What is important to find like minded people that do not have this rush to cap lvl asap mentality. It's not the game, it's the people's playstyle. I am still wondering when did get this mentality into this genre about wanting to catch up with others, if you have friends that tell you to rush or a guild to tell you to rush and if you dislike that, why do you go ahead and still do what they tell you? I'ts simply not the games, but the people you surround yourself with. As a matter of fact it's a none-issue as it's something that you and only you could control.
Read my example I posted for WoW.. I cannot control that. The game is designed to cater to those people. Nothing I can do will allow me to experience the same content as everyone else unless I play like everyone else. It just isn't going to happen.
I can't raid current content, and I can 't raid past content.. because its obsolete now. Thats my issue, content becomes obsolete before I ever get to it. It annoys me to no end.
My mistake, I don't raid cause for me it has no use due to the way I like to play and enjoy games in this genre and I am not about competition in this genre, I play other genre's for that, but regardless I never had a game where I couldn't find like-minded people, but because of what I said, I do not raid, it aint my style, but then again I also do not worry about getting the same content as let's say someone else.
So I can understand your issue somewhat because you like to raid. But I still will stand with my comment about finding like-minded people and simply do not worry what content others might be getting. Unless like you say you like Raiding.
Currently I am enjoying Fallen Earth, which has some other issue's but so far the experiance it is giving me is enjoyeble and fun, but it's not a mainstream game. So not sure what your take would be on that game.
Its about having goals. In WoW raiding is part of the normal content. Its not some special form of content only for certain players. I pay my 15.00 a month to have access to it just like everyone else. But because of WoW's design.. there is no reason at all for anyone to want to do it when there are better ways to progress. Blizzard makes the instances and gear obsolete to the point where its just an empty shell in a zone that you pass through. People still run them rarely for achievements.. but its not the same. FFXI is the only game I know of where most of the content that was introduced on day 1.. is still just as viable today.
I set goals but they are very different compared to the more mainstream gamer, as I know I am a niche gamer when it comes to MMORPG's
I don't buy a MMORPG for 100% of it's content as I already know parts of a MMORPG are not intresting to me, like PVP or Raids, thought I don't mind them being in a MMORPG as I know there are people who are intrested in those type of feature's, besides every now and then I might get into some PVP or Raid, but often I don't engage into it. Thought I am a very social player when it comes to MMORPG, just with different things. I do pay a sub, but for me that only gives me acces to ingame aswell the servers, I also look at what is the most fun to me personaly to progress and often this turns out to NOT be the fastest way to cap lvl but in fact compared to the mainstream gamer could be seen as a very slow progrssion.
Slightly off-topic, but do you guys think that this setup could serve as a means for people to not rush into end-game and really have a reason to lay back and really exhaust the lower level content. Here goes:
1. Gear is cool - But why does it have to be an end-game raid drop? Couldn't they make it like puzzle pieces? I'm not talking about something like WAR where there are wards that need to be gained in order to have a chance at some content, but instead I'm thinking in terms of having a system where pieces add up to something greater. Early content farming, raiding, repeatable quest reward drops, and whatever else gives items could be building blocks for end-gear. Get a new chest piece? Want to make it better? Go do some various low, mid, and mid-high level content to gain items that can be used to enhance that chest piece. Nothing just drops that is "the best."
2. The issue - nobody wants to go back and do e-z mode content at a higher level/skill level just to enhance their gear. How can it be made fun? Zone level reductions. Levels are scaled back to the range of the area. The gear would be scaled down to be competitive with gear in that range. People could then go back to replay early content and group up with new players that are experiencing it for the first time. It'd also make guilds more accessible to all levels of players, no matter their pace.
3. Would there still be hardcore players and guilds that do "roll" groups and burn through even the low level runthroughs? Yes. But, it would definitely foster more repeat play in the early areas, which allows new players to get to access the full extent of the content.
4. Developers focus - The developers could focus on creating an amazing game from start to finish. They wouldn't have to worry about continually adding new end-game content right away since repeat content could keep the "hardcore" group busy. Create new low-level areas and dungeons and the end-gamers can experience it just as new players do. That new instance drops a new metal ore that can increase the durability of your Legendary Sword which allows better sharpening increasing damage by nearly 3!
5. It seems like a radical system, and perhaps it's too hard to implement, but I think it would at least ease the "dead zone" issue that has appeared in many MMOs lately. Does anybody know of any system similar to this one?
He is asking for a game without the rush for level cap and raid.
People came and said that he wont find it, because people who rush for level cap and end game content exist in every mmorpg.
Some people came and said that "he dont have to rush if he doesnt want to", missing the point.
The point is, he is looking for a game WHERE NOONE, NOT JUST HIM, BUT EVERYONE ELSE, dont rush. Not just dont rush but, understand this elipse: A GAME WHOSE MECHANICS ARE NOT MADE SO PEOPLE FEEL ENTICED/FORCED TO PLAY IN A CERTAIN MANNER AS IN RUSHING THE CONTENT FOR POWER.
In resume, dont tell him to change his behaviour, he is obviously talking about everyone, others and him.
Dont say he cant find it, because thats "gamers nature".
Dont be stupid, people are like that only because games are designed like that.
WHAT HE WANTS IS A GAME THAT IS NOT DESIGNED LIKE THAT. Think before repply.
Well, it depends what you're looking for. If you're looking for a good PVP game with a little PVE aspect then I would suggest Darkfall. There is no Raid (a little grind, but no endgame stuff really). You have skills rather than lvls in that game like UO and it's more a PVP game with keeps to take.
There is also a game coming out called Mortal Online which has shown some promise that is another PVP game. I forget if they just have skills in that game or not.
He is asking for a game without the rush for level cap and raid.
People came and said that he wont find it, because people who rush for level cap and end game content exist in every mmorpg.
Some people came and said that "he dont have to rush if he doesnt want to", missing the point. The point is, he is looking for a game WHERE NOONE, NOT JUST HIM, BUT EVERYONE ELSE, dont rush. Not just dont rush but, understand this elipse: A GAME WHOSE MECHANICS ARE NOT MADE SO PEOPLE FEEL ENTICED/FORCED TO PLAY IN A CERTAIN MANNER AS IN RUSHING THE CONTENT FOR POWER.
In resume, dont tell him to change his behaviour, he is obviously talking about everyone, others and him. Dont say he cant find it, because thats "gamers nature". Dont be stupid, people are like that only because games are designed like that.
WHAT HE WANTS IS A GAME THAT IS NOT DESIGNED LIKE THAT. Think before repply.
WHO makes the game? The designer or the gamers? If you read this thread you see several posts by people who claim they wish to take it slow, have fun for the sake of fun, BUT also saying things like "what is the point doing a lvl 30 dungeon with a 60 and a 10, because the 60 doesn't get any worthwhile loot and the 10 no XP".
Hold on.... wouldn't the POINT be to experience the content, to have fun etc etc? Are you complaining that you can't do content X or are you complaining you don't get reward Y?
It is gamers who have turned every MMO into a grind for gear. Age of Conan started as a skill based game where gear meant very little, it didn't even bind-on-equip so "rare" stuff was readily available for low low prices.
And the punters didn't like it at all, they cried and cried until Funcom altered the game to have gear bind on equip and more emphasis on stats. Now the same people complain that those stats they wanted make a difference.
A MMO developer needs to be made out of very stern stuff indeed to resist, Blizzard didn't. They gave the masses exactly what they wanted an endless grind to allow you to grind yet more and the reward is 10 million+ subscribers.
Other games have tried to steer away from this, and most prey to god their numbers don't fall below 300.000 Lotro being about the only one doing reasonably well, and that could be due to Mines of Moria adding a massive gear grind. You certainly see a lot of new players in the game nowadays, most of whom seem to have skipped major sections of the game.
So, while it may be wrong to tell the OP to change HIS ways, unless enough of us change OUR ways, there simply ain't a market for this. SWTOR MIGHT, just MIGHT be the answer although I got my doubts. But the simple fact is that the gear grinding end game is a reliable way to attract customers.
Yes, a good MMO designer COULD come up with something different, something better, something original, but if you look at recent failings of Age of Conan and Warhammer Online then you can see that the risks are far to great.
And to a large extent, it is the players themselves who enforce the rush to the end. The OP can after all just level up so that a raid can be run with fewer people to experience the content? "Oh but then I don't get the XP and the rewards", he answers. I am sorry, did you say you want to experience the content OR are you after gear? And what do you need the XP for, in a rush to level up?
It would be very easy to design a brilliant MMO without grinding, you just have to keep the players out.
Comments
Read my example I posted for WoW.. I cannot control that. The game is designed to cater to those people. Nothing I can do will allow me to experience the same content as everyone else unless I play like everyone else. It just isn't going to happen.
I can't raid current content, and I can 't raid past content.. because its obsolete now. Thats my issue, content becomes obsolete before I ever get to it. It annoys me to no end.
My mistake, I don't raid cause for me it has no use due to the way I like to play and enjoy games in this genre and I am not about competition in this genre, I play other genre's for that, but regardless I never had a game where I couldn't find like-minded people, but because of what I said, I do not raid, it aint my style, but then again I also do not worry about getting the same content as let's say someone else.
So I can understand your issue somewhat because you like to raid. But I still will stand with my comment about finding like-minded people and simply do not worry what content others might be getting. Unless like you say you like Raiding.
Currently I am enjoying Fallen Earth, which has some other issue's but so far the experiance it is giving me is enjoyeble and fun, but it's not a mainstream game. So not sure what your take would be on that game.
Its about having goals. In WoW raiding is part of the normal content. Its not some special form of content only for certain players. I pay my 15.00 a month to have access to it just like everyone else. But because of WoW's design.. there is no reason at all for anyone to want to do it when there are better ways to progress. Blizzard makes the instances and gear obsolete to the point where its just an empty shell in a zone that you pass through. People still run them rarely for achievements.. but its not the same. FFXI is the only game I know of where most of the content that was introduced on day 1.. is still just as viable today.
I set goals but they are very different compared to the more mainstream gamer, as I know I am a niche gamer when it comes to MMORPG's
I don't buy a MMORPG for 100% of it's content as I already know parts of a MMORPG are not intresting to me, like PVP or Raids, thought I don't mind them being in a MMORPG as I know there are people who are intrested in those type of feature's, besides every now and then I might get into some PVP or Raid, but often I don't engage into it. Thought I am a very social player when it comes to MMORPG, just with different things. I do pay a sub, but for me that only gives me acces to ingame aswell the servers, I also look at what is the most fun to me personaly to progress and often this turns out to NOT be the fastest way to cap lvl but in fact compared to the mainstream gamer could be seen as a very slow progrssion.
Slightly off-topic, but do you guys think that this setup could serve as a means for people to not rush into end-game and really have a reason to lay back and really exhaust the lower level content. Here goes:
1. Gear is cool - But why does it have to be an end-game raid drop? Couldn't they make it like puzzle pieces? I'm not talking about something like WAR where there are wards that need to be gained in order to have a chance at some content, but instead I'm thinking in terms of having a system where pieces add up to something greater. Early content farming, raiding, repeatable quest reward drops, and whatever else gives items could be building blocks for end-gear. Get a new chest piece? Want to make it better? Go do some various low, mid, and mid-high level content to gain items that can be used to enhance that chest piece. Nothing just drops that is "the best."
2. The issue - nobody wants to go back and do e-z mode content at a higher level/skill level just to enhance their gear. How can it be made fun? Zone level reductions. Levels are scaled back to the range of the area. The gear would be scaled down to be competitive with gear in that range. People could then go back to replay early content and group up with new players that are experiencing it for the first time. It'd also make guilds more accessible to all levels of players, no matter their pace.
3. Would there still be hardcore players and guilds that do "roll" groups and burn through even the low level runthroughs? Yes. But, it would definitely foster more repeat play in the early areas, which allows new players to get to access the full extent of the content.
4. Developers focus - The developers could focus on creating an amazing game from start to finish. They wouldn't have to worry about continually adding new end-game content right away since repeat content could keep the "hardcore" group busy. Create new low-level areas and dungeons and the end-gamers can experience it just as new players do. That new instance drops a new metal ore that can increase the durability of your Legendary Sword which allows better sharpening increasing damage by nearly 3!
5. It seems like a radical system, and perhaps it's too hard to implement, but I think it would at least ease the "dead zone" issue that has appeared in many MMOs lately. Does anybody know of any system similar to this one?
He is asking for a game without the rush for level cap and raid.
People came and said that he wont find it, because people who rush for level cap and end game content exist in every mmorpg.
Some people came and said that "he dont have to rush if he doesnt want to", missing the point.
The point is, he is looking for a game WHERE NOONE, NOT JUST HIM, BUT EVERYONE ELSE, dont rush. Not just dont rush but, understand this elipse: A GAME WHOSE MECHANICS ARE NOT MADE SO PEOPLE FEEL ENTICED/FORCED TO PLAY IN A CERTAIN MANNER AS IN RUSHING THE CONTENT FOR POWER.
In resume, dont tell him to change his behaviour, he is obviously talking about everyone, others and him.
Dont say he cant find it, because thats "gamers nature".
Dont be stupid, people are like that only because games are designed like that.
WHAT HE WANTS IS A GAME THAT IS NOT DESIGNED LIKE THAT. Think before repply.
Well, it depends what you're looking for. If you're looking for a good PVP game with a little PVE aspect then I would suggest Darkfall. There is no Raid (a little grind, but no endgame stuff really). You have skills rather than lvls in that game like UO and it's more a PVP game with keeps to take.
There is also a game coming out called Mortal Online which has shown some promise that is another PVP game. I forget if they just have skills in that game or not.
WHO makes the game? The designer or the gamers? If you read this thread you see several posts by people who claim they wish to take it slow, have fun for the sake of fun, BUT also saying things like "what is the point doing a lvl 30 dungeon with a 60 and a 10, because the 60 doesn't get any worthwhile loot and the 10 no XP".
Hold on.... wouldn't the POINT be to experience the content, to have fun etc etc? Are you complaining that you can't do content X or are you complaining you don't get reward Y?
It is gamers who have turned every MMO into a grind for gear. Age of Conan started as a skill based game where gear meant very little, it didn't even bind-on-equip so "rare" stuff was readily available for low low prices.
And the punters didn't like it at all, they cried and cried until Funcom altered the game to have gear bind on equip and more emphasis on stats. Now the same people complain that those stats they wanted make a difference.
A MMO developer needs to be made out of very stern stuff indeed to resist, Blizzard didn't. They gave the masses exactly what they wanted an endless grind to allow you to grind yet more and the reward is 10 million+ subscribers.
Other games have tried to steer away from this, and most prey to god their numbers don't fall below 300.000 Lotro being about the only one doing reasonably well, and that could be due to Mines of Moria adding a massive gear grind. You certainly see a lot of new players in the game nowadays, most of whom seem to have skipped major sections of the game.
So, while it may be wrong to tell the OP to change HIS ways, unless enough of us change OUR ways, there simply ain't a market for this. SWTOR MIGHT, just MIGHT be the answer although I got my doubts. But the simple fact is that the gear grinding end game is a reliable way to attract customers.
Yes, a good MMO designer COULD come up with something different, something better, something original, but if you look at recent failings of Age of Conan and Warhammer Online then you can see that the risks are far to great.
And to a large extent, it is the players themselves who enforce the rush to the end. The OP can after all just level up so that a raid can be run with fewer people to experience the content? "Oh but then I don't get the XP and the rewards", he answers. I am sorry, did you say you want to experience the content OR are you after gear? And what do you need the XP for, in a rush to level up?
It would be very easy to design a brilliant MMO without grinding, you just have to keep the players out.