Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
WoW = EZ Mode!! Too Damn EAZE!! But why is it EAZY?
tro44_1
Member Posts: 1,819
I read many theads here, and notice a lot of talk about WoW being EZ mode. But what definds a MMORPG to be easy?
I remember in TBC, how most players didnt even reach Illidan and SW before nerf point leading to WoTLK. Also didnt one of the top guilds just recently down a end game raid?
Why do you all say it is easy mode?
Cause of Lvling being faster? Well lvling imo, was never intended to be the main focus of WoW or any MMO for that matter. Lvling seems to be a way for players to learn some skill before they hit the true game at end game.
It just happens that since WoW has gotton so spread out over X-pacs, that Instances for Lore and more lvls Skill gaining, has been droped, and forceing Players to have to push for end game without Dungeon exp. Which is why Blizzard made lvling faster.
Does that make it easy mode?
What about the new 10man and 25 man format for raids? IMO this has made raiding harder. In vanilla WoW, I didnt need to have the best of the best gear and skill inorder to compete in early raid dungeons, since my faults could rely heavyly on other players in the 40man raids, to have my back when I slacked.
Now that raids have gotton smaller, Slacking off is much more noticable. Which is why many Vanilla raid guilds broke up in early TBC in starter raids like Kara.
What about PvP. Is that Easy mode also? Can a nub get to top ranks in Arena? Can a nub, playing crappy class (like a TBC Ret Pally for example), beat a OP class played by a vet? WoW's PvP takes no Skill right?
Comments
This will be a fuuuny thread but I agree with you.
Actually the original EQ was just a leveling game. That was indeed the main focus of the entire game.
Later they added raids, but when it released, people didn't know there would even be an "end game". Everyone was playing the game to level.
Which makes sense, since single player RPGs, and then later Multi Player games, are based on paper and pencil games like Dungeons and Dragons.
There wasn't really a "raiding" or "RvR" game, it was just leveling. When you reached max level, you started over. Same with RPg single players. You leveled, got to the end, that was it.
So yes, current MMORPGs like WoW have evolved into an "end game" focus, and made the leveling part superficial, but it's just incorrect to say leveling was never intended to be the main focus of any MMO.
but I can see how you might think that if you started playing MMORPGs with WoW.
Actually the original EQ was just a leveling game. That was indeed the main focus of the entire game.
Later they added raids, but when it released, people didn't know there would even be an "end game". Everyone was playing the game to level.
Which makes sense, since single player RPGs, and then later Multi Player games, are based on paper and pencil games like Dungeons and Dragons.
There wasn't really a "raiding" or "RvR" game, it was just leveling. When you reached max level, you started over. Same with RPg single players. You leveled, got to the end, that was it.
So yes, current MMORPGs like WoW have evolved into an "end game" focus, and made the leveling part superficial, but it's just incorrect to say leveling was never intended to be the main focus of any MMO.
but I can see how you might think that if you started playing MMORPGs with WoW.
Agree.
You can often distinguish two different claims when somebody says "WoW is easy".
The first one has more to do with the user-friendliness of the GUIs and the simple rules for the character development. It is very easy for a newcomer to get used to the GUI, and to understand how the character will develop (with talent points). The distribution of attribute points (STR, AGI..) goes automatically as you level up, and the talent trees are easy to master. Crafting is also easy to master.
The second claim is that the game is easy to beat. Well, if you don't take into account the achievements and hard modes, a new player can complete everything within a reasonable amount of time (or even shorter if he's being carried through, of course), especially under the new developer's mentality since WotLK.
1. Leveling used to be part of the adventure and seeing someone at end game you could tell they had put time and effort into getting there, thats not always true anymore.
2. PvP is completely gear orientated, plus its made up of 3 second fight scenes were you mash 2-3 buttons to win. (this was even stated by a blizzard official recently mainly about healing)
3. As i said above you only have to mash a few buttons for your entire rotation. I do not currently play WoW but a few of my friends still do. And i know for a fact that they often pull top DPS and tank or heal almost perfectly just pushing a few keys the whole time,(this is through the so called "hard" 10-25 man raids you speak of.
4. And your right TBC was a lot harder. It took people forever to reach illidan. In WotLK people complete brand new raids in a matter of weeks if not days.
Lastly i am not hating on WoW. I just do not enjoy it anymore after 3 years. And I hope Cata will fix a lot of the things I mentioned above and i might just come back.
I've said it before and i'm sure i'll say it again. WoW arenas is the MOST skill based/competitive pvp in any mmo, you can't simply win a fight because you have more numbers. Its ALWAYS fair encounters, sure you can say there are OP teams, with 2's being meaningless now its not really so. Even if you do have an OP team you'll have to face tons of mirrors since its so easy to reroll a FOTM class.
Give me an mmo that takes more skill and is more competitive than WoW and i'm sure i'd be able to shut it down. In my online gaming experience the only thing more competitive and skill based than WoW arenas are old school Counter Strike 5v5 in CAL leagues.
PVE in any game is easy to some degree, grab 10-25 competent people learn a fight and go. The only time i could see a PVE encounter be hard is if the PVE boss was player controlled, without pre-meditated moves.
1. Leveling used to be part of the adventure and seeing someone at end game you could tell they had put time and effort into getting there, thats not always true anymore.
2. PvP is completely gear orientated, plus its made up of 3 second fight scenes were you mash 2-3 buttons to win. (this was even stated by a blizzard official recently mainly about healing)
3. As i said above you only have to mash a few buttons for your entire rotation. I do not currently play WoW but a few of my friends still do. And i know for a fact that they often pull top DPS and tank or heal almost perfectly just pushing a few keys the whole time,(this is through the so called "hard" 10-25 man raids you speak of.
4. And your right TBC was a lot harder. It took people forever to reach illidan. In WotLK people complete brand new raids in a matter of weeks if not days.
Lastly i am not hating on WoW. I just do not enjoy it anymore after 3 years. And I hope Cata will fix a lot of the things I mentioned above and i might just come back.
PvP is not completely gear oriented, since gear is way too easy to get these days to have any huge ilvl difference between better geared people and it's not madde of 3 second fights with 2-3 buttons to win, more like 40 buttons.
Retarded kills happen at all ratings because of WOTLK's fast pacing(which I hate a lot), but most of the kills that look like "burst kills" are done after 1-2 minutes of outplaying the enemy team.
But WOTLK itself...ugh, it was dissapointing for me, because of Blizzard's new mentality(and I'm not talking the one where casuals could have raids, but things like nerfing several specs in both PVP and PvE to be easier to play, removal of usefulness of professions, ToC's designetc).
That doesn't mean WoW doesn't have challenging raids tho. Most of Ulduar hardmodes were on par with BT and Yogg Saron 25 with 0 keepers was extremely hard).
1. Leveling used to be part of the adventure and seeing someone at end game you could tell they had put time and effort into getting there, thats not always true anymore.
2. PvP is completely gear orientated, plus its made up of 3 second fight scenes were you mash 2-3 buttons to win. (this was even stated by a blizzard official recently mainly about healing)
3. As i said above you only have to mash a few buttons for your entire rotation. I do not currently play WoW but a few of my friends still do. And i know for a fact that they often pull top DPS and tank or heal almost perfectly just pushing a few keys the whole time,(this is through the so called "hard" 10-25 man raids you speak of.
4. And your right TBC was a lot harder. It took people forever to reach illidan. In WotLK people complete brand new raids in a matter of weeks if not days.
Lastly i am not hating on WoW. I just do not enjoy it anymore after 3 years. And I hope Cata will fix a lot of the things I mentioned above and i might just come back.
You think TBC was hard lol, let me tell you why they might have taken gaes to get to illidan. BT was full of usless trash every corner u moved, it was not about hard, it was about a huge instance with umpteen bosses and with mind numbing tediuos trash. SSC was not hard, nore was TK. Only raid that the Top, yes top guilds that actually completed SWP said was hard was SWP. PVP maybe gera orientated if that was the case why is not every noob running around with glad titles, and froswyrn mounts? You no why ebcause any noob can run around in top end gera, in arena u will have ur face wiped right of if u think u can enter with just gera and expect to win.. Look at the top arean game players, playing for thousands of diollars, and look that the elnght of videos please, they do not finish in 3 secs. I think u confuse ur lack of skills at duelling with actual tactics in arena or any BG. Any noob can mash a button, the actual mechanics behind all of wows dps rotations and pulling dps is actual more complex than u cna even imagine, along with a host of other variables, you only need to look on Elititistjerks.com to see this. These are people that actually do the math behind the emchanics of the game from maximising ur gera, to ur skills , to ur rotations. So please dont sya its as easy as mashing 1 button, because for hell is sure, any noob going into a raid thinking his gona top dps meters by just mashing some buttons randomly is chatting pure BS.
simply stated, it's so easy now because of all the people who started playing, who have no mmorpg experience, whining on the forums that everything is hard. Therefore they have to dumb it down for the new people to keep the sub numbers up, and spoon feed their community everything for fear of people quitting.
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
1. Leveling used to be part of the adventure and seeing someone at end game you could tell they had put time and effort into getting there, thats not always true anymore.
2. PvP is completely gear orientated, plus its made up of 3 second fight scenes were you mash 2-3 buttons to win. (this was even stated by a blizzard official recently mainly about healing)
3. As i said above you only have to mash a few buttons for your entire rotation. I do not currently play WoW but a few of my friends still do. And i know for a fact that they often pull top DPS and tank or heal almost perfectly just pushing a few keys the whole time,(this is through the so called "hard" 10-25 man raids you speak of.
4. And your right TBC was a lot harder. It took people forever to reach illidan. In WotLK people complete brand new raids in a matter of weeks if not days.
Lastly i am not hating on WoW. I just do not enjoy it anymore after 3 years. And I hope Cata will fix a lot of the things I mentioned above and i might just come back.
You think TBC was hard lol, let me tell you why they might have taken gaes to get to illidan. BT was full of usless trash every corner u moved, it was not about hard, it was about a huge instance with umpteen bosses and with mind numbing tediuos trash. SSC was not hard, nore was TK. Only raid that the Top, yes top guilds that actually completed SWP said was hard was SWP. PVP maybe gera orientated if that was the case why is not every noob running around with glad titles, and froswyrn mounts? You no why ebcause any noob can run around in top end gera, in arena u will have ur face wiped right of if u think u can enter with just gera and expect to win.. Look at the top arean game players, playing for thousands of diollars, and look that the elnght of videos please, they do not finish in 3 secs. I think u confuse ur lack of skills at duelling with actual tactics in arena or any BG. Any noob can mash a button, the actual mechanics behind all of wows dps rotations and pulling dps is actual more complex than u cna even imagine, along with a host of other variables, you only need to look on Elititistjerks.com to see this. These are people that actually do the math behind the emchanics of the game from maximising ur gera, to ur skills , to ur rotations. So please dont sya its as easy as mashing 1 button, because for hell is sure, any noob going into a raid thinking his gona top dps meters by just mashing some buttons randomly is chatting pure BS.
And what if i said I’ve SEEN my friends doing this? I even had a friend who bound 3 skills on his mouse and used click to move and got top DPS in a hardcore raiding guild? Its very easily possible. I will admit that the arena can be different but unless you get into the top tiers of the arena it really isn’t that hard. battles become longer in the arena due to the resilience ratings. Plus BGs being hard? Are you kidding me? BGs are the EZmode PVP by far, I will give some credit to the people who are in the top tiers of the Arena but BG fights are a laugh. I’ve seen a ret pally who ran through WSG w/o fighting anybody grabbed the flag and went right back going through the center the whole time with my entire team attacking him and he wasn’t getting heals from 1 priest who we took out very quickly. We didn’t stand a chance. If someone can become that OP you know there’s something going on. But that also shows its one in a million.
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
While I don't fully agree with him(there are a lot of "better" competitve games out there these days, hell, even TF2 is at least on par with WoW's arena when played competitively), there is a large skillcap in arena.
You have to create strategies in real time and apply them at a very fast rate because global cooldown these days is even lower than 1.5 seconds on most caster classes and there are crucial abilities off global cooldown which require <100 ms reactions and proper thinking to you use them at the proper time.
But it isn't about the twitch, it's about the decisions. Who makes the better decision and uses the tools he got properly wins. It's like a twisted version of Chess. And there is a huge number of macros you can have for quick access that will give you the upper edge.
Then, there's the coordonation between your partner as well. You can't just run in arena and leave everyone do their own thing. That will never work. You'll need to time CC/healing/abilities, use tricks, etc.
Easy and hard are subjective.
If you feel WoW is easy, then it's easy for you.
If you feel WoW is hard, then it's hard for you.
Michael Phelps probably thinks swimming is easy. Tiger Woods probably thinks golf is easy.
1. Leveling used to be part of the adventure and seeing someone at end game you could tell they had put time and effort into getting there, thats not always true anymore.
2. PvP is completely gear orientated, plus its made up of 3 second fight scenes were you mash 2-3 buttons to win. (this was even stated by a blizzard official recently mainly about healing)
3. As i said above you only have to mash a few buttons for your entire rotation. I do not currently play WoW but a few of my friends still do. And i know for a fact that they often pull top DPS and tank or heal almost perfectly just pushing a few keys the whole time,(this is through the so called "hard" 10-25 man raids you speak of.
4. And your right TBC was a lot harder. It took people forever to reach illidan. In WotLK people complete brand new raids in a matter of weeks if not days.
Lastly i am not hating on WoW. I just do not enjoy it anymore after 3 years. And I hope Cata will fix a lot of the things I mentioned above and i might just come back.
You think TBC was hard lol, let me tell you why they might have taken gaes to get to illidan. BT was full of usless trash every corner u moved, it was not about hard, it was about a huge instance with umpteen bosses and with mind numbing tediuos trash. SSC was not hard, nore was TK. Only raid that the Top, yes top guilds that actually completed SWP said was hard was SWP. PVP maybe gera orientated if that was the case why is not every noob running around with glad titles, and froswyrn mounts? You no why ebcause any noob can run around in top end gera, in arena u will have ur face wiped right of if u think u can enter with just gera and expect to win.. Look at the top arean game players, playing for thousands of diollars, and look that the elnght of videos please, they do not finish in 3 secs. I think u confuse ur lack of skills at duelling with actual tactics in arena or any BG. Any noob can mash a button, the actual mechanics behind all of wows dps rotations and pulling dps is actual more complex than u cna even imagine, along with a host of other variables, you only need to look on Elititistjerks.com to see this. These are people that actually do the math behind the emchanics of the game from maximising ur gera, to ur skills , to ur rotations. So please dont sya its as easy as mashing 1 button, because for hell is sure, any noob going into a raid thinking his gona top dps meters by just mashing some buttons randomly is chatting pure BS.
And what if i said I’ve SEEN my friends doing this? I even had a friend who bound 3 skills on his mouse and used click to move and got top DPS in a hardcore raiding guild? Its very easily possible. I will admit that the arena can be different but unless you get into the top tiers of the arena it really isn’t that hard. battles become longer in the arena due to the resilience ratings. Plus BGs being hard? Are you kidding me? BGs are the EZmode PVP by far, I will give some credit to the people who are in the top tiers of the Arena but BG fights are a laugh. I’ve seen a ret pally who ran through WSG w/o fighting anybody grabbed the flag and went right back going through the center the whole time with my entire team attacking him and he wasn’t getting heals from 1 priest who we took out very quickly. We didn’t stand a chance. If someone can become that OP you know there’s something going on. But that also shows its one in a million.
you can have many players ganking a paladin but if he has the shield on cool down and activates it there is nothing you can do. priests can bubble up but it's easy to break, paladins are annoying because the bubble makes him immune for a long period of time plus he can full heal with the click of one spell. played both, fun stuff!
I remember back pre-TBC, when using crowd control in 5 man instances not only made it faster to go through the instance but sometimes was required to survive. Now WoW has turned into run-through-and-AoE-everything -game, where you can complete 90% of the content without knowing what you are doing.
You couldn't do BC heroics without CC either...just saying. BC wasn't bad at all.
Firstly, arenas ARE NOT easy, especially in 5v5. I know it from my own experience when I played it. Many people tend to spread FUD these days, but when they try to achieve something in this "EAZY MODE LOLZ" arena, they all tend to flop, fail and quit.
Secondly, I never even were in hardcore raiding guild ( as I am more of a PvP player) but heroics are hard. I remember SWP, Ulduar that simply overwhelmed us. So again, I think it's more of a myth.
So why wow is easy then? Actually, the answer is quite simple. WoW is easy to understand, but very difficult to master. This easiness comes from character customization (all STR, AGI, INT and other stats are put automatically as you level), intuitive UI, quite easy leveling (yes, grind is NOT hard, it's just monotonous) and many other factors. Many people tend to hate on most popular games, that's a fact. WoW here is no exception.
Disclaimer: NO, I don't play WoW as I find EVE diplomacy and world pvp consequences more of my taste. However, denial of WoW's quality is foolish to say the least....
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
SO by that logic open PvP zerging takes the most skill huh? AND, every professional sport takes no skill and isn't competitve? Go tell Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, anyone in the NFL or NBA that their sport takes no skill and then we can all laugh at you=)
It's simple really the more you make easier the more people play and stick around, thus the more money they make!
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
no I haven't played Darkfall, but yes when people are put into situations where they both have the same opportunity to win that makes it skillful and competitive. If WoW arenas weren't competitive there wouldn't be a crazy amount of prize tournaments out there. I've looked at a lot of dark fall pvp encounters its the same old open pvp concept. Sure there is some strategy involved, but you can just as easily bring 50 people to meet 10 people and steam roll them. Thats hardly my idea of being competitive and or skill full.
I've played a lot of "open pvp" games they're not rare, AoC Aion are both open pvp games. My experience in open pvp games are people run away from fair fights, and only engage in fights where they know they'll win. This was especially true in Aion.
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
SO by that logic open PvP zerging takes the most skill huh? AND, every professional sport takes no skill and isn't competitve? Go tell Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, anyone in the NFL or NBA that their sport takes no skill and then we can all laugh at you=)
Oh dont get me wrong i in no way said that DF pvp was skill based other than a slight twitch factor. I stopped playing it after the first 2 months, but they are taking steps to make something other than 200 >199 = win . Im just saying that ive never found any type of pvp or gameplay without some kind of consequence for loosing to be very much of a "challenge".
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
no I haven't played Darkfall, but yes when people are put into situations where they both have the same opportunity to win that makes it skillful and competitive. If WoW arenas weren't competitive there would be a crazy amount of prize tournaments out there. I've looked at a lot of dark fall pvp encounters its the same old open pvp concept. Sure there is some strategy involved, but you can just as easily bring 50 people to meet 10 people and steam roll them. Thats hardly my idea of being competitive and or skill full.
I've played a lot of "open pvp" games they're not rare, AoC Aion are both open pvp games. My experience in open pvp games are people run away from fair fights, and only engage in fights where they know they'll win. This was especially true in Aion.
Thats the biggest problem with games today. Most new gamers started with WoW, and most of the only open pvp games they know of are Aion,AoC, or DF. The problem with this that hardly anyone remember the great RvR pvp of DAoC, or the open pvp of Shadowbane. Or the original kids on the bloack UO,or AC.
You lost me with: "Lvling seems to be a way for players to learn some skill before they hit the true game at end game"
I personaly don't know why people play a MMORPG when they feel the true game is at endgame. Obvious at max lvl you can get your hands onto anything ranging from master crafting recipy's to high end raids, but what about all the thing before someone reaches cap lvl?
The thing I am afraid of is due to this true game at end game mentality, we will see less and less intresting journey play.
I tend to say games in this genre are pretty easy overall, some just lack a certain depth which can be see as a pretty easy or EZ Mode game. But then I am talking about it from a journey perspective, not so much about the true game at end game way.
all those games are really old, they were before my time and i'm sure a lot of players times. I started my mmo career 6 years ago with lineage 2, that game actually took some skill for castle sieges. It was still a numbers game, but you had to socialize with other clans to form alliances.
So based on the fact that the PVP encounters in the ARENA pvp in wow are always the same amount of people on the same side , this is supposed to make it skillful and competitive? . . . . . . .
Have you actualy played any other PVP games? Other than say DF?
SO by that logic open PvP zerging takes the most skill huh? AND, every professional sport takes no skill and isn't competitve? Go tell Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, anyone in the NFL or NBA that their sport takes no skill and then we can all laugh at you=)
Oh dont get me wrong i in no way said that DF pvp was skill based other than a slight twitch factor. I stopped playing it after the first 2 months, but they are taking steps to make something other than 200 >199 = win . Im just saying that ive never found any type of pvp or gameplay without some kind of consequence for loosing to be very much of a "challenge".
You have no idea how ruthless rating feels for some people.
So many players step up in arena and expect to get 2000 rating in a night, after never playing before.
And after they see how they cannot break 1000 after months of playing(even those players who got awesome PvE weapons and powerful gear), they'll start bitching on forums about various things when the only guilty person is them.
In BC, for example, there was a Mage+Warlock team that got 1900 naked(yeah, no gear, plain naked). That wasn't even a FOTM comp and it never was...so how could those players get that rating if WoW is 100% dependant on gear and FOTM setups.
WoW has its unique style of PvP, that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the awesome sieges of Lineage 2.