The dungeon finder is probably the worst thing that came to MMOS.
You are put together with 4 "henchmen" like individuals - for whom you are the the henchman - the instance difficulty is nerfed to accomodate these henchmen - there is no need for a plan, discussions, no pulling, no strategy - everything is dumbed down to the lowest possible denominator
- here is what you do: use two keys attack 1 and attack 2 (or one key if you happen to be a druid tank - swipe) - then rush through in 10 minutes - then redoit again. You never get to know anyone - form any type of relationship - you are one faceless henchman - but hey you can run the same dungeon a huge number of times!
you know what is next? computer generated bots that you can play with even when your internet connection is down.
After long deliberations with several of the worlds most renouned computer scientists, psychologists, antropologists, and heads of state, we have dtermined through calculus a formula that can be used to avoid this pressing issue.
(Make friends) + (and) / don't use / (the dungeon) - ( finder) * 2 / 2
I know it seems complicated, to all but the headiest geniuses, but if you break it down by components and reconstruct it in a logical manner i'm sure you'll find a way to implement.
The dungeon finder is probably the worst thing that came to MMOS.
You are put together with 4 "henchmen" like individuals - for whom you are the the henchman - the instance difficulty is nerfed to accomodate these henchmen - there is no need for a plan, discussions, no pulling, no strategy - everything is dumbed down to the lowest possible denominator
- here is what you do: use two keys attack 1 and attack 2 (or one key if you happen to be a druid tank - swipe) - then rush through in 10 minutes - then redoit again. You never get to know anyone - form any type of relationship - you are one faceless henchman - but hey you can run the same dungeon a huge number of times!
you know what is next? computer generated bots that you can play with even when your internet connection is down.
After long deliberations with several of the worlds most renouned computer scientists, psychologists, antropologists, and heads of state, we have dtermined through calculus a formula that can be used to avoid this pressing issue.
(Make friends) + (and) / don't use / (the dungeon) - ( finder) * 2 / 2
I know it seems complicated, to all but the headiest geniuses, but if you break it down by components and reconstruct it in a logical manner i'm sure you'll find a way to implement.
The real issue is not there, the real issue is, these big guys want us and everyone not to use a new optional tool, b/c they have an unexplainable hatred to it.
The new LfG thing sounds interesting so far. Only that I mainly leveled through dungeons when playing WoW. Questing bored me, and the first two years you could easily find groups for everything and after a patch hit, you could find lots of people interested in current dungeons.
They only need to improve the 5-men dungeons again to get me playing again. I dont want to walk down a more or less straight hallway with trashmobs and a few bosses on the way. A few more complex dungeons (maze like) are highly welcome.
The dungeon finder is probably the worst thing that came to MMOS.
You are put together with 4 "henchmen" like individuals - for whom you are the the henchman - the instance difficulty is nerfed to accomodate these henchmen - there is no need for a plan, discussions, no pulling, no strategy - everything is dumbed down to the lowest possible denominator
- here is what you do: use two keys attack 1 and attack 2 (or one key if you happen to be a druid tank - swipe) - then rush through in 10 minutes - then redoit again. You never get to know anyone - form any type of relationship - you are one faceless henchman - but hey you can run the same dungeon a huge number of times!
you know what is next? computer generated bots that you can play with even when your internet connection is down.
Before the dungeon finder was implemented I was grouping with strangers, so what's the deal now? Those "henchman" have been friendly to me for the most part. And what's going on with relationships? There is something called real life out of a MMO lol
I think its great tbh. I think the idea of just logging on, getting a group within minutes is just sheer better for casual play. Yes there is the problems mentioned in OP but it shouldn't be forgotten that you still can make your own group on the server if you so wish.
And what's going on with relationships? There is something called real life out of a MMO lol
Believe it or not kid, some people that have real lives like to form in game relationships with people in the mmo's they play in.
But then the dungeon finder is an additional tool that these people can use or not use, depending on their experience finding in game relationships. Fact is, after gaming with a bunch of people in a random heroic chains, I am considering starting an alt in their server. I have a level 1 alt made in their server and is talking to them.
What they really need to do is go the next step and allow you to add friends from other servers, and then be able to group up with those people in future instance runs.
I don't know exactly what they are going to do with it but when Blizzard finishes BattleNet 2.0 they say it's gonna let you talk to people in different Blizzard games so it's probably gonna let you talk to friends on other servers too.
But I have no idea if it'll let you group up with them to run instances.
What they really need to do is go the next step and allow you to add friends from other servers, and then be able to group up with those people in future instance runs.
I don't know exactly what they are going to do with it but when Blizzard finishes BattleNet 2.0 they say it's gonna let you talk to people in different Blizzard games so it's probably gonna let you talk to friends on other servers too.
But I have no idea if it'll let you group up with them to run instances.
This is a very wise way of doing business with your clients. Internalise all links and contacts, so whoever they talk to are Blizz clients in a Blizz environment, maybe with chat tools facilitating links to Blizz web pages (armory) or whatever. In other words. locking the clients inside your shop so they do not see the display window of your competitors.
I think the new grouping system is a shot in the arm for WoW and opens 5-man heroics up to the 'casuals'. Before it was introduced groups were over-gearing for them and had crazy gear / DPS expectations.
The only negative thing I have to say against it is you can't queue for a dungeon and a BG at the same time. The end result is the BG's are a lot quieter as getting gear through badges is a lot easier than honour. That's a shame for those of us that play BG's for fun.
_________________________________________ You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
With 11 mill players you wouldn't think this game would need henchmen for dungeons.
and yet 90% of em have never played an MMO in their life and seem to think quests are the only (and best) way to level up.
Anyway i don't think they needed to nerf the instances so much. It's a bit sad to come back to the game to find fights that where tough are now easy, boss fights that are now over in under a minute and if you manage to screw up a pull so badly that you end up pulling 2-3 rooms you can survive because of how weak the monsters are now.
Still i think the system is a great idea and it certainly speeds up looking for new players (and travelling to the dungeons). The nerf was not needed.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
The dungeon finder is probably the worst thing that came to MMOS.
You are put together with 4 "henchmen" like individuals - for whom you are the the henchman - the instance difficulty is nerfed to accomodate these henchmen - there is no need for a plan, discussions, no pulling, no strategy - everything is dumbed down to the lowest possible denominator
- here is what you do: use two keys attack 1 and attack 2 (or one key if you happen to be a druid tank - swipe) - then rush through in 10 minutes - then redoit again. You never get to know anyone - form any type of relationship - you are one faceless henchman - but hey you can run the same dungeon a huge number of times!
you know what is next? computer generated bots that you can play with even when your internet connection is down.
As peoples do not like most MMO aspects WoW is aiming mostly to counter such mechanics. This feature match perfectly the last years concept of WoW. When peoples will understand and stop crying that WoW is aiming at multiplayer but not massive mechanics...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
I think the new grouping system is a shot in the arm for WoW and opens 5-man heroics up to the 'casuals'. Before it was introduced groups were over-gearing for them and had crazy gear / DPS expectations. The only negative thing I have to say against it is you can't queue for a dungeon and a BG at the same time. The end result is the BG's are a lot quieter as getting gear through badges is a lot easier than honour. That's a shame for those of us that play BG's for fun.
The new PvP season with the new gear opens within two weeks, so it is normal dungeons are a preferred play these days.
Expect a rush to BG's when the new PvP gear - on par with patch 3.3 - gets available.
That said I a logged in right now (01:30 PM on wednesday and I have 8 WSG, 5 AB, 2 AV, 3 Eye of Storm, 2 Strand and 1 Isle to enter.
So that's still 21 BG's on an mid day afternoon on Battlegroup Blackout EU.
On prime time that's around 40 Bg's. So I don't see any problem, not even when the new PvP gear and season pacth that isn't launched yet.
The cross server BG's were introduced in 2006.
A massive succes I might say (just like the cross server dungeons now).
IS this what people do on this forum? Point out the obvious over and over?
Hello!!! WoW has like 11 million people playing it, of course the damn game has people playing it 24/7.
Cross servers are no more a success than WoW it self. People were running bg and dungeons on every level at all times of the day/night even before these features.
One of the major selling points is that WoW has an amazing amount of people playing it. The need for people to point this out over an over only makes the non-fans of the game upset.
IS this what people do on this forum? Point out the obvious over and over? Hello!!! WoW has like 11 million people playing it, of course the damn game has people playing it 24/7. Cross servers are no more a success than WoW it self. People were running bg and dungeons on every level at all times of the day/night even before these features. One of the major selling points is that WoW has an amazing amount of people playing it. The need for people to point this out over an over only makes the non-fans of the game upset.
I don't agree.
The reason WOW has all those players is because it uses these mechanics that makes it all possible.
That's why it is important to point out these mechanics with which it triggered these million subs.
IF there weren't any BG clusters, you would have to wait 2 hours to begin play an AV just like it was in mid 2006.
The people are spoiled so fast these days with cross server dungeons most people don't even remember anymore those hourly and even daily and weekly searches to do certain dungeons in the leveling department.
Hammering on these new techniques shows bits of why the players keep coming and should be a lesson to other developpers.
24/7 play came not "by accident" and the above shows the techniques on which it is based.
You could apply it to a number of other MMo's. Lotro comes to mind.
And WAR did just the opposite: divide the players in on realm Tiers, in seperate Rvr's, in seperate on server BG's.
So quite a lesson here to learn for the "upset" fans.
----
In fact non fans of the game should read about the mechanics I write about (like the fluid fast and responsive controls of avatars). Issues which explain WOW's millions.
It helps to explain WHY those 11.6 million were in there in June as a record of the Guinees book, instead of using Mac Donalds to explain in vain why all those paying subs don't mean anything.
No Zorn, you missed his point.
We all know WoW has the largest number, but it's spread over the largest number of servers and largest number of countries. It is possible that for some servers at some time, the active population for some activities is still low.
Take our server, when its peak time for raid, the servers are packed but everyone is flying to ICC or some to ToC. It actually is a bad time to go random dungeons, healers are hardest to find, but surprisingly even dps are all busy going 25mans, good luck finding them idle for random dungeons.
Zorn, I know you love WoW, but at least, let us talk about issues in our beloved WoW. It is not perfect in every manner for everyone during every moment in our online time.
I think the new grouping system is a shot in the arm for WoW and opens 5-man heroics up to the 'casuals'. Before it was introduced groups were over-gearing for them and had crazy gear / DPS expectations. The only negative thing I have to say against it is you can't queue for a dungeon and a BG at the same time. The end result is the BG's are a lot quieter as getting gear through badges is a lot easier than honour. That's a shame for those of us that play BG's for fun.
The new PvP season with the new gear opens within two weeks, so it is normal dungeons are a preferred play these days.
Expect a rush to BG's when the new PvP gear - on par with patch 3.3 - gets available.
That said I a logged in right now (01:30 PM on wednesday and I have 8 WSG, 5 AB, 2 AV, 3 Eye of Storm, 2 Strand and 1 Isle to enter.
So that's still 21 BG's on an mid day afternoon on Battlegroup Blackout EU.
On prime time that's around 40 Bg's. So I don't see any problem, not even when the new PvP gear and season pacth that isn't launched yet.
The cross server BG's were introduced in 2006.
A massive succes I might say (just like the cross server dungeons now).
If you don't mind saying - what Battlegroup are you in?
I'm in Frenzy EU and at best we have 4 WSG and 1 AB running at peak time at 80 bracket - that's it 5 BG's! AV is a distant memory in all brackets, I've seen it run once since they stopped us queuing for 3 BG's at once. Eye of the Storm hardly ever comes up expecpt on it's holiday weekend and then it's only every couple of hours. I get to play Isle of Conquest maybe once a month if I'm lucky.
My 34 alt has 1 WSG at peak time if he's lucky and my Mage and Warrior in the 60 bracket have 1 or 2 WSG running simultaneously + 1 AB every couple of hours.
BG's just aren't happening as they are designed to be on Fenzy so all I can say is lucky you. I wish they would merge some Battklegroups as yours is obviously working as intened whilst groups like mine aren't
_________________________________________ You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
Blah blah blah... Dungeon Finder is just freaking awesome. Pick a role, experience level, dungeon(s) and wait... not long. Group or solo just as good. MMO are about the group coop environment and this tool brings WoW up to snuff with CoX for quick grouping.
You may not like it but its bringing people back to WoW in droves... me included. Many of my EQ2 guild jumped over too. Guys at work also looking at WoW again after being away for years. LFG tool is the awesome sauce plain and simple.
I still find myself too bored when playing the game.
Had that problem since release really, it just wasn't challenging then and remains with a lack of challenge. I enjoyed collecting outfits and cool looking items, mounts, and pets for a while, but that really only goes so far when there's a distinct lack of dynamics, customization, or persistence beyond character progression.
But, from all accounts so far, it seems I can't find a game that's actually challenging enough online regardless. ^_^ Stuck with good old tabletop and war games. Now if only I could customize my Go pieces to look cuter...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
After long deliberations with several of the worlds most renouned computer scientists, psychologists, antropologists, and heads of state, we have dtermined through calculus a formula that can be used to avoid this pressing issue.
(Make friends) + (and) / don't use / (the dungeon) - ( finder) * 2 / 2
I know it seems complicated, to all but the headiest geniuses, but if you break it down by components and reconstruct it in a logical manner i'm sure you'll find a way to implement.
Sanity is a delusion. The only truth is madness.
After long deliberations with several of the worlds most renouned computer scientists, psychologists, antropologists, and heads of state, we have dtermined through calculus a formula that can be used to avoid this pressing issue.
(Make friends) + (and) / don't use / (the dungeon) - ( finder) * 2 / 2
I know it seems complicated, to all but the headiest geniuses, but if you break it down by components and reconstruct it in a logical manner i'm sure you'll find a way to implement.
The real issue is not there, the real issue is, these big guys want us and everyone not to use a new optional tool, b/c they have an unexplainable hatred to it.
Quite simply I agree 100% with the OP.
The new LfG thing sounds interesting so far. Only that I mainly leveled through dungeons when playing WoW. Questing bored me, and the first two years you could easily find groups for everything and after a patch hit, you could find lots of people interested in current dungeons.
They only need to improve the 5-men dungeons again to get me playing again. I dont want to walk down a more or less straight hallway with trashmobs and a few bosses on the way. A few more complex dungeons (maze like) are highly welcome.
Before the dungeon finder was implemented I was grouping with strangers, so what's the deal now? Those "henchman" have been friendly to me for the most part. And what's going on with relationships? There is something called real life out of a MMO lol
I think its great tbh. I think the idea of just logging on, getting a group within minutes is just sheer better for casual play. Yes there is the problems mentioned in OP but it shouldn't be forgotten that you still can make your own group on the server if you so wish.
Believe it or not kid, some people that have real lives like to form in game relationships with people in the mmo's they play in.
Believe it or not kid, some people that have real lives like to form in game relationships with people in the mmo's they play in.
But then the dungeon finder is an additional tool that these people can use or not use, depending on their experience finding in game relationships. Fact is, after gaming with a bunch of people in a random heroic chains, I am considering starting an alt in their server. I have a level 1 alt made in their server and is talking to them.
I don't know exactly what they are going to do with it but when Blizzard finishes BattleNet 2.0 they say it's gonna let you talk to people in different Blizzard games so it's probably gonna let you talk to friends on other servers too.
But I have no idea if it'll let you group up with them to run instances.
I don't know exactly what they are going to do with it but when Blizzard finishes BattleNet 2.0 they say it's gonna let you talk to people in different Blizzard games so it's probably gonna let you talk to friends on other servers too.
But I have no idea if it'll let you group up with them to run instances.
This is a very wise way of doing business with your clients. Internalise all links and contacts, so whoever they talk to are Blizz clients in a Blizz environment, maybe with chat tools facilitating links to Blizz web pages (armory) or whatever. In other words. locking the clients inside your shop so they do not see the display window of your competitors.
Blizz knows how to make money.
I think the new grouping system is a shot in the arm for WoW and opens 5-man heroics up to the 'casuals'. Before it was introduced groups were over-gearing for them and had crazy gear / DPS expectations.
The only negative thing I have to say against it is you can't queue for a dungeon and a BG at the same time. The end result is the BG's are a lot quieter as getting gear through badges is a lot easier than honour. That's a shame for those of us that play BG's for fun.
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
and yet 90% of em have never played an MMO in their life and seem to think quests are the only (and best) way to level up.
Anyway i don't think they needed to nerf the instances so much. It's a bit sad to come back to the game to find fights that where tough are now easy, boss fights that are now over in under a minute and if you manage to screw up a pull so badly that you end up pulling 2-3 rooms you can survive because of how weak the monsters are now.
Still i think the system is a great idea and it certainly speeds up looking for new players (and travelling to the dungeons). The nerf was not needed.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
As peoples do not like most MMO aspects WoW is aiming mostly to counter such mechanics. This feature match perfectly the last years concept of WoW. When peoples will understand and stop crying that WoW is aiming at multiplayer but not massive mechanics...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
The new PvP season with the new gear opens within two weeks, so it is normal dungeons are a preferred play these days.
Expect a rush to BG's when the new PvP gear - on par with patch 3.3 - gets available.
That said I a logged in right now (01:30 PM on wednesday and I have 8 WSG, 5 AB, 2 AV, 3 Eye of Storm, 2 Strand and 1 Isle to enter.
So that's still 21 BG's on an mid day afternoon on Battlegroup Blackout EU.
On prime time that's around 40 Bg's. So I don't see any problem, not even when the new PvP gear and season pacth that isn't launched yet.
The cross server BG's were introduced in 2006.
A massive succes I might say (just like the cross server dungeons now).
IS this what people do on this forum? Point out the obvious over and over?
Hello!!! WoW has like 11 million people playing it, of course the damn game has people playing it 24/7.
Cross servers are no more a success than WoW it self. People were running bg and dungeons on every level at all times of the day/night even before these features.
One of the major selling points is that WoW has an amazing amount of people playing it. The need for people to point this out over an over only makes the non-fans of the game upset.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I don't agree.
The reason WOW has all those players is because it uses these mechanics that makes it all possible.
That's why it is important to point out these mechanics with which it triggered these million subs.
IF there weren't any BG clusters, you would have to wait 2 hours to begin play an AV just like it was in mid 2006.
The people are spoiled so fast these days with cross server dungeons most people don't even remember anymore those hourly and even daily and weekly searches to do certain dungeons in the leveling department.
Hammering on these new techniques shows bits of why the players keep coming and should be a lesson to other developpers.
24/7 play came not "by accident" and the above shows the techniques on which it is based.
You could apply it to a number of other MMo's. Lotro comes to mind.
And WAR did just the opposite: divide the players in on realm Tiers, in seperate Rvr's, in seperate on server BG's.
So quite a lesson here to learn for the "upset" fans.
----
In fact non fans of the game should read about the mechanics I write about (like the fluid fast and responsive controls of avatars). Issues which explain WOW's millions.
It helps to explain WHY those 11.6 million were in there in June as a record of the Guinees book, instead of using Mac Donalds to explain in vain why all those paying subs don't mean anything.
No Zorn, you missed his point.
We all know WoW has the largest number, but it's spread over the largest number of servers and largest number of countries. It is possible that for some servers at some time, the active population for some activities is still low.
Take our server, when its peak time for raid, the servers are packed but everyone is flying to ICC or some to ToC. It actually is a bad time to go random dungeons, healers are hardest to find, but surprisingly even dps are all busy going 25mans, good luck finding them idle for random dungeons.
Zorn, I know you love WoW, but at least, let us talk about issues in our beloved WoW. It is not perfect in every manner for everyone during every moment in our online time.
The new PvP season with the new gear opens within two weeks, so it is normal dungeons are a preferred play these days.
Expect a rush to BG's when the new PvP gear - on par with patch 3.3 - gets available.
That said I a logged in right now (01:30 PM on wednesday and I have 8 WSG, 5 AB, 2 AV, 3 Eye of Storm, 2 Strand and 1 Isle to enter.
So that's still 21 BG's on an mid day afternoon on Battlegroup Blackout EU.
On prime time that's around 40 Bg's. So I don't see any problem, not even when the new PvP gear and season pacth that isn't launched yet.
The cross server BG's were introduced in 2006.
A massive succes I might say (just like the cross server dungeons now).
If you don't mind saying - what Battlegroup are you in?
I'm in Frenzy EU and at best we have 4 WSG and 1 AB running at peak time at 80 bracket - that's it 5 BG's! AV is a distant memory in all brackets, I've seen it run once since they stopped us queuing for 3 BG's at once. Eye of the Storm hardly ever comes up expecpt on it's holiday weekend and then it's only every couple of hours. I get to play Isle of Conquest maybe once a month if I'm lucky.
My 34 alt has 1 WSG at peak time if he's lucky and my Mage and Warrior in the 60 bracket have 1 or 2 WSG running simultaneously + 1 AB every couple of hours.
BG's just aren't happening as they are designed to be on Fenzy so all I can say is lucky you. I wish they would merge some Battklegroups as yours is obviously working as intened whilst groups like mine aren't
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
Blah blah blah... Dungeon Finder is just freaking awesome. Pick a role, experience level, dungeon(s) and wait... not long. Group or solo just as good. MMO are about the group coop environment and this tool brings WoW up to snuff with CoX for quick grouping.
You may not like it but its bringing people back to WoW in droves... me included. Many of my EQ2 guild jumped over too. Guys at work also looking at WoW again after being away for years. LFG tool is the awesome sauce plain and simple.
I still find myself too bored when playing the game.
Had that problem since release really, it just wasn't challenging then and remains with a lack of challenge. I enjoyed collecting outfits and cool looking items, mounts, and pets for a while, but that really only goes so far when there's a distinct lack of dynamics, customization, or persistence beyond character progression.
But, from all accounts so far, it seems I can't find a game that's actually challenging enough online regardless. ^_^ Stuck with good old tabletop and war games. Now if only I could customize my Go pieces to look cuter...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin