In Diablo 2 pre-lod, once doing Cow runs in Hell difficulty stopped giving decent experience, people were forced to play in the Sanctuary. But Sanctuary was harder than Cow level and people needed good elemental resistances and better gear in general.
It was much easier to die in Sanctuary. If people wanted to keep leveling up their characters, the only way was doing Sanctuary runs, that was around level 87-88.
The thing is, in Diablo 2 pre-lod, there was a xp death penalty, people would lose a certain % of their xp if they died and at the levels mentioned, around 88 and beyond, it would mean a hours of grind, but its ok, since in Diablo 2, the gameplay was superb and hacking and slashing things over and over for loot was its distinctive mark.
Diablo 2 also had a ladder, and you could see the higher level characters and even though hundreds of thousands of players played the game, when people reached around level 86-88, they kind of stopped progressing, because they wouldnt be competent enough to get more XP they they would lose. A player who could play in Sanctuary for hours without dieing would keep leveling up, to level 89-90-91 and so on... 6 months after the start of Battle.net we still didnt had a level 99 due to this mechanic.
People could still get more power from gear. People still could compete in PVP. People still could defeat all the quests and bosses in all levels of difficulty.
What death penalty meant was that PEOPLE COULDNT ALL REACH LEVEL CAP.
This served the purpose of segregating competent players from the hommer simpson players "duh, died again damnit!".
A player who had his name in the top 100 Ladder of his class in his server was a true hero, it was someone who achieved something the hundreds of others couldnt, not because he spent more time and effort, but because he was good at the game to the point he would die less than everyone else, he would lose less xp than he would win, to the point when he would level up.
Diablo 2 pre-lod achieved this by coincidence.
When LOD came, the players got overpowered and the new areas gave too much xp, so reaching level 99 was infinitelly easier AND POINTLESS.
In Diablo 3, there wont be any mechanic in place to prevent everyone from being a hero, so in the end, noone will be. Unlike in Diablo 2 pre-lod, when if your name was in the Ladder, it meant something. It wasnt about your power, it was about achieving something only available to the best players and people knew that.
You don't get heroes from overcoming penalties, you get heroes when somebody breaks the mold.
it is particularly difficult to be a hero in a game specifically designed to give the same experience to everyone. You can't push boundaries on a roller coaster track.
Nah, developers just realised that its alot more profitable to make games for people with lives, instead of people who have 10+ hours of free time per day.
For people who suck, or are idiots?
Whenever you people talk about these "lives", that is how I parse that..
Lives | Casuals = Suck at game
And people who are skilled and smart enough to avoid death penalties, they have no lives? Lol
Death penalties encouraged interaction between players. Most people would try to find rez's when they died (have to go find a cleric or paladin).
And people who played in games w/ death penalties didn't die every 5 minutes like the people with "Lives" in WoW.
Spending lots of time doing somethign essentially simple does not equate to skill or difficulty. It never has and it never will. Its not that its difficult sitting around for 10 min every fight or spending an hr traveling. Its that most people just aren't willing to do it not because they can't, but because they smart enough to realize its a waste of their time. Mindless time sinks like heavy penalties are just that...for the mindless with too much time on their hands. When you start putting too much value on a videgame, its time to step away, because you've crossed over into crazy land=)
Originally posted by Ginkeq Death penalties encouraged interaction between players. Most people would try to find rez's when they died (have to go find a cleric or paladin).
LOL ... if you have death penalty, people will rage quit the first time they wipe.
I remember playing EQ and there were some pretty stiff death penalties. You lost everything you were carrying, all your gear, and you had to do a corpse run to get your stuff back. If you died some where nasty and dangerous, it could be quite a challenge to get your gear back. And there was a timer, so if you didn't get it in a couple of days, all your stuff disappeared. And grouping was important. Not the sort of Zerg feeling of WoW pre-raid game, but a real coordinated effort, with very little room for error, and lots of coordination was required in EQ. Many times when it looked like a party wipe, the Tank would hold off the mob while everyone else made a run for it. The tank would die, taking one for the team, and hoping everyone would come back and give him a rez, or at least help him get his stuff back. And you appreciated that a player was willing to die so you could get away. But these days, it doesn't really seem to matter. The coordination isn't that tight, and a party wipe doesn't mean much except a quick jaunt back to where you were quest grinding, if you even bother to do that. You might as well just head off adn do something else, it's not like the group xp will level you that much quicker, and it's not like you really need the help for anything, and you can always just join another zerg group later, if you feel like it. I don't know, it just seems most games lack any sort of feeling of danger these days.
OH! You mean a strict "waste my time unless I have 8 hours a day", death penalty. I understand. Games are for fun and entertainment. Try not to forget this.
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
I prefer to accomplish in real life rather then in a world made of pixels. Games are supposed to be fun and not a second job. Some of us have to work 8 to 10 hrs a day for living. Not all of us live on government aid and can afford to spend 8 hrs a day on a video game. Ever heard of a thing called job?
Comments
In Diablo 2 pre-lod, once doing Cow runs in Hell difficulty stopped giving decent experience, people were forced to play in the Sanctuary. But Sanctuary was harder than Cow level and people needed good elemental resistances and better gear in general.
It was much easier to die in Sanctuary. If people wanted to keep leveling up their characters, the only way was doing Sanctuary runs, that was around level 87-88.
The thing is, in Diablo 2 pre-lod, there was a xp death penalty, people would lose a certain % of their xp if they died and at the levels mentioned, around 88 and beyond, it would mean a hours of grind, but its ok, since in Diablo 2, the gameplay was superb and hacking and slashing things over and over for loot was its distinctive mark.
Diablo 2 also had a ladder, and you could see the higher level characters and even though hundreds of thousands of players played the game, when people reached around level 86-88, they kind of stopped progressing, because they wouldnt be competent enough to get more XP they they would lose. A player who could play in Sanctuary for hours without dieing would keep leveling up, to level 89-90-91 and so on... 6 months after the start of Battle.net we still didnt had a level 99 due to this mechanic.
People could still get more power from gear. People still could compete in PVP. People still could defeat all the quests and bosses in all levels of difficulty.
What death penalty meant was that PEOPLE COULDNT ALL REACH LEVEL CAP.
This served the purpose of segregating competent players from the hommer simpson players "duh, died again damnit!".
A player who had his name in the top 100 Ladder of his class in his server was a true hero, it was someone who achieved something the hundreds of others couldnt, not because he spent more time and effort, but because he was good at the game to the point he would die less than everyone else, he would lose less xp than he would win, to the point when he would level up.
Diablo 2 pre-lod achieved this by coincidence.
When LOD came, the players got overpowered and the new areas gave too much xp, so reaching level 99 was infinitelly easier AND POINTLESS.
In Diablo 3, there wont be any mechanic in place to prevent everyone from being a hero, so in the end, noone will be. Unlike in Diablo 2 pre-lod, when if your name was in the Ladder, it meant something. It wasnt about your power, it was about achieving something only available to the best players and people knew that.
You don't get heroes from overcoming penalties, you get heroes when somebody breaks the mold.
it is particularly difficult to be a hero in a game specifically designed to give the same experience to everyone. You can't push boundaries on a roller coaster track.
We are no heroes in the MMO's we play for way other reason than the death penalty. We are nothing more than cannon fodder in whatsoever game we play.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
For people who suck, or are idiots?
Whenever you people talk about these "lives", that is how I parse that..
Lives | Casuals = Suck at game
And people who are skilled and smart enough to avoid death penalties, they have no lives? Lol
Death penalties encouraged interaction between players. Most people would try to find rez's when they died (have to go find a cleric or paladin).
And people who played in games w/ death penalties didn't die every 5 minutes like the people with "Lives" in WoW.
Sorry but EQ was not that great of a game.
Spending lots of time doing somethign essentially simple does not equate to skill or difficulty. It never has and it never will. Its not that its difficult sitting around for 10 min every fight or spending an hr traveling. Its that most people just aren't willing to do it not because they can't, but because they smart enough to realize its a waste of their time. Mindless time sinks like heavy penalties are just that...for the mindless with too much time on their hands. When you start putting too much value on a videgame, its time to step away, because you've crossed over into crazy land=)
LOL ... if you have death penalty, people will rage quit the first time they wipe.
Seriously? Another solo vs. group topic? Maybe you missed this.www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/263753/The-Group-Play-vs-Solo-Play-in-an-MMO-Thread.html
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
I prefer to accomplish in real life rather then in a world made of pixels. Games are supposed to be fun and not a second job. Some of us have to work 8 to 10 hrs a day for living. Not all of us live on government aid and can afford to spend 8 hrs a day on a video game. Ever heard of a thing called job?
I prefer accomplishment in a world made of pixels then no accomplishment at all.