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What is a "hard" MMORPG for you?
Thenarius
Member Posts: 1,106
I really wonder this.
What's the thing that bumbs a MMORPG's difficulty in your eyes? Is it the time spent grinding random things to improve your status in the game? Is it PvE that PvP which demands you to use a huge amount of abilities to win? Or maybe...is it a MMO where game mechanics aren't explained so you must figure them on your own?
I really want to hear from you guys, what's a "challenging" MMO in your eyes?
Comments
Warhammer Online is the hardest.
It's basically a boring bad version of WoW and it's so hard to drag myself through the exact same starting area with the same boring kill 10 of these quests and the same capture point PVP. The only difference is instead of being populated theres noone there lol.
Atleast an EVE Online or a SWG Pre CU were interesting reading up on the different game mechanics. I had fun learning their complex systems because they're rewarding in the end. Where as WAR is the EXACT SAME FUCKING GAME as all the other WoW clones, only it's even easier so you feel like your brain is rotting.
Well lets see.....
Having to play for DaysWeeks just leveling so you can reach the real fun at endgame [wow type games].
Having the same old Quests and having to do them for the above reason [such as the collect 10 Tusks from killing Boars and having to kill 100 to get the tusks when the NPC model clearly has them every time].
Having a gear system where you have to do additional grind - sometimes for months just so you can compete.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
DnD got pretty hard during groups and on solo missions (when i ran em on a difficulty other than Solo). That and the fact that i did not know where the traps where (and usually blundered into them) and some of the puzzles made me stop and think for a bit.
Aside from that i would say Vanguard. The mobs are so varied and different that they become quite hard to fight at times. You never really know what works well against them. Also the smaller population made some quests hard and even with a full group some of the dungeons were crazy.
Still both are epic fun. Half of the fun in games is the challenge
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Heh i think someone here didnt read the OP's post properly.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I assume you mean a fun challenging game?
I don't think an MMO can be all that challenging. The massive and multiplayer aspect pretty much means that the designers are going to aim for the median.
Challenge has always been how much time are you willing to commit, not how smart are you or how fast are you.
Raids test your ability to follow simple instructions.
That said, the occasional challenge is fun. Linkins Boomerang quest in WoW was fun to solo on my pally. At the end of a long chain you have to kill an elite fire elemental who can punt you, the problem is the hole area is covered in fire elements and when you're punted, you get ads. The trick was to fight him inside of a cave so that when you're punted, the cave walls will stop you from traveling far.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
hard = complex game mechanics, real chance of failing at something (like quests etc)
what is usually referred to has hard is almost always stuff that requires an insane time committment, but could be done by a monkey, so ...^^
Personally, I like my video games to be fun, enjoyable and with a bit of a challenge, but not to an extent where I need to study spreadsheets and read forums to find the fotm build...
A "hard" MMO is one that takes so much time to read up on to play effectively that I get wife aggro.
Eve is hard because the god damn guides on each feature are as thick as a phone book and the wife hates when all my attention is on a game like that.
No game has a strickter penalty for playing (2 nights on the living room sofa).
Eve > all
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I have 2 things, both from wow.
1 - High end arena(yes, i know its unbalanced)
2 - New hardmodes, such at anub arak 25 hc, or yogg saron zero keepers, yes that is DAMN hard.
This.
I spend more time reading about EVE and messing with my chars plans and setups in offline applications from playing in other games.
An mmo that rewards you for your actual skill instead of the stats on your gear. I'm freaking terrible at MMOs but WoW loves to make me feel like I'm not.
I bet you failed at wow. Also, stop flaiming the game you know NOTHING about.
I bet you failed at wow. Also, stop flaiming the game you know NOTHING about.
Yes, I know nothing about it. It was my first mmo and the one I've been playing since release. I know nothing!
Quit being so defensive. I didn't flame anything. I just gave my opinion on what I felt was a "hard" MMORPG. Sorry it isn't the same as yours.
I bet you failed at wow. Also, stop flaiming the game you know NOTHING about.
Yes, I know nothing about it. It was my first mmo and the one I've been playing since release. I know nothing!
Quit being so defensive. I didn't flame anything. I just gave my opinion on what I felt was a "hard" MMORPG. Sorry it isn't the same as yours.
There is no question, wow high end raiding is still the HARD, so no its no easy..you cant even think it is, because it isent.
Link me your yogg zero keepers achiv, and anub 25 hc achive.
Skill is a measure of the player's decisionmaking and physical capabilities. Choosing the right ability, choosing the side path to flank your opponent, and deftly manipulating the game's controls are all examples of skill.
Difficulty is the minimum amount of skill required to be victorious. It's pure skill-check, not time investment.
Pretty basic concepts. Perhaps someday I'll figure out why MMORPG players (unlike players in other genres) have such a hard time with them. Probably related to Time Investment being such an important aspect of these games as a means to reduce difficulty.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I bet you failed at wow. Also, stop flaiming the game you know NOTHING about.
Yes, I know nothing about it. It was my first mmo and the one I've been playing since release. I know nothing!
Quit being so defensive. I didn't flame anything. I just gave my opinion on what I felt was a "hard" MMORPG. Sorry it isn't the same as yours.
There is no question, wow high end raiding is still the HARD, so no its no easy..you cant even think it is, because it isent.
Link me your yogg zero keepers achiv, and anub 25 hc achive.
Hey man, that's your opinion. If you think WoW is hard, great! That's you man. Nothing wrong with that.
Sure I haven't completed every hardmode avaliable, but that's more due to the fact that I am in a guild with mostly irl friends and I work a 40 hour week while attending college.
If I had the resources and time, I have no doubt I could complete WoW toughest challenges, mainly because the game doesn't punish you in the slightest for failing at them.
For me hard mean:
1. Competitive.
2. Decision oriented
3. Risk vs Reward
For me casual mean:
1. Not competitive
2. Time sink oriented
3. Time vs Reward
In hardcore game most important thing are player actions. With wrong actions you can have very small or even negative progress till in casual game the main factor that determine the progress is time invested as your action have relatively small impact of it. That do not mean hardcore game require less time invested. It mean that it can need much more time if not played "correctly".
What kind of gameplay you prefer determine if you prefer more emotional or more balanced gameplay.
From many years I do not have much time to spend for games but even that I still prefer more "hardcore" style of games as it gives me the feeling that I have achieved something with my decisions while in most casual games I feel the time lost and no reward can satisfy me if I have not make any special decision for it in addition to the time spend.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
A hard game to me is one where it is difficult to overcome the challenges purely due to ability of the player, meaning skill as a player is being tested.
What does not make a game hard is,
Because those test my character or my sense of boredom, not me as a player, unless the difficulty comes in the form of tactics I would not consider the game to be hard.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Hmm, hard MMO... well someone said EVE and I kind of agree with that, EVE has some serious punishment and can almost lead you to a mental breakdown in some cases... last time I played was like 3 or 4 years ago but I remember how intense those low sec zones were.
Anyways, in my personal opinion the hardest MMO by my standards is Lineage2, and I hear you saying "Oh another Lineage2 fanboy", yes I am a big fan of Lineage2. And anyone who played it since the start knows what I'm talking about.. I was so eager to try it I even went on the Korean Beta first... although I couldn't do anything because I didn't know what the hell the NPCs were "saying" lol.
It took about 2 years (counting from Open Beta... since there was no wipe when it went live) someone correct me if I'm wrong on the timeframe... to slay Antharas, and if I remember correctly it was in C2 test conditions on Korea, it took more than 10 hours, a total amount of more than 1k players were involved and the GMs had to raise the players lvl to 75 and give them full B-grade gear.
That's a hard raid!!!
TU2 Closed Beta Testing... looking very good so far
I disagree with that. Death Penalties are only matched by the skill of the player, you suck you die, you're good you survive.
I disagree with that. Death Penalties are only matched by the skill of the player, you suck you die, you're good you survive.
But your ability to die or survive I think would be the difficulty, after you are dead the extra penalty you incure I don't see adding to the difficulty of the game it is just a set back.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
I disagree with that. Death Penalties are only matched by the skill of the player, you suck you die, you're good you survive.
But your ability to die or survive I think would be the difficulty, after you are dead the extra penalty you incure I don't see adding to the difficulty of the game it is just a set back.
It basically sets a goal. Don't die. It get's a bit silly when death is used as a travel mechanic : /
I disagree with that. Death Penalties are only matched by the skill of the player, you suck you die, you're good you survive.
But your ability to die or survive I think would be the difficulty, after you are dead the extra penalty you incure I don't see adding to the difficulty of the game it is just a set back.
There is a good point in both your arguments, but take for example the MMO I talked about a few posts above this one, if you die you lose EXP points, you may get a Death Penalty buff that seriously hinders your characters performance and you could even lose a part of your equipped gear or something in your inventory. I would say those are harsh punishments that can contribute to the game being a bit harder, well it will at least make you think twice before trying to go on a mad killing spree
TU2 Closed Beta Testing... looking very good so far
I disagree with that. Death Penalties are only matched by the skill of the player, you suck you die, you're good you survive.
But your ability to die or survive I think would be the difficulty, after you are dead the extra penalty you incure I don't see adding to the difficulty of the game it is just a set back.
There is a good point in both your arguments, but take for example the MMO I talked about a few posts above this one, if you die you lose EXP points, you may get a Death Penalty buff that seriously hinders your characters performance and you could even lose a part of your equipped gear or something in your inventory. I would say those are harsh punishments that can contribute to the game being a bit harder, well it will at least make you think twice before trying to go on a mad killing spree
The fight where you died though doesn't get any harder. If you have death penalties it is like CactusmanX said a set back. It forces more grind to get where you were before death, requiring time investment not skill.
The problem is the lack of logical sense: The player just died. He failed the skill-check. Should the game become harder at that point?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The problem is the lack of logical sense: The player just died. He failed the skill-check. Should the game become harder at that point?
Heh, not sure if you ever played WoW, but here is a little scenario. in a Instance, HS down, don't feel like running back, unslot armor, commit suicide. It's easily exploited. You have to have some sort of meaningful Death penatly otherwise winning feels like winning and losing, well, either feels like nothing or winning.