Biggest problem with first person style games such as MO is FPS go with that style of movement and play. Has it's ups and downs sure. But most of them focus more on PvP above PvE. Though I'm sure they will find some way to compensate for the PvE if not then I'm sure people will live with crafting or building houses, whatever this game permits players to do sandbox wise.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Aside from the housing and crafting system (which includes localized resources and rare mobs) it is likely the PvP in MO will lack at launch. They talk about task to do to get some skills and how that is a big part of the skill system, but that isn't in the game yet. If it is added to the game when the final part of the skill system is added then it won't be as shallow. It will be a bit like darkfall questing system, but instead you'll be forced to do those task to develop your character. What I was hoping for were "randomly" generated "quest" that weren't actually given, but you could still do to shape the world. Very PnP esque, but the community told me to piss off when I brought it up after the PPP. Basically, what the device could do with their 1 time bosses is have them ransack NPC villages that would grow with the world. You'd hear rumors of towns being plagued by werewolves and how they are in dire straights. If you helped them, the village would talk about you, maybe give you discounts on items and sing your praise, if you didn't the village would become a werewolf haven which would lead to its own little fun rewards. But like I said, the community shot it down. For what reason I have no idea. To fariic: The majority of people who like PvE content like it because it makes them feel epic. They need a reason to kill mobs, it has to have more of a purpose than just getting gold or resources to prepare for battle or for the next mob. If there isn't a "reason" to farm mobs, the people who enjoy PvE content will get bored. Darkfall and MO's PvE systems, minus the addition of 1 time bosses, will be about the same. It won't be enough for a lot of people, they'll get bored, and quit. Some more people may continue to play MO longer because of the crafting system or housing system, but the ones who like Mob hunting and doing it with meaning won't.
Mobs, like resources, need to be distributed with reason and logic. It's nice to have a group of fantasy creatures standing around for me to kill for ages, which are tied to some quest, that requires me to a specific number of them in a given time.
It's not needed though. And it doesn't add to the RPG sandbox. It becomes redundant and waisted.
I need skins to sell.
Teeth for a spell.
I want to explore that cave in the hopes that I may find some lost treasure, not because the NPC told me I would find the treasure there, but because discovering it is much more exciting.
PvE isn't made by some NPC, it's created in a world that allows for adventure to be discovered. Why are those minotaurs there? Why won't they let me near the cave? What's in there to be discovered? What could i learn by getting past the minotaurs that guard the cave, and exploring it? If there happens to be an item of great value at the end of the cave, I can only hope that I would be able to find someone to tell me what it is. Maybe I can find a clue about who I should go see?
I don't think those exploration for uber items will be in the game. But all the stuff you say boils down to 1 thing, kill mobs to get stuff. Theres no real purpose behind it once you have a bank full of stuff. People will get bored. Its exactly why people got bored of PvE in darkfall and said it needs more PvE. Guess what, they'll say the same thing about MO (minus the people who like housing).
pve is gonna be more UO style then wow style. No quests. But they do have a lot of interesting things planned. Wait and see i would guess
well when I think pve in a sandbox game I usually expect optional Random missions, Roaming rare mobs and non-instanced dungeons/raids.
Maybe a few optional factions in game to align with.
All standard shit in a sandbox game imo.
apart from sandbox, WoW had its share of rare/rare elite mobs with their stories, Wow also has optional factions to align with, for example the centaurs in Desolace, optional, the P.E.T.A. in northrend, optional. WoW isn't really 100% sandbox, but it isn't a complete themepark either...
Wow isn't a themepark? LOL ...give me one good sandbox feature WoW has...
Mobs, like resources, need to be distributed with reason and logic. It's nice to have a group of fantasy creatures standing around for me to kill for ages, which are tied to some quest, that requires me to a specific number of them in a given time.
It's not needed though. And it doesn't add to the RPG sandbox. It becomes redundant and waisted. I need skins to sell.
Teeth for a spell.
I want to explore that cave in the hopes that I may find some lost treasure, not because the NPC told me I would find the treasure there, but because discovering it is much more exciting.
PvE isn't made by some NPC, it's created in a world that allows for adventure to be discovered. Why are those minotaurs there? Why won't they let me near the cave? What's in there to be discovered? What could i learn by getting past the minotaurs that guard the cave, and exploring it? If there happens to be an item of great value at the end of the cave, I can only hope that I would be able to find someone to tell me what it is. Maybe I can find a clue about who I should go see?
I don't think those exploration for uber items will be in the game. But all the stuff you say boils down to 1 thing, kill mobs to get stuff. Theres no real purpose behind it once you have a bank full of stuff. People will get bored. Its exactly why people got bored of PvE in darkfall and said it needs more PvE. Guess what, they'll say the same thing about MO (minus the people who like housing).
Consider.
You just summed up MMO's.
You kill stuff to get things to fill your storage with. Not everyone is going to enjoy the same method of delivering PvE.
Some people enjoy lots of quests, while other want a world to discover and explore.
I have hopes this game will succeed at both active PvP and "passive PvE," which it seems is the goal of the MO devs. Only time will tell (looking forward to reading the posts in a few days after tomorrow's patch comes out). My only concern with MO and full-PvP is the threat of groups of PCs just continuoulsly ganking other PCs. You see it commonly in a variety of titles, and I'm not whining about it; I accept an MMO can be a hostile environment (love AoC PvP). I just wonder how well the "no levels" concept for MO does at mitigating that problem? Additionally, how do those of you who have played the beta ( I obviously have not) feel the current flagging system supports/hinders that aspect? Does it do anything to discourage ganking or is that just another hazard to avoid in MO like many other games? Thanks . . .
I have hopes this game will succeed at both active PvP and "passive PvE," which it seems is the goal of the MO devs. Only time will tell (looking forward to reading the posts in a few days after tomorrow's patch comes out). My only concern with MO and full-PvP is the threat of groups of PCs just continuoulsly ganking other PCs. You see it commonly in a variety of titles, and I'm not whining about it; I accept an MMO can be a hostile environment (love AoC PvP). I just wonder how well the "no levels" concept for MO does at mitigating that problem? Additionally, how do those of you who have played the beta ( I obviously have not) feel the current flagging system supports/hinders that aspect? Does it do anything to discourage ganking or is that just another hazard to avoid in MO like many other games? Thanks . . .
They havent added the full flagging system in yet. So far we only have red, gray and blue flags. Also since they have been doing wipes its hard to tell what the long-term effects of the flagging will be. Right now people have no reason to stay blue, and even still its not a gankfest. Once the full flagging system is implemented we will see how it pans out.
They are going to have statloss for red players, but have not added it in yet. Basically IF you are red and IF you die you will loose 10% of your primary skills. So a good pvper who chooses to be red will have a risk/reward playstyle and all of the wannabe pkers will cry buckets of tears or pursue a different playstyle. Overall this will mean less random pkers but you will have to deal with good pkers.
Having "no levels" means that you are more cautious with who you attack. You dont know if the next guy is a newbie with armor or a veteran swordsman. This also adds a risk factor for both parties. it ends up with less people attacking just cause and more people guaging the situation before they attack. In games Like AoC you can attack without reason cause your 10+ levels is a guranteed win or your class is imba.
Either way you put it there will be groups of gankers roaming about killing just to kill.
About the "Passive PVE" I agree, Mo wont have wow-like pve. They already stated that they wont have an endless ammount of quests and that they are going to approach pve from a different perspective. We are still waiting to see how they are going to implement pve for people who are less interested in the pvp aspects fo the game.
Thanks for the info. . . and for answering my questions on the other threads. I don't have the time to get into MO right now, but (based largely on what I've been reading here over the past several months) I imagine I'll get the game after the new year. I really hope this one turns out the way it's described, the way the devs envisioned it.
Thanks for the info. . . and for answering my questions on the other threads. I don't have the time to get into MO right now, but (based largely on what I've been reading here over the past several months) I imagine I'll get the game after the new year. I really hope this one turns out the way it's described, the way the devs envisioned it.
If you want to play a polished game from day 1 I would say wait it out. When open beta comes around try to get in and test drive it, then wait until release or even a few months after to buy it. Either way you should try to get into a clan if you intend on playing, you will be much better off once you finally start.
I see alot of people raging on these and other forums because they diddnt take the advice that the Mortal Devs gave them before purchasing.
I'd imagine that smaller companies like Starvault would benefit from creating strong tools for player-driven content rather than trying to pursue jack-of-all-trade road by investing time and money on virtually every aspect of currently available MMOs. As of late, there have been numerous examples of companies giving diverse mission tools for players, which have been proven efficient. If some player wants then to create a mission for others to deliver 10 parcels of randomness to her and is willing to pay the price mentioned, that's her very own choice. Even with 10,000 players you have thousand times more quest developers than even the bigger dogs in the business.
For player-driven content to actually emerge, there has to be some rudimentary lore and rule-sets that outline what can be created and can be accepted. On Mortal Online's case these missions would most likely be unique to the present distribution of mobs and NPCs in the game world, but even then there would be countless options for good player-versus-environment content if the community so decides. Say, a member of mage's guild wants to see his gruesome master slain in order to gain personal power in the guild (frankly, don't know how these guilds work, just a scheme). If you then find someone to perform the task for you, I'd say that it will constitute a PVE-experience just as well as killing ten boars will. These tasks outlined by players themselves would further enhance the originally rudimentary lore developed by the game-designers.
Hence, for an independent game studio to create content en masse for a sandbox title, they need to create tools rather than content per se. I think this was the main gripe of Darkfall at start -- the lack of meaningful content-creating tools. As the game-world's lore evolves the designers can eventually create more bricks with which to play. For example, never really understood why sandbox games won't go with the idea Lego Universe is trying to with their building blocks idea: Have a number of available building blocks and a set of physics rules that everything created must obey and, voila, you have thousands of designers overnight. Certainly, most of the created buildings are likely pretty lousy but, then again, the best created could be further sold by their creators to their fellow players. Instead of five tiers of housing, you would have endless tiers of housing although the model-house-one might in the end be the most popular. Tools and rules, dear designers, tools and rules.
If you want to play a polished game from day 1 I would say wait it out. When open beta comes around try to get in and test drive it, then wait until release or even a few months after to buy it. Either way you should try to get into a clan if you intend on playing, you will be much better off once you finally start. I see alot of people raging on these and other forums because they diddnt take the advice that the Mortal Devs gave them before purchasing.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. As I said, I just don't have the time now, o/w I would jump in eagerly and help with the beta.
I've played enough mmo's to know "release" really never equals "polished." Hell, some games still aren't polished six months to a year after their release. But, like you said, if you appreciate that fact and know/accept what you're buying in a beta (or very early release) you start out with some healthy expectation-management. Hey, if the game is fun, who cares right, as long as the devs continue to push patches and improve the product? I, for one, am good with that.
Too many people enter a beta expecting a complete game, feel disenfranchised, and then rant endlessly on forums about its flaws. Unfortunately, this can drive off the interest of people who don't recognize trolls for what they are. The same is even more true for small devs like Star Vault who try new things, despite lacking the millions of $$ to pour into things like deep, deliberate (and often repetative/boring) PvE.
Hey, the devs on MO clearly stated early-on this would be a "niche" game, which is what peaked my interest initially. I think it would do many people who read these threads to remember that fact.
In regards to pve in MO - all materials comes from PVE, unless you are stealing a player's gear, which ultimately came from pve too.
Of course bashing on rocks and trees is not usually considered much of pve, but there's also bashing on animals for their parts, to use to make gear. There will also be lootable skills and recipes and misc, off npcs.
It's like eve, where the pve feeds the pvp which feeds the pve, etc.
Plus they will probably throw in treasure maps and random mission npcs and random spawn encounters and stuff
Not attacking you, but i was reading the official forums and they seem to disagree. From what ive read, as of right now beside some mobs and the usual gathering only the minotaur is any good pve. Seems like the game is way too unfinished that what i had expected.
They got several different mobs in this game already, but they will soon add many more mobs. Right now I agree that they need to add some more different mobs. But they have been reworking the AI a bit and it will be finish soon, if not already done, I hope. When that is done we will see many more different mobs in the game.
As a proof on what I am saying ... that there are more to come, just check prebeta videos ... trolls, lizard humanoids, werewolf alike mobs, rat humanoids and devs have talked about orcs and added a bandit camp ... there are spider webs in a cave so expect spiders ... and most likely many more mobs that we havn't seen or heard of yet.
Originally posted by Thenarius But Planetside was never a MMORPG.
Mortal Online wants itself as a true MMORPG, so there should be some PvE out there even if just to explain some stuff. Even Darkfall devs admit their mistakes and are starting to add more PvE features to their game.
Yeah it would even be better to have no PvE whatsoever than a few bad mobs. Either you do it good or not at all, bad PvE just annoys people. DF needs to totally revamp the PvE part but hopefully is MO doing a good job from start.
Not attacking you, but i was reading the official forums and they seem to disagree. From what ive read, as of right now beside some mobs and the usual gathering only the minotaur is any good pve. Seems like the game is way too unfinished that what i had expected.
im sorry i should have stated that different, they will have plenty, as of now your right theres not much.
Comments
Biggest problem with first person style games such as MO is FPS go with that style of movement and play. Has it's ups and downs sure. But most of them focus more on PvP above PvE. Though I'm sure they will find some way to compensate for the PvE if not then I'm sure people will live with crafting or building houses, whatever this game permits players to do sandbox wise.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Mobs, like resources, need to be distributed with reason and logic. It's nice to have a group of fantasy creatures standing around for me to kill for ages, which are tied to some quest, that requires me to a specific number of them in a given time.
It's not needed though. And it doesn't add to the RPG sandbox. It becomes redundant and waisted.
I need skins to sell.
Teeth for a spell.
I want to explore that cave in the hopes that I may find some lost treasure, not because the NPC told me I would find the treasure there, but because discovering it is much more exciting.
PvE isn't made by some NPC, it's created in a world that allows for adventure to be discovered. Why are those minotaurs there? Why won't they let me near the cave? What's in there to be discovered? What could i learn by getting past the minotaurs that guard the cave, and exploring it? If there happens to be an item of great value at the end of the cave, I can only hope that I would be able to find someone to tell me what it is. Maybe I can find a clue about who I should go see?
I don't think those exploration for uber items will be in the game. But all the stuff you say boils down to 1 thing, kill mobs to get stuff. Theres no real purpose behind it once you have a bank full of stuff. People will get bored. Its exactly why people got bored of PvE in darkfall and said it needs more PvE. Guess what, they'll say the same thing about MO (minus the people who like housing).
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
well when I think pve in a sandbox game I usually expect optional Random missions, Roaming rare mobs and non-instanced dungeons/raids.
Maybe a few optional factions in game to align with.
All standard shit in a sandbox game imo.
apart from sandbox, WoW had its share of rare/rare elite mobs with their stories, Wow also has optional factions to align with, for example the centaurs in Desolace, optional, the P.E.T.A. in northrend, optional. WoW isn't really 100% sandbox, but it isn't a complete themepark either...
Wow isn't a themepark? LOL ...give me one good sandbox feature WoW has...
I don't think those exploration for uber items will be in the game. But all the stuff you say boils down to 1 thing, kill mobs to get stuff. Theres no real purpose behind it once you have a bank full of stuff. People will get bored. Its exactly why people got bored of PvE in darkfall and said it needs more PvE. Guess what, they'll say the same thing about MO (minus the people who like housing).
Consider.
You just summed up MMO's.
You kill stuff to get things to fill your storage with. Not everyone is going to enjoy the same method of delivering PvE.
Some people enjoy lots of quests, while other want a world to discover and explore.
There isn't much to explore in MO.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I have hopes this game will succeed at both active PvP and "passive PvE," which it seems is the goal of the MO devs. Only time will tell (looking forward to reading the posts in a few days after tomorrow's patch comes out). My only concern with MO and full-PvP is the threat of groups of PCs just continuoulsly ganking other PCs. You see it commonly in a variety of titles, and I'm not whining about it; I accept an MMO can be a hostile environment (love AoC PvP). I just wonder how well the "no levels" concept for MO does at mitigating that problem? Additionally, how do those of you who have played the beta ( I obviously have not) feel the current flagging system supports/hinders that aspect? Does it do anything to discourage ganking or is that just another hazard to avoid in MO like many other games? Thanks . . .
They havent added the full flagging system in yet. So far we only have red, gray and blue flags. Also since they have been doing wipes its hard to tell what the long-term effects of the flagging will be. Right now people have no reason to stay blue, and even still its not a gankfest. Once the full flagging system is implemented we will see how it pans out.
They are going to have statloss for red players, but have not added it in yet. Basically IF you are red and IF you die you will loose 10% of your primary skills. So a good pvper who chooses to be red will have a risk/reward playstyle and all of the wannabe pkers will cry buckets of tears or pursue a different playstyle. Overall this will mean less random pkers but you will have to deal with good pkers.
Having "no levels" means that you are more cautious with who you attack. You dont know if the next guy is a newbie with armor or a veteran swordsman. This also adds a risk factor for both parties. it ends up with less people attacking just cause and more people guaging the situation before they attack. In games Like AoC you can attack without reason cause your 10+ levels is a guranteed win or your class is imba.
Either way you put it there will be groups of gankers roaming about killing just to kill.
About the "Passive PVE" I agree, Mo wont have wow-like pve. They already stated that they wont have an endless ammount of quests and that they are going to approach pve from a different perspective. We are still waiting to see how they are going to implement pve for people who are less interested in the pvp aspects fo the game.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
Thanks for the info. . . and for answering my questions on the other threads. I don't have the time to get into MO right now, but (based largely on what I've been reading here over the past several months) I imagine I'll get the game after the new year. I really hope this one turns out the way it's described, the way the devs envisioned it.
If you want to play a polished game from day 1 I would say wait it out. When open beta comes around try to get in and test drive it, then wait until release or even a few months after to buy it. Either way you should try to get into a clan if you intend on playing, you will be much better off once you finally start.
I see alot of people raging on these and other forums because they diddnt take the advice that the Mortal Devs gave them before purchasing.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
I'd imagine that smaller companies like Starvault would benefit from creating strong tools for player-driven content rather than trying to pursue jack-of-all-trade road by investing time and money on virtually every aspect of currently available MMOs. As of late, there have been numerous examples of companies giving diverse mission tools for players, which have been proven efficient. If some player wants then to create a mission for others to deliver 10 parcels of randomness to her and is willing to pay the price mentioned, that's her very own choice. Even with 10,000 players you have thousand times more quest developers than even the bigger dogs in the business.
For player-driven content to actually emerge, there has to be some rudimentary lore and rule-sets that outline what can be created and can be accepted. On Mortal Online's case these missions would most likely be unique to the present distribution of mobs and NPCs in the game world, but even then there would be countless options for good player-versus-environment content if the community so decides. Say, a member of mage's guild wants to see his gruesome master slain in order to gain personal power in the guild (frankly, don't know how these guilds work, just a scheme). If you then find someone to perform the task for you, I'd say that it will constitute a PVE-experience just as well as killing ten boars will. These tasks outlined by players themselves would further enhance the originally rudimentary lore developed by the game-designers.
Hence, for an independent game studio to create content en masse for a sandbox title, they need to create tools rather than content per se. I think this was the main gripe of Darkfall at start -- the lack of meaningful content-creating tools. As the game-world's lore evolves the designers can eventually create more bricks with which to play. For example, never really understood why sandbox games won't go with the idea Lego Universe is trying to with their building blocks idea: Have a number of available building blocks and a set of physics rules that everything created must obey and, voila, you have thousands of designers overnight. Certainly, most of the created buildings are likely pretty lousy but, then again, the best created could be further sold by their creators to their fellow players. Instead of five tiers of housing, you would have endless tiers of housing although the model-house-one might in the end be the most popular. Tools and rules, dear designers, tools and rules.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. As I said, I just don't have the time now, o/w I would jump in eagerly and help with the beta.
I've played enough mmo's to know "release" really never equals "polished." Hell, some games still aren't polished six months to a year after their release. But, like you said, if you appreciate that fact and know/accept what you're buying in a beta (or very early release) you start out with some healthy expectation-management. Hey, if the game is fun, who cares right, as long as the devs continue to push patches and improve the product? I, for one, am good with that.
Too many people enter a beta expecting a complete game, feel disenfranchised, and then rant endlessly on forums about its flaws. Unfortunately, this can drive off the interest of people who don't recognize trolls for what they are. The same is even more true for small devs like Star Vault who try new things, despite lacking the millions of $$ to pour into things like deep, deliberate (and often repetative/boring) PvE.
Hey, the devs on MO clearly stated early-on this would be a "niche" game, which is what peaked my interest initially. I think it would do many people who read these threads to remember that fact.
In regards to pve in MO - all materials comes from PVE, unless you are stealing a player's gear, which ultimately came from pve too.
Of course bashing on rocks and trees is not usually considered much of pve, but there's also bashing on animals for their parts, to use to make gear. There will also be lootable skills and recipes and misc, off npcs.
It's like eve, where the pve feeds the pvp which feeds the pve, etc.
Plus they will probably throw in treasure maps and random mission npcs and random spawn encounters and stuff
they have plenty of PvE content
Not attacking you, but i was reading the official forums and they seem to disagree. From what ive read, as of right now beside some mobs and the usual gathering only the minotaur is any good pve. Seems like the game is way too unfinished that what i had expected.
They got several different mobs in this game already, but they will soon add many more mobs. Right now I agree that they need to add some more different mobs. But they have been reworking the AI a bit and it will be finish soon, if not already done, I hope. When that is done we will see many more different mobs in the game.
As a proof on what I am saying ... that there are more to come, just check prebeta videos ... trolls, lizard humanoids, werewolf alike mobs, rat humanoids and devs have talked about orcs and added a bandit camp ... there are spider webs in a cave so expect spiders ... and most likely many more mobs that we havn't seen or heard of yet.
So don't worry, MO wont be PvP-only but also PvE.
Yeah it would even be better to have no PvE whatsoever than a few bad mobs. Either you do it good or not at all, bad PvE just annoys people. DF needs to totally revamp the PvE part but hopefully is MO doing a good job from start.
Not attacking you, but i was reading the official forums and they seem to disagree. From what ive read, as of right now beside some mobs and the usual gathering only the minotaur is any good pve. Seems like the game is way too unfinished that what i had expected.
im sorry i should have stated that different, they will have plenty, as of now your right theres not much.