AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
Liberals, or conservatives, any kind of restrictions and policies go against our personal freedom. We don't need to have government to protect our children from M+ rating games, we should be the one bearing responsibility.
More right wing fanatics trying to impose their morals on everyone else. What's new?
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
Liberals, or conservatives, any kind of restrictions and policies go against our personal freedom. We don't need to have government to protect our children from M+ rating games, we should be the one bearing responsibility.
Excellent point and well said.
I'm glad people are discussing it honestly.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design.
2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games.
3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum.
As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them.
4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions.
5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand...
If it would have been a guy and a girl in the game noone would ever have complained.
If it would have been a girl and a girl, a few people would have complained.
If it is a guy and a guy, it's the end of the world according to a bunch of people.
You buy a adult game. You flirt in the game on purpose because you want to with other characters. You invite on purpose the mentioned character to have sex with your character. And then you see a scene hinting that those two characters had sex. A scene that is no worse than any underwear advertisment seen anywhere for anyone at all ages at all times. And then you are suddenly surprised and angry and astonished and think that such a thing could happen is horrible.
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design. 2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games. 3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum. As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them. 4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions. 5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand...
I think it takes a certain bit of intelligence to properly execute being a hypocrite. So, no conservative to me is seen as a neanderthal, more or less sexually repressed and very confused individuals comes to mind more oft than not. I think Mike Huckabee's a very intelligent man, but man he's a raging homo.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
More right wing fanatics trying to impose their morals on everyone else. What's new?
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
Not exactly.
Baldur's Gate 2 has it.
What changed from BG2 to DA is that now you have a gay option.
Techincally there is no explicit sexual content in both games.
If it would have been a guy and a girl in the game noone would ever have complained.
If it would have been a girl and a girl, a few people would have complained.
If it is a guy and a guy, it's the end of the world according to a bunch of people. You buy a adult game. You flirt in the game on purpose because you want to with other characters. You invite on purpose the mentioned character to have sex with your character. And then you see a scene hinting that those two characters had sex. A scene that is no worse than any underwear advertisment seen anywhere for anyone at all ages at all times. And then you are suddenly surprised and angry and astonished and think that such a thing could happen is horrible. oO
I personally LOVE how long it took for the holier than thou bloggers to get wind of it.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design. 2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games. 3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum. As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them. 4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions. 5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand...
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
Not exactly.
Baldur's Gate 2 has it.
What changed from BG2 to DA is that now you have a gay option.
Techincally there is no explicit sexual content in both games.
...
And Custer's Revenge. Wiki it.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I don't think I'd call it a controversey, given how long the game has been out and I've heard no news reports on it anywhere or seen any people in the streets with signs.
That being said anyone that cares about what pixels do, or what other people do (when it doesn't hurt anyone else) is pathetic.
People who hate someone or are offended by someone due to: sexual orientation, race, gender, religion etc. are pathetic.
Someone who is offended by any game someone plays, show/movie someone watches, or book someone reads, is pathetic.
People have a right to live their lives the way they want. People have the right to produce legal products they want to produce. Anyone that cares what other legal things someone is doing....... are pathetic.
I'm tired of our world, and especially America, being so ridiculous and idiotic over issues. It's like most of society has the maturity level of an eleven year old.
I remember there was a brothel and a couple of sex scenes in Planescape Torment as well. Noone complained at that time and it's nowadays considered by one of the best games of all time.
Something I left out of the article, but perhaps will bring it back around (this is not about liberals vs. conservatives!)... The absolute and hilarious irony is that this is a group that applies pressure to retail outlets and consumers to get them to pull/not buy products. If they run a campaign against Dragon Age they're doing it because there is optional gay sex with clothes on in a video game rated M and locked behind a glass wall. Simultaneously, there are dozens of movies and TV shows about 10 feet away in every Wal-Mart on Earth that are not locked in cupboard, that show much worse, much more and if you throw them in the DVD player it very much isn't optional.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
I label that says sexual content is in no way sufficient for this but yeah I see your point and I dont think the game should be pulled from the shelves.
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
The greatest fantasy works ever made, such as Tolkiens works, Dungeons of Dragons, Warhammer and so on has no or very little explicit sexual content. Heck even Conan, which has tons of references to sex and prostitutes, has almost no explicit sexual content. That is not what fantasy is about, or atleast not up unttil now.
And dont mix sexual values into this, I have no problems with pre-marital sex (I do it alot myself ). However sometimes I want to just play a game and not be exposed to sexual content, at all.
Well, I don't know what you mean by explicit. I seem to remember some very, very baudy pictures in my old Dungeons and Dragon's game books. Pictures that made me say "heck yeah I wanna save the princess if she looks like that!
Anyway, if you mean explicit in that they're is nudity of genitalia and actual footage of intercourse, then no, that's not in DA. At best it's like a B movies you'd see on USA "Up all Night" back in the day. Basically equates to a girl in a bikini and a guy in briefs and lots of up close flash cut shots. Though I want to say there was a facial expression shot of the "moment", but it looked ridiculous and comical more than believable.
Again, I'd argue that sex has played a significant role in fantasy stories. It may not have been spelled out in detail, but it has been a motivator. Conan in his search for Valeria, countless heroes and villians in D&D over the years. Tolkien, eh, not so much. Though I do seem to remember that Sam had a crush on a young hobbit and they later married and had children.
You may not expect sex in RPGs. That's cool. But don't be surprised either. Socially we're past that point, unless you've been holed up in a cave for the last 20 years or so.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design. 2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games. 3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum. As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them. 4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions. 5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand...
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
Dana started it, the cheeky devil.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work.
Have you ever read Children of Hurin? It has incest, although the brother and sister did not know they were related. As you stated Tolkien did not have explicit sexual content. I'm not sure you're correct on his having issues with human desire. He was married and had children. I thought the lack of explicit sexual content has more to do with his morals and the time that he wrote his books.
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design. 2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games. 3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum. As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them. 4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions. 5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand...
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
Dana started it, the cheeky devil.
Same logic as before. It's an RPG and this could just as easily have been an issue in an MMO. Heck, maybe it will be in an issue come SWTOR time
Plus, Scott had something come up and I had to fill space! :P
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I consider Worldnetdaily a very good website exposing government corruption and its failures in all its forms. The article does not surprise me as they are a Christian website. They are only writing articles based how thir political and religious view. Whether we like it or not, agree or disagree they have a right to print it or put it on the web. Parents and Adults must make the choice themselves of what games they play and what they expose to themselves or thier children. Bottom Line. I own Dragon Age origins and i dont play it in front of my 8 year old. (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises plunger to joesph Farrah for exposing goverment corruption!)
Just so long as there is a democrat in the white house... Other wise W"N"D is rather more reserved in its investigations. Dragon Age was bound to get the fundies in a hysterical fit, which I suspect was one of the reasons for some of this coverage.
In a perfect world, video game designers would focus on the quality of their game without having to worry about losing valuable profit because a bunch of socially conservative activists might get offended at some minute element of a game neither they nor their own children would ever even think of playing and create an overblown public uproar to frighten large distributers into not selling the game (despite its full legality and already adult rating) for fear of being sued by some soccer mom who would rather blame little Billy's psychopathic behavior on that game they blindly bought him last Christmas rather than, say, the fact that they yell at him every time he tries to form a coherent independent opinion.
Well let me see Dragon Age Origins this looks like a fun game...but wait it says Mature 17+ content rated by the ESRB, um let me flip the game and look at the back of the box and see why its rated M. (flip box over) Look in the bottom right hand corner of the box a big giant M and it says blood, intense violence, language, partial nudity, and wait what is that last one say SEXUAL CONTENT. Right from that point WND you should have know there was going to be something you dont like about this game...oh wait....your basing your opion off a YouTube video. If you would have played game you could have so many other things to complain about but no you just watched one video and flipped the hell out. My advice to you WND get a grip there are bigger problems in this world then what happens in a video game. And one last thing WND the game is AWESOME. Thats all for now bye bye.
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work. Have you ever read Children of Hurin? It has incest, although the brother and sister did not know they were related. As you stated Tolkien did not have explicit sexual content. I'm not sure you're correct on his having issues with human desire. He was married and had children. I thought the lack of explicit sexual content has more to do with his morals and the time that he wrote his books.
It is an interesting subject Tolroc, I am not sure I can find some source for you now. But there are a couple of letters from Tolkien to his son that gives a good example about his view on desire and its destructive side. Not judging his personal view of course but this detail somehow explain some aspects in his work.
I did not read Children of Hurin it seems to be interesting I will look for it.
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work. Have you ever read Children of Hurin? It has incest, although the brother and sister did not know they were related. As you stated Tolkien did not have explicit sexual content. I'm not sure you're correct on his having issues with human desire. He was married and had children. I thought the lack of explicit sexual content has more to do with his morals and the time that he wrote his books.
It is an interesting subject Tolroc, I am not sure I can find some source for you now. But there are a couple of letters from Tolkien to his son that gives a good example about his view on desire and its destructive side. Not judging his personal view of course but this detail somehow explain some aspects in his work.
I did not read Children of Hurin it seems to be interesting I will look for it.
Isn't Children of Hurin the one his son assembled from his notes?
If so, it's possible that's why it's the one example of it in the guy's works.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
As I find this topic endlessly entertaining, I can't pass up a chance to add in my personal $0.02...
One thing I find particularly interesting is the general correlation between the hype/publicity of a game and the degree of public outcry over "controversial" content. Sex and extreme violence are hardly new things in video games. DA:O is hardly the first game to include sexual interactions between characters. Nor is it even the first RPG to have such. It is however one of the first to recieve this degree of media coverage for this inclusion (with the possible exception of GTAIII). To give a brief rundown of past games with as much, if not more sexual content as DA:O
Leisure Suit Larry series: Any older gamer out there probably remembers this series, based entirely around the attempts of one of the worlds biggest losers to get laid. While there was never any explicit nudity or sex, it was very heavily implied.
The Witcher: A newer game, and an action RPG to boot, there was essentially a side quest/mini game which involved having the main character have sex with as many of the female characters in the game as possible. Each time you had sex with a new character, you got a nude (in the original European version) photo in collectible card form.
Fallout 3: Not much explicit sex in this one, but similar to Oblivion a number of nudity mods were created by the community, along with a very popular mod which added random rape victims to the wastes. The game does have a number of romantic interactions possible with certain NPC's as well as some random prostitutes you could "rent".
Fable: In Fable it was possible to attempt relations with pretty much every single female in the game (and potentially males as well, but not 100% on that one). While the actual act of sex was glossed over (as it always is), it was not obfuscated in any way (you knew that your character was having sex even if it wasn't shown)
GTAIII: Umm, health replenishing prostitutes anyone?
Knights of Xentar: This was an older Hentai RPG I ran across back in the day. Absolutely hilarious story about a knight raised by a diaper cleaning service. Through the course of the game, one of the major objects was to get each of the major female NPC's to get naked and have sex with you.
Pretty much all past Bioware RPG's: Pretty much every RPG developed by Bioware (most notably Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, NWN, NWNII, and Planescape) had romantic possibilities for the main character. In the past, I believe that these have been limited to hetero couplings, but time brings progress...
Now for a few games for which I cannot recall names, but whose entire purpose for existing was... lets call it sexual simulation...
Waaayyy back in the days of the BBS's, there was a mixed text/ASCII graphics multiplayer game where your character wandered around an adult themed theme park picking up random sex toys which you used to convince other players/NPC's to have sex with you (gay, lesbian, or straight). When you finally broke down another characters resistance to your advances, you were treated to an animated ASCII of the particular sex act you were after.
SexVilla: This is a collection (sort of) of different sexual simulations. The basic premise is that you pick a couple of actors (single female, two females, male/female couple, threesome), and a setting, then you get to direct them in whatever manner you choose. An enormous number of sex toys were included (some fairly disturbing ones too like the lit cigar, cucumber, whips, riding crops, etc...). There have also been versions of the game released which had very much anime/hentai inspired actors including demons and the penultimate Hentai tentacle penis monsters.
Last but not least: There is a whole subset of Japenese somewhat Hentai inspired games similar in gameplay to the aforementioned SexVilla games, but where the goal is not to direct random actors to have sex, but rather to have your main character rape various young women in a number of scenarios (on the train, in a bathroom, etc...). Honestly one of the most disturbing pieces of gaming I have ever run across in my 25 years of computer gaming. However, when you really think about it objectively, it's not much worse than a game like Manhunt or the Hitman games which are based around executing other people in the most disturbing methods imaginable. Now I don't want to start an argument here on the relative merits of rape and execution here, but I personally put them on approximately the same level of deviation. Both involve the forceful violation of the most basic human rights to life and freedom. Rape has much longer lived repercussions for the victim than does execution of course, but it's arguable that both involve the death of some part of the individual (one the body, the other the spirit).
Anywho, I think I've ranted long enough for one day. No real point here other than that sex has been included in games, both RPG and others since long before DA:O was even an idea in the developers heads. It has been included in far more explicit and offensive forms than implicit gay sex as well. The only particularly innovative feature of sex in DA:O is the higher media profile of the game, and the wider audience which it is reaching.
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever. However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats. Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex in a second grade comercial computer game? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right? And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships. And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it. Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
Well, there actually is sexuality woven within the lines of shakespear plays. A lot of innuendo and small comments here and there. And the sonnets are equally about a "dark woman" and a Man so there is the possibility of interacial love and homosexuality. Depending on what Dark Woman meant and depending on whose voice the sonnets are written from.
Look, as someone who has acted and who has worked with actors, I have to say that from what I've read and experienced, actors haven't really changed all that much since shakespeare's time. And many of them will do anything if they like the part. Heck, there was a time when a local playwrite wrote a lesbian scene and asked one particular actress to be in it. She approached me and said she would be in the play and do the scene but only if I was director. So actors and actresses in many cases can warm up to a part no matter what it is if it intrigues them.
But you bring about a great point which I think some people are overlooking. The idea that sexuality is a very private thing for everyone. Even those who like to engage it in public. : )
Just because a person doesn't want to see sexuality in movies, games, public places doesn't make them a prude.
To that end, I only like sexuality in movies, games, literature when done well. If it is done well then bring it on and in buckets! But I have always found it a bit tacky to watch people making out in public. Heck, I own porn both arty and not so arty,. I own erotic literature. My female characters in DA went straight for leliana (pun intended).
But do I want to walk down the street and see pictures of people copulating or turn on the television and see breasts everywhere? Certainly not.
What I think is important is choice.
I have no problems with games, movies with any type of sexuality as long as I know beforehand. Now, some writer/directtor/person might say that the discovery of that sexuality is really what makes the inclusion important but I say that that is using sex as a gimmick. And I'm for using sex as a gimmick but only if everyone is on board with that.
Movies and literature have sexuality. And as above, shakespeare does have quite a bit of sexuality laced within his lines.And Mozart wrote some extremely filthy songs (for the time). Sometimes when my Uncle waxes nostalgic about one composer or another I sometimes smile and know that he would be beside himself if he knew that one was a homosexual and another was a raving bigot.
People should always have the right to choose. If a person doesn't want to see sexuality that makes him/her no less than those who want to sprinkle their cereal with it. We all don't perceive things the same way.
And sometimes that choice is just not seeing/hearing/playing the subject in question. I say a person should do their research and know what they are getting yourself into.
If an individual knows that he/she is more easily offended then it is up to him/her to make sure that they know what they are watching. If dev is going to include the possibility of controversial material then perhaps it should be made known so that everybody involved is on the same page.
After all, getting along is not saying to some other faction that you have to accept what I believe no matter what. It's more about saying "hey, as long as you dont' persecute me for what I believe I won't shove it in your face".
If people want respect they have to give respect.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Homosexuality, multiple-partner sex, bestiality, and adultery are all forms of sexual deviance that are morally wrong in almost every culture. Protesting against blatant sexual deviance is not homophobia. However protesting against sexual deviance in a game where the object is to run around killing people is a bit absurd.
First of all to claim deviance you have to accept that there is a norm that is being deviated from. And you just can't do that. People all over the world throughout all times have done different things to get off. The idea that a sexual behavior is deviant is false.
Those things are not morally wrong in every culture. I understand that since you think those things are deviant, you also think that 'right-thinking' people all over the world agree with you, but its just not the case.
Now lets assume for the sake of argument that there is a sexual norm, and the things you listed do indeed deviate from that norm. That still doesn't mean those things are wrong, or morally wrong. Different doesn't mean wrong. Also you can't show any harm, so protesting against gay people IS homophobia.
Comments
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
Liberals, or conservatives, any kind of restrictions and policies go against our personal freedom. We don't need to have government to protect our children from M+ rating games, we should be the one bearing responsibility.
REALITY CHECK
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
Liberals, or conservatives, any kind of restrictions and policies go against our personal freedom. We don't need to have government to protect our children from M+ rating games, we should be the one bearing responsibility.
Excellent point and well said.
I'm glad people are discussing it honestly.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design.
2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games.
3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum.
As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them.
4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions.
5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand...
If it would have been a guy and a girl in the game noone would ever have complained.
If it would have been a girl and a girl, a few people would have complained.
If it is a guy and a guy, it's the end of the world according to a bunch of people.
You buy a adult game. You flirt in the game on purpose because you want to with other characters. You invite on purpose the mentioned character to have sex with your character. And then you see a scene hinting that those two characters had sex. A scene that is no worse than any underwear advertisment seen anywhere for anyone at all ages at all times. And then you are suddenly surprised and angry and astonished and think that such a thing could happen is horrible.
oO
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I think it takes a certain bit of intelligence to properly execute being a hypocrite. So, no conservative to me is seen as a neanderthal, more or less sexually repressed and very confused individuals comes to mind more oft than not. I think Mike Huckabee's a very intelligent man, but man he's a raging homo.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Not exactly.
Baldur's Gate 2 has it.
What changed from BG2 to DA is that now you have a gay option.
Techincally there is no explicit sexual content in both games.
...
I personally LOVE how long it took for the holier than thou bloggers to get wind of it.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
My gaming blog
Not exactly.
Baldur's Gate 2 has it.
What changed from BG2 to DA is that now you have a gay option.
Techincally there is no explicit sexual content in both games.
...
And Custer's Revenge. Wiki it.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I don't think I'd call it a controversey, given how long the game has been out and I've heard no news reports on it anywhere or seen any people in the streets with signs.
That being said anyone that cares about what pixels do, or what other people do (when it doesn't hurt anyone else) is pathetic.
People who hate someone or are offended by someone due to: sexual orientation, race, gender, religion etc. are pathetic.
Someone who is offended by any game someone plays, show/movie someone watches, or book someone reads, is pathetic.
People have a right to live their lives the way they want. People have the right to produce legal products they want to produce. Anyone that cares what other legal things someone is doing....... are pathetic.
I'm tired of our world, and especially America, being so ridiculous and idiotic over issues. It's like most of society has the maturity level of an eleven year old.
I remember there was a brothel and a couple of sex scenes in Planescape Torment as well. Noone complained at that time and it's nowadays considered by one of the best games of all time.
REALITY CHECK
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
I label that says sexual content is in no way sufficient for this but yeah I see your point and I dont think the game should be pulled from the shelves.
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
The greatest fantasy works ever made, such as Tolkiens works, Dungeons of Dragons, Warhammer and so on has no or very little explicit sexual content. Heck even Conan, which has tons of references to sex and prostitutes, has almost no explicit sexual content. That is not what fantasy is about, or atleast not up unttil now.
And dont mix sexual values into this, I have no problems with pre-marital sex (I do it alot myself
). However sometimes I want to just play a game and not be exposed to sexual content, at all.
Well, I don't know what you mean by explicit. I seem to remember some very, very baudy pictures in my old Dungeons and Dragon's game books. Pictures that made me say "heck yeah I wanna save the princess if she looks like that!
Anyway, if you mean explicit in that they're is nudity of genitalia and actual footage of intercourse, then no, that's not in DA. At best it's like a B movies you'd see on USA "Up all Night" back in the day. Basically equates to a girl in a bikini and a guy in briefs and lots of up close flash cut shots. Though I want to say there was a facial expression shot of the "moment", but it looked ridiculous and comical more than believable.
Again, I'd argue that sex has played a significant role in fantasy stories. It may not have been spelled out in detail, but it has been a motivator. Conan in his search for Valeria, countless heroes and villians in D&D over the years. Tolkien, eh, not so much. Though I do seem to remember that Sam had a crush on a young hobbit and they later married and had children.
You may not expect sex in RPGs. That's cool. But don't be surprised either. Socially we're past that point, unless you've been holed up in a cave for the last 20 years or so.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
Dana started it, the cheeky devil.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
Dana started it, the cheeky devil.
Same logic as before. It's an RPG and this could just as easily have been an issue in an MMO. Heck, maybe it will be in an issue come SWTOR time
Plus, Scott had something come up and I had to fill space! :P
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Just so long as there is a democrat in the white house... Other wise W"N"D is rather more reserved in its investigations. Dragon Age was bound to get the fundies in a hysterical fit, which I suspect was one of the reasons for some of this coverage.
In a perfect world, video game designers would focus on the quality of their game without having to worry about losing valuable profit because a bunch of socially conservative activists might get offended at some minute element of a game neither they nor their own children would ever even think of playing and create an overblown public uproar to frighten large distributers into not selling the game (despite its full legality and already adult rating) for fear of being sued by some soccer mom who would rather blame little Billy's psychopathic behavior on that game they blindly bought him last Christmas rather than, say, the fact that they yell at him every time he tries to form a coherent independent opinion.
Well let me see Dragon Age Origins this looks like a fun game...but wait it says Mature 17+ content rated by the ESRB, um let me flip the game and look at the back of the box and see why its rated M. (flip box over) Look in the bottom right hand corner of the box a big giant M and it says blood, intense violence, language, partial nudity, and wait what is that last one say SEXUAL CONTENT. Right from that point WND you should have know there was going to be something you dont like about this game...oh wait....your basing your opion off a YouTube video. If you would have played game you could have so many other things to complain about but no you just watched one video and flipped the hell out. My advice to you WND get a grip there are bigger problems in this world then what happens in a video game. And one last thing WND the game is AWESOME. Thats all for now bye bye.
It is an interesting subject Tolroc, I am not sure I can find some source for you now. But there are a couple of letters from Tolkien to his son that gives a good example about his view on desire and its destructive side. Not judging his personal view of course but this detail somehow explain some aspects in his work.
I did not read Children of Hurin it seems to be interesting I will look for it.
It is an interesting subject Tolroc, I am not sure I can find some source for you now. But there are a couple of letters from Tolkien to his son that gives a good example about his view on desire and its destructive side. Not judging his personal view of course but this detail somehow explain some aspects in his work.
I did not read Children of Hurin it seems to be interesting I will look for it.
Isn't Children of Hurin the one his son assembled from his notes?
If so, it's possible that's why it's the one example of it in the guy's works.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
As I find this topic endlessly entertaining, I can't pass up a chance to add in my personal $0.02...
One thing I find particularly interesting is the general correlation between the hype/publicity of a game and the degree of public outcry over "controversial" content. Sex and extreme violence are hardly new things in video games. DA:O is hardly the first game to include sexual interactions between characters. Nor is it even the first RPG to have such. It is however one of the first to recieve this degree of media coverage for this inclusion (with the possible exception of GTAIII). To give a brief rundown of past games with as much, if not more sexual content as DA:O
Leisure Suit Larry series: Any older gamer out there probably remembers this series, based entirely around the attempts of one of the worlds biggest losers to get laid. While there was never any explicit nudity or sex, it was very heavily implied.
The Witcher: A newer game, and an action RPG to boot, there was essentially a side quest/mini game which involved having the main character have sex with as many of the female characters in the game as possible. Each time you had sex with a new character, you got a nude (in the original European version) photo in collectible card form.
Fallout 3: Not much explicit sex in this one, but similar to Oblivion a number of nudity mods were created by the community, along with a very popular mod which added random rape victims to the wastes. The game does have a number of romantic interactions possible with certain NPC's as well as some random prostitutes you could "rent".
Fable: In Fable it was possible to attempt relations with pretty much every single female in the game (and potentially males as well, but not 100% on that one). While the actual act of sex was glossed over (as it always is), it was not obfuscated in any way (you knew that your character was having sex even if it wasn't shown)
GTAIII: Umm, health replenishing prostitutes anyone?
Knights of Xentar: This was an older Hentai RPG I ran across back in the day. Absolutely hilarious story about a knight raised by a diaper cleaning service. Through the course of the game, one of the major objects was to get each of the major female NPC's to get naked and have sex with you.
Pretty much all past Bioware RPG's: Pretty much every RPG developed by Bioware (most notably Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, NWN, NWNII, and Planescape) had romantic possibilities for the main character. In the past, I believe that these have been limited to hetero couplings, but time brings progress...
Now for a few games for which I cannot recall names, but whose entire purpose for existing was... lets call it sexual simulation...
Waaayyy back in the days of the BBS's, there was a mixed text/ASCII graphics multiplayer game where your character wandered around an adult themed theme park picking up random sex toys which you used to convince other players/NPC's to have sex with you (gay, lesbian, or straight). When you finally broke down another characters resistance to your advances, you were treated to an animated ASCII of the particular sex act you were after.
SexVilla: This is a collection (sort of) of different sexual simulations. The basic premise is that you pick a couple of actors (single female, two females, male/female couple, threesome), and a setting, then you get to direct them in whatever manner you choose. An enormous number of sex toys were included (some fairly disturbing ones too like the lit cigar, cucumber, whips, riding crops, etc...). There have also been versions of the game released which had very much anime/hentai inspired actors including demons and the penultimate Hentai tentacle penis monsters.
Last but not least: There is a whole subset of Japenese somewhat Hentai inspired games similar in gameplay to the aforementioned SexVilla games, but where the goal is not to direct random actors to have sex, but rather to have your main character rape various young women in a number of scenarios (on the train, in a bathroom, etc...). Honestly one of the most disturbing pieces of gaming I have ever run across in my 25 years of computer gaming. However, when you really think about it objectively, it's not much worse than a game like Manhunt or the Hitman games which are based around executing other people in the most disturbing methods imaginable. Now I don't want to start an argument here on the relative merits of rape and execution here, but I personally put them on approximately the same level of deviation. Both involve the forceful violation of the most basic human rights to life and freedom. Rape has much longer lived repercussions for the victim than does execution of course, but it's arguable that both involve the death of some part of the individual (one the body, the other the spirit).
Anywho, I think I've ranted long enough for one day. No real point here other than that sex has been included in games, both RPG and others since long before DA:O was even an idea in the developers heads. It has been included in far more explicit and offensive forms than implicit gay sex as well. The only particularly innovative feature of sex in DA:O is the higher media profile of the game, and the wider audience which it is reaching.
That is all.
Well, there actually is sexuality woven within the lines of shakespear plays. A lot of innuendo and small comments here and there. And the sonnets are equally about a "dark woman" and a Man so there is the possibility of interacial love and homosexuality. Depending on what Dark Woman meant and depending on whose voice the sonnets are written from.
Look, as someone who has acted and who has worked with actors, I have to say that from what I've read and experienced, actors haven't really changed all that much since shakespeare's time. And many of them will do anything if they like the part. Heck, there was a time when a local playwrite wrote a lesbian scene and asked one particular actress to be in it. She approached me and said she would be in the play and do the scene but only if I was director. So actors and actresses in many cases can warm up to a part no matter what it is if it intrigues them.
But you bring about a great point which I think some people are overlooking. The idea that sexuality is a very private thing for everyone. Even those who like to engage it in public. : )
Just because a person doesn't want to see sexuality in movies, games, public places doesn't make them a prude.
To that end, I only like sexuality in movies, games, literature when done well. If it is done well then bring it on and in buckets! But I have always found it a bit tacky to watch people making out in public. Heck, I own porn both arty and not so arty,. I own erotic literature. My female characters in DA went straight for leliana (pun intended).
But do I want to walk down the street and see pictures of people copulating or turn on the television and see breasts everywhere? Certainly not.
What I think is important is choice.
I have no problems with games, movies with any type of sexuality as long as I know beforehand. Now, some writer/directtor/person might say that the discovery of that sexuality is really what makes the inclusion important but I say that that is using sex as a gimmick. And I'm for using sex as a gimmick but only if everyone is on board with that.
Movies and literature have sexuality. And as above, shakespeare does have quite a bit of sexuality laced within his lines.And Mozart wrote some extremely filthy songs (for the time). Sometimes when my Uncle waxes nostalgic about one composer or another I sometimes smile and know that he would be beside himself if he knew that one was a homosexual and another was a raving bigot.
People should always have the right to choose. If a person doesn't want to see sexuality that makes him/her no less than those who want to sprinkle their cereal with it. We all don't perceive things the same way.
And sometimes that choice is just not seeing/hearing/playing the subject in question. I say a person should do their research and know what they are getting yourself into.
If an individual knows that he/she is more easily offended then it is up to him/her to make sure that they know what they are watching. If dev is going to include the possibility of controversial material then perhaps it should be made known so that everybody involved is on the same page.
After all, getting along is not saying to some other faction that you have to accept what I believe no matter what. It's more about saying "hey, as long as you dont' persecute me for what I believe I won't shove it in your face".
If people want respect they have to give respect.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
First of all to claim deviance you have to accept that there is a norm that is being deviated from. And you just can't do that. People all over the world throughout all times have done different things to get off. The idea that a sexual behavior is deviant is false.
Those things are not morally wrong in every culture. I understand that since you think those things are deviant, you also think that 'right-thinking' people all over the world agree with you, but its just not the case.
Now lets assume for the sake of argument that there is a sexual norm, and the things you listed do indeed deviate from that norm. That still doesn't mean those things are wrong, or morally wrong. Different doesn't mean wrong. Also you can't show any harm, so protesting against gay people IS homophobia.