Vanguard is a very good game, I just wish people would get over its poor launch and give it a real chance.
For me Vanguard is the only MMO i ever played that went badder with every patch til i was unable to play more than 5 minutes in a row and then i quitted in very anger.
It could have been a great game but as many MMOs was very bad managed.
I tried the free trial much later but i had still bad feelings from my first experience with VG and there is only so much time to play one MMO so i decided to forget about it and never come back.
Lesson is not to drive you customers away in anger - they will remember that a very long time...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Hrmm. This post's whole premise is entirely subjective. That being said...
Would it work? Ultimately you keep subscriber's through gameplay that is exciting and accessible... but there's something about soloing and grouping, playing versus others and monsters, running around exploring the world and sitting inside a city chatting... there's something about the fullness that I personally find necessary to any MMO that should ever be released.
Now each title will cater to a certain audience more than other, that much is obvious. But if you wanted a 'more PvE focused game' (assuming no noteworthy title will *not* offer PvP), I'm sure something like FFXIV might be the present you're asking for this Christmas.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
MMOs lack the complex AI of a single-player game, and typically the accessibility of PvP in an FPS in exchange for depth from item/territory/rank loss. The PvP in MMOs really isn't as good as it is in FPS games, but the FPS games need to find more and more reasons for people to keep playing past the game's prime (ranks and junk). Until we see a change to where both sides feel right, it's going to continue sucking.
I would like to state again from an earlier post in this thread that the only good point to MMO PvE has been raid boss scripting, giving it the feel and pace of an epic battle from a single-player game, stacked on top of the tank-n-spank methods I personally loathe. Anything short of those battles are just fodder for priming yourself for the best the game has to offer. I say the common fight with a mob needs more intricacy then "stand there and tradeoff damage". The genre needs intuitive blocking/dodging/striking, as well as enemies that show enough personality to require tactics (flanking, fleeing, etc). When that happens though, expect the pacing of advancement to change in the favor of speed as well (or else the effort-to-grind ratio breaks it).
PvP is only as good as a game's base combat. From there it really doesn't matter if it takes a long time to find or not, as either way usually speaks for a game's philosophy on how to handle loss. It's a quick affair with no downtime, or one of depth that takes searching and rewards victory far more.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
People who want to play PVE centered games, don't want to play by themselves they just don't want to play AGAINST other players. There are a ton of things to do in a PVE focoused game which can be played with other players; Instances, dungeons, quests and trading...You don't need to have PVP in order to have an MMORPG..Those who think otherwise, should really evaluate their knowledge of this said genre.
People who want to play PVE centered games, don't want to play by themselves they just don't want to play AGAINST other players. There are a ton of things to do in a PVE focoused game which can be played with other players; Instances, dungeons, quests and trading...You don't need to have PVP in order to have an MMORPG..Those who think otherwise, should really evaluate their knowledge of this said genre.
So true. Games like Ultima Online and a few others did well because they offered diversity; not killing monsters/players 99% of the time. Blacksmiths repairing weapons standing at the forge, talking to their customers. Training pets. Decorating your house or get people to visit your own vendors. Mine or chop wood for a new craft. Do player driven events. To sum it all up, interact with others, not chop their heads off.
Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained. Played: almost all MMO pre 2007
People who want to play PVE centered games, don't want to play by themselves they just don't want to play AGAINST other players. There are a ton of things to do in a PVE focoused game which can be played with other players; Instances, dungeons, quests and trading...You don't need to have PVP in order to have an MMORPG..Those who think otherwise, should really evaluate their knowledge of this said genre.
So true. Games like Ultima Online and a few others did well because they offered diversity; not killing monsters/players 99% of the time. Blacksmiths repairing weapons standing at the forge, talking to their customers. Training pets. Decorating your house or get people to visit your own vendors. Mine or chop wood for a new craft. Do player driven events. To sum it all up, interact with others, not chop their heads off.
But... everyone agrees the best times in UO where when you *could* chop anyone's head off, as well as steal. The diversity encompassed PvP too you know.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever.
They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD.
...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
I wonder why the OP even did this. It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever. They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD. ...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
I also believe that developers do watch the forums here and other places to gather ideas, just like they play the competitors games to get ideas. With any luck maybe they will take some ideas that people post in these forums into consideration on future games. You never know.. stranger things have happened.
"...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!" <-- that line did give me a good chuckle though..lol
All games u mentioned failed, u have lotro and wow for pve. PvP players still have nothing.
As a guy that's usually having to debate PVP'ers that keep demanding ffa PVP in games like LotRO, I'm in agreement. The trend has been going PVE for quite some time.
This has NOT been much of a year for PvP fans. WAR is falling apart, CO is barely mentionable, Aion is pretty dry on PvP from what I've hearing, and FE isn't without its issues. DFO's full loot policy has many players playing broken; running around in their skivvies.
Sure, PVE hasn't had much better a year, if at all, but WoW, CoX, and LotRO are still great options. PvP'ers got squat.
And with most everything coming next year being PVE based, it's the PVP'ers that deserve to make a thread like this one. So long as they voice their desire for their own PvP game and not the desire to gank hobbits in the Shire, I'm in full support.
I wonder why the OP even did this. It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever. They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD. ...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
You have LOTRO, Vanguard, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons and how many more PvE games. You also have Final Fantasy XIV, DC Universe, and Star Wars: TOR coming out.
PvPers still don't have a AAA title to call their own. Hopefully Guild Wars 2, APB, and Global Agenda can change that.
I wonder why the OP even did this. It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever. They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD. ...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Only PvE? no developer/publisher would do such a stupid thing. The majority of mmorpg gamers prefer both. The problem here is that the OP wishes for only pve, and you have others that just want pvp. To want just one or the other is silly, the games do horribly. Demand both, and learn to like both. PvE content expires, it requires more work for a development team which has to continuously keep adding just to satisfy the whiny pve crowd (and yes they are very whiny), where as PvP is user generated content. It is a form of replay value that keeps the game active longer while the developers have time and MONEY (due to sub numbers) to add and create more PvE content.
The OP seems to think that if any game has pvp in it, it is therefore a PvP focused game. Not so. Darkfall and Mortal online are not even AAA titles. They come from small european development studios with very limited funding, they are not going after the same market of mmorpgs, but rather a small niche market. If the OP is not paying attention to the AAA production, or lack there of of the titles.. then there are TONS of korean free to play PVE only games coming out. But it seems like the OP wouldnt want that, and neither would the PVP players. So the use of Darkfall and MO doesnt fly, and doesnt count. WAR does however, and guess what? the game is failing. Right now they are focusing on adding more and more PVE content, so you cant say there is none of that in there to play.
OP, if you really want more like you, those who cant stand any form of pvp, player driven content, and hold an illogical bias towards it, then play Vanguard Saga of Heroes, or Age of Conan (PvE server). Theres Fallen Earth & LOTR as well... you cannot say there are no PVE games that have been out. In fact, many can argue that there havent been any good PVP games, and more PvE focused titles.
I like many, look forward to a well designed AAA mmorpg that focuses on both PVE AND PVP equally and people who are not afraid to play both. The challenges are similar, the intelligence of your opponent (cpu or player) is not.
Wow, was wondering how long it would be till this forum was trolled. I am glad you can speak for the publisher about it being a stupid idea to create a PVE game. Maybe there are more people out there that like PVE then you think, if there were not then games like EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, etc would not be out and still running.
Also I never said there were not any PVE games already out there. I said I would like a new PVE game. I don't recall any whining in my post either. Maybe you should re-read the post again. Personally attacking people because they do not like what you do is no way to solve an issue. If you disagree just state why and what you would like to see.
Vanguard, I have played and maxed out on, Conan I have played, but I do not like the fight controls in it. Fallen Earth I played the beta and the trial on , but it is just to buggy a game for me.
So because you think I am wrong I am there for a troll? Are you honestly going with that argument?
I'm not trying to be offensive here, but there are some things you need to hear and mull over.
I am not speaking for Publishers, rather pointing out the obvious. They go towards the largest market, do you disagree? Do you even know how publishers these days operate or who is in charge?
From a game design perspective, it is harder to please PVE only fanboys, and it doesnt reach a wide audience. Studies have been done on what is most popular, and a mixture of pve and pvp is it. Publishers and even some development studios have entire departments dedicated to reaching the most people as possible and catering to the majority when preparing a project.
You will not see PvE only attempts being made because its a bad and stupid business move. MMORPGs are a high risk genre, unlike FPS and console games. When it comes to high risk genres, you dont do something stupid like make a PvE only game. Sorry you dont want to believe that, but its reality for ya.
A suggestion: learn to like pvp as well. If you dont, you will never be happy. I have a theory that most PvE only biased fanboys/girls tend to have insecurity issues when it comes to interaction. Playing and even losing to another play hurts their "confidence". Just my hypothesis though.
What it sounds like is that you are just never satisfied. You try to make it seem like there are tons of PVP focused games coming out, and thats not quite true. You just dismiss anything that has an equal focus of PvP. Again, read my comment about user generated content, its a design choice and one that is smart and cost effective.
Its time you learn to adapt and accept rather than complain.
You totally misunderstood him, so yes you where wrong.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I do also agree with OP, I would also like to have good PvE mmorpg.
I don't my self mind that there is PvP as long it's separated. As for balancing, sure it happens mostly because PvP, but it do also happen because PvE. So, as long both styles are seperated, then it's fine.
PS: WoW is not balanced and not PvE game. I'm pure PvE player and stop playing WoW in PvE server, because there was no PvE server. PvP flag system doesn't work in PvE server if it's done in priority of PvP first attitude.
I wonder why the OP even did this. It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever. They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD. ...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
All the games you listed are horrible. You have LOTRO, Vanguard, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons and how many more PvE games. You also have Final Fantasy XIV, DC Universe, and Star Wars: TOR coming out. PvPers still don't have a AAA title to call their own. Hopefully Guild Wars 2, APB, and Global Agenda can change that.
I wonder why the OP even did this. It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever. They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD. ...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Again, be careful what you wish for...
i'm pretty sure they didn't wish for a horrible game
You totally misunderstood him, so yes you where wrong.
You you just did! He was pretty clear on his "wants" and perceptions. Merely pointing out certain inconvienent information does not make my reply wrong. Second, to call this the year of PVP mmorpgs is silly at best, it shows one is not actually looking at reality. He dismisses anything with even the minescule option of pvp. The OP makes it quite clear in his topic that PvP imbalances games and that PVE only games can just focus on content. I pointed out where this mentality is wrong. First, just because you have a dev studio doesnt mean every developer can do any job within that studio. The content creating people will always be creating content. They will not be magically tossed around to work on pvp balance. It doesnt quite work that way. The OP also admits that when he runs out of content he leaves and waits till an expansion to come back. Do you understand what is wrong with this mentality in a business that focuses on active subscriptions? That lead to my point why mmorpgs cannot last long on just PVE alone. Content creation takes longer to make, its more expensive and AI is universally stupid because the technology cannot handle any form of advanced AI in a MMORPG game and expect it to be playable at the same time.
So no, I did address his misinformation and he didnt like what I had to say. That doesnt make me wrong, just that there is more to the business of making games than what a gamer imagines it should be.
Aion is supposed to be a AAA pvp centric game... the pve in that game was terrible to say the least, and I didn't really like the pvp either. On the other hand the last really good pve game was WoW or Lotro which are both 5 years old now. Aion + darkfall are both "open" world pvp games, problem with people who love pvp games is they get bored of the game really quick and need a new game every year.
Most developers and publishers are to frighten of WOW to dare touch a PVE oriented game atm. Thus - we see alot of PVP oreiented games that take most of the WOW stylish game and put it into niche PVP projects that simply turn out to be big failures. Main reason for them beeing failures is ofc that most of the MMO player market is looking for ... UPDATED WOW PVE content.
Better grahpics - more custimasation - more uniqe featuers. ALL of the PVP/RVR oriented games launched in last years have these...
But then they do the stupid part of trying to do "Massive" battles that lead to nothing but lag and server problems - instead of focusing on picking out the strong points of better graphics...
The sad thing about these PVP oriented games tho.. they do have a very bad AI and since content is "balanced" on PVP - they PVE becomes worthless to play.
Its sad that games like WAR and AOC would beat WOW hands down if they actually focused on creating PVE oriented gaming world. THey dont and thus they have a very small player base of griefers and Zergs. Thats not what gamers are looking for. Meeting other players online is usually the biggest reason why ppl play MMOs. And its much more fun to work WITH ppl online than try to "kill" them.
Until PvP is truly fleshed out from this superficial, backwater barbaric label of: full loot, death penalties, need for balance or artificial goals created by developers to tassel over, PvP will never be accepted as just being a part of all things MMO.
The day we can get developers to start making MMORPWs (Massively Multiplayer Role Playing World) instead of MMORPGs in the general sense we can move beyond these trivial spats of how PvP should be handled. Until developers inject MORAL penalties on a PvP driven player's character to follow that player around even after he caused a death of another and give meaning to the actual ACT of killing someone then players will decide what is worth fighting for and what is not.
That in itself would do much more for the genre that simply tacking on 4th wall penalties.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Again, be careful what you wish for...
i'm pretty sure they didn't wish for a horrible game
Sometimes what people wish for makes for a horrible game.
Comments
Vanguard is a very good game, I just wish people would get over its poor launch and give it a real chance.
no you either launch well or i'm not playing
if you want PVE just play a single player game
Vanguard is a very good game, I just wish people would get over its poor launch and give it a real chance.
For me Vanguard is the only MMO i ever played that went badder with every patch til i was unable to play more than 5 minutes in a row and then i quitted in very anger.
It could have been a great game but as many MMOs was very bad managed.
I tried the free trial much later but i had still bad feelings from my first experience with VG and there is only so much time to play one MMO so i decided to forget about it and never come back.
Lesson is not to drive you customers away in anger - they will remember that a very long time...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
if you want pvp play an fps or join the military
Hrmm. This post's whole premise is entirely subjective. That being said...
Would it work? Ultimately you keep subscriber's through gameplay that is exciting and accessible... but there's something about soloing and grouping, playing versus others and monsters, running around exploring the world and sitting inside a city chatting... there's something about the fullness that I personally find necessary to any MMO that should ever be released.
Now each title will cater to a certain audience more than other, that much is obvious. But if you wanted a 'more PvE focused game' (assuming no noteworthy title will *not* offer PvP), I'm sure something like FFXIV might be the present you're asking for this Christmas.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
if you want pvp play an fps or join the military
BOTH correct actually.
MMOs lack the complex AI of a single-player game, and typically the accessibility of PvP in an FPS in exchange for depth from item/territory/rank loss. The PvP in MMOs really isn't as good as it is in FPS games, but the FPS games need to find more and more reasons for people to keep playing past the game's prime (ranks and junk). Until we see a change to where both sides feel right, it's going to continue sucking.
I would like to state again from an earlier post in this thread that the only good point to MMO PvE has been raid boss scripting, giving it the feel and pace of an epic battle from a single-player game, stacked on top of the tank-n-spank methods I personally loathe. Anything short of those battles are just fodder for priming yourself for the best the game has to offer. I say the common fight with a mob needs more intricacy then "stand there and tradeoff damage". The genre needs intuitive blocking/dodging/striking, as well as enemies that show enough personality to require tactics (flanking, fleeing, etc). When that happens though, expect the pacing of advancement to change in the favor of speed as well (or else the effort-to-grind ratio breaks it).
PvP is only as good as a game's base combat. From there it really doesn't matter if it takes a long time to find or not, as either way usually speaks for a game's philosophy on how to handle loss. It's a quick affair with no downtime, or one of depth that takes searching and rewards victory far more.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
if you want pvp play an fps or join the military
People who want to play PVE centered games, don't want to play by themselves they just don't want to play AGAINST other players. There are a ton of things to do in a PVE focoused game which can be played with other players; Instances, dungeons, quests and trading...You don't need to have PVP in order to have an MMORPG..Those who think otherwise, should really evaluate their knowledge of this said genre.
if you want pvp play an fps or join the military
People who want to play PVE centered games, don't want to play by themselves they just don't want to play AGAINST other players. There are a ton of things to do in a PVE focoused game which can be played with other players; Instances, dungeons, quests and trading...You don't need to have PVP in order to have an MMORPG..Those who think otherwise, should really evaluate their knowledge of this said genre.
So true. Games like Ultima Online and a few others did well because they offered diversity; not killing monsters/players 99% of the time. Blacksmiths repairing weapons standing at the forge, talking to their customers. Training pets. Decorating your house or get people to visit your own vendors. Mine or chop wood for a new craft. Do player driven events. To sum it all up, interact with others, not chop their heads off.
Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained.
Played: almost all MMO pre 2007
if you want pvp play an fps or join the military
People who want to play PVE centered games, don't want to play by themselves they just don't want to play AGAINST other players. There are a ton of things to do in a PVE focoused game which can be played with other players; Instances, dungeons, quests and trading...You don't need to have PVP in order to have an MMORPG..Those who think otherwise, should really evaluate their knowledge of this said genre.
So true. Games like Ultima Online and a few others did well because they offered diversity; not killing monsters/players 99% of the time. Blacksmiths repairing weapons standing at the forge, talking to their customers. Training pets. Decorating your house or get people to visit your own vendors. Mine or chop wood for a new craft. Do player driven events. To sum it all up, interact with others, not chop their heads off.
But... everyone agrees the best times in UO where when you *could* chop anyone's head off, as well as steal. The diversity encompassed PvP too you know.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I wonder why the OP even did this.
It's not like it is going to change the Devs minds into making the best PvE game ever.
They're gonna continue doing what they want to do regardless if they see this thread or not, it isn't up to this community if the next game is either PVE or PVP XD.
...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
I also believe that developers do watch the forums here and other places to gather ideas, just like they play the competitors games to get ideas. With any luck maybe they will take some ideas that people post in these forums into consideration on future games. You never know.. stranger things have happened.
"...and no we will not let you have your PVE, for we have the power to do whatever we feel like doing bwuahahahaha!" <-- that line did give me a good chuckle though..lol
As a guy that's usually having to debate PVP'ers that keep demanding ffa PVP in games like LotRO, I'm in agreement. The trend has been going PVE for quite some time.
This has NOT been much of a year for PvP fans. WAR is falling apart, CO is barely mentionable, Aion is pretty dry on PvP from what I've hearing, and FE isn't without its issues. DFO's full loot policy has many players playing broken; running around in their skivvies.
Sure, PVE hasn't had much better a year, if at all, but WoW, CoX, and LotRO are still great options. PvP'ers got squat.
And with most everything coming next year being PVE based, it's the PVP'ers that deserve to make a thread like this one. So long as they voice their desire for their own PvP game and not the desire to gank hobbits in the Shire, I'm in full support.
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
All the games you listed are horrible.
You have LOTRO, Vanguard, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons and how many more PvE games. You also have Final Fantasy XIV, DC Universe, and Star Wars: TOR coming out.
PvPers still don't have a AAA title to call their own. Hopefully Guild Wars 2, APB, and Global Agenda can change that.
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Wow, was wondering how long it would be till this forum was trolled. I am glad you can speak for the publisher about it being a stupid idea to create a PVE game. Maybe there are more people out there that like PVE then you think, if there were not then games like EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, etc would not be out and still running.
Also I never said there were not any PVE games already out there. I said I would like a new PVE game. I don't recall any whining in my post either. Maybe you should re-read the post again. Personally attacking people because they do not like what you do is no way to solve an issue. If you disagree just state why and what you would like to see.
Vanguard, I have played and maxed out on, Conan I have played, but I do not like the fight controls in it. Fallen Earth I played the beta and the trial on , but it is just to buggy a game for me.
So because you think I am wrong I am there for a troll? Are you honestly going with that argument?
I'm not trying to be offensive here, but there are some things you need to hear and mull over.
I am not speaking for Publishers, rather pointing out the obvious. They go towards the largest market, do you disagree? Do you even know how publishers these days operate or who is in charge?
From a game design perspective, it is harder to please PVE only fanboys, and it doesnt reach a wide audience. Studies have been done on what is most popular, and a mixture of pve and pvp is it. Publishers and even some development studios have entire departments dedicated to reaching the most people as possible and catering to the majority when preparing a project.
You will not see PvE only attempts being made because its a bad and stupid business move. MMORPGs are a high risk genre, unlike FPS and console games. When it comes to high risk genres, you dont do something stupid like make a PvE only game. Sorry you dont want to believe that, but its reality for ya.
A suggestion: learn to like pvp as well. If you dont, you will never be happy. I have a theory that most PvE only biased fanboys/girls tend to have insecurity issues when it comes to interaction. Playing and even losing to another play hurts their "confidence". Just my hypothesis though.
What it sounds like is that you are just never satisfied. You try to make it seem like there are tons of PVP focused games coming out, and thats not quite true. You just dismiss anything that has an equal focus of PvP. Again, read my comment about user generated content, its a design choice and one that is smart and cost effective.
Its time you learn to adapt and accept rather than complain.
You totally misunderstood him, so yes you where wrong.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I do also agree with OP, I would also like to have good PvE mmorpg.
I don't my self mind that there is PvP as long it's separated. As for balancing, sure it happens mostly because PvP, but it do also happen because PvE. So, as long both styles are seperated, then it's fine.
PS: WoW is not balanced and not PvE game. I'm pure PvE player and stop playing WoW in PvE server, because there was no PvE server. PvP flag system doesn't work in PvE server if it's done in priority of PvP first attitude.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Again, be careful what you wish for...
yea we do it's called MW 2
Just to let you know, I did this because I wanted to state what I liked in a game and to see what others thought about the idea. I believe that a lot of people really would like a full PVE MMO, but it seems to me that the people who support PVP are always more vocal on the forums. Don't really know why that is, but it does seem to be the trend.
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Again, be careful what you wish for...
i'm pretty sure they didn't wish for a horrible game
You you just did! He was pretty clear on his "wants" and perceptions. Merely pointing out certain inconvienent information does not make my reply wrong. Second, to call this the year of PVP mmorpgs is silly at best, it shows one is not actually looking at reality. He dismisses anything with even the minescule option of pvp. The OP makes it quite clear in his topic that PvP imbalances games and that PVE only games can just focus on content. I pointed out where this mentality is wrong. First, just because you have a dev studio doesnt mean every developer can do any job within that studio. The content creating people will always be creating content. They will not be magically tossed around to work on pvp balance. It doesnt quite work that way. The OP also admits that when he runs out of content he leaves and waits till an expansion to come back. Do you understand what is wrong with this mentality in a business that focuses on active subscriptions? That lead to my point why mmorpgs cannot last long on just PVE alone. Content creation takes longer to make, its more expensive and AI is universally stupid because the technology cannot handle any form of advanced AI in a MMORPG game and expect it to be playable at the same time.
So no, I did address his misinformation and he didnt like what I had to say. That doesnt make me wrong, just that there is more to the business of making games than what a gamer imagines it should be.
Aion is supposed to be a AAA pvp centric game... the pve in that game was terrible to say the least, and I didn't really like the pvp either. On the other hand the last really good pve game was WoW or Lotro which are both 5 years old now. Aion + darkfall are both "open" world pvp games, problem with people who love pvp games is they get bored of the game really quick and need a new game every year.
Most developers and publishers are to frighten of WOW to dare touch a PVE oriented game atm. Thus - we see alot of PVP oreiented games that take most of the WOW stylish game and put it into niche PVP projects that simply turn out to be big failures. Main reason for them beeing failures is ofc that most of the MMO player market is looking for ... UPDATED WOW PVE content.
Better grahpics - more custimasation - more uniqe featuers. ALL of the PVP/RVR oriented games launched in last years have these...
But then they do the stupid part of trying to do "Massive" battles that lead to nothing but lag and server problems - instead of focusing on picking out the strong points of better graphics...
The sad thing about these PVP oriented games tho.. they do have a very bad AI and since content is "balanced" on PVP - they PVE becomes worthless to play.
Its sad that games like WAR and AOC would beat WOW hands down if they actually focused on creating PVE oriented gaming world. THey dont and thus they have a very small player base of griefers and Zergs. Thats not what gamers are looking for. Meeting other players online is usually the biggest reason why ppl play MMOs. And its much more fun to work WITH ppl online than try to "kill" them.
Until PvP is truly fleshed out from this superficial, backwater barbaric label of: full loot, death penalties, need for balance or artificial goals created by developers to tassel over, PvP will never be accepted as just being a part of all things MMO.
The day we can get developers to start making MMORPWs (Massively Multiplayer Role Playing World) instead of MMORPGs in the general sense we can move beyond these trivial spats of how PvP should be handled. Until developers inject MORAL penalties on a PvP driven player's character to follow that player around even after he caused a death of another and give meaning to the actual ACT of killing someone then players will decide what is worth fighting for and what is not.
That in itself would do much more for the genre that simply tacking on 4th wall penalties.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Their points are valid in terms of PvP disappearing. I think most devs have come to the conclusion that managing both PvP and PvE in a shared environment is too big a workload for one dev team. Everything is trending more toward either full PvP or little/no PvP, and only one of those formats has a track record for making big bucks.
IMO, most PvP chatter on the boards is just epeen nonsense. Pointless cries of carebear, PVE'ers are inferior gamers, etc... sure it gets old, but if devs are listening, the trend doesn't seem to indicate it.
IMO, many PvP'ers got what they wished for in Darkfall; an ideologically uncompromising PvP experience. No auto attack, no targetting, full loot, ffa PvP. As a result, players are playing in remarkably silly ways. An ultimate example in "be careful what you wish for"...
May it be covered in college sociology papers worldwide...
darkfall is a horrible game that's why people hate it
Again, be careful what you wish for...
i'm pretty sure they didn't wish for a horrible game
Sometimes what people wish for makes for a horrible game.