Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Open world PvP compared to Instanced.
ruiner12
Member Posts: 40
Does everyone believe there should be at least some form of open PvP in every game? If you're looking at it from a realistic perspective, and you are actually living in the world of your game, then doesn't it make sense that you'd run into your enemies at some point and get into a battle? Instanced PvP is fun in it's own way, but it can't compare to open world PvP in the suprise and intensity. To me a game without this form of PvP is lacking an essential element and will crash and burn.
Comments
MMOs without any form of open PvP do not hold my interest.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
I agree. I love open pvp.
I am not a huge PvP fan, but I do enjoy it sometimes. The number one thing I hate about PvP in most games are the scenarios. The kill and death counters always cheapen the experience. The starting of a scenario is one of the least immersive tasks I have ever done in a MMOG.
I remember how excited I was opening weekend of WAR. I get out to some open PvP areas and they are all empty. WTF it was opening weekend! Unfortunately everyone was in the scenarios because you can level up faster. What a let down!
Open-world pvp is the most intense element of an MMO imo - I love it. You just want to mine that node when out of nowhere you get the fight of your life. Honestly I don't even mind getting ganked by a high level if he let's me bleed in peace afterwards with no repetitive griefing. Keeps it interesting and exciting.
RvR is the best design.
It allows people to concentrate on PvE or crafting without being disturbed if they want to, or to engage in PvP if they want to.
FFA PvP leads to griefing.
With the RvR design you can PvE in the PvP zone, so if you like playing the game where you can always run into combat, you can do so. However, you cannot repeatedly kill someone that's trying to work on crafting if that's what he wants to do.
Open PvP often reminds people of "the good old days" like pre-1.3 WoW, UO, pre-nerf RS, or others.
The truth is that we hold these memories with a fond sense of nostalgia. They weren't really all that great. Most world pvp encounters, especially in the more modern MMOs, are one of two things:
1. Zerg - The larger army wins. There are few exceptions to this rule. WAR, for example, was deemed pointless by many players for this reason.
2. Ganks - Large groups killing a single player, or a single, high level player killing a lower level player. These encounters are one sided, do not measure skill in any way, and generally make one side pointlessly pat themselves on the back, as if they completed a job well done, while the receiving side edges closer to canceling their sub because getting killed without the chance to fight back is not fun.
I've played on WoW pvp servers since the day it launched. I played UO, RS and others back in the day. World PvP was once the best there was. These days, instanced PvP is a lot more balanced. 10v10 with objectives sure beats 100v50 in a keep battle, or 4v1 in random encounters, or a L50 against a L25 ...
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Agreed but how realistic is it? I mean if you see your sworn enemy with their guard down sitting in contested territory actually trying to craft...are you going to say to yourself..."Oh theres the guys that killed my brethren, but...I'll wait till they're finished crafting as a courtesy."..my guess is Hell no! your going to kill them and especially since you have an opportunity to get them while they are vulnerable. It's not your fault they were stupid enough to craft in a contested area.
Secondly I like the fact that you can't know the enemys level in a PvP zone because in reality how in the world are you going to be able to tell the skill level of an enemy just by looking at him/her? Your not and the fact is, just as in real life, unless you happened to do some serious recon work before hand to figure out skill level, you are going to fight and in so doing you are taking the risk that the enemy may outclass you but that's the risk your willing to take.
People don't run around with flags over their head depicting their skill level.
You make it sound like PvP is supposed to be a sport. One that is practiced between two equal parties in fair and balanced way. That may be ONE way to look at it, but it also isolates it and takes away the fear and anger that are such strong motivators. The best PvP I ever took part in was the anti-PK runs I did in UO. Its not because the fights themselves were so spectacular, but because they had a purpose. Whether it be justice, revenge, defending my home, whatever... Those fights had a purpose that was greater than getting the #1 spot on the kill counter.
No contest. Open world PvP is by far the best. If you want instanced PvP you should be playing counter strike, not an MMO.
If the MMO does not support/encourage open world PvP, then should you not support the MMO.
You make it sound like PvP is supposed to be a sport. One that is practiced between two equal parties in fair and balanced way. That may be ONE way to look at it, but it also isolates it and takes away the fear and anger that are such strong motivators. The best PvP I ever took part in was the anti-PK runs I did in UO. Its not because the fights themselves were so spectacular, but because they had a purpose. Whether it be justice, revenge, defending my home, whatever... Those fights had a purpose that was greater than getting the #1 spot on the kill counter.
Wow. I have to admit - you just brought me back to the old days. I remember anti-pk fights in UO. Something felt substantial and real about it. It was not a sport, but truly a fight that I felt invested in.
Thanks for reminding me about the non-sport side of PvP. I guess so many years of balanced fights for "honor points" made me forget.
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
One type of PvP I actually found very interesting was in SWG. You had two factions that you could switch between if you so desired, and those who wanted open world PvP got it by making themselves overt. This way the crafters who had no combat skills were able to live in peace, and the die-hard PvP freaks went all in. I was one of the die-hards and I'll admit that sometimes the zergs got annoying, but that is when you call in some friends and zerg them right back. It's all fun
I can see OPen World PvP when it serves a purpose, but if there isn't some greater aspect that it contributes to, it seems more a bother to the non-PvPers than a benefit to the PvPers. Likewise, any PvP intended to be more than just mini-sport events or point grinding is usually best handled in the world environment rather than insulated in a battleground or arena.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I love my open world PvP as well. I like that nervous feeling that comes from being in or near enemy territory or that rush you get from being jumped unprepared.
Instanced PvP is fun if I only have a few minutes to play. The mindset of a lot of people who do BGs regulary ruins my fun most of the time. I hate those guys who only do BGs at the max level and bitch everyone else out for coming in at too low of a level.
EvE has spoiled me for ever; I cant take any gome with instances seriously now.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I agree with pretty much everyone else. What game are you guys playing though?
I'm bored out of my mind right now, playing WoW for a lack of anything better to do since I still enjoy gaming with my friends, I just don't like WoW, and the more I play it the more I dislike it. This thread touches on the main reason - there's no excitement or thrill in it for me, especially in PvP which is supposed to be the most exciting. I miss world pvp something fierce.
So what game are you guys playing where you're enjoying world pvp?
open world PvP never matters, a high level char can mow down a low level char, and that low level char can just get right back up and continue on, likewise 2 equally opposing faction members can engage in an epic struggle lasting for hours, and the end result will mean nothing.
If you ever want open world PvP to succeed, you need to make it matter. One way is real competition between resources, not just to make a new robotic squirrel companion, but to build fortresses in that area etc.
Another way open PvP could matter is with a player faction system. Each time mr-grief-man-elf kills mr-victim-man-dorf, the elf gets a negative hit on dorf faction etc, which should eventually lead to NPC dwarves setting out to hunt the elf down while in their lands.
If you REALLY wanted to get fancy with faction then you could make them all relative, like MR dorf has max elf and min dark elf (inherently opposed) and neutral gnome and dwarf (his own faction), then when MR elf kills mr dorf, his elf standing goes down, DE goes up, and gnome and dwarf stays the same.
if you REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to make open world PvP worthwhile, then you could say.. make large areas controlled by NPC factions, which allow for things such as guards, patrols, barracks, and towers. And then within these you have player controlled areas and fortresses, which provide protection to major faction strongholds, while reaping the benefits of a thriving alliance. And in the middle of all of that would be a faction capitol inhabited by powerful NPC bosses (and players) all guarding against would-be aggressors. The fun would be in the fact that entire NPC factions could be conquered and taken by the enemy. Of course, racial cities would still be there, though under occupation. They would't provide any benefits really besides a place to bank and shop. It would be up to the players who are sworn to the old conquered faction to regain their lands. One faction would not have the numbers to hold everything for very long due to the demand and competition of resources in occupied lands. In this scenario it would be entirely possible for and race or alliance, like gnomes, to be permanently outcast muahah!!
Or, you could just enable perma-death, but probably only old school D2HC fans would apply. But yea, that would definitely add meaning, assuming there were no HACKS =(
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
There's more to MMOs than EQ/WOW-styled games.
For example - EVE's Open World PvP
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Nope. "looking at it from a realistic perspective" .. that is fail. Looking at it from a realistic perspective, i won't be running around throwing fireballs at mobs (or players) without going to bathroom all day.
If i want realism, i won't be playing video games. The whole POINT of video games is to do something UNREALISTIC.
They both work, but an open world without contestable resources or structures leaves a hole in the gameplay where you have the option to go berserk in FFA environments, but no reason to.
Instanced battle is great; for people with time restraints or travel restrictions between them and the good stuff.
Open World is fine too, but a clusterfuck is just that unless there is any reason to it being there.
It all deals with the people who PvP because it's fun vs the people that only do if it proves rewarding. Seeing how if people PvP just to PvP, they should be fine with instances, but when you see people talk about the greatness in FFA - it's only because of the fun in taking over and locking down and entire zone for a considerable amount of time. Without a goal structure it's really just a mess.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Yeah, I hate how these pussy MMOs have done away with the real PvP systems. Some asshole pisses you off? Go kill them. That is how EQ was. Open PvP between anyone above level 5, a level 60 can go kill newbies if they want and vice versa.
Games shouldn't have instanced PvP because it is basically a fake form of PvP. You go into a safe zone, detached from the game, just to fight each other over meaningless points. In open world PvP games guilds and players would kill each other whenever they get in each others way or if they don't like someone / some guild there would be PvP activity.
Plus if they don't have instances at all, guilds end up PvPing over the end-game content, which is good, and how all MMORPGs should be. These new games sucked the fun out of PvP by putting them in protected instances, it's just a place where newbies can go kill each other over and over for no reason, these games don't have any real PvP systems imo.
I don't mind a game having some non pvp servers, I just wouldn't play them. The PvP servers should NOT have instanced content at all, to encourage guilds fighting each other. Secondly, there should be no rules for PvP, it should be a huge FFA basically, and there should be penalties for dying. If there is no penalty for dying, then PvP is meaningless and boring.
So in summary
Real PvP MMORPG = No instances, FFA (or semi-FFA like guild-based PvP) PvP systems, no PvP instances, and some kind of penalty for dying (so retarded newbies don't keep bothering you after you kill them.)
And a combat system that lets that same noob come back and slip a knife in your back. Knife in the heart should kill the noob and the "pro" the same. If not it just turns into an epeen flexing gank fest.
Would be interesting to see someone make a MMOPVP with more than 3 factions. I don't know of any who have tried more than two since DAoC.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Personally i dont like games with instanced pvp, and would rather have free for all open world pking than RvR. But i dont think all games should be like that, to each his own...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Open world PVP only truly works in a game that does not have exponential power growth. In that sense, you need a sandbox style game where everyone is on roughly equal power levels.
Take a fight between myself and Jackie Chan. I would most likely lose such a fight, as I have no fighting skills what-so-ever. However, one lucky blow with a knife, or a surprise attack by me with a 2x4, and jackie is going down for the count.
In a game like WOW, AOC, etc the power-level growth makes even the remote outcome of my win IMPOSSIBLE. There's no way that I a lvl 20 will EVER be able to kill a lvl 50. There will be no lucky strike that allows me to win. It just won't happen.
I remember being a lvl 10 in EQ and challenging a lvl 50 paladin to a duel. He accepted for fun, and then let me swing away. The combat log went something like this:
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
You hit Paladin for 1 Damage
miss
miss
miss
you hit paladin for 1 Damage
Miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
Paladin hit you for 567 Damage
You died
I'm not sure exactly what people find "Fun", "Hardcore", or "realistic" about that.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Ok, now, I don't really mind open pvp most of the times, but admittedly, it can get pretty annoying sometimes. Getting the hell ganked out of you every 10 seconds isn't very much fun, though killing someone just before you go out is. Open world is alot of fun, but I mostly look for games with non pvp servers(switching over if I feel like it) or instances, so I can just play the game if thats what I want to do, and smack someone if thats what I want to do.