When people look to spend their money on those, most of them will go to the most convenient location or the place with the widest selection. The price is often low priority for low dollar entertainment.
Maybe you don't compare prices. I do. Why do you think Amazon got so popular? It was cheaper than local bookstores. People download music via torrents of questionable quality rather than buying the CD with a known good quality. I wait for movies to come onto DVD then rent them rather than pay theater prices.
Yet, why do you think there are still bookstores that are quite popular, even though Amazon is much less expensive? Because there are other criteria some people use i choosing a book, so they go into the store.
When something is a strict commodity, then price is the primary factor and people will shop at the lowest price, unless of course they want it instantly, then retail stores are still the way to go.
Your torrent example isn't good because you are comparing free vs something paid for, and free usually wins out since the quality differences are usually negligible.
You wait for movies to come onto DVD, I went to 3 movies at the theatre this weekend because my wife enjoys going out and some movies really benefit from being seen on the big screen. (i.e. Avatar or Sherlock Holmes)
People play MMO's for reasons other than price. It could be advertising, the fact their friends play it, or the game gets favorable reviews, or its in a niche they favor and in every one of those decisions, price is about 5th or 6th on the list.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When taking into account that you most certainly can't play more than ONE MMORPG at the same time, then it is a VERY CHEAP entertainment at 15 dollars/month , isn't it ?
A MMORPG is designed to last, hopefully for atleast a few months, but for some several years..
And when paying for the initial retail box price you will get a FREE MONTH, so If you quit before the first month you did NOT put out more money on this than any other singleplayer game !!!!
I'm not opposed to people disagreeing with me, but it seems people on this website will find a reason to disagree with anyone starting a thread, no matter what was said, or who said it. People just want to argue and belittle others.- Well of course they do, what was your purpose in starting the thread if not to discuss and debate the OP with the folks here. Welcome to forum PVP.
Put another way, picture yourself selling an item on the auction house. Say the item you're about to sell is similar to others selling for 5g, and there are 20 of them on the AH. Do you sell yours for 5g, or would you sell it for just under that? Great example. In Aion a very common phenomenon on the auction house is that many items hit a "floor" that the players are willing to accept and you will see a half dozen or more listings at the same price by different players, none who will go below it, as they realize there's no value in the -1 strategy. Same thing in effect with MMO's, sellers of smaller games need as much revenue as possible and doubt people will subscribe to their game over another for the sake of 2 bucks a month. Another example: You're shopping for a new computer. One is $1,200, and the other is $1,100. Both are roughly the same specs. Which one would you buy? This is very common sense stuff for me, yet everyone seems to completely miss the point. In this example you fail to take into account the effects of brand name, advertising, overall style and even if the specs are 100% identical, (they never are, in computers and certainly not in MMO's) and I most certainly would pay 100 bucks more for a Toshiba laptop vs an HP because I have a perception of higher quality with the former mfg and in the terms of a 1200 computer, 100 bucks isn't worth the difference.
Another issue with the "floor" is that if anyone does list the item for less, then someone buys it and resells it at the higher price. In the real world, this happens mostly on antiques and other rare commodities (or the commodities exchange). Prices set by the buyer is a myth though. If a manufacturer can't sell an item for a high enough price, he cuts production or eliminates the product completely. Cost of entry is usually high enough to limit competition to those looking to make a substantial profit.
When people look to spend their money on those, most of them will go to the most convenient location or the place with the widest selection. The price is often low priority for low dollar entertainment.
Maybe you don't compare prices. I do. Why do you think Amazon got so popular? It was cheaper than local bookstores. People download music via torrents of questionable quality rather than buying the CD with a known good quality. I wait for movies to come onto DVD then rent them rather than pay theater prices.
In each of those examples, convenience and wide selection were the reason for their popularity.
Torrenting - You're talking about loading a program that gives you access to tens of thousands of songs for free (to some of us, it's theft) without leaving your chair... and trying to present that as a purchasing decision.
Amazon - The success of Amazon.com is attributed to both its wide selection and the way it made convenient internet shopping accessible to the net consumer.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The bottom line people, and I hope it sinks in this time, is that all games aren't created equal, yet they are equally the same price per month.
And we've said that this is because of public perception. Just because YOU don't look at price points doesn't mean that others don't.
Did y9ou not read my post about the cello teacher? About perception of value?
Yes, and I was later going to comment on how your post was the only logical reason for a company to keep their subscription rates the same, even when their CEO sees that their game isn't as popular as they planned on. I'm not opposed to people disagreeing with me, but it seems people on this website will find a reason to disagree with anyone starting a thread, no matter what was said, or who said it. People just want to argue and belittle others.
Your point is true, but isn't the whole truth. I'm not saying I have the whole truth, but as a CEO, with a new game in an overly saturated market, I'd price my game just below market standard. Put another way, picture yourself selling an item on the auction house. Say the item you're about to sell is similar to others selling for 5g, and there are 20 of them on the AH. Do you sell yours for 5g, or would you sell it for just under that? Another example: You're shopping for a new computer. One is $1,200, and the other is $1,100. Both are roughly the same specs. Which one would you buy? This is very common sense stuff for me, yet everyone seems to completely miss the point.
I suppose it's true that there is a lot of argument for the sake of argument but I think there are only two ways to go with any argument on this forum. One, someone presents enough evidence that is overwhelming in its support of that person's position or Two, the realization that the argument is of personal taste and there can never be a winner in that one. Which is why I'm surprised that so many people still try to argue personal taste.
As far as our Auction House example, that is a perfect example of having the same item and just moving the price to find a good selling point or undercutting another individual so you can get a sale.
But a "Sword of One Thousand Truths" for 5 million will sell after a "Sword of One Thousand Truths" for 1 million because they are exactly the same quality and are exactly the same thing. No one is going to look at their virtual AH and say "hmmmm this one is for 5 million and this is for 1 million but I bet there is something wrong with the 1 million item, it might even be used so I better just stick with the 5 million item".
Because obviously unless the game makes some sort of differentiation between virtual items, we know they are exactly the same.
As for games, they are going to be different as you have stated many times. And in truth it "might" be possible to say that game x is in no way worth the same as game y therefore it should be priced lower. But part of that is personal taste.
Take Vanguard. It has issues true but it also has its strengths. However, pound for pound there is more game and more polish in a game like WoW as it has been robustly developed. Vanguard has just been in and out of the shop a lot.
Yet they both go for about the same amount of money for the sub. Well, one could say that WoW should have a higher sub because more goes into it and Vanguard should only be 10.00 per month. Yet there are many people who would look at the wow experience and say "ugh" and be far more attracted to the Vanguard experience. despite it having some creakiness and not being as robustly developed.
So to them Vanguard will still be worth its 15.00 per month.
And again, in order to project some sort of legitimacy the game is priced competitively with other AAA mmo's. For any game to charge less the game would have to differentiate itself in such a way that it seemed "ok" for it to be priced less as players might not take it as seriously. So, a kids game could be less money because that just "seems' to be the type of game that one would pay less for. But to run with all the other legitimate mmo's one needs to be priced in a similar fashion.
Here's a somewhat unrelated but related example. Many companies, especially in today's global world would be able to operate anywhere. One could feasibly have a technology company in Arkansas and offer enough incentive for employees to move there. The company can develop there and get what they need.
However, to be taken seriously as a technology company, many companies move or open offices in areas that are known to be home to other similar companies. one could say "why pay the costs of an expensive area when one can be in any area where the cost of living is lower". But still, tech companies will oftentimes be located in areas that are just filled with similar companies in the same industry. Bio-tech companie as well. Why? Because it lends an air of legitimacy.
My thought, especially after seeing that you are an accounting major, is that your mind is very straightforward, logical and quantizes everything. You look at the immediate and exacting facts and compare them in a similiar fashion. Your thoughts about things like Entertainment not being needed as a business expense lead me to believe that you look at everything super logically and cut out those things that don't seem to have a very solid and measurable value.
but if you ever get a job in a large company I believe you will always be at odds with the marketing and sales people. Because though they are all about the numbers (as their commissions spin off of the profit numbers as well as thier sales expectations) they are all about sending a bottle of wine to a valued customer or taking a group of people out ot dinner and a very good dinner or sending Gift Baskets to customers, etc. They wear the best clothes and they don't often follow the rules as they usually want to move faster than submitting the proper paperwork will allow.
They are all about the unquantifiable, they are about human relations and looking the part, and developing friendships in order to get the product in the door or get an audience with a ceo so that they can tell him what he wants to hear in order to get a sale.
So again, I see your point but I see it as being the labor of a mind that can more than readily add up all the columns and you come up with your answer but the ineffable concepts, those that just dont' always make sense, dont' really resonate with you in a way that you can appreciate in a meaningful way which is why this is such a hard topic to discuss in this forum.
This is not an insult and you shouldn't take it as one. But I see the same types of topics bandied about between my highly logical friends and my friends who live in a more emotional place.
As the husband of a my gf's ex-roomate said, he read a book that had all these unecessary words where it only needed 16 pages of formula to make its point.
The rest of us at the dinner table just smiled.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Maybe you don't compare prices. I do. Why do you think Amazon got so popular? It was cheaper than local bookstores. People download music via torrents of questionable quality rather than buying the CD with a known good quality. I wait for movies to come onto DVD then rent them rather than pay theater prices.
Yet, why do you think there are still bookstores that are quite popular, even though Amazon is much less expensive? Because there are other criteria some people use i choosing a book, so they go into the store.
When something is a strict commodity, then price is the primary factor and people will shop at the lowest price, unless of course they want it instantly, then retail stores are still the way to go.
Your torrent example isn't good because you are comparing free vs something paid for, and free usually wins out since the quality differences are usually negligible.
You wait for movies to come onto DVD, I went to 3 movies at the theatre this weekend because my wife enjoys going out and some movies really benefit from being seen on the big screen. (i.e. Avatar or Sherlock Holmes)
People play MMO's for reasons other than price. It could be advertising, the fact their friends play it, or the game gets favorable reviews, or its in a niche they favor and in every one of those decisions, price is about 5th or 6th on the list.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When taking into account that you most certainly can't play more than ONE MMORPG at the same time, then it is a VERY CHEAP entertainment at 15 dollars/month , isn't it ?
A MMORPG is designed to last, hopefully for atleast a few months, but for some several years..
And when paying for the initial retail box price you will get a FREE MONTH, so If you quit before the first month you did NOT put out more money on this than any other singleplayer game !!!!
Another issue with the "floor" is that if anyone does list the item for less, then someone buys it and resells it at the higher price. In the real world, this happens mostly on antiques and other rare commodities (or the commodities exchange). Prices set by the buyer is a myth though. If a manufacturer can't sell an item for a high enough price, he cuts production or eliminates the product completely. Cost of entry is usually high enough to limit competition to those looking to make a substantial profit.
Maybe you don't compare prices. I do. Why do you think Amazon got so popular? It was cheaper than local bookstores. People download music via torrents of questionable quality rather than buying the CD with a known good quality. I wait for movies to come onto DVD then rent them rather than pay theater prices.
In each of those examples, convenience and wide selection were the reason for their popularity.
Torrenting - You're talking about loading a program that gives you access to tens of thousands of songs for free (to some of us, it's theft) without leaving your chair... and trying to present that as a purchasing decision.
Amazon - The success of Amazon.com is attributed to both its wide selection and the way it made convenient internet shopping accessible to the net consumer.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And we've said that this is because of public perception. Just because YOU don't look at price points doesn't mean that others don't.
Did y9ou not read my post about the cello teacher? About perception of value?
Yes, and I was later going to comment on how your post was the only logical reason for a company to keep their subscription rates the same, even when their CEO sees that their game isn't as popular as they planned on. I'm not opposed to people disagreeing with me, but it seems people on this website will find a reason to disagree with anyone starting a thread, no matter what was said, or who said it. People just want to argue and belittle others.
Your point is true, but isn't the whole truth. I'm not saying I have the whole truth, but as a CEO, with a new game in an overly saturated market, I'd price my game just below market standard. Put another way, picture yourself selling an item on the auction house. Say the item you're about to sell is similar to others selling for 5g, and there are 20 of them on the AH. Do you sell yours for 5g, or would you sell it for just under that? Another example: You're shopping for a new computer. One is $1,200, and the other is $1,100. Both are roughly the same specs. Which one would you buy? This is very common sense stuff for me, yet everyone seems to completely miss the point.
I suppose it's true that there is a lot of argument for the sake of argument but I think there are only two ways to go with any argument on this forum. One, someone presents enough evidence that is overwhelming in its support of that person's position or Two, the realization that the argument is of personal taste and there can never be a winner in that one. Which is why I'm surprised that so many people still try to argue personal taste.
As far as our Auction House example, that is a perfect example of having the same item and just moving the price to find a good selling point or undercutting another individual so you can get a sale.
But a "Sword of One Thousand Truths" for 5 million will sell after a "Sword of One Thousand Truths" for 1 million because they are exactly the same quality and are exactly the same thing. No one is going to look at their virtual AH and say "hmmmm this one is for 5 million and this is for 1 million but I bet there is something wrong with the 1 million item, it might even be used so I better just stick with the 5 million item".
Because obviously unless the game makes some sort of differentiation between virtual items, we know they are exactly the same.
As for games, they are going to be different as you have stated many times. And in truth it "might" be possible to say that game x is in no way worth the same as game y therefore it should be priced lower. But part of that is personal taste.
Take Vanguard. It has issues true but it also has its strengths. However, pound for pound there is more game and more polish in a game like WoW as it has been robustly developed. Vanguard has just been in and out of the shop a lot.
Yet they both go for about the same amount of money for the sub. Well, one could say that WoW should have a higher sub because more goes into it and Vanguard should only be 10.00 per month. Yet there are many people who would look at the wow experience and say "ugh" and be far more attracted to the Vanguard experience. despite it having some creakiness and not being as robustly developed.
So to them Vanguard will still be worth its 15.00 per month.
And again, in order to project some sort of legitimacy the game is priced competitively with other AAA mmo's. For any game to charge less the game would have to differentiate itself in such a way that it seemed "ok" for it to be priced less as players might not take it as seriously. So, a kids game could be less money because that just "seems' to be the type of game that one would pay less for. But to run with all the other legitimate mmo's one needs to be priced in a similar fashion.
Here's a somewhat unrelated but related example. Many companies, especially in today's global world would be able to operate anywhere. One could feasibly have a technology company in Arkansas and offer enough incentive for employees to move there. The company can develop there and get what they need.
However, to be taken seriously as a technology company, many companies move or open offices in areas that are known to be home to other similar companies. one could say "why pay the costs of an expensive area when one can be in any area where the cost of living is lower". But still, tech companies will oftentimes be located in areas that are just filled with similar companies in the same industry. Bio-tech companie as well. Why? Because it lends an air of legitimacy.
My thought, especially after seeing that you are an accounting major, is that your mind is very straightforward, logical and quantizes everything. You look at the immediate and exacting facts and compare them in a similiar fashion. Your thoughts about things like Entertainment not being needed as a business expense lead me to believe that you look at everything super logically and cut out those things that don't seem to have a very solid and measurable value.
but if you ever get a job in a large company I believe you will always be at odds with the marketing and sales people. Because though they are all about the numbers (as their commissions spin off of the profit numbers as well as thier sales expectations) they are all about sending a bottle of wine to a valued customer or taking a group of people out ot dinner and a very good dinner or sending Gift Baskets to customers, etc. They wear the best clothes and they don't often follow the rules as they usually want to move faster than submitting the proper paperwork will allow.
They are all about the unquantifiable, they are about human relations and looking the part, and developing friendships in order to get the product in the door or get an audience with a ceo so that they can tell him what he wants to hear in order to get a sale.
So again, I see your point but I see it as being the labor of a mind that can more than readily add up all the columns and you come up with your answer but the ineffable concepts, those that just dont' always make sense, dont' really resonate with you in a way that you can appreciate in a meaningful way which is why this is such a hard topic to discuss in this forum.
This is not an insult and you shouldn't take it as one. But I see the same types of topics bandied about between my highly logical friends and my friends who live in a more emotional place.
As the husband of a my gf's ex-roomate said, he read a book that had all these unecessary words where it only needed 16 pages of formula to make its point.
The rest of us at the dinner table just smiled.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo