can fix all problems players had but since the game made mistake in beginning people won't play it.The funniest thing players would medicore new games instead given Vanguard a try agian.
You want to know sad part is Sony was to cancel Vanguard,Wait three months start a beta test for a game called " Wanguard",then hype it and 2 month later release "Wanguard".I willing to bet all money in the i have in the bank,that mmo fans will eat up like hot cakes.
I am going to tell you truth i have tried Vanguard twice,the first time as a trial,the second time i played for about two months.I have not played the game in about 7 months.I stop playing because i am big pvper and i could not find people to play with.I don't hold a grudge with my games i willing to give any game a second and third chance if the game might be fun the next time.
This is one amazig game if you like exploration/crafting/pve, has great communty i still play this game from time to time ,always bouncing between this game and LOTRO,
I would recommend this game to anyone if you are bored of your favorite MMO, it's a really good change .
Having the best graphics doesn't mean its the better game.
Having an open world doesn't mean the mechanics are always intact.
Having deep gameplay is great but when you screw other areas, it rather makes the gameplay seem dry.
Vanguard simply is not the game for today's MMO market. Good start/bad start. Regardless if we love it or hate it, the MMO industry has changed. EQ style games simply won't make it unless they are done correctly and supported 110%. Its unfortunate VG doesn't have either or. Not saying its VG's fault, SOE runs the show. Talk to them.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
Definitely play Seradon. The most populated sever. Well, that and Xeth.
Thanks!
Vanguard is a tricky one for me. It's clearly an awesome MMO despite it's bugs. My problem is I'll play it for a month or two think it's the best thing ever and then stop playing. Usually it's after I start comparing where the game is now to where it should have been and I start to see the signs of the game being on life support.
VG could be really strong if SOE gave it the time of day but they don't - so why should I still give them any money? It's depressing seeing so much potential pissed away and dietracts from my enjoyment of it. I've played the various EQs for years and they are constantly upgrading those games, VG gets nothing yet the subscription cost is exactly the same.
Currently Playing: The Game
It's NOT a SOE product, they just purchased the game othervise it would have been closed now. What would you have suggested instead ?
Umm, what? SoE was involved before release. They took over as publisher before release and also in beta 4 / open beta got their devs mitts in the works. When SoE got involved and forced Sigil to rush it out the door on threat of dropping being the publisher Sigil had no choice but to release it. Sigil even stated they wanted 2 extra months before release and was shot down by SoE who was the new cash fund. I was in the game in beta 2 being one of the oldest followers of the game for 5 years before release when it was just an idea and nothing had started. The game had huge huge potential on what Sigil said they wanted and how it looked in beta 2 and 3. However come beta 4 with open beta drastic changes were made and much needed fixes didn't happen. The game became trashed in 2-3 weeks of SoE involvement because SoE wanted a new title out right then.
Nice to see other people posting about VG, so thanks OP. ^^ Yes, this game has its issues...vast majority of games do. But VG gets a lot right...not many games offer the things VG offers. And yes, SOE doesn't advertise for VG as they should, since it really is a diamond in the rough...but then they don't do a lot of active advertising for their other IP's (EQ, EQ2, Freerealms, etc.). Yes, sometimes there are ads...but per the VG devs (if I recall correctly), each SOE game needs to pull its own weight after the initial investment/honeymoon period wears off.
These games need to generate their own advertisement budgets if they want advertisements, and most probably decide to forgo that to budget other things instead. Personally, I think SOE is foolish to not push their games, but that's their business decision. Pretty much, then, it's up to gamers to decide if they want this (or any other SOE-published game) to succeed or fail.
Frankly, there's nothing that comes close to offering the breadth and depth that VG has in its current state (even without there being any expansions). Whether that's a testament to just how awesome a game VG is, or how bad the slate of MMO offerings there are in the market, is for others to debate.
What I know: VG offers a lot of things that other games can't touch. It offers me a world, not just a game that shuffles you from zone to zone in a clearly defined pathway, without the option for deviation. I'm a player that really enjoys a world to boxed in zones, and the freedom to go where I want when I want (even if it means I'm likely going to die from that powerful flying mob coming over the mountains -- mountains I could cross had I the will and the means).
The vast majority of VG's ills would be cured with a higher stable population. Yes, it's getting clearer the population is improving. (I know, I know, we're always saying that...but that's because it is.) And that's a good thing.
Yes, I wish it would improve faster...but it's still going up. Just the other day, I noticed server pops being labeled at "Medium." That's new. That's very good. 
And others are, apparently, noticing that.
And why would this cure VG's ills? Because many of VG's ills are directly tied to the population. Because resources available to SOE games are driven by their sub numbers. And if VG's subs go up, then VG can be afforded that larger dev team, which means more and faster content updates and bug patches.
This is why I say, and will keep saying it: If you don't like VG because it's just not your preferred style of gameplay (which is certainly fair enough), then fine. But for those who enjoy VG, who want to see it succeed, I would hope you would hang on with VG and support it, instead of dumping it because of population issues. Mentoring's in, and there are several ways to help get groups if you want to. But yes, get the word out about Vanguard, because the game has improved and the sad reality is that not many even know of the game. The only way it'll reach that potential many of us would like to see (including me, who hung around for VG pre-launch and knew what that potential was/could be), is if we support it. Because that (like it or not) is how SOE rolls with their games.
I enjoyed VG but after getting to like level 25 and seeing virtually no one I decided that its time to stop playing. I play MMO's to play in groups and see a thriving community, lack of that kills an MMO for me.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
It really does depend on where you are (server and locale). There's no getting around it...if you aren't on Seradon or Xeth, it'll be a lot harder to find people. You can search them out, use the chat, etc., but you'll have to actively find them. Doesn't help when people can literally disappear into the world (be it the wilderness, skies, or oceans).
It also helps a lot to bring friends with you to play with, to maybe set something up with another player on the forums, to join a guild asap, etc. It varies, and I have a feeling that the server could be at capacity and you'd still have times when you wouldn't find other players while wandering around. Goes back to the world being realistically spaced out and not having funneled content.
But yeah, to each his own I suppose. If you're looking for that "world's bursting at the seams with people popping out of every corner" kind of population, VG would probably never fill that need.
Thought struck me (an aside, not a bash of any sort): that's probably why a lot of more modern MMO's still cling to that "zones & instances" formula...zones and instances keep people packed together in clearly defined "boxes" and there's nowhere for people to hide, therefore creating that sense that there's a lot of people all around you. In VG, you don't have those boxes so people, instead of being funneled together, spread out all over the place. Might explain some things. ^^
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
stuff and things
It's NOT a SOE product, they just purchased the game othervise it would have been closed now. What would you have suggested instead ?
Umm, what? SoE was involved before release. They took over as publisher before release and also in beta 4 / open beta got their devs mitts in the works. When SoE got involved and forced Sigil to rush it out the door on threat of dropping being the publisher Sigil had no choice but to release it. Sigil even stated they wanted 2 extra months before release and was shot down by SoE who was the new cash fund. I was in the game in beta 2 being one of the oldest followers of the game for 5 years before release when it was just an idea and nothing had started. The game had huge huge potential on what Sigil said they wanted and how it looked in beta 2 and 3. However come beta 4 with open beta drastic changes were made and much needed fixes didn't happen. The game became trashed in 2-3 weeks of SoE involvement because SoE wanted a new title out right then.
That is completely wrong. Soe had no rights at all except to publish. Sigil ran out of money. Without financial backing of microsoft, it was either release soon with an unfinished product or toss the whole thing.
Sigil made sure Soe had no say whatsoever when they first brought them in. Later they sold the rights because the game was a disaster basically and they needed to salvage something. I was in beta also. It was not even close to ready. Everyone knew it, including the devs, they just had no choice with no money
Sigil figured would have been better to release earlier and hope to fix/ complete on the go, than just sell it to Soe. Well, it didn't work out and they ended up selling to soe after all, lol.
As far as the game, I've gone back a couple times. Once, it was running smoothly for me. I was really enjoying it. I had to stop playing for various reasons. I went back maybe 6 months later and the game was nearly unplayable. it regressed for me. Haven't been back since. Maybe on one of those free weeks or so they give every now and then.
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff.
Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between.
On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
Why would you think that? What bargaining power did Sigil have in this arangement? What could they possibly offer to make soe hand over piles of money without any control in the project?
Sigil was a company that had lost their funding and were being abandoned by microsoft, because they were failing to produce.
Soe could dictate whatever terms they wanted to sigil, because they had all the barganing power. That is exactly why soe cut funding when they did.
The end result is that Sigil was a massive failure under microsoft and soe picked up the failure and did not do anything to turn the project around. I don't blame soe, because they come out in a far better position if Sigil failed, which is exactly what happened.
They eliminated a game that was squarely aimed at their primary customers in EQ/EQ2.
They got another title for station pass.
They got to look like the heros for "saved" the game from death.
They also got to hire a mass of very mismanaged, but talented developers who they could put into their farm system (keeping only those that show potential). Keep in mind soe had 3 major projects in the works at that time and talent is scarce.
I just don't see how Sigil could dictate anything in the position they were in. As the old saying goes 'he who has the money makes the rules' and Sigil did not have any money.
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff.
Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between.
On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
I applaud you and your enthusiasm for the game. I reall do. But all n all, the number of players who support and attempt to get the game's name out are far out-weighted by those who have tried the game and who shun the game. That's why you won't see VG getting the support it needs in any near future. Simply stated, VG is a game that offers something that others don't, but the areas it lacks in are the reasons why its in its tiny hole currently. I know everyone compares the great MMO comebacks to EVE Online and they have every right to do so. But what did EVE have that VG doesn't have? A supportive company. You can have the super cool classes, great concepts, the whole nine. But if you don't have the BACKBONE that keeps these games going, its not going to be worth half a damn in the long run. In today's industry, people are looking for that long-run security and quite frankly, VG has always been a cloudy one. That's the problem.
Case in point, if the game is so great it should sell itself. I've done my fair share of potential viral marketing for the game (trust me I have), but it struck me that it will take a mircale, and I do mean a mircale for SOE to realize and put this game into a better position. I've helped noobs, too many of them in fact, but the one thing they thanked me for is that I didn't sugar coat anything, Thats the only problem I have with these kinds of post, that they are sugar-coated to no end. Why do you think you don't see people who've seen all the content advertising the game? Because they know if they posted their experiences of what the game offers truly, it wouldn't be something to sell.
Yes, the game has shapened up over the years, no one is doubting that one bit. But in the end, they are still making very bad decisions and takes months to reverse them into playable conditions. I mean lets talk about the raid game, VG does not appeal to end-game raiders (no I'm not talking about the 24/7 raiders) but those who want to hit some raid content in general. Why? Because its not promising and has a cloudy future (Note APW, note HoSs, note Overlands).
And as for guilds, yes you mentioned the 2 biggest casual guilds on Seradon, but what about the number of guilds the game has pushed away? Again, all I ask is VG players who want to spread the word of Vanguard, do it, but do it honestly. Cover all corners and I guarantee you, you will see much more dedicated players coming to the game because they will know first hand what they are getting into.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff.
Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between.
On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
I applaud you and your enthusiasm for the game. I reall do. But all n all, the number of players who support and attempt to get the game's name out are far out-weighted by those who have tried the game and who shun the game. That's why you won't see VG getting the support it needs in any near future. Simply stated, VG is a game that offers something that others don't, but the areas it lacks in are the reasons why its in its tiny hole currently. I know everyone compares the great MMO comebacks to EVE Online and they have every right to do so. But what did EVE have that VG doesn't have? A supportive company. You can have the super cool classes, great concepts, the whole nine. But if you don't have the BACKBONE that keeps these games going, its not going to be worth half a damn in the long run. In today's industry, people are looking for that long-run security and quite frankly, VG has always been a cloudy one. That's the problem.
Case in point, if the game is so great it should sell itself. I've done my fair share of potential viral marketing for the game (trust me I have), but it struck me that it will take a mircale, and I do mean a mircale for SOE to realize and put this game into a better position. I've helped noobs, too many of them in fact, but the one thing they thanked me for is that I didn't sugar coat anything, Thats the only problem I have with these kinds of post, that they are sugar-coated to no end. Why do you think you don't see people who've seen all the content advertising the game? Because they know if they posted their experiences of what the game offers truly, it wouldn't be something to sell.
Yes, the game has shapened up over the years, no one is doubting that one bit. But in the end, they are still making very bad decisions and takes months to reverse them into playable conditions. I mean lets talk about the raid game, VG does not appeal to end-game raiders (no I'm not talking about the 24/7 raiders) but those who want to hit some raid content in general. Why? Because its not promising and has a cloudy future (Note APW, note HoSs, note Overlands).
And as for guilds, yes you mentioned the 2 biggest casual guilds on Seradon, but what about the number of guilds the game has pushed away? Again, all I ask is VG players who want to spread the word of Vanguard, do it, but do it honestly. Cover all corners and I guarantee you, you will see much more dedicated players coming to the game because they will know first hand what they are getting into.
*sigh* I'm certainly not clouded to the game's faults, and I'm definitely not clouded by the game's potential. Reality is what it is, but it's also clear VG is a solid game and a lot of people don't know about it. If a miracle is going to happen, it will have to happen on the players' ends; simple as that. This game will fail if people do not play it, and people will not play it if they've never heard of it and/or they erroneously believe it's still the game that first launched. The game has potential, yes...and that potential will never be able to be realized if people don't play it.
There seems to be this sort of sense that VG is a ship long-since sailed...it isn't to that point yet, but it could very well get there...and this has little to do with SOE today. This ball is entirely in the players' court. Yes, SOE does things that don't necessarily help games...but if the devs are to be believed, then it's because SOE's business practices are to let a game thrive, limp, or fail on its own merits/success/what-have-you. They do this for just about all their games. They might pour resources into it at first, but there comes a time when they cut the umbilical cord and that game needs to walk on its own. This is not unusual amongst SOE games.
Why do I push Vanguard so "enthusiastically?" I'm tired the the same old tripe being fed into the trough for gamers these days. "New" mmos that just shovel out the same hand-holding, stifling drivel time and again, the same time-worn, archaic mechanics that should have been retired "long" ago. Vanguard's a game that embraces a lot of "old" concepts that just aren't carried out in a lot of today's newer mmos. Vast, seamless worlds, freedom, travel...they've come very close to creating an actual "world," and not just a bunch of boxes connected by impassible doors. It's the foundational philosophy driving other aspects of it. Vanguard is a good game...it's just about the only "new" game on the block that gets things like that "right." Does it still need work? You bet. Is it perfect? No. Again, though...it offers a complete experience, and a very deep experience, for players and we as gamers should support those that break the mold. What SOE has done is placed the survivability of this game into the hands of gamers...and if it sinks into an anonymous grave, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. Same with many a great but underrated game that is unheard of by the masses.
And really, if SOE wasn't supportive, if SOE really did want to just wipe out their competition, they would have pulled the plug long ago. They haven't yet and nothing's been announced in that regard. That ship does not yet need to sail, and it won't if people actually played the game, supported it, spread the word, etc. By no means am I painting SOE as a hero...but their business practices are their business practices and that's the situation dealt to us with VG, and others with their other SOE games.
I can't speak of raids except to say that, from what I understand, there's yet to be a guild to complete every bit of raid content in the game. I've heard they're pretty well-designed as well. Maybe I'm mistaken and I heard incorrectly, but raiding seems to be going fairly well in VG, for dedicated raid guilds and "casual" raid guilds as well. Are there still issues that might crop up and have to be dealt with? Yeah, but raiding is still going on. As for those who've experienced "all" the content in VG, I haven't heard of/from them period. I have heard from individuals who've stuck with the game since launch and who actually still enjoy the game, however, and who even claim to still discover new things in it.
And perhaps the game is selling itself, ever so slowly. People gradually discover it and spread the word about it...and then others try it. I've noticed the servers growing...maybe not quickly, but they are incrementally improving it seems. Perhaps eventually a stable enough population can establish itself and VG can get out of the cycle that's been perpetuated by disenfranchised players.
I mentioned the 2 largest guilds on Seradon and was very clear as to what they were. Seemed pretty honest to me. I also mentioned there are many other guilds as well. Because guess what? There are. Yes, there are guilds that have left...and there are guilds that are newly forming even very recently. Like any other game, some rise and thrive, others fall to the wayside. That's the nature of any mmo.
You seem to think I'm here to sugar-coat the game. I'm not. I've been quite critical of it in the past, but realistically so. I also still believe this game, for all its hardships, still offers more for players than even the tripe new games push these days. I'm not going to brow-beat someone into thinking this game isn't all that but they should still play it. I'm going to tell them exactly what I think: again, that this is a game that offers some amazing features in spite of the scars and wounds, and most anything else can't even touch it..
How is the VG community out of game? Are the official forums active and receptive to new people? Are there lots of guilds or only a big exclusive few?
VG community seems pretty solid out of game. On the slow side, of course, but active (most game forums are populated with only a fraction of the actual subscriber base, so a smaller subscriber base usually means a smaller forum presence). Overall it is pretty mature, and yes you'll have malcontents (but even they seem a cut above what you'd find on many other mmo forums). Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always chatter of some sort on the forums, and I'll see new threads and replies daily. The community's very receptive to new players, and if you post in the Newbie forum I would be greatly surprised if you were never at least welcomed. I don't think I've ever seen a thread in there go unanswered (granted, I suppose I could be wrong, but it would be so outside the norm you would be able to tie-die me and I wouldn't be less surprised).
I should say, don't expect to see a lot of "fluff" threads clogging up the forums...when people post threads, it's usually a focused discussion of some sort and you don't see a lot of fluff.
Not that I think it would be unwelcome in the Off Topic thread. ^^
The number of guilds and the variety of guilds that are established (or starting up, even...I know there've been a handful of new ones advertising on the forums lately) varies depending on your server. There are lots of guilds on Seradon and Xeth, by virtue of those being the two most populated servers. And the types of guilds you will run across will cross the normal gamut of styles (hardcore raid, casual raid, straight-up casual, family friendly, newbie-friendly, etc.) Those are tags I see pretty often for a variety of guilds.
You have large, long-established guilds, smaller but well-established guilds, and newer ones finding their legs, and everything in-between.
On Seradon, The Platinum Order (TPO) and Safe Haven are two of the bigger ones I hear a lot about, but there are a good number of other guilds you could look into if those two weren't your thing.
If you go searching for guilds ingame, it's incredibly helpful to use the Social Window ("O" key). This window has a Guild tab that you can select to search for guilds that are recruiting, and to see who has recruiters ingame at that time. You can see what tags they ascribe to their guild (such as those I listed above), as well as text blurbs about them.
I applaud you and your enthusiasm for the game. I reall do. But all n all, the number of players who support and attempt to get the game's name out are far out-weighted by those who have tried the game and who shun the game. That's why you won't see VG getting the support it needs in any near future. Simply stated, VG is a game that offers something that others don't, but the areas it lacks in are the reasons why its in its tiny hole currently. I know everyone compares the great MMO comebacks to EVE Online and they have every right to do so. But what did EVE have that VG doesn't have? A supportive company. You can have the super cool classes, great concepts, the whole nine. But if you don't have the BACKBONE that keeps these games going, its not going to be worth half a damn in the long run. In today's industry, people are looking for that long-run security and quite frankly, VG has always been a cloudy one. That's the problem.
Case in point, if the game is so great it should sell itself. I've done my fair share of potential viral marketing for the game (trust me I have), but it struck me that it will take a mircale, and I do mean a mircale for SOE to realize and put this game into a better position. I've helped noobs, too many of them in fact, but the one thing they thanked me for is that I didn't sugar coat anything, Thats the only problem I have with these kinds of post, that they are sugar-coated to no end. Why do you think you don't see people who've seen all the content advertising the game? Because they know if they posted their experiences of what the game offers truly, it wouldn't be something to sell.
Yes, the game has shapened up over the years, no one is doubting that one bit. But in the end, they are still making very bad decisions and takes months to reverse them into playable conditions. I mean lets talk about the raid game, VG does not appeal to end-game raiders (no I'm not talking about the 24/7 raiders) but those who want to hit some raid content in general. Why? Because its not promising and has a cloudy future (Note APW, note HoSs, note Overlands).
And as for guilds, yes you mentioned the 2 biggest casual guilds on Seradon, but what about the number of guilds the game has pushed away? Again, all I ask is VG players who want to spread the word of Vanguard, do it, but do it honestly. Cover all corners and I guarantee you, you will see much more dedicated players coming to the game because they will know first hand what they are getting into.
*sigh* I'm certainly not clouded to the game's faults, and I'm definitely not clouded by the game's potential. Reality is what it is, but it's also clear VG is a solid game and a lot of people don't know about it. If a miracle is going to happen, it will have to happen on the players' ends; simple as that. This game will fail if people do not play it, and people will not play it if they've never heard of it and/or they erroneously believe it's still the game that first launched. The game has potential, yes...and that potential will never be able to be realized if people don't play it.
There seems to be this sort of sense that VG is a ship long-since sailed...it isn't to that point yet, but it could very well get there...and this has little to do with SOE today. This ball is entirely in the players' court. Yes, SOE does things that don't necessarily help games...but if the devs are to be believed, then it's because SOE's business practices are to let a game thrive, limp, or fail on its own merits/success/what-have-you. They do this for just about all their games. They might pour resources into it at first, but there comes a time when they cut the umbilical cord and that game needs to walk on its own. This is not unusual amongst SOE games.
Why do I push Vanguard so "enthusiastically?" I'm tired the the same old tripe being fed into the trough for gamers these days. "New" mmos that just shovel out the same hand-holding, stifling drivel time and again, the same time-worn, archaic mechanics that should have been retired "long" ago. Vanguard's a game that embraces a lot of "old" concepts that just aren't carried out in a lot of today's newer mmos. Vast, seamless worlds, freedom, travel...they've come very close to creating an actual "world," and not just a bunch of boxes connected by impassible doors. It's the foundational philosophy driving other aspects of it. Vanguard is a good game...it's just about the only "new" game on the block that gets things like that "right." Does it still need work? You bet. Is it perfect? No. Again, though...it offers a complete experience, and a very deep experience, for players and we as gamers should support those that break the mold. What SOE has done is placed the survivability of this game into the hands of gamers...and if it sinks into an anonymous grave, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. Same with many a great but underrated game that is unheard of by the masses.
And really, if SOE wasn't supportive, if SOE really did want to just wipe out their competition, they would have pulled the plug long ago. They haven't yet and nothing's been announced in that regard. That ship does not yet need to sail, and it won't if people actually played the game, supported it, spread the word, etc. By no means am I painting SOE as a hero...but their business practices are their business practices and that's the situation dealt to us with VG, and others with their other SOE games.
I can't speak of raids except to say that, from what I understand, there's yet to be a guild to complete every bit of raid content in the game. I've heard they're pretty well-designed as well. Maybe I'm mistaken and I heard incorrectly, but raiding seems to be going fairly well in VG, for dedicated raid guilds and "casual" raid guilds as well. Are there still issues that might crop up and have to be dealt with? Yeah, but raiding is still going on. As for those who've experienced "all" the content in VG, I haven't heard of/from them period. I have heard from individuals who've stuck with the game since launch and who actually still enjoy the game, however, and who even claim to still discover new things in it.
And perhaps the game is selling itself, ever so slowly. People gradually discover it and spread the word about it...and then others try it. I've noticed the servers growing...maybe not quickly, but they are incrementally improving it seems. Perhaps eventually a stable enough population can establish itself and VG can get out of the cycle that's been perpetuated by disenfranchised players.
I mentioned the 2 largest guilds on Seradon and was very clear as to what they were. Seemed pretty honest to me. I also mentioned there are many other guilds as well. Because guess what? There are. Yes, there are guilds that have left...and there are guilds that are newly forming even very recently. Like any other game, some rise and thrive, others fall to the wayside. That's the nature of any mmo.
You seem to think I'm here to sugar-coat the game. I'm not. I've been quite critical of it in the past, but realistically so. I also still believe this game, for all its hardships, still offers more for players than even the tripe new games push these days. I'm not going to brow-beat someone into thinking this game isn't all that but they should still play it. I'm going to tell them exactly what I think: again, that this is a game that offers some amazing features in spite of the scars and wounds, and most anything else can't even touch it..
Any game thats in the hands of the players of getting back on its feet. Then its deemed for failure. SOE won't pull the plug because they KNOW its not in competition with other games in its current state and they can milk that small % of the market.
As for VG not holding your hand. I'll be the first to say (not really the first). But Vanguard is a very easy game. From my start, to the current state in VG, the only thing that was challenged was my patience. Lets just be honest, the only depth the game has to offer is its races and classes. As for raiding, raid content has been all completed numerous times up until they started releasing content that was openly bugged and wasn't fixed until months after (I can provide examples).
But here's the misconception. The fact is Vanguard is WELL known in the MMO community. Com'on, VG was hyped rediculously when it was launched and was known for the first year or so. Of course newer players coming into the industry won't know about it, but again like I posted, the current satisfied players of VG are far outweighed by the "disgruntled, former players". And of course its always the "their word" vs. "your word".
Like I said, this is a matter of opinion. I recently cancelled my sub about 5 days ago. I've seen everything the game has to offer and then some. This is why I say its going to have to take a miracle that expands over the course of a year or so for VG to get back on its feet because the retention rate is simply horrible, that's my kicking point. People are claiming the population is growing, it seems that way but they can only measure the lower end. The higher end/veteran area of VG is dying off itself.
This is not claiming the game is dying, its the fact its a rotating door and it rotates faster than any MMO I've played. The fact that VG's fate lies in getting more players, that's already saying the writing is on the wall because you have to gain players over time and while that's happening more games/options are becoming available.
Maybe its just me, maybe I'm crazy but if I had to pick between a game that's supposedly deeper, more diverse, but barely supported to a game that is highly supported, not as deep, but has a better chance of becoming so, of course I would go with the one that's supported more because the chances are better.
I guess what I'm getting at with my WoT, something more has to be offered with these VG advertisement posts than what goes on in the game. Players are WAY too critical today than they were 5 years ago, there needs to be a much more firm belief that this can be my home the next 2 - 3 years down the stretch. And from my interactions with development, raid testing, content testing, personally I do not see it nor did I feel it.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
I played vanguard at launch. yes it was bad but it was an awesome game. i was hooked because it was made by the orig creative genius's behind EQ and have to say i was not let down by it at all. i was one of the first people top build a sloop and if you are looking for an updated version of EQ than this game is for you. it has the same feel, large world, scary dungeons and it is basicly the same thing, this game is a real winner and i wish there would be just more people who would consider playing it.
Woot for VG.
The wife and I have just brought the game each, not installed it yet but looking forward to it. We both loved EQ2 and are hoping that this will be as much fun.
You dont need eyes to see, you just need vision.
That is good to hear. Play on Seradon. My name is Volition in-game, if you ever want to group up.
-Computer specs no one cares about: check.
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Let's be honest, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I happen to feel that few, if any games out there, offer what VG offers. More than just deep classes and races. But again, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as I and others are as well.
I happen to see the various reasons (and there are many variables going into this) for the game being in the state it's in, and I certainly don't believe it to be as dire as you appear to believe it. And no, at least from what I've seen, VG apparently isn't that well-known...which kind of leads to many other issues it needs to deal with. Every game lives and dies with its playerbase, and yes, every game relies on players "selling" the game. Some games get added help with advertising, but it's the players themselves who help rocket a game to success or failure. A bad rep, or an inaccurate rep, or no rep at all, hurts a game. Awareness driven and spread by players is especially needed when other avenues of advertisement aren't utilized (ex: media coverage, player reviews, and more traditional media as well).
VG relying on the same word-of-mouth from players that many other games do, does not deem it a failure. Certainly when you take into account more of the situation it is in as a whole, and in relation to it being in the SOE stable of games (and thusly with how SOE handles that stable). My point is that it isn't unusual with a SOE game, and understanding at least a little with how SOE shares the wealth amongst that stable helps to explain, again, VG's current "predicament" and how that can be turned around.
I certainly don't believe in the fanciful notion that SOE is purposefully strangling the game so that its "baby" EQ2 can thrive. Two different games targeting different play styles and, above all, SOE is a business with a pretty clear system. Even the VG devs have explained how it works and have alluded to what it would take for VG to get more resources. Like them or hate them, SOE isn't strangling the game. I see a lot of sense behind how they run their business, and I can understand how other players would think it "wrong" or "misguided." I see both perspectives, and understanding it, I can understand how easily it would be for VG to get out of that "revolving door" cycle. But again, the catalyst is the players. That's my point.
Let's be honest, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I happen to feel that few, if any games out there, offer what VG offers. More than just deep classes and races. But again, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as I and others are as well.
I happen to see the various reasons (and there are many variables going into this) for the game being in the state it's in, and I certainly don't believe it to be as dire as you appear to believe it. And no, at least from what I've seen, VG apparently isn't that well-known...which kind of leads to many other issues it needs to deal with. Every game lives and dies with its playerbase, and yes, every game relies on players "selling" the game. Some games get added help with advertising, but it's the players themselves who help rocket a game to success or failure. A bad rep, or an inaccurate rep, or no rep at all, hurts a game. Awareness driven and spread by players is especially needed when other avenues of advertisement aren't utilized (ex: media coverage, player reviews, and more traditional media as well).
VG relying on the same word-of-mouth from players that many other games do, does not deem it a failure. Certainly when you take into account more of the situation it is in as a whole, and in relation to it being in the SOE stable of games (and thusly with how SOE handles that stable). My point is that it isn't unusual with a SOE game, and understanding at least a little with how SOE shares the wealth amongst that stable helps to explain, again, VG's current "predicament" and how that can be turned around.
I certainly don't believe in the fanciful notion that SOE is purposefully strangling the game so that its "baby" EQ2 can thrive. Two different games targeting different play styles and, above all, SOE is a business with a pretty clear system. Even the VG devs have explained how it works and have alluded to what it would take for VG to get more resources. Like them or hate them, SOE isn't strangling the game. I see a lot of sense behind how they run their business, and I can understand how other players would think it "wrong" or "misguided." I see both perspectives, and understanding it, I can understand how easily it would be for VG to get out of that "revolving door" cycle. But again, the catalyst is the players. That's my point.
That's why I say its going to take a miracle. VG's population is as small as anything, but think of how many in the game are actually trying to get the game out. Not many. Most just stop bothering because of SOE's business model. I understand their model also. But at this time, 3 years later, some players just said forget it and play their game. SOE needs to give another reason to bring in players, I mean hell this may be far-fetched but if they say "We get x number of recruited players we'll be able to get another dev" or an incentive. A refer-a-friend program always comes to mind. But we know the expenses, it will take a ton of new players along keeping older players to jut out some new support from SOE.
Rift: Storm Legion Raid Progression Tracker
I suppose it could be considered a miracle by some. ;p I agree, something more should come from SOE's end...but knowing how their system works, it's largely in our hands. Anyway...I think I'm going to log in now for some VG fun. I'll leave it with this, to everyone in general: If this game thrives or dies, it will have been determined by gamers, not SOE. Hopefully people who enjoy such features offered by VG won't let a good game die, but we gamers can be a fickle lot and it can certainly happen. Would be a shame...VG offers a lot that other games don't have the guts/desire/ability to.
i just cant bring myself to give money to Sony online ever again.
I suppose it could be considered a miracle by some. ;p I agree, something more should come from SOE's end...but knowing how their system works, it's largely in our hands. Anyway...I think I'm going to log in now for some VG fun. I'll leave it with this, to everyone in general: If this game thrives or dies, it will have been determined by gamers, not SOE. Hopefully people who enjoy such features offered by VG won't let a good game die, but we gamers can be a fickle lot and it can certainly happen. Would be a shame...VG offers a lot that other games don't have the guts/desire/ability to.
If not so many of us had had to deal with $OE before- Then it would (possibly) be up to the players.
$OE has the worst reputation in MMO's by a longshot- And they did that to themselves. Thats why Vangard will never be a success- Because $OE is a company to avoid (although they probably have the most potential GAMEWISE) and until $OE does something to change their reputation (by making the first "move" as it were) they will continue to be avoided and will continue to adapt towards RMT and FTP games (and hybrids) which will further erode their base .
$OE seems to be moving into a direction many despise- $OE is unwilling to advertise in traditional methods (they claim "word of mouth" is the only way) $OE is unwilling to listen to their players and has the shoddiest C.S. team on the planet. $OE pays Mods to "overly moderate" ANYTHING CRITICAL from their Forum but wont pay devs to fix known issues. (in other words they pay for "damage control" rather than fixing things to begin with.)
$OE wants "word of mouth" advertising? Then $OE should start to care (about more than cutting cost's and upping profit margins) because word of mouth on $OE products is NOT GOOD.
Anyhow- VG has/had great potential but due to $OE (not their customers) its destined to flop.
I suppose it could be considered a miracle by some. ;p I agree, something more should come from SOE's end...but knowing how their system works, it's largely in our hands. Anyway...I think I'm going to log in now for some VG fun. I'll leave it with this, to everyone in general: If this game thrives or dies, it will have been determined by gamers, not SOE. Hopefully people who enjoy such features offered by VG won't let a good game die, but we gamers can be a fickle lot and it can certainly happen. Would be a shame...VG offers a lot that other games don't have the guts/desire/ability to.
If not so many of us had had to deal with $OE before- Then it would (possibly) be up to the players.
$OE has the worst reputation in MMO's by a longshot- And they did that to themselves. Thats why Vangard will never be a success- Because $OE is a company to avoid (although they probably have the most potential GAMEWISE) and until $OE does something to change their reputation (by making the first "move" as it were) they will continue to be avoided and will continue to adapt towards RMT and FTP games (and hybrids) which will further erode their base .
$OE seems to be moving into a direction many despise- $OE is unwilling to advertise in traditional methods (they claim "word of mouth" is the only way) $OE is unwilling to listen to their players and has the shoddiest C.S. team on the planet. $OE pays Mods to "overly moderate" ANYTHING CRITICAL from their Forum but wont pay devs to fix known issues. (in other words they pay for "damage control" rather than fixing things to begin with.)
$OE wants "word of mouth" advertising? Then $OE should start to care (about more than cutting cost's and upping profit margins) because word of mouth on $OE products is NOT GOOD.
Anyhow- VG has/had great potential but due to $OE (not their customers) its destined to flop.
It's still up to the players. You hate SOE, I think people get that, but SOE isn't some evil demonic force out to destroy the gaming world. They're a business, and they made a serious miscalculation with one of their business decisions. Seems they may have learned from it, and maybe they are striving to make some sort of amends for it. Heck, they're giving another go with Planetside, so we'll see how that one turns out.
SOE has, for a long time, refused to advertise for all of their games in their stable, unless that game is successful enough that it can budget for it, and then choose to advertise themselves. So far as their C.S. team, I've never had issues with them and have always received a pretty prompt response to any C.S.-related issues that have cropped up in VG (which haven't been many, admittedly). Nor have I seen a great deal of harsh moderation occuring at the VG forum. I see enough critical, but well thought-out posts, on the forums that have been there for a good while, so that makes your claims a tad difficult to believe. Apparently the "nazi moderation" isn't, perhaps, so rampant.
Again, it won't be due to SOE that VG fails or succeeds, but players. Because that, it appears, is how SOE's business model works these days.