wouldn't the nine year olds be equivalent to lvl 9+ ? =P anyway, really forget what i said there.. provided im not going to have uber trouble killing two level ones.. then no probs if you know what i mean.. i trust that you (Draconus) can balance it well enough so a gang of 5 lvl 10's are going to be a challenge for me..atleast
again i think drop the level system!
the other thing is im a COMPLETE soloist/griefer.. i don't fight alongside anyone unless they ask me "can i tag along" or are part of my guild and all.. but 90% of the time you will see me out hunting/killing by myself aswell as griefing people into attacking me =P
the other thing is.. make zones.. towns/guarded areas.. like noob zones where it is completly no pvp or for guarded areas make it INCREDIBLY hard for a lvl 100 to walk on in trying to kill some lvl 1's without getting guard smacked
then you want your major lvling areas.. try make these able to pvp in.. so if you want to level hardcore you have to be able to defend yourself aswell as kill mobs and just anywhere someone needs to go e.g. quests and all people may have to fight their way along... past pks..
..ok il just reply to the thread , because i dont have the time to read , where the discussion has gone.
PvP . Well how about accepting or declining the challenge? Simple as that .
Player 1 attacks player two .
Player two gets a msg . "youv been chllngd accept or decline " than its up to him to do what he wants . The game doesnt explain if its an attack from behind , or not . Thats the surprise factor of your decision .
Bah, maybe thieves with high stealing skills would prevent the msg from being sent , but only for the stealing ...
...
"Neon Light" Eon Night
----------------------------- "Neon Light" Eon Night
As some things can be right and useless, can't some things be wrong and priceless? -Viktor Suikoden I
2)No restrictions whatsoever, anyone can attack anyone at anythime.
3)Permadeath
4)Be based on skills, no classes or levels
5)The ability to spare someone, as in not kill them if you defeat them.
6)The ability to record murders (and other crimes) you have witnessed and report them.
*Signature*The Pessimist says the cup is half empty. The Optimist says the cup is half full. The Pragmatist says the cup is half full of air. The Engineer says the cup is operating at 50% capacity. The Psychologist says the cup is your mother. The Punk Kid also says the cup is your mother. The Cricket Player says his cup is definately full. Everyone knows that Pamela Andersons cups are full. The Defendant says it was like that when he found it. Me, I just ask the waitress for a refill.
Originally posted by EonNachtgot PvP . Well how about accepting or declining the challenge? Simple as that . Player 1 attacks player two . Player two gets a msg . "youv been chllngd accept or decline " than its up to him to do what he wants . The game doesnt explain if its an attack from behind , or not . Thats the surprise factor of your decision . Bah, maybe thieves with high stealing skills would prevent the msg from being sent , but only for the stealing ...
i can see something like this added for duals in areas where there is no PvP.
But
i do not believe this is not a good idea for Open PvP Zones. If you walk into a PvP zone there will be a warning asking you if you would like to enter or not and will explain that you may be killed and lose XP or Items or maybe both. I think if a player decides to walk into this area they except they may die.
Originally posted by JohnnyC wouldn't the nine year olds be equivalent to lvl 9+ ? =P anyway, really forget what i said there.. provided im not going to have uber trouble killing two level ones.. then no probs if you know what i mean.. i trust that you (Draconus) can balance it well enough so a gang of 5 lvl 10's are going to be a challenge for me..atleast
yes johnny...ill make sure a lvl 9 can not completely own a lvl 100 player. In the fight between a lvl 9 and a lvl 100 the lvl 100 player would spank the crap out of the lvl 9...BUT he would have at lest dealt some damage to the lvl 100 before he died.
also the lvls in FreeWorld does not matter 100%. It only counts for half of the damage you can deal in melee combat and the other half is skill. Then there is a large factor of realtime skill needed. So, it is a combo of all 3.
Originally posted by Draconus and as far as everyone saying that the hits are detected 100% by the client.....thats not true in our case
I wasn't saying you did it that way..I was saying that's the way you are going to have to do it:) A true statement.
Look at planetside....If you want those kinds of battles, dozens of people on each side facing off against eachother...You MUST use clientside hit detection. Planetside uses it because of bandwidth issues...And their game STILL isn't playable on a 56k.
For hit detection to work server side you would have to compute the player's position, the velocity of the projectile or melee attack, the enemies position, the direction both players are moving, the direction of the projectiles...Everything. For every single bullet. It's just not possible unless you can afford to run on a Cray Farm. Some other problems of course...server-side hit detection for melee? See EQ for why that never works.
The only way it can be done is to have the client detect when it hits and tell the server.
Hey though at least you are useing the good anti-cheat stuff:)
Originally posted by Xira Hey though at least you are useing the good anti-cheat stuff:)
yeah last phase we had some hackers start to make hacks for the game and i was able to talk them into showing us what they where doing and how they where doing it. I'm not saying the game is 100% hack proff because i honestly don't think anything is.....BUT we have added so much stuff that the hackers that where working with us could no longer could use the hacks they had made and could no longer make any new ones that would work.
there is a lot of other things we will be adding before we go live....but because it will slow down development to have to work around the protections we will wait tell we are almost done to add the other half of the protections that are planed.
i will not go in detail on this subject....its kind of s secret how we did it
Originally posted by geld My ultimate PVP system would have: 1)Real player skills required. 2)No restrictions whatsoever, anyone can attack anyone at anythime. 3)Permadeath 4)Be based on skills, no classes or levels 5)The ability to spare someone, as in not kill them if you defeat them. 6)The ability to record murders (and other crimes) you have witnessed and report them.
1) this is a 100% yes
2) there will be a large amount of areas like this...but no way the whole game
3) no way in hell
4) there are lvl in Freeworld but everything is based of skill and there are NO classes
2) there will be a large amount of areas like this...but no way the whole game
What about servers? Hardcore PvP'ers are not interested in just "zones" where it's open PvP. For it takes away that spice that makes open PvP great.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
What about servers? Hardcore PvP'ers are not interested in just "zones" where it's open PvP. For it takes away that spice that makes open PvP great.
well.....the idea behind FreeWorld PvP is to not need two seperate servers,,,,in reality you will be playing PvP and PvE on two different servers in Two different worlds.....BUT instead of being forced to be in a PvP only server or forced to be on a PvE sever you will be able to cross back and forth between the two and even message from one to the other.
you will be able to start the game on the PvP side and never have to cross over into the PvE world if you dont want too.....and the same for PvE players...they will never need to got PvP world if they dont want to....and for the people that like both....they will be able to cross over
Originally posted by Draconus Originally posted by Xira Hey though at least you are useing the good anti-cheat stuff:)yeah last phase we had some hackers start to make hacks for the game and i was able to talk them into showing us what they where doing and how they where doing it. I'm not saying the game is 100% hack proff because i honestly don't think anything is.....BUT we have added so much stuff that the hackers that where working with us could no longer could use the hacks they had made and could no longer make any new ones that would work. there is a lot of other things we will be adding before we go live....but because it will slow down development to have to work around the protections we will wait tell we are almost done to add the other half of the protections that are planed. i will not go in detail on this subject....its kind of s secret how we did it
I am sure you managed to scare the kiddy hackers away....Doing the same kind of thing I did back in 98 with Mythic's Magestorm. Simply useing a 3rd party program to hex memory values.
I know some people who would laugh at this. (I ain't a hacker, I am a genetic engineer) You can stop the kiddy hackers but there is NO WAY you will ever be able to stop a real hacker who wants to make a buck from your game.
Similarily, why would they hack your beta game? How is it worth their time to hack your beta game when it would be much more profitable to write a new worm to take control of 1000 computers to sell to spam Emailers?
Of course after 'release' it's a diffrent story. It becomes Ebayable. It becomes worth their time. Your game gets hacked.
I am sure you managed to scare the kiddy hackers away....Doing the same kind of thing I did back in 98 with Mythic's Magestorm. Simply useing a 3rd party program to hex memory values. I know some people who would laugh at this. (I ain't a hacker, I am a genetic engineer) You can stop the kiddy hackers but there is NO WAY you will ever be able to stop a real hacker who wants to make a buck from your game. Similarily, why would they hack your beta game? How is it worth their time to hack your beta game when it would be much more profitable to write a new worm to take control of 1000 computers to sell to spam Emailers? Of course after 'release' it's a diffrent story. It becomes Ebayable. It becomes worth their time. Your game gets hacked.
yes i do agree with you....in the end there is no stopping them.
also the guys we found last phase where 90% kiddie hackers and we where able to defend the game from 3rd party hacks and speed hacks (witch was really easy to stop)
there was 1 guy that used to work with us that had came back to play the game and see how it was going. To help me out he spent the time writing hacks to effect the game and was very successful for awhile. I will not go into details of what he was doing But we where able to find work arounds for the kind of hacks he was using also.
the final product will not let the everyday kiddie hacker or even a half way good weekend hacker get in.
but like you said.....the hard core hackers will always find a way if money is involved.
Now lets get back to the topic of PvP
P.S. thanks very much for taken the time to post Xira....i do enjoy reading your posts and ideas
What I think would work would be a system similar to DAOC's, probaly the most successful N.A. game with PVP as a large focus. Perhaps combine it with a system similar to EVE's wherein you COULD attack in town and in pvp-free zones but that it is 100% garuenteed death if you do. ( I would leave out EVE's system of 'incentives' that force players into the PVP zones. )
A good idea to try would be a world wherein anyone can attack anyone else anywhere, but in any nation state that nation state will either immediatly or progressivly send creatures out to kill you. Nation states would be quite large and one or another would 'control' 90% of the places worth being.(Even a dungeon can be 'controlled'. PErhaps the guards wouldn't venture in unless after a specfic person, but they could surround the place outside.)
Whenever you kill someone, if that person is alinged with a nation state, the nation state would send guards out after you. Perhpas if you killed someone in town or such or even attacked they would teleport magical guards in to r0x0r the PK immediatly instead of sending them out from a base. Every time you killed someone you would have another one of these creatures after you. For each person you kill you have sent after you a MOB equal to you level in power that will eventually find and engage you. Have it dissapear when it they log off and reappear when they log back on and contuine tracking them.(I would suggest a straight-line tracking method. If you use zones just run them between the zonelines that connect the paths. Might I suggest drawing an adjancy matrix and useing the simple UGTEO method? Must let them teleport....) If a person kills the same person twice(ever, no decay) or more than 1 person in a given time frame the PK person will have another MOB sent out after them....more powerful than the last. The increase in power level of the MOBs should be farily steep. If you defend yourself you won't have a problem, if you attack others or even pick on one person you'll soon be overwhealmed by huge ass monsters that can kill anything. Use an inverse fractional based on PK number on an exponential system to provide a good curve.
You want PvP to exist and to be a threat but not to overwhealm the game. A garuenteed death system for anyone who pushes it at all beyond the defense level and should quickly be overwhealmed with multiple deaths and their accompanying penalties will work. Perhaps have the penalty for being killed by the guards sent out in this manner be much more severe than normal. This will work because it does not rely on 'player justice', PVPers will have to be dam good PVE players also.
Have realics and forts available between the nation states for capture, in these war zones no penaltieis for PVP would be incurred and these zones would provide the same type of incentives DAOC does, minor bonuses to the realm that has them. Allow their upgrade and the purchase of guards later on. Inside even an enemy realm you would be protected by the laws of that nation and be free to group with anyone you liked.
This is what I belive would be a good PVP system. You effectivly prevent non pvp zone PK with instant death, you don't have to make xX as much content for all x realms, and people who wish to PVP with goals will have that available to them while the rest of the populace can avoid it quite easily.
-Note on exploiters. Use some sort of computer-identifiable tracker, such as the microsoft serial number sent with any newly created file or preferably their MAC address. Only allow a certain number of charecters who have high PK counts. People use up all their PK slots...Suddenly they can't create any more. They either have to play and suffer the conquences of their actions (repeatdly) or leave the game. This would be an effective way to get rid of most of the younger griefers who can't afford to keep buying Windows XP copies to fuel:)
Originally posted by Xira Hmm on the subject of PvP....
What I think would work would be a system similar to DAOC's, probaly the most successful N.A. game with PVP as a large focus. Perhaps combine it with a system similar to EVE's wherein you COULD attack in town and in pvp-free zones but that it is 100% garuenteed death if you do. ( I would leave out EVE's system of 'incentives' that force players into the PVP zones. ) A good idea to try would be a world wherein anyone can attack anyone else anywhere, but in any nation state that nation state will either immediatly or progressivly send creatures out to kill you. Nation states would be quite large and one or another would 'control' 90% of the places worth being.(Even a dungeon can be 'controlled'. PErhaps the guards wouldn't venture in unless after a specfic person, but they could surround the place outside.) Whenever you kill someone, if that person is alinged with a nation state, the nation state would send guards out after you. Perhpas if you killed someone in town or such or even attacked they would teleport magical guards in to r0x0r the PK immediatly instead of sending them out from a base. Every time you killed someone you would have another one of these creatures after you. For each person you kill you have sent after you a MOB equal to you level in power that will eventually find and engage you. Have it dissapear when it they log off and reappear when they log back on and contuine tracking them.(I would suggest a straight-line tracking method. If you use zones just run them between the zonelines that connect the paths. Might I suggest drawing an adjancy matrix and useing the simple UGTEO method? Must let them teleport....) If a person kills the same person twice(ever, no decay) or more than 1 person in a given time frame the PK person will have another MOB sent out after them....more powerful than the last. The increase in power level of the MOBs should be farily steep. If you defend yourself you won't have a problem, if you attack others or even pick on one person you'll soon be overwhealmed by huge ass monsters that can kill anything. Use an inverse fractional based on PK number on an exponential system to provide a good curve.
You want PvP to exist and to be a threat but not to overwhealm the game. A garuenteed death system for anyone who pushes it at all beyond the defense level and should quickly be overwhealmed with multiple deaths and their accompanying penalties will work. Perhaps have the penalty for being killed by the guards sent out in this manner be much more severe than normal. This will work because it does not rely on 'player justice', PVPers will have to be dam good PVE players also. Have realics and forts available between the nation states for capture, in these war zones no penaltieis for PVP would be incurred and these zones would provide the same type of incentives DAOC does, minor bonuses to the realm that has them. Allow their upgrade and the purchase of guards later on. Inside even an enemy realm you would be protected by the laws of that nation and be free to group with anyone you liked.
This is what I belive would be a good PVP system. You effectivly prevent non pvp zone PK with instant death, you don't have to make xX as much content for all x realms, and people who wish to PVP with goals will have that available to them while the rest of the populace can avoid it quite easily.
-Note on exploiters. Use some sort of computer-identifiable tracker, such as the microsoft serial number sent with any newly created file or preferably their MAC address. Only allow a certain number of charecters who have high PK counts. People use up all their PK slots...Suddenly they can't create any more. They either have to play and suffer the conquences of their actions (repeatdly) or leave the game. This would be an effective way to get rid of most of the younger griefers who can't afford to keep buying Windows XP copies to fuel:)
these are some very very nice ideas.....but FreeWorld will not have open PvP everywhere. It is something we talked a lot about and its just not a good idea, there are to many draw backs and WAY to much code involved to make sure they non-PvP player dont get owned.
This is my idea for PvP, already posted it but I wanted to post it here too. Well here it is.
Say there is several kindoms, any race could go to any aliance and swear aleagence to that kindom. Each kingdom would have there own town, and they all would be neutral to eachother.
Now lets say you were an allied member of a certain kingdom, and you go kill someone of another aliance, from doing that you automatically loose faction for his/her kingdom, and you are flagged for PvP for a certain amount of time. Well the more you kill someone of that kingdom the more faction you get in your kingdom, so your town will start to like you for supporting them.
The more you kill someone of that alliance, the more faction you loose and there town will hate you/ kill you on sight. Once you kill enough of that kingdom, you will be flagged for PvP to that aliance no matter what, but at the same time you are gaining faction in your own kingdom. This system would make huge rivalry guilds and would make it much more fun/difficult to PvP, you would get your incentives, and disencentives.
Originally posted by 9216544 This is my idea for PvP, already posted it but I wanted to post it here too. Well here it is. Say there is several kindoms, any race could go to any aliance and swear aleagence to that kindom. Each kingdom would have there own town, and they all would be neutral to eachother. Now lets say you were an allied member of a certain kingdom, and you go kill someone of another aliance, from doing that you automatically loose faction for his/her kingdom, and you are flagged for PvP for a certain amount of time. Well the more you kill someone of that kingdom the more faction you get in your kingdom, so your town will start to like you for supporting them. The more you kill someone of that alliance, the more faction you loose and there town will hate you/ kill you on sight. Once you kill enough of that kingdom, you will be flagged for PvP to that aliance no matter what, but at the same time you are gaining faction in your own kingdom. This system would make huge rivalry guilds and would make it much more fun/difficult to PvP, you would get your incentives, and disencentives.
i do like the idea of Faction in PvP a lot. I'm not to sure about the kingdom thing, But it would be nice to add to guilds. Instead of having a guild declare war on a guild it could be determined by there faction instead. When ever a guild member kills a member from a different guild there faction would drop and when it is to low they are at war and you get extra XP for killing the other members.
ya I agree, the kingdoms wouldnt work probably. But I think this system could add a whole new system to PvP. It would make it more difficult, and more competetive. Each guild could have its own faction, and then you are neutral to all guilds unless you kill them. There could be alliances that when you kill enemie guild member, you will gain faction in your alliance. Some how this could add to the guilds popularity in towns or something. Kinda like the EQ2 prestige system, as far as faction in guilds.
Originally posted by 9216544 ya I agree, the kingdoms wouldnt work probably. But I think this system could add a whole new system to PvP. It would make it more difficult, and more competetive. Each guild could have its own faction, and then you are neutral to all guilds unless you kill them. There could be alliances that when you kill enemie guild member, you will gain faction in your alliance. Some how this could add to the guilds popularity in towns or something. Kinda like the EQ2 prestige system, as far as faction in guilds. EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
ill tell you this im adding the notes for this idea to our team section right now.....i think its a very cool idea indead
haha cool. I really am starting to like this idea.. PvP in most games today seem to copy eachother, and they just end up being the same. It would be nice to see a whole fresh new system for PvP.
here was some other PvP ideas posted by one of our testers TriMoon....i have posted them here for discussion.
Createing a guild: To create a guild i think it should require a team effort quest with a set amount of participants on top of the krona. This is to restrict million one man guilds... To start the quest all participants should be guildless. The one starting the quest will become the GM of the new guild. The quest can only be started when all participants have joined the quest request. When the quest starts all participants will be moved to the quest map. Quest wil continue until goal is reached or any participant dies or loggs-off or quest timer expires.
Crest: This is a nice paperdolling addition to quickly and visualy distinguess guild members. It should however also have selectable textureing.
Abrev: I dont think an abrivation is quite as effective as the guildname it self.
War Declaring: I think it should have a set max period to answer a war proposal. If declined a fine should be payed to the declaring guild by the guild declining. Like a payoff. And yes a timer is definitly needed to re-declare by same guild. The timer however is not for the other party. If both have declared war on each other then both will still have the timer running...
Extra housing / addons to guild: I think its best if these all need quests tobe done by the guild as a team effort. Plus cost krona.
Allies in war: Allies should also get benifit for helping, this will encourage them to help. Allies will be formed when a guild joins in the war to help one guild. Only at that time the allied guild is also in war with the opposing guild. This will allow dynamic allieances.
Occupied Areas: Instead of a stat advantage, i think would be beter if guild members get more goods/krona from monster drops. And lower buy prices at the NPC's in that area. Plus a percentage of the trade made by other non guild members, like a tax income. And ofcourse to obtain "Lordship" of an area there should be a battle done with the monsters in that area, at some "HellSpawn" rate... This will simulate a war declaration between the guild and the monsters in that area making some areas more difficult to obtain as others. Only one guild can have "Lordship" at any time.
overtaking Occupied Areas: Same rules as for a fresh area plus the need to defeat the guild with "Lordship" of that area. Rules for War declarations will be in effect also.
Guild castle access: These should be freely placable by the GM of the guild in any area. But not free/easy to obtain. These will also act as interfaces to join the guild for non guild members.
why in any game isnt something new what fight together, and why in any game you dont get XP in PvP ?
respect that, respect that game, is it free?
`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.· `·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.·`·.¸¸.·´´¯`··._.· You Choose, but if you say like that to your friend you dont. Got it?
why theres no monsters and cantinas where you can chat in Space MMORPG's?
Comments
wouldn't the nine year olds be equivalent to lvl 9+ ? =P anyway, really forget what i said there.. provided im not going to have uber trouble killing two level ones.. then no probs if you know what i mean.. i trust that you (Draconus) can balance it well enough so a gang of 5 lvl 10's are going to be a challenge for me..atleast
again i think drop the level system!
the other thing is im a COMPLETE soloist/griefer.. i don't fight alongside anyone unless they ask me "can i tag along" or are part of my guild and all.. but 90% of the time you will see me out hunting/killing by myself aswell as griefing people into attacking me =P
the other thing is.. make zones.. towns/guarded areas.. like noob zones where it is completly no pvp or for guarded areas make it INCREDIBLY hard for a lvl 100 to walk on in trying to kill some lvl 1's without getting guard smacked
then you want your major lvling areas.. try make these able to pvp in.. so if you want to level hardcore you have to be able to defend yourself aswell as kill mobs
and just anywhere someone needs to go e.g. quests and all people may have to fight their way along... past pks..
..ok il just reply to the thread , because i dont have the time to read , where the discussion has gone.
PvP . Well how about accepting or declining the challenge? Simple as that .
Player 1 attacks player two .
Player two gets a msg . "youv been chllngd accept or decline " than its up to him to do what he wants . The game doesnt explain if its an attack from behind , or not . Thats the surprise factor of your decision .
Bah, maybe thieves with high stealing skills would prevent the msg from being sent , but only for the stealing ...
...
"Neon Light" Eon Night
-----------------------------
"Neon Light" Eon Night
As some things can be right and useless, can't some things be wrong and priceless? -Viktor Suikoden I
My ultimate PVP system would have:
1)Real player skills required.
2)No restrictions whatsoever, anyone can attack anyone at anythime.
3)Permadeath
4)Be based on skills, no classes or levels
5)The ability to spare someone, as in not kill them if you defeat them.
6)The ability to record murders (and other crimes) you have witnessed and report them.
*Signature*The Pessimist says the cup is half empty. The Optimist says the cup is half full. The Pragmatist says the cup is half full of air. The Engineer says the cup is operating at 50% capacity. The Psychologist says the cup is your mother. The Punk Kid also says the cup is your mother. The Cricket Player says his cup is definately full. Everyone knows that Pamela Andersons cups are full. The Defendant says it was like that when he found it. Me, I just ask the waitress for a refill.
i can see something like this added for duals in areas where there is no PvP.
But
i do not believe this is not a good idea for Open PvP Zones. If you walk into a PvP zone there will be a warning asking you if you would like to enter or not and will explain that you may be killed and lose XP or Items or maybe both. I think if a player decides to walk into this area they except they may die.
yes johnny...ill make sure a lvl 9 can not completely own a lvl 100 player. In the fight between a lvl 9 and a lvl 100 the lvl 100 player would spank the crap out of the lvl 9...BUT he would have at lest dealt some damage to the lvl 100 before he died.
also the lvls in FreeWorld does not matter 100%. It only counts for half of the damage you can deal in melee combat and the other half is skill. Then there is a large factor of realtime skill needed. So, it is a combo of all 3.
Yo i dont know what u guys are talking about but Hey wats up and freeworld Rocks :P
Why do u guys post it so much
LoL But i guess its awesome so yeah
Any wolfenstein players in the house?
I wasn't saying you did it that way..I was saying that's the way you are going to have to do it:) A true statement.
Look at planetside....If you want those kinds of battles, dozens of people on each side facing off against eachother...You MUST use clientside hit detection. Planetside uses it because of bandwidth issues...And their game STILL isn't playable on a 56k.
For hit detection to work server side you would have to compute the player's position, the velocity of the projectile or melee attack, the enemies position, the direction both players are moving, the direction of the projectiles...Everything. For every single bullet. It's just not possible unless you can afford to run on a Cray Farm. Some other problems of course...server-side hit detection for melee? See EQ for why that never works.
The only way it can be done is to have the client detect when it hits and tell the server.
Hey though at least you are useing the good anti-cheat stuff:)
yeah
there is a lot of other things we will be adding before we go live....but because it will slow down development to have to work around the protections we will wait tell we are almost done to add the other half of the protections that are planed.
i will not go in detail on this subject....its kind of s secret how we did it
1) this is a 100% yes
2) there will be a large amount of areas like this...but no way the whole game
3) no way in hell
4) there are lvl in Freeworld but everything is based of skill and there are NO classes
5) i like this idea a lot
6) im not sure about this one
2) there will be a large amount of areas like this...but no way the whole game
What about servers? Hardcore PvP'ers are not interested in just "zones" where it's open PvP. For it takes away that spice that makes open PvP great.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
well.....the idea behind FreeWorld PvP is to not need two seperate servers,,,,in reality you will be playing PvP and PvE on two different servers in Two different worlds.....BUT instead of being forced to be in a PvP only server or forced to be on a PvE sever you will be able to cross back and forth between the two and even message from one to the other.
you will be able to start the game on the PvP side and never have to cross over into the PvE world if you dont want too.....and the same for PvE players...they will never need to got PvP world if they dont want to....and for the people that like both....they will be able to cross over
its the best of both worlds in one place
I am sure you managed to scare the kiddy hackers away....Doing the same kind of thing I did back in 98 with Mythic's Magestorm. Simply useing a 3rd party program to hex memory values.
I know some people who would laugh at this. (I ain't a hacker, I am a genetic engineer)
You can stop the kiddy hackers but there is NO WAY you will ever be able to stop a real hacker who wants to make a buck from your game.
Similarily, why would they hack your beta game? How is it worth their time to hack your beta game when it would be much more profitable to write a new worm to take control of 1000 computers to sell to spam Emailers?
Of course after 'release' it's a diffrent story. It becomes Ebayable. It becomes worth their time. Your game gets hacked.
yes i do agree with you....in the end there is no stopping them.
also the guys we found last phase where 90% kiddie hackers and we where able to defend the game from 3rd party hacks and speed hacks (witch was really easy to stop)
there was 1 guy that used to work with us that had came back to play the game and see how it was going. To help me out he spent the time writing hacks to effect the game and was very successful for awhile. I will not go into details of what he was doing But we where able to find work arounds for the kind of hacks he was using also.
the final product will not let the everyday kiddie hacker or even a half way good weekend hacker get in.
but like you said.....the hard core hackers will always find a way if money is involved.
Now lets get back to the topic of PvP
P.S. thanks very much for taken the time to post Xira....i do enjoy reading your posts and ideas
Hmm on the subject of PvP....
What I think would work would be a system similar to DAOC's, probaly the most successful N.A. game with PVP as a large focus. Perhaps combine it with a system similar to EVE's wherein you COULD attack in town and in pvp-free zones but that it is 100% garuenteed death if you do. ( I would leave out EVE's system of 'incentives' that force players into the PVP zones. )
A good idea to try would be a world wherein anyone can attack anyone else anywhere, but in any nation state that nation state will either immediatly or progressivly send creatures out to kill you. Nation states would be quite large and one or another would 'control' 90% of the places worth being.(Even a dungeon can be 'controlled'. PErhaps the guards wouldn't venture in unless after a specfic person, but they could surround the place outside.)
Whenever you kill someone, if that person is alinged with a nation state, the nation state would send guards out after you. Perhpas if you killed someone in town or such or even attacked they would teleport magical guards in to r0x0r the PK immediatly instead of sending them out from a base. Every time you killed someone you would have another one of these creatures after you. For each person you kill you have sent after you a MOB equal to you level in power that will eventually find and engage you. Have it dissapear when it they log off and reappear when they log back on and contuine tracking them.(I would suggest a straight-line tracking method. If you use zones just run them between the zonelines that connect the paths. Might I suggest drawing an adjancy matrix and useing the simple UGTEO method? Must let them teleport....) If a person kills the same person twice(ever, no decay) or more than 1 person in a given time frame the PK person will have another MOB sent out after them....more powerful than the last. The increase in power level of the MOBs should be farily steep. If you defend yourself you won't have a problem, if you attack others or even pick on one person you'll soon be overwhealmed by huge ass monsters that can kill anything. Use an inverse fractional based on PK number on an exponential system to provide a good curve.
You want PvP to exist and to be a threat but not to overwhealm the game. A garuenteed death system for anyone who pushes it at all beyond the defense level and should quickly be overwhealmed with multiple deaths and their accompanying penalties will work. Perhaps have the penalty for being killed by the guards sent out in this manner be much more severe than normal. This will work because it does not rely on 'player justice', PVPers will have to be dam good PVE players also.
Have realics and forts available between the nation states for capture, in these war zones no penaltieis for PVP would be incurred and these zones would provide the same type of incentives DAOC does, minor bonuses to the realm that has them. Allow their upgrade and the purchase of guards later on. Inside even an enemy realm you would be protected by the laws of that nation and be free to group with anyone you liked.
This is what I belive would be a good PVP system. You effectivly prevent non pvp zone PK with instant death, you don't have to make xX as much content for all x realms, and people who wish to PVP with goals will have that available to them while the rest of the populace can avoid it quite easily.
-Note on exploiters. Use some sort of computer-identifiable tracker, such as the microsoft serial number sent with any newly created file or preferably their MAC address. Only allow a certain number of charecters who have high PK counts. People use up all their PK slots...Suddenly they can't create any more. They either have to play and suffer the conquences of their actions (repeatdly) or leave the game. This would be an effective way to get rid of most of the younger griefers who can't afford to keep buying Windows XP copies to fuel:)
Xira..i read over some of your ideas really fast but im on my way out the door...ill make sure to come back and comment in a few hours
thanks for the post.
This is my idea for PvP, already posted it but I wanted to post it here too. Well here it is.
Say there is several kindoms, any race could go to any aliance and swear aleagence to that kindom. Each kingdom would have there own town, and they all would be neutral to eachother.
Now lets say you were an allied member of a certain kingdom, and you go kill someone of another aliance, from doing that you automatically loose faction for his/her kingdom, and you are flagged for PvP for a certain amount of time. Well the more you kill someone of that kingdom the more faction you get in your kingdom, so your town will start to like you for supporting them.
The more you kill someone of that alliance, the more faction you loose and there town will hate you/ kill you on sight. Once you kill enough of that kingdom, you will be flagged for PvP to that aliance no matter what, but at the same time you are gaining faction in your own kingdom. This system would make huge rivalry guilds and would make it much more fun/difficult to PvP, you would get your incentives, and disencentives.
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
ya I agree, the kingdoms wouldnt work probably. But I think this system could add a whole new system to PvP. It would make it more difficult, and more competetive. Each guild could have its own faction, and then you are neutral to all guilds unless you kill them. There could be alliances that when you kill enemie guild member, you will gain faction in your alliance. Some how this could add to the guilds popularity in towns or something. Kinda like the EQ2 prestige system, as far as faction in guilds.
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
ill tell you this
im adding the notes for this idea to our team section right now.....i think its a very cool idea indead 
haha cool. I really am starting to like this idea.. PvP in most games today seem to copy eachother, and they just end up being the same. It would be nice to see a whole fresh new system for PvP.
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
here was some other PvP ideas posted by one of our testers TriMoon....i have posted them here for discussion.
To create a guild i think it should require a team effort quest with a set amount of participants on top of the krona.
This is to restrict million one man guilds...
To start the quest all participants should be guildless.
The one starting the quest will become the GM of the new guild.
The quest can only be started when all participants have joined the quest request.
When the quest starts all participants will be moved to the quest map.
Quest wil continue until goal is reached or any participant dies or loggs-off or quest timer expires.
This is a nice paperdolling addition to quickly and visualy distinguess guild members.
It should however also have selectable textureing.
I dont think an abrivation is quite as effective as the guildname it self.
I think it should have a set max period to answer a war proposal.
If declined a fine should be payed to the declaring guild by the guild declining. Like a payoff.
And yes a timer is definitly needed to re-declare by same guild.
The timer however is not for the other party.
If both have declared war on each other then both will still have the timer running...
I think its best if these all need quests tobe done by the guild as a team effort. Plus cost krona.
Allies should also get benifit for helping, this will encourage them to help.
Allies will be formed when a guild joins in the war to help one guild.
Only at that time the allied guild is also in war with the opposing guild.
This will allow dynamic allieances.
Instead of a stat advantage, i think would be beter if guild members get more goods/krona from monster drops.
And lower buy prices at the NPC's in that area.
Plus a percentage of the trade made by other non guild members, like a tax income.
And ofcourse to obtain "Lordship" of an area there should be a battle done with the monsters in that area, at some "HellSpawn" rate...
This will simulate a war declaration between the guild and the monsters in that area making some areas more difficult to obtain as others.
Only one guild can have "Lordship" at any time.
Same rules as for a fresh area plus the need to defeat the guild with "Lordship" of that area.
Rules for War declarations will be in effect also.
These should be freely placable by the GM of the guild in any area.
But not free/easy to obtain.
These will also act as interfaces to join the guild for non guild members.
please post all comments on this set of ideas
why in any game isnt something new what fight together, and why in any game you dont get XP in PvP ?
respect that, respect that game, is it free?
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You Choose, but if you say like that to your friend you dont. Got it?
why theres no monsters and cantinas where you can chat in Space MMORPG's?