Originally posted by Hydhra Well you are right i dont know what an MMO is but my take on an MMO is something to do with the whole server or a large portion of the players playing the game and where do you find that in WoW.... in the cities where people gather to chat and show off nothing more... they could do that on battle.net instead. Ive played games where the whole server went PVP'ing to defend thier realm, thats MMO, WoW had some of it in Vanilla but they lost it all when they turned towards multiplayer features instead of evolving thier MMO style.
You do realize that by these standards UO or EQ would not be considered MMOs as well?
Calling WoW a MMO is almost pointless imho all it is a Multiplayer game where people can gather in a city and sell stuff nothing more... MMO is something that brings all people together to fight something together and that concept have gotten lost with Blizzard, all they did was making "Ironforge" into a battle.net chat channel, I have no hope for Blizzard to ever being able to make a true MMO game cause they lost all thier innovation when they got thier eye on the mighty $$$$$$ since then they robbeb every other MMO for content they could use in WoW while inventing nothing new. Thier massive income have produced nothing but a few new pixel and alot of stolen features. Arena in a MMO i mean really you wanna play a FPS or group game go play a game like GW. The point of an MMO is to bring people together for a joined effort, fight for something or gather the server for a great event... they did it in vanilla they failed at it ever since.
WoW does bring people together. I have never heard of anyone being able to solo ToC25 before.
WoW is massive, multiplayer, and online. Exactly what MMO means. I think you're issue lies more in the community not liking each other rather than whether or not WoW is an MMO.
So being 25 people together is what an MMO is for you... i mean really then Battlefield must also be an MMO and all other games with a multiplayer feature is a MMO.... really you got no clue what MMO means.
WoW is an mmo in every sense of the word. Yes its a lot easier than it used to but it is still one. If you can't see that then you don't understand what MMO means.
Well you are right i dont know what an MMO is but my take on an MMO is something to do with the whole server or a large portion of the players playing the game and where do you find that in WoW.... in the cities where people gather to chat and show off nothing more... they could do that on battle.net instead.
Ive played games where the whole server went PVP'ing to defend thier realm, thats MMO, WoW had some of it in Vanilla but they lost it all when they turned towards multiplayer features instead of evolving thier MMO style.
those ez sayer never pug run with noob ,never run with green gear only never...any the thing is its easy because they
are too use .bring 4 noob in your group and you ll see how hard your raid truelly is,plus the fact add-on do so much for player that they dont need to think anymore(almost)
but even if its easy blizzrd still is trying to figure out ways to include player left out for various reason(no bad,must know,fight ,show thi and that and that etc
they made it easy but the target they made it easy for are STILL left out
so dont be surprised if blizzard make it easier till raider understand one thing .include the excluded
or we ll make the game so easy they will find group without the pro
for me wow started going downhill when they introduced faster leveling . after that it was a slippery slope . although other players will say it started earlier with changes to the battle grounds . the few players i still know who were playing gave up because of the allowing of both horde an alliance players on the same server . i guess at the end of the day its blizzards game they can do what they want with it but they would have kept a lot of long term players if they had nt made the changes they have . i personally dont think its reaped the rewards they wanted given theres been no official subscription numbers announced by them in nearly a year . to anyone with any sence that means one thing . the numbers hav nt stayed the same so they must have gone down .
for me wow started going downhill when they introduced faster leveling . after that it was a slippery slope . although other players will say it started earlier with changes to the battle grounds . the few players i still know who were playing gave up because of the allowing of both horde an alliance players on the same server . i guess at the end of the day its blizzards game they can do what they want with it but they would have kept a lot of long term players if they had nt made the changes they have . i personally dont think its reaped the rewards they wanted given theres been no official subscription numbers announced by them in nearly a year . to anyone with any sence that means one thing . the numbers hav nt stayed the same so they must have gone down .
How does that even make WoW remotely easy?
WoW end game (yes unlike old school MMOs) is the True game. The lvling was only a tutorial for new players to learn the mechanic for End Game. But This had to be speed up, since the player base was being spread out over many X-pacs. That doesnt mean it is easy mode game.
And what does the things they did to BG make the game EZ mode? THey just made the game quicker, so more people can enjor them. I will admit, Old AV was the most Epic BG ever, but thats long gone, now that Blizzard has added more BG, they have to find a way to spread players over all the games, and not just favorites.<------Does not equal EZ mode-----
probably the most stupid discussion i have ever seen on this forum
ffs people what are you talking about: wow arenas the best pvp out there? original RPG was mainly about lvlup? just hit your heads with something.
Playing: Rohan Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
I haven't played WoW in a while, so I don't know how much easier it has gotten. One thing I do know is, WoW is a good game for every type of player. I can't lie, I had the most fun in WoW so far. I doubt I will ever go back, but imo they got a lot of stuff right... which is probably why it's so successful.
Calling WoW a MMO is almost pointless imho all it is a Multiplayer game where people can gather in a city and sell stuff nothing more... MMO is something that brings all people together to fight something together and that concept have gotten lost with Blizzard, all they did was making "Ironforge" into a battle.net chat channel, I have no hope for Blizzard to ever being able to make a true MMO game cause they lost all thier innovation when they got thier eye on the mighty $$$$$$ since then they robbeb every other MMO for content they could use in WoW while inventing nothing new. Thier massive income have produced nothing but a few new pixel and alot of stolen features. Arena in a MMO i mean really you wanna play a FPS or group game go play a game like GW. The point of an MMO is to bring people together for a joined effort, fight for something or gather the server for a great event... they did it in vanilla they failed at it ever since.
WoW is a MMO which brings millions of strangers into a community of gamers for one game. What more do you want? You need them to marry to each other to qualify as an MMO?
The only interaction in WoW is trading? Oh you really play your WoW well. Very imaginative.
We PUG in WoW everyday if we want to do H dailies, I cannot solo them and mostly likely guildies want different H dailies at different times. That means I come to know a few new names everyday. No guarantee I love them all after the PUG, but here and there we pick up friends. I found my current guild from one such PUGs. So yes I am not married to everyone I PUG with, same as the bar, I go drink I do not sleep with them all. PUNT INTENDED.
Define your true MMO. A company that focus on making money automatically fail to deliver their product? So those companies that go broke selling junk products are the true saints in the game industry? Or you are jealous of the success of Blizz as a company. Apart from creating the undefined term "true MMO", you have any reason to denounce Blizz?
Stolen features? Oh I just notice you stole all your 26 alphabets from your parents. In our dear little USA, intellectual properties are already excessively protected. IF someone have a faint idea that WoW stole something, there will already be court battles. In this world we all stole from someone else, unless you claim you know your alphabets before your mom give birth to you.
Oh yeah, I think all other MMOs are true inventors, and Blizz simply cut and paste everything, and yet somehow, Blizz is the one that succeeded and everyone else failed. What other fairy tales do you have in stock. Is the sun a big candie bar?
I know you hate WoW insanely and pathetically, I would respect that, but, come on, if you want to scream out loud, at least make sense.
those ez sayer never pug run with noob ,never run with green gear only never...any the thing is its easy because they are too use .bring 4 noob in your group and you ll see how hard your raid truelly is,plus the fact add-on do so much for player that they dont need to think anymore(almost) but even if its easy blizzrd still is trying to figure out ways to include player left out for various reason(no bad,must know,fight ,show thi and that and that etc they made it easy but the target they made it easy for are STILL left out so dont be surprised if blizzard make it easier till raider understand one thing .include the excluded or we ll make the game so easy they will find group without the pro
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
those ez sayer never pug run with noob ,never run with green gear only never...any the thing is its easy because they are too use .bring 4 noob in your group and you ll see how hard your raid truelly is,plus the fact add-on do so much for player that they dont need to think anymore(almost) but even if its easy blizzrd still is trying to figure out ways to include player left out for various reason(no bad,must know,fight ,show thi and that and that etc they made it easy but the target they made it easy for are STILL left out so dont be surprised if blizzard make it easier till raider understand one thing .include the excluded or we ll make the game so easy they will find group without the pro
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
How retarded. Basically what you're saying is the game is/could be hard if you decide not to play it the way it was intended. That makes zero sense.
Originally posted by Hydhra Well you are right i dont know what an MMO is but my take on an MMO is something to do with the whole server or a large portion of the players playing the game and where do you find that in WoW.... in the cities where people gather to chat and show off nothing more... they could do that on battle.net instead. Ive played games where the whole server went PVP'ing to defend thier realm, thats MMO, WoW had some of it in Vanilla but they lost it all when they turned towards multiplayer features instead of evolving thier MMO style.
You do realize that by these standards UO or EQ would not be considered MMOs as well?
You have played games where the whole server went PvPing ... that means that is the only definition of MMO?
Sure WoW is far less PvP focused than say DAoC. That is the nature of the game. Its basically a PvE focused game, with a lot of other features also present. Judging WoW with only 1 simple rule, a rule for RvR games, is stupid. What you are saying amount to "WoW is not RvR". That is correct. Trying to extend that into saying WoW is not MMO, everyone goes online only to trade, is absurd and totally wrong.
most of replies are so stupid..... probably the most stupid discussion i have ever seen on this forum ffs people what are you talking about: wow arenas the best pvp out there? original RPG was mainly about lvlup? just hit your heads with something.
You need to hit your own head much harder. What is wrong with someone thinking that wow arenas are the best pvp? That is someone's view, not mine, as I do not pvp, but there is no valid reason to say that an opinion is wrong.
Calling others stupid b/c of an opinion you do not agree with? How arrogant and rude can you be?
How "stupidier" can you be? Sigh ... what happen to the taxation money sucked from me every year that is supposed to educate people? See? This is arrogance, this, is essentially stupid. This is exactly what you are doing, pretending to be someone bigger than you are passing humiliating remarks based on totally folly presumptions.
those ez sayer never pug run with noob ,never run with green gear only never...any the thing is its easy because they are too use .bring 4 noob in your group and you ll see how hard your raid truelly is,plus the fact add-on do so much for player that they dont need to think anymore(almost) but even if its easy blizzrd still is trying to figure out ways to include player left out for various reason(no bad,must know,fight ,show thi and that and that etc they made it easy but the target they made it easy for are STILL left out so dont be surprised if blizzard make it easier till raider understand one thing .include the excluded or we ll make the game so easy they will find group without the pro
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
How retarded. Basically what you're saying is the game is/could be hard if you decide not to play it the way it was intended. That makes zero sense.
your serious? who determines how a game should be played? where goes the ruling on the way the game was intended to be played?
How retareded you are. A game is dead you are living. If you can exercise imagination, you can create the best musical score with just a pen and a pencil. If you are stupid, the best computer music creation program won't do you no good.
If you really feel that the only way to play a game is to follow the least resistance path, and that is the only way it is intended, then you already find the least resistance path. How hard can it be? As hard as you try to avoid all the hardiness.
Try eduction. If you only copy assignments from seniors and cheat during examination, yes it is easy. If you care to do your own research, look up alternate views to what your teacher presents, verify his "facts". If you create your own research topics. If ...
Ok you won't. Because you will tell me that is not intended for students.
Ok granted some people want to play games to wind down, easy simple and happy. Cool, that you can do in WoW. WoW is a game with almost no learning curvee and provides some easy meat for carefree players. These people would have no business complaining about a game too easy. For those who care to create challenges, WoW provide enough tools to allow for that. Actually, most games allow for challenges, even chess. Handicaps, that is one standard way to create challenges in a chess game against a totally outclassed opponents. Ever heard of it?
those ez sayer never pug run with noob ,never run with green gear only never...any the thing is its easy because they are too use .bring 4 noob in your group and you ll see how hard your raid truelly is,plus the fact add-on do so much for player that they dont need to think anymore(almost) but even if its easy blizzrd still is trying to figure out ways to include player left out for various reason(no bad,must know,fight ,show thi and that and that etc they made it easy but the target they made it easy for are STILL left out so dont be surprised if blizzard make it easier till raider understand one thing .include the excluded or we ll make the game so easy they will find group without the pro
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
How retarded. Basically what you're saying is the game is/could be hard if you decide not to play it the way it was intended. That makes zero sense.
your serious? who determines how a game should be played? where goes the ruling on the way the game was intended to be played?
How retareded you are. A game is dead you are living. If you can exercise imagination, you can create the best musical score with just a pen and a pencil. If you are stupid, the best computer music creation program won't do you no good.
If you really feel that the only way to play a game is to follow the least resistance path, and that is the only way it is intended, then you already find the least resistance path. How hard can it be? As hard as you try to avoid all the hardiness.
Try eduction. If you only copy assignments from seniors and cheat during examination, yes it is easy. If you care to do your own research, look up alternate views to what your teacher presents, verify his "facts". If you create your own research topics. If ...
Ok you won't. Because you will tell me that is not intended for students.
Ok granted some people want to play games to wind down, easy simple and happy. Cool, that you can do in WoW. WoW is a game with almost no learning curvee and provides some easy meat for carefree players. These people would have no business complaining about a game too easy. For those who care to create challenges, WoW provide enough tools to allow for that. Actually, most games allow for challenges, even chess. Handicaps, that is one standard way to create challenges in a chess game against a totally outclassed opponents. Ever heard of it?
I guess you could play the game with no armor as well in which case all games are hard.
The "WoW is EZmode" claims usually come from long time MMO players who are used to games that are much harder to "beat". Though I wonder how to beat a game where no boss stays dead... but that's not the point now.
WoW has admittedly done away with a few things that were staple in earlier MMOs, namely death penalty and mandatory grouping. Let's be honest here, WoW's death penalty is nonexistant. Yes, a little damage to your gear and a corpse run (as a ghost, so nobody can harm you 'til you pick up your corpse... or 15 Minutes downtime if you prefer to rez at the graveyard). Usually a death sets you back by 10 or so minutes, money-wise. And yes, I take into account what rep cost accumulates when wiping again and again in a big raid, weigh it against the loot and its worth that you pull out of the instance.
Also, it's trivial for most classes and possible for all to level to maxlevel without ever touching any group content, something that was near impossible in most earlier MMOs.
What actually makes WoW easy, though, is its game mechanics, and the changes that were introduced over time. By now it's near impossible for a tank to lose aggro to a DD. At least if he's not trying to be a DD, but in some cases even that works. You can tank via damage by now. Mezzing and CC fell completely (I haven't seen a sheep in months) and I can only be glad that there are no "utility" classes in the classical sense in WoW (classes that specialize in buffing/debuffing/mezzing) because they would be generally useless by now. What it boils down to is gear: Have this equipment, you will succeed, don't have it, you won't. Player skill, while it may still be helpful, it not really a strict requirement. Not anymore at least.
I guess that's what people mean when they talk about "eazy". But that's fine, it makes the game much more accessable for those that just want to play instead of first reading tomes of wisdom how to play their class. Sure, it's still possible to play inefficiently, but there are not so many options that you won't figure something out that works for you if you try. The game is quite forgiving and mistakes are easily recovered.
So whether it's easy or not, what matters is that it seems to be what people want. Or so the sub numbers tell me.
Well, I think it is not so much about challenge than it is about the sense of progression, at least that is how I felt.
The end-game raiding and rewarding players have changed a lot since vanilla WoW or even TBC. Major changes that removed the sense of progression were the following:
- Easing the requirement for consumables (TBC)
- Reducing the size of raids (TBC)
- Comparable gear attainable through others means, like PvP welfare epics (Blizzard's term, not mine)
- Removing attunements (towards the end of TBC) - this was major
- Normal and Heroic modes - from challenging boss-kill encounters to diabloesque nightmare-hell level progression style (WOTLK)
- Achievements (WOTLK)
All that openened door to more raiders by significantly reducing the barrier of entry. It indeed made raiding EASIER. The challenge was no longer about the killing of the next big baddie or conquerring the next major raid instance, but doing already defeated content again in a very gimmicky "hardmode" style combined with e-peen enchancing "achievements" that some loved and some hated. While some might like this change, I certainly did not. Both vanilla WoW and TBC provided much more enjoyable and clear sense of progression for guilds.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Do not confuse accessibilty with difficulty, Wow was designed to be accessible strip out all the tedious things and gave players (or tired to give players)the instant gratifaction, which has made it the success it is today.
Want to talk about hard games talk about flight sims, where it is hard to remember what key does what etc,
Want to talk about hard games talk about twitch games where your reatcion time wholey determines your success, FPSs and driving sims spring to mind.
Talk about Chess where there is immense strategy and you have to think 5 moves in advance etc.
But to come on a public MMO forum to say one game is easy implies that others are hard, please please tell me what MMO is hard, right after you finish telling me go back to year 1 in primary school to continue your studies as you are surely so young in age that you cannot read etc and find any any game in this genre hard!! My God. Come on people.....get a grip already.
Comments
You do realize that by these standards UO or EQ would not be considered MMOs as well?
WoW does bring people together. I have never heard of anyone being able to solo ToC25 before.
WoW is massive, multiplayer, and online. Exactly what MMO means. I think you're issue lies more in the community not liking each other rather than whether or not WoW is an MMO.
So being 25 people together is what an MMO is for you... i mean really then Battlefield must also be an MMO and all other games with a multiplayer feature is a MMO.... really you got no clue what MMO means.
WoW is an mmo in every sense of the word. Yes its a lot easier than it used to but it is still one. If you can't see that then you don't understand what MMO means.
Well you are right i dont know what an MMO is but my take on an MMO is something to do with the whole server or a large portion of the players playing the game and where do you find that in WoW.... in the cities where people gather to chat and show off nothing more... they could do that on battle.net instead.
Ive played games where the whole server went PVP'ing to defend thier realm, thats MMO, WoW had some of it in Vanilla but they lost it all when they turned towards multiplayer features instead of evolving thier MMO style.
Lake WIntergrasp
those ez sayer never pug run with noob ,never run with green gear only never...any the thing is its easy because they
are too use .bring 4 noob in your group and you ll see how hard your raid truelly is,plus the fact add-on do so much for player that they dont need to think anymore(almost)
but even if its easy blizzrd still is trying to figure out ways to include player left out for various reason(no bad,must know,fight ,show thi and that and that etc
they made it easy but the target they made it easy for are STILL left out
so dont be surprised if blizzard make it easier till raider understand one thing .include the excluded
or we ll make the game so easy they will find group without the pro
for me wow started going downhill when they introduced faster leveling . after that it was a slippery slope . although other players will say it started earlier with changes to the battle grounds . the few players i still know who were playing gave up because of the allowing of both horde an alliance players on the same server . i guess at the end of the day its blizzards game they can do what they want with it but they would have kept a lot of long term players if they had nt made the changes they have . i personally dont think its reaped the rewards they wanted given theres been no official subscription numbers announced by them in nearly a year . to anyone with any sence that means one thing . the numbers hav nt stayed the same so they must have gone down .
It's easy for me because I just sit around the shores of Tirisfal and kill murlocs that are 10 level below me.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
How does that even make WoW remotely easy?
WoW end game (yes unlike old school MMOs) is the True game. The lvling was only a tutorial for new players to learn the mechanic for End Game. But This had to be speed up, since the player base was being spread out over many X-pacs. That doesnt mean it is easy mode game.
And what does the things they did to BG make the game EZ mode? THey just made the game quicker, so more people can enjor them. I will admit, Old AV was the most Epic BG ever, but thats long gone, now that Blizzard has added more BG, they have to find a way to spread players over all the games, and not just favorites.<------Does not equal EZ mode-----
most of replies are so stupid.....
probably the most stupid discussion i have ever seen on this forum
ffs people what are you talking about: wow arenas the best pvp out there? original RPG was mainly about lvlup? just hit your heads with something.
Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
I haven't played WoW in a while, so I don't know how much easier it has gotten. One thing I do know is, WoW is a good game for every type of player. I can't lie, I had the most fun in WoW so far. I doubt I will ever go back, but imo they got a lot of stuff right... which is probably why it's so successful.
WoW is a MMO which brings millions of strangers into a community of gamers for one game. What more do you want? You need them to marry to each other to qualify as an MMO?
The only interaction in WoW is trading? Oh you really play your WoW well. Very imaginative.
We PUG in WoW everyday if we want to do H dailies, I cannot solo them and mostly likely guildies want different H dailies at different times. That means I come to know a few new names everyday. No guarantee I love them all after the PUG, but here and there we pick up friends. I found my current guild from one such PUGs. So yes I am not married to everyone I PUG with, same as the bar, I go drink I do not sleep with them all. PUNT INTENDED.
Define your true MMO. A company that focus on making money automatically fail to deliver their product? So those companies that go broke selling junk products are the true saints in the game industry? Or you are jealous of the success of Blizz as a company. Apart from creating the undefined term "true MMO", you have any reason to denounce Blizz?
Stolen features? Oh I just notice you stole all your 26 alphabets from your parents. In our dear little USA, intellectual properties are already excessively protected. IF someone have a faint idea that WoW stole something, there will already be court battles. In this world we all stole from someone else, unless you claim you know your alphabets before your mom give birth to you.
Oh yeah, I think all other MMOs are true inventors, and Blizz simply cut and paste everything, and yet somehow, Blizz is the one that succeeded and everyone else failed. What other fairy tales do you have in stock. Is the sun a big candie bar?
I know you hate WoW insanely and pathetically, I would respect that, but, come on, if you want to scream out loud, at least make sense.
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
How retarded. Basically what you're saying is the game is/could be hard if you decide not to play it the way it was intended. That makes zero sense.
You do realize that by these standards UO or EQ would not be considered MMOs as well?
You have played games where the whole server went PvPing ... that means that is the only definition of MMO?
Sure WoW is far less PvP focused than say DAoC. That is the nature of the game. Its basically a PvE focused game, with a lot of other features also present. Judging WoW with only 1 simple rule, a rule for RvR games, is stupid. What you are saying amount to "WoW is not RvR". That is correct. Trying to extend that into saying WoW is not MMO, everyone goes online only to trade, is absurd and totally wrong.
You need to hit your own head much harder. What is wrong with someone thinking that wow arenas are the best pvp? That is someone's view, not mine, as I do not pvp, but there is no valid reason to say that an opinion is wrong.
Calling others stupid b/c of an opinion you do not agree with? How arrogant and rude can you be?
How "stupidier" can you be? Sigh ... what happen to the taxation money sucked from me every year that is supposed to educate people? See? This is arrogance, this, is essentially stupid. This is exactly what you are doing, pretending to be someone bigger than you are passing humiliating remarks based on totally folly presumptions.
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
How retarded. Basically what you're saying is the game is/could be hard if you decide not to play it the way it was intended. That makes zero sense.
your serious? who determines how a game should be played? where goes the ruling on the way the game was intended to be played?
How retareded you are. A game is dead you are living. If you can exercise imagination, you can create the best musical score with just a pen and a pencil. If you are stupid, the best computer music creation program won't do you no good.
If you really feel that the only way to play a game is to follow the least resistance path, and that is the only way it is intended, then you already find the least resistance path. How hard can it be? As hard as you try to avoid all the hardiness.
Try eduction. If you only copy assignments from seniors and cheat during examination, yes it is easy. If you care to do your own research, look up alternate views to what your teacher presents, verify his "facts". If you create your own research topics. If ...
Ok you won't. Because you will tell me that is not intended for students.
Ok granted some people want to play games to wind down, easy simple and happy. Cool, that you can do in WoW. WoW is a game with almost no learning curvee and provides some easy meat for carefree players. These people would have no business complaining about a game too easy. For those who care to create challenges, WoW provide enough tools to allow for that. Actually, most games allow for challenges, even chess. Handicaps, that is one standard way to create challenges in a chess game against a totally outclassed opponents. Ever heard of it?
Agree. The game can be as hard as you can stomach, and as you have the imagination to set it up.
We once did Dire Maul race. Each race leader pick his own team and race to finish DM North.
We once try to clear stratholm with 1 tank all dps no heal, and see how far we can go. Its evil.
Try to 1heal ToC10, not easy. Try to 1heal anub 10ToC, doable with a paly, not easy.
The game provided by Blizz offers a lot of tools, many fancy tools. What we make of it, depends on us gamers. Hell, trying to solo level 70 heroic instance with every 80 alt, with every talent spec, is in itself much fun.
If those players need to formulate and follow only the safest tested group setup, or bring overgeared full T9.5 members to do Heroic UK, it is of course easy. Actually the easiest game is Darkfall. Camp the newbie spawn point, if you die, you should die.
How retarded. Basically what you're saying is the game is/could be hard if you decide not to play it the way it was intended. That makes zero sense.
your serious? who determines how a game should be played? where goes the ruling on the way the game was intended to be played?
How retareded you are. A game is dead you are living. If you can exercise imagination, you can create the best musical score with just a pen and a pencil. If you are stupid, the best computer music creation program won't do you no good.
If you really feel that the only way to play a game is to follow the least resistance path, and that is the only way it is intended, then you already find the least resistance path. How hard can it be? As hard as you try to avoid all the hardiness.
Try eduction. If you only copy assignments from seniors and cheat during examination, yes it is easy. If you care to do your own research, look up alternate views to what your teacher presents, verify his "facts". If you create your own research topics. If ...
Ok you won't. Because you will tell me that is not intended for students.
Ok granted some people want to play games to wind down, easy simple and happy. Cool, that you can do in WoW. WoW is a game with almost no learning curvee and provides some easy meat for carefree players. These people would have no business complaining about a game too easy. For those who care to create challenges, WoW provide enough tools to allow for that. Actually, most games allow for challenges, even chess. Handicaps, that is one standard way to create challenges in a chess game against a totally outclassed opponents. Ever heard of it?
I guess you could play the game with no armor as well in which case all games are hard.
The "WoW is EZmode" claims usually come from long time MMO players who are used to games that are much harder to "beat". Though I wonder how to beat a game where no boss stays dead... but that's not the point now.
WoW has admittedly done away with a few things that were staple in earlier MMOs, namely death penalty and mandatory grouping. Let's be honest here, WoW's death penalty is nonexistant. Yes, a little damage to your gear and a corpse run (as a ghost, so nobody can harm you 'til you pick up your corpse... or 15 Minutes downtime if you prefer to rez at the graveyard). Usually a death sets you back by 10 or so minutes, money-wise. And yes, I take into account what rep cost accumulates when wiping again and again in a big raid, weigh it against the loot and its worth that you pull out of the instance.
Also, it's trivial for most classes and possible for all to level to maxlevel without ever touching any group content, something that was near impossible in most earlier MMOs.
What actually makes WoW easy, though, is its game mechanics, and the changes that were introduced over time. By now it's near impossible for a tank to lose aggro to a DD. At least if he's not trying to be a DD, but in some cases even that works. You can tank via damage by now. Mezzing and CC fell completely (I haven't seen a sheep in months) and I can only be glad that there are no "utility" classes in the classical sense in WoW (classes that specialize in buffing/debuffing/mezzing) because they would be generally useless by now. What it boils down to is gear: Have this equipment, you will succeed, don't have it, you won't. Player skill, while it may still be helpful, it not really a strict requirement. Not anymore at least.
I guess that's what people mean when they talk about "eazy". But that's fine, it makes the game much more accessable for those that just want to play instead of first reading tomes of wisdom how to play their class. Sure, it's still possible to play inefficiently, but there are not so many options that you won't figure something out that works for you if you try. The game is quite forgiving and mistakes are easily recovered.
So whether it's easy or not, what matters is that it seems to be what people want. Or so the sub numbers tell me.
EZ Mode!! Too Damn EAZE!! But why is it EAZY?
Because the majority of it's playerbase is understood by Blizzard to want it that way, so they give it to them.
Well, I think it is not so much about challenge than it is about the sense of progression, at least that is how I felt.
The end-game raiding and rewarding players have changed a lot since vanilla WoW or even TBC. Major changes that removed the sense of progression were the following:
- Easing the requirement for consumables (TBC)
- Reducing the size of raids (TBC)
- Comparable gear attainable through others means, like PvP welfare epics (Blizzard's term, not mine)
- Removing attunements (towards the end of TBC) - this was major
- Normal and Heroic modes - from challenging boss-kill encounters to diabloesque nightmare-hell level progression style (WOTLK)
- Achievements (WOTLK)
All that openened door to more raiders by significantly reducing the barrier of entry. It indeed made raiding EASIER. The challenge was no longer about the killing of the next big baddie or conquerring the next major raid instance, but doing already defeated content again in a very gimmicky "hardmode" style combined with e-peen enchancing "achievements" that some loved and some hated. While some might like this change, I certainly did not. Both vanilla WoW and TBC provided much more enjoyable and clear sense of progression for guilds.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
ALL MMOs are easy. Eve, LOTROL WOW etc etc.
Do not confuse accessibilty with difficulty, Wow was designed to be accessible strip out all the tedious things and gave players (or tired to give players)the instant gratifaction, which has made it the success it is today.
Want to talk about hard games talk about flight sims, where it is hard to remember what key does what etc,
Want to talk about hard games talk about twitch games where your reatcion time wholey determines your success, FPSs and driving sims spring to mind.
Talk about Chess where there is immense strategy and you have to think 5 moves in advance etc.
But to come on a public MMO forum to say one game is easy implies that others are hard, please please tell me what MMO is hard, right after you finish telling me go back to year 1 in primary school to continue your studies as you are surely so young in age that you cannot read etc and find any any game in this genre hard!! My God. Come on people.....get a grip already.