well a hard mmorpg involves complex strategies involved to finish the game, and most likely will have multiple skills involved for users to try out in PvP mode
What makes it hard for me is a new game. Nothing like trying to be the first one to figure things out you know, but man when you do get it right, you cant be stopped. Please help me with my referal points
There's nothing hard about mmorpgs. Your only real enemy is ever 'time' and the 'inability of others'. I'd like to say AI and level design coupled with creative content, but.. One day? Maybe?
You looked into ToRs AI? Some amazing stuff.
I have not; but since you've mentioned it I probably will give it a shot this weekend.
They was demonstrating the mobs actually spotting players about to cast CC abilities, the mobs would get some distance from the player forcing the player to waste it. There is a couple other neat things, they're being pretty hush hush about it though. Hopefully it will be challenging like they hope it to be.
...
Really, that isn't exactly AI. It's not even hard to do. The reason mobs aren't smart is that if they were smart, you would just never kill them. The fact is they have to be stupid for the game to be playable.
Do you really think that they couldn't easily build something like that into any MMORPG? They could have had that back in the 90s if they wanted.
Really.. A boss could just see: "Is someone casting a heal on the main tank? If so, interrupt them." Or "Target people with the lowest HP first, or target classes that can't tank"..
So, the stuff you mention really isn't AI at all. It's just simple rules that the author of the code puts in there. For something to be AI, there has to be some kind of learning etc. They would've put what you are talking about into MMORPGs but then most people wouldn't be able to handle it (most WoW players anyway).
They should make insane bosses like that though. Maybe a boss that goes after random players. I'd play a game if the boss encounters were actually challenging again.
What's the thing that bumbs a MMORPG's difficulty in your eyes? Is it the time spent grinding random things to improve your status in the game? Is it PvE that PvP which demands you to use a huge amount of abilities to win? Or maybe...is it a MMO where game mechanics aren't explained so you must figure them on your own?
I really want to hear from you guys, what's a "challenging" MMO in your eyes?
A player-driven ecosystem game where the players play the central role of conquer's and mobs.
A "hard" MMO is one that takes so much time to read up on to play effectively that I get wife aggro. Eve is hard because the god damn guides on each feature are as thick as a phone book and the wife hates when all my attention is on a game like that. No game has a strickter penalty for playing (2 nights on the living room sofa). Eve > all
~and how to you have a high-difficulty game without a game over screen?
A big reason people like harder death penalties is that it gives players a reason to give a crap whether they live or die. In some cases, like to maintain fluidity, the lighter penalty of lost time suits. I liked how AoC was handled well enough though, in that it took moments to get back in the fight after death, and nothing was lost... but this made every victory have lesser meaning in the end, even though it was far more accessible, as well as having revival/return be as fast as it takes to die. There is something to be said for that, but I also enjoy games where the loss from death is the pivot that keeps people wary of others, as well as in PvE encounters. Even if the game had no real PvP, the hardcore death penalty works for PvE in the sense that players *will* pay more attention, that or they will lose a lot and have nobody to blame but themselves for slacking. I can't remember how many times in Wurm that I've been chased by something that will hand me my ass for miles, and only a few times have I actually succumbed to them, but they were painful losses - otherwise, it's made me really good at scouting out mobs preemptively, as well as escaping using terrain. In the end, it's really about putting the "fear of loss" in an MMO - and since you can't really *lose* the game (unless it's permadeath), there has to be some kind of major setbacks to make the player *care moar*.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
What makes it hard for me is a new game. Nothing like trying to be the first one to figure things out you know, but man when you do get it right, you cant be stopped. Please help me with my referal points http://brushbackbaseball.com/index.jsp?rf=21
Yes, learning any new MMO is the "hard" part. Figuring out how it works. SWG was a serious bear to learn...it had a very steep learning curve, took two weeks of pretty solid casual play time to sort it out...and this was in beta, before the tutorial came along, when it was all "here's a blaster and a melon, kid. Look out for Corellian butterflies! Go have fun".
Once you have the basic system down, it's a matter of exploring the subtleties. Even WoW, which is derided by so many around here as "easy" has a lot of sublties, especially as you transition from the leveling game to the raiding game. All the sudden a lot of buttons you never pushed become important.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire.
A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights.
I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting.
"Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
My definition of "hard" is simply: When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire. A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights. I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting. "Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
My definition of "hard" is simply: When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire. A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights. I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting. "Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
My definition of "hard" is simply: When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire. A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights. I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting. "Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
My definition of "hard" is simply: When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire. A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights. I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting. "Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
This is either a failure to read on your behalf, or just silliness.
Read the highlights again, if you still think that none of those elements contribute to making a game "hard", then you are simply wrong and should avoid using words like "Ignorance".
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
My definition of "hard" is simply: When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire. A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights. I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting. "Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
This is either a failure to read on your behalf, or just silliness.
Read the highlights again, if you still think that none of those elements contribute to making a game "hard", then you are simply wrong and should avoid using words like "Ignorance".
What's your example? What MMORPG are you referring to specifically?
Originally posted by Thenarius I really wonder this. What's the thing that bumbs a MMORPG's difficulty in your eyes? Is it the time spent grinding random things to improve your status in the game? Is it PvE that PvP which demands you to use a huge amount of abilities to win? Or maybe...is it a MMO where game mechanics aren't explained so you must figure them on your own? I really want to hear from you guys, what's a "challenging" MMO in your eyes?
None of the things you mentioned (part from the abilities) one has anything to do if a game is "hard" or not..
Time is more of an issue here..
If a game is suppose to be hard, it has to have you think about what you do in each an every situation and It would also require a group to manage, In MMO's this would mean forced grouping..
This is the only way to make a game hard, then they can also have "complex solutions" and/or alot of micromanagment options or fine tune options, like Anarchy Online for example..
My definition of "hard" is simply: When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire. A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights. I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting. "Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
I really do not get where you get the idea that 'knowing the fight' = 'win always'. There are plenty of fights in MMOs where I know the strategy but lack the skill to execute it properly.
In your shooter example you know how the fight goes and what you have to do to beat it but unless you have the skill you are never going to beat it. Same exact thing applies to MMORPG fights. If you do not have the minimal level of skill needed to beat it, it does not matter how much knowledge about the fight you have.
Difficulty should be so much more than; "am I the right level?", "this guy in my group is geared crappily..", "this mob has 1,000,000 hp and a dark aoe pulse.." I seriously had high hopes for AoC when the devs would post about how the environment would affect things and players would have to look for trigger events to trip up crafty AI. Didn't happen.
Now there's been frustrating moments I've had while playing MMOs and some games have decent enough AI to make things somewhat challenging. Lost Dungeons for EQ1 back in the day, actually still, has some great dungeon crawl type game play that's fairly difficult. Still, I'd rather lose to a game that out played me, than out lasted me.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
What's your example? What MMORPG are you referring to specifically?
None, specifically. I don't find any MMORPGs to be particularly challenging with the possible exception of top-tier raiding in WoW and the occasional mini-game daily quest and achievement.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Comments
well a hard mmorpg involves complex strategies involved to finish the game, and most likely will have multiple skills involved for users to try out in PvP mode
What makes it hard for me is a new game. Nothing like trying to be the first one to figure things out you know, but man when you do get it right, you cant be stopped. Please help me with my referal points
http://brushbackbaseball.com/index.jsp?rf=21
You looked into ToRs AI? Some amazing stuff.
I have not; but since you've mentioned it I probably will give it a shot this weekend.
They was demonstrating the mobs actually spotting players about to cast CC abilities, the mobs would get some distance from the player forcing the player to waste it. There is a couple other neat things, they're being pretty hush hush about it though. Hopefully it will be challenging like they hope it to be.
...
Really, that isn't exactly AI. It's not even hard to do. The reason mobs aren't smart is that if they were smart, you would just never kill them. The fact is they have to be stupid for the game to be playable.
Do you really think that they couldn't easily build something like that into any MMORPG? They could have had that back in the 90s if they wanted.
Really.. A boss could just see: "Is someone casting a heal on the main tank? If so, interrupt them." Or "Target people with the lowest HP first, or target classes that can't tank"..
So, the stuff you mention really isn't AI at all. It's just simple rules that the author of the code puts in there. For something to be AI, there has to be some kind of learning etc. They would've put what you are talking about into MMORPGs but then most people wouldn't be able to handle it (most WoW players anyway).
They should make insane bosses like that though. Maybe a boss that goes after random players. I'd play a game if the boss encounters were actually challenging again.
A player-driven ecosystem game where the players play the central role of conquer's and mobs.
ROFL!!! OMG....that seriously cracked me up, because...I know it's totally true! hehehe
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Hard = time consuming and frustrating.
I don't have much time to play and I'm not very skilled and the combination: I don't have enough time to get skilled. This is hard!
Hard = A more unforgiving scale of difficulty
~and how to you have a high-difficulty game without a game over screen?
A big reason people like harder death penalties is that it gives players a reason to give a crap whether they live or die. In some cases, like to maintain fluidity, the lighter penalty of lost time suits. I liked how AoC was handled well enough though, in that it took moments to get back in the fight after death, and nothing was lost... but this made every victory have lesser meaning in the end, even though it was far more accessible, as well as having revival/return be as fast as it takes to die. There is something to be said for that, but I also enjoy games where the loss from death is the pivot that keeps people wary of others, as well as in PvE encounters. Even if the game had no real PvP, the hardcore death penalty works for PvE in the sense that players *will* pay more attention, that or they will lose a lot and have nobody to blame but themselves for slacking. I can't remember how many times in Wurm that I've been chased by something that will hand me my ass for miles, and only a few times have I actually succumbed to them, but they were painful losses - otherwise, it's made me really good at scouting out mobs preemptively, as well as escaping using terrain. In the end, it's really about putting the "fear of loss" in an MMO - and since you can't really *lose* the game (unless it's permadeath), there has to be some kind of major setbacks to make the player *care moar*.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Yes, learning any new MMO is the "hard" part. Figuring out how it works. SWG was a serious bear to learn...it had a very steep learning curve, took two weeks of pretty solid casual play time to sort it out...and this was in beta, before the tutorial came along, when it was all "here's a blaster and a melon, kid. Look out for Corellian butterflies! Go have fun".
Once you have the basic system down, it's a matter of exploring the subtleties. Even WoW, which is derided by so many around here as "easy" has a lot of sublties, especially as you transition from the leveling game to the raiding game. All the sudden a lot of buttons you never pushed become important.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
My definition of "hard" is simply:
When I enter into a fight, I don't know if I'm going to win or not. I think I am, I sure hope I am .. but there's a very real possibility that I won't. React too slowly, make a bad decision on what skill to use, underestimate my opponent and don't bug out when I should .. or simply lose my perception of the environment and forget not to stand in fire.
A hard MMO is one that challenges me on a frequent basis, has a control interface that is complex (but not excessively so) and has gameplay that is fast-paced and requires me to pay attention to the game and react to changes in the fight dynamic. There should be no "tank and spank" fights.
I would never equate "hard" with "takes a long time" in an MMO setting.
"Spam 1 skill" combat is not hard at all; having to do it for 20 hours doesn't make it any harder. That's just doing something easy for a long time. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/
allakazam
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/
allakazam
Every game has a difficulty setting.
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/
allakazam
Every game has a difficulty setting.
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/
allakazam
Every game has a difficulty setting.
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
This is either a failure to read on your behalf, or just silliness.
Read the highlights again, if you still think that none of those elements contribute to making a game "hard", then you are simply wrong and should avoid using words like "Ignorance".
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/
allakazam
Every game has a difficulty setting.
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
This is either a failure to read on your behalf, or just silliness.
Read the highlights again, if you still think that none of those elements contribute to making a game "hard", then you are simply wrong and should avoid using words like "Ignorance".
What's your example? What MMORPG are you referring to specifically?
None of the things you mentioned (part from the abilities) one has anything to do if a game is "hard" or not..
Time is more of an issue here..
If a game is suppose to be hard, it has to have you think about what you do in each an every situation and It would also require a group to manage, In MMO's this would mean forced grouping..
This is the only way to make a game hard, then they can also have "complex solutions" and/or alot of micromanagment options or fine tune options, like Anarchy Online for example..
Here ya go. I just made all your MMORPGs easy instead of hard:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/
allakazam
Every game has a difficulty setting.
Most just require you to go into the menu and change it from "Hard" to "Easy".
With MMOs, you have to get a bit creative and use Wiki sites. No real difference.
My point is what you are describing as making a game "hard" is just ignorance.
A shooter on "hard" is well, hard. It doesn't matter that I've played the scenario 4 or 5 times. I KNOW the guy with the machine gun is waiting for me behind the door, I just can't kill him AND the two guys with pistols that pop out from behind the trash can before they get me.
I KNOW what I have to do, I have to aim better and shoot faster, i'm just having a hard time accomplishing that, hence making the game "hard".
I don't encounter that in an MMORPG. If I know what the mobs is, I know if I'm going to win, or it is going to win, or if it is a draw and I will win 50% nad the Mob will win 50% of the time.
If ti's 50/50 then I know if there is a death penalty and it's not worth it, or there is no death penalty and what the hell, 50% of the time I'll get some xp and or loot.
I really do not get where you get the idea that 'knowing the fight' = 'win always'. There are plenty of fights in MMOs where I know the strategy but lack the skill to execute it properly.
In your shooter example you know how the fight goes and what you have to do to beat it but unless you have the skill you are never going to beat it. Same exact thing applies to MMORPG fights. If you do not have the minimal level of skill needed to beat it, it does not matter how much knowledge about the fight you have.
Difficulty should be so much more than; "am I the right level?", "this guy in my group is geared crappily..", "this mob has 1,000,000 hp and a dark aoe pulse.." I seriously had high hopes for AoC when the devs would post about how the environment would affect things and players would have to look for trigger events to trip up crafty AI. Didn't happen.
Now there's been frustrating moments I've had while playing MMOs and some games have decent enough AI to make things somewhat challenging. Lost Dungeons for EQ1 back in the day, actually still, has some great dungeon crawl type game play that's fairly difficult. Still, I'd rather lose to a game that out played me, than out lasted me.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
None, specifically. I don't find any MMORPGs to be particularly challenging with the possible exception of top-tier raiding in WoW and the occasional mini-game daily quest and achievement.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift