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Should have been expected
greed0104
Member Posts: 2,134
...But how long will it be before every mob is yellow in the open world? I just resubbed to play with family and friends, I found myself restarting with them on another server only to find WoW has gotten easier. I didn't know it was possible without giving everybody an IWIN button but apparently it is. I guess I underestimated blizzard.
Anyways, to the point. What was the reasoning for making the starting zone mobs all non-aggressive? And to be specific I'm playing undead, the spiders are yellow (even the ones inside the cave) the camp of scarlet members as well including the leader. So I'm willing to bet in the next few years, max of two, the world will not introduce any danger what so ever. But as the title says, should have been expected.
Comments
I always figured it was to allow new players to learn the basics of fighting before throwing them into a mob that aggros. I've played games there were like that and it was frustrating. It was just a main not yet knowing how to fight or what to expect but being chased around by a bunch of crap trying to kill me. Once I get the basics down, I'm good with aggressive mobs. Yeah, it's boring if you go back and make a new character but I remember playing for the first time and having to adjust because WoW was different than other games I'd played.
That's the thing, WoW never was difficult and I'm not basing this just on my own experience. I know people that never touch games, but play WoW. None of them ever had a problem with the starting zones. If anything it was a introduction to the dangers you would encounter. Even then it was hardly dangerous. I have also never seen a complaint made about a starting zone.
This happened a long time ago. I too was surprised. I remember when owls (and I think boars) were red. No more.
And I agree with the OP. Was this really necessary? I thought it had a good balance in the starter areas introducing you to combat first and then how aggro mobs behave after. In fact it's a bit of a disservice to not teach that and wait for the hapless newb to come across a gnoll camp.
Not a big deal in the scheme of things but indicative of the general nerfing of the game.
Hey, maybe you rolled on a PVN (Player versus Nothing) server, where you have to flag yourself for PVE or the mobs can't attack you!
Exactly, it was more of an introduction to the aggro mechanic then anything else.
Saw no question or opening for discussion. Just a whine and moan and the usual trolling of WoW... But then, on this site, what can be expected. Any serious discussion has been killed years ago, now its just one huge whine site.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Don't give the devs ideas :P
"What was the reasoning for making the starting zone mobs all non-aggressive?"
You have to read more then one sentence.
But that's just you. There are quests that I think are a piece of cake that other players really struggle with at various levels. How well you pick something up is subjective and I came from a different sort of game. In other games, I'd target something and hit an attack. My character would then run to the target and begin attacking. Not so in WoW and I remember reading about right-clicking a target to attack and finding that really annoying since I had just bought a Macbook Pro and was still adjusting to it as well. My boyfriend is the one who pointed out the auto-attack being hotkeyed and it took a few kills to adjust. Now it's like second nature but when I first started, it wasn't. If I had gotten slaughtered by mobs while trying to figure that out, I probably would have been annoyed but that's just me. It's not that it's hard, just frustrating when trying to learn something new.
I remember starting a game and being squashed right at level one. I stuck with it for maybe half an hour and after 2 or 3 deaths and much confusion with little time to learn, I uninstalled it. To me, level one shouldn't be that annoying...it's like skipping Subtraction, Addition, and Multiplication and going straight to Long Division.
EDIT: And as far as introduction to aggro goes...everyone is acting like it's nonexistent. So what if you are introduced to it at level 5 instead of at level one or whatever? I remember being chased through a mine by Kobolds at like 6 or 7 and let's not forget the Murlocs. You still get introduced to aggro so you still learn. And actually, I also remember being a Human Warlock (before they allowed you to just buy your Imp) and being aggroed by 3 Defias guys trying to get the quest item for my Imp. Pushing back that introduction a few levels is so insignificant in the long run that this really seems like nitpicking and another way to try and separate the older players from the newer players and to make the latter seem inferior.
But that's just you. There are quests that I think are a piece of cake that other players really struggle with at various levels. How well you pick something up is subjective and I came from a different sort of game. In other games, I'd target something and hit an attack. My character would then run to the target and begin attacking. Not so in WoW and I remember reading about right-clicking a target to attack and finding that really annoying since I had just bought a Macbook Pro and was still adjusting to it as well. My boyfriend is the one who pointed out the auto-attack being hotkeyed and it took a few kills to adjust. Now it's like second nature but when I first started, it wasn't. If I had gotten slaughtered by mobs while trying to figure that out, I probably would have been annoyed but that's just me. It's not that it's hard, just frustrating when trying to learn something new.
I remember starting a game and being squashed right at level one. I stuck with it for maybe half an hour and after 2 or 3 deaths and much confusion with little time to learn, I uninstalled it. To me, level one shouldn't be that annoying...it's like skipping Subtraction, Addition, and Multiplication and going straight to Long Division.
Limited to our experiences, yes. However it still served as a player advancement in understanding mechanics and bettering himself at the game. I just don't understand why this move was made, I'm not sure if it was made to ease the player into the world or to fill lines in Blizzards patch notes.
But that's just you. There are quests that I think are a piece of cake that other players really struggle with at various levels. How well you pick something up is subjective and I came from a different sort of game. In other games, I'd target something and hit an attack. My character would then run to the target and begin attacking. Not so in WoW and I remember reading about right-clicking a target to attack and finding that really annoying since I had just bought a Macbook Pro and was still adjusting to it as well. My boyfriend is the one who pointed out the auto-attack being hotkeyed and it took a few kills to adjust. Now it's like second nature but when I first started, it wasn't. If I had gotten slaughtered by mobs while trying to figure that out, I probably would have been annoyed but that's just me. It's not that it's hard, just frustrating when trying to learn something new.
I remember starting a game and being squashed right at level one. I stuck with it for maybe half an hour and after 2 or 3 deaths and much confusion with little time to learn, I uninstalled it. To me, level one shouldn't be that annoying...it's like skipping Subtraction, Addition, and Multiplication and going straight to Long Division.
Limited to our experiences, yes. However it still served as a player advancement in understanding mechanics and bettering himself at the game. I just don't understand why this move was made, I'm not sure if it was made to ease the player into the world or to fill lines in Blizzards patch notes.
Sorry, I addressed this second part late in my above post. But as I said in my edit, that advancement is still there. It comes a few levels later but given that there are 80 levels, soon to be 85, and a crapload of content for new players, it's pretty insignificant in the long run. I don't see any information/data suggesting that one way is better than the other. I know players who started at different times with varying degrees of skill and knowledge and the ones starting now aren't necessarily worse than the ones who started before the change.
I personally think they did this for the reason I stated before. New players want to get into the world and learn the basics and then move on. For example...that game I mentioned before that I quit...I wanted to get into it, see what the battle system was like, learn it, then progress into harder things. Throwing me into a world where I couldn't even take a breath to figure out where I was going was so frustrating that I just figured screw it. I don't think Blizz wants its new players getting frustrated before they have had a chance to really experience the game so they give new players a bit of time to figure things out and then they throw in red mobs.
And really...you are an old player...red mobs or yellow, you know what you are doing. Either way, it's going to be easy for you so there really isn't much reason in being bothered by it. Waiting until level 5 to introduce red mobs isn't that big of a deal. You can level to 5 in one day so there isn't too much of a gap.
You make some good points however I just can't agree with the change, small changes like this can turn into rather big ones. Part the of the basics, in my opinion, is aggro and how it works. Yellow means passive, red means aggressive. I'm not upset about the change, just a bit disappointed. I enjoy multitasking mobs, and it's something that needs to be learned asap, even if it means the mobs are fairly weaker then the ones you will encounter at level 6.
I'm sure part of my disappointment is due to me playing WoW for quite some time and being used to what I considered normal and taboo to change. I'm not a hater, I'll continue to play the game.
I tried to get a friend to play WoW, he aggroed a bunch of spiders and died in the undead starting zone... has never played MMO's since. some people are just noob, I like aggro the way it was. More noobs beating hapless npcs, that don't know how to play the game is all we need.
You make some good points however I just can't agree with the change, small changes like this can turn into rather big ones. Part the of the basics, in my opinion, is aggro and how it works. Yellow means passive, red means aggressive. I'm not upset about the change, just a bit disappointed. I enjoy multitasking mobs, and it's something that needs to be learned asap, even if it means the mobs are fairly weaker then the ones you will encounter at level 6.
I'm sure part of my disappointment is due to me playing WoW for quite some time and being used to what I considered normal and taboo to change. I'm not a hater, I'll continue to play the game.
Well see, I just started something like four months ago so it doesn't seem like a big deal to me because I learned. It's not like them putting it off a few levels has made me clueless. Seems to me like people are going to learn at their own pace because everyone reacts to things differently. For example, how do you know that if those mobs had been all red versus yellow that I would have noticed a difference? It's essentially flipped from them being all red and introducing yellow to them being all (or mostly, haven't checked recently) yellow and then introducing red and I still picked up on it after a bit of messing around. But giving me that time to figure out that my auto-attack was hot-keyed and that new quests were marked with ! and finished quests were marked with ?, etc., made the introduction of red mobs easier to grasp and adjust to. Now I'm not saying that how things were when you started was really hard...I wouldn't know...but I could see Blizz's desire to ease up on lowbies to hopefully pull in more players who might be easily discouraged when trying something new. One to five isn't where I learned the vast majority of my knowledge anyways. I didn't even realize we had talent points until about level 14 or so and that's only because my boyfriend told me.
I personally think a lot of older players' views are skewed to some extent. For example...mounts...I've heard people complaining that OMG! You can get mounts 20 levels earlier now! Okay...was it hard before or just tedious? Because to me, there is a difference. Going up against a badass boss that takes several tries to beat is hard. Walking for an hour is tedious. I like hard. I hate tedious. I mean, I worked at my county commissioner's office over the summer and they're scanning voter registration cards into their database because they want to go electronic. I sat there day in and day out doing it...was it hard? No. But it sure as hell was tedious and that was enough to make me hate it. I just think you guys could loosen up a little with some things. One to five may be easier but what is more important in the long run? I personally think later quests are easy and should toughen up because I don't really struggle with them. I would rather one to five be easy and then it progressively get harder and as a new player, I can't say that the quests really are all that hard to me...
@x10122007
I don't disagree with lowering the mount level and cost, it was just tedious before. But then again, WoW thrives on tedious activities. Not sure how far you are, but eventually dailies will drive you up the wall.
Every little thing blizzard can do to put a wall in front of the player to climb over, no matter what size, is a good thing. Some of WoWs older greatest challenges made the game absolutely amazing. I would like to see more quests like the hunters Petrified Leaf chain, you would have had to of been there to experience a difficult challenge while being extremely fun,exciting and rewarding. And in my opinion there is no greater reward then overcoming obstacles even if they are only difficult to a hand full of players.
ZOMG! Too funny!
I actually have that, but only GMs can use it. Makes it nice to debug a zone without pulling aggro.
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
Oh I know there are tedious activities but using a mount or not using one is definitely a huge factor in how much you enjoy the game. Dailies, however, aren't necessary. You can do them if you want to but if you don't, it's not a big deal. You can't say the same thing for walking. To get to new towns and to quests and the like, you must walk/fly/etc. there. So there is a difference in the sort of walls they're putting up. Is it integral to the game or something that can be ignored with little to no impact on your gaming experience overall? I mean, I'm doing fishing dailies now and the one I have at the moment requires that I tag myself PvP. I probably won't do it since I still get whipped given that I'm not yet at level 80 but it's not killing me to abandon it and wait for a new one. I haven't even done a cooking daily yet because it hasn't interested me. But regardless...I still have to get around you know?
Okay let me ask you this...what did I miss out on because of this change? One to five was easy, okay...but I still feel that I've overcome obstacles. I feel that overcoming level one is minor until you can't overcome it and quit and Blizz loses your business. I know the difference between yellow mobs and red mobs and I'm a good enough healer that I get invited to other instances by people outside my guild and I have fun. So what is it that I missed?
Most of the starting zone creatures were non aggressive to begin with so I don't see why your wasting your time tell us this.
Oh I know there are tedious activities but using a mount or not using one is definitely a huge factor in how much you enjoy the game. Dailies, however, aren't necessary. You can do them if you want to but if you don't, it's not a big deal. You can't say the same thing for walking. To get to new towns and to quests and the like, you must walk/fly/etc. there. So there is a difference in the sort of walls they're putting up. Is it integral to the game or something that can be ignored with little to no impact on your gaming experience overall? I mean, I'm doing fishing dailies now and the one I have at the moment requires that I tag myself PvP. I probably won't do it since I still get whipped given that I'm not yet at level 80 but it's not killing me to abandon it and wait for a new one. I haven't even done a cooking daily yet because it hasn't interested me. But regardless...I still have to get around you know?
Okay let me ask you this...what did I miss out on because of this change? One to five was easy, okay...but I still feel that I've overcome obstacles. I feel that overcoming level one is minor until you can't overcome it and quit and Blizz loses your business. I know the difference between yellow mobs and red mobs and I'm a good enough healer that I get invited to other instances by people outside my guild and I have fun. So what is it that I missed?
Until you reach 80 and find out dallies will be your primary source of income, I'm going to disregard you believing it's an option.
It's not about what I'm missing, it's about every new player to enter the game. And I believe I have listed those reasons. These sort of things weed out those not capable of overcoming very basic challenges, these challenges all though fairly easy introduce the player to what he will encounter soon, on a higher scale of difficulty and with each level that difficulty may kick up. These small things being removed have resulted in players that don't understand how their class operates. This results in piss poor PuGs. Something people do enjoy, it's a very ordinary part of meeting and adventuring with new players. But if you can't fill your roll properly what use are you? You can think this sounds far-fetched, but again, from WoWs launch the beginning of TBC, PuGs were great, not so much anymore.
I'm not expecting you to agree, I'm taking a (and all thought I hate the term when being used in MMOs) WoW "vet" stance on this issue. I know the game inside and out, and I know where many of the flaws of modern players are coming from. And you're answer is, there is no longer a challenge, and when you finally do reach the "challenging" parts, you're already top level failing to carry out your role. The problem I listed now is small, but eventually it will grow. Here is an example, group quests in WOTLk all list as needing multiple members most of them are soloable for every class.
I'm about to head to bed, so if you don't get another response from me, it's because I'm out, I'll check in on it sometime tomorrow.
Most of the starting zone creatures were non aggressive to begin with so I don't see why your wasting your time tell us this.
I believe reading comprehension is not difficult.
If that's how you take this, then by all means, continue to remain blind to the problem at hand.
OK, I'll admit it, even though I had played MMO's about 3 yrs before WOW, (Lineage 1/2, DAOC and Shadowbane) I found WOW's starter zone during beta (my first character was a Druid) a real ichbay and I kept getting myself killed or having to run off.
Not sure why I had trouble managing aggro ranges or whatever (I think they roamed more than in my previous games) but the experience was unpleasant enough that I made a Paladin instead once the game launched but had little trouble in that starting zone outside of struggling with 200 other players for all the mobs everywhere in Goldshire. (and the damn loot lag and server crashes)
One I got the hang off it, no problem. But I can see where perhaps a totally new MMORPG player (of which WOW has brought in many) might struggle through a starter zone of red mobs.
Aion eases users in slowly, first with non-aggro mobs, then it introduces the concept of BAF, followed by aggro by time you get to level 6 or so.
Was a pretty good way to deal with training new players.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The WoW starter zone is lvl 1-5 or 6. You usually get through in an hour or 2. Its just a warm up. Red mobs only make it take longer to get out, unless you are twinked.
The whole idea of non aggro mobs, and no stunning when hit from behind for low levels, is to help those new comers without twinking or plvl. If you know your way with MMOs, if you have fully decked out BoA gear, or you have a lvl 80 buffing and healing you, the red mobs does not matter. You will get thru the zone in 2 hours anyway.
For the true newbies, who might be attracted to join after 3.3 and cata, these changes makes life easier till lvl 15 (full stun allowed when hit from behind by mobs). That was the purpose.
That change is not for you WoW vet. It is us noobs.
OP if you never played WoW before would you of known the difference?
I rolled a Nelf just before 3.3 and I am sure the spiders in the cave were red as were some of the mobs outside.. level 4's.
Either way, Blizzard has data on milliions of players going through the starting zones and numbers based on how many quit never to return after getting killed in the starter zone and so they deemed the change nessesary.
There's a reason WoW still has millions playing 5 years after release it cus they make little change like this, not all will agree but the numbers support their decisions. please no Mc'D comments.
My first hour of my first MMO was different then that of WoWs. I didn't have a guide telling me where to go or what to do I had to find out and figure out everything for myself. I died many times before I met a few people to show me the ropes. And to be honest that was the best day I ever had in a MMO. I guess if blizzard is constantly working off data it wont be long before silverpine and other second zones are full of yellow mobs.
Other then this change, I'm liking some of the other changes, although the other ones I have noticed are mostly appearance, like the character creation and race screen.
I don't fall back on analogies to prove my points, so don't expect any from me.
I already agreed to not everybody agreeing with the changes, I don't care if I'm in the minority or majority or not either.
I wouldn't have known the change was made, but that's clearly not the point I'm trying to make. I'm not a stubborn old gamer that will let little things like this keep me from playing I will adapt, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I guess I got my answer though. I hope Blizzard keeps in mind sometimes you can't learn anything unless you have a difficult time from time to time. I'll see where this goes. I just hope it doesn't go any further then this. I'm not sure how long you have played WoW, but would you not agree there is a very large amount of players at 80 not able to pull the minimum DPS while being geared to do so? Bad tanks and healers as well. I just believe these guys were not challenged enough, and now they have a long road of encountering impatient players that will drop them from the group if they don't perform to basic expectations.
You're a Hunter, right? If you played vanilla WoW, do you remember or did you do the Petrified Leaf chain? If so you know how challenging those fights were. It taught you advanced kiting, how abilities were situational and showed you understood your class.
All I'm asking is for more challenges like this one.
If You guys have not seen the quest, this is 1/4 and was my favorite and most rewarding one out of all of them.