This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Solo-centric games? Yes. Solo-centric triple-a mmorpgs? No. Solo-friendly? Yes. Solo-friendly is not the same as solo-centric.
Incorrect. When given the option, players take the path of least resistance. When you can do 90% of the content by yourself, people will, and there will be no social or group community within the game. Case and point, the last 5 years of MMORPG gaming.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? Didn't they still work hard? didn't they still excel in their field?
I don't want to be able to solo a dungeon that takes a 25 man raid... But I want a way to fight and toil to earn the same rewards on my own if I decide to play that way.
Btw, I group up all the time, and run my own guild. I'm not anti social. I just HATE raids, they're lame, boring, no fun, require no skill, just mad amounts of time.
Well Michael Jordan does not play the same game Tiger Woods does. Both cannot coexists in the same game. I though you guys meant like in wow.
Well if it's like that then I guess I'm sorry for you but there aren't any game out there for you and I don't think it will ever be. I don't get it why Cephus says (There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.) No they are not.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Yup. The whole reason they stickied this thread was because rabid groupers like Imhotepp posted thread after thread after thread after thread about how much he wanted a group-centric game. To be honest, I don't recall a single thread started by a soloer complaining we needed more solo-centric games.
That's because all MMOs for the past 5 years have been solo centric games, with the largest biggest budget in MMO history coming out soon, will be entirely solo centric.
You get tons of threads asking for group focused MMOs because that's the way MMOs were originally meant to be played, and they aren't made that way very often anymore.
Yes, Aion and Warhammer were designed for mass pvp, involving one person. And SWTOR is going to be a solo game... despite all that the devs have said about grouping up... fortunately we have you to set us straight.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
And yet you people keep claiming that it won't... strange, it almost sounds like you're completely wrong... weird.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Yup. The whole reason they stickied this thread was because rabid groupers like Imhotepp posted thread after thread after thread after thread about how much he wanted a group-centric game. To be honest, I don't recall a single thread started by a soloer complaining we needed more solo-centric games.
That's because all MMOs for the past 5 years have been solo centric games, with the largest biggest budget in MMO history coming out soon, will be entirely solo centric.
You get tons of threads asking for group focused MMOs because that's the way MMOs were originally meant to be played, and they aren't made that way very often anymore.
Yes, Aion and Warhammer were designed for mass pvp, involving one person. And SWTOR is going to be a solo game... despite all that the devs have said about grouping up... fortunately we have you to set us straight.
SWTOR devs - "95% of our content will be soloable" they give you NPC companions and healers, the storyline (the main point of the game) takes place in scripted instances, and since there' isn't much persistant world, all of your groups will be formed likely with real life friends. More Diablo than MMO.
Warhammer PvE was designed for you to do all by yourself. Thank you for helping prove my point.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Yup. The whole reason they stickied this thread was because rabid groupers like Imhotepp posted thread after thread after thread after thread about how much he wanted a group-centric game. To be honest, I don't recall a single thread started by a soloer complaining we needed more solo-centric games.
That's because all MMOs for the past 5 years have been solo centric games, with the largest biggest budget in MMO history coming out soon, will be entirely solo centric.
You get tons of threads asking for group focused MMOs because that's the way MMOs were originally meant to be played, and they aren't made that way very often anymore.
Yes, Aion and Warhammer were designed for mass pvp, involving one person. And SWTOR is going to be a solo game... despite all that the devs have said about grouping up... fortunately we have you to set us straight.
SWTOR devs - "95% of our content will be soloable" they give you NPC companions and healers, the storyline (the main point of the game) takes place in scripted instances, and since there' isn't much persistant world, all of your groups will be formed likely with real life friends. More Diablo than MMO.
Warhammer PvE was designed for you to do all by yourself. Thank you for helping prove my point.
And Aion is an an outlier.
Exactly how much persistant world will there be in SWTOR? Oh, that's right... you have no idea and you're talking out of your ass. Got it.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
Originally posted by Garvon3 Originally posted by z80paranoia
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by z80paranoia This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere. Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Solo-centric games? Yes. Solo-centric triple-a mmorpgs? No. Solo-friendly? Yes. Solo-friendly is not the same as solo-centric. Incorrect. When given the option, players take the path of least resistance. When you can do 90% of the content by yourself, people will, and there will be no social or group community within the game. Case and point, the last 5 years of MMORPG gaming. I don't get the distinct impression that you understood my post. Your response doesn't follow.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? Didn't they still work hard? didn't they still excel in their field?
I don't want to be able to solo a dungeon that takes a 25 man raid... But I want a way to fight and toil to earn the same rewards on my own if I decide to play that way.
Btw, I group up all the time, and run my own guild. I'm not anti social. I just HATE raids, they're lame, boring, no fun, require no skill, just mad amounts of time.
Well Michael Jordan does not play the same game Tiger Woods does. Both cannot coexists in the same game. I though you guys meant like in wow.
Well if it's like that then I guess I'm sorry for you but there aren't any game out there for you and I don't think it will ever be. I don't get it why Cephus says (There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.) No they are not.
Ok, i'll speak in wow terms that you can understand. Michael Jordon plays in 25 man dungeons. Tiger Woods quests and does BG's. They both get leet gear.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? Didn't they still work hard? didn't they still excel in their field?
I don't want to be able to solo a dungeon that takes a 25 man raid... But I want a way to fight and toil to earn the same rewards on my own if I decide to play that way.
Btw, I group up all the time, and run my own guild. I'm not anti social. I just HATE raids, they're lame, boring, no fun, require no skill, just mad amounts of time.
Well Michael Jordan does not play the same game Tiger Woods does. Both cannot coexists in the same game. I though you guys meant like in wow.
Well if it's like that then I guess I'm sorry for you but there aren't any game out there for you and I don't think it will ever be. I don't get it why Cephus says (There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.) No they are not.
Ok, i'll speak in wow terms that you can understand. Michael Jordon plays in 25 man dungeons. Tiger Woods quests and does BG's. They both get leet gear.
Ffs they play different games. You can't solo in a basketball match and expect to win the cup. What kind of analogy is that.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
Again, your arguments are at odds with reality.
I do solo quests in groups all the time. Why? a) It can be fun. b) it can be faster.
Originally posted by Garvon3 Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Edli
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by z80paranoia
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere. Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping. Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get. I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? That analogy is so bad it hurts my head. In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group. If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it. I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap. You've described the mmorpg of my dreams. One that doesn't require grouping of any sort. One where I can advance alone to the fullest (gear-wise) yet still get the entertainment (not available in single player games)of seeing other players running about trading and chatting in a big open persistent world and otherwise has the features normally expected of quality fantasy mmorpgs.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
You've described the mmorpg of my dreams. One that doesn't require grouping of any sort. One where I can advance alone to the fullest (gear-wise) yet still get the entertainment (not available in single player games)of seeing other players running about trading and chatting in a big open persistent world and otherwise has the features normally expected of quality fantasy mmorpgs.
Er... I don't think thats anything like I described.
What YOU described is virtually every single MMORPG on the market at the moment. Sounds like you want to play a single player RPG with scripted NPCs running by now and then to make the world seem alive.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? Didn't they still work hard? didn't they still excel in their field?
I don't want to be able to solo a dungeon that takes a 25 man raid... But I want a way to fight and toil to earn the same rewards on my own if I decide to play that way.
Btw, I group up all the time, and run my own guild. I'm not anti social. I just HATE raids, they're lame, boring, no fun, require no skill, just mad amounts of time.
So nice to see someone with a similar view point as me. I can't stand raids. Grouping is great, solo is ok, raids are not for me.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? Didn't they still work hard? didn't they still excel in their field?
I don't want to be able to solo a dungeon that takes a 25 man raid... But I want a way to fight and toil to earn the same rewards on my own if I decide to play that way.
Btw, I group up all the time, and run my own guild. I'm not anti social. I just HATE raids, they're lame, boring, no fun, require no skill, just mad amounts of time.
So nice to see someone with a similar view point as me. I can't stand raids. Grouping is great, solo is ok, raids are not for me.
You realize that the majority of well designed MMORPGs already have multiple ways to get high end items? Only cheap WoW/EQ clones with the generic gear raid treadmill have this design flaw.
SWTOR devs - "95% of our content will be soloable" they give you NPC companions and healers, the storyline (the main point of the game) takes place in scripted instances, and since there' isn't much persistant world, all of your groups will be formed likely with real life friends. More Diablo than MMO.
Warhammer PvE was designed for you to do all by yourself. Thank you for helping prove my point.
And Aion is an an outlier.
Now the only game here I can comment on is WAR. Now while I agree most of the PvE regular quests re made for soloing. There are some that are not though. A large portion of the PvE is PQs though which are not made for soloing. Well some claim for 2-3 players but are really quite soloable. 2/3 of PQs are not made for soloing though. Warhammer is in no way a completely solo game. Does it require large amounts of interaction with other players NO. It is not a completely solo game though. Anyone trying to use it to make the claim that solo in the only play style being catered to in todays games needs to find a different game to use.
WAR is an even worse example when you look at the fact that most of the best gear comes from basically RAIDS at end game, or PVP which is mostly RVR and scenerios. Now scenarios often times at least on the chaos end look like 12 people trying to solo, but they go much better if you work together and communicate. During the leveling process good gear also comes from the normal and hard PQs which are made for groups. So basically almost none of the best gear comes from soloing at any level.
I think the information age has a lot to do with it. When the internet first started and online gaming was in it's infancy, players relied upon one another just to learn to play the games. You couldn't set up your hotkeys or macros without other players helping you out. There were really no maps or quest markers or anything like that. Nowadays you just have to google something and within 10 miniutes or less you can find all the macroing, questing, or anything else you need to know about the games, assuming they've been out for any length of time.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone? Didn't they still work hard? didn't they still excel in their field?
I don't want to be able to solo a dungeon that takes a 25 man raid... But I want a way to fight and toil to earn the same rewards on my own if I decide to play that way.
Btw, I group up all the time, and run my own guild. I'm not anti social. I just HATE raids, they're lame, boring, no fun, require no skill, just mad amounts of time.
So nice to see someone with a similar view point as me. I can't stand raids. Grouping is great, solo is ok, raids are not for me.
You realize that the majority of well designed MMORPGs already have multiple ways to get high end items? Only cheap WoW/EQ clones with the generic gear raid treadmill have this design flaw.
I am aware. I don't play WoW. Never played EQ. Does that mean I can't hate raiding? Thats all I meant. Did I say anything in my post that said I thought all gear that was worthwhile currently comes from raids in all games?
Ahh I see it is his second paragraph that must have made you think that. Wanting to make sure there are multiple avenues to gain the gear/wealth/status you want does not mean you don't realize it exists in some games.
Originally posted by Garvon3 Originally posted by z80paranoia
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Edli
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by z80paranoia
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere. Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head. In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it. I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
You've described the mmorpg of my dreams. One that doesn't require grouping of any sort. One where I can advance alone to the fullest (gear-wise) yet still get the entertainment (not available in single player games)of seeing other players running about trading and chatting in a big open persistent world and otherwise has the features normally expected of quality fantasy mmorpgs.
Er... I don't think thats anything like I described.
What YOU described is virtually every single MMORPG on the market at the moment. Sounds like you want to play a single player RPG with scripted NPCs running by now and then to make the world seem alive.
I see, you just misrepresented my post on purpose. Duly noted. But in every triple-a mmorpg out, including WoW, the best gear requires grouping, therefore you are wrong. I'll continue this discussion with someone that understands the subject matter.
This is a contradiction, if soloing is a smaller option, then the detriment is to the soloers. No wonder soloers cry for a solo-centric mmorpg.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
You've described the mmorpg of my dreams. One that doesn't require grouping of any sort. One where I can advance alone to the fullest (gear-wise) yet still get the entertainment (not available in single player games)of seeing other players running about trading and chatting in a big open persistent world and otherwise has the features normally expected of quality fantasy mmorpgs.
Er... I don't think thats anything like I described.
What YOU described is virtually every single MMORPG on the market at the moment. Sounds like you want to play a single player RPG with scripted NPCs running by now and then to make the world seem alive.
I see, you just misrepresented my post on purpose. Duly noted. But in every triple-a mmorpg out, including WoW, the best gear requires grouping, therefore you are wrong. I'll continue this discussion with someone that understands the subject matter.
That's going to eliminate 90% of those who have posted in this thread....
To be honest, I don't recall a single thread started by a soloer complaining we needed more solo-centric games. If someone wants to point one out to me, fine.
Now I know you're a soloer thus obviously incapable of social empathy with your fellow man, so I'll try and make this simple so you might be able to understand. If the groupers are asking for a group-based game to be made, and the soloers are content with what they have, what does that mean?
tl;dr thread. There is a reason they are called MMOs. That SHOULD kinda give it away that your not gonna be able to solo the whole damn game, people need to get real.
There is a reason they are called MMOs. That SHOULD kinda give it away that your not gonna be able to solo the whole damn game, people need to get real.
No! MMO's let you solo so I should be able to solo all the time wherever I want to go! And I should be able to get everything on my own! I should be able to get raid gear on my own because it's not fair that raiders can get it so I want it and don't want to fight those stupid raid mobs for it! I want special treatment, the developers should make side quests so I can get raid stuff! And groupers are stinky! I don't want them near me! I want a new game where everyone solos and we all get neat stuff on our own and don't even need to talk to each other! Yeah! And.. *cough*cough*
Oh, excuse me, I was possessed by the soul of a soloer there for a moment. Did I say anything stupid?
To be honest, I don't recall a single thread started by a soloer complaining we needed more solo-centric games. If someone wants to point one out to me, fine.
Now I know you're a soloer thus obviously incapable of social empathy with your fellow man, so I'll try and make this simple so you might be able to understand. If the groupers are asking for a group-based game to be made, and the soloers are content with what they have, what does that mean?
You don't get granted a game simply because you want one, you have to *EARN* it. You have to *PROVE* that you deserve it by demonstrating to developers that making such a game would be financially viable. It has nothing to do with empathy, ith as to do with being fiscally worthwhile.
Stop acting like you're somehow entitled to get your way.
Comments
Incorrect. When given the option, players take the path of least resistance. When you can do 90% of the content by yourself, people will, and there will be no social or group community within the game. Case and point, the last 5 years of MMORPG gaming.
Well Michael Jordan does not play the same game Tiger Woods does. Both cannot coexists in the same game. I though you guys meant like in wow.
Well if it's like that then I guess I'm sorry for you but there aren't any game out there for you and I don't think it will ever be. I don't get it why Cephus says (There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.) No they are not.
Yes, Aion and Warhammer were designed for mass pvp, involving one person. And SWTOR is going to be a solo game... despite all that the devs have said about grouping up... fortunately we have you to set us straight.
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
And yet you people keep claiming that it won't... strange, it almost sounds like you're completely wrong... weird.
SWTOR devs - "95% of our content will be soloable" they give you NPC companions and healers, the storyline (the main point of the game) takes place in scripted instances, and since there' isn't much persistant world, all of your groups will be formed likely with real life friends. More Diablo than MMO.
Warhammer PvE was designed for you to do all by yourself. Thank you for helping prove my point.
And Aion is an an outlier.
Exactly how much persistant world will there be in SWTOR? Oh, that's right... you have no idea and you're talking out of your ass. Got it.
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Solo-centric games? Yes. Solo-centric triple-a mmorpgs? No. Solo-friendly? Yes. Solo-friendly is not the same as solo-centric.
Incorrect. When given the option, players take the path of least resistance. When you can do 90% of the content by yourself, people will, and there will be no social or group community within the game. Case and point, the last 5 years of MMORPG gaming.
I don't get the distinct impression that you understood my post. Your response doesn't follow.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
Ok, i'll speak in wow terms that you can understand. Michael Jordon plays in 25 man dungeons. Tiger Woods quests and does BG's. They both get leet gear.
Ffs they play different games. You can't solo in a basketball match and expect to win the cup. What kind of analogy is that.
Again, your arguments are at odds with reality.
I do solo quests in groups all the time. Why? a) It can be fun. b) it can be faster.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
You've described the mmorpg of my dreams. One that doesn't require grouping of any sort. One where I can advance alone to the fullest (gear-wise) yet still get the entertainment (not available in single player games)of seeing other players running about trading and chatting in a big open persistent world and otherwise has the features normally expected of quality fantasy mmorpgs.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
Er... I don't think thats anything like I described.
What YOU described is virtually every single MMORPG on the market at the moment. Sounds like you want to play a single player RPG with scripted NPCs running by now and then to make the world seem alive.
So nice to see someone with a similar view point as me. I can't stand raids. Grouping is great, solo is ok, raids are not for me.
You realize that the majority of well designed MMORPGs already have multiple ways to get high end items? Only cheap WoW/EQ clones with the generic gear raid treadmill have this design flaw.
Now the only game here I can comment on is WAR. Now while I agree most of the PvE regular quests re made for soloing. There are some that are not though. A large portion of the PvE is PQs though which are not made for soloing. Well some claim for 2-3 players but are really quite soloable. 2/3 of PQs are not made for soloing though. Warhammer is in no way a completely solo game. Does it require large amounts of interaction with other players NO. It is not a completely solo game though. Anyone trying to use it to make the claim that solo in the only play style being catered to in todays games needs to find a different game to use.
WAR is an even worse example when you look at the fact that most of the best gear comes from basically RAIDS at end game, or PVP which is mostly RVR and scenerios. Now scenarios often times at least on the chaos end look like 12 people trying to solo, but they go much better if you work together and communicate. During the leveling process good gear also comes from the normal and hard PQs which are made for groups. So basically almost none of the best gear comes from soloing at any level.
I think the information age has a lot to do with it. When the internet first started and online gaming was in it's infancy, players relied upon one another just to learn to play the games. You couldn't set up your hotkeys or macros without other players helping you out. There were really no maps or quest markers or anything like that. Nowadays you just have to google something and within 10 miniutes or less you can find all the macroing, questing, or anything else you need to know about the games, assuming they've been out for any length of time.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I am aware. I don't play WoW. Never played EQ. Does that mean I can't hate raiding? Thats all I meant. Did I say anything in my post that said I thought all gear that was worthwhile currently comes from raids in all games?
Ahh I see it is his second paragraph that must have made you think that. Wanting to make sure there are multiple avenues to gain the gear/wealth/status you want does not mean you don't realize it exists in some games.
I'm sorry, who is crying for a solo-centric MMO? Nobody. It's all the groupers who whine incessantly that there are no group-centric MMOs. There's no point to crying for solo-centric games, they're everywhere.
Methinks you're looking at the wrong side.
Agreed. It always seems that the soloers want MMO's with options for both group and solo play, with equal opportunities, whereas the Groupers want to punish the soloers enough to "force" them into grouping.
Let's make this clear because some consider this solo centric thing different from others. Is it like wow for example where you can solo a big part of the game but for epic fights you have to group? Or do you want to solo everything. Even the bosses and get the same rewards the groupers get.
I want a WAY to get the same reward a grouper gets. Michael Jordan plays with a team and earns an award... should it be any greater than the award Tiger Woods gets? or Lance Armstrong gets? Should they be punished because they did it alone?
That analogy is so bad it hurts my head.
In MMORPGs soloing is about a billion times easier than grouping, which is why grouping needs to be rewarded, or everyone would just solo. Why play an MMORPG if you're just going to do everything solo? Solo if you want, but the rewards/level of difficulty should not be equal to that of grouping, because then no one will group.
If no one groups for the pure joy of grouping, then so be it.
I, for one, have made the CHOICE to group up even when doing simple quests... strange, isn't it?
Cool story bro, I call BS. In a game environment that doesn't give you a reason or encourage grouping, but instead ENCOURAGES you to do it all by yourself, groups are few and far between. Usually you'll just get people grouping up to do a boss then disband without saying more than a word to eachother. Been playing MMOs for 10 years, that's how it goes. 6 years ago, I would wander into a dangerous dungeon, hunt and kill by myself for a bit, and join a random group running by and talk and laugh and have a good time while hunting.
Nowadays, people just follow a linear quest treadmill that requires little to no grouping. Where do you go to find a group? Can't do it in a dungeon, its all instanced now. Out in the field? You'll just run into people doing solo quests, why would they group? If they're playing a game that focuses on solo players, you're not likely to run into people who will group for the hell of it, you'll get people that just want to rush to level cap.
You've described the mmorpg of my dreams. One that doesn't require grouping of any sort. One where I can advance alone to the fullest (gear-wise) yet still get the entertainment (not available in single player games)of seeing other players running about trading and chatting in a big open persistent world and otherwise has the features normally expected of quality fantasy mmorpgs.
Er... I don't think thats anything like I described.
What YOU described is virtually every single MMORPG on the market at the moment. Sounds like you want to play a single player RPG with scripted NPCs running by now and then to make the world seem alive.
I see, you just misrepresented my post on purpose. Duly noted. But in every triple-a mmorpg out, including WoW, the best gear requires grouping, therefore you are wrong. I'll continue this discussion with someone that understands the subject matter.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
That's going to eliminate 90% of those who have posted in this thread....
To be honest, I don't recall a single thread started by a soloer complaining we needed more solo-centric games. If someone wants to point one out to me, fine.
Now I know you're a soloer thus obviously incapable of social empathy with your fellow man, so I'll try and make this simple so you might be able to understand. If the groupers are asking for a group-based game to be made, and the soloers are content with what they have, what does that mean?
tl;dr thread. There is a reason they are called MMOs. That SHOULD kinda give it away that your not gonna be able to solo the whole damn game, people need to get real.
Total MMOs played: 274|Enjoyed: 9. >:|
There is a reason they are called MMOs. That SHOULD kinda give it away that your not gonna be able to solo the whole damn game, people need to get real.
No! MMO's let you solo so I should be able to solo all the time wherever I want to go! And I should be able to get everything on my own! I should be able to get raid gear on my own because it's not fair that raiders can get it so I want it and don't want to fight those stupid raid mobs for it! I want special treatment, the developers should make side quests so I can get raid stuff! And groupers are stinky! I don't want them near me! I want a new game where everyone solos and we all get neat stuff on our own and don't even need to talk to each other! Yeah! And.. *cough*cough*
Oh, excuse me, I was possessed by the soul of a soloer there for a moment. Did I say anything stupid?
You don't get granted a game simply because you want one, you have to *EARN* it. You have to *PROVE* that you deserve it by demonstrating to developers that making such a game would be financially viable. It has nothing to do with empathy, ith as to do with being fiscally worthwhile.
Stop acting like you're somehow entitled to get your way.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None