As you can see from this thread we don't agree on what hardcore or roleplaying is. I am not even sure we agree on what old school is.
Not really.
The disagreements aren't real.
The disagreements are pretty real for most of those terms.
Roleplaying, as referred to in a thread about oldschool tabletop roleplaying, isn't what you described. Oddly, your version wasn't the typical other meaning ("RPG" as applied to videogames about character progression and/or storyline.) Your version was more immersion-centric, which is part of classic roleplaying but not quite.
Old school varies considerably, but in this thread the OP does an alright job establishing the type of gamer he's referring to.
"Hardcore" is the most useless and disagreed-upon term in any MMORPG discussion.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As you can see from this thread we don't agree on what hardcore or roleplaying is. I am not even sure we agree on what old school is.
Not really.
The disagreements aren't real.
The disagreements are pretty real for most of those terms.
Roleplaying, as referred to in a thread about oldschool tabletop roleplaying, isn't what you described. Oddly, your version wasn't the typical other meaning ("RPG" as applied to videogames about character progression and/or storyline.) Your version was more immersion-centric, which is part of classic roleplaying but not quite.
Old school varies considerably, but in this thread the OP does an alright job establishing the type of gamer he's referring to.
"Hardcore" is the most useless and disagreed-upon term in any MMORPG discussion.
So whats the disagreement? Some games arent really RPGS?
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Uo, EQ, SWG, EVE, and darfkfall are/were the best. You shouldnt have to roleplay inside a roleplaying game. Roleplaying should be playing the game. My opinion. I've never "roleplayed", while Im playing a RPG. The Game should provide all of that if it's an RPG.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality.
He didn't say anything about the quality of roleplay. Whether or not the roleplay meets your personal standards and checklist does not negate his statement.
I probably misunderstood Fikus. He was saying that an RPG should provide the necessary tools for roleplaying if its going to call itself an RPG. But I thought he was saying that a person playing an RPG doesn't need to bring any imagination or creativity with them into the RPG. Not what he was saying.
But I don't think roleplaying really applies to "personal standards." It's like storytelling, there is a psychological effect that storytelling has on the brain that is universal to all people. Storytelling can actually move people listening through specific brain states. At certain levels of roleplaying we become immersed in the story of the game, just like we do with storytelling. If someone is jingling their keys, or talking about the flat tire they had yesterday, then they probably are not immersed in the story or roleplaying effectively. It's a clear sign that they are not in the deeper brain states of storytelling/roleplaying/immersion.
Uo, EQ, SWG, EVE, and darfkfall are/were the best. You shouldnt have to roleplay inside a roleplaying game. Roleplaying should be playing the game. My opinion. I've never "roleplayed", while Im playing a RPG. The Game should provide all of that if it's an RPG.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Because the sandbox gamepley. And atlast 50% of the content was noncombat.. So you could meet all kind of nice players. Example: A woman that only make fancy clother for dinnerpartys! If you meet that kind of person, roleplay comes pretty natural : )
Uo, EQ, SWG, EVE, and darfkfall are/were the best. You shouldnt have to roleplay inside a roleplaying game. Roleplaying should be playing the game. My opinion. I've never "roleplayed", while Im playing a RPG. The Game should provide all of that if it's an RPG.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality.
He didn't say anything about the quality of roleplay. Whether or not the roleplay meets your personal standards and checklist does not negate his statement.
I probably misunderstood Fikus. He was saying that an RPG should provide the necessary tools for roleplaying if its going to call itself an RPG. But I thought he was saying that a person playing an RPG doesn't need to bring any imagination or creativity with them into the RPG. Not what he was saying.
But I don't think roleplaying really applies to "personal standards." It's like storytelling, there is a psychological effect that storytelling has on the brain that is universal to all people. Storytelling can actually move people listening through specific brain states. At certain levels of roleplaying we become immersed in the story of the game, just like we do with storytelling. If someone is jingling their keys, or talking about the flat tire they had yesterday, then they probably are not immersed in the story or roleplaying effectively. It's a clear sign that they are not in the deeper brain states of storytelling/roleplaying/immersion.
I think we agree more than you know.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
If someone is jingling their keys, or talking about the flat tire they had yesterday, then they probably are not immersed in the story or roleplaying effectively. It's a clear sign that they are not in the deeper brain states of storytelling/roleplaying/immersion.
You say it's not about your personal standards and checklist and then proceed to give your standards and a short checklist of how other players do or don't measure up to your personal quality standards of roleplay.
Of the people who roleplay, each one does it to a different degree or extent.
To some, RP and immersion is simply that point where they are mentally referring to things in a game world context "If I hide behind that tree, I can ambush him when he comes through." "If the shields drop much more, I'm going to divert power from the engine to support them."
To some, it's a matter of injecting an entire Elizabethian speech and customs system into the game world... with complete disregard for where or when that world is.
To others, it's just taking on a role and playing it, sometimes in the context of the game world and sometimes in a relative vacuum.
Whatever the case, simply playing the game and enjoying the context of the game world without actually dropping into Virtual Actor Mode is a level of roleplay for some. I'm sure while you're mentally handing out demerits based on bizarre fanatical criteria (they might be sitting there jingling their car keys, you know) they're a lot more immersed in the gmae than you are.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Uo, EQ, SWG, EVE, and darfkfall are/were the best. You shouldnt have to roleplay inside a roleplaying game. Roleplaying should be playing the game. My opinion. I've never "roleplayed", while Im playing a RPG. The Game should provide all of that if it's an RPG.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Uo, EQ, SWG, EVE, and darfkfall are/were the best. You shouldnt have to roleplay inside a roleplaying game. Roleplaying should be playing the game. My opinion. I've never "roleplayed", while Im playing a RPG. The Game should provide all of that if it's an RPG.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
Very well said, Khal!
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If someone is jingling their keys, or talking about the flat tire they had yesterday, then they probably are not immersed in the story or roleplaying effectively. It's a clear sign that they are not in the deeper brain states of storytelling/roleplaying/immersion.
You say it's not about your personal standards and checklist and then proceed to give your standards and a short checklist of how other players do or don't measure up to your personal quality standards of roleplay.
Of the people who roleplay, each one does it to a different degree or extent.
To some, RP and immersion is simply that point where they are mentally referring to things in a game world context "If I hide behind that tree, I can ambush him when he comes through." "If the shields drop much more, I'm going to divert power from the engine to support them."
To some, it's a matter of injecting an entire Elizabethian speech and customs system into the game world... with complete disregard for where or when that world is.
To others, it's just taking on a role and playing it, sometimes in the context of the game world and sometimes in a relative vacuum.
Whatever the case, simply playing the game and enjoying the context of the game world without actually dropping into Virtual Actor Mode is a level of roleplay for some. I'm sure while you're mentally handing out demerits based on bizarre fanatical criteria (they might be sitting there jingling their car keys, you know) they're a lot more immersed in the gmae than you are.
Well i kind of agree with him there. But I blame the game. There are some RPG's were no one talks about the game at all. So in order to get that immersion your forced to play with only certain people. But i blame it on the game, not the other people. They are enjoying the game parts in their own way, and prefer to talk about dinner and the kids because the game lacks or lost its appeal to the immersion people enjoy. The story, roles, where to do and when to do it is all planned out. Nothing will ever surprise you and you have no ability to do anything else except pretend.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there. There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
True, there should be more stuff like that both for players and guilds.
A guild should be able to make their own country more or less with taxes, minting their own coins, building fortifications, markets, taverns, shops and so on which the guild members can run.
the endgame of most MMOs is either raiding or PvP, it should also have a lot more options for players that want to do it.
I don't care if some taverns are run by NPCs but players should be able to build there own and either rent in npcs or players to work there. Design the building in the style they want to (like a dwarwish pub with trophies from the owners old life as an adventurer or something.
There should also be mechanics for bards and jesters to do tricks and tumble. Maybe something close to rockband and Guitar hero for the bards?
Uo, EQ, SWG, EVE, and darfkfall are/were the best. You shouldnt have to roleplay inside a roleplaying game. Roleplaying should be playing the game. My opinion. I've never "roleplayed", while Im playing a RPG. The Game should provide all of that if it's an RPG.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
Very well said, Khal!
Very well said!
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
I highly doubt developers are not aware of that. It is just that the market for non-combat "heroes" are so small that they choose to ignore it.
Looking at gaming. Except SIMS, most of the big games are combat oriented. In fact, Diablo is so successful because it eliminated almost everything else but combat and cool loot.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn. I highly doubt developers are not aware of that. It is just that the market for non-combat "heroes" are so small that they choose to ignore it. Looking at gaming. Except SIMS, most of the big games are combat oriented. In fact, Diablo is so successful because it eliminated almost everything else but combat and cool loot.
Noone was suggesting a completely non-combat hero game and I maintain that the lesson here is one modern developers have failed to grasp.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
Not really.
The disagreements aren't real.
The disagreements are pretty real for most of those terms.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not really.
The disagreements aren't real.
The disagreements are pretty real for most of those terms.
So whats the disagreement? Some games arent really RPGS?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality.
He didn't say anything about the quality of roleplay. Whether or not the roleplay meets your personal standards and checklist does not negate his statement.
I probably misunderstood Fikus. He was saying that an RPG should provide the necessary tools for roleplaying if its going to call itself an RPG. But I thought he was saying that a person playing an RPG doesn't need to bring any imagination or creativity with them into the RPG. Not what he was saying.
But I don't think roleplaying really applies to "personal standards." It's like storytelling, there is a psychological effect that storytelling has on the brain that is universal to all people. Storytelling can actually move people listening through specific brain states. At certain levels of roleplaying we become immersed in the story of the game, just like we do with storytelling. If someone is jingling their keys, or talking about the flat tire they had yesterday, then they probably are not immersed in the story or roleplaying effectively. It's a clear sign that they are not in the deeper brain states of storytelling/roleplaying/immersion.
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
SWG was the best MMO to roleplay in.
Because the sandbox gamepley. And atlast 50% of the content was noncombat.. So you could meet all kind of nice players. Example: A woman that only make fancy clother for dinnerpartys! If you meet that kind of person, roleplay comes pretty natural : )
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality.
He didn't say anything about the quality of roleplay. Whether or not the roleplay meets your personal standards and checklist does not negate his statement.
I probably misunderstood Fikus. He was saying that an RPG should provide the necessary tools for roleplaying if its going to call itself an RPG. But I thought he was saying that a person playing an RPG doesn't need to bring any imagination or creativity with them into the RPG. Not what he was saying.
But I don't think roleplaying really applies to "personal standards." It's like storytelling, there is a psychological effect that storytelling has on the brain that is universal to all people. Storytelling can actually move people listening through specific brain states. At certain levels of roleplaying we become immersed in the story of the game, just like we do with storytelling. If someone is jingling their keys, or talking about the flat tire they had yesterday, then they probably are not immersed in the story or roleplaying effectively. It's a clear sign that they are not in the deeper brain states of storytelling/roleplaying/immersion.
I think we agree more than you know.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
You say it's not about your personal standards and checklist and then proceed to give your standards and a short checklist of how other players do or don't measure up to your personal quality standards of roleplay.
Of the people who roleplay, each one does it to a different degree or extent.
To some, RP and immersion is simply that point where they are mentally referring to things in a game world context "If I hide behind that tree, I can ambush him when he comes through." "If the shields drop much more, I'm going to divert power from the engine to support them."
To some, it's a matter of injecting an entire Elizabethian speech and customs system into the game world... with complete disregard for where or when that world is.
To others, it's just taking on a role and playing it, sometimes in the context of the game world and sometimes in a relative vacuum.
Whatever the case, simply playing the game and enjoying the context of the game world without actually dropping into Virtual Actor Mode is a level of roleplay for some. I'm sure while you're mentally handing out demerits based on bizarre fanatical criteria (they might be sitting there jingling their car keys, you know) they're a lot more immersed in the gmae than you are.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
Very well said, Khal!
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
You say it's not about your personal standards and checklist and then proceed to give your standards and a short checklist of how other players do or don't measure up to your personal quality standards of roleplay.
Of the people who roleplay, each one does it to a different degree or extent.
To some, RP and immersion is simply that point where they are mentally referring to things in a game world context "If I hide behind that tree, I can ambush him when he comes through." "If the shields drop much more, I'm going to divert power from the engine to support them."
To some, it's a matter of injecting an entire Elizabethian speech and customs system into the game world... with complete disregard for where or when that world is.
To others, it's just taking on a role and playing it, sometimes in the context of the game world and sometimes in a relative vacuum.
Whatever the case, simply playing the game and enjoying the context of the game world without actually dropping into Virtual Actor Mode is a level of roleplay for some. I'm sure while you're mentally handing out demerits based on bizarre fanatical criteria (they might be sitting there jingling their car keys, you know) they're a lot more immersed in the gmae than you are.
Well i kind of agree with him there. But I blame the game. There are some RPG's were no one talks about the game at all. So in order to get that immersion your forced to play with only certain people. But i blame it on the game, not the other people. They are enjoying the game parts in their own way, and prefer to talk about dinner and the kids because the game lacks or lost its appeal to the immersion people enjoy. The story, roles, where to do and when to do it is all planned out. Nothing will ever surprise you and you have no ability to do anything else except pretend.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
True, there should be more stuff like that both for players and guilds.
A guild should be able to make their own country more or less with taxes, minting their own coins, building fortifications, markets, taverns, shops and so on which the guild members can run.
the endgame of most MMOs is either raiding or PvP, it should also have a lot more options for players that want to do it.
I don't care if some taverns are run by NPCs but players should be able to build there own and either rent in npcs or players to work there. Design the building in the style they want to (like a dwarwish pub with trophies from the owners old life as an adventurer or something.
There should also be mechanics for bards and jesters to do tricks and tumble. Maybe something close to rockband and Guitar hero for the bards?
Nope. Dont agree. Just because you are playing a roleplaying game does not mean you are roleplaying with any quality. There are levels of roleplaying. Also the game should not be the one supplying all of the creativity and immersion. The player should be bringing some creativity and immersion with them into the game. They meet each other half way.
Someone who just loads up an rpg to have some fun is roleplaying on a very low level. They may feel like they were really drawn into the game world. But they didn't really bring a lot of creativity into the game, they expect the game to provide it all for them.
Tend to agree with this. I mean, SWG did the following:
1) Allowed for Stimpaks and Woundpacks to be made
2) Made those items very useful in other facets of gameplay
3) Allowed player housing
4) Allowed Vendors
5) Had multiple planets or gaming areas
With that I came up with the idea that I wanted to create a Bothan Doctor who built a galactic pharmaceutical empire and was one of the top, if not the top, supplier of medical supplies around. Once I set up my shops and my production line and stocked my vendors (which wasn't near as easy as I just wrote...it took time) then I began working medical centers healing wounds and giving out a free sample Stims along with the coords to my shops on other planets. I'd even hire myself out to help folks doing whatever and pass a free sample here and there.
Eventually, I grew a very successful business based on an idea I came up with and SWG having the toools and mechanics built into the game to make them possible.
You were roleplaying through playing the game. This is exactly what I meant. You didnt have to STOP PLAYING the game to roleplay. the game allowed and provided the tools for you to play the role. Exactly.
Aye, and this is what I, and I suppose others, mean when we say we want to be able to tell our "own story" when playing a game. The vast majority of games don't allow you to do that. They lock you into telling a combat hero's story. I had a friend who, once he got his cantina up, spent every evening running it and worked contracts with entertainers to provide shows and with cooks to provide food/drink. With the built in cover charge feature he made quite a nice little bit there.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
Very well said, Khal!
Very well said!
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
There are multiple ways of being a hero and they all certainly don't have to deal with destruction or mass murder. Those that are the "builders and creators" of goods and services can be hero's too. That's a lesson many developers don't know and should learn.
I highly doubt developers are not aware of that. It is just that the market for non-combat "heroes" are so small that they choose to ignore it.
Looking at gaming. Except SIMS, most of the big games are combat oriented. In fact, Diablo is so successful because it eliminated almost everything else but combat and cool loot.
Noone was suggesting a completely non-combat hero game and I maintain that the lesson here is one modern developers have failed to grasp.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez