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LOL. I'm definitely a casual, and the thought of being "good" at an MMO simply never occurred to me till I read this.
I play for fun. I'm good and bad at plenty of stuff in life, I don't need to be "good" at entertaining myself.
Does the OP place a value on how good or bad he is at watching TV or going to the moves? LOL.
Get out more, buddy. You have lost any sense of proper perspective in life.
How do you know that they don't go back to their studies in quantum physics instead?
You are doing the same thing racist do, assuming that all people that have something in common are the same.
Newsflash: They aren't.
I wouldn't call myself either casual or hardcore, I hate easy games and will not give up but I only have time to play 3 hours or so a normal day, more on weekends. I raid a bit (EQ2) when I can. That doesn't mean I assume that everyone that plays more or less than me is a certain way. And I certainly isn't trolling the forum to make the game easier, it is already too easy.
I could have played 2 hours more a day but I usually read a bit also, mostly history and some tech. Do you think I would e more successful if I spent those 2 hours playing also?
How do you know that they don't go back to their studies in quantum physics instead?
You are doing the same thing racist do, assuming that all people that have something in common are the same.
Newsflash: They aren't.
I wouldn't call myself either casual or hardcore, I hate easy games and will not give up but I only have time to play 3 hours or so a normal day, more on weekends. I raid a bit (EQ2) when I can. That doesn't mean I assume that everyone that plays more or less than me is a certain way. And I certainly isn't trolling the forum to make the game easier, it is already too easy.
I could have played 2 hours more a day but I usually read a bit also, mostly history and some tech. Do you think I would e more successful if I spent those 2 hours playing also?
I agree with lokis points yet again, but I'm starting to realize that this isn't about casual or hardcore players. This is about people not playing with the OP. Because someone says they need to log due to something such as... they have to eat, or they have to sleep, those are not sufficient reasons to the OP to leave a group.
That has nothing to do with being hardcore, that has to do with people either A) Having better things to do then playing a game, or
They just don't like the group they're in. I've left a few groups in my time when it was obvious they didn't know what they were doing, and it wasn't because I didn't have the drive to finish the mission, it was because it was obvious I was wasting my time with people that didn't know how to play.
Time actually does play a big part in "hardcore" gaming.. at least where MMORPGs are concerned. Thats because in MMORPGs the length of play correlates specifically with the experience and items you gain. Raiding for hours and hours for parts of armor may seem like dedication to you, but I'd rather spend the same amount of time in an FPS enjoying random skirmishes against other players.
Thats what the OP fails to realize, there are many different kinds of players, and many different games to play... and he has a very shallow definition of what he believes is casual and hardcore. Just because people don't want to be in his group anymore doesn't automatically make them casual. Just because they leave after 1 wipe because they may feel the group is inadequate and they're wasting their time with a few bad players doesn't mean they aren't hardcore. I think what the OP is talking about transcends any distinction between the two terms and is solely dependent on a case by case basis making this entire topic moot.
Just because you spend 3 hours a week in game but then post on the forums from work all day doesn't make you any less of a loser then the kid who plays 10 hours a day in their parents basement. There really isn't any reason why casuals and hardcore players can't get along. To the outside world you are both equally losers. Even other gaming genres look down on mmo players.
Games take skill. Until you log onto a game that can be played with just the press of one button, there will always be some form of skill involved. Unfortunately... mmos are moving towards that direction. The fact that both sides will yell at each other all day over the course of multiple days shows just how much -both- sides care about this issue. Can't we all just drop it and stop the in fighting? If we directed this kind of passion towards game developers, we could actually achieve something interesting.
Hey now, not like I have much choice. These computers we have at work are such pos about all I can do is surf the web and post on forums. Sometimes even that locks them up. What else is there to do? It's either this or do my job and screw that nonsense >_>
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
A short digression, I like where your heads at, but it came off a little hostile. Regardless, I wonder how long you've been a member on any MMO forum (not trying to sound rude) but there is one thing most MMO gamers don't lack, and thats passion. The MMORPG.com forums are, honestly, some of the worst you'll ever encounter, but we do have some excellent members as well.
To the point of response though, the overall focus to me isn't that a hardcore player or a casual player is any better then one or the other. To each their own. As stated before, its a matter of perspective. The OP obviously feels his definition of hardcore is a better overall life model then what he believes a casual gamer would employ.
This strangely coincides with your post that you feel that posting online instead of playing countless hours in game would incite the same reaction, which again would be incorrect. On a side note though, if I cared what anybody really thought of me, personally (since you all know me so well) I wouldn't continuously play devils advocate.
Hey now, not like I have much choice. These computers we have at work are such pos about all I can do is surf the web and post on forums. Sometimes even that locks them up. What else is there to do? It's either this or do my job and screw that nonsense >_>
Heh, thats one thing i love about my job. Im in IT so i can do as i please with my system at work (working on getting a better gfx card for mine), and am also the only person in the building most of my shift (nights) so i can also bring in my laptop and game.
Yeah, I have a friend at work in IT and he does the same thing. He gets all this extra money because he always volunteers himself for when they need work done after hours or come in for data scans and the such meanwhile he comes in and plays his damn mmos all evening and gets paid for it. The crux is his bosses love him because far as they're concerned he's a go getter.
I so envy you guys. Every time I think I'm one upping the system people like you gotta come and poop on my parade.
Haha XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Nice way to over generalize everything in a single post OP.
Casuals may spend more time in game than a hardcore player, they just don't feel like being chained up to 39 other people to do it.
I pay my own subscription, not you or anyone else. Therefore, i CHOOSE not to play the hardcore way and try my best to enjoy every aspect of it.
In my opinion, the no talentassclowns are those who choose to follow like good sheeple some smelly guild/raid leader around on a freaking leash for four hours a night.
What?
We have discussed this Gink - EQ has more downtime than any other mmo on the market - since its inception to this day. If you can't recognize that WoW eliminated most of the time-sinks that were driving EQ players away - than you really have no grasp of mmo history.
Restating false premises in different threads will not magically create truth.
EQ = Most NPCs had a 1 week respawn. 1 saturday is enough to do all of your raiding (8-10 hours) then you could log off until next week.
WoW = 50-100 dumbed down and retarded instances, plus PVP arenas and battlegrounds
Can easily spend 4+ hours a day playing WoW, although you aren't doing much playing since the game has been dumbed down for these "casuals" or bad players.
Thanks for proving my point - I guess we agree after all.
In EQ most bosses had 1 week respawn times. 1 saturday of 8 to 10 hours of raiding may land you 1 of those bosses, if your guild was lucky enough to be the first there, because with no instances, other guilds took down your other objectives while you were killing your first.
This proves that EQ's structure has the unintended by-product of waits up to months for your guild to actually hit the first choice target. God help you if you were learning a new boss, because if you wiped learning strat, another guild was usually right behind you, if you were lucky patiently waiting their turn - which we all remember was the exception rather than the rule; opposing guilds training you was the norm. Putting that objective yet, one more week out of reach. And it had nothing to do with skill at all, it had to do with built in impossibilities in EQ that made sense on paper but, for a game where raiding was the end game, they put every conceivable roadblock in your way to actually testing your skills against a boss. From all the objectives killed before your guild could get to them, to opposing guilds training you prior to your boss (or during - or right after, especially if they new the loot would be released before you could get a rogue back to the body).
And let us remember that the once a week raid wasn't because that's all you needed, but because that is all that was possible to coordinate with the necessary 150 people to take down the bosses and the 8 to 10 hours required to do it.
Your other points as well show me how right I was. WoW gave you 50 to 100 instances, plus arenas, plus battlegrounds meaning that you were never sitting around waiting for the once a week you could raid, but rather could get in on the action in a meriad of ways without having to wait on stupid downtime inherent in your game.
I'm starting to doubt you were really a hardcore player of EQ at all. What server, what guild and what years did you play EQ? No matter how many pathetic poems of lament you sing about EQ, my guess is that, with humility, me and my guildmates were more uber than you could ever have been in this game.
And to further, I speculate that you are indeed *NOT* talking about original EQ, but rather you were introduced to mmo's by WoW and then went to EQ - guess what after they dumbed it down. I doubt you have the patience that original EQ required (unintentionally).
Or - You may actually be the best advocate of WoW since the dawn of time - a perfect troll. Because none of your threads have convinced a soul to return to EQ - instead just have made us all realize what we 'don't' miss about EQ. From 8 to 10 hour raids only possible once a week, to personalities like yours.
What exactly are you trying to convince us of? The EQ is better, right? And do you usually convert people with a pair of boxing gloves? How has that worked out for you? How many have joined your religion?
I just skip past his posts and just have fun reading all the people that are smarter than him
I am better, that is why my guild did Naxx40 while you guys were stuck wiping on the rubble-rousers & trash running around Molten Core.
I'm world first material in any game I play. That is why I don't find any challenge to brainless MMORPGs like WoW.
WoW = larger time investment than any other MMORPG, and the bad part is it's dumbed down content that isn't fun.
WoW is no more casual than EQ was. EQ required less time investment, the difference was skill level.
But you can continue to play WoW 4 hours a day and claim it is some sort of casual game. It has become a game for people who can't think and plan. EQ on the other hand, that required some skill and coordination.
ROFL...thanks for my new sig. Are you for real????
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Reporter - Ginkeq, why do you play MMORPGs?
Ginkeq - Because the real world is too bright and scary.
Reporter - There you have it folks!
Someone needs to remove their epeen from their nether regions
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Ginkeq's profile states he's 23 years old. He states repeatedly that he's gotten many world firsts in EQ, which launched over a decade ago. So...that means he's spent most of his teen years growing up on this shit, cultivating his epeen. Now that he's out of highschool, he no doubt realizes all the time he wasted, having no life, putting emphasis on imaginary crap THAT DOESN'T MATTER, and now it all amounts to absolutely nothing.
So, he's understandably bitter. I'd even wager he might be in some way developmentally deficient in many areas.
Rather sad, really. But there is hope. There are always mail-order Russian brides that, for the right price, would be willing to listen to you drone on about your awesome world firsts to your hearts content. So keep that chin up, sport.
Ok, the debate about casual gamers and hardcore gamers is a good one and a legitimate one.
The problem with the OP is it poorly written, poorly reasoned and willfully trollish by being rude and iconclastic towards casual players and then (absurdly) using a sneaky sleight of hand in the post by saying that actually they are not 'really' talking about casual players but people who 'label' themselves casual players (who are 'really' lazy and unskilled players) who are also failures in life "pretending" to be casual players and it is "really" these "casual player dopplegangers" that are being referred to and not the "authentic casual players" who are NOT being referred to in the post title as "sucking at mmorpgs". So that er, the 'actual' casual players are not really the subject of the post after all. Pause for breath. OMG, why is it always the most dumb and illogical and sub-literate people who make elitist claims for themselves.
OP if you don't mean 'casual players' then a bit of advice: refer directly to who you do mean (i.e. lazy players with no skill) and stick with that label; don't refer to casual players in your post title if indeed they are not the focus of your sub-literate rant.
Oh, but then you really just wanted to troll it up didn't you? You know that casual players are a massive player base and it was them you wanted to provoke wasn't it? That's why you labelled your post with the term "casual players" combined with "suck at mmorpgs" and that's why you use the term as an insult throughout your post and replies.
The real problem with mmorpgs is that they are indeed massively multiplayer and there is unfortunately a fair amount of ignorant, unreasonable, rude and delusional people among the masses who play them. These are the ones that I have a problem with, not with casual or hardcore players.
Regards
Melmoth
ed for spelling
Casuals are whining crybabies who suck at MMORPGs.
They will log on, and be like "No, I want to role play and stare at the night elf guards in the nigh elf town all day"
A hardcore player sees through that, and they will go clear the toughest content in the game.
And I pay for my game too. The only difference is that I play MMORPGs that are challenging and you play them and say look at the pretty night elf NPCs in this town.
What?
We have discussed this Gink - EQ has more downtime than any other mmo on the market - since its inception to this day. If you can't recognize that WoW eliminated most of the time-sinks that were driving EQ players away - than you really have no grasp of mmo history.
Restating false premises in different threads will not magically create truth.
EQ = Most NPCs had a 1 week respawn. 1 saturday is enough to do all of your raiding (8-10 hours) then you could log off until next week.
WoW = 50-100 dumbed down and retarded instances, plus PVP arenas and battlegrounds
Can easily spend 4+ hours a day playing WoW, although you aren't doing much playing since the game has been dumbed down for these "casuals" or bad players.
Thanks for proving my point - I guess we agree after all.
In EQ most bosses had 1 week respawn times. 1 saturday of 8 to 10 hours of raiding may land you 1 of those bosses, if your guild was lucky enough to be the first there, because with no instances, other guilds took down your other objectives while you were killing your first.
This proves that EQ's structure has the unintended by-product of waits up to months for your guild to actually hit the first choice target. God help you if you were learning a new boss, because if you wiped learning strat, another guild was usually right behind you, if you were lucky patiently waiting their turn - which we all remember was the exception rather than the rule; opposing guilds training you was the norm. Putting that objective yet, one more week out of reach. And it had nothing to do with skill at all, it had to do with built in impossibilities in EQ that made sense on paper but, for a game where raiding was the end game, they put every conceivable roadblock in your way to actually testing your skills against a boss. From all the objectives killed before your guild could get to them, to opposing guilds training you prior to your boss (or during - or right after, especially if they new the loot would be released before you could get a rogue back to the body).
And let us remember that the once a week raid wasn't because that's all you needed, but because that is all that was possible to coordinate with the necessary 150 people to take down the bosses and the 8 to 10 hours required to do it.
Your other points as well show me how right I was. WoW gave you 50 to 100 instances, plus arenas, plus battlegrounds meaning that you were never sitting around waiting for the once a week you could raid, but rather could get in on the action in a meriad of ways without having to wait on stupid downtime inherent in your game.
I'm starting to doubt you were really a hardcore player of EQ at all. What server, what guild and what years did you play EQ? No matter how many pathetic poems of lament you sing about EQ, my guess is that, with humility, me and my guildmates were more uber than you could ever have been in this game.
And to further, I speculate that you are indeed *NOT* talking about original EQ, but rather you were introduced to mmo's by WoW and then went to EQ - guess what after they dumbed it down. I doubt you have the patience that original EQ required (unintentionally).
Or - You may actually be the best advocate of WoW since the dawn of time - a perfect troll. Because none of your threads have convinced a soul to return to EQ - instead just have made us all realize what we 'don't' miss about EQ. From 8 to 10 hour raids only possible once a week, to personalities like yours.
What exactly are you trying to convince us of? The EQ is better, right? And do you usually convert people with a pair of boxing gloves? How has that worked out for you? How many have joined your religion?
Well, EQ is better, it is more challenging, and the PVP was fun on EQ too.
EQ was a real MMORPG, because it had a WORLD and did not have INSTANCES. Not only that, when you stepped into a raid zone, you knew it wasn't time to play like shit. Raids were a bit more serious, and a bit more challenging in EQ.
And the 8-10 hours, I meant you could raid many diff .zones in that time period.
It's less of a time sink than the 4 hours a day most of you probably spend farming meaningless trivial PVE/PVP content in WoW. And at least when you kill a raid boss in EQ, you feel like you've accomplished something, because things were difficult back then.
Now you kill something, and it's like /yawn every time, b/c it is so dumbed down.
And I played on Sullon Zek, a no-rules PVP server with 3 teams. That meant anything was permitted on that server. Not like these dumbed down PVP systems for stupid players who want PVP to be in instances against people not in the same server/world.
So playing MMORPGs is a waste of time?
I don't view any of my time as wasted. I am extremely successful in everything that I do, including playing video games. I would talk more about my RL, but I don't enjoy humiliating people who are far below my level.
It is nice that you come here and insult everyone on these forums as people who waste their time, because they play MMORPGs. You want to wager something? I'd wager than 99% of the people playing MMORPGs are more successful than you, at everything, and have more "life"
Well, it is good that you got the message that I sent.
The problem is that the lazy and unskilled players are using "casual" as a term to hide the fact that they suck.
If I don't like WoW, it's because I'm too hardcore, and I don't have a life, etc. Because anyone who doesn't like mindless PVE/PVP content does not have a life.
It's not my fault that people didn't read the first post which explains who I'm referring to.
Casuals who can only spend 2-3 hours a day are fine with me.
MMOs are massively multiplayer? WoWs more like a lobby w/ instances than a MMO. I don't know if youve played it in the last 5 years though to know that, or played it at all (they've always been instancing everything)
So playing MMORPGs is a waste of time?
I don't view any of my time as wasted. I am extremely successful in everything that I do, including playing video games. I would talk more about my RL, but I don't enjoy humiliating people who are far below my level.
It is nice that you come here and insult everyone on these forums as people who waste their time, because they play MMORPGs. You want to wager something? I'd wager than 99% of the people playing MMORPGs are more successful than you, at everything, and have more "life"
Whats truly amazing is you have been here all day typing this shit. Ive been checking my mail every few hours and you have been here all day. Your correct, to do what you do, you cant have a life.
So playing MMORPGs is a waste of time?
I don't view any of my time as wasted. I am extremely successful in everything that I do, including playing video games. I would talk more about my RL, but I don't enjoy humiliating people who are far below my level.
It is nice that you come here and insult everyone on these forums as people who waste their time, because they play MMORPGs. You want to wager something? I'd wager than 99% of the people playing MMORPGs are more successful than you, at everything, and have more "life"
Whats truly amazing is you have been here all day typing this shit. Ive been checking my mail every few hours and you have been here all day. Your correct, to do what you do, you cant have a life.
I know, I have to fight the hordes of lousy players that back-talk me.
To bad EQ was such a shitty design it couldn't have hardcore and casual all in the same game.
Yeah, all the bad players had to remain in misty thicket and other newb areas.
Yeah, all the bad players had to remain in misty thicket and other newb areas.
And all the smart people wasted very little time an any zone.
UO did a good job at creating a casual and hardcore environment. But the player would have to think about creating their character vs having one handed to them.