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Should have been expected
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Haha.
Ultimately that's true.
What a game is will be opinionated, if games are only about entertainment for you, good, I'm glad you found your own personal reasons for playing.
I to like entertainment, I also like the reward of taking on something challenging. I'm NOT asking for WoW to be cutthroat hardcore, I'm asking for players to be challenged in some way. It's an MMO, if you plan on progressing you should plan on encountering challenges.
May I suggest an alternative strategy? Try playing several games. Don't try to get everything from a single game. Sometimes, I play wow, sometimes, it's Guild Wars. And sometimes, I'll even spend a little time with DDO, because I enjoy the puzzle-based problem solving and the ability to dungeon crawl in a short period time. Hell, I still play Diablo 2 for some quick hack-and-slash.
That's pretty much what I do as well. Though nowadays I only play WoW if there's new content released. If it's content that requires major grinding to get to, I go off and about again and just watch it on youtube. I'm thinking about playing some FFXI again personally; I've been playing guild wars and that new Grand Fantasia too much lately. Though after a few hours of each I get bored again and go out to the movies or library for some extra research on my thesis.
Been playing WoW on and off for about 5 years now and I have to say that this change introduce does very little to effect the experience new players will still have to face after they cross over from the newbie zone. Level 5 mobs and above outside the starting area still aggro the same way, introductions to beginner instances have not been pushed up. The only thing that IS different is that new players are/will be faced with an additional 20 to 25 levels of content before they reach 80/85.
Back when we started there were only 60 levels, not many dungeons, raids or quest than there are now. So it's easy for me to accept pushing back the lesson of "mob aggro" for one zone. And that's what it all boils down to, one zone as a aggro free area and it's not even instanced like I've seen newbie zones in other MMOs, that for the most part only serve to further limit what a new player experiences by keeping them from wandering too far too soon:
All of these and more MMOs had specific newbie areas that were impossible to wander out from unless you completed the introductory quest/tutorial. So again I see no beef to how this change means anything other than making a more user-friendly starting zone. Because of the new DF tool, more players will be exposed to group content and instance runs. Which will in fact lead to better trained players who may have 100+ dungeon runs under their belt as opposed only a few with the old system.
But I don't see anyone making threads to discuss this issue.........strange.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
now now don't fret we all know you're the best troll on the forums, no one can post anything about any game without you spamming WoW in it. and if you didn't care then why bother trolling his post?
but to the OP i'm not sure why they did that, i don't think i ever saw anyone complaining about the spiders in the cave at the undead starter area being too tough. there wasn't a need for it, i don't see anyone rage quitting because a level 5 spider killed them. they've been dumbing everything down more and more, and not sure why, i mean they have huge subs as it was why did they think it needed made easier?
Been playing WoW on and off for about 5 years now and I have to say that this change introduce does very little to effect the experience new players will still have to face after they cross over from the newbie zone. Level 5 mobs and above outside the starting area still aggro the same way, introductions to beginner instances have not been pushed up. The only thing that IS different is that new players are/will be faced with an additional 20 to 25 levels of content before they reach 80/85.
Back when we started there were only 60 levels, not many dungeons, raids or quest than there are now. So it's easy for me to accept pushing back the lesson of "mob aggro" for one zone. And that's what it all boils down to, one zone as a aggro free area and it's not even instanced like I've seen newbie zones in other MMOs, that for the most part only serve to further limit what a new player experiences by keeping them from wandering too far too soon:
All of these and more MMOs had specific newbie areas that were impossible to wander out from unless you completed the introductory quest/tutorial. So again I see no beef to how this change means anything other than making a more user-friendly starting zone. Because of the new DF tool, more players will be exposed to group content and instance runs. Which will in fact lead to better trained players who may have 100+ dungeon runs under their belt as opposed only a few with the old system.
But I don't see anyone making threads to discuss this issue.........strange.
Is it to much for people to read the entire thread before responding to see where we are at this point?
Do I have to add color and underlines to make my point as well?
This is not about this one change, it's a question of it will grow into a much larger problem.
You won that title long ago zorn.
Been playing WoW on and off for about 5 years now and I have to say that this change introduce does very little to effect the experience new players will still have to face after they cross over from the newbie zone. Level 5 mobs and above outside the starting area still aggro the same way, introductions to beginner instances have not been pushed up. The only thing that IS different is that new players are/will be faced with an additional 20 to 25 levels of content before they reach 80/85.
Back when we started there were only 60 levels, not many dungeons, raids or quest than there are now. So it's easy for me to accept pushing back the lesson of "mob aggro" for one zone. And that's what it all boils down to, one zone as a aggro free area and it's not even instanced like I've seen newbie zones in other MMOs, that for the most part only serve to further limit what a new player experiences by keeping them from wandering too far too soon:
All of these and more MMOs had specific newbie areas that were impossible to wander out from unless you completed the introductory quest/tutorial. So again I see no beef to how this change means anything other than making a more user-friendly starting zone. Because of the new DF tool, more players will be exposed to group content and instance runs. Which will in fact lead to better trained players who may have 100+ dungeon runs under their belt as opposed only a few with the old system.
But I don't see anyone making threads to discuss this issue.........strange.
Is it to much for people to read the entire thread before responding to see where we are at this point?
Do I have to add color and underlines to make my point as well?
This is not about this one change, it's a question of it will grow into a much larger problem.
The minute change that your talking about was implemented a very very long time ago. It isn't going to grow into a larger problem. Blizzard made the game very user friendly for the first time player but they know they would start to lose subs and they crossed the line.
I took a really long break, with the intentions of quiting. In short I ran out of things to do, games to play etc. The only reason I returned to WoW is because of family and friends.
I also noticed I don't need food or water for about the first 12 levels or so, sure, it's not growing, at all. Instant health regen ftw?
Perhaps you could start by reading my post and I explained it quite well why they are doing this two steps above.
it's a success btw - people play MORE in groups than before because of these "softer" modes.
You LFG system will only hold the pressure of soft to hard modes if it gives a certain percentage of succes rates.
The hard modes is for the REAL orgainsed groups, the soft modes is for the casual / off spec /alt modes.
But BOTH reinforce each other as long as you have a very smart itemisation.
And oh boy Blizzard is far smarter than you think (see above).
Of coarse people will play more in groups because of these softer modes, the bad players aren't being weeded out like they should. It's always very apparent who the bad players are, it's usually the ones pushing and defending changes like these.
Underline mode! Is it you?
Defensive or insulting? I'm not sure if this is your way of saying I struck a nerve.
Anyways, Zorn, this thread was finished sometime ago. Plus talking to you never goes anywhere. I'll leave your precious alone.
later
Been playing WoW on and off for about 5 years now and I have to say that this change introduce does very little to effect the experience new players will still have to face after they cross over from the newbie zone. Level 5 mobs and above outside the starting area still aggro the same way, introductions to beginner instances have not been pushed up. The only thing that IS different is that new players are/will be faced with an additional 20 to 25 levels of content before they reach 80/85.
Back when we started there were only 60 levels, not many dungeons, raids or quest than there are now. So it's easy for me to accept pushing back the lesson of "mob aggro" for one zone. And that's what it all boils down to, one zone as a aggro free area and it's not even instanced like I've seen newbie zones in other MMOs, that for the most part only serve to further limit what a new player experiences by keeping them from wandering too far too soon:
All of these and more MMOs had specific newbie areas that were impossible to wander out from unless you completed the introductory quest/tutorial. So again I see no beef to how this change means anything other than making a more user-friendly starting zone. Because of the new DF tool, more players will be exposed to group content and instance runs. Which will in fact lead to better trained players who may have 100+ dungeon runs under their belt as opposed only a few with the old system.
But I don't see anyone making threads to discuss this issue.........strange.
Is it to much for people to read the entire thread before responding to see where we are at this point?
Do I have to add color and underlines to make my point as well?
This is not about this one change, it's a question of it will grow into a much larger problem.
But they are both changes that underline their entire point:
To introduce ways to make it easier for players to transition into playing the game and having fun. Changing the aggro style of a few newbie zone mobs is not harking the beginnings of a new era of easy gaming 101 or is it a sign of future things to come. Many of you "vets" need to take some things at face value. No conspiracy theories or crystal balls needed.
As quick as you can say that the introduction of lesser aggro in newbie zones can lead to dumb downed gameplay in other areas, I or someone else can point out that the introduction of DF can lead to more competent or skillful players and better game mechanics for the future.
It's all relevant in your world of theories. I just find it funny that some players would rather spend time trying to validate something so trivial in the overall scheme of things to give it enough thought to actually think it will lead to something of such huge magnitude as creating a more incompetent playerbase. But never think of the more recent additions to the game, like DF, that trump the warning signs they cook up.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
wow. I think your problem, greed, is you can't handle any kind of challenge to your comments. I read the whole thread and all I saw was Zorn responding quite intelligently to your comments. I didn't see him bellittle you or insult you but you insulted him in every post where you responded to him. If you can't handle a counter repsonse to your own threads, don't make them.
Okay, this seems too be so pointless "OMG, THAT LEVEL 5MOB IS NON AGGRO IM GOING TO BE A NOOB FOR THE REST OF THE GAME" seems to be the argument here and I realy dont understand it just because the starting zone is non aggro does not mean the whole game is easy now... Shall we go back to the days when if you dident pay 500g per book for AoE buffs or you had to single target? Blizzard is trying to keep a portion of the fun but cut out alot of the crap. It may sounds cool to have to grind this Book but when you are actualy doing it 7 runs later... still single target buffing you get sick of it quick also you said dailies are not optional i disagree im a level 80 Druid gearscore 5639 and i have 7kg on my toon ... I have never done dailies for gold and i LOL at you saying they are required only noobs who cant do profession spam dailies! I have played 3 Chars I played a Hunter 1-60 Warlock 1-70 and druid 1-80 and to be honest once you hit level 30 or soo the game fills just as agrivating each quest pisses you off because a random murlock spawns and kills you and life goes on with nerd rage and doom for everyone. one more thing ... World of Warcrafts base is incompatent MMOs dont usualy take alot of skill Everquest was the same crap as WoW and soo it has been written in stone the next big mmo will be the same!
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
Been playing WoW on and off for about 5 years now and I have to say that this change introduce does very little to effect the experience new players will still have to face after they cross over from the newbie zone. Level 5 mobs and above outside the starting area still aggro the same way, introductions to beginner instances have not been pushed up. The only thing that IS different is that new players are/will be faced with an additional 20 to 25 levels of content before they reach 80/85.
Back when we started there were only 60 levels, not many dungeons, raids or quest than there are now. So it's easy for me to accept pushing back the lesson of "mob aggro" for one zone. And that's what it all boils down to, one zone as a aggro free area and it's not even instanced like I've seen newbie zones in other MMOs, that for the most part only serve to further limit what a new player experiences by keeping them from wandering too far too soon:
All of these and more MMOs had specific newbie areas that were impossible to wander out from unless you completed the introductory quest/tutorial. So again I see no beef to how this change means anything other than making a more user-friendly starting zone. Because of the new DF tool, more players will be exposed to group content and instance runs. Which will in fact lead to better trained players who may have 100+ dungeon runs under their belt as opposed only a few with the old system.
But I don't see anyone making threads to discuss this issue.........strange.
Is it to much for people to read the entire thread before responding to see where we are at this point?
Do I have to add color and underlines to make my point as well?
This is not about this one change, it's a question of it will grow into a much larger problem.
But they are both changes that underline their entire point:
To introduce ways to make it easier for players to transition into playing the game and having fun. Changing the aggro style of a few newbie zone mobs is not harking the beginnings of a new era of easy gaming 101 or is it a sign of future things to come. Many of you "vets" need to take some things at face value. No conspiracy theories or crystal balls needed.
As quick as you can say that the introduction of lesser aggro in newbie zones can lead to dumb downed gameplay in other areas, I or someone else can point out that the introduction of DF can lead to more competent or skillful players and better game mechanics for the future.
It's all relevant in your world of theories. I just find it funny that some players would rather spend time trying to validate something so trivial in the overall scheme of things to give it enough thought to actually think it will lead to something of such huge magnitude as creating a more incompetent playerbase. But never think of the more recent additions to the game, like DF, that trump the warning signs they cook up.
We have come to that conclusion. I don't agree with the change, but I'll live with it. I'll keep an eye out for upcoming changes and go from there.
Really, I insulted him? Mind pointing those out? Zorn takes everything as an insult, maybe you're the same way.
Lol....I never implied any of that. It was a question (once again I'll make this apparent for those unwilling to read) of if this will eventually grow. Blizzard bends to the will of the complainers. Let's see how far they can bend shall we?
By the way, my eyes are bleeding now, thanks.
WTH lvl 80 to run thru the whole game because non-agg mobs are too hard.
working as intended.
Generation P
Lol....I never implied any of that. It was a question (once again I'll make this apparent for those unwilling to read) of if this will eventually grow. Blizzard bends to the will of the complainers. Let's see how far they can bend shall we?
By the way, my eyes are bleeding now, thanks.
I dont know if you know this hun but complainers rule the world... You get enough people to complain about anything and it will get changed Blizzard is no exception this rule. You our complaining right now lol and if enough people complained (Which with such a minor thing no-1 will) they would probly change it back.
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
Lol....I never implied any of that. It was a question (once again I'll make this apparent for those unwilling to read) of if this will eventually grow. Blizzard bends to the will of the complainers. Let's see how far they can bend shall we?
By the way, my eyes are bleeding now, thanks.
I dont know if you know this hun but complainers rule the world... You get enough people to complain about anything and it will get changed Blizzard is no exception this rule. You our complaining right now lol and if enough people complained (Which with such a minor thing no-1 will) they would probly change it back.
The only way to beat a complainer is to complain louder.
Anyways, I'm not exactly complaining. I'm not asking for this to be changed back. I'm really not asking for anything, I'm just curious as to if Blizzard would go far enough to changing the world because a handful can't overcome the challenge. And as I said before, you can group and make things easier on yourself. I'm mostly a solo player from start to finish, but I do group for things I may have a difficult time with and I do make the best of it.
Fair enough! see now thats constructive. although i disagree i dont think Blizz will do it but if they do i will probly unsubscribe...
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
It is a trend right now that MMOs have made most of the content easier the last few years, Wow isn't the only game with this. But trends usually turns around sooner or later, if this happens before Wow becomes obsolete is anybodies guess but EQ isn't as hard as it once was either.
Still, I think Blizzard took it a bit too far but that is my opinion, if you think the difficulty is just right to be fun to you than that is fine too.
I am more worried about people like someone earlier who said that "the old stuff is boring anyways, only the endgame is fun so skipping past the rest fast is the right way".
All parts of a MMO should be fun to play, Blizzard themselves stated that at launch. Making old stuff obsolete and boring is a trend that EQ started that most MMOs follows after and I don't like the trend. Hopefully have Blizzard thought about that for Cataclysm and are revamping the game to balance it and make it fun again, and hopefully will other MMOs follow that.
I personally think that MMOs should have 20 levels and never raise the cap. zillion of levels are useless and raising the levelcap is what destroys the old content and makes most of the game boring (and this is not only about Wow, everyone is doing it).
It is a trend right now that MMOs have made most of the content easier the last few years, Wow isn't the only game with this. But trends usually turns around sooner or later, if this happens before Wow becomes obsolete is anybodies guess but EQ isn't as hard as it once was either.
Still, I think Blizzard took it a bit too far but that is my opinion, if you think the difficulty is just right to be fun to you than that is fine too.
I am more worried about people like someone earlier who said that "the old stuff is boring anyways, only the endgame is fun so skipping past the rest fast is the right way".
All parts of a MMO should be fun to play, Blizzard themselves stated that at launch. Making old stuff obsolete and boring is a trend that EQ started that most MMOs follows after and I don't like the trend. Hopefully have Blizzard thought about that for Cataclysm and are revamping the game to balance it and make it fun again, and hopefully will other MMOs follow that.
I personally think that MMOs should have 20 levels and never raise the cap. zillion of levels are useless and raising the levelcap is what destroys the old content and makes most of the game boring (and this is not only about Wow, everyone is doing it).
True enough, but WoW has not changed as much as people think. If you want to complain why not complain about somthing legimate like BoAs now that is extreme easy for new toons... I just dont like complaining about somthing so well stupid.
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
Really, I insulted him? Mind pointing those out? Zorn takes everything as an insult, maybe you're the same way.
Why don't you just go back and look at the your responses to his posts. If you don't think they're insulting him in any way, you're probably not a pleasant person to be around in RL.