The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free. Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
While I will agree that EVE lets you stay online inactively (until the daily downtime) I can't think of any game that prevents me from running multiple accounts or clients and I always have been able to use more than one computer to run multiple clients.
Of course, I haven't played all MMO's so you might be right, I just haven't run into that with most western P2P MMO's.
I think EVE's concurrent subscriber figures are quite comparable to most games, and are probably laughable when compared to a game like WOW which probably has millions of people online at any one time. (granted, not on one server, but still)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP
This is what you said and I responded to because it's a lie.
Now, let’s look at some numbers on the total players to concurrent player online ration. WoW has 11.6 mil players. According to your 15%-20% “standard” Wow would have 1.74 to 2.32 mil players online. Do you realistically see that many??? Let’s look at Runescape’s numbers. They have 8+ mil players but normally you see about 150-170k players online at the peak and that’s about 2%, again not your 15%-20% “standard”. You can also kind of tell the numbers from Anarchy Online thanks to their helpbots. Typically you see 10k or less players online on both Rubi-Ka 1 and Rubi-Ka 2. So by your 15%-20% “standard” ratio AO would have only 50-65k total players. The stories are pretty much the same with a lot of mmorpg such as EQ, SWG, AoC, GW and many many more. Do you really think almost everybody else has only 50k players? It would help in this discussion if you could provide the numbers leading to your 15-20% “standard” ratio.
[/b][/quote]
Here is an almost 2 years old article (I would assume higher numers now) that says WoW has over 1 mil player peak concurrency:
Some articles says this is for WoW china alone some for all of wow, hard to tell which is correct. This would give a concurrency of either 10 or 20% depending on which is true.
Runescape is a F2P game and I said those have lower numbers mostly because the quoted player numbers are WAY higher than actual players but also because more players are playing the casually, but even saying that the numbers you spout are wrong:
1.5 years ago they had 250k peak concurrency and 6 mil players for 4%. Earlier reported concurrency and player numbers for runescape give the same around 4%.
50-60k active players for AO seems about right.
SWG had over 15% concurrency back in its heydays when Sony still published subscription numbers.
For the first part I already explained my point is you can sell time card you buy with real money for ISK so it is RMT. Please don't take my words out of context.
Please re-read and double check the posts your referenced. Those numbers were one time numbers, not data on a daily basis.
WoW doesn't list how many players they have online but Runescape does. You can go to Runecape's site and check for yourself. They don't have 250k concurrent players after their anti-RMT house cleaning. Somebody may still record over 200k concurrent user once in a while but on a daily basis it is more like 150k.
We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'. Players do not buy ISK from CCP. They buy game time. CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? Making up data to prove your point doesn't help your case at all. 54181 (which has been beat, as the new record reached Jan 3rd is 54,446) is a rare occurrence, hence why people are calling it a "new record" and not a "same as yesterday." No CCPer or player has ever claimed that there are 50k people logged in most of the time. In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time. Source? Anyway, if Mir, MapleStory, Perfect World and many other mmorpg could say they had 50-120 mil players why couldn't CCP say they have 54,181 concurrent users online? It is all about advertisement. The irony of claiming others fabricate data and then supporting your points with misinformation and false data is something I find amusing.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
And while they state 1/4 million subscribers, I suspect thats rounding since in May of 2009 they announced surpasing 300K subscribers. (not users). Wonder what the sub numbers are today? Guess we'll find out soon since CCP is one of the few companies willing to share their subscription numbers with us today. (of course, since they are always going up, makes sense they would share them)
Find someone that went to Fanfest last year. CCP usually gives out the numbers at Fanfest.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The difference is when you receive a gift from an mmorpg that doesn't allow RMT you don't pay or spend any in game efforts for it. If you pay for it then it is under the table and not. Again, I said EVE can be f2p from the player's perspective. If they spend enough efforts in the game they can get ISK to exchange for game time, hence they can play for free. Alts are definitely NOT UNIQUE players. Since you already said how many alts can vary then it is obviously you can't compare the 51k concurrent apples of EVE to the ??? concurrent oranges from other mmorpg. Likewise you can't compare the 120 mil players from Legends of Mir to the 11.6 mil from WoW.
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
While I will agree that EVE lets you stay online inactively (until the daily downtime) I can't think of any game that prevents me from running multiple accounts or clients and I always have been able to use more than one computer to run multiple clients.
Of course, I haven't played all MMO's so you might be right, I just haven't run into that with most western P2P MMO's.
I think EVE's concurrent subscriber figures are quite comparable to most games, and are probably laughable when compared to a game like WOW which probably has millions of people online at any one time. (granted, not on one server, but still)
In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account, or run multiclients. Some games like Runescape don't allow you to freely transfer money/items between accounts for one player to have multiple accounts.
Anybody who play WoW can tell you they don't have 2 million concurrent players online.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'. Players do not buy ISK from CCP. They buy game time. I Already answered on my last post my point was RMT by way of paying real money to buy sellable time cards for ISK. CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? Making up data to prove your point doesn't help your case at all. 54181 (which has been beat, as the new record reached Jan 3rd is 54,446) is a rare occurrence, hence why people are calling it a "new record" and not a "same as yesterday." No CCPer or player has ever claimed that there are 50k people logged in most of the time. One more time again. I didn't say CCP made up the data or not. I just stated the nature of the number. I stated the FACT. In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time. Source? Told you the case with Runescape already. I have a file with some research data. If I can find it I will post. Anyway, if Mir, MapleStory, Perfect World and many other mmorpg could say they had 50-120 mil players why couldn't CCP say they have 54,181 concurrent users online? It is all about advertisement. The irony of claiming others fabricate data and then supporting your points with misinformation and false data is something I find amusing. I never said the data from Mir, MS or PWO were not misinformation or fasle (in fact I think they were and expressed my opinions on them a while ago in a general discussion thread). Since nobody could tell how these numbers compared to WoW and other mmorpg, we can't compare EVE 's number to many others. For the record, I didn't use the data from Mir et al to support my points. I used them to contrast the EVE case.
Congrats to CCP and the players. Eve is a great game and I enjoyed my year or so at launch ( I did not have the time to keep playing at the level I wanted). No one thought this Elite clone single shard server made outside of the US stood a chance and I think it still is the most innovative example of a new generation MMO there is and has one of the best, most friendly and loyal communities in online gaming.
Originally posted by NinjaNerf For the first part I already explained my point is you can sell time card you buy with real money for ISK so it is RMT. Please don't take my words out of context. Please re-read and double check the posts your referenced. Those numbers were one time numbers, not data on a daily basis. WoW doesn't list how many players they have online but Runescape does. You can go to Runecape's site and check for yourself. They don't have 250k concurrent players after their anti-RMT house cleaning. Somebody may still record over 200k concurrent user once in a while but on a daily basis it is more like 150k.
Reread (or perhaps re write considering how inaccurate it is) your own and my post yourself. You said that you can buy isk directly from CCP and that is the only thing about RMT I responded to because it's wrong. Unlike some other people I don't make up things, I respond to factual claims with real facts.
As for concurrency you want to compare apples with oranges now, EVEs all time peak with Runescapes every day numbers? 54k is not something you get every day in EVE, when I look at the login screen right now it says 39k, that's just 13%. So comparing Runescapes all time high with EVEs all time high is the correct way to do it.
As for world of warcraft this site: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/temp/activity.html Says the peak monthly concurrency for US and EU servers atm are around 800k. Wow subscribers in US+EU equal around 5-6 mil (of the total 12m subscribers a little more than half are chinese). That gives between 13-16% monthly peak concurrency with an all-time peak mayby as high as 20%.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
We know a large number of EVE players have many many accounts because of the real money trading shop run by CCP instead of chinese gold farmers. Players are allow to buy EVE ISK directly from CCP and use in game ISK to pay for subscription, hence the inflated number of 'players'. Players do not buy ISK from CCP. They buy game time. I Already answered on my last post my point was RMT by way of paying real money to buy sellable time cards for ISK. So the goal here is that we need to discern what you mean, since it contradicts what you explicitly say? You're making it difficult to have a direct conversation.
CCP said they have 300k subscribers. 54181/300000 is roughly 18%. Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time? Making up data to prove your point doesn't help your case at all. 54181 (which has been beat, as the new record reached Jan 3rd is 54,446) is a rare occurrence, hence why people are calling it a "new record" and not a "same as yesterday." No CCPer or player has ever claimed that there are 50k people logged in most of the time. One more time again. I didn't say CCP made up the data or not. I just stated the nature of the number. I stated the FACT. And you have just proven that you do not know the difference between fact and fiction. Your question was "Do you really think about 1 out of 5 EVE players are so loyal they log in most of the time?" No CCPer or player has ever claimed that there are 50k people logged in most of the time. Do you not realize that you are making things up to reinforce your position? That's your quote from THIS THREAD. It is what you call FACT, which everyone here can clearly see is not.
In most of the mmorpg it is common for them to have like 1 or 2% of their total players online concurrently at the same time. Source? Told you the case with Runescape already. I have a file with some research data. If I can find it I will post. Runescape is not "most of the MMOPRPGs" as that was your claim. Again, it seems you are not aware how much you have fabricated to back your position. If this is a subconscious effort on your part, then you have bigger issues than your tinfoilhattery about MMOs.
Anyway, if Mir, MapleStory, Perfect World and many other mmorpg could say they had 50-120 mil players why couldn't CCP say they have 54,181 concurrent users online? It is all about advertisement. The irony of claiming others fabricate data and then supporting your points with misinformation and false data is something I find amusing. I never said the data from Mir, MS or PWO were not misinformation or fasle (in fact I think they were and expressed my opinions on them a while ago in a general discussion thread). Since nobody could tell how these numbers compared to WoW and other mmorpg, we can't compare EVE 's number to many others. For the record, I didn't use the data from Mir et al to support my points. I used them to contrast the EVE case. Sure we can compare EVE's numbers to WOW's. WOW's shards don't support 50k concurrent connections at once, therefore they can't possibly beat that record. Do more people play WOW across all their servers? Without a doubt! CCP never claimed WOW didn't.
Cheers, and best of luck with that condition of yours.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
runescape
=========
Rule 8 prohibits multiple account logging-in and interaction between RuneScape accounts, including Drop Trading. It is one of the Rules of Conduct. In short, players who own multiple accounts cannot transfer items between their accounts in any way, including logging into two accounts at the same time (on one computer or two computers) and trading between them. This is a very difficult rule to be able to report, as there is no true way to know whether or not the player is using multiple accounts. If a player violates Rule 8
AfterWorld
==========
13. CAN I CREATE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS?
No. No. And No. And you don't want to do it. Because first, AW is a RCE, where you have to create your physical cash account, which is simply impossible to do twice, and second, we do not support multiple identity as AW in some sense is a simulation of a real world, where social aspect is most important and multiple identity would simply break social connections. If in any way you are not satisfied with your current identity and would like to change it or create a new one please post a message to support@afterworld.ru, we will try to offer the most convenient and appropriate solution for your case. We will not perform a special database scan to monitor and recover the multiple account existence until Release. However, if occasionally such accounts will be found AW Team retains the right to suspend them until a new duly completed account creation form will be received from their holder
FFXI
====
FFXI ACCOUNTS BANNED?
We would like to report the termination today of multiple accounts held by players involved in the usage of third-party tools or cheats, or engaged in RMT (Real Money Trading) activities.
Based on the results of our investigation, around 5760 PlayOnline accounts were terminated while around 420 accounts were temporarily suspended.
Additionally, we have increased the number of mass bannings against certain PlayOnline violations in order to prevent illegal acts.
The termination of these accounts has led to the removal of approximately 2.5 billion gil from circulation.
I also remember they said banned FFXI players will also be banned from FFXIV
Tibia
=====
Rule 3e) Multi-Clienting
Playing on more than one account at the same time.
Playing on more than one account at the same time:
Since there is an error message informing you that a Tibia client is already running when trying to start a second copy, you can obviously see that it is illegal and not intended for you to play on several accounts or clients at the same time. Thus, do not control more than one account simultaneously and do not use a manipulated Tibia client, which poses an additional security risk to your computer and your account. Note that it does not matter whether you use multiple computers or the same computer to be online with more than one account, both are illegal and will lead to an account punishment
EarthlandRealms
===============
Illegal:
Attempting to Hack/Packet the server or Abusing security holes (if any).
ONLY ONE ACCOUNT per person. Having more than one account because you have more than one computer or because a friend registered an account and gave it to you is cheating.
Just to name a few I remember. I think Anarchy Online allows 2 concurrent client running.
Originally posted by LynxJSA AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..." Can you list some of them, Ninja?
Actually PotBS does not have any restriction. There used to be a restriction that you where not allowed to have 2 accounts with chars from different nations on the same server but even that rule has been removed.
Seems Runescape is one of few that disallow it. But it could be true for other F2P games as well I guess. F2P games are very different than P2P games in so many aspects that comparing rules and numbers on them make little sense.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
runescape
=========
The one example you keep citing.
AfterWorld
==========
Currently in alpha. They explain on their site that their system has no way to separate the real world cash accounts as the reason for no multiple accounts currently.
FFXI
====
Would help you a lot to read your google results before blindly cnp-ing them, Ninja FFXI allows multiple accounts.
Tibia
=====
Tibia allows ownership of multiple accounts. Their one rule is that you are not using them concurrently.
EarthlandRealms
===============
Browser-based game. None of them allow multiple accounts because of their common resource-dependent or 4X design.
I think Anarchy Online allows 2 concurrent client running.
That's.... still multiple accounts.
Runescape is not "a lot of MMORPGs."
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
Actually PotBS does not have any restriction. There used to be a restriction that you where not allowed to have 2 accounts with chars from different nations on the same server but even that rule has been removed.
Seems Runescape is one of few that disallow it. But it could be true for other F2P games as well I guess. F2P games are very different than P2P games in so many aspects that comparing rules and numbers on them make little sense.
Cool beans. Thanks for the correction on that.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Comments
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
While I will agree that EVE lets you stay online inactively (until the daily downtime) I can't think of any game that prevents me from running multiple accounts or clients and I always have been able to use more than one computer to run multiple clients.
Of course, I haven't played all MMO's so you might be right, I just haven't run into that with most western P2P MMO's.
I think EVE's concurrent subscriber figures are quite comparable to most games, and are probably laughable when compared to a game like WOW which probably has millions of people online at any one time. (granted, not on one server, but still)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now, let’s look at some numbers on the total players to concurrent player online ration. WoW has 11.6 mil players. According to your 15%-20% “standard” Wow would have 1.74 to 2.32 mil players online. Do you realistically see that many??? Let’s look at Runescape’s numbers. They have 8+ mil players but normally you see about 150-170k players online at the peak and that’s about 2%, again not your 15%-20% “standard”. You can also kind of tell the numbers from Anarchy Online thanks to their helpbots. Typically you see 10k or less players online on both Rubi-Ka 1 and Rubi-Ka 2. So by your 15%-20% “standard” ratio AO would have only 50-65k total players. The stories are pretty much the same with a lot of mmorpg such as EQ, SWG, AoC, GW and many many more. Do you really think almost everybody else has only 50k players? It would help in this discussion if you could provide the numbers leading to your 15-20% “standard” ratio.
[/b][/quote]
Here is an almost 2 years old article (I would assume higher numers now) that says WoW has over 1 mil player peak concurrency:
http://www.ogeworld.com/document_general_info.html?products_id=2299
Some articles says this is for WoW china alone some for all of wow, hard to tell which is correct. This would give a concurrency of either 10 or 20% depending on which is true.
Runescape is a F2P game and I said those have lower numbers mostly because the quoted player numbers are WAY higher than actual players but also because more players are playing the casually, but even saying that the numbers you spout are wrong:
http://gigaom.com/2008/07/14/runescape-moves-to-come-out-of-the-shadows/
1.5 years ago they had 250k peak concurrency and 6 mil players for 4%. Earlier reported concurrency and player numbers for runescape give the same around 4%.
50-60k active players for AO seems about right.
SWG had over 15% concurrency back in its heydays when Sony still published subscription numbers.
For the first part I already explained my point is you can sell time card you buy with real money for ISK so it is RMT. Please don't take my words out of context.
Please re-read and double check the posts your referenced. Those numbers were one time numbers, not data on a daily basis.
WoW doesn't list how many players they have online but Runescape does. You can go to Runecape's site and check for yourself. They don't have 250k concurrent players after their anti-RMT house cleaning. Somebody may still record over 200k concurrent user once in a while but on a daily basis it is more like 150k.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Find someone that went to Fanfest last year. CCP usually gives out the numbers at Fanfest.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Just because a player can exchange effort for game time someone else bought does not make the game F2P since revenue is still generated. It'd be pretty misleading to try to characterize it as such, but I am fine disagreeing on this point as I think we have both said our piece on it.
As far as unique players, I believe this was a Concurrent User record and not a Current Unique Subscriber record. That said, the term "multiboxing" was not invented by CCP or it's customers. Since all customers are bound by the same potential to run multiple clients, regardless of the game, how is this not comparing apples to apples? I know, when I played SWG, I had numerous friends who had multiple accounts. This site had an article some time ago about a guy who rand 30+ WoW clients. Why are EvE's alternate account subject to different rules? Just because EvE provides a method for trading paid-for game time in game?
One more time, I am not arguing how F2P EVE is comparing to other F2P mmorpg. I just stated the FACTS. It is up to the readers to interpret.
Regarding concurrent user comparison you definitely can't compare EVE with mmorpg that doesn't allow one user to have multiple accounts, run multiclients, or stay online inactively without being timed out and such and there are a lot of them out there.
While I will agree that EVE lets you stay online inactively (until the daily downtime) I can't think of any game that prevents me from running multiple accounts or clients and I always have been able to use more than one computer to run multiple clients.
Of course, I haven't played all MMO's so you might be right, I just haven't run into that with most western P2P MMO's.
I think EVE's concurrent subscriber figures are quite comparable to most games, and are probably laughable when compared to a game like WOW which probably has millions of people online at any one time. (granted, not on one server, but still)
In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account, or run multiclients. Some games like Runescape don't allow you to freely transfer money/items between accounts for one player to have multiple accounts.
Anybody who play WoW can tell you they don't have 2 million concurrent players online.
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Congrats to CCP and the players. Eve is a great game and I enjoyed my year or so at launch ( I did not have the time to keep playing at the level I wanted). No one thought this Elite clone single shard server made outside of the US stood a chance and I think it still is the most innovative example of a new generation MMO there is and has one of the best, most friendly and loyal communities in online gaming.
To err is human....to play is divine
As for concurrency you want to compare apples with oranges now, EVEs all time peak with Runescapes every day numbers?
54k is not something you get every day in EVE, when I look at the login screen right now it says 39k, that's just 13%.
So comparing Runescapes all time high with EVEs all time high is the correct way to do it.
As for world of warcraft this site: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/temp/activity.html
Says the peak monthly concurrency for US and EU servers atm are around 800k. Wow subscribers in US+EU equal around 5-6 mil (of the total 12m subscribers a little more than half are chinese).
That gives between 13-16% monthly peak concurrency with an all-time peak mayby as high as 20%.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
runescape
=========
Rule 8 prohibits multiple account logging-in and interaction between RuneScape accounts, including Drop Trading. It is one of the Rules of Conduct. In short, players who own multiple accounts cannot transfer items between their accounts in any way, including logging into two accounts at the same time (on one computer or two computers) and trading between them. This is a very difficult rule to be able to report, as there is no true way to know whether or not the player is using multiple accounts. If a player violates Rule 8
AfterWorld
==========
13. CAN I CREATE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS?
No. No. And No. And you don't want to do it. Because first, AW is a RCE, where you have to create your physical cash account, which is simply impossible to do twice, and second, we do not support multiple identity as AW in some sense is a simulation of a real world, where social aspect is most important and multiple identity would simply break social connections. If in any way you are not satisfied with your current identity and would like to change it or create a new one please post a message to support@afterworld.ru, we will try to offer the most convenient and appropriate solution for your case. We will not perform a special database scan to monitor and recover the multiple account existence until Release. However, if occasionally such accounts will be found AW Team retains the right to suspend them until a new duly completed account creation form will be received from their holder
FFXI
====
FFXI ACCOUNTS BANNED?
We would like to report the termination today of multiple accounts held by players involved in the usage of third-party tools or cheats, or engaged in RMT (Real Money Trading) activities.
Based on the results of our investigation, around 5760 PlayOnline accounts were terminated while around 420 accounts were temporarily suspended.
Additionally, we have increased the number of mass bannings against certain PlayOnline violations in order to prevent illegal acts.
The termination of these accounts has led to the removal of approximately 2.5 billion gil from circulation.
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news14006.shtml
I also remember they said banned FFXI players will also be banned from FFXIV
Tibia
=====
Rule 3e) Multi-Clienting
Playing on more than one account at the same time.
Playing on more than one account at the same time:
Since there is an error message informing you that a Tibia client is already running when trying to start a second copy, you can obviously see that it is illegal and not intended for you to play on several accounts or clients at the same time. Thus, do not control more than one account simultaneously and do not use a manipulated Tibia client, which poses an additional security risk to your computer and your account. Note that it does not matter whether you use multiple computers or the same computer to be online with more than one account, both are illegal and will lead to an account punishment
EarthlandRealms
===============
Illegal:
Attempting to Hack/Packet the server or Abusing security holes (if any).
ONLY ONE ACCOUNT per person. Having more than one account because you have more than one computer or because a friend registered an account and gave it to you is cheating.
Just to name a few I remember. I think Anarchy Online allows 2 concurrent client running.
Seems Runescape is one of few that disallow it. But it could be true for other F2P games as well I guess. F2P games are very different than P2P games in so many aspects that comparing rules and numbers on them make little sense.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
AFAIK, PotBS is the only non-browser MMO that has a restriction on the number of accounts that you can have.
"In a lot of mmorpg it is AGAINST THE EULA for a player to have or operate more than one account..."
Can you list some of them, Ninja?
runescape
=========
The one example you keep citing.
AfterWorld
==========
Currently in alpha. They explain on their site that their system has no way to separate the real world cash accounts as the reason for no multiple accounts currently.
FFXI
====
Would help you a lot to read your google results before blindly cnp-ing them, Ninja
FFXI allows multiple accounts.
Tibia
=====
Tibia allows ownership of multiple accounts. Their one rule is that you are not using them concurrently.
EarthlandRealms
===============
Browser-based game. None of them allow multiple accounts because of their common resource-dependent or 4X design.
I think Anarchy Online allows 2 concurrent client running.
That's.... still multiple accounts.
Runescape is not "a lot of MMORPGs."
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Seems Runescape is one of few that disallow it. But it could be true for other F2P games as well I guess. F2P games are very different than P2P games in so many aspects that comparing rules and numbers on them make little sense.
Cool beans. Thanks for the correction on that.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?