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STO rumors addressed (wall of text edition)
Aurorus
Member UncommonPosts: 60
EDIT***
I believe maybe I should clarify this for you all since all the whining seems to be around this statement:
"To start, I will be playing this game. As a Trek fan it is my duty to support the IP, regardless of if the game is good or bad, if we want more trek we need to support the IP."
I did not specificially mean "OMG BUY THIS GAME". Sure it may not be for you but dont hate on something you have not tried. And yes, do support the IP by buying DVDs, movies, books, hell if you can manage to pick up some of the things they auctioned at Christies, go for it. But for christs sake, play the game or don't.
Another clarification:
The game may be bad at launch, yes I will buy anything with "Star Trek" on it, but Cryptic and Atari have only one MMO out as far as I know, that being champions. HOWEVER, even though cryptic has developed more, they have not MAINTAINED one. We do not know what theyre track record is for taking customer interaction and applying it to the game. Champions was a side project IMO. A test of their new engine. Yes, I played it. Didn't like it. Oh well. But we cannot take Champions online to mean the end of STO. Again, try the game before you call it "garbage". If I don't like STO, I wont continue to play it.
Try it or don't. There's no need to try and rain on someone else's parade because your float didn't make the cut... or go back to WoW.
/end edit***
So I have been perusing the forums for a while for this game and there were a few topics I wanted to touch on, good and bad.
To start, I will be playing this game. As a Trek fan it is my duty to support the IP, regardless of if the game is good or bad, if we want more trek we need to support the IP.
Along with being a Trek fan, I am an MMO player. Think of an MMO, name it, and I've probably played it.
There has been a lot of backlash on the forums regarding STO following the traditional tank, support/healer, dps model which most MMOs use. The complaints against this really have no basis IMO except that the AI may be a little retarded since they will attack a ship with the most "aggro". First thing about this is that "Cruisers" fall into the tanking category, of which, the Galaxy class is a part of. If any of you have seen any Star Trek, the Galaxy class was designed as a Diplomatic/Exploration vessel. It is however, a larger ship which in turn would allow more power to be generated which obviously means better shields. This works for me. I also understand that I can fit "my" galaxy class with stations or my own skills to enhance my science/support and damage abilities. I'm sure that in doing so, I can out scan or out dps a science or escort vessel as Cryptic has said that abilities and bridge crew make the most difference as well as those modules.
Secondly was the issue of science/support ships not being combat worthy. I also belive this rumor to be a load. Starfleet equips ships with different armaments based on size and mission, and this is what you are allowed to do in STO in a sense.
Example: Take Starfleet Command (for those that have played any of them, and if you haven't and youre a trek fan, then shame on you). This game allowed you to fit your ships with different "weapons and shields". Depending on your ship however, you had the restriction of how many weapons/shuttles/shield systems you could use at any given time. I see something similar to this in sto. If I wanted to use a Nebula class for example, a science ship, I could fit it with nothing but tactical stations and I bet I would beat your "escort" or "Cruiser" full of science stations.
Different "skills" being usable on different ships also makes sense based on design. I am pretty sure we will not see a miranda class parading about with quantum torpedoes, however the intrepid class, while according to canon is equipped with photons standard, with modification quantum torpedoes can be used. Tactical station/ Bridge officer +1. If shuttle capacity is also an issue, I can see how have a galaxy class ship 50 shuttles makes sense over a Defiant class. Oh, and BTW, the deifant is actually called an escort.
"The Defiant-class starship, officially an escort, began development in 2366 as a small, highly-powered, heavily-armed warship intended to defend the Federation against the Borg. The USS Defiant (NX-74205) was the first of what was to be a new Federation battle fleet. Starfleet abandoned the project when the Borg threat became less urgent; also, design flaws turned up, nearly destroying the Defiant during its initial shakedown cruise." <--- also Starfleets first vessel designed solely for combat. The defiant also had six torpedo launchers, and phaser cannons along with emitters. Compare this with a galaxy classes 2 launchers and phaser banks and you have the clear distinction between DPS and tank.
So yea, DPS at its finest, small enough that I am sure that, if hit, wont be able to sustain much damage. Which is why speed is important here. Also note that in Bridge Commander, there was no such thing as missing your target. I am sure missing is a part of STO as no computer can redirect a shot after it has been fired.
The intrepid class doing crazy things with its deflector dish makes sense as well as it is a science ship and maybe the deflector dish used has features that other deflector dishes dont. In fact, this makes perfect sense considering in 2371 the ship was BRAND NEW TECHNOLOGY for the most part while the galaxy class, having been developed in the 2350s, may not have had the technology inherently designed into it. Sure it could be retrofitted in later, but isnt that what the modules in STO are for?
IMO, the combat looks like a mashup of Starfleet command, and bridge commander. As far as exploration goes, Ive played eve and had all the exploration I can take for a space MMO. Only so much darkness you can see. I will be happy if the quests are engrossing enough that I feel I want to keep my character progessing.
Long story short, I will play this game and I hope many others do, even if it is just for the Trek skin because I am sure that many games we've played in the past have all just been skinned space combat sims, rts games or fps games.
That said, shut up and play.
Let the flaming begin.
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Comments
i'm always amazed that people can write such long winded posts but can't seem to do this in other aspects of their life (School, work...ect)
Anyway the only real decent part of that entire post was the ending.
Yes, please just shut up and play (for those who want to play)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
If only you knew. Work can be such a drag... reports are satans work.
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I see what your saying but i still think they went about it wrong. I dont think supporting this IP will allow for more Star Trek in the future we need to let it die an pray we get a better one. Since you will be playing i do hope that you enjoy your time and i dont see a post from you about wasting your money.
Doubtful. I bought warhammer, 50 bucks, played 1 day and its on my bookshelf collecting dust. Do I consider it a waste? No. But to each his own. I will have it there to go back to one day if I ever decide to give it another go. Thats the beauty of MMOs. I can buy it on launch day, wait usually about 6-9 months and go back to a completely different game. AMAZING!
*edit* I also bought Aion, which I am currently playing and will continue to play probably even while I play STO. I like to have options with my MMOs. Subs arent a big deal, 15 a month isnt much. Only people who dont play more can't really afford it and tend to whine when a new game drops with a 15 dollar sub.
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Sorry, I don't support shit in the hopes a better turd will come along after it.
You want to support the IP? Buy the DVD's and buy the books.
Sorry, I don't support shit in the hopes a better turd will come along after it.
You want to support the IP? Buy the DVD's and buy the books.
Well this is the best shit we've got atm. And yes, I have already done so. But by not supporting the crap, giving feedback, how will we ever get something better? Note: starfleet command, bridge commander, ok games but could have been better. MMOs allow us to mold a game as it progresses through our feedback. If it is not there, how will it develop? If it fails, do you think another Star Trek MMO will be made? I highly doubt it. So this time, we need to show we want it.
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And that right there is exactly what Cryptic is banking on. They don't care about your feedback, or what anyone else thinks, because THEY'RE ALL YOU'VE GOT.
Funnily enough, SOE thought the same. Then Bioware entered the scene. Just like there is now another Star Wars mmo coming out, there WILL be another BETTER Star Trek mmo in the future.
Your seriously saying we should let a game die before it is even out of its BETA NDA?? Every bit of guesswork on this game is still supposition based off a few officially leaked videos. And you have already doomed this game to utter failure based off of what, 5 minutes of video footage?
THIS is what is wrong with the MMO community these days. Who cares what the game developers are churning out, it doesn't matter when the player base decides success or failure LONG before they ever put them out.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
And that right there is exactly what Cryptic is banking on. They don't care about your feedback, or what anyone else thinks, because THEY'RE ALL YOU'VE GOT.
Funnily enough, SOE thought the same. Then Bioware entered the scene. Just like there is now another Star Wars mmo coming out, there WILL be another BETTER Star Trek mmo in the future.
The problem with that logic is that the star wars fanbase is larger than the star trek fanbase. If this doesnt do well, I dont think it will be that easy. Along with the fact that CBS is a lot more strict with its liscence of Star Trek than Lucasfilm which has its OWN GAME COMPANY.
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Gene and Majel are both dead and gone, there is no quality control or "strictness" with the IP anymore.
The "re-boot" film? Wouldn't have made it past Gene or Majel. The "make-your-own-alien" in Star Trek: Online? Would never have been allowed under Gene or Majel.
CBS is looking to whore ST out just as bad, if not more so, as Lucas has SW.
Sorry, I don't support shit in the hopes a better turd will come along after it.
You want to support the IP? Buy the DVD's and buy the books.
Well this is the best shit we've got atm. And yes, I have already done so. But by not supporting the crap, giving feedback, how will we ever get something better? Note: starfleet command, bridge commander, ok games but could have been better. MMOs allow us to mold a game as it progresses through our feedback. If it is not there, how will it develop? If it fails, do you think another Star Trek MMO will be made? I highly doubt it. So this time, we need to show we want it.
When they make crap, don't buy it. It will fail. When they make good stuff (which takes more effort), buy it and it will do well. If you buy Star Trek products regardless of whether they are any good or not, then you just teach the companies that they can churn ANYTHING out, slap Star Trek on it, and make a profit on it. That tells them to not take the effort to make good products, because bad ones are easier and sell anyway.
Another Star Trek MMO would be made. Might take 10 years or something, might just take 5, but it would definitely happen. Just like eventually they'll have another Star Trek series. Even if the next Star Trek series is crap and is canceled after a year, they'll be another one eventually. The IP has proven to be popular and good enough to revisit. However, again, if you just support anything that gets churned out, then don't expect them to have ANY incentive to make quality products.
It's kinda like buying those super-cheap tissues. Even though they are rough and irritate the crap out of your nose, companies keep making them because people are dumb enough to make a market for them. If people stopped doing that to a large enough degree, then they wouldn't be made anymore. (Tissues have a wider market than Star Trek, so there's a significant base of people that only buy good tissues, whereas I am not sure there's enough Trekkies so that if a lot of us buy crap that we'll ever see anything better. Games, movies, and television shows are a lot more expensive to make than tissues after all).
@the OP:
When i hear stuff like "Tank,DPS,Support" or "Buff,Debuff" on a consistent basis from more or less official sources of a SCI-FI product, then i simply have doubts about the concept/design.
That will probably not stop me to TRY the product, but it might just be enough to keep me from playing it for an extended time.
As others have said in other threads, ST is NOT primarily about combat/action - even though it plays an important role in the shows.
About the idea to support a product despite it missing your expectations, just because no (curent) alternative:
That's BS.
Money talks, nothing else.
Sure, there will be forums for "feedback" - but if you REALLY think that this feedback would make them "redesign" the game (provided something about the design were indeed "wrong" - we Non-Betas have to wait and see as of yet to decide this),
then you are being just too naive.
The way to go is this:
Try the game at release, give constructive(!) feedback, and if you do not like it DROP it.
As i said, money talks - and if enough people agree with you and do the same THEN you might stand a chance that the feedback is being heard/acted on.
If you only give feedback about things you do not like yet fail to back this up with cash then you will more likely than not achive NOTHING.
It is simply a truth of life, sadly.
And your point about the subs:
That is rubbish as well - and also partly beside the point.
15USD might not be much for you, for others it is their whole "allowance" (Pocketmoney).
Besides, if i were to play more than one game, those 15USD per sub would add up rather quickly, wouldn't they?
And i would ALWAYS consider 50USD spent on ANYTHING i use only once a complete WASTE of cash (and other resources).
You do not just buy a car that's then collecting dust in the garage simply because it is cheap and/or looks shiny, or do you?
So why buy/support a game for these reasons when you do not use it?
But the above is just opinion and as such not really discussion-worthy - where you are missing the point is:
Mostly it is not the money/fee that is limiting how many games are played, it is the time one decides to spend.
I can either be a casual (super-casual even if we are talking numbers) player in more than one game
OR be a "harrdcore" player in exactly ONE game.
That is, provided one has a life besides gaming (Job, friends...).
I for one COULD afford to pay for more than one game, only i CHOOSE to play only one at a time, but that one quite intensively usually.
About the "shut up and play" line:
That's easily said and not as easily done.
Or can you play STO yet? i cannot.
That is why i looking forward to release, yet at the same time i AM getting more and more worried if they manage to met my expextations even peripheraly.
Not because my expectations were so high, but because i get the impression that they are not targeting at the "normal" ST audience, which differs GREATLY from the SW-fellowship.
Once again the doomsayers and trolls are out in force. I love how the people who haven't even played this game come out to decry it based on what they assume must be true by what they've read-into about random quotes from "more or less official" sources.
The OPs post was a good one, and I agree with it to a large extent. You guys have nothing to worry about, the game will be fine. What are you going to say if the game is actually good but you've just spent the last 6 months talking about how crap it was going to be and trying to scare off potential customers? What the hell is wrong with you?
Wait until you play the game!
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Sorry, I don't support shit in the hopes a better turd will come along after it.
You want to support the IP? Buy the DVD's and buy the books.
Well this is the best shit we've got atm. And yes, I have already done so. But by not supporting the crap, giving feedback, how will we ever get something better? Note: starfleet command, bridge commander, ok games but could have been better. MMOs allow us to mold a game as it progresses through our feedback. If it is not there, how will it develop? If it fails, do you think another Star Trek MMO will be made? I highly doubt it. So this time, we need to show we want it.
I don't know how much experience you have with MMOs, but 'this is all we've got, let's work with it' is the WORST reason to support an MMO. It's giving in. I am not advocating not playing the game, if you really want to, do it.
What I am saying is give feedback on things you don't like...don't just blindly accept this version. And what I am also saying is, it's a bad sign when experienced MMO players are coming forward and stating that they already don't like what they see.
I seem to recall a bunch of carebears coming forward and saying "Let's try this, people, you don't know how good it will be until you try."
That was said about the SWG NGE right before release. We all know how that turned out, don't we?
It's called experience, Blurr. Something that you obviously have, and yet are determined not to use to at least be apprehensive about this product. I'm trying to figure out why. I'll leave it at that.
And that right there is exactly what Cryptic is banking on. They don't care about your feedback, or what anyone else thinks, because THEY'RE ALL YOU'VE GOT.
Funnily enough, SOE thought the same. Then Bioware entered the scene. Just like there is now another Star Wars mmo coming out, there WILL be another BETTER Star Trek mmo in the future.
QFT. It saddens me the number of people that will buy a boxed turd as long as it has the right label.
So let me get this straight...you can say the game will be fine based on what you've seen, but somehow people that think this game will fail hard based on what they've seen aren't entitled to speak up?
I was fairly excited about the game up until a week ago. Didn't see any reason to make any posts on it though. So, to be fair to me, I've only been bashing the game for about a week. Anyhow, the various revelations about the game have made me decide not to buy it. I've expressed why I am not going to buy it. If my reasoning is as awful as you seem to think it is, then you have nothing to worry about, since no one will listen to me -- I'm not good at passionate or moving writing, cold logic is what I operate under, so it isn't likely to sway anyone for emotional reasons.
Anyhow, you should consider that people on your side of the fence are half the reason there is so much arguing. I'd be happy stating my reasons and leaving things alone...but, like a lot of people, if a few people come on and say "I don't think your reasoning is right" or "you're a doodoo head" then I'll defend my position. That usually results in a back and forth, but you shouldn't forget that you're half of that equation.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Just curious here, but for all those that have been going on about 'Star Trek isn't just about combat'.
While I agree with you; have you read the Back Story for THIS GAME? Not ST lore, not the movies, nothing else but THIS GAME?
Because from what I've read of it, the whole back story is the whole place is AT WAR.
Now I agree that they could have done so much more with the IP and frankly I would have rather had a game set in the classic trek universe that would have given us diplo, exploration and combat, but that's not what they did. Instead they jumped the years ahead and set up a universe in conflict. While that should still give us a (smaller) chance for diplo and exploring the main focus would be combat and that's what they're giving us. We may not like the lore they set up, but they do seem to be running with that lore.
Will it be a good game? Who knows. I plan on trying it and if I can get a years worth of enjoyment out of it (like PotBS gave me) I'll call it a personal success.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Your post seems to act like this Lore was some brilliant innovation that wrote itself and Cryptic just had to deal with it. In reality they made the lore so that they didn't have to worry much about non-combat stuff.
And that right there is exactly what Cryptic is banking on. They don't care about your feedback, or what anyone else thinks, because THEY'RE ALL YOU'VE GOT.
Funnily enough, SOE thought the same. Then Bioware entered the scene. Just like there is now another Star Wars mmo coming out, there WILL be another BETTER Star Trek mmo in the future.
Another? Yes. Better? I'm not so sure.
The IP is going in the toilet. Roddenbery's Trek might well be dead.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I pretty much stopped right here. Supporting the IP does not mean buying up garbage. Garbage is easier to produce than quality, so if garbage sells, what do you suppose you will get next time? Just look at the Star Wars franchise if you have any doubts.
Maybe we disagree here, but I don't want "more Trek", I want "good Trek."
Supporting garbage slapped with a Star Trek sticker is disrespectful to the IP. This game needs to be quality to deserve any true Trek fan support.
This is BS. Cryptic got the license to the IP just to draw in people like you.
Companies will make crap if we show we will buy it.
Honestly, as a Trek fan, you should be ashamed.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2