How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
Or, make an actual fully fleshed out and balanced game so that raiding is not the ONLY thing to do, therefore every spawn will not always be camped. And make enough to spread people around. Camping spawns was almost NEVER an issue in DAoC, because there were other things to do other than raiding.
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
Or, make an actual fully fleshed out and balanced game so that raiding is not the ONLY thing to do, therefore every spawn will not always be camped. And make enough to spread people around. Camping spawns was almost NEVER an issue in DAoC, because there were other things to do other than raiding.
Less is always more. If your going to have something big like ffa pvp zones with large raid encounters to fight over you need that to be the main focus of the game.
Don't also have a million dungeons to run and pvp minigames that would take away from that.
You want to build all mechanics around that feature so everyone is funneled into that area.
Wanna see how too many options ruin a game? check out WAR. PQs were awesome enough to keep that game booming but no you also had dungeons, single player quests, instance pvp. Imo if they kept the game focused to one mechanic it would be fine right now.
Other than WoW every other mmo trying to be jack of all trades is pure fail.
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
The reason instances are implemented is to kill off spawn camping. If these games instead have bosses spawning on a universal timer like every 4 to 6 hours then the stay at home gamers wouldnt have such a large advantage much like EQs pvp server with the 10+ hour a days ruling the entire server while everyone else were left scraps.
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Don't design the game around killing predictable boss spawns. In fact, don't design any thing that the players can easily grind or camp on. Give boss mobs a % chance to spawn some where within a specific zone. Theres so much shit along these lines that just hasn't evolved at all. Instances were just a band aid solution.
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Don't design the game around killing predictable boss spawns. In fact, don't design any thing that the players can easily grind or camp on. Give boss mobs a % chance to spawn some where within a specific zone. Theres so much shit along these lines that just hasn't evolved at all. Instances were just a band aid solution.
As much as I like the pve within pvp mechanic I just havent seen a way to keep the content available to everyone. It's always the hardcore Play all days that kill those things.
Do you want to play a game where the main hook are pve encounters in the middle of pvp zones but whenever you log in the bosses are always dead?
I've been through it so many times I hate having to join a big business like hardcore guild just to see content like that. Yeah its fun to actually fight over the big bosses but the need to wake up at 3am (being woke up by your GM) just to kill a boss is something I wont want to revisit.
Are there any upcoming MMORPGs(next year) that don't have instancing? Still don't understand how people continue to play MMORPGs that have instanced content..
I agree with you entirely. However, most such MMO's seem to be PVP-oriented. I would like to see a truly hardcore PVE MMO with ZERO instancing.
I would love to see that my-self. Some kind of hybrid sandbox game. A game world as large as DF with PvE as the main focus of content and PvP that occures because of the content. Lore and stories in game that give you a reason to PvE, not just to increase your stats for PvP. I know you can make your own stories in a sandbox, but wouldn't it be just as good if there were both?
Back to OP. The only MMO out any time soon is Mortal Online. It has no instances. Even mounts are persistant. You can't put mounts, siege equipment or boats in your backpack. Read the feedback after the next big update in the beta after the 17th. That will give you an idea of when it will be released. If will be buggy as hell and missing content for the next 6 plus months. But it is the only MMO without instances upcoming.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Simple you put timers for accounts or guilds. This guild or account can only attack/loot/kill whatever this particular mod/chest whatever once per some given period of time.
Hell man I have seen games where you could only loot a particular chest or Mob once a month OR less.
As much as I like the pve within pvp mechanic I just havent seen a way to keep the content available to everyone. It's always the hardcore Play all days that kill those things. Do you want to play a game where the main hook are pve encounters in the middle of pvp zones but whenever you log in the bosses are always dead? I've been through it so many times I hate having to join a big business like hardcore guild just to see content like that. Yeah its fun to actually fight over the big bosses but the need to wake up at 3am (being woke up by your GM) just to kill a boss is something I wont want to revisit.
No, I don't have time for that hardcore camping shit. But, i was talking about a PvE only game. And Id rather not see any thing that needs to be camped. Dynamic PvE and spawns would be a true step forward.
As much as I like the pve within pvp mechanic I just havent seen a way to keep the content available to everyone. It's always the hardcore Play all days that kill those things. Do you want to play a game where the main hook are pve encounters in the middle of pvp zones but whenever you log in the bosses are always dead? I've been through it so many times I hate having to join a big business like hardcore guild just to see content like that. Yeah its fun to actually fight over the big bosses but the need to wake up at 3am (being woke up by your GM) just to kill a boss is something I wont want to revisit.
No, I don't have time for that hardcore camping shit. But, i was talking about a PvE only game. And Id rather not see any thing that needs to be camped. Dynamic PvE and spawns would be a true step forward.
Ehh if its going to be straight up pve might as well keep the instances or just hand out a quest item that lets the boss be summoned only for you.
Not really a point into having these large bosses raids out roaming the world if you can't fight for it.
Kinda boring just racing for the pull. I would rather kill people then pull and actually pvp while pveing makes it much more exciting.
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
The reason instances are implemented is to kill off spawn camping. If these games instead have bosses spawning on a universal timer like every 4 to 6 hours then the stay at home gamers wouldnt have such a large advantage much like EQs pvp server with the 10+ hour a days ruling the entire server while everyone else were left scraps.
This is exactly the case. Instances were implemented for population control. Those days of 1 zone are over. It doesn't matter that some of us yearn back for that those times have passed and most developers think that "instances" are a progression of the genre, much like "no queues" and end-game goals. Remember: those guys in suits desperately want to build upon the numbers WoW has...but they dont just want the next WoW, they want the Call of Duty of MMOs...they want that xx billion dollar franchise.
COD: MW has made an unearthly amount of money. Guess what? the servers are smaller than its predecessor. And it's selling better. You don't think this is going to influence the MMO genre? Guess again.
Are there any upcoming MMORPGs(next year) that don't have instancing? Still don't understand how people continue to play MMORPGs that have instanced content..
ignorance is bliss, that's why
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Are there any upcoming MMORPGs(next year) that don't have instancing? Still don't understand how people continue to play MMORPGs that have instanced content..
A few reasons
1. In raid dungeons the content is typically not shared anyway. If someone is there already you go elsewhere.
2. In group content instancing makes it feasible to have dungeons where your group has to do the content from beginning to end. In non-instanced content typically groups find a room and camp it.
3. Instancing also prevents bringing 3 groups to trivialize the breakin or the content from start to finish. I kind of like content where you cant zerg it.
Are there any upcoming MMORPGs(next year) that don't have instancing? Still don't understand how people continue to play MMORPGs that have instanced content..
A few reasons
1. In raid dungeons the content is typically not shared anyway. If someone is there already you go elsewhere.
2. In group content instancing makes it feasible to have dungeons where your group has to do the content from beginning to end. In non-instanced content typically groups find a room and camp it.
3. Instancing also prevents bringing 3 groups to trivialize the breakin or the content from start to finish. I kind of like content where you cant zerg it.
Old MMOs managed raid encounters just fine without instancing. Zerging a raid encounter could provoke bad results, it required different strategies with different players.
Zerging a regular dungeon would result in no experience so thats not an issue.
And camping rooms is a result of the way game mechanics work, not instancing. If exp flow and group bonuses and down time still existted, camping rooms would happen in an instance too (I prefer camping, more chance to be social, and you still move around a lot instead of chasing glowing quest dots on a mini map).
In any case, instancing had its purpose in time, but it has been lost and abused since then.
Are there any upcoming MMORPGs(next year) that don't have instancing? Still don't understand how people continue to play MMORPGs that have instanced content..
A few reasons
1. In raid dungeons the content is typically not shared anyway. If someone is there already you go elsewhere.
2. In group content instancing makes it feasible to have dungeons where your group has to do the content from beginning to end. In non-instanced content typically groups find a room and camp it.
3. Instancing also prevents bringing 3 groups to trivialize the breakin or the content from start to finish. I kind of like content where you cant zerg it.
Old MMOs managed raid encounters just fine without instancing. Zerging a raid encounter could provoke bad results, it required different strategies with different players.
Zerging a regular dungeon would result in no experience so thats not an issue.
And camping rooms is a result of the way game mechanics work, not instancing. If exp flow and group bonuses and down time still existted, camping rooms would happen in an instance too (I prefer camping, more chance to be social, and you still move around a lot instead of chasing glowing quest dots on a mini map).
In any case, instancing had its purpose in time, but it has been lost and abused since then.
1. I never mentioned zerging in relation to raid encounters. I dont think you understand the point if thats what you think I said. I said in raid dungeons there typically is no point to sharing the area since raids typically dont share. Raids typically try to stay out of each others way and have zero interaction. Where there is zero interaction there is no purpose to shared content.
2. Zerging a regular dungeon would not as you claim result in no experience but that is not the point anyway. If a regular dungeon is designed with a boss mob at the end then instanced dungeons prevent zerging to the end to make the "trash" content trivialized.
3. I dont consider camping a room to be heroic, but I guess thats not what you are looking for in an mmorpg. Se la vie.
4. Instancing still has a purpose. Even if it has been abused in some games that does not logically imply that the proper purpose is invalidated.
I suppose the fact that some people like camping rooms and some like beating a dungeon from start to finish with content that is challenging for a single group with no help implies that there is room for both instanced and non-instanced content. Im ok with that. But to say that there is no reason for instanced content is clearly wrong.
Aren't stations in EVE instanced? I seemed to remember that when playing. I thought there was some instances in Lineage 2 as well. The others you mentioned I never played so I can't comment.
Mmmm... depending on your definition, you could perhaps argue that they were. But you can interect with any other player directly while in station (eg: item trades), so also arguably not.
Also you can't really do much in station, at least until the Incarna expansion goes live. And then it wont be instanced.
Are there any upcoming MMORPGs(next year) that don't have instancing? Still don't understand how people continue to play MMORPGs that have instanced content..
I have a question for you.
In your RL world you NEVER go to a football stadium, a movie, a theater ?
And when you do, are there people jumping on your seats and fight on stage to hamper the enjoyment of your "instance" ?
See... any GOOD designed mmorpg with an open world also needs very much those instances.
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
How do you get around spawn campers? You know the no life newbs that use alts to camp boss spawns so the unemployed guilds can get easy non-contested boss kills at 4am? Is that ok to you? I always found it a problem in games with open world pve encounters on long respawn timers. This isnt 1999 anymore bro, were arent in college anymore. how do you make it that shit like that doesnt go down?
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
Or, make an actual fully fleshed out and balanced game so that raiding is not the ONLY thing to do, therefore every spawn will not always be camped. And make enough to spread people around. Camping spawns was almost NEVER an issue in DAoC, because there were other things to do other than raiding.
Less is always more. If your going to have something big like ffa pvp zones with large raid encounters to fight over you need that to be the main focus of the game.
Don't also have a million dungeons to run and pvp minigames that would take away from that.
You want to build all mechanics around that feature so everyone is funneled into that area.
Wanna see how too many options ruin a game? check out WAR. PQs were awesome enough to keep that game booming but no you also had dungeons, single player quests, instance pvp. Imo if they kept the game focused to one mechanic it would be fine right now.
Other than WoW every other mmo trying to be jack of all trades is pure fail.
WoW is not a jack of all trades, as it has shallow meaningless PvP, a raid system that is a never ending staircase to nowhere, and a crafting system that is there pure for cosmetics. Achievements are there to distract.
As for DAoC, RvR was the primary focus of the game. To get gear, one could buy it from crafters, or they could raid for it. Raid gear was comparable to crafted gear, but maybe looked prettier, so you didn't NEED to raid in order to PvP. Raids were done for fun, and maybe at the end, you got some gear as a bonus. Meanwhile, there was an entire frontier to fight for control over, and RvR dungeons to win and then raid in. They were large and expansive and allowed MANY group to raid through at once because of the variety of monsters.
Thats how a GOOD game developer works around issues. Instancing is a lazy tactic.
Doesn't seem to be. I just started playing about a week ago with a group of about 35 people from here at MMORPG.com and I see a lot of other people besides just all of us on every day.....at least on Seradon server.
Doesn't seem to be. I just started playing about a week ago with a group of about 35 people from here at MMORPG.com and I see a lot of other people besides just all of us on every day.....at least on Seradon server.
You guys must be a sizable portion of the server population.
I think if done in the right way instancing can be nice and work well. I like how Fallen Earths instancing works, there are no loading screens when you head into an instanced area. I think instancing is needed for quests where you need to kill a specific boss or whatnot. Even though you may group up for it in the first place in games with 1 shard you will just have way to much congestion in that area and there will be a line to kill a boss.
Talk about immersion breaker, at least with an instance your party is the only people in there so no line, no loading screen, no immersion breakage..Granted Ive only seen like 3 or so instances most of the dungeons Ive been in aren't instanced so there are always people running around.
I think if done in the right way instancing can be nice and work well. I like how Fallen Earths instancing works, there are no loading screens when you head into an instanced area. I think instancing is needed for quests where you need to kill a specific boss or whatnot. Even though you may group up for it in the first place in games with 1 shard you will just have way to much congestion in that area and there will be a line to kill a boss. Talk about immersion breaker, at least with an instance your party is the only people in there so no line, no loading screen, no immersion breakage..Granted Ive only seen like 3 or so instances most of the dungeons Ive been in aren't instanced so there are always people running around.
An instance isn't an immersion breaker? Lol. How is that? An instance isn't even part of the game world, it's an instance. It's like Diablo 2. It's like you and 8000 other people on your server have their own copy of the zone.. They can each be in the same zone at the same time and you wouldn't even know they were there.
I don't see how anyone playing an MMOrpg can accept instances, anywhere. They shouldn't be used.. What if WoW was all instances? Want to trade with someone, come to ironforge, which ironforge? It's stupid. Just make one zone that everyone shares. When I go to a zone in the world, I want to see everyone in the world. I don't want to see people in my copy of the world.
It's just a cheap way of giving loot away to everyone. And in WoW it's not like anything instanced there is challenging. Their PvE content is basically showing up to a zone and receiving loot. Yet people somehow find that challenging. Are those people PvERs because they show up to a zone and get free loot?
Some people say that NPCs would always be down, or whatever, if there were no instances. Sure, if your encounters are piss-poor retarded and anyone is capable of doing that encounter, then it wouldn't be up. It wouldn't work in WoW because I can take 9 newbs and clear anything that exists in the game.
Now if you look at EQ, the PvE content was actually difficult. It wasn't about numbers, it was about coordination and strategy. WoW is a game where the PvE content is trivial because the encounters are so forgiving. Wipe to something? Infinite retries, no loss, no setup time, no nothing. Just keep trying and you will clear anything. The encounters tend to be pretty static and predictable, and with an initial strategy anything in the game is trivial. Compare this to EQ where you can have the strategy and still wipe regardless.
Instances should be boycotted. But of course the incompetent player who never played a game without instancing won't realize how stupid an idea instancing is and will persist in playing horrible MMORPGs like WoW.
Originally posted by Ginkeq An instance isn't an immersion breaker? Lol. How is that?
You can't argue it either way;
Immersion breaks when I get cut off from the rest of the world, sure...
...it also breaks when a dozen people are farming a quest location.
Either you deal with the idea of slipping into personal universes, or that whatever war you are fighting doesn't matter since people will be fighting spawns in the same spot till the end of time. Instances at least give a sense of effect and closure, rather than being a meat farm with over-arcing story being weighed down by the presence of busy strangers grinding where you need to be. Lets also mention how inconsiderate some people are by refusing to group; major reason I left FE was quests being camped and people refusing to share kills that would affect everyone there. Times is changed...
A simple way to put it all is that camping situations like that are fine depending on how little I am supposed to care about the quest material. A well thought-out series of events is hard to do standing in one place with strangers fighting over the same object as you. I have no problem when I am in there to just kill X amount of things or collect X amount of their hides - but if they want me to care why I am doing it, or they are trying to project a good story, there has to be more to it than that.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Doesn't seem to be. I just started playing about a week ago with a group of about 35 people from here at MMORPG.com and I see a lot of other people besides just all of us on every day.....at least on Seradon server.
You guys must be a sizable portion of the server population.
Cute.
No, I don't think so (and neither do you), but your comment is adorable. heh Vanguard, like any other MMO that is years old...is top heavy. The people that do play, are max level or at least on that high end. I'd guess it's probably fair to say at that point there is a lot of RP, while in other games (*cough* WoW *cough*) end game means PvP for a lot of people.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand....the open game world part feels different than say EQ2 where you have loading screens all the time. I prefer not to have loading screens. And the fact that there are no instances, in my opinion, is both good and bad, just as it was in EQ original flavor.
Perhaps the few games that don't have instancing and don't have loading screens just don't appeal to a lot of people.
Funny thing about a lot of bitching that goes on in these forums, is that usually....there's at least ONE game out that meets the qualifications for "doing right" whatever everyone is complaining about, and yet....no one ventures out to PLAY those games. They would rather bitch that "WoW doesn't have such and such," or "EQ2 lacks this and so," instead of giving their money to some game and developer that DOES have whatever they're wanting (Darkfall is a good case in point). People whine that they want a lot of things DF has....but they won't go PLAY it. They'd rather whine about wanting a NEW GAME that has all of that PLUS this, that, and the other feature they want TOO.
QQ has become it's own game. As a matter of fact....I think some developer with a sense of humor, should make an MMO called QQ and use all of the myriads of gripes about MMOs as the foundation for its formation. And there should definitely be a mini game in it that includes forums in some way. Maybe allow people to put skill points in "trolling" and "fanboism." Could be fun.
Comments
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
Or, make an actual fully fleshed out and balanced game so that raiding is not the ONLY thing to do, therefore every spawn will not always be camped. And make enough to spread people around. Camping spawns was almost NEVER an issue in DAoC, because there were other things to do other than raiding.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
Or, make an actual fully fleshed out and balanced game so that raiding is not the ONLY thing to do, therefore every spawn will not always be camped. And make enough to spread people around. Camping spawns was almost NEVER an issue in DAoC, because there were other things to do other than raiding.
Less is always more. If your going to have something big like ffa pvp zones with large raid encounters to fight over you need that to be the main focus of the game.
Don't also have a million dungeons to run and pvp minigames that would take away from that.
You want to build all mechanics around that feature so everyone is funneled into that area.
Wanna see how too many options ruin a game? check out WAR. PQs were awesome enough to keep that game booming but no you also had dungeons, single player quests, instance pvp. Imo if they kept the game focused to one mechanic it would be fine right now.
Other than WoW every other mmo trying to be jack of all trades is pure fail.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
The reason instances are implemented is to kill off spawn camping. If these games instead have bosses spawning on a universal timer like every 4 to 6 hours then the stay at home gamers wouldnt have such a large advantage much like EQs pvp server with the 10+ hour a days ruling the entire server while everyone else were left scraps.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Don't design the game around killing predictable boss spawns. In fact, don't design any thing that the players can easily grind or camp on. Give boss mobs a % chance to spawn some where within a specific zone. Theres so much shit along these lines that just hasn't evolved at all. Instances were just a band aid solution.
Don't design the game around killing predictable boss spawns. In fact, don't design any thing that the players can easily grind or camp on. Give boss mobs a % chance to spawn some where within a specific zone. Theres so much shit along these lines that just hasn't evolved at all. Instances were just a band aid solution.
As much as I like the pve within pvp mechanic I just havent seen a way to keep the content available to everyone. It's always the hardcore Play all days that kill those things.
Do you want to play a game where the main hook are pve encounters in the middle of pvp zones but whenever you log in the bosses are always dead?
I've been through it so many times I hate having to join a big business like hardcore guild just to see content like that. Yeah its fun to actually fight over the big bosses but the need to wake up at 3am (being woke up by your GM) just to kill a boss is something I wont want to revisit.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I agree with you entirely. However, most such MMO's seem to be PVP-oriented. I would like to see a truly hardcore PVE MMO with ZERO instancing.
I would love to see that my-self. Some kind of hybrid sandbox game. A game world as large as DF with PvE as the main focus of content and PvP that occures because of the content. Lore and stories in game that give you a reason to PvE, not just to increase your stats for PvP. I know you can make your own stories in a sandbox, but wouldn't it be just as good if there were both?
Back to OP. The only MMO out any time soon is Mortal Online. It has no instances. Even mounts are persistant. You can't put mounts, siege equipment or boats in your backpack. Read the feedback after the next big update in the beta after the 17th. That will give you an idea of when it will be released. If will be buggy as hell and missing content for the next 6 plus months. But it is the only MMO without instances upcoming.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Simple you put timers for accounts or guilds. This guild or account can only attack/loot/kill whatever this particular mod/chest whatever once per some given period of time.
Hell man I have seen games where you could only loot a particular chest or Mob once a month OR less.
No, I don't have time for that hardcore camping shit. But, i was talking about a PvE only game. And Id rather not see any thing that needs to be camped. Dynamic PvE and spawns would be a true step forward.
No, I don't have time for that hardcore camping shit. But, i was talking about a PvE only game. And Id rather not see any thing that needs to be camped. Dynamic PvE and spawns would be a true step forward.
Ehh if its going to be straight up pve might as well keep the instances or just hand out a quest item that lets the boss be summoned only for you.
Not really a point into having these large bosses raids out roaming the world if you can't fight for it.
Kinda boring just racing for the pull. I would rather kill people then pull and actually pvp while pveing makes it much more exciting.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
The reason instances are implemented is to kill off spawn camping. If these games instead have bosses spawning on a universal timer like every 4 to 6 hours then the stay at home gamers wouldnt have such a large advantage much like EQs pvp server with the 10+ hour a days ruling the entire server while everyone else were left scraps.
This is exactly the case. Instances were implemented for population control. Those days of 1 zone are over. It doesn't matter that some of us yearn back for that those times have passed and most developers think that "instances" are a progression of the genre, much like "no queues" and end-game goals. Remember: those guys in suits desperately want to build upon the numbers WoW has...but they dont just want the next WoW, they want the Call of Duty of MMOs...they want that xx billion dollar franchise.
COD: MW has made an unearthly amount of money. Guess what? the servers are smaller than its predecessor. And it's selling better. You don't think this is going to influence the MMO genre? Guess again.
ignorance is bliss, that's why
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A few reasons
1. In raid dungeons the content is typically not shared anyway. If someone is there already you go elsewhere.
2. In group content instancing makes it feasible to have dungeons where your group has to do the content from beginning to end. In non-instanced content typically groups find a room and camp it.
3. Instancing also prevents bringing 3 groups to trivialize the breakin or the content from start to finish. I kind of like content where you cant zerg it.
A few reasons
1. In raid dungeons the content is typically not shared anyway. If someone is there already you go elsewhere.
2. In group content instancing makes it feasible to have dungeons where your group has to do the content from beginning to end. In non-instanced content typically groups find a room and camp it.
3. Instancing also prevents bringing 3 groups to trivialize the breakin or the content from start to finish. I kind of like content where you cant zerg it.
Old MMOs managed raid encounters just fine without instancing. Zerging a raid encounter could provoke bad results, it required different strategies with different players.
Zerging a regular dungeon would result in no experience so thats not an issue.
And camping rooms is a result of the way game mechanics work, not instancing. If exp flow and group bonuses and down time still existted, camping rooms would happen in an instance too (I prefer camping, more chance to be social, and you still move around a lot instead of chasing glowing quest dots on a mini map).
In any case, instancing had its purpose in time, but it has been lost and abused since then.
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A few reasons
1. In raid dungeons the content is typically not shared anyway. If someone is there already you go elsewhere.
2. In group content instancing makes it feasible to have dungeons where your group has to do the content from beginning to end. In non-instanced content typically groups find a room and camp it.
3. Instancing also prevents bringing 3 groups to trivialize the breakin or the content from start to finish. I kind of like content where you cant zerg it.
Old MMOs managed raid encounters just fine without instancing. Zerging a raid encounter could provoke bad results, it required different strategies with different players.
Zerging a regular dungeon would result in no experience so thats not an issue.
And camping rooms is a result of the way game mechanics work, not instancing. If exp flow and group bonuses and down time still existted, camping rooms would happen in an instance too (I prefer camping, more chance to be social, and you still move around a lot instead of chasing glowing quest dots on a mini map).
In any case, instancing had its purpose in time, but it has been lost and abused since then.
1. I never mentioned zerging in relation to raid encounters. I dont think you understand the point if thats what you think I said. I said in raid dungeons there typically is no point to sharing the area since raids typically dont share. Raids typically try to stay out of each others way and have zero interaction. Where there is zero interaction there is no purpose to shared content.
2. Zerging a regular dungeon would not as you claim result in no experience but that is not the point anyway. If a regular dungeon is designed with a boss mob at the end then instanced dungeons prevent zerging to the end to make the "trash" content trivialized.
3. I dont consider camping a room to be heroic, but I guess thats not what you are looking for in an mmorpg. Se la vie.
4. Instancing still has a purpose. Even if it has been abused in some games that does not logically imply that the proper purpose is invalidated.
I suppose the fact that some people like camping rooms and some like beating a dungeon from start to finish with content that is challenging for a single group with no help implies that there is room for both instanced and non-instanced content. Im ok with that. But to say that there is no reason for instanced content is clearly wrong.
SW:TOR!
oh wait... you said NO instancing right? I thought you said "Completely Instanced more so than GW & DDO". My bad.
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Mmmm... depending on your definition, you could perhaps argue that they were. But you can interect with any other player directly while in station (eg: item trades), so also arguably not.
Also you can't really do much in station, at least until the Incarna expansion goes live. And then it wont be instanced.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I have a question for you.
In your RL world you NEVER go to a football stadium, a movie, a theater ?
And when you do, are there people jumping on your seats and fight on stage to hamper the enjoyment of your "instance" ?
See... any GOOD designed mmorpg with an open world also needs very much those instances.
Options.
No it doesn't.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Get rid of predictable, campable spawns.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Predictable spawn timers. A boss can always spawn at a certaim time if they are not up. Then it is first come first serve. At least with these system people on PvP servers could actually fight each other.
Or, make an actual fully fleshed out and balanced game so that raiding is not the ONLY thing to do, therefore every spawn will not always be camped. And make enough to spread people around. Camping spawns was almost NEVER an issue in DAoC, because there were other things to do other than raiding.
Less is always more. If your going to have something big like ffa pvp zones with large raid encounters to fight over you need that to be the main focus of the game.
Don't also have a million dungeons to run and pvp minigames that would take away from that.
You want to build all mechanics around that feature so everyone is funneled into that area.
Wanna see how too many options ruin a game? check out WAR. PQs were awesome enough to keep that game booming but no you also had dungeons, single player quests, instance pvp. Imo if they kept the game focused to one mechanic it would be fine right now.
Other than WoW every other mmo trying to be jack of all trades is pure fail.
WoW is not a jack of all trades, as it has shallow meaningless PvP, a raid system that is a never ending staircase to nowhere, and a crafting system that is there pure for cosmetics. Achievements are there to distract.
As for DAoC, RvR was the primary focus of the game. To get gear, one could buy it from crafters, or they could raid for it. Raid gear was comparable to crafted gear, but maybe looked prettier, so you didn't NEED to raid in order to PvP. Raids were done for fun, and maybe at the end, you got some gear as a bonus. Meanwhile, there was an entire frontier to fight for control over, and RvR dungeons to win and then raid in. They were large and expansive and allowed MANY group to raid through at once because of the variety of monsters.
Thats how a GOOD game developer works around issues. Instancing is a lazy tactic.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Doesn't seem to be. I just started playing about a week ago with a group of about 35 people from here at MMORPG.com and I see a lot of other people besides just all of us on every day.....at least on Seradon server.
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Doesn't seem to be. I just started playing about a week ago with a group of about 35 people from here at MMORPG.com and I see a lot of other people besides just all of us on every day.....at least on Seradon server.
You guys must be a sizable portion of the server population.
I think if done in the right way instancing can be nice and work well. I like how Fallen Earths instancing works, there are no loading screens when you head into an instanced area. I think instancing is needed for quests where you need to kill a specific boss or whatnot. Even though you may group up for it in the first place in games with 1 shard you will just have way to much congestion in that area and there will be a line to kill a boss.
Talk about immersion breaker, at least with an instance your party is the only people in there so no line, no loading screen, no immersion breakage..Granted Ive only seen like 3 or so instances most of the dungeons Ive been in aren't instanced so there are always people running around.
An instance isn't an immersion breaker? Lol. How is that? An instance isn't even part of the game world, it's an instance. It's like Diablo 2. It's like you and 8000 other people on your server have their own copy of the zone.. They can each be in the same zone at the same time and you wouldn't even know they were there.
I don't see how anyone playing an MMOrpg can accept instances, anywhere. They shouldn't be used.. What if WoW was all instances? Want to trade with someone, come to ironforge, which ironforge? It's stupid. Just make one zone that everyone shares. When I go to a zone in the world, I want to see everyone in the world. I don't want to see people in my copy of the world.
It's just a cheap way of giving loot away to everyone. And in WoW it's not like anything instanced there is challenging. Their PvE content is basically showing up to a zone and receiving loot. Yet people somehow find that challenging. Are those people PvERs because they show up to a zone and get free loot?
Some people say that NPCs would always be down, or whatever, if there were no instances. Sure, if your encounters are piss-poor retarded and anyone is capable of doing that encounter, then it wouldn't be up. It wouldn't work in WoW because I can take 9 newbs and clear anything that exists in the game.
Now if you look at EQ, the PvE content was actually difficult. It wasn't about numbers, it was about coordination and strategy. WoW is a game where the PvE content is trivial because the encounters are so forgiving. Wipe to something? Infinite retries, no loss, no setup time, no nothing. Just keep trying and you will clear anything. The encounters tend to be pretty static and predictable, and with an initial strategy anything in the game is trivial. Compare this to EQ where you can have the strategy and still wipe regardless.
Instances should be boycotted. But of course the incompetent player who never played a game without instancing won't realize how stupid an idea instancing is and will persist in playing horrible MMORPGs like WoW.
You can't argue it either way;
Immersion breaks when I get cut off from the rest of the world, sure...
...it also breaks when a dozen people are farming a quest location.
Either you deal with the idea of slipping into personal universes, or that whatever war you are fighting doesn't matter since people will be fighting spawns in the same spot till the end of time. Instances at least give a sense of effect and closure, rather than being a meat farm with over-arcing story being weighed down by the presence of busy strangers grinding where you need to be. Lets also mention how inconsiderate some people are by refusing to group; major reason I left FE was quests being camped and people refusing to share kills that would affect everyone there. Times is changed...
A simple way to put it all is that camping situations like that are fine depending on how little I am supposed to care about the quest material. A well thought-out series of events is hard to do standing in one place with strangers fighting over the same object as you. I have no problem when I am in there to just kill X amount of things or collect X amount of their hides - but if they want me to care why I am doing it, or they are trying to project a good story, there has to be more to it than that.
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Doesn't seem to be. I just started playing about a week ago with a group of about 35 people from here at MMORPG.com and I see a lot of other people besides just all of us on every day.....at least on Seradon server.
You guys must be a sizable portion of the server population.
Cute.
No, I don't think so (and neither do you), but your comment is adorable. heh Vanguard, like any other MMO that is years old...is top heavy. The people that do play, are max level or at least on that high end. I'd guess it's probably fair to say at that point there is a lot of RP, while in other games (*cough* WoW *cough*) end game means PvP for a lot of people.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand....the open game world part feels different than say EQ2 where you have loading screens all the time. I prefer not to have loading screens. And the fact that there are no instances, in my opinion, is both good and bad, just as it was in EQ original flavor.
Perhaps the few games that don't have instancing and don't have loading screens just don't appeal to a lot of people.
Funny thing about a lot of bitching that goes on in these forums, is that usually....there's at least ONE game out that meets the qualifications for "doing right" whatever everyone is complaining about, and yet....no one ventures out to PLAY those games. They would rather bitch that "WoW doesn't have such and such," or "EQ2 lacks this and so," instead of giving their money to some game and developer that DOES have whatever they're wanting (Darkfall is a good case in point). People whine that they want a lot of things DF has....but they won't go PLAY it. They'd rather whine about wanting a NEW GAME that has all of that PLUS this, that, and the other feature they want TOO.
QQ has become it's own game. As a matter of fact....I think some developer with a sense of humor, should make an MMO called QQ and use all of the myriads of gripes about MMOs as the foundation for its formation. And there should definitely be a mini game in it that includes forums in some way. Maybe allow people to put skill points in "trolling" and "fanboism." Could be fun.
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