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TERA is BOT PROOF
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Just because theres no targeting doesn't make it any harder to make a bot for it. You're still going to be able to get an address for the object manager, and from that be able to get any mobs location, turn the player to that location, move to it, and attack. So yes, a bot for this game will be just as easy for a knowledgeable person to create, and work with the same efficiency as a bot for any other game.
then no one will play the game because they will whine if they lose stuff. IE Darkfall and Mortal (After launch)
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
then no one will play the game because they will whine if they lose stuff. IE Darkfall and Mortal (After launch)
You forgot to mention EVE. No one plays in it also.
Indeed. I don't think creating a bot for TERA will be impossible but we can always dream can't we? It all comes down to how Bluehole will manage the bot problem and and how proactive the GMs will be at preventing botting.
Personally I'm hoping the game will come sold as a box(or an initial fee digital download or both) and that people will be swiftly banned for botting. That way it's going to cost a lot for people to make new accounts to bot with and I'm sure it would discourage most people from doing so. Of course Chinese gold farmers is a whole other story since they resort to using credit card theft which is fucking low if you ask me
A good bot can do this. Almost anything a player can do a bot can do better.
The bot can just as easily as a player get the server query and respond to it.
Any simple verification test a bot can handle just fine. Any complicated verification will alienate users (some captchas are just nasty even for humans for example).
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
thats another thing i wanted to point out to some of these botters here. Also if you look at the vid, youll notice that the lancer was guarding alot. The enemies move around and they take a while to kill as well. I still dont see how they could hold their ground against such fearsome opponents
First off, posting with text much larger than normal doesn't make it look more official.
Second off, get off your Tera's-holier-than-thou rocker. Ooo the mobs can move back and forth, you obviously have not seen how intricate some botting programs can be. Glider was a popular WoW botting program that was able to play itself, could gather, could kill, could fly about and sell off junk, all on its own. You're saying someone couldn't code a program that will essentially tell itself to keep moving, spam "1,2,3", and use healing items when health >20%? The only way Blizzard removed Glider from the equation was by taking it up in court against them.
Also, calling us Botters and accusing us of being on Blizzard's pay roll, while you yourself joined today just to post this topic, is rather funny, not to mention hypocritical. Why would Blizzard be scared? WoW's 5+ years old, and they have all their A-team members working on the next MMO. WoW has been left in the hands of B/C-team people because frankly, they don't care. The bloody game probably pays for itself 5 times over every 6 months, and more than enough to supply the next game. They also have D3 and SC2, and well, the fanbase behind those games almost guarantees a huge sale first week. Why the hell would they give a damn about this game?
Oh, and XYZ co-ordinates are more along the lines of Geometry/basic algebra... =P
hahaha look, he got all serious about it! lol. Yea i joined today after lossing my account a couple months back. Your so smart man. I wish i was as smart as you. Using big words like hypocritical(no im not paid by BHS i just want to see it have more of a presence here at mmorpg.com) and bashing on my medium font. Wow's a good game thats for sure, but i still think it sucks. By the way, Tera is holier than thou.
This is why they will care about TERA. So if you wanna try to challenge your botting skills, then give it a shot at TERA. You will probably fail though....
Very ugly and cheap way, thinly disguised shameless ad for a minor game.
Try to bash WoW? even if WoW is not good, it has nothing to promote your game. Your game is as low or as high as it itself is. Feeling jealous or bitter about Blizz or WoW does not shape the quality of any other game.
As for aimbot, come on, I have seen headshot cracks for FPS. I do not need to aim, every shot is a head shot. Point is, with no one playing your game, who cares to make a macro or bot?
thats another thing i wanted to point out to some of these botters here. Also if you look at the vid, youll notice that the lancer was guarding alot. The enemies move around and they take a while to kill as well. I still dont see how they could hold their ground against such fearsome opponents
First off, posting with text much larger than normal doesn't make it look more official.
Second off, get off your Tera's-holier-than-thou rocker. Ooo the mobs can move back and forth, you obviously have not seen how intricate some botting programs can be. Glider was a popular WoW botting program that was able to play itself, could gather, could kill, could fly about and sell off junk, all on its own. You're saying someone couldn't code a program that will essentially tell itself to keep moving, spam "1,2,3", and use healing items when health >20%? The only way Blizzard removed Glider from the equation was by taking it up in court against them.
Also, calling us Botters and accusing us of being on Blizzard's pay roll, while you yourself joined today just to post this topic, is rather funny, not to mention hypocritical. Why would Blizzard be scared? WoW's 5+ years old, and they have all their A-team members working on the next MMO. WoW has been left in the hands of B/C-team people because frankly, they don't care. The bloody game probably pays for itself 5 times over every 6 months, and more than enough to supply the next game. They also have D3 and SC2, and well, the fanbase behind those games almost guarantees a huge sale first week. Why the hell would they give a damn about this game?
Oh, and XYZ co-ordinates are more along the lines of Geometry/basic algebra... =P
hahaha look, he got all serious about it! lol. Yea i joined today after lossing my account a couple months back. Your so smart man. I wish i was as smart as you. Using big words like hypocritical(no im not paid by BHS i just want to see it have more of a presence here at mmorpg.com) and bashing on my medium font. Wow's a good game thats for sure, but i still think it sucks. By the way, Tera is holier than thou.
This is why they will care about TERA. So if you wanna try to challenge your botting skills, then give it a shot at TERA. You will probably fail though....
Bashing your "medium" font choice? Yes, its unnecessary and does nothing to help your point.
Also, I never claimed you to be on the company payroll, but honestly? With the overwhelmingly one-sided, biased way you have of defending this game, I wouldn't blame myself if I did say that.
Now lets break down that "original" race idea of yours. The Popori are furries/anthros (*coughcough Furcadia cough*), Aman are reptiles (Hey guess what, EQ had those), those Castanics? Demons, ooooooo like that hasn't been done. Baraka? Is that Malfurion Stormrage in there? Nope, just a giant version of a look-a-like. The only original races I've seen so far are the Gibberlings of Allods, and the 4-armed cat-like beings in The Last Remnant. Fancy names an original race does not make.
Similarly, flashy combat a deep system it isn't. A mentally challenged person would love flashy, bright combat, and I wonder why (no offense meant to those). But flashy combat doesn't equate to deep and fufilling combat. You can polish sh** til it shines like a diamond, but its still sh** in the end.
Cool art style? Get in line. Same with your graphics comment. Blade & Soul has similar, if not better graphics, as does Aion in some regards.
Now, the last thing, which is the most substantial, is the sheer lack or grasp of what "Botting" is for you. Botting isn't something a person sits at the computer and does. No quite the opposite. Its called botting for a reason. I walk off, let a program do my work for me, and come back to see what I got at the end. It's a program. And far as I know, no program can "fear" anything, and doesn't take much, if any, skill at all. You are acting like the Botting programs people use are just friends, and are limited in number, when in all actuality, they aren't. Its a program that controls a character and does what it most. You kill it, it just comes back to its grinding spot and keeps going, and 9.9 times out of 10, the botting toon is of a higher level. You can't scare a bot off.
Dude, minor game you say? This right here is AAA goodness boy. Just because there spending more money on development instead of advertising doesn't mean that its crap. Heads will start turning ass soon as a beta comes. You prolly didnt even get any info on it. How you gonna come in here and post that worthless comment? Your probably full of crap about yourself gettin headshots all the time.
Wow set back several mmo's. They saw there success and they wanna make a game with identical game mechanics to make money, and they just keep comin out with the same bland point n click garbage. Tera is not following this trail of defeat. Instead, TERA is a completely original game that will lead and inspire the next generation of mmo games.
Bashing your "medium" font choice? Yes, its unnecessary and does nothing to help your point.
Also, I never claimed you to be on the company payroll, but honestly? With the overwhelmingly one-sided, biased way you have of defending this game, I wouldn't blame myself if I did say that.
Now lets break down that "original" race idea of yours. The Popori are furries/anthros (*coughcough Furcadia cough*), Aman are reptiles (Hey guess what, EQ had those), those Castanics? Demons, ooooooo like that hasn't been done. Baraka? Is that Malfurion Stormrage in there? Nope, just a giant version of a look-a-like. The only original races I've seen so far are the Gibberlings of Allods, and the 4-armed cat-like beings in The Last Remnant. Fancy names an original race does not make.
Similarly, flashy combat a deep system it isn't. A mentally challenged person would love flashy, bright combat, and I wonder why (no offense meant to those). But flashy combat doesn't equate to deep and fufilling combat. You can polish sh** til it shines like a diamond, but its still sh** in the end.
Cool art style? Get in line. Same with your graphics comment. Blade & Soul has similar, if not better graphics, as does Aion in some regards.
Now, the last thing, which is the most substantial, is the sheer lack or grasp of what "Botting" is for you. Botting isn't something a person sits at the computer and does. No quite the opposite. Its called botting for a reason. I walk off, let a program do my work for me, and come back to see what I got at the end. It's a program. And far as I know, no program can "fear" anything, and doesn't take much, if any, skill at all. You are acting like the Botting programs people use are just friends, and are limited in number, when in all actuality, they aren't. Its a program that controls a character and does what it most. You kill it, it just comes back to its grinding spot and keeps going, and 9.9 times out of 10, the botting toon is of a higher level. You can't scare a bot off.
Whats with you and not liking bigger letters? Dude, really? I didnt know botting wasnt controlled by someone sitting by his pc. Damn, you really are smart! lol. Seriously though the art style and graphics are bad ass. think of it this way though, lets say you put one of your bots in the game. Now this fool runs up on a monster and starts attacking. Does some damage n all but he just stands right in front of the monster and gets attacked several times and most likely dies because of that. In TERA each class ( melee classes, not so sure about archer and mages) has an evasive skill that makes the character jump away or behind the enamy, or guard with a shield. Your sayin that the bot will know when to do this?
By the way ill see you in game eventually once they start advertising... Thats all you hamburgers care about...
Yes, the bot can be programmed. How do you think the AI of the mobs determine when to do this or that in any game, MMO or not? Its all scripting. Don't feel like going into the nitty gritty, but it would be simple for someone to program a script that basically says "spam 1,2,3, use health pot at 50%, health pot at 20%" and such. Hell, the fact you just said that every class has a skill that must be triggered to evade is more than enough proof that a bot could do well.
They aren't going to make an MMO version of Demon's Souls, where if you do one thing wrong, you loose all your stuff. No, they'll ensure that all you need is a basic understanding of the combat system to fight and win. Thats more then enough for a bot to work.
And what's this about hamburgers? Sorry, I just don't see how that can even be an insult, much less one that makes any sense. Shouldn't have to resort to personal attacks just to try and defend a point. :P
Yes, the bot can be programmed. How do you think the AI of the mobs determine when to do this or that in any game, MMO or not? Its all scripting. Don't feel like going into the nitty gritty, but it would be simple for someone to program a script that basically says "spam 1,2,3, use health pot at 50%, health pot at 20%" and such. Hell, the fact you just said that every class has a skill that must be triggered to evade is more than enough proof that a bot could do well.
They aren't going to make an MMO version of Demon's Souls, where if you do one thing wrong, you loose all your stuff. No, they'll ensure that all you need is a basic understanding of the combat system to fight and win. Thats more then enough for a bot to work.
And what's this about hamburgers? Sorry, I just don't see how that can even be an insult, much less one that makes any sense. Shouldn't have to resort to personal attacks just to try and defend a point. :P
Look man im gettin tired here so thanks for helping me promote tera a little. We can do this some other time if you like, im prolly gonna be posting info threads on TERA forums section. I wouldnt doubt it that they would have some bots in the game. They will prolly take care of them somehow. Dont really matter to me as long as i get to enjoy the game. You dont need to repeat yourself either. Not sure if you understood my evade skill saying though. Its not triggered its more like a "press 2 to evade" kind of skill, like anytime you want. They did make an mmo version of demon souls... Darkfall. lol. close enough. ill get you to admit this game rocks eventually
Dude, minor game you say? This right here is AAA goodness boy. Just because there spending more money on development instead of advertising doesn't mean that its crap. Heads will start turning ass soon as a beta comes. You prolly didnt even get any info on it. How you gonna come in here and post that worthless comment? Your probably full of crap about yourself gettin headshots all the time.
Wow set back several mmo's. They saw there success and they wanna make a game with identical game mechanics to make money, and they just keep comin out with the same bland point n click garbage. Tera is not following this trail of defeat. Instead, TERA is a completely original game that will lead and inspire the next generation of mmo games.
Yes I say minor game. You can call it AAA or BBB, it matters not. You can type in big fonts, it matters not. Your game will just sit where it rightfully belongs. Typing some lines here won't turn the world. The world will turn on its own. Your lines of bigger fonts will stay as alphabets. That is it.
Whatever WoW is, has nothing to do with your typing. WoW will not lose a single sub because you type some big fonts. Your game will still sit right where it is, no matter how many big fonts you type.
In simple terms, keep typing and enjoy yourself.
Dude, minor game you say? This right here is AAA goodness boy. Just because there spending more money on development instead of advertising doesn't mean that its crap. Heads will start turning ass soon as a beta comes. You prolly didnt even get any info on it. How you gonna come in here and post that worthless comment? Your probably full of crap about yourself gettin headshots all the time.
Wow set back several mmo's. They saw there success and they wanna make a game with identical game mechanics to make money, and they just keep comin out with the same bland point n click garbage. Tera is not following this trail of defeat. Instead, TERA is a completely original game that will lead and inspire the next generation of mmo games.
Yes I say minor game. You can call it AAA or BBB, it matters not. You can type in big fonts, it matters not. Your game will just sit where it rightfully belongs. Typing some lines here won't turn the world. The world will turn on its own. Your lines of bigger fonts will stay as alphabets. That is it.
Whatever WoW is, has nothing to do with your typing. WoW will not lose a single sub because you type some big fonts. Your game will still sit right where it is, no matter how many big fonts you type.
In simple terms, keep typing and enjoy yourself.
I know, thats why im waitin for beta to come around. Then you can try it out and be a fan, alright. Until then ima keep posting all these great things about the game. Whats wrong with bigger font its hard to see what i write with this one cuz i got 1080p resolution. Guess ill have to stick to this cuz u find large fonts intimidating. Just go and do some research first. Before you keep talking that nonsense boy. heres a link... www.youtube.com/sergioadena#g/f check it out... come back with a higher understanding of the game and I might take your words into consideration. Damn, 2 poeple just message me that they unsubed from wow.
Dude, minor game you say? This right here is AAA goodness boy. Just because there spending more money on development instead of advertising doesn't mean that its crap. Heads will start turning ass soon as a beta comes. You prolly didnt even get any info on it. How you gonna come in here and post that worthless comment? Your probably full of crap about yourself gettin headshots all the time.
Wow set back several mmo's. They saw there success and they wanna make a game with identical game mechanics to make money, and they just keep comin out with the same bland point n click garbage. Tera is not following this trail of defeat. Instead, TERA is a completely original game that will lead and inspire the next generation of mmo games.
Yes I say minor game. You can call it AAA or BBB, it matters not. You can type in big fonts, it matters not. Your game will just sit where it rightfully belongs. Typing some lines here won't turn the world. The world will turn on its own. Your lines of bigger fonts will stay as alphabets. That is it.
Whatever WoW is, has nothing to do with your typing. WoW will not lose a single sub because you type some big fonts. Your game will still sit right where it is, no matter how many big fonts you type.
In simple terms, keep typing and enjoy yourself.
I know, thats why im waitin for beta to come around. Then you can try it out and be a fan, alright. Until then ima keep posting all these great things about the game. Whats wrong with bigger font its hard to see what i write with this one cuz i got 1080p resolution. Guess ill have to stick to this cuz u find large fonts intimidating. Just go and do some research first. Before you keep talking that nonsense boy. heres a link... www.youtube.com/sergioadena#g/f check it out... come back with a higher understanding of the game and I might take your words into consideration. Damn, 2 poeple just message me that they unsubed from wow.
Tell you what, you need a real lesson in marketing, you think spamming nonsense forever will make it real?
Damn, Obama just message me telling me you are on his list of most wanted fugitive.
means nothing bots can be very inteligent in there methods.
Many exsist for non targeting games AOC Darkfall are such games and the way bots work there is some form of character and shape recognition
LOL.... this thread is just fantastic.
So many people just talking out their butts about a topic they know nothing about.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on bot creation for today's MMO games but I do know a little about programming in general and botting in general.
FPS aimbots are a far cry from something that does what Glider did.
There have been a handful of full autoplay bots for various FPS games and they never worked very well. That could just be the quality of the programmers working on the project, or it could just be a very difficult thing to accomplish a realistic appearing AI in an FPS game that both moves and kills.
The average aimbot in an FPS game either hooks the .exe or .dll file related to the character memory for the game and then turns on when certain conditions are met... IE: Enemy player is visible in the screen.
The subpar aimbots in FPS games use colored models and a program that runs alongside the game that scans a certain area around the crosshair looking for a certain color to lock onto. These usually don't work anywhere nearly as well as a hook but are a lot less detectable.
Now... in an MMO game it is unlikely that a pixel color aimbot would last very long due to the fact that the developers could just put a file constancy check on the art files and if anything has been changed at all it'll re-download the correct files. But apparently Darkfall doesn't care.
As far as an exe hook for an MMO game, I don't see that lasting very long as this type of hacking is very easily detectable in an MMO environment. Glider had some type of way around Warden that let it hook into the game without being detected, but it's the only program of it's kind I've heard that does this and it also took constant updating to keep it undetected.
Even then, it was a simple (in terms of the game it was for) bot. Combining an FPS environment with MMO gameplay does not make it easy to develop a fully automated bot.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying I've never heard of it happening and I doubt we will until an MMOFPS game has 10million + subscribers. There's just no incentive for bot programmers to undertake such an enormous task when they could create one for a game like WoW much easier.
To this day I don't know of any FPS "bot" that's actually being used and no "FPS" bot for an MMO game at all.
I hope none of this violated the forum rules!
Edit: I forgot to add that I do NOT agree with the OP that Tera is botproof. No video game is botproof.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Tell you what, you need a real lesson in marketing, you think spamming nonsense forever will make it real?
Damn, Obama just message me telling me you are on his list of most wanted fugitive.
Tell you what, you need a real lesson in marketing, you think spamming nonsense forever will make it real?
Damn, Obama just message me telling me you are on his list of most wanted fugitive.
My bad, forgot to type in Punt Intended. Its a paraphrase to your original writing which you deleted from my quote, which in essense is just as stupid. 2 persons email you that they cancelled their WoW sub, your said. Really?
I do not need to read anything you link, nor do I need to go away. I read whatever I damn please, and go where my mood leads. It is working fine cos that is all you know. Matters not, no free lesson here for you. Keep spamming.
Thanks for the great reply to my topic. I know its possible, I just made that title to catch a few eyes. Worked out nicely. Thats what ive been tryin to tell these folks. That it sure as heck would be hard.
Tell you what, you need a real lesson in marketing, you think spamming nonsense forever will make it real?
Damn, Obama just message me telling me you are on his list of most wanted fugitive.
My bad, forgot to type in Punt Intended. Its a paraphrase to your original writing which you deleted from my quote, which in essense is just as stupid. 2 persons email you that they cancelled their WoW sub, your said. Really?
I do not need to read anything you link, nor do I need to go away. I read whatever I damn please, and go where my mood leads. It is working fine cos that is all you know. Matters not, no free lesson here for you. Keep spamming.
Camon now. You gotta stop taking these things so seriously. I could do this all night cuz i aint got any good mmo's to play. Im just telling you to quit being stubborn and check out that link. You will be surprised at how great that game is. I mean if you dont want to give it chance then why do u even argue with me. I guess your just as bored as me
No game is bot proof.
Just games that no one wants to bot on.
My few points broken down in simple format:
Videos do not make great games regardless of how "great" they look. Take Aion for example.
This game has yet to release substantial information. We have no idea how this game will come out other than visual stimulus and a few beta testings.
This game will have bots, no doubt. Regardless of how "hard" it would be, once a decent bot gets created it will multiple. Once multipled, multiply it again and again and you have yourself an L2 part 2. Calling it "impossible" is quite foolish.
On a side note, this game has me hyped up the most of the 2010 bunch, but not to the point of "AMAGAD HAX GAME BEST EVA" foolishness.
I believe there were a few posters in that section who made mentio of the fact that a bot can still find its target.
My thought, not being a programmer at all, is that at some actual point, the player's attack will meet a point on a mob where it will register as an attack.
If a bot can detect any of those "points" within a certain vicinity then I don't see why a bot couldn't be made.
But that is just a guess. Someone with actual experience or knowledge would have to say whether I got it right or not.
Sorvath you are correct, a hacker will simply create a collision dectection subroutine, that won't directly dectect mobs, but will attack whatever comes closests to it. In some cases you may see bots blindly attacking walls and game/world borders if no mobs spawn directly near the alleged bot.
Glider was capable of doing what it did primarily because the author spent a great deal of time reverse engineering the internals of WoW and Warden.
It is better than most FPS bots simply because it was a quality product. There are several FPS bots that are quite good that apply very similar techniques for the bot and for staying undetected. Glider essentially was a FPS bot as they all function basically the same. The modern FPS bots can basically play themselves and do a very good job at it.
Glider lasted so long because of the fact that it was virtually undetectable using rootkit techniques. It might still be out there and functioning but it has been a couple years since I've been interested in how it functions in particular. As Warden was given greater detection capabilities the Glider developer added the ability to hide from those techniques. The limitation of Warden is that it was stuck in user space. It would have been quite an undertaking for Blizzard to develop a windows driver to attempt to counter Glider so they sued the developer instead. Gliders main defense was kernel rootkit techniques which allowed it to hide anything and control everything.
Also, there are quite a few FPS bots that are quite advanced and have been applying rootkit techniques for longer than Glider because of the fact that FPS bot prevention companies knew they would have to resort to going into the kernel to guard to detection applications.
Packing and/or encryption of the binary and on-demand unpacking/decryption of parts needed to avoid memory scanners. Hooking kernel functions to filter information available to user applications. Hiding memory. Reading and modifying game data structures directly.
Hooking the DLLs is old hat and still used for various purposes. Running in the kernel and maybe now hypervisors is where it is at. This gives direct access to the application data. Why muck with screen data when everything the bot needs is sitting in memory waiting to be tapped directly. Entity location data, statistics, map data, etc. Some reverse engineering required and the good programs have been doing this for years.
Now, a quality bot is unlikely to arise for any individual MMOs but it is not out of the realm of possibility as their are many bot programs out there many MMOs. The main ones of note are used to assist players in controlling more than one player character at a time. Though I would not doubt there are many full bot programs that people do not publicly share.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.