I personally like it, sure doesn't seem like a sandbox like eve, but its still decent. Lots of bugs? Of course, thats why its beta. Not to mention this isn't the full game. What you see is simply for testing purposes. I don't know why some people go into a beta expecting a full finished game. When I go into a beta I expect a half-assed buggy game. Devs want my feed back and bug reports to help them improve. Unfortunately what the devs get are a bunch of rage/quit retards who act like they've never been an MMO beta before. But I guess thats life, what can you do?
The inherent contradiction in this is that they want you to pre-order a life-time subscription to the game BEFORE you can actually play the game. What we have today is a beta test version of part of the game, not the real game as you point out. So without being able to play the actual game, they require you to buy the lifetime subscription now?!? The offer is only good until you get to play the actual game? Sounds fishy ....
You only get the new-car special deal if you don't test drive the car first. Odd.
I find that to be kinda weird myself. Why would anyone drop nearly 300 bucks on a lifetime sub for a game they haven't fully experienced yet? But I wouldn't be surprised if some people already did.
Exactly, I have no problem with people who have tried the game that get a lifetime sub. Maybe they have a friend whose going to play with them, or maybe they are just going to play casually, whatever the reason, they tried it so they should do what they want.
But I cant agree with people who throw that much money into a game they have never played before. I mean buying a game is one thing, thats 50 bucks, plus maybe an extra 15 for subscription. But once you get into the 100-200 dollar range, it starts to be very silly to just throw your money at something.
Ok, here is my take in a nutshell. This game is most like "Pirates of the Burning Seas" but with a Star Trek skin. If you are one of the few who like that style, you will probably like this.
I disagree. STO is most like POTBS:
01) Without boarding combat. If I could run-n-gun as a Klingon to a Feddie's bridge and BBBZZZTTT him to death, I would've suffered through anything else.
02) "Away Team" combat in POTBS showed more flexibility and scale. Albeit, not much there, but then there isn't much here either.
03) POTBS had a robust system for building my own ship and trading and land ownership. Yes, it was flawed from the beginning and that is why I canceled my preorder to POTBS.
04) POTBS had port battles and land ownership. You had a stake in the game and it could be "won" then reset. A WW 2 online system would've worked here if they'd have modeled the general war.
05) POTBS had greater tactical combat options at least in single player. The line of ships of the line was silly, but that's actually accurate. There will be standardized fleet battles in STO, but who is going to care?
So, to sum up: STO is most like POTBS-lite. In addition, the missions & town structures in POTBS were much more fun. I played EVERY mission in POTBS.
Oh oh. And POTBS had THREE factions, including pirate. Introduce the Orion pirates and let them raid ships / bases / planets in both sectors and let the Klingons and Feds stop them. Woohoo wouldn't that've been fun?
Anyway, STO is a disappointment and POTBS, flawed as it is, doesn't deserve to be brought down to STO's level.
And yes, POTBS had all of this at launch.
I have always said the same thing about POTBS, If they had just focused on getting ship combat right, and not added in Avatar combat, the game probably could have hit it big.
I think they lost alot of focus once they jumped ship (Lawls!), and started developing Avatar combat alongside Ship combat.
Now for a game like SWTOR I think if they went into development with both space and land developed at the same time they could make a great game. SWTOR is also coming out in 2011, which gives them a 4 year development cycle.
Look at STO development cycle, 2 years of development time, does anyone else see this as ridiculous?? I havent seen a Proffesionally developed MMO launch in under 2 years in a long time. If anything people can see the flaw in the game right there.
Think if they actually put 2 more years of development into this game, instead of trying to make a quick buck. It could be great. But I dont think anyone should pay them monthly for 2 years to release a game.
Had they made some sort of effort, and not rushed it out the door, I would say differently.
They developed 2 games (Champions Online) with the same engine in less than 2 years (an average MMO takes 4 years)
They cut their costs a lot and they will sell at least 500K copies which means they will make a profit even if no one renew the subscripttion (which is unlikely).
This is business, they will get good profits out of an average game, while the MMO players will get screwed as usual.............the story repeats itself.
Only Indie developers make decent MMORPG nowadays, get used to it.
How are the MMO players got screwed? You can simply avoid the game and not give Cryptic your money.
Ok, here is my take in a nutshell. This game is most like "Pirates of the Burning Seas" but with a Star Trek skin. If you are one of the few who like that style, you will probably like this.
I disagree. STO is most like POTBS:
01) Without boarding combat. If I could run-n-gun as a Klingon to a Feddie's bridge and BBBZZZTTT him to death, I would've suffered through anything else.
02) "Away Team" combat in POTBS showed more flexibility and scale. Albeit, not much there, but then there isn't much here either.
03) POTBS had a robust system for building my own ship and trading and land ownership. Yes, it was flawed from the beginning and that is why I canceled my preorder to POTBS.
04) POTBS had port battles and land ownership. You had a stake in the game and it could be "won" then reset. A WW 2 online system would've worked here if they'd have modeled the general war.
05) POTBS had greater tactical combat options at least in single player. The line of ships of the line was silly, but that's actually accurate. There will be standardized fleet battles in STO, but who is going to care?
So, to sum up: STO is most like POTBS-lite. In addition, the missions & town structures in POTBS were much more fun. I played EVERY mission in POTBS.
Oh oh. And POTBS had THREE factions, including pirate. Introduce the Orion pirates and let them raid ships / bases / planets in both sectors and let the Klingons and Feds stop them. Woohoo wouldn't that've been fun?
Anyway, STO is a disappointment and POTBS, flawed as it is, doesn't deserve to be brought down to STO's level.
And yes, POTBS had all of this at launch.
"most like"
Travel map w/ large representations not to scale of your avatar.
Instanced, small "port" or social area
Instanced encounters.
Really nice customization on both part.
Instanced "away teams" aka boarding parties or whatever you want to call those tiny land based things they had.
Even the ship combat is reminiscent. Swirl around your arcs banging your space bar and some specials.
I do like the bridge officers, too bad they only equate a normal MMO's "special ability". You don't really interact with them, they contain no story elements, no plot devices, no content, they are just extra "specials" for combat.
This game feels rushed on every level.
Defensive much? And yes, PotBS was a huge disappointment at launch if memory servers. It suffered many of the same issues STO has to include massive lag in small light populated areas, buggy graphic issues, claustrophobic areas and blah, blah, blah...
I am going to be very reserved on what I say being that I only got to play the open beta for a little while since the server filled up,I have not been able to get back in at all. They are addressing this by adding new servers,but sadly by the time they get everything going smoothly the game will be released.I agree with most of this post,I have been in several beta tests and this game without a question is releasing way way way too early.They would be wise to delay this game for 6 mos. to a year or more to release it.When it comes to Star Trek this game does a terrible job of making it feel like Star Trek.The noob start area is probably the single most important part of the game they should get right from the get go and imo have failed miserably in this area.The Bridge of the Kittomer is so huge it feels like a big empty room and I mean Big.It does not even resemble a bridge of any Starship ever in the Star Trek Franchise the Artists were definatly absent when they had everyone watch all of the Star Trek TV shows.As of right now I have decided not to buy this game unless I see a delay and some kind of announcement from Cryptic that they are listening to their testers as even the STO Forums are loaded with posts saying Delay the Launch.They need to throw out the huge rooms and redesign them and redo a hell of alot.If they go ahead and release this in its current state I have to agree this game will fail quickly.If I were you I would not buy a lifetime sub as I do think its a ploy to maximize profits while they can. If my Huge Wall of text Crits you for 9999999 then you should have not taken the time to read it LOL.
I enjoy the game....yes it is buggy and choppy and flawed. I expected this. What I never expected...even as a Star Trek Fan...and avid mmo player...is a complete duplicated Star Trek Universe incorporating the plethora of source materials that comes with a 30+ year franchise. Hopefully in time...updates and expansions can bring us a reasonable illusion. I say reasonable because I can't imagine a game containing a fully realized universe...one or 2 worlds perhaps....but a whole endless universe? not just space..but a Universe.
The ship combat really saves it for me. The shield management and maneuvering ..crew member skills acting as heals and buffs...and yes the awesome sound of photon and phaser fire. The "boxed grid" space does bother me...(doesn't EVE have a grid system too?..i seem to remember this from the month I played...long long ago.) I would rather you travel through a generic space screen and then plot your course on a dropdown/window that represents a bridge navigation console. Plot a course using starfleet database ....then warp away. I , by no means , want to wait 1- infinity hours in warp to reach my destination. I don't need that degree of realism to immerse me in a sci-fi game.
Separate players grouping as one crew would be great too...anyway...I have hopes that this will attain a decent approximation of a Star Trek Universe. Then again....many of my hopes in life lay...like the corpses of lemmings...dashed upon the bloodied rocks at the bottom of some cursed cliff side.
This is business, they will get good profits out of an average game, while the MMO players will get screwed as usual.............the story repeats itself. And this is purely the fault of the gamers. Companies will produce the quality product they can sell. If crap sells . . . Guess what?
Only Indie developers make decent MMORPG nowadays, get used to it. I'm not sure this is exactly true (nor how one defines "indie" these days), but again, gamers will get exactly what they show they are willing to pay for. Stop paying for crap and watch what happens.
Even Cryptic seems a litle ashamed at the state of this game. I've seen few real announcements about what they plan to do with this game in the future. Instead, there are vague, "Oh we'll be fixing that sometime" answers to players concerns. They just really seem like they're not really into it, just drawing a paycheck for as long as it lasts.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Even Cryptic seems a litle ashamed at the state of this game. I've seen few real announcements about what they plan to do with this game in the future. Instead, there are vague, "Oh we'll be fixing that sometime" answers to players concerns. They just really seem like they're not really into it, just drawing a paycheck for as long as it lasts.
The problem is, how do you know when to release? The business guys all want you to release NOW, and get money NOW. They don;t understand when you say it is not "fun" enough ... how can they judge that? You may say it needs another 6 months, and to them that means X million more dollars, and for what?
The problem is, how do you know when to release? The business guys all want you to release NOW, and get money NOW. They don;t understand when you say it is not "fun" enough ... how can they judge that? You may say it needs another 6 months, and to them that means X million more dollars, and for what?
In all fairness, though, game developers will play around forever and not care if they release anything if they're not given a definite date when the money runs out. World of Warcraft's Friends and Family beta might still be going on if Vivendi hadn't decided they needed to start getting some money made. Blizzard was perfectly content doing nothing but playing their own game. Who wouldn't like to get paid for making a game world and knocking around in it with your friends? I can still remember the closed beta testers moaning about how much they hated the thought of open beta and then release. They were damned belligerent towards people who were anxious to start paying money to play.
Atari is in desperate straits. They need this thing released. Unfortunately, the go-to team Infogrames bought for them is simply not up to the challenge,
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Question; what leve did the OP get to to form this conclusion?
Question; what leve did the OP get to to form this conclusion? How far can you go on an OB key? Judging a game on newbie area is pointless.
That is completely untrue, I enjoyed SWG, Everquest online adventures, and WOW from the moment I stepped foot in game.
The Newbie area is important, if they dont give you any fun right off the bat then why play? Why work for your fun?
And if your trying to imply that all MMO's start off the same, thats the developers fault then. They should be trying to innovate and make the tutorial levels intresting.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Question; what leve did the OP get to to form this conclusion? How far can you go on an OB key? Judging a game on newbie area is pointless.
That is completely untrue, I enjoyed SWG, Everquest online adventures, and WOW from the moment I stepped foot in game.
The Newbie area is important, if they dont give you any fun right off the bat then why play? Why work for your fun?
Well passing final judgement like the thread is saying based on not a coupel of skills and abilities and probably the same newbie T1 ship is pointless when you are talking longevity.
Im level 10 right now and about to get T2 ship soon, I have been throught the ups and downs and ups again. I could experience the things the OP states if I was level 3. I also am not prepared to seriously take a review from a level 3. Ironic.
We saw reviews of AoC with tortage singing praises and then look what happened after.
All I am saying is that reviewers take a set amount of time to pass judgement in the community it is widely regarded that a set amount of time should pass right. Hence the F.E review pull. There is no way with the limitations with beta that I can see someone putting the whole smackdown on the game. Sure there are the niggly things, but to write it 'total' off is short sighted.
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by lowendahl
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Judging a game on newbie area is pointless.
I'll take an AOC advocate's word for that
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
Exactly I did write that in reply.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat.
Point you make is very valid, at the same time there are not really any reviews out there of T4 / T5 ships and ground combat are there. No one knows and that is not enough to lay the law down on it and write it off.
It was not until a month or two after release with AoC and WAR people were seeing the major errors at endgame.
I've no idea where this guy has been and what he has done and I am suppose to take his word for it. There are no examples and it is a brand new poster.
I would call the first zone shoe box, but have you seen the galatic map?
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
Exactly I did write that in reply.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat.
Point you make is very valid, at the same time there are not really any reviews out there of T4 / T5 ships and ground combat are there. No one knows and that is not enough to lay the law down on it and write it off.
It was not until a month or two after release with AoC and WAR people were seeing the major errors at endgame.
Im really confused, didnt you just buy a lifetime sub? And now your comparing STO to AOC and WAR? Admitting you dont know if the end game will be good or bad? I mean its your money so I could care less, but I am curious, dont you think your spending your money a bit lavishly at that point?
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by lowendahl
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Judging a game on newbie area is pointless.
I'll take an AOC advocate's word for that
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
Exactly I did write that in reply.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat.
Point you make is very valid, at the same time there are not really any reviews out there of T4 / T5 ships and ground combat are there. No one knows and that is not enough to lay the law down on it and write it off.
It was not until a month or two after release with AoC and WAR people were seeing the major errors at endgame.
Im really confused, didnt you just buy a lifetime sub? And now your comparing STO to AOC and WAR? Admitting you dont know if the end game will be good or bad? I mean its your money so I could care less, but I am curious, dont you think your spending your money a bit lavishly at that point?
I brought my LT sub based on the fact that I am a fan of the IP. I have history with the games for the past 10 years online.
ST Armada cost me £15 in 2000, it lasted 8 years and I got my time out of it. Same with A2 and Starfleet Command / Bridge Officer etc. Lately there was ST Legacy. A $60 purchase that I played for maybe 5 months and then barely if at all now over the past year.
And now we have ST:O. tis' an easy decision for me to go lifetime. Based on all the additional things I have seen and witnessed and been apart of in game compared to all the other ST games I own I know that I will be playing this for a long time.
As for the lavishness, well I did buy a G19 keyboard couple weeks ago too, and I am looking at getting a couple fermi cards in a couple months time. Money not an issue really. But I would caution people about the lifetime sub and if they really want it. I would say my experiences and background are different to 20 others.
If I didn't have the background nor the money, I would do a 3 month sub and then make a decision.
I certainly would not make a decision pre release of the actual game, with a level restriction of 16 on the basis whether to buy or not. That is only 2 tiers of ship from 5. Same with ground dynamics.
Care to explain why? It's obvious a lot of people like the game but I haven't seen a single post as to why they like it other than "I'm having fun." Obviously, you like it if you're having fun but why? Show us the good side of STO (bonus points if you can do it without using the word "potential".' I'm just curious to see a positive review as in depth as the negative ones for a change.
People are often much more verbose when expressing displeasure than satisfaction. I do not have a long detailed hate/love list, besides, I am rarely that orderly.
I would say the biggest strength of Star Trek Online's game play is "open team play" You are not forced like many other games to organize a team prior and fill specific rolls and even do research and know the encounters prior to entering. The game does a decent job guiding people together and providing many opportunities to simply happen upon encounters. Star Trek Online provides that random spark of spontaneity that is missing in many online games.
As for the arguements about "true 3D" the entire Star Trek universe has never been true 3D, it has always emulated sea naval 2D in scope and manuevering.
Cryptic has a record of haveing great Toon customization with not so great gameplay. I hope this doesnt turn out the case for this game.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Shows Cpts Picard, Kirk, Archerm Janeway, and Sisko how to Dance!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I'll admit before I tired it I was in the op's court but now as I am running around as a lt. commander I find I have learned how to handle the clunky ground stuff and make myself look like a tac officer should. A stun grenade to star then hit them with a plasma grenade, targeting comp the biggest one and snipe him or her before switching to my aoe pistols and go to town. Outfiting your bridge crew properly is very important for ground and space combat the skills they have matter, most tac officer npc's come with max yeild and sweep. Buy the skills that fit your play style, get a sciene officer and an enginer that compliment your style as well and remember to give them gear. Space combat gets better with a better ship, and yes virginia there are non combat missions I've had several of them. No I wasn't talking to anyone named virginia I was just being cute.
The space battles remind me of freelancer, and frankly I loved that game so I like this one, is it perfect no but no game ever is at launch. Remember pvp has pretty much sucked in every game that ever had it excepting DAoC. RvR is a good an honest idea for later on, right now the problem lies with coding attacking other plays while in normal space, you have to code in a lot of stuff to make it where players can make a zone in the middle of nowhere for pvp. You also have to code in locks for it, or not, and if you put locks in you have to code letting groups still enter that zone.
As to some peoples there is to much combat in the game, I'm a fan of star trek but I tend to remember the combat stuff a lot more than the other bits. Yet they did pay attention to the lore, tribbles they sure are cute and they heal you too, but they will litterally eat everything in your inventory to make more of themselves. The briar patch is a fun level all be it a pain since one wrong shot and your dead due to igniting the patch.
I went into this game expecting to hate it and I saw a few good elements I liked in it, like lotro pvp is consentual. It looks beautiful, and the how your going to play options are vast and intricate. There are bugs, a few rather bad ones, yet they are there, but I have also seen some amazing tactics from players who have been playing together for a while, they almost looked like a flight wing in the manuevers they did. So yeah, it is at times boring, but if you don't do this as a solo game it can be pretty decent.
I agree with the OP and PotBS comparison. I hit level 16 with both Klingon and Federation so pretty much the tier 1 and tier 2 experience is the same. Since the OB is limited to level 16 right now I still can't judge the whole game....Since everything is the same between tier 1 and 2. Tier 3 might hold the key to making this game really enjoyable. I still plan on sticking with the Klingon side of things at launch.
I do "like" the game and plan to buy it but can I say the game is good? No I can't, for me right now it's just alright. My favorite part is the space combat, the only way it could be better is if it had full 3D space flight, everything else is sub par. It has good potential if they actually listen to the subscribers and our concerns.
For those that have never played some of the Star Trek games of the past...
Star Fleet Command 3...later installment in a series based on the old board game Star Fleet Battles and the first adaptation The Warp Factor made for old Apple II computers.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat. [...] I would call the first zone shoe box, but have you seen the galatic map?
My main beef with the UI is that there's way too much buttonmashing.
And I would like to see buttons for communication and target designation. I would like to be able to target multiple enemies so that when I have one enemy in front the rear phaser opens up on whatever target is in the rear arc. I would like to be able to designate targets in groups and accept targets from other players. And I would like the option to tie team chat messages to keys. -> Press F1 to send randomized greeting or a "Hi"
F2 to send out a targeting request and "Fire on my target" to team.
F3 to target previous targetting request
F4 to broadcast "MAYDAY! Shields down!"
F5 to send custom chat message "You guys suck! I'm logging off to play EVE!" or F6: "Thanks, guys, best PUG ever "
And of course I would like to have nav points/vector to target so that I actually know where to drop off the wounded Starfleet members I just picked up. Well, you get the idea... We have these things in other games so why not in STO?
And the chat system is just horrible with the way it's divided.
Other than that I find the UI ugly and it feels unfinished. It's the little things like the annoying pop-up windows in the middle of battle. The graphical errors on the side when loading into an instance. The instance chooser that shows up for a fraction of a second before loading into the instance. All those little things that scream unfinished/slapped together.
I've seen the galactic map, but it still feels small and confined. Even Privateer felt bigger, to say nothing of the now ancient Elite. It's not something I consider truly important, but I can see where he's coming from.
I would much rather have better missions. Take the miner quest that is basically a pop quiz. It could have so much more if it prompted you to side with one of the workers and spawned a new mission or effected missions further down the line. Similarly the Klingon changeling quest would have been far better if you could actually make choices - and preferrably ones that had an effect in the future.
Comments
The inherent contradiction in this is that they want you to pre-order a life-time subscription to the game BEFORE you can actually play the game. What we have today is a beta test version of part of the game, not the real game as you point out. So without being able to play the actual game, they require you to buy the lifetime subscription now?!? The offer is only good until you get to play the actual game? Sounds fishy ....
You only get the new-car special deal if you don't test drive the car first. Odd.
I find that to be kinda weird myself. Why would anyone drop nearly 300 bucks on a lifetime sub for a game they haven't fully experienced yet? But I wouldn't be surprised if some people already did.
Exactly, I have no problem with people who have tried the game that get a lifetime sub. Maybe they have a friend whose going to play with them, or maybe they are just going to play casually, whatever the reason, they tried it so they should do what they want.
But I cant agree with people who throw that much money into a game they have never played before. I mean buying a game is one thing, thats 50 bucks, plus maybe an extra 15 for subscription. But once you get into the 100-200 dollar range, it starts to be very silly to just throw your money at something.
I disagree. STO is most like POTBS:
01) Without boarding combat. If I could run-n-gun as a Klingon to a Feddie's bridge and BBBZZZTTT him to death, I would've suffered through anything else.
02) "Away Team" combat in POTBS showed more flexibility and scale. Albeit, not much there, but then there isn't much here either.
03) POTBS had a robust system for building my own ship and trading and land ownership. Yes, it was flawed from the beginning and that is why I canceled my preorder to POTBS.
04) POTBS had port battles and land ownership. You had a stake in the game and it could be "won" then reset. A WW 2 online system would've worked here if they'd have modeled the general war.
05) POTBS had greater tactical combat options at least in single player. The line of ships of the line was silly, but that's actually accurate. There will be standardized fleet battles in STO, but who is going to care?
So, to sum up: STO is most like POTBS-lite. In addition, the missions & town structures in POTBS were much more fun. I played EVERY mission in POTBS.
Oh oh. And POTBS had THREE factions, including pirate. Introduce the Orion pirates and let them raid ships / bases / planets in both sectors and let the Klingons and Feds stop them. Woohoo wouldn't that've been fun?
Anyway, STO is a disappointment and POTBS, flawed as it is, doesn't deserve to be brought down to STO's level.
And yes, POTBS had all of this at launch.
I have always said the same thing about POTBS, If they had just focused on getting ship combat right, and not added in Avatar combat, the game probably could have hit it big.
I think they lost alot of focus once they jumped ship (Lawls!), and started developing Avatar combat alongside Ship combat.
Now for a game like SWTOR I think if they went into development with both space and land developed at the same time they could make a great game. SWTOR is also coming out in 2011, which gives them a 4 year development cycle.
Look at STO development cycle, 2 years of development time, does anyone else see this as ridiculous?? I havent seen a Proffesionally developed MMO launch in under 2 years in a long time. If anything people can see the flaw in the game right there.
Think if they actually put 2 more years of development into this game, instead of trying to make a quick buck. It could be great. But I dont think anyone should pay them monthly for 2 years to release a game.
Had they made some sort of effort, and not rushed it out the door, I would say differently.
How are the MMO players got screwed? You can simply avoid the game and not give Cryptic your money.
I disagree. STO is most like POTBS:
01) Without boarding combat. If I could run-n-gun as a Klingon to a Feddie's bridge and BBBZZZTTT him to death, I would've suffered through anything else.
02) "Away Team" combat in POTBS showed more flexibility and scale. Albeit, not much there, but then there isn't much here either.
03) POTBS had a robust system for building my own ship and trading and land ownership. Yes, it was flawed from the beginning and that is why I canceled my preorder to POTBS.
04) POTBS had port battles and land ownership. You had a stake in the game and it could be "won" then reset. A WW 2 online system would've worked here if they'd have modeled the general war.
05) POTBS had greater tactical combat options at least in single player. The line of ships of the line was silly, but that's actually accurate. There will be standardized fleet battles in STO, but who is going to care?
So, to sum up: STO is most like POTBS-lite. In addition, the missions & town structures in POTBS were much more fun. I played EVERY mission in POTBS.
Oh oh. And POTBS had THREE factions, including pirate. Introduce the Orion pirates and let them raid ships / bases / planets in both sectors and let the Klingons and Feds stop them. Woohoo wouldn't that've been fun?
Anyway, STO is a disappointment and POTBS, flawed as it is, doesn't deserve to be brought down to STO's level.
And yes, POTBS had all of this at launch.
"most like"
Travel map w/ large representations not to scale of your avatar.
Instanced, small "port" or social area
Instanced encounters.
Really nice customization on both part.
Instanced "away teams" aka boarding parties or whatever you want to call those tiny land based things they had.
Even the ship combat is reminiscent. Swirl around your arcs banging your space bar and some specials.
I do like the bridge officers, too bad they only equate a normal MMO's "special ability". You don't really interact with them, they contain no story elements, no plot devices, no content, they are just extra "specials" for combat.
This game feels rushed on every level.
Defensive much? And yes, PotBS was a huge disappointment at launch if memory servers. It suffered many of the same issues STO has to include massive lag in small light populated areas, buggy graphic issues, claustrophobic areas and blah, blah, blah...
Hmmm...done, bye.
I am going to be very reserved on what I say being that I only got to play the open beta for a little while since the server filled up,I have not been able to get back in at all. They are addressing this by adding new servers,but sadly by the time they get everything going smoothly the game will be released.I agree with most of this post,I have been in several beta tests and this game without a question is releasing way way way too early.They would be wise to delay this game for 6 mos. to a year or more to release it.When it comes to Star Trek this game does a terrible job of making it feel like Star Trek.The noob start area is probably the single most important part of the game they should get right from the get go and imo have failed miserably in this area.The Bridge of the Kittomer is so huge it feels like a big empty room and I mean Big.It does not even resemble a bridge of any Starship ever in the Star Trek Franchise the Artists were definatly absent when they had everyone watch all of the Star Trek TV shows.As of right now I have decided not to buy this game unless I see a delay and some kind of announcement from Cryptic that they are listening to their testers as even the STO Forums are loaded with posts saying Delay the Launch.They need to throw out the huge rooms and redesign them and redo a hell of alot.If they go ahead and release this in its current state I have to agree this game will fail quickly.If I were you I would not buy a lifetime sub as I do think its a ploy to maximize profits while they can. If my Huge Wall of text Crits you for 9999999 then you should have not taken the time to read it LOL.
I enjoy the game....yes it is buggy and choppy and flawed. I expected this. What I never expected...even as a Star Trek Fan...and avid mmo player...is a complete duplicated Star Trek Universe incorporating the plethora of source materials that comes with a 30+ year franchise. Hopefully in time...updates and expansions can bring us a reasonable illusion. I say reasonable because I can't imagine a game containing a fully realized universe...one or 2 worlds perhaps....but a whole endless universe? not just space..but a Universe.
The ship combat really saves it for me. The shield management and maneuvering ..crew member skills acting as heals and buffs...and yes the awesome sound of photon and phaser fire. The "boxed grid" space does bother me...(doesn't EVE have a grid system too?..i seem to remember this from the month I played...long long ago.) I would rather you travel through a generic space screen and then plot your course on a dropdown/window that represents a bridge navigation console. Plot a course using starfleet database ....then warp away. I , by no means , want to wait 1- infinity hours in warp to reach my destination. I don't need that degree of realism to immerse me in a sci-fi game.
Separate players grouping as one crew would be great too...anyway...I have hopes that this will attain a decent approximation of a Star Trek Universe. Then again....many of my hopes in life lay...like the corpses of lemmings...dashed upon the bloodied rocks at the bottom of some cursed cliff side.
Even Cryptic seems a litle ashamed at the state of this game. I've seen few real announcements about what they plan to do with this game in the future. Instead, there are vague, "Oh we'll be fixing that sometime" answers to players concerns. They just really seem like they're not really into it, just drawing a paycheck for as long as it lasts.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
The problem is, how do you know when to release? The business guys all want you to release NOW, and get money NOW. They don;t understand when you say it is not "fun" enough ... how can they judge that? You may say it needs another 6 months, and to them that means X million more dollars, and for what?
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
In all fairness, though, game developers will play around forever and not care if they release anything if they're not given a definite date when the money runs out. World of Warcraft's Friends and Family beta might still be going on if Vivendi hadn't decided they needed to start getting some money made. Blizzard was perfectly content doing nothing but playing their own game. Who wouldn't like to get paid for making a game world and knocking around in it with your friends? I can still remember the closed beta testers moaning about how much they hated the thought of open beta and then release. They were damned belligerent towards people who were anxious to start paying money to play.
Atari is in desperate straits. They need this thing released. Unfortunately, the go-to team Infogrames bought for them is simply not up to the challenge,
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Question; what leve did the OP get to to form this conclusion?
How far can you go on an OB key?
Judging a game on newbie area is pointless.
That is completely untrue, I enjoyed SWG, Everquest online adventures, and WOW from the moment I stepped foot in game.
The Newbie area is important, if they dont give you any fun right off the bat then why play? Why work for your fun?
And if your trying to imply that all MMO's start off the same, thats the developers fault then. They should be trying to innovate and make the tutorial levels intresting.
That is completely untrue, I enjoyed SWG, Everquest online adventures, and WOW from the moment I stepped foot in game.
The Newbie area is important, if they dont give you any fun right off the bat then why play? Why work for your fun?
Well passing final judgement like the thread is saying based on not a coupel of skills and abilities and probably the same newbie T1 ship is pointless when you are talking longevity.
Im level 10 right now and about to get T2 ship soon, I have been throught the ups and downs and ups again. I could experience the things the OP states if I was level 3. I also am not prepared to seriously take a review from a level 3. Ironic.
We saw reviews of AoC with tortage singing praises and then look what happened after.
All I am saying is that reviewers take a set amount of time to pass judgement in the community it is widely regarded that a set amount of time should pass right. Hence the F.E review pull. There is no way with the limitations with beta that I can see someone putting the whole smackdown on the game. Sure there are the niggly things, but to write it 'total' off is short sighted.
I'll take an AOC advocate's word for that
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
I'll take an AOC advocate's word for that
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
Exactly I did write that in reply.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat.
Point you make is very valid, at the same time there are not really any reviews out there of T4 / T5 ships and ground combat are there. No one knows and that is not enough to lay the law down on it and write it off.
It was not until a month or two after release with AoC and WAR people were seeing the major errors at endgame.
I've no idea where this guy has been and what he has done and I am suppose to take his word for it. There are no examples and it is a brand new poster.
I would call the first zone shoe box, but have you seen the galatic map?
I'll take an AOC advocate's word for that
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
Exactly I did write that in reply.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat.
Point you make is very valid, at the same time there are not really any reviews out there of T4 / T5 ships and ground combat are there. No one knows and that is not enough to lay the law down on it and write it off.
It was not until a month or two after release with AoC and WAR people were seeing the major errors at endgame.
Im really confused, didnt you just buy a lifetime sub? And now your comparing STO to AOC and WAR? Admitting you dont know if the end game will be good or bad? I mean its your money so I could care less, but I am curious, dont you think your spending your money a bit lavishly at that point?
I'll take an AOC advocate's word for that
Seriously though. The mechanics or UI will not suddenly be replaced at higher levels. When the newb areas are unfinished, why hope that later areas are somehow better. Game designers do try to recruit players by showing the best their game have to offer, so there is every reason to expect what we have seen so far to be the best they have on offer.
Exactly I did write that in reply.
What is the matter with the UI? I can pull it all over the place. There will be custom UI's for sure. There one thing lacking is a better filter on the chat.
Point you make is very valid, at the same time there are not really any reviews out there of T4 / T5 ships and ground combat are there. No one knows and that is not enough to lay the law down on it and write it off.
It was not until a month or two after release with AoC and WAR people were seeing the major errors at endgame.
Im really confused, didnt you just buy a lifetime sub? And now your comparing STO to AOC and WAR? Admitting you dont know if the end game will be good or bad? I mean its your money so I could care less, but I am curious, dont you think your spending your money a bit lavishly at that point?
I brought my LT sub based on the fact that I am a fan of the IP. I have history with the games for the past 10 years online.
ST Armada cost me £15 in 2000, it lasted 8 years and I got my time out of it. Same with A2 and Starfleet Command / Bridge Officer etc. Lately there was ST Legacy. A $60 purchase that I played for maybe 5 months and then barely if at all now over the past year.
And now we have ST:O. tis' an easy decision for me to go lifetime. Based on all the additional things I have seen and witnessed and been apart of in game compared to all the other ST games I own I know that I will be playing this for a long time.
As for the lavishness, well I did buy a G19 keyboard couple weeks ago too, and I am looking at getting a couple fermi cards in a couple months time. Money not an issue really. But I would caution people about the lifetime sub and if they really want it. I would say my experiences and background are different to 20 others.
If I didn't have the background nor the money, I would do a 3 month sub and then make a decision.
I certainly would not make a decision pre release of the actual game, with a level restriction of 16 on the basis whether to buy or not. That is only 2 tiers of ship from 5. Same with ground dynamics.
Best review so far..sto is like that..sadly for us..good for cryptic that makes money selling poor games to some fools...
Care to explain why? It's obvious a lot of people like the game but I haven't seen a single post as to why they like it other than "I'm having fun." Obviously, you like it if you're having fun but why? Show us the good side of STO (bonus points if you can do it without using the word "potential".' I'm just curious to see a positive review as in depth as the negative ones for a change.
People are often much more verbose when expressing displeasure than satisfaction. I do not have a long detailed hate/love list, besides, I am rarely that orderly.
I would say the biggest strength of Star Trek Online's game play is "open team play" You are not forced like many other games to organize a team prior and fill specific rolls and even do research and know the encounters prior to entering. The game does a decent job guiding people together and providing many opportunities to simply happen upon encounters. Star Trek Online provides that random spark of spontaneity that is missing in many online games.
As for the arguements about "true 3D" the entire Star Trek universe has never been true 3D, it has always emulated sea naval 2D in scope and manuevering.
Mh I don't read so mush good things about STO, some people seem to like it, most here don't
But all the fuzz about STO makes me so curious, I wanna try it out myself!
are there still beta-keys somewhere?
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waiting for ... nothing..
Cryptic has a record of haveing great Toon customization with not so great gameplay. I hope this doesnt turn out the case for this game.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Shows Cpts Picard, Kirk, Archerm Janeway, and Sisko how to Dance!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I'll admit before I tired it I was in the op's court but now as I am running around as a lt. commander I find I have learned how to handle the clunky ground stuff and make myself look like a tac officer should. A stun grenade to star then hit them with a plasma grenade, targeting comp the biggest one and snipe him or her before switching to my aoe pistols and go to town. Outfiting your bridge crew properly is very important for ground and space combat the skills they have matter, most tac officer npc's come with max yeild and sweep. Buy the skills that fit your play style, get a sciene officer and an enginer that compliment your style as well and remember to give them gear. Space combat gets better with a better ship, and yes virginia there are non combat missions I've had several of them. No I wasn't talking to anyone named virginia I was just being cute.
The space battles remind me of freelancer, and frankly I loved that game so I like this one, is it perfect no but no game ever is at launch. Remember pvp has pretty much sucked in every game that ever had it excepting DAoC. RvR is a good an honest idea for later on, right now the problem lies with coding attacking other plays while in normal space, you have to code in a lot of stuff to make it where players can make a zone in the middle of nowhere for pvp. You also have to code in locks for it, or not, and if you put locks in you have to code letting groups still enter that zone.
As to some peoples there is to much combat in the game, I'm a fan of star trek but I tend to remember the combat stuff a lot more than the other bits. Yet they did pay attention to the lore, tribbles they sure are cute and they heal you too, but they will litterally eat everything in your inventory to make more of themselves. The briar patch is a fun level all be it a pain since one wrong shot and your dead due to igniting the patch.
I went into this game expecting to hate it and I saw a few good elements I liked in it, like lotro pvp is consentual. It looks beautiful, and the how your going to play options are vast and intricate. There are bugs, a few rather bad ones, yet they are there, but I have also seen some amazing tactics from players who have been playing together for a while, they almost looked like a flight wing in the manuevers they did. So yeah, it is at times boring, but if you don't do this as a solo game it can be pretty decent.
I agree with the OP and PotBS comparison. I hit level 16 with both Klingon and Federation so pretty much the tier 1 and tier 2 experience is the same. Since the OB is limited to level 16 right now I still can't judge the whole game....Since everything is the same between tier 1 and 2. Tier 3 might hold the key to making this game really enjoyable. I still plan on sticking with the Klingon side of things at launch.
I do "like" the game and plan to buy it but can I say the game is good? No I can't, for me right now it's just alright. My favorite part is the space combat, the only way it could be better is if it had full 3D space flight, everything else is sub par. It has good potential if they actually listen to the subscribers and our concerns.
For those that have never played some of the Star Trek games of the past...
Star Fleet Command 3...later installment in a series based on the old board game Star Fleet Battles and the first adaptation The Warp Factor made for old Apple II computers.
www.youtube.com/watch
Star Trek Legacy, the latest in the bunch, though I never liked the controls.
www.youtube.com/watch
Star Trek Bridge Commander
www.youtube.com/watch
As you can see,Cryptic true to their word, has kept the tradition.
www.youtube.com/watch
My main beef with the UI is that there's way too much buttonmashing.
And I would like to see buttons for communication and target designation. I would like to be able to target multiple enemies so that when I have one enemy in front the rear phaser opens up on whatever target is in the rear arc. I would like to be able to designate targets in groups and accept targets from other players. And I would like the option to tie team chat messages to keys. -> Press F1 to send randomized greeting or a "Hi"
F2 to send out a targeting request and "Fire on my target" to team.
F3 to target previous targetting request
F4 to broadcast "MAYDAY! Shields down!"
F5 to send custom chat message "You guys suck! I'm logging off to play EVE!" or F6: "Thanks, guys, best PUG ever
"
And of course I would like to have nav points/vector to target so that I actually know where to drop off the wounded Starfleet members I just picked up. Well, you get the idea... We have these things in other games so why not in STO?
And the chat system is just horrible with the way it's divided.
Other than that I find the UI ugly and it feels unfinished. It's the little things like the annoying pop-up windows in the middle of battle. The graphical errors on the side when loading into an instance. The instance chooser that shows up for a fraction of a second before loading into the instance. All those little things that scream unfinished/slapped together.
I've seen the galactic map, but it still feels small and confined. Even Privateer felt bigger, to say nothing of the now ancient Elite. It's not something I consider truly important, but I can see where he's coming from.
I would much rather have better missions. Take the miner quest that is basically a pop quiz. It could have so much more if it prompted you to side with one of the workers and spawned a new mission or effected missions further down the line. Similarly the Klingon changeling quest would have been far better if you could actually make choices - and preferrably ones that had an effect in the future.