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The Reason WoW Clones seem stail and not innovating, isnt because its a WoW clone, but because WoW t

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  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by blondeh


     Dont forget WAR implemented gaining XP from PVP. They also had a feature that allowed you to join a battleground from anywhere in the world...
    WoW soon added those features. I'd play WAR but WOW has pretty much all of WARS features and more! Plus WoW's movment, combat and general game play is more fluent.  WARs classes all felt the same. :(



     

    Oh yeah I forgot those.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by arctarus


    Most mmo often takes ideas off one another and implement into their own game. Nothing wrong regarding that, as long as its not a obvious rip off, like some game gona release in a few days time.
    But they are stale because they offer nothing new coming out after WoW. Same things just different skin, a little favour added here and there. They do have innovative ideas, but very little. The whole of the game still feels like the same as WoW, and that's where the clone comes in... 

    .I don´t think that is the problem here. Wow did steal most of it's early ideas from EQ and have also taken a lot of features from other games. What really made Wow so succesful was it's polish, good programming and the fact that they work really hard to fix bugs fast. EQ Didn't have Strain and Kaplan to get things working, otherwise things could have been different.

     

    NO, I think the problem today is that MMOs been basically the same for 10 years, most of the players have however just been in it for 5 years but it is still a long time. So we needs something new and fresh now.

    There is no reason to change from Wow (or whatever you are playing) into a almost identical game with just more modern graphics. If the devs wants to attract new players they need a new concept, the old pioneered by Meridian 59 and EQ have gone as far as it can now.

    Fortunately are there already out game trying a different style (like Eve) and more are coming (Guildwars 2, TOR and WoDO are worth keeping your eyes on). As soon as anyone figures out another system that is fun will things change.

    All game genres needs to be re-invented sooner or later, or they will die.

  • uquipuuquipu Member Posts: 1,516

    The reason I hate WoW is the same reason I hate:

    Microsoft
    Google
    McDonalds
    Wal Mart
    The United States

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • SignusMSignusM Member Posts: 2,225
    Originally posted by arctarus


    Most mmo often takes ideas off one another and implement into their own game. Nothing wrong regarding that, as long as its not a obvious rip off, like some game gona release in a few days time.
    But they are stale because they offer nothing new coming out after WoW. Same things just different skin, a little favour added here and there. They do have innovative ideas, but very little. The whole of the game still feels like the same as WoW, and that's where the clone comes in...
     
     

    Except the main difference here is that WoW has never come up with a new idea itself in its entire development history. It's like the borg of MMORPGs. 

     

  • pojungpojung Member Posts: 810
    Originally posted by uquipu


    The reason I hate WoW is the same reason I hate:
    Microsoft

    Google

    McDonalds

    Wal Mart

    The United States



     

    Globalisation?

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    The connections between those game elements are so flimsy as to be nonexistant in many of your examples.  Especially the ones where you try to sum up entire expansions as copying specific games.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by uquipu


    The reason I hate WoW is the same reason I hate:
    Microsoft

    Google

    McDonalds

    Wal Mart

    The United States



     

    Oh

    Because they are:

    Succesful, Great, Top Dogs, Work

    ?

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by arctarus


    Most mmo often takes ideas off one another and implement into their own game. Nothing wrong regarding that, as long as its not a obvious rip off, like some game gona release in a few days time.
    But they are stale because they offer nothing new coming out after WoW. Same things just different skin, a little favour added here and there. They do have innovative ideas, but very little. The whole of the game still feels like the same as WoW, and that's where the clone comes in...
     
     

    Except the main difference here is that WoW has never come up with a new idea itself in its entire development history. It's like the borg of MMORPGs. 

     



     

    If thats the case, then wouldnt WoW be 100% EQ + more? But I see a lot of WoW hate from EQ players on this site that say it is different.

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Axehilt


    The connections between those game elements are so flimsy as to be nonexistant in many of your examples.  Especially the ones where you try to sum up entire expansions as copying specific games.



     

    Please, then explain then if you say so.

  • DanwarrDanwarr Member CommonPosts: 185
    Originally posted by Zoulz

    Originally posted by Carambole

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Maybe I missed something, but where in that entire post is there any correlation between humans and monkeys. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I fail to see the relevance when talking about MMOs. Also, when looking at research into how monkeys actually behave it's pretty impressive given their current state of development. When talking about mass community situations (ie MMOs) I believe you'll find a lot more relevance when looking at it from a herd mentality perspective.

     

    The relevance is this. Do MMO's promote anything positive to our world. Do we enrich our world somehow. Do we feel enriched by playing an MMO. Or are we just in an online rat-race. Note:I used rat this time =)

    When I used to play games I would usually feel good after a session. I'm not saying I don't feel good in MMO's. I do but that's not the point. I took something FROM those games and expressed them in the real world.

    Now we log on to raid. Log off. Log on to say hi. Log off. Log on to do dailies. Log off. Where is the game? The puzzles. The choices. The EMOTION FFS.

     

    (EDIT - Dammit maybe I'm just getting older)

    Dude, if you want emotion, read a good book or play an adventure game. You won't find any of those things in MMOs. Sorry.

    Games are about having fun. Period. Everyone has different ideas of fun, of course. And therein lies the problem. People can't seem to cope with the fact that others enjoy different things. Unable to see things from another perspective than their own.

    Why can't MMOs have emotion? A MMOs is a video game is it not? Video games are a form of media just like TV shows, movies, books and novels.

    Great media should make people think about things and encourage the sharing of experiences and thoughts about whatever the book/movie/program/game.

    If MMOs can't be great media then why are they even worth our time as a society?

    Yes, games are meant to be fun but they need to become more then that as well.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • SignusMSignusM Member Posts: 2,225
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by blondeh


     Dont forget WAR implemented gaining XP from PVP. They also had a feature that allowed you to join a battleground from anywhere in the world...
    WoW soon added those features. I'd play WAR but WOW has pretty much all of WARS features and more! Plus WoW's movment, combat and general game play is more fluent.  WARs classes all felt the same. :(



     

    Oh yeah I forgot those.

    And heres the problem with new generation of these casual game fanboys.... these features aren't new. WAR had a few new features, but MOST of the features were directly pulled from Dark Age of Camelot, a much deeper and better game than WoW or WAR could hope to be. WoW has ENVER invented ANYTHING.

     

  • ZoulzZoulz Member Posts: 477
    Originally posted by Danwarr

    Originally posted by Zoulz

    Originally posted by Carambole

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Maybe I missed something, but where in that entire post is there any correlation between humans and monkeys. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I fail to see the relevance when talking about MMOs. Also, when looking at research into how monkeys actually behave it's pretty impressive given their current state of development. When talking about mass community situations (ie MMOs) I believe you'll find a lot more relevance when looking at it from a herd mentality perspective.

     

    The relevance is this. Do MMO's promote anything positive to our world. Do we enrich our world somehow. Do we feel enriched by playing an MMO. Or are we just in an online rat-race. Note:I used rat this time =)

    When I used to play games I would usually feel good after a session. I'm not saying I don't feel good in MMO's. I do but that's not the point. I took something FROM those games and expressed them in the real world.

    Now we log on to raid. Log off. Log on to say hi. Log off. Log on to do dailies. Log off. Where is the game? The puzzles. The choices. The EMOTION FFS.

     

    (EDIT - Dammit maybe I'm just getting older)

    Dude, if you want emotion, read a good book or play an adventure game. You won't find any of those things in MMOs. Sorry.

    Games are about having fun. Period. Everyone has different ideas of fun, of course. And therein lies the problem. People can't seem to cope with the fact that others enjoy different things. Unable to see things from another perspective than their own.

    Why can't MMOs have emotion? A MMOs is a video game is it not? Video games are a form of media just like TV shows, movies, books and novels.

    Great media should make people think about things and encourage the sharing of experiences and thoughts about whatever the book/movie/program/game.

    If MMOs can't be great media then why are they even worth our time as a society?

    Yes, games are meant to be fun but they need to become more then that as well.

    Why? :) Of course MMOs can have emotion, but most people will not bother playing them or skip those parts. I mean, how many people actually read quest descriptions? People just want to know what to do, where to do it and what they get from doing it. Most people don't have the time or energy to concentrate and engross themselves in a game anymore. Most gamers are very casual and just want to be entertained after a hard day at work or for a few hours during the weekends.

    I'm not saying I like it, but I believe this how it is. Developers are starting to pick up on this, and it's only going to get bigger and bigger. Why cater to the smaller groups when you can have the casual/social gamers?

  • SuraknarSuraknar Member UncommonPosts: 852
    Originally posted by Carambole

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Maybe I missed something, but where in that entire post is there any correlation between humans and monkeys. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I fail to see the relevance when talking about MMOs. Also, when looking at research into how monkeys actually behave it's pretty impressive given their current state of development. When talking about mass community situations (ie MMOs) I believe you'll find a lot more relevance when looking at it from a herd mentality perspective.

     

    The relevance is this. Do MMO's promote anything positive to our world. Do we enrich our world somehow. Do we feel enriched by playing an MMO. Or are we just in an online rat-race. Note:I used rat this time =)

    When I used to play games I would usually feel good after a session. I'm not saying I don't feel good in MMO's. I do but that's not the point. I took something FROM those games and expressed them in the real world.

    Now we log on to raid. Log off. Log on to say hi. Log off. Log on to do dailies. Log off. Where is the game? The puzzles. The choices. The EMOTION FFS.

     

    (EDIT - Dammit maybe I'm just getting older)

     

    I would use another word than Emotion, in my view what your looking for is ADVENTURE, this is what has been lost in the MMORPG's, due to the ascension of the casual play.

    When most people want or can afford to play for a couple of hours tops, that does not leave them much time to embark let alone complete an adventure in the MMO.

    In a solo game such as Dragon Age Origins, the player could always save their progress and do another hour and slowly complete the adventure in an MMORPG however that mechanic is not available or possibile, so the game degenerates in to a list of mini-games, little puzzles inside a huge maze designed to reward lab rats.

    We complete the daily quest and we get a piece of cheese, we complete the quest and we get another piece of cheese, and every week end, we can complete a 5-10 man raid, and get a bigger piece of cheese.

    Ultimately however, the realities of the MMORPG player community are varied. For instance, I personally played WoW but when it felt adventure less and repetitive when it felt a maze for lab-rats it is the moment I moved on and havn't looked back since.

    So WoW is a PVE game designed for its Majority of Casual Players. There is a reason for that , and lets not forget that reason is because it initially targeted its own following Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo players all of which were solo games and thus the MMO had to have casual content in it to cater to these people.

    It just so happened that many other MMORPG players many of which were being brought in to the opposite direction (See Lineage2), gave it a try and liked the approach.

    And so did I and many of my friends from UO as well. Mechanically speaking, WoW is a Fun game, you do not have to grind for days/weeks/months to achieve personal or even group goals.

    While UO did not have this Grind (due to the non class based non level based Gameplay) either, almost all games after it did, starting with EQ onwards, and none of us actually liked that, because we did not have it in UO either. So when we tried WoW it was refreshing and considered the best Level based, class based game out there even today, by many of us veteran gamers from UO, it really has fun PvP mechanics and implementation, no hassles involved.

    Yes, it is true that, it is also viewed as shallow compared to a Playground, Sandbox Virtual World MMORPG, yet, not many are making these anymore, we kind of have no choice than to play Level based Class based Themepark games instead, and we feel that WoW encompasses the best gameplay geared towards fun within that premise, why move to another game if it attempts the same when we have fully developed characters with plenty of achievements in WoW already?

    Plus as the OP said, Blizzard is bringing every new innovation from other Themepark games in adapted mode in to WoW too..

    If we are to move it will have to be for something quite different, without leveling and without class based system preferably, and with Virtual World Dynamics...I am looking forward to STO as it is, change of setting a bit, from fantasy to Sci-Fi, space ship combat will be great too...and I really do not think that this is something WoW can bring in, so I do not think it can be called a Clone.

    Which brings us to the last argument here, the "Clone" factor. I believe the problem is two fold, from one side the Vets of MMORPG's call a new Themepark a WoW clone because of the Gameplay itself, and from the other the WoW Players call any new game (for the majority), a WoW clone the moment they see a similar interface and graphics.

    If its looks and Moves like WoW, it is because it is a clone of WoW.

    So again I really think, there is no escape from the juggernaut that is WoW yet, if you try to do battle with it your chances to Win are very slim, unless you simply deny it battle, but who is bold enough to invest in something really different?

    That is the real question.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
  • JosherJosher Member Posts: 2,818

     Which MMO had Warrior charge and intercept before WOW?

    Might as well say Phantasy Star ripped everything from Final Fantasy and Sonic ripped/STOLE off of Mario because you kill things by jumping on their heads.  Funny though.  NOBODY gave a shit!!!  They're just all great games that have their own feel.  If someone said Sonic stole from Mario I'd laugh at the geek.

    But since WOW completely obliterated every MMO, Blizzard is the thief.  Get a life nerds=)  It doesn't matter who did what first.  All that matters is who did what BEST and Blizzard has done most things the best.  Live with it already.  

     

  • SuraknarSuraknar Member UncommonPosts: 852
    Originally posted by Josher


     Which MMO had Warrior charge and intercept before WOW?
    Might as well say Phantasy Star ripped everything from Final Fantasy and Sonic ripped/STOLE off of Mario because you kill things by jumping on their heads.  Funny though.  NOBODY gave a shit!!!  They're just all great games that have their own feel.  If someone said Sonic stole from Mario I'd laugh at the geek.
    But since WOW completely obliterated every MMO, Blizzard is the thief.  Get a life nerds=)  It doesn't matter who did what first.  All that matters is who did what BEST and Blizzard has done most things the best.  Live with it already.  
     

    Yes, as far as Themepark, class/level based designs go, WoW is really the best in that category, I will agree. This mind you does not make it the best MMORPG design nevertheless in my eyes, however it would be difficult and part of a different discussion to get in to such a debate because both sides have to have a common point of reference and WoW players do not have the reference point of non Themepark games, therefore, we really have to compare WoW with the rest of the Themepark Designs following the EQ line...and within that line WoW is the best.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Axehilt


    The connections between those game elements are so flimsy as to be nonexistant in many of your examples.  Especially the ones where you try to sum up entire expansions as copying specific games.

    Please, then explain then if you say so.

    Well you poke holes in your own arguments in a lot of places already (like how you concede that WOW's Maelstrom was around long before Aion; and how you point out that yes, Blizzard's own game Diablo 2 had gems long before Guild Wars.)

    Saying things like BC = WAR is totally useless.  Because you're obviously not intending for it to mean that BC was all ideas scavenged from WAR, and yet despite that lack of intent that's what you're saying.

    So the vast majority of your "connections" between WOW's ideas and other games were extremely flimsy, leaving only a scattering of true connections -- and even those are a bit questionable.  (Like arena combat, which would've happened with or without Guild Wars because Quake, Counterstrike, and countless FPSes had shown that constrained arenas are the best place for competitive play -- and that's what WOW players were asking for at the time.  Even the earliest of those games (Quake) was simply a copy of even earlier constrained-arena competitive gameplay.)

    So many of the changes were just stuff players were asking for constantly ever since WOW Retail released.  Hybrids wanting to be hybrids?  Yeah, not the result of WAR but simply the result of Blizzard finally getting around to it.  Heck even in beta of Retail WOW I suggested an implementation of Alterac Valley (which wasn't released) which was quite similar to how Wintergrasp plays out (except with resource management.)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • blondehblondeh Member UncommonPosts: 540
    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by blondeh


     Dont forget WAR implemented gaining XP from PVP. They also had a feature that allowed you to join a battleground from anywhere in the world...
    WoW soon added those features. I'd play WAR but WOW has pretty much all of WARS features and more! Plus WoW's movment, combat and general game play is more fluent.  WARs classes all felt the same. :(



     

    Oh yeah I forgot those.

    And heres the problem with new generation of these casual game fanboys.... these features aren't new. WAR had a few new features, but MOST of the features were directly pulled from Dark Age of Camelot, a much deeper and better game than WoW or WAR could hope to be. WoW has ENVER invented ANYTHING.

     

    Excuse me? What qualifies someone to be a "new generation casual game fanboy"? I cant say I know what every feature a mmo has or had. I was to busy enjoying Star Wars Galaxies back in the beginning to care about any other mmo.  I only took notice of other mmo's when SOE/LA decided to destroy the game i love. I now have a shelf full of mmo game boxes gathering dust. 

     Back when I did jedi the "hard way" I was a different person/gamer and had different priorties. I was single, in my early 20's and didnt have many worries or cares. Now I'm touching 30 with 2 kids,  1 on the way and a Mrs that loves the nices things in life. I would never have the time to enjoy a game like pre-cu again. So I turn to the more causal games for my quick mmo fix. Do I really enjoy the quick and easy mmo's. Not as much as I'd  enjoy a game like pre-cu. Problem is I just dont have the time anymore. Which sucks.

    According to you tho my opinion doesnt count for much because you see me as a "New generation causal gamer". Thing is you dont even know me. 

    image

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    I pretty much agree with the OP, it's a good intuition.

    Wow staff is damn smart... They know exactly how to retain their subscribers and how to beat the competitors... the fact that Mythic developers and all the other cloners did Wow copycats helped Blizzard's designers incalculably.

    Those persons, while making warhammer, they were inadvertently testing new features for WoW. Blizzard simply had to add those features in their game, and people would either stay there or go from the "testing" game to Blizzard's... We can say Warhammer Online(and all the other clones) was a WoW test server.

    That's exactly the reason why(ill write it in bold, maybe the damn developer dumbasses will read it)

    TO BEAT BLOODY WOW YOU HAVE TO MAKE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME , so that Blizzard can't put the new features inside their game 

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800
    Originally posted by wartywarlock

    Originally posted by Tarka


    Personally I feel that it is not necessarily WHAT concept has been copied from another game (whether it is WoW or anything else for that matter), but it is HOW it is copied and subsequently refined that makes all the difference.  And money does not guarantee success in doing that.
    And this is what happens with certain games that came after WoW.  The devs saw the concepts in WoW and attempted to integrate them into their own games, but did so in such a poor way that they failed to achieve their goal, and that was to attract a sizeable playerbase.
    On the other hand, this is why WoW is so popular, it took previous concepts and refined them into a formula that many find appealing.  No one can deny this fact.  And this is what differentiates WoW from its so-called "WoW Clone" competitors.

     

    QFT - people arent mad that WoW stole their games ideas, they are mad that they did so and made it infinitely better. I dont kniw how blizzard does it, they just do.

     

    OK can someone explain this to me, how does Blizzard supposable make everything better then other developers? As mentioned in this thread Blizzard is introducing Guild leveling with there next expansion, to me this system looks like a direct copy of the guild leveling in War, and to some extent LOTRO guild leveling. They took the idea of WARs living guild and added items for there own game into it! So how does that make it better? Just because it is blizzard? If that is the case I really feel sorry for the future of gaming!

    Don't get me wrong I do not hate blizzard, just like I do not hate microsoft and windows (another monopoly in its arena). But I do believe in Free Enterprise and I know that competition has to exist for it to survive. Blind devotion to any business will eventually spell death to that industry!

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800
    Originally posted by SignusM 

    It's like the borg of MMORPGs. 



     

     

    Thanks that made me laugh! Does that make me a star trek nerd?

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Axehilt


    The connections between those game elements are so flimsy as to be nonexistant in many of your examples.  Especially the ones where you try to sum up entire expansions as copying specific games.

    Please, then explain then if you say so.

    Well you poke holes in your own arguments in a lot of places already (like how you concede that WOW's Maelstrom was around long before Aion; and how you point out that yes, Blizzard's own game Diablo 2 had gems long before Guild Wars.)

    You still fail to get the point. TBC and WoTLK both were planed long before Vanilla even came out. That still doesnt mean the Xpac didnt have MMOs as main targets that they riped off during those periods. Maelstrom was known long before Aion was in beta, but it wasnt developed. Which allowed Blizzard to rip off and Develop off new ideas. Just look at WoTLK, and how similar it is to Warhammer. Yet Northrend Xpac was long planed way before any news of a Warhammer MMO. Also when I was refering to Gems in Diablo, I was pointing out, that as a name. I got into the same argument with somebody on another forum, over the fact that Blizzard was trying to turn WoW into a Guild Wars 1.5 with their TBC xpac. And most MMO players dont like that concept, because GW is not a MMO. Gems as Diablo may call it, were also in other games, just as Warriors and Paladins where in other games long before Everquest. Doesnt mean it wasnt riped and put in, because it was in EverQuest. That was my Point.

    Saying things like BC = WAR is totally useless. Because you're obviously not intending for it to mean that BC was all ideas scavenged from WAR, and yet despite that lack of intent that's what you're saying.

    I didnt say BC was War. I said TBC was Guild Wars. WoTLK aka Northrend as it was known in WoW's early development stages, had its target set on Warhammer. Nobody can deny this. Seriously.

    So the vast majority of your "connections" between WOW's ideas and other games were extremely flimsy, leaving only a scattering of true connections -- and even those are a bit questionable. (Like arena combat, which would've happened with or without Guild Wars because Quake, Counterstrike, and countless FPSes had shown that constrained arenas are the best place for competitive play -- and that's what WOW players were asking for at the time. Even the earliest of those games (Quake) was simply a copy of even earlier constrained-arena competitive gameplay.)

    ?? Those are FPS, not Fantasy based RPGs. See now you seem to be trying to come up with lame excuses to cover for Blizzard. Not going to work here. Not saying I dislike the fact that WoW does this, and are very good at this Rip off thing. But trying to deny the fact that they do this, is just plain wrong.

    So many of the changes were just stuff players were asking for constantly ever since WOW Retail released. Hybrids wanting to be hybrids? Yeah, not the result of WAR but simply the result of Blizzard finally getting around to it. Heck even in beta of Retail WOW I suggested an implementation of Alterac Valley (which wasn't released) which was quite similar to how Wintergrasp plays out (except with resource management.)

    Alot of stuff the development team said they wouldnt do early on. Till games like War and GW were hitting up the hype charts, did we see change. Remember the comments from Blizzard about no Server Jumping for PvP characters (something like that)? Well Blizzard changed their mind once Warhammer, the Hyped up World AV styled PvP MMORPG, came to the scene. Remember that? THink back. EXP from PvP? Instant queues for BG from anywhere? Achievements?

     

    IMO Phased Quest was Blizzard way being innovating to take on Warhammer's Inovating style of questing. Plubic Quest.



     

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by blondeh


     Dont forget WAR implemented gaining XP from PVP. They also had a feature that allowed you to join a battleground from anywhere in the world...
    WoW soon added those features. I'd play WAR but WOW has pretty much all of WARS features and more! Plus WoW's movment, combat and general game play is more fluent.  WARs classes all felt the same. :(



     

    Oh yeah I forgot those.

    And heres the problem with new generation of these casual game fanboys.... these features aren't new. WAR had a few new features, but MOST of the features were directly pulled from Dark Age of Camelot, a much deeper and better game than WoW or WAR could hope to be. WoW has ENVER invented ANYTHING.

     

    But what really TICs ME OFF

     

    is when these fanbois of these new MMOs, become rabit WoW haters, and start to hate on every single idea that WoW has.

    The reason I find this so damn stupid is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, As you put it.

    WOW NEVER INVENTED MOST OF THE STUFF IN THERE!!!! So why do these extreme fanboys go so far in rage to keep the good ideas that are in WoW, away from their own new "Home-Boy" MMO?

    Just look at this from a real life point of view. Well maybe not really Real life, but yall figure out what I mean______- Lets say a Cave man invented the Wheel. But Thousands of years later, the new humans enve Ford (Or who ever invented the Car). Ford decides that the WHeel was a great Idea, so they developed their Car idea, using the Cave man's Wheel idea.  ___ And the New Car makers enve Ford, so they go into an extreme Anti-Ford rage, and decide to make cars that dont use Any ideas Ford use. So they go about hating on the Wheel Idea because Ford Uses it. So they decide to use Triangles for Wheels instead.

    Get the picture yet. This is the same shit that Plagued the Warhammer Beta imo. Too much WoW hate, and focus on being Anti-WoW rather then sticking to the point of being a Great MMO. I know Fans may disagree, but fans are always blinded to the truth of problems. And is Anti-WoW thing going on is a Major Problem that is being Ingnored far too long. This is whats Plaguing the MMO genre, not WoW as many people on this site seem to put it.

    Theme Park is basically another way of saying WoW clone to many people here. Once they realize you cant make a major Theme Park MMO while ignoring the things that made WoW successful, we will start having more smashing hits like other gaming Genres have. This logic has proven itself in all forms of gaming.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    If you can't see that the gameplay premise of WOW Arenas and Counterstrike is exactly the same (even down to "you're dead, wait for next round") then I'm not real sure there's discussion to be had here.  Getting hung up on "Ohmigawd, but it's a FPS!" shows you're not in the right mindset to discuss similarities between games.

     

    Counterstrike isn't even the first competitive arena by a longshot (gladiator pits have been rather popular throughout history, in all their various forms.)

    The only connection you've made which might carry a ring of truth is Achievements, and even that was likely influenced far more by XBox360 than by Warhammer.  Also XP from PVP.

    I don't even know what you're trying to say about Gems (or really the entire paragraph where you try to clarify your point -.-)  Gems are exactly the same(not just in name) between D2 and WOW.  Same mechanic; same name.  Claiming it's at all related to GW is just silly.

    I mean if all you said was "Blizzard takes most their mechanics from preexisting games", then yeah!  Yes!  Absolutely, I'm on board with that.

    But as it stands, you really sound like you're stretching to make these connections, and the majority of them just aren't true.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • Minion552Minion552 Member Posts: 67

    Who cares if WOW has taken some ideas from other games, they do this to boost revenue your telling me that if you owned a pizza place and offered 31 toppings and another place comes up a year later offering 41 toppings and breadsticks your not going to try and compete?

    So all you are really saying is you hate blizzard for exspanding WOW to fit the needs and wants of all types of players? and just to clear some things up EQ was not the first MMO UO was, UO exspanded its game 13 times in over a decade to compete with the ever changing world of MMO's. Most of what you see in games now where taken from those games UO had Factions EQ started the Instance Dungeon system every other game has just built on the foundation these games paved the way for.

     

    WOW clones are trying to do the same just not doing it correctly, Most of these games fail for the simple fact your in a game with 200k people tops trying to play a game like WOW where it takes a sub base like WOW has to pull it off succesfuly. The reason WOW is as big as it is and why people in the industry can not figure it out is WOW caters to all types of players and they planned it just right they waited for SWG to start falling in the crapper EQ was dead and EQ2 was crap at launch they waited for the right moment to come into the world and draw millions of pissed of players from thier Ex MMO. That foundation was layed and is what we know as the biggiest MMO of all time. It's just good bussiness.....

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    I don't hate WoW. I hate WoW players. Most of them are very ignorant of the rest of this genre. I also see trolling most often among WoW players. A culture that I dislike and which I consider childish.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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