Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
There will never be a "next big one".
Distopia
Member EpicPosts: 21,183
Not in this climate, I think as a populace MMO gamers have come to expect to much. Sure recent games have had problems (and flaws), some have also been overly hyped. Which is a symptom of a saturated market IMO, not necessarily the fault of the marketing dept..To get your game noticed today you have to stir the pot, so to speak.
Is it our fault we have become this way? No, not entirely, if you look at any other genre innovation is something that's normal and frequent. There's always something new on the horizon in the single player world. Arguably this genre is still young and not quite mature. I think we as a community forget that, and tend to want too much in terms of new gimmicks, especially when many of the normal aspects of an MMO still have not been perfected.
Even the 800lb gorilla second guesses itself and it's features. That my friend in and of itself is a step toward innovation. It's just a small step, that's the problem I think for a lot of people. However, you can't scale the mountain, when you haven't even toppled the hill. That's where we are today, we're in that stage where studios want to head in different directions. Yet have not quite found that sweet spot that will capture their niche.
You can see it in the subtle differences in design, look at war compared to DAOC. AOC compared to say EQ2 (instanced based). Look at wow compared to EQ so on and so forth. On the top sure you might not notice much of a difference. However once you step in a bit further it becomes blatantly obvious, things are different. Some for the better some for worse.
That's the 100 million dollar question though, which are for the better which are for the worst? Just look at the arguments between the sandbox and the theme park alone. These are just two opposites in opinion that cause a headache to even the consumer when trying to think about which road is the least dangerous to travel.
Those two opposites are even further spread apart by the many players who's opinions sway from one extreme to another to explain what makes a game this or that. It's almost as if we don't have a middle ground any longer. It has to be this way and no other according to many opinions you see on forums like this one.The problem is which side do you cater to? Where are devs supposed to head when this is the feedback they receive?
There will be no huge steps in innovation until these underlying questions are answered. That means no second coming until such has taken place. Until players learn to accept what devs can deliver with bugdget restraints, time tables, angry mobs and a community that second guesses itself from one post to another. We're never moving forward.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
What you need is a combination of a strong vision and the skill and wisdom to make it work.
One of the problems with many MMOs made in the past 3 years is that they don't really have a vision, they just follow an established recipe created by WoW and then add some variations on that theme. They don't really contain a core vision about what the game should be about.
I know I repeat myself but to answer your point about themeparks and sandboxes then I like Fallen Earth, that game is neither and both, it depends on how you decide to play it yourself as a player. Game is far from perfect but it does offer a deeper gameplay experience where you still have the old style sense of a huge open gameworld (there is no zoning anywhere what so ever) and yet have managed to take some of the good stuff from themeparks and used it to enhance the world instead of cheapen it like you see in game like AoC and WaR.
Icarus has convinced me that great games will come from the small indy companies. The big established companies are too locked up in marketing projections and conventional thinking for them to be able to deliver a fresh product that actually moves the genre forward. They can certainly polish and refine already existing ideas but they cannot create living worlds to experience anymore.
It just takes a team of people with the skill and will to make a strong idea possible. And that is a big thing because combining these and the money needed is a rare event that we wont see every year.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
If someone make a good enough game it will be the next big one.
and sooner or later will someone make one. Besides are there one think you didn't consider: most Wow players never played another MMO before Wow. That means that someone else also could make a big game by getting new players into the genre.
I see Bioware as a possibility here, they have as many faithful fans as Blizzard had before Wow. If they can get them to play TOR (or the other secret project) it would make another big MMO.
There is also another game to consider: Guildwars 2. A full fledged MMO in an open world without monthly fees or cashshops, and the first game sold over 6 millions on a low budget and a instanced world. I don't see how it could sell worse than the first game and therefor it should become rather big, maybe not as big as Wow was on it's top but it could. The first game released without any bugs.
Of course could several good games split the players into several groups and making it impossible for a single game to get really big, but since most MMOs are rather bad I wouldn't bet any money on that.
The game might also start out small and become big with time, Eve was really small in it's early life, now it is one of the largest (3rd after Wow and GW on X-fire, don't trust that number exactly but it is at least in the top 10, probably top 5) and is still growing.
I agree with your post, what we need the most is refinement. And diversity, those "big ones" do nothing but stiffle the genres creativity...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
The reason it doesn't seem like there can be a next big one is because there is not a sudden influx of mmo gamers hitting the market.That type of sudden MMORPG player insurgence will never happen again.No one game will ever be lucky to have 10 million new gamers hit the market upon their Christmas release,it is almost impossible,but i have a way lol.
This means it is very unlikely to ever have another game with 50% of the player base,but it is still possible.I believe i know what it would take and it is not out of the realm of possibility.What you would need is first of all of course is a giant game and a good one at that.OK before i go any further,this vision was actually touched on by Bill Gates many years ago,so it is not all my own theory lol.
You would need a free to play platform,this allows the most possible users,a busy game is a popular game,no question about it.This would be done in a couple of ways ,first of all a major giant in the PC industry or tech industry to sponsor/fund the game and the product,who bigger than Microsoft?The other aspect that again grabs more possible gamers is the platform.This would be an internet game ,where by all files all hardware is stored online[your choice].This would allow those without PC's or those who can't afford a pc or those on consoles to still play the game.All they would need is some form of internet access and a keyboard/mouse or box of some kind,the tech is already out there now.
So once you have this ease to grab many players in place now you need a way to entice the masses.What better way than offer real life rewards,the same way HEAT.net did in the old days.Rewards can be PC's/graphic cards/money/vouchers it is endless.The way this game can be paid for is by using in game advertising,heck you can have rare weapon/item/gear giveaways/drops/ rare craft recipes with the sponsor logos on them.
This allows the game to be free and have the most possible gamers.It also allows the game to be massive with a ongoing update as the cash flow never ends from sponsors.The other idea is to have it all broadcast on our televisions with competitions,so it involves your PVP stage for players that want/need that.You can have various PVP and guild ladders all individually sponsored,example the ATI guild ladder or the Nvidia 1 vs 1 PVP ladder,it is endless what they can do with it.
This is how it would have to be done,through mass cash influx,reaching out to the most possible gamers,and keeping the cost free to play.All this paid for by sponsors.Imagine you got 10 million console gamers on board,that alone is a huge influx of new gamers.Who wouldn't want to see themselves on national television competing in a MMORPG?Heck it would create a slew of new gaming channels on tv,more sponsors again.Yes it would meet criticism from many parents and would cause a sort of epidemic,the old school parents would probably condemn it,but it is all possible.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It's usualy the little guy who is under funded and in his mums basement that is going to have the best ideas and only ever see a small amount of them ever lived out due to a limited budget and development team. Haven and hearth, RPGWO, Deloria, Terrawrold and games like that etc which all have great ideas but unfortanately are a 1-3 man operation which is a huge holdback.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
It likely to turn up when we less expected.
They will never be a shooter bigger than Quake.They never be a MMO bigger than EQ.They will never be a game bigger than super mario 1.
This topic flat out stupid.WoW is not even well know property and it has 11 million subs.They are facebook games that have around 30 million people.There is not mmo cross over between Xbox,PS3 and PC that would be huge and it is possibility of that.You put a well known property like a star wars,lotr,harry potter and make great game watch happens.If nintendo stop being stupid and decided to make a pokemon mmo what type of numbers will think that will have.Then their is the "WoW factor" where something comes from no where and is huge.
WoW is not the peak.Trust me they will be bigger games.
The topic's only stupid if you ignore the context of what was said, and reply simply based on a thread title. Bigger does not mean better it also does not mean the genre has moved forward.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They said the same thing when the video game market collapsed in the early 80s: "The video gaming industry is over, and there will never be anything as big as Atari." Look how that prediction turned out. The MMO market is in a similar position to the home console industry back then. It's completely oversaturated.
As bad is it may sound, I think you guys need the small, lackluster games you so dearly love to fail (just like the colecovision, intellivision, etc, did) so the game developers will move on to other more successful products that will rise from the ashes. Those of you clinging to lame MMOs just to be cool, different, or stick it to WoW, may in fact be delaying the "next big thing". You're preventing resources from being reallocated to more interesting game ideas/projects.
I think the chances of the "next big one" happening in the next few years are low, there are a few that might surprise like Heroes of Telara but it's anyone's guess. The reason is simple: no other game company perfects its product swith simple stuff like walking animation , interaction character with world, player and mob interaction, huge seamless world with alot to do and this is how we get games like : AOC,WAR,Aion which are not even close, until a company with big budget with philosophy in mind to create a "HUGE" game that takes years and everything in it is polished , perfected and vast, we won't see nothing like WoW and on the horizon there's nothing like it.. and no.. not even star wars the old republic which will be small compared to wow in world,content but it will have alot of players because it will attarct all the star wars fans with "full voicing" and "story driven".
World of Warcraft is a proof that MMORPG quality should affect schedule/budget and not the other way around.
This is very true - however may not be necessary.
There will never be the massive influx again, but now that there has been one there is a much greater pool of players looking for a new game - not the next big one, just a good one. For this reason you don't need to have the highest % of players to reach the $$ goals that you may want - you only need to reach a number of subs / box sales.
You bank $, not %.
Currently Playing: SUN Online
People used to say nobody would ever release a game that will be more successful than Everquest... =and yet it happened.
In time something else will take the top spot.
The topic's only stupid if you ignore the context of what was said, and reply simply based on a thread title. Bigger does not mean better it also does not mean the genre has moved forward.
What ever context you what to view the topic is stupid.
Size-At some point and sooner than people think they will to be bigger MMO than WoW
Quality and Originality-It is isn't like WoW is some bastion of originality and pinnacle of mmo game.It is not going to be that hard to make a game more deeper and better than WoW.At some point people taught that Quake was the pinnacle of shooters,that Everquest was the pinnacle of mmo,that Final fanasty has pinnacle of rpg.Street fighter 2 is the pinnacle of figthing games.Every single time a better game has come out halo is better than Quake,WoW is better than EQ.Just because the OP can't see doesn't mean it can't happen.History has shown given time a better game will come out
I am sorry with Bioware made Star Wars game,Guilds War 2 a quality free to play mmo and more user Friendly Final fantasty online game coming out in the near future.I am not ready to go "Doom".Yes they will be a "next big one"
Oh yea, there'll be a big one coming. They'll call it Starcraft Online.
"I'm going to have to assume that was a hostile response..."
You're wrong on so many levels,
Really.. you should be banned from this board.
World of Warcraft is a proof that MMORPG quality should affect schedule/budget and not the other way around.
I'm sure many have had this thought before, but a Pokemon MMO would own the souls of millions. It would be a force to be reckoned with and would definitely topple WoW from it's spot.
Nintendo is seriously stupid in this regard. They live in a fantasy world where the internet still isn't a big place for gaming. They are clinging to the "social" face to face aspect of Pokemon. That may work in Japan where you have a lot of people in close proximity with DSes, but not in the rest of the world.
However, on topic, there will ALWAYS be a "next big one". Nobody thought that there would be a next Star Wars, then the LOTR trilogy came out. I could honestly list off many examples of the next big thing that nobody thought would happen, but it's fruitless. Innovation and risk always wins out in the end.
When the next big MMO hits, it's likely that nobody will have seen in coming.
You're wrong on so many levels,
Really.. you should be banned from this board.
Banned? On what grounds?
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
It's true that we'll never move forward with this genre in the way that many want, but only as a community. However, that's just the way the cookie crumbles, as you will find with any other genre. The MMO community, as a whole, is incredibly diverse and heavily opinionated, most times instigating ridiculous and obtuse messages that contain little to no rhetoric and leave only room for flame wars.
One could argue that the MMO community grew tremendously with the release of World of Warcraft, but let's take a look at the reason behind this huge breakthrough: Advertising and Marketing; the fundamental infrastructure of economic dominance within any gaming campaign. Sure, many would argue that WoW provides people with a comprehensive interface and sound activity chain, but others would argue differently, and this is where the line is drawn for many within the community.
Will there ever be a "next big one"? With time, the proper development team, and a great A/M campaign, you can bet on it happening.
A major issue with MMOs (as is with Peter Molyneaux and the Fable series, which is NOT an MMO mind you) is that they begin releasing information on their upcoming development WAY too early. Promising one thing only to deliver something completely different compels anger and distrust among the consumers, leading to disdain for the game and possibly for the company as a whole (I hate you Blizzard. I HATE YOU! Just kidding of course).
Blizzard is no different than the rest of the MMOs out there, having fibbed their way through many developmental issues throughout the existence of WoW (and just how ARE those artifact weapons coming along? We were told they'd be here 5 YEARS ago! ).
[NOTE: Farbeit my place to initiate another flame war, which is not my intention at all, but before you begin your retort, prepare yourself with research and understanding, as I have. Otherwise, you just want to bash just to bash, and you have no real reason for speaking at all.]
Can linear and sandbox platforms exist together? Of course, and in addition, there shouldn't be ANY bloodshed between the two preferences (I enjoy both). Sandboxes provide a sense of PERSONAL immersion within a game that linear, story-driven games lack; while linear platforms [ironically] provide immersion through the storyline itself. Both CAN coexist, just not within the same game obviously.
Can a single player campaign exist within a group-based MMO? Absolutely, and let it be known that I am an advocate of grouping when it comes to MMOs because I believe that was their primary purpose in the eve of the genre; just as I believe that it will continue to be a center piece for the genre as long as we have MMOs to play. Conversely, I do enjoy my time alone, and providing it within an MMO that I may possibly devote a subscription to makes it even more cost-effective, so-to-speak.
But now I see that I'm beginning to digress, so I'll leave this last bit and be done:
What would it require for YOU [the consumer] to take part in the next big one? I could easily say that, instead of us blabbing on about our personal feelings on the matter, or inciting flame wars based on our personal opinions, a simple brain-storm among the members of this fine community could possibly revolutionize the genre as a whole, giving way to newer innovations that provide both sandbox and linear platforms with a place to build their future foundations. However, that - as is with anything in life - is practically impossible as so many of you that are reading this are haters of the genre in one way or another. I'm reluctant to end on that statement, which is why I've decided to continue with this one. And this one. OK, now I'm really done.
THE Rooster Nash
You're wrong on so many levels,
Really.. you should be banned from this board.
What? This person is wrong on WHAT levels exactly? The post is clearly a joke. And a ban? And you're the OP? Come on, man... really?
THE Rooster Nash
You're wrong on so many levels,
Really.. you should be banned from this board.
What? This person is wrong on WHAT levels exactly? The post is clearly a joke. And a ban? And you're the OP? Come on, man... really?
Actually I'm the OP:).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You're wrong on so many levels,
Really.. you should be banned from this board.
What? This person is wrong on WHAT levels exactly? The post is clearly a joke. And a ban? And you're the OP? Come on, man... really?
Actually I'm the OP:).
Oh, a case of mistaken identities! Your names are so similar ;D
THE Rooster Nash
A long time ago when Doom was the talk of the town. I remember reading a PC gaming mag and a writer (yes a person wrote the magazine, not emailed), and said “that it would be awesome if there was a game that had 10,000 people in it”. The editor or the author responded that it would never happen. I thought to myself, oh yes it will happen.
So going to respond to this thread and say it again, “ It will happen”!
I’ll trump you and say there will be games in the future that will double WoW’s population. Current estimates for PC gamers are 200 million plus.
I dont think any game will ever achieve WoW's numbers in my lifetime. WoW is a freak of nature.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I dont think any game will ever achieve WoW's numbers in my lifetime. WoW is a freak of nature.
Having paid a close attention to the development and evolution of the video game industry and MMOs in particular, I say NEVER SAY NEVER!!
But then again, none of us can see the future, and while predicting it is fun, it always leads to someone being wrong. That person, as history has taught us, is ALWAYS the person that says "Never gonna happen."
THE Rooster Nash
Right now mmos are designed by bean counters and corporate scumbags that only care about how much money they can make and not on the impact they can make. Most of them never played an mmo in their life and if they did, it was wow. When the genre crashes due to these greedy morons they'll move on and the developers will have control over the games they make not trust fund venture capitalists.