I 've found the world of Lotro to be quite unrestrictive tbh, and I actually dont remember ever bumping into an invisible wall either. I bumped into mountain-sides, and huge rocks, just the usual "natural walls".
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I 've found the world of Lotro to be quite unrestrictive tbh, and I actually dont remember ever bumping into an invisible wall either. I bumped into mountain-sides, and huge rocks, just the usual "natural walls".
SignusM has never played LOTRO, or else he would realize while it may be a theme park at its core, its more sandbox than any other theme park.
Of course, those two terms have little use outside of forums. That, and he would not make completely off the wall comments like that.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
"Middle-Earth Online will attempt to bring true role-playing aspects to the world of massively multiplayer games--a world that, as he suggested, seems more focused on creating large fields of monsters to hunt rather than allowing players the freedom to play as epic heroes and villains"
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
You'd think he'd pick up on that, given the big "Turbine" logo at the beginning...
"Middle-Earth Online will attempt to bring true role-playing aspects to the world of massively multiplayer games--a world that, as he suggested, seems more focused on creating large fields of monsters to hunt rather than allowing players the freedom to play as epic heroes and villains"
Oh, what could have been...
This is why you like darkfall. You believe every bit of marketing that includes your favorite buzzwords. They do not need to deliver on it in anyway shape or form. Just say it.
There WAS no MEO, it was a piece of paper, nothing more.
I have a bridge for sale that is seamless, has open PvP and full looting, will bring Role playing back to RPG's, with have the most epic endgame, and will feature the most dynamic world ever!
Interested? I love empty bullet point words words too!
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Actually, I liked the instanced housing, where they divided the players into neighbourhoods. It sure beats an endless expanse of land littered with slums. Now, keep in mind I never experienced non instanced housing, so that may be wrong, but thats how I envision it to be. Neighbourhoods are more private and if the circumstances are right, you can mail your neighbours and gather at the town center and have parties. good stuff.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Middle Earth Online was never intended to have PvP, but it was going to have moral corruption choices. Also MEO was set in the same time as LotRO, just designed so that you were always a step behind the Fellowship. Just to clarify, LotARO and MEO are the exact same game, just LotRO is the NGE version of MEO
A game change pre-alpha does not a NGE make. Stop saying that. It is retarded. The games design, from the very onset was a work of fiction that would never work. The game was simply not able to be produced.
You are confusing Sierra MEO with Turbine MEO. Sierra MMO was a pipe dream of the 90s that never reached a public state. The MEO we are all talking about in this thread was heavily advertised, played by many, demonstrated, and I personally was in the alpha testing for. It existed, it was changed literally with a few months before launch, to LotRO. The devs went from "Middle-Earth Online will attempt to bring true role-playing aspects to the world of massively multiplayer games--a world that, as he suggested, seems more focused on creating large fields of monsters to hunt rather than allowing players the freedom to play as epic heroes and villains" to a hack and slash instanced linear game, because WoW sold well.
Still going to try to argue with people who know a ton more on the subject than you do? Figures you were a vapor troll turned regular troll.
"Middle-Earth Online will attempt to bring true role-playing aspects to the world of massively multiplayer games--a world that, as he suggested, seems more focused on creating large fields of monsters to hunt rather than allowing players the freedom to play as epic heroes and villains"
Oh, what could have been...
This is why you like darkfall. You believe every bit of marketing that includes your favorite buzzwords. They do not need to deliver on it in anyway shape or form. Just say it.
There WAS no MEO, it was a piece of paper, nothing more.
I have a bridge for sale that is seamless, has open PvP and full looting, will bring Role playing back to RPG's, with have the most epic endgame, and will feature the most dynamic world ever!
Interested? I love empty bullet point words words too!
Sorry but your wrong, this MEO was still Turbine, look at the article. It was more than a peice of paper, your just confusing the development by the two different companies. Seirras ideas and Turbines Original ideas were very similar. But over time Turbine started changing everything. Again that gameplay video, which even you mention was by Turbine, had the heroes and villians system shown in it.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Lots of things from the paper that is MEO is in LOTRO, however, NOTHING of MEO came to light until turbine made it so. True, they used some of the models and assets from sierra (as you see in that vid) that all had to be replaced due to errors, and just down right bad for 3D work.
What you called degenerated, other sane people call Evolved and was saved by.
Permadeath... REALLY? Yeah. k. The game was simply a bad design. Technically, and from a design standpoint. Hence, why it was stopped, and handed over lock stock and barrel to one of the most experienced MMO developers to this day, and at that time.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
You guys keep saying "true reole-playing aspects" as if its supposed to mean anything. I read the OP and all I got was that MEO was completely different than Lotro, except the only difference mentioned was instancing. how is no instancing a true role-play aspect? Also, from those videos, all I see is early lotro footage, with characters fighting and running around.
Can anyone elaborate on what exactly changed from MEO to Lotro?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Truth is, Turbine did as good as they can do. They are just not a great development company. I don't know anyone that isn't a die hard fan that can say AC, AC2, DDO, and LOTRO are anything but "ok" games.
One big clue is the fact that they could NOT figure out a way to make the combat "fun" and the classes unique (in Turbine's own opinion) without having big flashy particle effects, even though they have absolutely no place in the world. I think AoC showed that combat can be fun without the NEED to have flashy particle effects.
Yes, I know AoC has particle effects, but what I'm saying is that they aren't needed for the combat to be entertaining. The animations are enough to make the combat fun. Also AoC's atmosphere and world design does a much better job portraying what I would picture a Middle-Earth-esque time than LOTRO's cartoony portrayal.
Just FYI: I don't play AoC and haven't since it was first released. But I did like the combat and the world design. The bad PvP just killed the game for me, though.
The LOTRO license needs to be given to a company that can actually do something with it. I'd like to see what Blizzard or Bioware could do with it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Lots of things from the paper that is MEO is in LOTRO, however, NOTHING of MEO came to light until turbine made it so. True, they used some of the models and assets from sierra (as you see in that vid) that all had to be replaced due to errors, and just down right bad for 3D work.
What you called degenerated, other sane people call Evolved and was saved by.
Permadeath... REALLY? Yeah. k. The game was simply a bad design. Technically, and from a design standpoint. Hence, why it was stopped, and handed over lock stock and barrel to one of the most experienced MMO developers to this day, and at that time.
Oh you are a very VERY confused individual, see above post and recant, or just vanish from the thread.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Lots of things from the paper that is MEO is in LOTRO, however, NOTHING of MEO came to light until turbine made it so. True, they used some of the models and assets from sierra (as you see in that vid) that all had to be replaced due to errors, and just down right bad for 3D work.
What you called degenerated, other sane people call Evolved and was saved by.
Permadeath... REALLY? Yeah. k. The game was simply a bad design. Technically, and from a design standpoint. Hence, why it was stopped, and handed over lock stock and barrel to one of the most experienced MMO developers to this day, and at that time.
You continue to bring up things that had nothing to do with the MEO we are talking about. Never once do I remember permadeath in MEO. At this point your just trolling, I dont see how you can say "Less classes, and a more limited PVP system" as "Evolved".
One int he same. When sierra was unable to deliver, the IP and all assets were given to turbine, hence why early LOTRO (Turbine MEO) looked like MEO (Sierra), even feature wise, however Turbine eventually realized just how deeply flawed the ideas were.
And the mmo world was better for it.
You guys may wish to read the link I posted.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
"Anyone still hoping for the real "Middle Earth Online" to start development?"
Nope, not even in the slightest.
I dunno... permadeath, your toon automatically running away from higher level mobs, and being captured by orcs and unable to play til your friends rescue you doesn't appeal at all?
It's interesting to see a bit of the inspiration for the dread mechanic, though.
Here's a link to that video. I found it on Youtube.
a lot of that looked exactly llike LotrO, except for Lotro has way way better graphics .
That would be because after sierras design failed, Turbine picked up the development of it.
MEO was never going to be anything but a pipe dream the original design was a joke, it had so many issues and conflicts i was not even funny.
It was also in the hands of a development house that had a HARD time transitioning from 2d (That they did masterfully) to 3D. Just look at the renders (Because MEO NEVER had any in game graphics, only renders). Its like bad scan-line renders of the 90's, hell, it WAS the 90's. Letalone make one of the first MMO's, not going to happen.
You do not have to take my word for it. That project was doomed to fail, and eventialy became just a project to meet milestones. It was never going to see the light of day.
Anyone who thinks it would have been a great game A) Was not around when it was in development Has no development experience at all C) Has a giant pair of rose colored glasses D) Bought into the Serra hype that was for no one other than the investors.
You got taken for a ride with your nostalgia.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
The point of this thread isnt to say "Hey guys, lets rez the failed MEO", its to get people aware of the old MEO, so that a new one can come out of the woodwork, a real "Middle Earth Online". The fact is, I have this bit of hope that we may some day still see a new MMO based in the world of Middle Earth, and with that, I open discussion to see what people think of the old MEO, and what could be with the new one.
Well, that was a very good article (thanks Mr. Bloodworth) and it certainly shed light on many things.
I'm not sure if I would have liked MEO, at least from what I've read about it. However, though I like most of LOTRO there are many things that just make me roll my eyes.
I don't like the avatars. Or Rune Keeprs for that matter.
I don't like (though did enjoy for what it was worth) how they did moria and that they jumped ahead in time and made it a mini, yet dangerous, city.
I don't like the "gamey" attributes like handing in coins for new equipment. Oh, I think it's a great system as it gives players a way to pick and choose rewards but I would have found it funny if after the characters left moria, they each noticed a small coin in their hands only to have Frodo turn to Aragorn and ask "what's this"?
But then again, for what it's worth, I think I was hoping for a more "world" feeling and a world that really made me feel like I was in middle earth. I have only ever gotten that in a few instances. One of them being the time I tried out the hobbit starter instance and saw the nazgul.
But running through Bree and looking around, it just doesn't feel right.
I've thought long and hard about what I would do differently and I almost think that the game works quite well but not really as the world of middle earth.
Oh sure, I've had some holy cow moments such as riding through a blizzard at night and looking into the murky distance to see the faint lights of the gobline fires. Or the original old forest that was not only difficult to navigate (in a good way) but also dangerous.
Part of it is that it's just difficult to translate a book into a world. Especially one with a story. I almost wonder if it would work better as a morpg and not a mmorpg. Or to be more clear "multiplayer online role playing game" as opposed to "massive".
So that players can team up in hub areas and then move about the world as a fellowhship experiencing the places like bree or the shire in more of a pure way.
All I know is that for my tastes, as good as the game is (and it is good) it doesn't convey a true sense of middle earth to me and I find it hard to swallow bree or moria as social hubs. Or even lothlorien for that matter.
in some ways it truly is a theme park. Not using that word as a judgment but rather as an observation.
At Disney world you have tomorrow land and frontiere land and Fantasy land. In LOTRO you have Bree and Moria and Lothlorien and Lone Lands, etc. Everyone running about enjoying themselves on whatever ride they happen to be on or on their way to trying.
And again that's a tough one as creating a world from a book and one that is required to immerse players into a story is no small task. It is a razor's edge of a happy medium but one that I find difficult to navigate at times. Especially when I log into Vanguard and feel that I'm part of a huge world to explore (game play aside) and one where I am constantly making discoveries.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Even if LotRO is no sandbox (and I prefer to play sandbox) I seriously would give it a chance, if they integrated PvP into the game. Without PvP or PvP limited to monsters vs players there is nothing LotRO could offer me (except for brilliant Dirext X 10 graphics). Dunno, why PvP was not an option. Maybe some reasons due to the licence. Perhaps they couldnt "sell" the Tolkien heirs the ideas of roaming hobbits murdering around in the shire.
Conventional PvP was never considered an option by Turbine because they knew that the game depended for success on the 90% of their potential customers who would be attracted by the lore of Tolkien rather than the 10% who would be attracted by the thought of griefing hobbits in the Shire. It's really as simple as that.
Not all games are suitable for PvP, nor is there any reason why they should be, just as not all games are centred around PvE. This is one game that wasn't remotely suitable for conventional PvP although Turbine have done well in my view to introduce a limited version of it with monster play that enables at least some PvP'ers to be comfortable with the game whilst not impacting on everyone else.
One int he same. When sierra was unable to deliver, the IP and all assets were given to turbine, hence why early LOTRO (Turbine MEO) looked like MEO (Sierra), even feature wise, however Turbine eventually realized just how deeply flawed the ideas were.
And the mmo world was better for it.
You guys may wish to read the link I posted.
You are very clearly just trolling right now. Please leave. Almost nothing at all remained of the Sierra ideas when Turbine took over the project. There was a 3-4 year gap where there was no development. Turbine's MEO was made from scratch using their Asheron's Call 2 engine. Nice try though, but I live right next to Turbine's HQ, and I met with the MEO devs back in 2003,04and 05. I know my stuff about this game. We are talking about the Middle Earth Online that Turbine advertised and developed and tested for years, before swiftly changing the gameplay features to reflect that of WoW. Get with the program please.
Turbine did a great job with LoTRO. It's a game with lots of quality and great storytelling.
Why would ayone do another LoTR MMO?
Unlike Warhammer lore for example, wich was completed left out by Cryptic, Turbine really honored Tolkien's work and made a very good game. Wich will be around for yet alot of time.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Actually, I liked the instanced housing, where they divided the players into neighbourhoods. It sure beats an endless expanse of land littered with slums. Now, keep in mind I never experienced non instanced housing, so that may be wrong, but thats how I envision it to be. Neighbourhoods are more private and if the circumstances are right, you can mail your neighbours and gather at the town center and have parties. good stuff.
SWG was non-instanced housing, and while it was pretty cool, I don't see where instancing would make it less cool. It wasn't like anybody could tell your house from anyone elses. Just another player "city" with 2-3 different house designs all laid out in a row.
Folks dwelling on it seem to me to be so wrapped up in their narcissism that they actually think strangers care to see how they decorated their house.
To go out on a limb. I believe people think that this IP is capable of sooooo much more when considering an mmo.
That's not to say LOTRO is bad. Crap I've subbed 3 times.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Turbine did a great job with LoTRO. It's a game with lots of quality and great storytelling. Why would ayone do another LoTR MMO? Unlike Warhammer lore for example, wich was completed left out by Cryptic, Turbine really honored Tolkien's work and made a very good game. Wich will be around for yet alot of time.
First off, Cryptic did not develop Warhammer, but im sure thats just an honest mistake. Secondly I would have told you that was somewhat correct a couple years ago (I still didnt totally agree with lorekeepers back then), but Rune-Keepers have kept me clear of the games "Sticking to the Lore" idea for some time now. Its obvious that Turbine was running low on ideas and had to start bending if not fully breaking the rules.
Originally posted by SignusM There was a 3-4 year gap where there was no development. Turbine's MEO was made from scratch using their Asheron's Call 2 engine.
You are correct, the Tolkien foundation after being burned on there keystone IP took quite a while to pass it on. Also, an engine does not a game make, the game layer does. So that was irrelevant to bring up.
Point being, Sierras vision, nor Turbines vision that came from it, was a good design. Hence. We have the successful LOTRO we have today. Your personal grumps do not counter this.
Considering that AC2 pretty much defined the modern MMO (Its downfall was due to not being a true sequial to AC1), and is part of the basis for Wow, you imply that LOTRO was an attempt to copy Wow, is like saying Turbine cloned itself.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Comments
I 've found the world of Lotro to be quite unrestrictive tbh, and I actually dont remember ever bumping into an invisible wall either. I bumped into mountain-sides, and huge rocks, just the usual "natural walls".
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
SignusM has never played LOTRO, or else he would realize while it may be a theme park at its core, its more sandbox than any other theme park.
Of course, those two terms have little use outside of forums. That, and he would not make completely off the wall comments like that.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
"Middle-Earth Online will attempt to bring true role-playing aspects to the world of massively multiplayer games--a world that, as he suggested, seems more focused on creating large fields of monsters to hunt rather than allowing players the freedom to play as epic heroes and villains"
Oh, what could have been...
Darkfall Travelogues!
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
You'd think he'd pick up on that, given the big "Turbine" logo at the beginning...
This is why you like darkfall. You believe every bit of marketing that includes your favorite buzzwords. They do not need to deliver on it in anyway shape or form. Just say it.
There WAS no MEO, it was a piece of paper, nothing more.
I have a bridge for sale that is seamless, has open PvP and full looting, will bring Role playing back to RPG's, with have the most epic endgame, and will feature the most dynamic world ever!
Interested? I love empty bullet point words words too!
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Actually, I liked the instanced housing, where they divided the players into neighbourhoods. It sure beats an endless expanse of land littered with slums. Now, keep in mind I never experienced non instanced housing, so that may be wrong, but thats how I envision it to be. Neighbourhoods are more private and if the circumstances are right, you can mail your neighbours and gather at the town center and have parties. good stuff.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
A game change pre-alpha does not a NGE make. Stop saying that. It is retarded. The games design, from the very onset was a work of fiction that would never work. The game was simply not able to be produced.
You are confusing Sierra MEO with Turbine MEO. Sierra MMO was a pipe dream of the 90s that never reached a public state. The MEO we are all talking about in this thread was heavily advertised, played by many, demonstrated, and I personally was in the alpha testing for. It existed, it was changed literally with a few months before launch, to LotRO. The devs went from "Middle-Earth Online will attempt to bring true role-playing aspects to the world of massively multiplayer games--a world that, as he suggested, seems more focused on creating large fields of monsters to hunt rather than allowing players the freedom to play as epic heroes and villains" to a hack and slash instanced linear game, because WoW sold well.
Still going to try to argue with people who know a ton more on the subject than you do? Figures you were a vapor troll turned regular troll.
Darkfall Travelogues!
This is why you like darkfall. You believe every bit of marketing that includes your favorite buzzwords. They do not need to deliver on it in anyway shape or form. Just say it.
There WAS no MEO, it was a piece of paper, nothing more.
I have a bridge for sale that is seamless, has open PvP and full looting, will bring Role playing back to RPG's, with have the most epic endgame, and will feature the most dynamic world ever!
Interested? I love empty bullet point words words too!
Sorry but your wrong, this MEO was still Turbine, look at the article. It was more than a peice of paper, your just confusing the development by the two different companies. Seirras ideas and Turbines Original ideas were very similar. But over time Turbine started changing everything. Again that gameplay video, which even you mention was by Turbine, had the heroes and villians system shown in it.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Lots of things from the paper that is MEO is in LOTRO, however, NOTHING of MEO came to light until turbine made it so. True, they used some of the models and assets from sierra (as you see in that vid) that all had to be replaced due to errors, and just down right bad for 3D work.
What you called degenerated, other sane people call Evolved and was saved by.
Permadeath... REALLY? Yeah. k. The game was simply a bad design. Technically, and from a design standpoint. Hence, why it was stopped, and handed over lock stock and barrel to one of the most experienced MMO developers to this day, and at that time.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
"Anyone still hoping for the real "Middle Earth Online" to start development?"
Nope, not even in the slightest.
You guys keep saying "true reole-playing aspects" as if its supposed to mean anything. I read the OP and all I got was that MEO was completely different than Lotro, except the only difference mentioned was instancing. how is no instancing a true role-play aspect? Also, from those videos, all I see is early lotro footage, with characters fighting and running around.
Can anyone elaborate on what exactly changed from MEO to Lotro?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Truth is, Turbine did as good as they can do. They are just not a great development company. I don't know anyone that isn't a die hard fan that can say AC, AC2, DDO, and LOTRO are anything but "ok" games.
One big clue is the fact that they could NOT figure out a way to make the combat "fun" and the classes unique (in Turbine's own opinion) without having big flashy particle effects, even though they have absolutely no place in the world. I think AoC showed that combat can be fun without the NEED to have flashy particle effects.
Yes, I know AoC has particle effects, but what I'm saying is that they aren't needed for the combat to be entertaining. The animations are enough to make the combat fun. Also AoC's atmosphere and world design does a much better job portraying what I would picture a Middle-Earth-esque time than LOTRO's cartoony portrayal.
Just FYI: I don't play AoC and haven't since it was first released. But I did like the combat and the world design. The bad PvP just killed the game for me, though.
The LOTRO license needs to be given to a company that can actually do something with it. I'd like to see what Blizzard or Bioware could do with it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Lots of things from the paper that is MEO is in LOTRO, however, NOTHING of MEO came to light until turbine made it so. True, they used some of the models and assets from sierra (as you see in that vid) that all had to be replaced due to errors, and just down right bad for 3D work.
What you called degenerated, other sane people call Evolved and was saved by.
Permadeath... REALLY? Yeah. k. The game was simply a bad design. Technically, and from a design standpoint. Hence, why it was stopped, and handed over lock stock and barrel to one of the most experienced MMO developers to this day, and at that time.
Oh you are a very VERY confused individual, see above post and recant, or just vanish from the thread.
Darkfall Travelogues!
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Lots of things from the paper that is MEO is in LOTRO, however, NOTHING of MEO came to light until turbine made it so. True, they used some of the models and assets from sierra (as you see in that vid) that all had to be replaced due to errors, and just down right bad for 3D work.
What you called degenerated, other sane people call Evolved and was saved by.
Permadeath... REALLY? Yeah. k. The game was simply a bad design. Technically, and from a design standpoint. Hence, why it was stopped, and handed over lock stock and barrel to one of the most experienced MMO developers to this day, and at that time.
You continue to bring up things that had nothing to do with the MEO we are talking about. Never once do I remember permadeath in MEO. At this point your just trolling, I dont see how you can say "Less classes, and a more limited PVP system" as "Evolved".
You are confusing Sierra MEO with Turbine MEO.
One int he same. When sierra was unable to deliver, the IP and all assets were given to turbine, hence why early LOTRO (Turbine MEO) looked like MEO (Sierra), even feature wise, however Turbine eventually realized just how deeply flawed the ideas were.
And the mmo world was better for it.
You guys may wish to read the link I posted.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I dunno... permadeath, your toon automatically running away from higher level mobs, and being captured by orcs and unable to play til your friends rescue you doesn't appeal at all?
It's interesting to see a bit of the inspiration for the dread mechanic, though.
a lot of that looked exactly llike LotrO, except for Lotro has way way better graphics .
That would be because after sierras design failed, Turbine picked up the development of it.
MEO was never going to be anything but a pipe dream the original design was a joke, it had so many issues and conflicts i was not even funny.
It was also in the hands of a development house that had a HARD time transitioning from 2d (That they did masterfully) to 3D. Just look at the renders (Because MEO NEVER had any in game graphics, only renders). Its like bad scan-line renders of the 90's, hell, it WAS the 90's. Letalone make one of the first MMO's, not going to happen.
You do not have to take my word for it. That project was doomed to fail, and eventialy became just a project to meet milestones. It was never going to see the light of day.
Anyone who thinks it would have been a great game A) Was not around when it was in development
Has no development experience at all C) Has a giant pair of rose colored glasses D) Bought into the Serra hype that was for no one other than the investors.
You got taken for a ride with your nostalgia.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
The point of this thread isnt to say "Hey guys, lets rez the failed MEO", its to get people aware of the old MEO, so that a new one can come out of the woodwork, a real "Middle Earth Online". The fact is, I have this bit of hope that we may some day still see a new MMO based in the world of Middle Earth, and with that, I open discussion to see what people think of the old MEO, and what could be with the new one.
Well, that was a very good article (thanks Mr. Bloodworth) and it certainly shed light on many things.
I'm not sure if I would have liked MEO, at least from what I've read about it. However, though I like most of LOTRO there are many things that just make me roll my eyes.
I don't like the avatars. Or Rune Keeprs for that matter.
I don't like (though did enjoy for what it was worth) how they did moria and that they jumped ahead in time and made it a mini, yet dangerous, city.
I don't like the "gamey" attributes like handing in coins for new equipment. Oh, I think it's a great system as it gives players a way to pick and choose rewards but I would have found it funny if after the characters left moria, they each noticed a small coin in their hands only to have Frodo turn to Aragorn and ask "what's this"?
But then again, for what it's worth, I think I was hoping for a more "world" feeling and a world that really made me feel like I was in middle earth. I have only ever gotten that in a few instances. One of them being the time I tried out the hobbit starter instance and saw the nazgul.
But running through Bree and looking around, it just doesn't feel right.
I've thought long and hard about what I would do differently and I almost think that the game works quite well but not really as the world of middle earth.
Oh sure, I've had some holy cow moments such as riding through a blizzard at night and looking into the murky distance to see the faint lights of the gobline fires. Or the original old forest that was not only difficult to navigate (in a good way) but also dangerous.
Part of it is that it's just difficult to translate a book into a world. Especially one with a story. I almost wonder if it would work better as a morpg and not a mmorpg. Or to be more clear "multiplayer online role playing game" as opposed to "massive".
So that players can team up in hub areas and then move about the world as a fellowhship experiencing the places like bree or the shire in more of a pure way.
All I know is that for my tastes, as good as the game is (and it is good) it doesn't convey a true sense of middle earth to me and I find it hard to swallow bree or moria as social hubs. Or even lothlorien for that matter.
in some ways it truly is a theme park. Not using that word as a judgment but rather as an observation.
At Disney world you have tomorrow land and frontiere land and Fantasy land. In LOTRO you have Bree and Moria and Lothlorien and Lone Lands, etc. Everyone running about enjoying themselves on whatever ride they happen to be on or on their way to trying.
And again that's a tough one as creating a world from a book and one that is required to immerse players into a story is no small task. It is a razor's edge of a happy medium but one that I find difficult to navigate at times. Especially when I log into Vanguard and feel that I'm part of a huge world to explore (game play aside) and one where I am constantly making discoveries.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Conventional PvP was never considered an option by Turbine because they knew that the game depended for success on the 90% of their potential customers who would be attracted by the lore of Tolkien rather than the 10% who would be attracted by the thought of griefing hobbits in the Shire. It's really as simple as that.
Not all games are suitable for PvP, nor is there any reason why they should be, just as not all games are centred around PvE. This is one game that wasn't remotely suitable for conventional PvP although Turbine have done well in my view to introduce a limited version of it with monster play that enables at least some PvP'ers to be comfortable with the game whilst not impacting on everyone else.
You are confusing Sierra MEO with Turbine MEO.
One int he same. When sierra was unable to deliver, the IP and all assets were given to turbine, hence why early LOTRO (Turbine MEO) looked like MEO (Sierra), even feature wise, however Turbine eventually realized just how deeply flawed the ideas were.
And the mmo world was better for it.
You guys may wish to read the link I posted.
You are very clearly just trolling right now. Please leave. Almost nothing at all remained of the Sierra ideas when Turbine took over the project. There was a 3-4 year gap where there was no development. Turbine's MEO was made from scratch using their Asheron's Call 2 engine. Nice try though, but I live right next to Turbine's HQ, and I met with the MEO devs back in 2003,04and 05. I know my stuff about this game. We are talking about the Middle Earth Online that Turbine advertised and developed and tested for years, before swiftly changing the gameplay features to reflect that of WoW. Get with the program please.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Turbine did a great job with LoTRO. It's a game with lots of quality and great storytelling.
Why would ayone do another LoTR MMO?
Unlike Warhammer lore for example, wich was completed left out by Cryptic, Turbine really honored Tolkien's work and made a very good game. Wich will be around for yet alot of time.
While I completely agree that development on the game was horrible, that doesnt mean it wasnt going to be a good game. And what do you mean "never had any In game Graphics", there was a whole gameplay video on gamespot that featured a UI, quests, and combat.
Made by turbine.
Yes that is true, but your forgetting that the game still when created by Turbine under the title "Middle Earth ONline", started out very similar to what Sierra wanted to do. As I said before over time, MEO degenerated into LOTRO like when they announced the switch from seamless houses, to instanced ones.
Just like the article posted by Signus, the MEO Turbine was making still had the "Villians and Heroes" or dark and light scenario for character development. And many other features exactly like the Middle Earth Game Sierra wanted.
Actually, I liked the instanced housing, where they divided the players into neighbourhoods. It sure beats an endless expanse of land littered with slums. Now, keep in mind I never experienced non instanced housing, so that may be wrong, but thats how I envision it to be. Neighbourhoods are more private and if the circumstances are right, you can mail your neighbours and gather at the town center and have parties. good stuff.
SWG was non-instanced housing, and while it was pretty cool, I don't see where instancing would make it less cool. It wasn't like anybody could tell your house from anyone elses. Just another player "city" with 2-3 different house designs all laid out in a row.
Folks dwelling on it seem to me to be so wrapped up in their narcissism that they actually think strangers care to see how they decorated their house.
To go out on a limb. I believe people think that this IP is capable of sooooo much more when considering an mmo.
That's not to say LOTRO is bad. Crap I've subbed 3 times.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
First off, Cryptic did not develop Warhammer, but im sure thats just an honest mistake. Secondly I would have told you that was somewhat correct a couple years ago (I still didnt totally agree with lorekeepers back then), but Rune-Keepers have kept me clear of the games "Sticking to the Lore" idea for some time now. Its obvious that Turbine was running low on ideas and had to start bending if not fully breaking the rules.
You are correct, the Tolkien foundation after being burned on there keystone IP took quite a while to pass it on. Also, an engine does not a game make, the game layer does. So that was irrelevant to bring up.
Point being, Sierras vision, nor Turbines vision that came from it, was a good design. Hence. We have the successful LOTRO we have today. Your personal grumps do not counter this.
Considering that AC2 pretty much defined the modern MMO (Its downfall was due to not being a true sequial to AC1), and is part of the basis for Wow, you imply that LOTRO was an attempt to copy Wow, is like saying Turbine cloned itself.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me