And I remember playing UO where death meant as much or as little as you let it. GM armor/weapons were easily replaced, regs and bandages were pretty inexpensive. You learned to carry no more then you were willing to give up without a tear. Or if you were with a partner or anyone that could rez was close by death meant nothing.
And grouping was something you did for fun not this hard coded scripted that X mob can't possible be killed alone. People teamed up to help keep each other alive not because they have to form set groups.
Nah, developers just realised that its alot more profitable to make games for people with lives, instead of people who have 10+ hours of free time per day.
Originally posted by Robsolf Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
Without a challenge to overcome and a risk assosiated with failing to overcome that challenge you might as well be watching tv.
Exactly.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to accomplish something in an mmo. There lots of singleplayer games that offer this kind of gameplay. Besides advancing one's character is basically akin to some sort of acomplishment. And without any risk these games would be completely dull and probably have few customers over the age of 12. Some of us have moved on from Super Mario Bros even though it's fun to return for the nostalgia every now and then.
If you don't want to accomplish anything or risk anything in an mmo fair enough. But don't call someone sad because they want some excitement and complexity to their games.
IMO, there's a big difference between accomplishing something and having a sense of accomplishment. I enjoy accomplishing things in LotRO, but I've never had a real sense of accomplishment in that or any other game. No game can really give me that. For me to feel a sense of accomplishment, I have to do something to make the REAL world a better place for AT LEAST one person.
There's a reason I don't put "Lord of Streams" or "Supreme Master Woodworker" in my resume'. And it has nothing to do with the amount of risk or challenge required to achieve those titles.
Originally posted by Robsolf Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Then I might suggest dropping the gaming and go for a 4.0.
Who uses games to get a sense of accomplishment. They are entertainment nothing more nothing less. Although i think there should be some penalty to dying why not just put it in raids so if you die in a raid you lose at least one piece of your gear.
You're telling me that if your group (perhaps I'm assuming too much here) defeats a tough boss together you don't feel a sense of accomplishment?
Why on Earth would you play a game that didn't give you any sense of accomplishment? For pretty pictures and cool sounds?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't know, it just seems most games lack any sort of feeling of danger these days.
I have to admit this is true. However, death penalty is somewhat separate from this.
It's only a penalty if you think it's a penalty.
For me, simple failure is its own penalty. It just is. But it seems that there are people who defiitely don't mind playing outside the thrust of the game rules and will kill themselves for a simple port to town.
However, for me, wow's death penalty and lotro's is just annoying as I hate running back to my corpse and I hate the downtime that lotro's gives.
I don't mind xp debt, xp loss and especially like Aion's because it's a choice of either xp debt or cash loss.
However there are some who think that those are too harsh.
But yeah, I want evil monsters that require groups to take down in all areas and if you aren't careful you can run into these and be wiped.
I remember in Lineage 2, when it launched, there were these walking trees in the swamp in the dark elf lands. They were quest mobs for higher lvl mages but could also be killed by groups of players. The thing is, the swamp, at that time, was VERY foggy. So you could accidentlaly run into these things if you weren't careful. It added a bit of excitement to the game, especially when you started hearing it's footsteps and you started madly looking around.
The original old forest in LOTRO also had danger as you could get lost and even accidentlaly run into some sort of evil huorn (not sure what they were called) that were elite mobs.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Who uses games to get a sense of accomplishment. They are entertainment nothing more nothing less. Although i think there should be some penalty to dying why not just put it in raids so if you die in a raid you lose at least one piece of your gear.
You're telling me that if your group (perhaps I'm assuming too much here) defeats a tough boss together you don't feel a sense of accomplishment?
Why on Earth would you play a game that didn't give you any sense of accomplishment? For pretty pictures and cool sounds?
Well, to play devil's advocate, why not? Or why not just for the sense of story? Don't assume that everybody values the same things as you and don't assume that others might not find value in something you never expected.
edit: this is sort of the problem with these games. Many peopel assume that their values or desires or interests are equally shared by everybody else.
I think we know well enough that that is just not the case.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Robsolf Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Then I might suggest dropping the gaming and go for a 4.0.
Some colleges are easier then others. A 3.8 at your community College is like a t9 raider in WoW.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
Originally posted by Sovrath I have to admit this is true. However, death penalty is somewhat separate from this. It's only a penalty if you think it's a penalty. For me, simple failure is its own penalty. It just is. But it seems that there are people who defiitely don't mind playing outside the thrust of the game rules and will kill themselves for a simple port to town.
I hate that 'death taxi' mechanic in WoW and some other games. It just screams 'your life is worthless'.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by Sovrath I have to admit this is true. However, death penalty is somewhat separate from this. It's only a penalty if you think it's a penalty. For me, simple failure is its own penalty. It just is. But it seems that there are people who defiitely don't mind playing outside the thrust of the game rules and will kill themselves for a simple port to town.
I hate that 'death taxi' mechanic in WoW and some other games. It just screams 'your life is worthless'.
It definitely feels like waste of time.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Robsolf Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Then I might suggest dropping the gaming and go for a 4.0.
I got a 4.0 last semester. 3 more semesters to go.
Sadly I cannot finish with a 4.0 due to already recieving a couple of B's
I gave up raiding in EQ to make time for studying.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Originally posted by Lexiscat Game: 1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement That's not "a game". A game is won or lost.It has a measure of success or failure.
That definition fits "play", but not "a game" 2 a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game "for gaining an end" meaning having the chance of success or failure.
Game means a lot of things, not just what you want it to mean. Depends on what kind of game you want to play, or like to play.
No, it doesn't in the context we are discussing.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Even if the game is crosswords there is still an element of competition. You compete with yourself to do better than the last time.
Right - competition. Which is what I said.
Note that you can do crosswords in a non-competitive way. By not tracking your time and trying to beat it, but just doing the puzzle. Just doing as much as you can and moving on to the next.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well, to play devil's advocate, why not? Or why not just for the sense of story?
Because that's not a game. A game is competitive. As someone else said - you might as well be watching TV or reading a book.
But the thing is you are caught up on the semantics of a word.
Ok, so it's not a game. For some who can think a bit more outside the box, it doesn't have to be a game. It can be a toy. Or just something else that they like.
Because it is very clear that other players are finding other experienes in these worlds that fall outside of what a game is.
To then take it to the next level, some people are very interested in the social aspects. Heck, if you listen to the old swg players they say that it was the unique social aspects that made swg the "game" that it was.
Well, being social does not mean that one has to be in competition. There "can" be competition but it seems that being social is a way for players to enjoy the world in a way that is very personal.
So though you might have to have competition in your mmo's my sense is that others have found ways to enjoy these worlds that have greater resonance with their own unique sensibilities.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by championsFan Name one MMO with no death penalty? Champions Online has no death penalty, you instantly reload about 30 seconds away from where you died. Big villains will regain part of their health if teamates die, so zerging is not a viable strategy for raid bosses etc, but players are not penalized for dying.
Sounds like a penalty to me. A penalty does not ONLY mean a "-1" on your player sheet.
I assume none of you grew up on playing mega man, and no, not mega man 9. One.
The rest of the posts in this thread, are hitting a new high in "Retarded". What fantasy world do you people live in? You are severely detached.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by Sovrath But the thing is you are caught up on the semantics of a word. Ok, so it's not a game. For some who can think a bit more outside the box, it doesn't have to be a game. It can be a toy. Or just something else that they like.
Absolutely, but don't call it a game - which is what the thread is about.
Painting is a fun activity for many people, but unless it is some form of competition - say for a prize for best painting - it isn't a game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Comments
And I remember playing UO where death meant as much or as little as you let it. GM armor/weapons were easily replaced, regs and bandages were pretty inexpensive. You learned to carry no more then you were willing to give up without a tear. Or if you were with a partner or anyone that could rez was close by death meant nothing.
And grouping was something you did for fun not this hard coded scripted that X mob can't possible be killed alone. People teamed up to help keep each other alive not because they have to form set groups.
I'm so fed up of this stupid cliche.
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Without a challenge to overcome and a risk assosiated with failing to overcome that challenge you might as well be watching tv.
Exactly.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to accomplish something in an mmo. There lots of singleplayer games that offer this kind of gameplay. Besides advancing one's character is basically akin to some sort of acomplishment. And without any risk these games would be completely dull and probably have few customers over the age of 12. Some of us have moved on from Super Mario Bros even though it's fun to return for the nostalgia every now and then.
If you don't want to accomplish anything or risk anything in an mmo fair enough. But don't call someone sad because they want some excitement and complexity to their games.
IMO, there's a big difference between accomplishing something and having a sense of accomplishment. I enjoy accomplishing things in LotRO, but I've never had a real sense of accomplishment in that or any other game. No game can really give me that. For me to feel a sense of accomplishment, I have to do something to make the REAL world a better place for AT LEAST one person.
There's a reason I don't put "Lord of Streams" or "Supreme Master Woodworker" in my resume'. And it has nothing to do with the amount of risk or challenge required to achieve those titles.
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Then I might suggest dropping the gaming and go for a 4.0.
You're telling me that if your group (perhaps I'm assuming too much here) defeats a tough boss together you don't feel a sense of accomplishment?
Why on Earth would you play a game that didn't give you any sense of accomplishment? For pretty pictures and cool sounds?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I have to admit this is true. However, death penalty is somewhat separate from this.
It's only a penalty if you think it's a penalty.
For me, simple failure is its own penalty. It just is. But it seems that there are people who defiitely don't mind playing outside the thrust of the game rules and will kill themselves for a simple port to town.
However, for me, wow's death penalty and lotro's is just annoying as I hate running back to my corpse and I hate the downtime that lotro's gives.
I don't mind xp debt, xp loss and especially like Aion's because it's a choice of either xp debt or cash loss.
However there are some who think that those are too harsh.
But yeah, I want evil monsters that require groups to take down in all areas and if you aren't careful you can run into these and be wiped.
I remember in Lineage 2, when it launched, there were these walking trees in the swamp in the dark elf lands. They were quest mobs for higher lvl mages but could also be killed by groups of players. The thing is, the swamp, at that time, was VERY foggy. So you could accidentlaly run into these things if you weren't careful. It added a bit of excitement to the game, especially when you started hearing it's footsteps and you started madly looking around.
The original old forest in LOTRO also had danger as you could get lost and even accidentlaly run into some sort of evil huorn (not sure what they were called) that were elite mobs.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You're telling me that if your group (perhaps I'm assuming too much here) defeats a tough boss together you don't feel a sense of accomplishment?
Why on Earth would you play a game that didn't give you any sense of accomplishment? For pretty pictures and cool sounds?
Well, to play devil's advocate, why not? Or why not just for the sense of story? Don't assume that everybody values the same things as you and don't assume that others might not find value in something you never expected.
edit: this is sort of the problem with these games. Many peopel assume that their values or desires or interests are equally shared by everybody else.
I think we know well enough that that is just not the case.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Then I might suggest dropping the gaming and go for a 4.0.
Some colleges are easier then others. A 3.8 at your community College is like a t9 raider in WoW.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
I hate that 'death taxi' mechanic in WoW and some other games. It just screams 'your life is worthless'.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I hate that 'death taxi' mechanic in WoW and some other games. It just screams 'your life is worthless'.
It definitely feels like waste of time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
Vidio games is hardly everything I do. The drive to seek a challenge is something that follows me everywhere in life.
My currently challenge is to completely rework my life. To change direction completely and assume a new career. As such one of my current goals is to graduate college at 40 with at least a 3.8 gpa, while taking the most challeging courseload available.
It is a very difficult goal, with a high risk of failure. It has both a high penalty if I do fail and a high reward if I succeed.
When I go online to game, I look for the same risk and the same reward.
Then I might suggest dropping the gaming and go for a 4.0.
I got a 4.0 last semester. 3 more semesters to go.
Sadly I cannot finish with a 4.0 due to already recieving a couple of B's
I gave up raiding in EQ to make time for studying.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Everyone bow to this man. His word is THE word!
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Game:
1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement
2 a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game
Game means a lot of things, not just what you want it to mean. Depends on what kind of game you want to play, or like to play.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
Game:
1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement
2 a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game
Game means a lot of things, not just what you want it to mean. Depends on what kind of game you want to play, or like to play.
Wrong Toquio3. /// HIS /// word is THE word....the word of Webster.....
Even if the game is crosswords there is still an element of competition.
You compete with yourself to do better than the last time.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Game:
1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement
2 a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game
Game means a lot of things, not just what you want it to mean. Depends on what kind of game you want to play, or like to play.
Wrong Toquio3. /// HIS /// word is THE word....the word of Webster.....
Yes, agreed, Lexiscat makes alot more sense than MMO_Doubter
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
No, it doesn't in the context we are discussing.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Right - competition. Which is what I said.
Note that you can do crosswords in a non-competitive way. By not tracking your time and trying to beat it, but just doing the puzzle. Just doing as much as you can and moving on to the next.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I 100% agree.
topmost superhit tip to game developers,hire some paper & pen Dungeon Masters and we might have some kind of future here.
Generation P
But the thing is you are caught up on the semantics of a word.
Ok, so it's not a game. For some who can think a bit more outside the box, it doesn't have to be a game. It can be a toy. Or just something else that they like.
Because it is very clear that other players are finding other experienes in these worlds that fall outside of what a game is.
To then take it to the next level, some people are very interested in the social aspects. Heck, if you listen to the old swg players they say that it was the unique social aspects that made swg the "game" that it was.
Well, being social does not mean that one has to be in competition. There "can" be competition but it seems that being social is a way for players to enjoy the world in a way that is very personal.
So though you might have to have competition in your mmo's my sense is that others have found ways to enjoy these worlds that have greater resonance with their own unique sensibilities.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sounds like a penalty to me. A penalty does not ONLY mean a "-1" on your player sheet.
I assume none of you grew up on playing mega man, and no, not mega man 9. One.
The rest of the posts in this thread, are hitting a new high in "Retarded". What fantasy world do you people live in? You are severely detached.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Absolutely, but don't call it a game - which is what the thread is about.
Painting is a fun activity for many people, but unless it is some form of competition - say for a prize for best painting - it isn't a game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I 100% agree.
topmost superhit tip to game developers,hire some paper & pen Dungeon Masters and we might have some kind of future here.
I spent over a decade as a PnP DM. I also ran Rolemaster, Shadowrun, Champions, GURPS,
Vampire / Werewolf / Mage (both tabletop and LARP), organize Warhammer campaigns, and ran countless others.
Trust me, a game where the players face no danger gets stale very rapidly.
If I could find a group of players in the area I live now, I would start up a Dungeon Hack campaign.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin