Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why WoW sucks
Ginkeq
Member Posts: 615
Dumbed down PvE system that gives gear to everyone who attempts it.
- This has been going on since the first expansion came out, and 1 man quests had better gear than 40 man naxx. Then they started making the instances smaller & easier.
Fake PvP system for carebears
- Fighting in fake zones, called Arenas or Battlegrounds. PvP has no affect on your own server. World PvP is dead and meaningless in WoW because of instances.
Comments
Congratulations on making the 100,000th thread on this topic.
Might I ask what was wrong with the thread that says "Why do you hate WoW?".
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
Whew! I was hoping someone else would make a thread on this topic. Now we can see the same answers for the 309530495 time.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Too many carebears
Must piss you off that most of the industry idolizes wow
Arena is boring sure world pvp was waaay more entertaining. but why the fuck would you think after progressing a further 10levels into space that your old gear would be fucking relavent? are you a jew?
In most MMORPGs, you have to go through expansions in a certain order, usually in order. In Everquest, if you couldn't handle the trash in Luclin, what makes you think you deserve to skip over it into Planes of Power? You don't.
The fact is that people before WoWs expansion came out worked really hard. The expansions were difficult, took effort (unlike the dumbed down newb instances in there now). They were 40 man instances. My guild was doing AQ40 and other guilds were in MC40. Then an expansion comes out, and all of my guilds gear is worthless.. Gear that no one else on the server could get.
Lets let all the complete newbies skip over whole expansions, and skip over 3-4 instances at once, just to sell an expansion pack. Sorry the horrible WoW player couldn't handle trivial content that was the 40 man instances and the company had to come in and dumb down content and make PvE boring for good players.
Because everyone who doesn't join a game before 10 expansions are released should be forced to grind though outdated expansions just to catch up to their friends.
Why not add the stupid amount of AA psuedo levels on top of that. Those are tons of fun too.
People wonder why new players don't join EQ, there are reasons #1 and #2.
Because everyone who doesn't join a game before 10 expansions are released should be forced to grind though outdated expansions just to catch up to their friends.
Why not add the stupid amount of AA psuedo levels on top of that. Those are tons of fun too.
People wonder why new players don't join EQ, there are reasons #1 and #2.
^QFT
Because everyone who doesn't join a game before 10 expansions are released should be forced to grind though outdated expansions just to catch up to their friends.
Why not add the stupid amount of AA psuedo levels on top of that. Those are tons of fun too.
People wonder why new players don't join EQ, there are reasons #1 and #2.
Lol. Why should people who can't handle an expansion be able to skip it?
You call it outdated? How is it outdated for people who can't beat it?
If they wanted to "catch up to their friends", they could join their guild and have their guild gear them up.
If a bunch of new players form a guild, then they should have to go through MC -> BWL -> AQ -> Naxx -> etc
If they can't handle newb instances, they shouldn't even be doing expansion content..
Although I guess it doesn' matter because Blizzard made all of WoWs PvE content trivial, because their players weren't intelligent enough
Not really. I quit WoW because it was too easy, and boring. PvP in WoW has always sucked because of instancing and fake PvP servers that did not have any PvP.
It's just a game for carebears. Maybe someone someday will make a game that has challenging PvE and PvP that is somehow related to your server & not isolate PvP into joke Battlegrounds and Arenas
Why all the WoW hate? They say the true opposite of love is apathy not hatred. Discover WoW on your own with a ten day free trial.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Now that we've all found out that WoW sucks, the world is a much better place IMO. Thank you Ginkeq for showing us the light.
Why do people keep complaining their old gear becomes worthless after a new expansion comes out? What, you rather have half of the new content to be completely worthless to you?
Also PVE hasn't been made easier. If you ever found any mmorpg challenging, congratulations: You suck at games.
MMORPGs are a lot of things. They are fun, social, time consuming, rewarding but challenging is one thing they are not.
40 man raids aren't more challenging, they are just more time consuming. Sorry to hear you don't like the changes, but most people do not want to have to join at standard times each day and having to play just to keep their guild happy so they can keep doing big raids.
Lmao..
So if a complete newbie can't handle expansion 1 content they should be able to skip over it? Yeah that makes sense.
EQ had the right model. If you aren't geared up in expansion 1 gear, don't even bother trying the harder expansion 2 content. That is how it should be. I want expansions to require progression, otherwise here is what happens:
Expansion 1
Expansion 2
Expansion 3
Assume WoW's model.. Anyone can do any expansion regardless of having experienced any of the other expansions. Not only that, but the content in each expansion will be a similar skill level because they allow players to skip over expansions and acquire the needed gear for each expansion.
The new content would only be worthless if you sucked at the MMORPG in the first place. If your guild was half decent in WoW, you would be doing AQ40 and Naxx when their new expansion came out. But no, most people were stuck in newb zones like Molten Core. Then they put out solo quest gear > AQ40 gear and let newbies start farming the hardest instances in the game (because they were dumbed down to the point where any player was capable of doing it)
MMORPGs aren't challenging anymore.. sorry. If you want to see a challenge go try Everquest. At least in Everquest you have a good chance of wiping to raids even if you have a strategy. That game was good because even guilds that were farming zones were capable of wiping to it.
In WoW it's kind of like all of the PvE is boring because it is so easy. Not my problem the people I played WoW with were skilled & the people who play it now just couldn't handle the old content of WoW (Naxx40 etc.)
Some newbies act like the difficult hasn't changed.. Yeah right. What about pre expansion when most guilds were stuck in MC and BWL? And there was AQ and Naxx out at that time.
Now everyone is basically doing the same instances / raids. Everyone has the same gear.
40 mans are NOT more time consuming. Know how long my guild ran BWL in? 1-2 hours. We were good, other guilds were not. Then comes the expansion and newbies get the same shit. And then instances were dumbed down to the point where they were boring for us. So most of my guild just sold their characters for 2-3k around that time, when the game was boring.
They reduced the numbers, but they also reduced the difficulty of those encounters as well. The fact that you can take most PUGs and run any instance in WoW shows you what a bad game it is. There is no progression of instances, all gear is hand-outs to bad players anymore.
Know what I want? I want a game where, if you aren't really geared up in expansion 1 gear, then you won't have a chance at expansion 2. And if you are really geared up, then you should still find the raid extremely challenging.
Isn't that what MMORPGs should be about? Progression? Now it isn't about progression anymore with carebear games like WoW. Now it's about equalizing everyones gear because not everyone is as skilled as hardcore players.
Oh, i can't play WoW 10-15 hours per week. Please give me the same gear, same honor, ranking etc. as other players. That is WoW, a massive failure of an MMORPG and a game that shouldn't be allowed to call itself an MMORPG, since it is no longer based on progression but rather hand outs.
Sorry it's not challenging to me anymore (nor has it ever been since the 40 mans have been removed & content has been dumbed down.)
I just hope blizzards new MMO is for hardcore players and not the carebear audience that WoW is catering to.
Lmao..
So if a complete newbie can't handle expansion 1 content they should be able to skip over it? Yeah that makes sense.
EQ had the right model. If you aren't geared up in expansion 1 gear, don't even bother trying the harder expansion 2 content. That is how it should be. I want expansions to require progression, otherwise here is what happens:
Expansion 1
Expansion 2
Expansion 3
Assume WoW's model.. Anyone can do any expansion regardless of having experienced any of the other expansions. Not only that, but the content in each expansion will be a similar skill level because they allow players to skip over expansions and acquire the needed gear for each expansion.
The new content would only be worthless if you sucked at the MMORPG in the first place. If your guild was half decent in WoW, you would be doing AQ40 and Naxx when their new expansion came out. But no, most people were stuck in newb zones like Molten Core. Then they put out solo quest gear > AQ40 gear and let newbies start farming the hardest instances in the game (because they were dumbed down to the point where any player was capable of doing it)
MMORPGs aren't challenging anymore.. sorry. If you want to see a challenge go try Everquest. At least in Everquest you have a good chance of wiping to raids even if you have a strategy. That game was good because even guilds that were farming zones were capable of wiping to it.
In WoW it's kind of like all of the PvE is boring because it is so easy. Not my problem the people I played WoW with were skilled & the people who play it now just couldn't handle the old content of WoW (Naxx40 etc.)
Some newbies act like the difficult hasn't changed.. Yeah right. What about pre expansion when most guilds were stuck in MC and BWL? And there was AQ and Naxx out at that time.
Now everyone is basically doing the same instances / raids. Everyone has the same gear.
40 mans are NOT more time consuming. Know how long my guild ran BWL in? 1-2 hours. We were good, other guilds were not. Then comes the expansion and newbies get the same shit. And then instances were dumbed down to the point where they were boring for us. So most of my guild just sold their characters for 2-3k around that time, when the game was boring.
They reduced the numbers, but they also reduced the difficulty of those encounters as well. The fact that you can take most PUGs and run any instance in WoW shows you what a bad game it is. There is no progression of instances, all gear is hand-outs to bad players anymore.
Know what I want? I want a game where, if you aren't really geared up in expansion 1 gear, then you won't have a chance at expansion 2. And if you are really geared up, then you should still find the raid extremely challenging.
Isn't that what MMORPGs should be about? Progression? Now it isn't about progression anymore with carebear games like WoW. Now it's about equalizing everyones gear because not everyone is as skilled as hardcore players.
Oh, i can't play WoW 10-15 hours per week. Please give me the same gear, same honor, ranking etc. as other players. That is WoW, a massive failure of an MMORPG and a game that shouldn't be allowed to call itself an MMORPG, since it is no longer based on progression but rather hand outs.
Sorry it's not challenging to me anymore (nor has it ever been since the 40 mans have been removed & content has been dumbed down.)
I just hope blizzards new MMO is for hardcore players and not the carebear audience that WoW is catering to.
Wall of text, why don't you go play EQ?
Activision caters to casual players that play 9-12 hours a WEEK. Log in for their raids and can feel secure not playing until their next raid time. With raid lockouts power gamers gain nothing playing 70 hours a week, vs a guy that puts in 12 hours.
I wont even mention how bad the content is now, instead of 5 Mans->ZG->MC/Ony->BWL->ZF->AQ->Naxx, nowadays its just one boring instance x4 with even the worst guilds bringing in welfare epics (I wouldnt even call them epics anymore).
but yeah i'm just beating a dead horse. Glad i uninstalled this long ago and plan to keep it that way.
Being good at 40 man raids doesn't make you special. Face the facts some people have jobs or families or basically have no use for raiding. Does not make them bad players. With my experiences in warcraft it is fair to say I will never raid again. Sure the raids were successful but it was the worst time I had ever spent in the game it reminded me of working in a prison again. You know you go clock in to do your job and spend the next few hours with people who you really just don't want to be around.
Yeah, because everyone who joins EQ immediately heads to plane of fear at level 50. I'm sure if I logged onto EQ right now there would be people doing raids in all 15 of the expansion areas "catching" up to their friends right?
Do you even realize how stupid that sounds?
I want whatever you're smoking. Are you high enough to taste sound yet? You act like WoW has 10+ expacs when they are still developing the 3rd. Skip an expansion? Really? Go right ahead and try. I want to see your lvl 60 noobishness completely skip over Outland and go straight to Northrend. I want to see it when creatures 10+ your level own your ass in about 3 seconds. I want to see this and I want to laugh at you.
Dear trolls,
If you're going to try and bash a game for absolutely no reason whatsoever, at least know what the hell you're talking about first. You don't want to look like Ginkeq do you?
Lmao..
So if a complete newbie can't handle expansion 1 content they should be able to skip over it? Yeah that makes sense.
EQ had the right model. If you aren't geared up in expansion 1 gear, don't even bother trying the harder expansion 2 content. That is how it should be. I want expansions to require progression, otherwise here is what happens:
Expansion 1
Expansion 2
Expansion 3
Assume WoW's model.. Anyone can do any expansion regardless of having experienced any of the other expansions. Not only that, but the content in each expansion will be a similar skill level because they allow players to skip over expansions and acquire the needed gear for each expansion.
The new content would only be worthless if you sucked at the MMORPG in the first place. If your guild was half decent in WoW, you would be doing AQ40 and Naxx when their new expansion came out. But no, most people were stuck in newb zones like Molten Core. Then they put out solo quest gear > AQ40 gear and let newbies start farming the hardest instances in the game (because they were dumbed down to the point where any player was capable of doing it)
MMORPGs aren't challenging anymore.. sorry. If you want to see a challenge go try Everquest. At least in Everquest you have a good chance of wiping to raids even if you have a strategy. That game was good because even guilds that were farming zones were capable of wiping to it.
In WoW it's kind of like all of the PvE is boring because it is so easy. Not my problem the people I played WoW with were skilled & the people who play it now just couldn't handle the old content of WoW (Naxx40 etc.)
Some newbies act like the difficult hasn't changed.. Yeah right. What about pre expansion when most guilds were stuck in MC and BWL? And there was AQ and Naxx out at that time.
Now everyone is basically doing the same instances / raids. Everyone has the same gear.
40 mans are NOT more time consuming. Know how long my guild ran BWL in? 1-2 hours. We were good, other guilds were not. Then comes the expansion and newbies get the same shit. And then instances were dumbed down to the point where they were boring for us. So most of my guild just sold their characters for 2-3k around that time, when the game was boring.
They reduced the numbers, but they also reduced the difficulty of those encounters as well. The fact that you can take most PUGs and run any instance in WoW shows you what a bad game it is. There is no progression of instances, all gear is hand-outs to bad players anymore.
Know what I want? I want a game where, if you aren't really geared up in expansion 1 gear, then you won't have a chance at expansion 2. And if you are really geared up, then you should still find the raid extremely challenging.
Isn't that what MMORPGs should be about? Progression? Now it isn't about progression anymore with carebear games like WoW. Now it's about equalizing everyones gear because not everyone is as skilled as hardcore players.
Oh, i can't play WoW 10-15 hours per week. Please give me the same gear, same honor, ranking etc. as other players. That is WoW, a massive failure of an MMORPG and a game that shouldn't be allowed to call itself an MMORPG, since it is no longer based on progression but rather hand outs.
Sorry it's not challenging to me anymore (nor has it ever been since the 40 mans have been removed & content has been dumbed down.)
I just hope blizzards new MMO is for hardcore players and not the carebear audience that WoW is catering to.
You have a very strange idea of how mmorpgs should work.
First lets get this out of the way. Bigger time requirement does not equal more challenging. Just because a task takes 3 hours instead of 1 does not make the task any more challenging.
Everquests 2nd expansion was not harder. It just required more powerful gear which means you were forced to play through older content first. Once you got that gear, the game's challenge is exactly on the same level. That's not more challenging, that's more confusing.
You can't really skip that much content. You may be able to skip a few instances here and there but your claim that you can skip entire expansion packs is laughable, especially because the new content in expansion packs have a level requirement.
By half decent guild you ofcourse mean a big guild. Your guild required to have 40 members at the max level to be online at the same time, which either meant that you all had to log in at a pre set time time or your guild had to be so large that it had 40 members online at the cap level at any given time. Yeah it takes 1 - 2 hours but that's ignoring the huge amount of time it took before everybody actually got there and the fact you have to play at a pre - set time.
You're basically complaining that people who aren't willing to
- Play at a pre set times
- Join massive guilds
- have a time commitment of at least 2 hours before they accomplish anything.
can actually play the game and still have a fun and rewarding experience. Sorry buddy, but just because a person has other things to do then play a game at preset time for at least 2 hours consistently does not make them newbies.
Everquest wasn't harder. It was more time consuming.
The MMORPG genre has expanded beyond the nerds who play the same game for hours upon hours each day. Live with it.
With so many MMOs out there, why are you complaining so much about WoW? They're raking in the dough and that's what matters to them most. Don't like WoW? Its a free country, go play something else.
I understand opinions like the OP. I really do.
WoW has always targetted the mainstream. It launched with that intention, and Blizzard has continued to pursue that philosophy year after year to great success. It's a very accessible game that can be enjoyed by a lot of people. Naturally, other developers look at the genre, see where the money is and design games with the mainstream in mind.
It's just business. It's just money. C'est la vie.
There is an underlying bitterness in some "hardcore" niche gamers. They feel that, without WoW, theirs would be the prevalent playstyle and that the big developers (the likes of Bioware and such) would be making games with their preferred game mechanics rather than (like TOR) a far more mainstream-friendly PvE themepark.
Are they right? .. maybe. Who knows? .. without WoW the genre would undoubtedly by much smaller; it's well known that Blizzard brought a lot of gamers into the MMO world. Maybe TOR would have been SWG2. Maybe not. Impossible to say with any degree of certainty, so most people just try and deal with the reality of a genre that has left them behind.
For some though, bitterness and resentment don't fade easy.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Well said Ilvadyr.
To build on that we should start seeing developers branching out with specialty products that aim at small market shares. I think there is a market for the so call hardcore gamers, but someone has to be convinced it is financially viable and also that they are not going to achieve wow like success if they try to make a game for the masses.
Wow just happened to be the game that attracted the masses to play, but in all honesty that was ready to happen and would have happened without wow. Maybe not as large, but still the growth of the genre has been going along a predictable scale since UO/EQ.
Lmao..
So if a complete newbie can't handle expansion 1 content they should be able to skip over it? Yeah that makes sense.
EQ had the right model. If you aren't geared up in expansion 1 gear, don't even bother trying the harder expansion 2 content. That is how it should be. I want expansions to require progression, otherwise here is what happens:
Expansion 1
Expansion 2
Expansion 3
Assume WoW's model.. Anyone can do any expansion regardless of having experienced any of the other expansions. Not only that, but the content in each expansion will be a similar skill level because they allow players to skip over expansions and acquire the needed gear for each expansion.
The new content would only be worthless if you sucked at the MMORPG in the first place. If your guild was half decent in WoW, you would be doing AQ40 and Naxx when their new expansion came out. But no, most people were stuck in newb zones like Molten Core. Then they put out solo quest gear > AQ40 gear and let newbies start farming the hardest instances in the game (because they were dumbed down to the point where any player was capable of doing it)
MMORPGs aren't challenging anymore.. sorry. If you want to see a challenge go try Everquest. At least in Everquest you have a good chance of wiping to raids even if you have a strategy. That game was good because even guilds that were farming zones were capable of wiping to it.
In WoW it's kind of like all of the PvE is boring because it is so easy. Not my problem the people I played WoW with were skilled & the people who play it now just couldn't handle the old content of WoW (Naxx40 etc.)
Some newbies act like the difficult hasn't changed.. Yeah right. What about pre expansion when most guilds were stuck in MC and BWL? And there was AQ and Naxx out at that time.
Now everyone is basically doing the same instances / raids. Everyone has the same gear.
40 mans are NOT more time consuming. Know how long my guild ran BWL in? 1-2 hours. We were good, other guilds were not. Then comes the expansion and newbies get the same shit. And then instances were dumbed down to the point where they were boring for us. So most of my guild just sold their characters for 2-3k around that time, when the game was boring.
They reduced the numbers, but they also reduced the difficulty of those encounters as well. The fact that you can take most PUGs and run any instance in WoW shows you what a bad game it is. There is no progression of instances, all gear is hand-outs to bad players anymore.
Know what I want? I want a game where, if you aren't really geared up in expansion 1 gear, then you won't have a chance at expansion 2. And if you are really geared up, then you should still find the raid extremely challenging.
Isn't that what MMORPGs should be about? Progression? Now it isn't about progression anymore with carebear games like WoW. Now it's about equalizing everyones gear because not everyone is as skilled as hardcore players.
Oh, i can't play WoW 10-15 hours per week. Please give me the same gear, same honor, ranking etc. as other players. That is WoW, a massive failure of an MMORPG and a game that shouldn't be allowed to call itself an MMORPG, since it is no longer based on progression but rather hand outs.
Sorry it's not challenging to me anymore (nor has it ever been since the 40 mans have been removed & content has been dumbed down.)
I just hope blizzards new MMO is for hardcore players and not the carebear audience that WoW is catering to.
You have a very strange idea of how mmorpgs should work.
First lets get this out of the way. Bigger time requirement does not equal more challenging. Just because a task takes 3 hours instead of 1 does not make the task any more challenging.
Everquests 2nd expansion was not harder. It just required more powerful gear which means you were forced to play through older content first. Once you got that gear, the game's challenge is exactly on the same level. That's not more challenging, that's more confusing.
You can't really skip that much content. You may be able to skip a few instances here and there but your claim that you can skip entire expansion packs is laughable, especially because the new content in expansion packs have a level requirement.
By half decent guild you ofcourse mean a big guild. Your guild required to have 40 members at the max level to be online at the same time, which either meant that you all had to log in at a pre set time time or your guild had to be so large that it had 40 members online at the cap level at any given time. Yeah it takes 1 - 2 hours but that's ignoring the huge amount of time it took before everybody actually got there and the fact you have to play at a pre - set time.
You're basically complaining that people who aren't willing to
- Play at a pre set times
- Join massive guilds
- have a time commitment of at least 2 hours before they accomplish anything.
can actually play the game and still have a fun and rewarding experience. Sorry buddy, but just because a person has other things to do then play a game at preset time for at least 2 hours consistently does not make them newbies.
Everquest wasn't harder. It was more time consuming.
The MMORPG genre has expanded beyond the nerds who play the same game for hours upon hours each day. Live with it.
I think Shazzel has the right terminology for WoW items: Welfare Epics.
Seriously thought, that is what it has become, and 10 vs 100 hours and no skill vs ultra skilled do not matter anymore. Infinite retries, easy content, etc.
LOL EQs expansions weren't harder? Did you play EQ? Do you think Kunark content was as hard as Vex Thal content? Or Vex Thal as hard as Planes of Power? Or Planes of Power as difficult as GoD?
It's not all gear, the actual encounters became way more sophisticated & required greater coordination & required gear from previous expansions.
Its not ALL gear though. Of course, in an MMORPG, what is so wrong with FORCING people to go through expansion in a certain order? After all, isn't an MMORPG about character development?
WoW is an MMORPG where everyone gets the same gear because they hand out everything so easily.
You can't skip expansions? Really? People only run MC, BWL, AQ for achievments anymore. The gear is totally worthless, you'd have to be stupid to run it for gear considering 1 man quest gear is way better than anything prior to the expansion being released.
I just don't like games where I have the same gear as a random newbie because Blizzard made their PvE and PvP systems hand out gear to every horrible player. It's like you are just a number in WoW, you can be the best at PvE/PvP and no one will care because it's all meaningless and everyone has the same things.
If you're on top of the PvE system, most people will have similar gear, and their next expansion is just going to ruin your gear that you/your guild worked hard for.
And the fake PvP system, lol. Fighting people who are not even on your own server, for no reason, things that do not affect the outcome of the server. It's very pointless. They couldn't somehow integrate PvP into the same servers, it would be too hard for the idiots @ ;blizzard. So you get to fight random newbies every time for no reason.
Everytime I argue against horribly designed MMORPGs that don't have challenging PvE systems, people here (You and others) twist my words into "This MMORPG does not require enough time investment."
It's not always about time investment (although it seems that to play a game you have to invest some amount of time, unless its EVE or something). My guild only raided about 5-10 hours a week, and we were in AQ40/Naxx when other guilds were stuck in MC. It's not about time, it's about skill. We were better than the other WoW players. (Now they made their game a lot easier since then)
For ultra skilled players like myself, WoW is simply a boring game with nothing to offer. Especially with the abundance of welfare epics.
40 player guilds aren't that massive, neither are 100 person guilds. Especially if it is WoW, because the amount of players per server.
Anyway, there is something more epic about bigger encounters that require more people. They are just more fun.
If that is hard to imagine, then think of an encounter that required everyone on the server all at once, maybe 8000 people, and if everyone doesn't play well, you have a good chance of wiping. Is it more fun to win that encounter or a shitty 10 man?
That is the problem with reducing numbers, not to mention they made the content easier as well.
A lot of people who attack my views are people who just couldn't handle WoW before the welfare epic system came along. But remember what I said, some things are about skill, some about numbers, some about time.
WoW mainly reduced teh amount of skill required to beat content, which is why anyone can do any PvE instance in WoW. My issue isn't with them making 25/10 mans, but making the endgame too easy.
Don't be angry because some players are more skilled than others and need something that is more challenging. I want an MMORPG that would give me and other hardcore players a serious challenge. I don't want to take a newb PUG group and beat the endgame in an hour, sorry.
@Ginkeq
Did we play the same EQ? Nearly all the fights were tank and spank that revolved around weaving in and out of a single AoE with the exception of a few "mass buff yourself constantly so your buffs aren't dispelled and survive the AoE you can't dodge with high resistances". 90% of the fights in EQ were decided by the pull and how well you pulled off the positioning. At least until PoP when a few (but not all, there were still plenty of the above) fights got more complex. I actually think when you look at the Vox encounter and compare it to say Trakanon or Velious encounters or Vex Thal you'll find it's no less complex (possibly even more complex) than those.
WoW's fights got more complex from the offset until WotLK (where I agree they took a step back to bring more casuals up to par - one of the main reasons I'm no longer playing WoW). MC encounters were no different than most EQ encounters with maybe an easy gimmick to deal with. You had mostly tank and spank encounters. Golemagg was probably the least interesting raid encounter ever in WoW. With the release of BWL you got more complex encounters, but they still relied on mostly on EQ mechanics (Nefarion was probably the first really interesting fight). AQ40 rolls around and the fights got way more complex. Naxx was even better.
The expansion didn't decrease the complexity either. Vashj and Kael'thas are complex fights. Most of the Black Temple fights are pretty fun too. I was admittedly pretty upset when they nerfed most of the heroic instances a few months after the expansions to make the difficult ones easier for the casual players.
WotLK did make the fights less complex though. They took all the fights from Naxx and dumbed (most) of them down to support 25 man raiding.
It seems your jaded that casual players can play on the same level as you now (and I can agrue with you that WoW and EQ were never about skill and more about time investment and knowledge - you want skill go play a FPS, RTS, or Fighting Game online). That they are given big rewards for doing things other than raiding... Does it really matter? There are still plenty of heavy "skill" oriented achievements that only the elite few can get in WoW (actually haven't played recently, but I'm sure there are still many of the difficult achievements and ways to make raiding more difficult has they had in WotLK). They show up on your profile too so now everyone can see how awesome you are.
(I'm not a WoW fanboy either. I'm not playing WoW right now and haven't for almost a year. I just don't want to hate on a game I enjoyed for years and don't like seeing people make generalizations about the people who play WoW)
Amazing that he was able to put those two phrases together...
Look, it was either easy or hard. Make a choice and then get off the forums