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Will MO make the same mistake DF made? No Pve?
metalhead980
Member Posts: 2,658
I don't care how Hardcore a pvper you are. You connot disagree that having atleast decent Pve mechanics brings more people to the game and in turn giving you the pvper more people to play with and against.
So with that said will MO have a decent feature set for the pver types?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Comments
Agreee with OP. You'll never make a good game if you only focus on a single thing. Even EVE has tons of PvE content.
pve is gonna be more UO style then wow style. No quests. But they do have a lot of interesting things planned. Wait and see i would guess
well when I think pve in a sandbox game I usually expect optional Random missions, Roaming rare mobs and non-instanced dungeons/raids.
Maybe a few optional factions in game to align with.
All standard shit in a sandbox game imo.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I have to agree, that the lack of interesting pve is a mistake Aventurine made, while creating Darkfall.
But i think, that its good they decided to go another way than many other games like wow and warhammer.
With the expansion coming live on thursday they might get rid of this mistake with making pve lots more interesting.
I hope, MO won't make the same mistake like Darkfall, but also make it better than the other games out.
I don't think, that "Kill 20 XXX" or "Collect 100 XXX" or "Kill 100 XXX and then loot 10 XXX from their corpses" are good quests to push people into interesting pve.
Pve should be "natural". You shouldn't notice that you are doing pve, until being right in the middle.
This means no mob-spots with "borders", where you get attacked after stepping into and stop getting attacked, when leaving this borders.
This means no constant number of mobs in these spots.
This means, that a different number of mobs is roaming inside their territory and even attacking other mobs, so people will have great moments watching mobs killing eachother or attacking other players, which were trying to kill something else.
well when I think pve in a sandbox game I usually expect optional Random missions, Roaming rare mobs and non-instanced dungeons/raids.
Maybe a few optional factions in game to align with.
All standard shit in a sandbox game imo.
yeh hopefully they will have that. be cool also if they eve style missions or the old UO escort/ rescue noble crap.
They were talking earlier about mixing pvp with pve. Like one guild will get Bonus for supporting a monster that lives, if someone kills that monster then their bonus is gone. So some they will protect that monster while others will want to kill it
well when I think pve in a sandbox game I usually expect optional Random missions, Roaming rare mobs and non-instanced dungeons/raids.
Maybe a few optional factions in game to align with.
All standard shit in a sandbox game imo.
apart from sandbox, WoW had its share of rare/rare elite mobs with their stories, Wow also has optional factions to align with, for example the centaurs in Desolace, optional, the P.E.T.A. in northrend, optional. WoW isn't really 100% sandbox, but it isn't a complete themepark either...
well when I think pve in a sandbox game I usually expect optional Random missions, Roaming rare mobs and non-instanced dungeons/raids.
Maybe a few optional factions in game to align with.
All standard shit in a sandbox game imo.
apart from sandbox, WoW had its share of rare/rare elite mobs with their stories, Wow also has optional factions to align with, for example the centaurs in Desolace, optional, the P.E.T.A. in northrend, optional. WoW isn't really 100% sandbox, but it isn't a complete themepark either...
Sandbox and themepark games share many features. I don't want to derail my own thread!!!!! so ill leave it at that.
Edit: see that shit! Im posting is so many thread I forgot this one is mine!!!!!
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Agreee with OP. You'll never make a good game if you only focus on a single thing. Even EVE has tons of PvE content.
If the PVP is done right then I'd play a game that focuses only on it like Planetside in 2003. Problem is Darkfall was shit.
Agreee with OP. You'll never make a good game if you only focus on a single thing. Even EVE has tons of PvE content.
If the PVP is done right then I'd play a game that focuses only on it like Planetside in 2003. Problem is Darkfall was shit.
But Planetside was never a MMORPG.
Mortal Online wants itself as a true MMORPG, so there should be some PvE out there even if just to explain some stuff. Even Darkfall devs admit their mistakes and are starting to add more PvE features to their game.
Currently there is not any exciting PvE at all ingame, but there is 2 AI devs that have been working in the silence for quite some time now, but hopefully whatever they've been working with gets in before launch.
http://www.mortalonline.com/feature/history-doesn%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2t-repeat-itself
Is your goal to face a legendary monster? Well, that is usually suicide – if you can find one. But if your guild would actually manage to kill one, it’s dead. Gone. Rare monsters and quests do not resurrect or come again, whether it’s an ancient beast, a crumbling temple, an island rising out of the sea or a great ritual that fails or succeeds.
You might get away with an item never seen before, or the unique scar that tells about the experience. There are not many of these opportunities but they are usually important enough to affect the whole world and its history. All you have to do is be at the right place at the right time.
http://www.mortalonline.com/feature/live-free-world
Devote your life to a crafting profession and become famous for your reliable quality goods. Discover new formulas and recipes and explore the lands to find unique tools and resources.
Choose to believe in one of the Gods and watch its power grow. Fight heretics and burn their temples to rob their Gods of power. Or start a new cult: with enough believers your God might be powerful enough to enter the Pantheon.
Explore the world to discover new places and name them. Venture into ancient caves and temples to find the buried history of the world, including its forgotten knowledge, spells and items. New resources are to be found everywhere in flora, fauna and minerals.
http://www.mortalonline.com/faq
Q: Is there any PvE?
A: Yes, the world is vast and large parts lie waiting to be discovered. Besides the hunting of common and rare animals any traveler is bound to face savage beasts or scavenging mobs. Explorers of the non-human or ancient cultures will find their inhabitants highly unlikely to leave their treasures unguarded. Some very unique creatures roam the world as well, and to confront them you will need creativity and cooperation with other players.
LOL!
I love when Devs do that. They basically make just your average world full of mobs sound so exciting.
I have no real issue with pve being as shallow as killing roaming mobs but many people will.
Ryzom's Pve kind of revolves around just killing shit and going on rare boss hunts but they added a twist. the mobs arent static, they move with season and weather changes. so If you just grind you have a new experience often.
Ryzom's gameworld is incredible and they also managed to add in good pve mechanics like Non-instanced boss lairs/dungeons, Missions and Factions.
The game does lack pvp though this is why im interested in MO i want that perfect blend of pvp focused action with a solid pve foundation.
The more gameplay options the better, if this winds up being just another Gankers paradise with no other options then ill grow tired of it similar to what I did with DF (kicked ass for a couple months then grew tired of the same sieges and newbie ganks).
Sandbox MMOs need more imo.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
LOL!
I love when Devs do that. They basically make just your average world full of mobs sound so exciting.
I have no real issue with pve being as shallow as killing roaming mobs but many people will.
Ryzom's Pve kind of revolves around just killing shit and going on rare boss hunts but they added a twist. the mobs arent static, they move with season and weather changes. so If you just grind you have a new experience often.
Ryzom's gameworld is incredible and they also managed to add in good pve mechanics like Non-instanced boss lairs/dungeons, Missions and Factions.
The game does lack pvp though this is why im interested in MO i want that perfect blend of pvp focused action with a solid pve foundation.
The more gameplay options the better, if this winds up being just another Gankers paradise with no other options then ill grow tired of it similar to what I did with DF (kicked ass for a couple months then grew tired of the same sieges and newbie ganks).
Sandbox MMOs need more imo.
I don't know what thier full plan as far as PvE is to be honest. I believe that this point they're more interested in getting the core functions of the game working so it can be released, and then expanding on it from there.
Mats Person, the creative brain behind everything, mentioned there would be tasks.
He said something about a shaman in a village may pay for ears from something. Or some such stuff. My impression was that while they call them tasks as apposed to quests, there will be your standard get me this type of quest at some point.
There are supposed to be NPC guilds as well. Things like Thieves guilds, mage guilds, etc. that players will be able to join if they meet the correct requirements. While not a 10 man raid or anything, I still consider it to be an element of PvE.
There are supposed to be dungeons that people can explore.
There are mines; while nothing spectacular, and ultimately there will be a level of PvP involved with them (read: Some metals are in more abundance in the mine ((what a shock)) and player groups may attempt to control who can mine in them).
Thievery.
It may sound strange, but I consider it to be an element of PvE. Naturally you'll be picking the pockets of other players, but I don't really think of it soley a PvP mechanic. While it may lead to a fight if the player catches you, it also encompasses the flagging system and the way in wich guards will respond to you.
To me, at least, PvE doesn't exclude entirely player to player interaction. Think of crafting. You make stuff and then you sell it to other players; it's not just a PvE mechanic, it's also a PtP mechanic. I consider thievery the same thing. Not strickly PvP, but not entirely void of PvE at the same time. I know a lot will disagree with me here.
House buidling.
Taming.
Setting up a shop.
Owning a stable.
Being a miner, lumberjack, herbalist.
Hunting.
Exploring.
Map making.
To be honest, whenever I see threads like these I kind of cringe.
No one ever explains exactly what they mean by PvE. Is the OP looking for raids? Quests? What?
Is it not PvE if you hunt animals for thier skins, or is it only PvE if an NPC tells you to do so? Is it not PvE if you're out exploring, find a cave, and decide to see were it goes, or if there's anything valuable inside to mine, or does an NPC have to tell you to go there?
You don't have to have an NPC tell you to gather 9 other people and go kill a minotaur, you can do that on your own, and it's still PvE. Having 1000 quests doesn't mean a game has more PvE, it means that there are 1000 quests that have you go and do what you need to do to level your toon.
In MO I start naked. I don't need an NPC to tell me that I need clothing. I get the tools I need, then I go about getting me something to cover my danglies, and from there I just do whatever I want.
LOL!
I love when Devs do that. They basically make just your average world full of mobs sound so exciting.
I have no real issue with pve being as shallow as killing roaming mobs but many people will.
Ryzom's Pve kind of revolves around just killing shit and going on rare boss hunts but they added a twist. the mobs arent static, they move with season and weather changes. so If you just grind you have a new experience often.
Ryzom's gameworld is incredible and they also managed to add in good pve mechanics like Non-instanced boss lairs/dungeons, Missions and Factions.
The game does lack pvp though this is why im interested in MO i want that perfect blend of pvp focused action with a solid pve foundation.
The more gameplay options the better, if this winds up being just another Gankers paradise with no other options then ill grow tired of it similar to what I did with DF (kicked ass for a couple months then grew tired of the same sieges and newbie ganks).
Sandbox MMOs need more imo.
I don't know what thier full plan as far as PvE is to be honest. I believe that this point they're more interested in getting the core functions of the game working so it can be released, and then expanding on it from there.
Mats Person, the creative brain behind everything, mentioned there would be tasks.
He said something about a shaman in a village may pay for ears from something. Or some such stuff. My impression was that while they call them tasks as apposed to quests, there will be your standard get me this type of quest at some point.
There are supposed to be NPC guilds as well. Things like Thieves guilds, mage guilds, etc. that players will be able to join if they meet the correct requirements. While not a 10 man raid or anything, I still consider it to be an element of PvE.
There are supposed to be dungeons that people can explore.
There are mines; while nothing spectacular, and ultimately there will be a level of PvP involved with them (read: Some metals are in more abundance in the mine ((what a shock)) and player groups may attempt to control who can mine in them).
Thievery.
It may sound strange, but I consider it to be an element of PvE. Naturally you'll be picking the pockets of other players, but I don't really think of it soley a PvP mechanic. While it may lead to a fight if the player catches you, it also encompasses the flagging system and the way in wich guards will respond to you.
To me, at least, PvE doesn't exclude entirely player to player interaction. Think of crafting. You make stuff and then you sell it to other players; it's not just a PvE mechanic, it's also a PtP mechanic. I consider thievery the same thing. Not strickly PvP, but not entirely void of PvE at the same time. I know a lot will disagree with me here.
House buidling.
Taming.
Setting up a shop.
Owning a stable.
Being a miner, lumberjack, herbalist.
Hunting.
Exploring.
Map making.
To be honest, whenever I see threads like these I kind of cringe.
No one ever explains exactly what they mean by PvE. Is the OP looking for raids? Quests? What?
Is it not PvE if you hunt animals for thier skins, or is it only PvE if an NPC tells you to do so? Is it not PvE if you're out exploring, find a cave, and decide to see were it goes, or if there's anything valuable inside to mine, or does an NPC have to tell you to go there?
You don't have to have an NPC tell you to gather 9 other people and go kill a minotaur, you can do that on your own, and it's still PvE. Having 1000 quests doesn't mean a game has more PvE, it means that there are 1000 quests that have you go and do what you need to do to level your toon.
In MO I start naked. I don't need an NPC to tell me that I need clothing. I get the tools I need, then I go about getting me something to cover my danglies, and from there I just do whatever I want.
No one said anything about Quest hand holding.
Quests or missions in a sandbox game are always optional and they bring a game world to life imo. It's realistic that people need shit done in a game world. Normally these "tasks" are done for currency unlikel XP farming in more linear games.
Also certain features like Raids, dungeons and joinable factions are great in sandbox games as long as there optional.
All of this adds to the game.
When you have a world devoid of Npcs with ffa pvp as its only focus its no longer a mmo but a fps fantasy themed combat game.
I already have access to those, every FPS game with a mod community makes them for free.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
There are mobs in this game already. There are several mobs we not have seen in the game yet but have been seen in pre beta trailers ... as troll, rat humanoids, lizard humanoids, werewolf alike mob ... devs have talked about orcs.
Also read this dev block ... one week old.
www.mortalonline.com/blog/patch-night
the CEO Henrik Nystöm, we will soon see how they create a mob ... so don't worry.
PvE is a core function. As is combat and crafting ( I throw gathering in with crafting ). Those three form a circle and they have to work flawlessly together for the game to be fun.
PvE is a mess atm.
Combat is playable, but is clunky and needs polish to be fun.
Crafting isn't even in the game and is currently a placeholder.
Why aren't they working on the important stuff?
Do players need housing at launch?
Do players need taming at launch?
Do players need guilds at launch?
My big doubt with MO is they just do not place enough emphasis on having the core features fun. They are too busy trying to include a numerous amount of features at realease.
haha the PvE content in MO is currently the biggest fucking joke I've ever seen in my life...even worse then Shadowbane
in fact its an interesting point to note that every single FFA PvP MMO to date has had the shittiest PvE imaginable and if anyone has played Shadowbane they know what I'm talking about
the best PvP MMO I've ever played so far has been EverQuest and surprise surprise it also had some of the best PvE content of any MMO to date
Its been a long time, so perhaps my memory fails me, but I recall rather liking the PVE in Shadowbane. To each their own I suppose.
But your observation is true, and I believe its due to the fact that most FFA PVP games are developeed by small, underfunded Indie dev houses that can't afford to release with a full featured game that includes strong PVP and PVE.
I'm not even sure anyone can truly build such a game, as the two designs tend to cancel each other out and what benefits one (i.e. PVE) hinders the other.
Blizzard's been trying hard for years and even with their money they don't have it right (IMO)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Uh, what game did you play? I've been doing almost nothing but PvE content in Darkfall for the past 4 months.
Darkfall Travelogues!
"Its been a long time, so perhaps my memory fails me, but I recall rather liking the PVE in Shadowbane. To each their own I suppose."
lol what PvE content? I've never seen more retarded AI in a game like Shadowbane until only now with Mortal Online so I can't possibly imagine how you liked it
the PvE content in Shadowbane consisted of making a character that could fly and flying above a camp full of mobs that couldn't hit you while you kill all of them with AE spells
how you could have possibly enjoyed that is beyond me
Aside from the housing and crafting system (which includes localized resources and rarish mobs) it is likely the PvE in MO will lack at launch. They talk about task to do to get some skills and how that is a big part of the skill system, but that isn't in the game yet. If it is added to the game when the final part of the skill system is added then it won't be as shallow. It will be a bit like darkfall's questing system, but instead you'll be forced to do those task to develop your character. What I was hoping for were "randomly" generated "quest" that weren't actually given, but you could still do to shape the world. Very PnP esque, but the community told me to piss off when I brought it up after the PPP. Basically, what the devs could do with their 1 time bosses is have them ransack NPC villages that would grow with the world. You'd hear rumors of towns being plauged by werewolves and how they are in dire straights. If you helped them, the village would talk about you, maybe give you discounts on items and sing your praise, if you didn't the village would become a werewolf haven which would lead to its own little fun rewards. But like I said, the community shot it down. For what reason I have no idea.
To fralic: The majority of people who like PvE content like it becuase it makes them feel epic. They need a reason to kill mobs, it has to have more of a purpose than just getting gold or resouces to prepare for battle or for the next mob. If there isn't a "reason" to farm mobs, the people who enjoy PvE content will get bored. Darkfall and MO's PvE systems, minus the addition of 1 time bosses, will be about the same. It won't be enough for a lot of people, they'll get bored, and quit. Some more people may continue to play MO longer becuase of the crafting system or housing system, but the ones who like Mob hunting and doing it with meaning won't.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Personally speaking only I felt it was not just PVE in darkfall that was lacking but group interactions via abilities and skills for group team work pve or pvp.
I don't know about launch, but DF today has pve and is getting a boost with this next expansion. All I do is is pve cas I'm relatively new and not where I want to be to pvp yet. The monster AI is the best I ever played.
You must not of played long.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I like the werewolf thing.
They could be tough to kill, silver based weapons could deal extra damage to them, and they attack at night.
They could build some lore around such a thing, having them appear during a particular time in Nave.
Once a month for a couple of days they could attack random towns, even player towns.
The dif. in our argument is the "purpose".
Not everyone needs the same purpose, obviously. If I was talking about a group of goblins in an area, I would want to know why they're there. A quest could outline the reason behind them, "the goblins are attacking local merchants, go and get back their goods by killing them." All and good, but,
Who's the center of the story?
Is it the merchants lost items? The players? The goblins?
Are those goblins there to fill a purpose? Yes, obviously, and what is it? They provide a resource, money, items, skill advancement, the crap you need to progress. Does it have to be goblins? No, it could be a frog, a sprite, vicious giant toads. How many people need to do the quest before the goblins leave and the merchants finally get their stuff back?
I would never argue against quests.
It's the corner stone of an RPG.
I will say that I'd rather quest not be there if the quest I'm doing has been done a million times to assist the same NPC that over the course of the last year and a half has yet to be helped. I also don't really see the need for random quest generators. How many NPCs are there going to be in the world? How many times will the same person need assistance with something? I could however see a guy in a small village that from time to time is in need of a particular resource, and employs others to acquire it for him. Perhaps it will gain us favor, perhaps the small town is errecting a shrine to a god, perhaps that god isn't one I approve of, and instead of helping him I decide to raise his little town.
Mobs, like resources, need to be distributed with reason and logic. It's nice to have a group of fantasy creatures standing around for me to kill for ages, which are tied to some quest, that requires me to a specific number of them in a given time.
It's not needed though. And it doesn't add to the RPG sandbox. It becomes redundant and waisted.
I need skins to sell.
Teeth for a spell.
I want to explore that cave in the hopes that I may find some lost treasure, not because the NPC told me I would find the treasure there, but because discovering it is much more exciting.
PvE isn't made by some NPC, it's created in a world that allows for adventure to be discovered. Why are those minotaurs there? Why won't they let me near the cave? What's in there to be discovered? What could i learn by getting past the minotaurs that guard the cave, and exploring it? If there happens to be an item of great value at the end of the cave, I can only hope that I would be able to find someone to tell me what it is. Maybe I can find a clue about who I should go see?