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MMORPG without Progression, can it work?
tro44_1
Member Posts: 1,819
Can a MMO be done in this way and be successful?
Comments
Second life?
I really doubt it. Whether through levels, itemization, skills, etc. people seem to need to have a sense of achievement even within the confines of a video game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Maybe a mindless MMOFPS, but we got RPG elements such as progression even in the single-player FPS.
I don't think there's anyone insane enough to try to make a MMORPG without progression, that wouldn't even work in a normal RPG.
the MMO, yes... RPG? No, I'm afraid not.. That is the aspect that makes an RPG an RPG, like the above poster stated you need some from of progression.
A MMORPG, without Grinding
and without End Game
Freely open, where it has no Levels of any kind.
Just a Open World, where you can do anything from the start.
That seems to fit into the No Progression catagory
A MMORPG, without Grinding
and without End Game
Freely open, where it has no Levels of any kind.
Just a Open World, where you can do anything from the start.
That seems to fit into the No Progression catagory
Sounds like a great game. I want to be the best at everything right away.
I doubt any MMO without progression would work.
Might sound like a good idea, but it's not. Most players quit (their loved) MMOs because they feel no sense of progession. If the whole game is based around that it pretty much sounds insta-fail.
A MMORPG, without Grinding
and without End Game
Freely open, where it has no Levels of any kind.
Just a Open World, where you can do anything from the start.
That seems to fit into the No Progression catagory
Its an uphill battle for these types of games. Every time one comes out people start crying for quests and mobs to grind on. They claim the world is empty and there is nothing to do and they say they don't have time to explore or figure anything out, due to real life(job, marriage, kids).
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
A MMORPG, without Grinding
and without End Game
Freely open, where it has no Levels of any kind.
Just a Open World, where you can do anything from the start.
That seems to fit into the No Progression catagory
So without grinding, and without endgame, no levels, no advancement, what exactly would be the "anything" that you would be doing?
You could make such a game, but then it wouldn't be an MMORPG.
The elements you wish to leave out are what help to define the genre.
Otherwise I think you want an MMOFPS like Planetside or Tribes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Bottom line, character progression would need to be replaced by rapid content additions, or "world progression" via a highly dynamic world that can be greatly impacted by its players.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
A MMORPG, without Grinding
and without End Game
Freely open, where it has no Levels of any kind.
Just a Open World, where you can do anything from the start.
That seems to fit into the No Progression catagory
So without grinding, and without endgame, no levels, no advancement, what exactly would be the "anything" that you would be doing?
You could make such a game, but then it wouldn't be an MMORPG.
The elements you wish to leave out are what help to define the genre.
Otherwise I think you want an MMOFPS like Planetside or Tribes.
well iam just baseing the idea on what I read from this forum.
People want no end game, no lvls, fully Open worlds with freedom to do what ever from start.
that seems to fit this catagory of no progression, just a open world
Taking your question literally, no. Hell, no games can be done without some kind of progression. Either your gaining levels or points, beating new / stronger opponents, or becoming a better / stronger player yourself, there's always some sort of progression.
If, by your question, you actually meant 'leveling progression' than the answer is yes. There have been games who's progression lies either within a framework devoid of levels (second life) or in one, which the levels are not the main focus of the game (Eve, Guild Wars).
Leveling isn't the only method of progressing in a game, and there are numerous examples of systems of progression that can digress and regress with a natural flow (creating perpetual progression). MMOs have already tried experimenting with other methods, but leveling is by far the easiest to measure and track, as it is one of the most objective ways you can view a player base.
Well without levels would be fine. But at the very least you would have to gain skills and attributes through use something like in UO. though complete and free open world could be bad if and I'm assuming here you also mean ffa pvp. There has to be some structure to enforce some kind of law in the game or your subscriptions would fall.
It's not an RPG without progression.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think it could work to a degree. There would have to be some progression but it doesn't have to be level based. It could be equipment based where you upgrade your weapon or armor but even then it should only bring a slight improvement.
There would have to be enough and varied things to do. More of Sims meets action game. Peole would have to adventure of the thrill of adventure not to level or for the next grand loot. It would in the end be glorified chat room which in a way what MMORPGs can be at times anyway. Do expect huge numbers though. It would be a niche game in the end but I do think it could work.
Why would I play a game that has no progression?
You asked two different questions.
An MMO, yes.
An MMORPG, no.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
It all depends on how you quantify 'progression'.
Offer an open world with plenty of twists and turns to combat, plenty of lore to dive into... but make it all 'equal' in terms of balance.
But let *exploration* be a huge part of the game? Sure, that sounds like it would work. But again, depends on how you quantify progression, and if you're willing to say one 'progresses' by 'going further' with their 'exploration'.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
So... a game... with no goal. Kinda like "run around this field and kick the ball wherever you want, though there's no goals to kick it into. Just kick it and have fun." Not seeing the appeal.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
You'd absolutely loathe Fallout 3 and EVE Online.
Why anyone would look for some finite goal - pretty much a way to 'beat' the game - in an MMO is beyond me. It's why levels are about the most ridiculous aspect of PnPs/MUDs carried over to MMORPGs.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
This would be a serious challenge to any game designer and I highly doubt their would be anyone willing to take on this task unless they had a few hundred million to create a virtual world with enough content to keep players busy over the long haul. There needs to be some encentive somehwere to keep players playing otherwise they'll just leave. I can think of way to keep them playing without progression, but it would take some serious game play mechanics to be programmed into the game and then you'd have to have players that would wish to participate in the game play I have in mind. It would be a niche' game because it would take some seriously dedicated players to particpate.
Otherwise, no, I do not thing an MMORPG without some kind of progression or incentives to keep playing would ever succeed. It's in the nature of the beast. Even the old pen and paper games had progression and incentives to progress.
The why is pretty simple, it's because there is a generation and a half that only knows finite (and preset) goals. Achievement is a major motivator and for people who really don't know how to "make their own fun" or set their own goals, this style is infinitely important. Levels play into this perfectly, and were carried over because they are easier than almost any other system. It's an easy to understand concept for players and it's easy to work with.
Levels 1-79 in WoW are simply tutorial levels where you learn how to play your toon.
The game actually starts at 80 now.
There is still progression at 80, i'm thinking of gear.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Yes it may work but it won't be an RPG any more.
I bet with brillant ideas one can make a good social mmo out of an mmorpg without progression but then it will just be a good mmo social game.
I picked up much of this idea from the Topic Threads on this forum. Here,,,Take a Look
No Classes Thread
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/262752/why-such-an-obsession-with-classes.html
---------------------------------
No Leveling and EXP Thread
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/262738/Is-There-Such-a-Thing-as-a-Game-Without-Levels.html
-------------------------------------
No End Game Thread
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/262856/End-Game-or-Game.html
What do you think?