To add to this, I had an inactive account that I just noticed had a free 5-day activation to come back. So sure, just like any game there are a number of ways to pick apart the numbers, but I think, PCU record or not, the game has demonstrated consistent growth. In my opinion this is impressive in the current market and more important for the long term.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
54,181 concurrent users online? 54,181 concurrent clients online. Fixt I would guess the sum of true users was somewhere around 20,000.
Not to mention how is it a seem less world when you go through load screens at every jump gate. Don't get me started but this game is one big collection of public instances same as AOC but just not as obvious to most people.
Some people collect stamps and some people enjoy collections of public instances the same way the original everquest was a collection of public instances.
54,181 concurrent users online? 54,181 concurrent clients online. Fixt I would guess the sum of true users was somewhere around 20,000.
Not to mention how is it a seem less world when you go through load screens at every jump gate. Don't get me started but this game is one big collection of public instances same as AOC but just not as obvious to most people.
Your guess is probably wrong, but for the purposes of the discussion, what is important is how many connections there are active to the server, not how many people actually play EVE.
Discussing the difference between zones and instances would be off topic and I've already received one warning in this thread so we won't go there. Good news though, we've beat that subject to death on these forums, feel free to go look it up.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not to mention how is it a seem less world when you go through load screens at every jump gate. Don't get me started but this game is one big collection of public instances same as AOC but just not as obvious to most people.
EVE is not instanced at all. They use zones that support up to 1000+ players.
I've played various MMOs over the last decade. I've never played SL. But I do think that EVE Online is the first MMO that really puts the M in Mmo. You can be in a system with 50 pilots and not see a one. And you can undock from a Jita station and see hundreds in your face. And where else can you have the 500+ per side turkey shoots. Grats to CCP for slow and steady growth.
Where else can you suffer such massive lag death than in Eve-Online. Well done CCP!
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
It would interesting to see their numbers for the month of February, when STO releases. Not that I think it's going to be an incredible game or that there will be lots of crossover interest, but I bet they'll feel the effect nonetheless. Even more so if JG:E ever releases and is worth a damn.
Well, there's always a dip whenever a major new title opens, EVE players frequently play more than one MMORPG because the game's design (like real time skill training) makes it convenient to do so.
If / when the ambulation project finally launches (and assuming it doesn't suck) that's when I thing we'll see a big uptick in EVE subs.
But I agree, JGE is more likely to draw players away from EVE, even in temporarily. STO just doesn't seem to be going in the right direction.
The only game I could see pulling people away from Eve is JGE. But rumor on the street is that JGE may not see the light of day do to some unfixable bug issues and design flaws. But thats just a rumor and hasn't been confirmed yet.
I think the STO cross over will be very minimal if any at all. STO is a completely different game from EVE. The two are not even remotely similar in any way other then they are space games. From the economy, market, pvp, gameplay type its all completely different from each other. STO will be the next PoTBS. Because thats really what the game is just PoTBS in space with StarTrek graphics. Everyone will be able to see and notice that once the open beta starts on the 19th.. Well its not really open since you have to find a key from file planet or preorder the game or get lucky and get a key on one of the gaming sites.
I've played various MMOs over the last decade. I've never played SL. But I do think that EVE Online is the first MMO that really puts the M in Mmo. You can be in a system with 50 pilots and not see a one. And you can undock from a Jita station and see hundreds in your face. And where else can you have the 500+ per side turkey shoots. Grats to CCP for slow and steady growth.
Where else can you suffer such massive lag death than in Eve-Online. Well done CCP!
What game do you play that has never faced lag issues on certain stress circunstances?
54,181 concurrent users online? 54,181 concurrent clients online. Fixt I would guess the sum of true users was somewhere around 20,000.
Not to mention how is it a seem less world when you go through load screens at every jump gate. Don't get me started but this game is one big collection of public instances same as AOC but just not as obvious to most people.
EVE said 54,181 concurrent users online, not 54,181 concurrent UNIQUE users online. We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'. CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time.
Anyway, if Mir, MapleStory, Perfect World and many other mmorpg could say they had 50-120 mil players why couldn't CCP say they have 54,181 concurrent users online? It is all about advertisement.
EVE said 54,181 concurrent users online, not 54,181 concurrent UNIQUE users online. We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'.
Ccp doesn't sell isk, they sell gametime. Player A buy gametime from ccp and turn that gametime into an ingame object. Player B then pay isk to player A for that object and applies the time to his account. No new isk are introduced into the game.
CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time.
15-20% is standard peak concurreny for most mmorpgs on the market. A bit less for free to play games.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
EVE said 54,181 concurrent users online, not 54,181 concurrent UNIQUE users online. We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'.
Ccp doesn't sell isk, they sell gametime. Player A buy gametime from ccp and turn that gametime into an ingame object. Player B then pay isk to player A for that object and applies the time to his account. No new isk are introduced into the game.
CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time.
15-20% is standard peak concurreny for most mmorpgs on the market. A bit less for free to play games.
In any mmorpg when a player bought in game gold from a gold farmer there was no new gold introduced into the game. Same case in EVE only that CCP operate their own RMT. Whether there was new gold or ISK introduced into the games was not the point of this discussion. When a player bought a 1 month time card to sell for ISK he created another sub. It is very common for players to spend 1000s of ISK in EVE. Let’s say if I needed to get a good ship to join a good company I might buy 1500 ISK of game time - that is 100 subs already.
Now, let’s look at some numbers on the total players to concurrent player online ration. WoW has 11.6 mil players. According to your 15%-20% “standard” Wow would have 1.74 to 2.32 mil players online. Do you realistically see that many??? Let’s look at Runescape’s numbers. They have 8+ mil players but normally you see about 150-170k players online at the peak and that’s about 2%, again not your 15%-20% “standard”. You can also kind of tell the numbers from Anarchy Online thanks to their helpbots. Typically you see 10k or less players online on both Rubi-Ka 1 and Rubi-Ka 2. So by your 15%-20% “standard” ratio AO would have only 50-65k total players. The stories are pretty much the same with a lot of mmorpg such as EQ, SWG, AoC, GW and many many more. Do you really think almost everybody else has only 50k players? It would help in this discussion if you could provide the numbers leading to your 15-20% “standard” ratio.
Besides, EVE is not pure P2P because of its cash shop (direct RMT selling) and f2p subscription program (reinvestment of ISK into game time). EVE has become more or less like DDO nowadays or even close to some f2p mmorpg, but this is not the main point of this discussion.
Besides, EVE is not pure P2P because of its cash shop (direct RMT selling) and f2p subscription program (reinvestment of ISK into game time). EVE has become more or less like DDO nowadays or even close to some f2p mmorpg, but this is not the main point of this discussion.
How is it F2P? At no point is your subscription not paid for with real money. The only distinction is whether you paid the money or whether the person who sold you the PLEX paid for your sub. Either way, CCP still gets subscription money. F2P, to me, would indicate that there is a potential for you to play without CCP seeing any income from your account and that is not the case with EvE.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Besides, EVE is not pure P2P because of its cash shop (direct RMT selling) and f2p subscription program (reinvestment of ISK into game time). EVE has become more or less like DDO nowadays or even close to some f2p mmorpg, but this is not the main point of this discussion.
How is it F2P? At no point is your subscription not paid for with real money. The only distinction is whether you paid the money or whether the person who sold you the PLEX paid for your sub. Either way, CCP still gets subscription money. F2P, to me, would indicate that there is a potential for you to play without CCP seeing any income from your account and that is not the case with EvE.
It is f2p from the perspectives of the players and no matter whether you look at it from the angles of CCP or the players many subs are generated by RMT and not unique.
It is f2p from the perspectives of the players and no matter whether you look at it from the angles of CCP or the players many subs are generated by RMT and not unique.
That makes no sense. This is essentially analogous to someone getting you a game time card as a gift. You didn't pay for the game time, but the person giving it to you did. So, how is it different form any other P2P MMO that offers time cards? The fact you gave up some ISK for the time card that was purchased with real money? That's a far cry from F2P.
I don't really understand your comment about "not unique" though. Is this just a reference to people having alt accounts? If so, there are plenty of threads on the topic. I don't think you'll get much argument as to that fact alts are popular in EvE though the numbers will vary wildly based on who you ask. Or you could just look at the numbers CCP provided, but that's just crazy talk eh? Speculation is much more fun.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It is f2p from the perspectives of the players and no matter whether you look at it from the angles of CCP or the players many subs are generated by RMT and not unique.
That makes no sense. This is essentially analogous to someone getting you a game time card as a gift. You didn't pay for the game time, but the person giving it to you did. So, how is it different form any other P2P MMO that offers time cards? The fact you gave up some ISK for the time card that was purchased with real money? That's a far cry from F2P.
I don't really understand your comment about "not unique" though. Is this just a reference to people having alt accounts? If so, there are plenty of threads on the topic. I don't think you'll get much argument as to that fact alts are popular in EvE though the numbers will vary wildly based on who you ask. Or you could just look at the numbers CCP provided, but that's just crazy talk eh? Speculation is much more fun.
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free.
Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises double plunger salute to CCP!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Here's something I didn't realize, just how fast the number of concurrent users online has grown in the past 6 months.
From a press release on August 1st of 2009.
“Just this past week we broke our concurrent user record with 45,186 people flying unbound in the same game world at the same time—a huge percentage of our quarter of a million current subscribers and a true testament to EVE in our sixth year of operation,” said EVE Online Senior Producer Torfi Frans Olafsson."
So now they're up to over 54181 K in less than 6 months? That's like a 16.6% jump which is somewhat phenomenal, especially considering the game is in its 6th year and continues to break new records.
Whether or not its due to an influx of new individual subscribers, or existing subscribers buying alt accounts (I own 3 myself) or that some people are paying CCP for GTC's that are used to pay for these accounts its still means that CCP's revenue keeps growing at a steady and amazing rate.
And while they state 1/4 million subscribers, I suspect thats rounding since in May of 2009 they announced surpasing 300K subscribers. (not users). Wonder what the sub numbers are today? Guess we'll find out soon since CCP is one of the few companies willing to share their subscription numbers with us today. (of course, since they are always going up, makes sense they would share them)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It is f2p from the perspectives of the players and no matter whether you look at it from the angles of CCP or the players many subs are generated by RMT and not unique.
That makes no sense. This is essentially analogous to someone getting you a game time card as a gift. You didn't pay for the game time, but the person giving it to you did. So, how is it different form any other P2P MMO that offers time cards? The fact you gave up some ISK for the time card that was purchased with real money? That's a far cry from F2P.
I don't really understand your comment about "not unique" though. Is this just a reference to people having alt accounts? If so, there are plenty of threads on the topic. I don't think you'll get much argument as to that fact alts are popular in EvE though the numbers will vary wildly based on who you ask. Or you could just look at the numbers CCP provided, but that's just crazy talk eh? Speculation is much more fun.
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free.
Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Why not? Are you saying people don't have multiple accounts in other games or log into them at the same time? I have 3 EVE accounts right now, and I log in on average 2 of them at any one time. In the past I had 5 DAOC accounts and would typically run 3-4 at any one time. Same with any other game, will always be multi boxers and people with more than one account, EVE might have a bit higher percentage, but that doesn't really take away from their concurrent user record.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Here's something I didn't realize, just how fast the number of concurrent users online has grown in the past 6 months. From a press release on August 1st of 2009. “Just this past week we broke our concurrent user record with 45,186 people flying unbound in the same game world at the same time—a huge percentage of our quarter of a million current subscribers and a true testament to EVE in our sixth year of operation,” said EVE Online Senior Producer Torfi Frans Olafsson." www.eveonline.com/pressreleases/default.asp So now they're up to over 54181 K in less than 6 months? That's like a 16.6% jump which is somewhat phenomenal, especially considering the game is in its 6th year and continues to break new records. Whether or not its due to an influx of new individual subscribers, or existing subscribers buying alt accounts (I own 3 myself) or that some people are paying CCP for GTC's that are used to pay for these accounts its still means that CCP's revenue keeps growing at a steady and amazing rate. And while they state 1/4 million subscribers, I suspect thats rounding since in May of 2009 they announced surpasing 300K subscribers. (not users). Wonder what the sub numbers are today? Guess we'll find out soon since CCP is one of the few companies willing to share their subscription numbers with us today. (of course, since they are always going up, makes sense they would share them)
If you read their brief posts on the EVE forum you should know CCP said the increase of subs were due to the entering of RETAILS. They didn't specify how much was the increase due to RETAILS and how many of these RETAILS (time card) were from unique players.
Please note unlike other users, I didn't even speculate how many UNIQUE subs and concurrent online players EVE have. Nor did I make partial or impartial comments on EVE's numbers. I just stated FACTS regarding the (unconfirmed) numbers EVE made known to the PUBLIC. Your interpretation/guss is as good as, but not better than, those who look at them from a different angle.
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free. Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free. Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret. Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
Fair enough. Silly me comparing your comment that EvE was F2P against implementation in actual F2P games.
I also can't compare EvE to an FPS game. I can't compare to an american made car (or any car for that matter). I mean, the list of things I can't compare to is pretty extensive. I can compare it to WoW, LoTRO, Darkfall, or just about any other P2P MMO that frequents the front page of this site since I can, in fact, have multiple accounts and run multiple clients for all of them.
That's cool though, I see what you are trying to say even if I disagree with it. I'll leave you to it.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Originally posted by NinjaNerf Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP
This is what you said and I responded to because it's a lie.
Now, lets look at some numbers on the total players to concurrent player online ration. WoW has 11.6 mil players. According to your 15%-20% standard Wow would have 1.74 to 2.32 mil players online. Do you realistically see that many??? Lets look at Runescapes numbers. They have 8+ mil players but normally you see about 150-170k players online at the peak and thats about 2%, again not your 15%-20% standard. You can also kind of tell the numbers from Anarchy Online thanks to their helpbots. Typically you see 10k or less players online on both Rubi-Ka 1 and Rubi-Ka 2. So by your 15%-20% standard ratio AO would have only 50-65k total players. The stories are pretty much the same with a lot of mmorpg such as EQ, SWG, AoC, GW and many many more. Do you really think almost everybody else has only 50k players? It would help in this discussion if you could provide the numbers leading to your 15-20% standard ratio.
We are not talking avg concurrency here but peak (ie around sunday evening for most games). If you normally see 10k players on AO then the peak is probably closer to 12-13k or more. Now that's very good for a game which peaked out it's subscription at 60k shortly after release and had a last quoted number (from 2007 before going f2p) around 12k.
Here is an almost 2 years old article (I would assume higher numers now) that says WoW has over 1 mil player peak concurrency: http://www.ogeworld.com/document_general_info.html?products_id=2299 Some articles says this is for WoW china alone some for all of wow, hard to tell which is correct. This would give a concurrency of either 10 or 20% depending on which is true.
Runescape is a F2P game and I said those have lower numbers mostly because the quoted player numbers are WAY higher than actual players but also because more players are playing the casually, but even saying that the numbers you spout are wrong: http://gigaom.com/2008/07/14/runescape-moves-to-come-out-of-the-shadows/ 1.5 years ago they had 250k peak concurrency and 6 mil players for 4%. Earlier reported concurrency and player numbers for runescape give the same around 4%.
SWG had over 15% peak concurrency back in its heydays when Sony still published subscription numbers.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Comments
I'm glad a non-brand name game has made it to this level.
Not to troll up the post but I guess a FREE limited edition ship will spike numbers...
http://links.mail.eveonline.com/servlet/MailView?ms=MzQ1MjczOTES1&r=NDAyMTE0MDI4NQS2&j=NjM2MjMxOTkS1&mt=1&rt=0
... as would a free mount/gear in other games. just good marketing.
To add to this, I had an inactive account that I just noticed had a free 5-day activation to come back. So sure, just like any game there are a number of ways to pick apart the numbers, but I think, PCU record or not, the game has demonstrated consistent growth. In my opinion this is impressive in the current market and more important for the long term.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Some people collect stamps and some people enjoy collections of public instances the same way the original everquest was a collection of public instances.
Your guess is probably wrong, but for the purposes of the discussion, what is important is how many connections there are active to the server, not how many people actually play EVE.
Discussing the difference between zones and instances would be off topic and I've already received one warning in this thread so we won't go there. Good news though, we've beat that subject to death on these forums, feel free to go look it up.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE is not instanced at all. They use zones that support up to 1000+ players.
Where else can you suffer such massive lag death than in Eve-Online. Well done CCP!
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Well, there's always a dip whenever a major new title opens, EVE players frequently play more than one MMORPG because the game's design (like real time skill training) makes it convenient to do so.
If / when the ambulation project finally launches (and assuming it doesn't suck) that's when I thing we'll see a big uptick in EVE subs.
But I agree, JGE is more likely to draw players away from EVE, even in temporarily. STO just doesn't seem to be going in the right direction.
The only game I could see pulling people away from Eve is JGE. But rumor on the street is that JGE may not see the light of day do to some unfixable bug issues and design flaws. But thats just a rumor and hasn't been confirmed yet.
I think the STO cross over will be very minimal if any at all. STO is a completely different game from EVE. The two are not even remotely similar in any way other then they are space games. From the economy, market, pvp, gameplay type its all completely different from each other. STO will be the next PoTBS. Because thats really what the game is just PoTBS in space with StarTrek graphics. Everyone will be able to see and notice that once the open beta starts on the 19th.. Well its not really open since you have to find a key from file planet or preorder the game or get lucky and get a key on one of the gaming sites.
Where else can you suffer such massive lag death than in Eve-Online. Well done CCP!
What game do you play that has never faced lag issues on certain stress circunstances?
EVE said 54,181 concurrent users online, not 54,181 concurrent UNIQUE users online. We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'. CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time.
Anyway, if Mir, MapleStory, Perfect World and many other mmorpg could say they had 50-120 mil players why couldn't CCP say they have 54,181 concurrent users online? It is all about advertisement.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
In any mmorpg when a player bought in game gold from a gold farmer there was no new gold introduced into the game. Same case in EVE only that CCP operate their own RMT. Whether there was new gold or ISK introduced into the games was not the point of this discussion. When a player bought a 1 month time card to sell for ISK he created another sub. It is very common for players to spend 1000s of ISK in EVE. Let’s say if I needed to get a good ship to join a good company I might buy 1500 ISK of game time - that is 100 subs already.
Now, let’s look at some numbers on the total players to concurrent player online ration. WoW has 11.6 mil players. According to your 15%-20% “standard” Wow would have 1.74 to 2.32 mil players online. Do you realistically see that many??? Let’s look at Runescape’s numbers. They have 8+ mil players but normally you see about 150-170k players online at the peak and that’s about 2%, again not your 15%-20% “standard”. You can also kind of tell the numbers from Anarchy Online thanks to their helpbots. Typically you see 10k or less players online on both Rubi-Ka 1 and Rubi-Ka 2. So by your 15%-20% “standard” ratio AO would have only 50-65k total players. The stories are pretty much the same with a lot of mmorpg such as EQ, SWG, AoC, GW and many many more. Do you really think almost everybody else has only 50k players? It would help in this discussion if you could provide the numbers leading to your 15-20% “standard” ratio.
Besides, EVE is not pure P2P because of its cash shop (direct RMT selling) and f2p subscription program (reinvestment of ISK into game time). EVE has become more or less like DDO nowadays or even close to some f2p mmorpg, but this is not the main point of this discussion.
How is it F2P? At no point is your subscription not paid for with real money. The only distinction is whether you paid the money or whether the person who sold you the PLEX paid for your sub. Either way, CCP still gets subscription money. F2P, to me, would indicate that there is a potential for you to play without CCP seeing any income from your account and that is not the case with EvE.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
How is it F2P? At no point is your subscription not paid for with real money. The only distinction is whether you paid the money or whether the person who sold you the PLEX paid for your sub. Either way, CCP still gets subscription money. F2P, to me, would indicate that there is a potential for you to play without CCP seeing any income from your account and that is not the case with EvE.
It is f2p from the perspectives of the players and no matter whether you look at it from the angles of CCP or the players many subs are generated by RMT and not unique.
That makes no sense. This is essentially analogous to someone getting you a game time card as a gift. You didn't pay for the game time, but the person giving it to you did. So, how is it different form any other P2P MMO that offers time cards? The fact you gave up some ISK for the time card that was purchased with real money? That's a far cry from F2P.
I don't really understand your comment about "not unique" though. Is this just a reference to people having alt accounts? If so, there are plenty of threads on the topic. I don't think you'll get much argument as to that fact alts are popular in EvE though the numbers will vary wildly based on who you ask. Or you could just look at the numbers CCP provided, but that's just crazy talk eh? Speculation is much more fun.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
That makes no sense. This is essentially analogous to someone getting you a game time card as a gift. You didn't pay for the game time, but the person giving it to you did. So, how is it different form any other P2P MMO that offers time cards? The fact you gave up some ISK for the time card that was purchased with real money? That's a far cry from F2P.
I don't really understand your comment about "not unique" though. Is this just a reference to people having alt accounts? If so, there are plenty of threads on the topic. I don't think you'll get much argument as to that fact alts are popular in EvE though the numbers will vary wildly based on who you ask. Or you could just look at the numbers CCP provided, but that's just crazy talk eh? Speculation is much more fun.
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free.
Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Gratz CCp!
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises double plunger salute to CCP!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Here's something I didn't realize, just how fast the number of concurrent users online has grown in the past 6 months.
From a press release on August 1st of 2009.
“Just this past week we broke our concurrent user record with 45,186 people flying unbound in the same game world at the same time—a huge percentage of our quarter of a million current subscribers and a true testament to EVE in our sixth year of operation,” said EVE Online Senior Producer Torfi Frans Olafsson."
www.eveonline.com/pressreleases/default.asp
So now they're up to over 54181 K in less than 6 months? That's like a 16.6% jump which is somewhat phenomenal, especially considering the game is in its 6th year and continues to break new records.
Whether or not its due to an influx of new individual subscribers, or existing subscribers buying alt accounts (I own 3 myself) or that some people are paying CCP for GTC's that are used to pay for these accounts its still means that CCP's revenue keeps growing at a steady and amazing rate.
And while they state 1/4 million subscribers, I suspect thats rounding since in May of 2009 they announced surpasing 300K subscribers. (not users). Wonder what the sub numbers are today? Guess we'll find out soon since CCP is one of the few companies willing to share their subscription numbers with us today. (of course, since they are always going up, makes sense they would share them)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That makes no sense. This is essentially analogous to someone getting you a game time card as a gift. You didn't pay for the game time, but the person giving it to you did. So, how is it different form any other P2P MMO that offers time cards? The fact you gave up some ISK for the time card that was purchased with real money? That's a far cry from F2P.
I don't really understand your comment about "not unique" though. Is this just a reference to people having alt accounts? If so, there are plenty of threads on the topic. I don't think you'll get much argument as to that fact alts are popular in EvE though the numbers will vary wildly based on who you ask. Or you could just look at the numbers CCP provided, but that's just crazy talk eh? Speculation is much more fun.
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free.
Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Why not? Are you saying people don't have multiple accounts in other games or log into them at the same time? I have 3 EVE accounts right now, and I log in on average 2 of them at any one time. In the past I had 5 DAOC accounts and would typically run 3-4 at any one time. Same with any other game, will always be multi boxers and people with more than one account, EVE might have a bit higher percentage, but that doesn't really take away from their concurrent user record.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you read their brief posts on the EVE forum you should know CCP said the increase of subs were due to the entering of RETAILS. They didn't specify how much was the increase due to RETAILS and how many of these RETAILS (time card) were from unique players.
Please note unlike other users, I didn't even speculate how many UNIQUE subs and concurrent online players EVE have. Nor did I make partial or impartial comments on EVE's numbers. I just stated FACTS regarding the (unconfirmed) numbers EVE made known to the PUBLIC. Your interpretation/guss is as good as, but not better than, those who look at them from a different angle.
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Anyone who thinks STO will steal EVE's crowd, has no clue what EVE is.
STO ALL PVP WILL BE INSTANCED.
No more needs to be stated if you know EVE.
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
Fair enough. Silly me comparing your comment that EvE was F2P against implementation in actual F2P games.
I also can't compare EvE to an FPS game. I can't compare to an american made car (or any car for that matter). I mean, the list of things I can't compare to is pretty extensive. I can compare it to WoW, LoTRO, Darkfall, or just about any other P2P MMO that frequents the front page of this site since I can, in fact, have multiple accounts and run multiple clients for all of them.
That's cool though, I see what you are trying to say even if I disagree with it. I'll leave you to it.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Here is an almost 2 years old article (I would assume higher numers now) that says WoW has over 1 mil player peak concurrency:
http://www.ogeworld.com/document_general_info.html?products_id=2299
Some articles says this is for WoW china alone some for all of wow, hard to tell which is correct. This would give a concurrency of either 10 or 20% depending on which is true.
Runescape is a F2P game and I said those have lower numbers mostly because the quoted player numbers are WAY higher than actual players but also because more players are playing the casually, but even saying that the numbers you spout are wrong:
http://gigaom.com/2008/07/14/runescape-moves-to-come-out-of-the-shadows/
1.5 years ago they had 250k peak concurrency and 6 mil players for 4%. Earlier reported concurrency and player numbers for runescape give the same around 4%.
SWG had over 15% peak concurrency back in its heydays when Sony still published subscription numbers.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."