With Star Trek Online. It was advertised (and still is on their frigging MAINPAGE on two different pages!!!) that there would be NO Skill CAP!! And that is exactly what would STO set apart, without restrictions and that they wanted you being able to skill up and try different skills if you so wanted to!! That's what the game was advertised as such and what people bought it for! Simple as that! This is a fundamental and radical change!! No matter how you naive Cryptic fanbois try to spin it. Cheers
Just a quick question, where is it on the site? I read everything but must have missed it. Can you link to where it says 'No skill caps'?
Thanks
EDIT check one of my posts on the second page of this thread! I posted it there.
People, this was said a long time ago in an interview. Guess people missed it at the time. But i read about the skill cap limit way back. Was just restated recently i guess. Still can be called bait and switch i guess, but for sure the info was out there if you followed all the interviews closely. Was back around the time of CB starting if i am remembering right. Anyhow not something new to me. With or without cap, this game was not something i considered a good game. I am pretty sure that it was Jack in that interview as well.
I seem to recall it being said awhile back as well, but I could be wrong. I don't really care enough about this to look it up because IMO this is all much ado about nothing.
This a good move. people want to specialize in everything one one toon. really? where is the challenge in that? people cry about respec hell Fallen Earth has ZERo respec. If you are not careful enough the only option you have is to delete your character and start over.
EVE gives only three character slots, how come no one cries on EVE forums for that? i really hope all these cry babies quit during beta so that more mature players can enjoy the game.
Because you have no friggin clue what you are talking about!
EVE Online has 3 char slots. But it's pointless, as you can only train skills on one single character at a time.
And you only need one char, as there no skill caps and you can train into anything you want, without ZERO restrictions.
Fallen Earth has a completely different design, plus with all the bonus AP missions, you can still pretty much create an effective allround crafter/combat build and be fully self sufficient! I know. As I play the game myself and have such a char!
With Star Trek Online. It was advertised (and still is on their frigging MAINPAGE on two different pages!!!) that there would be NO Skill CAP!!
That's what the game was advertised as such and what people bought it for! Simple as that!
This is a fundamental and radical change!! No matter how you naive Cryptic fanbois try to spin it.
Cheers
Oh so MMO is under going a change? hell that never happened before right? in FE doesnt matter how much bonus AP you get, unless you don't know how to allocate in proper skills and stats you are screwed anyways. In STO there was no room for error due to no limits on skills. But now you stick to one career path and specialize in it. And EVE system is the best and thats how it should be. Maybe Cryptic realised it now that they were just putting STO into too much easy mode.
Where is the balance or diversity left in game when everyone is sitting on their butt with same skills and same builds in STO? is there any point left for having three different career paths?
Maybe AGAIN, because you have no friggin clue and should actually read the links I provided you in my OP?
Maxing out ALL skills would be extremely hard and nearly impossible, as they also would stay ahead of the players by continueingly adding new skills.
That was the whole point!! But at least with the No Skill CAP, players could make effort in unlocking skills to be able to try and fly other ships if they so chose to.
What is wrong in that?? You are still locked into your carreer path (Engineer, Science or Tactical Officer). No matter what.
But people could at least continue to progress, even at the level cap and so able to learn skills to try and fly other ships.
So you fanbois should actually try play the game first, check all the different carreers skill trees and then come back here. Then we talk again. Before you make stupid assumptions.
If there is anything this skill CAP going to do, is INSTA kill any player diversity! People are going to be scared to death to be gimped, so pretty much everyone is going for the FOTM Cookie Cutter Template builds!
No one is going to dare experiment anymore, with the risk totally gimping and screwing their char.
Cheers
Bla blah blah... how the hell having a skill cap and not allowing people to invest in all three career path on one character is going to make them gimped. Your definition of being gimped is all wrong. If you can be tactical, science and engineer on one character you think that will somehow increase the diversity?
People, this was said a long time ago in an interview. Guess people missed it at the time. But i read about the skill cap limit way back. Was just restated recently i guess. Still can be called bait and switch i guess, but for sure the info was out there if you followed all the interviews closely. Was back around the time of CB starting if i am remembering right. Anyhow not something new to me. With or without cap, this game was not something i considered a good game. I am pretty sure that it was Jack in that interview as well.
I seem to recall it being said awhile back as well, but I could be wrong. I don't really care enough about this to look it up because IMO this is all much ado about nothing. Even in a worse case scenario, it still isn't anywhere near the level of an NGE type change as the OP is blowing it into.
PS: To the OP: Calling those that disagree with you fanbois isn't going to convince anyone that you're right.
I wish someone could find a link to it, but then, that still wouldn't explain why they're saying one thing and advertising another.
For me, it's a game changer. From a standpoint of them being honest, and from a standpoint of not wanting to have to repeat content to fly different ships, and having to pay them even more money(character slots) just to be able to do it. It feels to me like they're changing the design of their game to something that doesn't really work correctly within its own context. And I can't seem to find a reason other than to make more money.
Next, think about what this means IF THEY DO create more factions in the future...
With Star Trek Online. It was advertised (and still is on their frigging MAINPAGE on two different pages!!!) that there would be NO Skill CAP!! And that is exactly what would STO set apart, without restrictions and that they wanted you being able to skill up and try different skills if you so wanted to!! That's what the game was advertised as such and what people bought it for! Simple as that! This is a fundamental and radical change!! No matter how you naive Cryptic fanbois try to spin it. Cheers
Just a quick question, where is it on the site? I read everything but must have missed it. Can you link to where it says 'No skill caps'?
Thanks
EDIT check one of my posts on the second page of this thread! I posted it there.
Found it, Thank you
I dunno, it really doesnt seem to be too big of a deal to me, as I am used to most games having some sort of skill cap that can and usually will be increased with the addition of new content/levels/skills.
At least they decided to do this before the actual release of the game and not a few months down the road. Sucks for the people who buy lifetime subscriptions, but then again they could probably get their money back before the 2nd anyway so no big deal there either. One more reason to not jump on the whole lifetime subscription thing with any game unless you dont care about the money.
But again, MMOs never seem to stay true to any aspect of the original idea. Systems get added and tossed frequently and gameplay is always effected. I learned long ago to never hang on the words of a dev team about any features in a game until I see the final product in a playable for at retail/trial. I still find the game fun for what it is and this change doesnt effect me at all, so I am good.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Maybe AGAIN, because you have no friggin clue and should actually read the links I provided you in my OP? Maxing out ALL skills would be extremely hard and nearly impossible, as they also would stay ahead of the players by continueingly adding new skills. That was the whole point!! But at least with the No Skill CAP, players could make effort in unlocking skills to be able to try and fly other ships if they so chose to. What is wrong in that?? You are still locked into your carreer path (Engineer, Science or Tactical Officer). No matter what. But people could at least continue to progress, even at the level cap and so able to learn skills to try and fly other ships. So you fanbois should actually try play the game first, check all the different carreers skill trees and then come back here. Then we talk again. Before you make stupid assumptions. If there is anything this skill CAP going to do, is INSTA kill any player diversity! People are going to be scared to death to be gimped, so pretty much everyone is going for the FOTM Cookie Cutter Template builds! No one is going to dare experiment anymore, with the risk totally gimping and screwing their char. Cheers
Bla blah blah... how the hell having a skill cap and not allowing people to invest in all three career path on one character is going to make them gimped. Your definition of being gimped is all wrong. If you can be tactical, science and engineer on one character you think that will somehow increase the diversity?
Ehmm LOL.... mister troll fanboi, have you actually played the game? Appearently NOT! /facepalm
If you roll a Engineer, you only have engineer skill trees available to you!
The No Skill CAP only affected the Space Skill trees. Wich only differentiates itself in wich ships you can fly and what ship weapon systems and modules you can use. What is wrong in able to fly different ships? You can still only fly ONE ship at a time.
So again! You fanbois should actually try get into the Open Beta, shut up, and play the game yourself first, before spouting and trolling nonsense you know nothing about!!
Cheers
I am sorry for not being specific but considering space campaign as being the main draw its a move in right direction. Ofcourse you can only fly one ship at a time just like you can only play one character a time. The ships are an extension of your character in space and has to be treated with same restrictions.
Also you calling me a fanboi is kinda ironic since you are the one screaming here on top of your lungs. if you were not a hurt fanboi you wouldn't be even here crying your guts out.
I can see where Guil is coming from and he does have a valid point.
But the thing is we now know you can only have X amount of skill at the cap which will make a player have to chose his ship/playstyle carefully.
Its not really a bad thing because you might be able to max out 1 ship-type of skills (say skills that would be better for running with an Escort) meanwhile only having enough points to become only moderatly viable in the other ship types (again, not really that big a deal but still kinda annoying for those who believed they would be able to be awesome in everything only to be told they can be awesome in 1 and ok in the other 2.).
But my opinion on the matter is that its just silly to get all crazy about the change. Shit happens and at least it happened before the launch and not 6 months down the road. People who buy the game at launch and really dont read the forums wont even notice nor care. Now if they waited till there was a paying playerbase already ingame and used to the way it worked and then changed it, yeah I would understand the anger and would probably be upset myself. But as it is right now, it registers as a 'meh' on meter of things to care about...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Sorry to interrupt, but it seems that a few posters here do not understand or are not familiar with the skill system in STO (and with that why no skill cap is really a good idea). Let me try to clarify:
The skilltree in the game doesn't quite function like it does in other games. It doesn't unlock new skills for your character to use, but rather augments them, improving cooldowns and effect. Each tree item has 9 ranks, modifies 2-3 in-game skills and features diminishing returns. With that in mind, the actual skills themselves are provided by your officers, equipment and the ship you're piloting.
Better equipment and ships = better effects on the skill. Most equipment i've seen in-game so far provides 2-3 skills at most. So in this case even if your skilltree were to be maxed, you'd still need to equipment grind to find fitting abilities.
It gets a bit more complicated with officers. If you're for example not happy with a certain skill they offer and wish to change it, you lose all points invested in the skill and the replacement starts at rank 1. Meaning i still need to regrind all the skillpoints for that officer (which really isn't that fast of a process). So if (again assuming a maxed skill tree) for example i weren't happy with my tactical's mines skill anymore and wanted the torpedoes one instead, i'd have to re-grind the skill all over again from scratch on that person.
In addition to that you can't just spend skills at will wherever you want, as you're required to spend a certain amount to advance in rank. I had to pick up a ton of fillers just to get to Lt.Com
Another thing to consider is that items in the tree get progressively more expensive, it makes you think twice about spending points in the high end abilities regardless, especially with the diminishing returns deal. To me personally, seeing the skillsystem from this point of view, an unlimited CHARACTER(!) skill tree makes all the more sense, as the entire system is built around that concept. With the changes you could just stick 5-6 points into every available skill tree item without overly "gimping" yourself. I hope this at least clarifies the situation to people a bit more.
That being said, I'm still keeping my pre-order. The unlimited skill point thing (no matter how tedious and grindy) though was a huge factor for a lifetime sub to me...
They are such a fanbois, so naive and really think Cryptic did this sudden radical fundamental change to benefit the players and the game.
I seriously hope you're not referring to my posts here. Because if you actually read them and understood what I was saying I was saying whether they meant to in the beginning or not, it's a horrible design. How is that a fanboi point to make? I don't care why they changed it or if they left it as is, it's lazy development, saying endgame is all about just respecing over and over again is one of the worse Ideas I've seen in game development.
My second complaint was in regard to allowing respecs without a grind of some sort to make up for the change. Regardless of whether it's through MT or however they do it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Any talent that use to be a Cryptic before they broke off from NCSoft stayed with NCSoft and became the Paragon Dev Team. Thats why content continues to be pumped out for CoX while CO can barely come out with any content. But none of this suprises me at all. This is Cryptic we are talking about. Remember that interview where they said they had learned from there mistakes with CO. What a joke! Yeah they learned something all right. They learned that they can screw over there community and get away with it.
I really start to believe that too.
CO is pretty much done for. It hardly received any updates. And it dissapeared from the radar completely. No one is talking about it anymore. (at least not in a positive way)
The same is now going to happen with STO. Big hype, scam and screw people wherever they can. And after the first month. They put it in maintenance mode. Game goes off the radar. And Cryptic will start looking for the next IP to destroy.
Cheers
And isn't that about the time Bill Roper took control of the company, or shortly after?
Sorry to interrupt, but it seems that a few posters here do not understand or are not familiar with the skill system in STO (and with that why no skill cap is really a good idea). Let me try to clarify:
The skilltree in the game doesn't quite function like it does in other games. It doesn't unlock new skills for your character to use, but rather augments them, improving cooldowns and effect. Each tree item has 9 ranks, modifies 2-3 in-game skills and features diminishing returns. With that in mind, the actual skills themselves are provided by your officers, equipment and the ship you're piloting.
Better equipment and ships = better effects on the skill. Most equipment i've seen in-game so far provides 2-3 skills at most. So in this case even if your skilltree were to be maxed, you'd still need to equipment grind to find fitting abilities.
It gets a bit more complicated with officers. If you're for example not happy with a certain skill they offer and wish to change it, you lose all points invested in the skill and the replacement starts at rank 1. Meaning i still need to regrind all the skillpoints for that officer (which really isn't that fast of a process). So if (again assuming a maxed skill tree) for example i weren't happy with my tactical's mines skill anymore and wanted the torpedoes one instead, i'd have to re-grind the skill all over again from scratch on that person.
In addition to that you can't just spend skills at will wherever you want, as you're required to spend a certain amount to advance in rank. I had to pick up a ton of fillers just to get to Lt.Com
Another thing to consider is that items in the tree get progressively more expensive, it makes you think twice about spending points in the high end abilities regardless, especially with the diminishing returns deal. To me personally, seeing the skillsystem from this point of view, an unlimited CHARACTER(!) skill tree makes all the more sense, as the entire system is built around that concept. With the changes you could just stick 5-6 points into every available skill tree item without overly "gimping" yourself. I hope this at least clarifies the situation to people a bit more.
That being said, I'm still keeping my pre-order. The unlimited skill point thing (no matter how tedious and grindy) though was a huge factor for a lifetime sub to me...
I still do not see a problem with a skill cap, unless a player can not earn the skill points back that were lost when they changed skills.
Any talent that use to be a Cryptic before they broke off from NCSoft stayed with NCSoft and became the Paragon Dev Team. Thats why content continues to be pumped out for CoX while CO can barely come out with any content. But none of this suprises me at all. This is Cryptic we are talking about. Remember that interview where they said they had learned from there mistakes with CO. What a joke! Yeah they learned something all right. They learned that they can screw over there community and get away with it.
I really start to believe that too.
CO is pretty much done for. It hardly received any updates. And it dissapeared from the radar completely. No one is talking about it anymore. (at least not in a positive way)
The same is now going to happen with STO. Big hype, scam and screw people wherever they can. And after the first month. They put it in maintenance mode. Game goes off the radar. And Cryptic will start looking for the next IP to destroy.
Cheers
And isn't that about the time Bill Roper took control of the company, or shortly after?
Yeah same Bill Roper who stole my kittens and punched the old lady in my neighbourhood . That guy is evil and most probably bring end to the world in 2012. That man is evil.
here the 10tonhammer article: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/79458 So at the last moment, after people have pre-ordered / bought lifetime/longterm subs, they do such a sweeping change to the game. Wich was basically one of the MAJOR selling points of the game. All I smell here in this last minute RADICAL decision, is Micro Transactioned Respecs / char slots! Money Money Money! All they care about. That's why Cryptic should go die in a fire. They screwed over people in Champions Online during Headstart / Launch. And now they do it YET AGAIN with Star Trek Online. Way to go Cryptic!
A company in business of making games is trying to earn money? damn they are truly evil. How many other products do you hate? Coke? Pepsi? Mc donalds? hell all of these companies use their own strategies to make as much money as possible.
Yes, but when you buy a six-pack of Coke or Pepsi and bring it to the cashier, Pepsi/Coke doesn't instruct the cashier to charge you for the six pack and then take 3-4 sodas out before giving you the six-pack.
Sorry to interrupt, but it seems that a few posters here do not understand or are not familiar with the skill system in STO (and with that why no skill cap is really a good idea). Let me try to clarify:
The skilltree in the game doesn't quite function like it does in other games. It doesn't unlock new skills for your character to use, but rather augments them, improving cooldowns and effect. Each tree item has 9 ranks, modifies 2-3 in-game skills and features diminishing returns. With that in mind, the actual skills themselves are provided by your officers, equipment and the ship you're piloting.
Better equipment and ships = better effects on the skill. Most equipment i've seen in-game so far provides 2-3 skills at most. So in this case even if your skilltree were to be maxed, you'd still need to equipment grind to find fitting abilities.
It gets a bit more complicated with officers. If you're for example not happy with a certain skill they offer and wish to change it, you lose all points invested in the skill and the replacement starts at rank 1. Meaning i still need to regrind all the skillpoints for that officer (which really isn't that fast of a process). So if (again assuming a maxed skill tree) for example i weren't happy with my tactical's mines skill anymore and wanted the torpedoes one instead, i'd have to re-grind the skill all over again from scratch on that person.
In addition to that you can't just spend skills at will wherever you want, as you're required to spend a certain amount to advance in rank. I had to pick up a ton of fillers just to get to Lt.Com
Another thing to consider is that items in the tree get progressively more expensive, it makes you think twice about spending points in the high end abilities regardless, especially with the diminishing returns deal. To me personally, seeing the skillsystem from this point of view, an unlimited CHARACTER(!) skill tree makes all the more sense, as the entire system is built around that concept. With the changes you could just stick 5-6 points into every available skill tree item without overly "gimping" yourself. I hope this at least clarifies the situation to people a bit more.
That being said, I'm still keeping my pre-order. The unlimited skill point thing (no matter how tedious and grindy) though was a huge factor for a lifetime sub to me...
I still do not see a problem with a skill cap, unless a player can not earn the skill points back that were lost when they changed skills.
There is nothing wrong at all with a skill cap. Problem is that up until this there was no mention of one to my knowledge so that brings back memories of CO. If you wasnt aware, CO underwent major changes first patch on launch day that changed many peoples gameplay and that included the head start folks. At least this time they didnt wait till launch day.
Agreed.
I dont care about the whole skill cap issue and dont see anything wrong with the change. I mean its being done before the game hits retail which is fine (if it happened after retail then yes, I probably would mind).
Sadly some people bought the game and a lifetime sub thinking they were getting one version of the game only to find out that they are getting something a bit different. One of the risks of being an early adopter.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
LOL!!! Ummm... because Eve HAS NO SKILL CAP? Think before you type.
EVE also doesn't have specific career paths. So having skill caps is pointless.
So you're agreeing with me that bringing up the 3 person limitation in Eve is in no way a parallel to a another game that has 3 slots, and:
1. Limits what skills are available to you based on class.
2. Is now going to limit the amount of skills you have in that class.
?
Truth be told, Eve would do just fine with only ONE character slot. I suppose some people might use the alts for spying. That's about it. But STO is entirely a different story.
I can see where Guil is coming from and he does have a valid point.
But the thing is we now know you can only have X amount of skill at the cap which will make a player have to chose his ship/playstyle carefully.
Its not really a bad thing because you might be able to max out 1 ship-type of skills (say skills that would be better for running with an Escort) meanwhile only having enough points to become only moderatly viable in the other ship types (again, not really that big a deal but still kinda annoying for those who believed they would be able to be awesome in everything only to be told they can be awesome in 1 and ok in the other 2.).
But my opinion on the matter is that its just silly to get all crazy about the change. Shit happens and at least it happened before the launch and not 6 months down the road. People who buy the game at launch and really dont read the forums wont even notice nor care. Now if they waited till there was a paying playerbase already ingame and used to the way it worked and then changed it, yeah I would understand the anger and would probably be upset myself. But as it is right now, it registers as a 'meh' on meter of things to care about...
And that would be fine with me too, IF the game had 5-6 character slots AND enough individual content for at LEAST 2-3 of them.
This game was not made that way, and I get the reasons why and that they're mostly technical. But now, this is more and more looking like "promise more, provide less, and charge again for what you promised initially." I won't be surprised if they sell "unlimited skill points" options in the marketplace. This is especially insulting because this time there's no TECHNICAL reason to limit characters this way, and as was pointed out, there was no reason from a "overpowerful epeen munchkin" standpoint. Having every ship skill in the game does little once you've rolled out in your ship of choice.
Comments
Just a quick question, where is it on the site? I read everything but must have missed it. Can you link to where it says 'No skill caps'?
Thanks
EDIT check one of my posts on the second page of this thread! I posted it there.
I seem to recall it being said awhile back as well, but I could be wrong. I don't really care enough about this to look it up because IMO this is all much ado about nothing.
This a good move. people want to specialize in everything one one toon. really? where is the challenge in that? people cry about respec hell Fallen Earth has ZERo respec. If you are not careful enough the only option you have is to delete your character and start over.
EVE gives only three character slots, how come no one cries on EVE forums for that? i really hope all these cry babies quit during beta so that more mature players can enjoy the game.
Because you have no friggin clue what you are talking about!
EVE Online has 3 char slots. But it's pointless, as you can only train skills on one single character at a time.
And you only need one char, as there no skill caps and you can train into anything you want, without ZERO restrictions.
Fallen Earth has a completely different design, plus with all the bonus AP missions, you can still pretty much create an effective allround crafter/combat build and be fully self sufficient! I know. As I play the game myself and have such a char!
With Star Trek Online. It was advertised (and still is on their frigging MAINPAGE on two different pages!!!) that there would be NO Skill CAP!!
That's what the game was advertised as such and what people bought it for! Simple as that!
This is a fundamental and radical change!! No matter how you naive Cryptic fanbois try to spin it.
Cheers
Oh so MMO is under going a change? hell that never happened before right? in FE doesnt matter how much bonus AP you get, unless you don't know how to allocate in proper skills and stats you are screwed anyways. In STO there was no room for error due to no limits on skills. But now you stick to one career path and specialize in it. And EVE system is the best and thats how it should be. Maybe Cryptic realised it now that they were just putting STO into too much easy mode.
Where is the balance or diversity left in game when everyone is sitting on their butt with same skills and same builds in STO? is there any point left for having three different career paths?
Maybe AGAIN, because you have no friggin clue and should actually read the links I provided you in my OP?
Maxing out ALL skills would be extremely hard and nearly impossible, as they also would stay ahead of the players by continueingly adding new skills.
That was the whole point!! But at least with the No Skill CAP, players could make effort in unlocking skills to be able to try and fly other ships if they so chose to.
What is wrong in that?? You are still locked into your carreer path (Engineer, Science or Tactical Officer). No matter what.
But people could at least continue to progress, even at the level cap and so able to learn skills to try and fly other ships.
So you fanbois should actually try play the game first, check all the different carreers skill trees and then come back here. Then we talk again. Before you make stupid assumptions.
If there is anything this skill CAP going to do, is INSTA kill any player diversity! People are going to be scared to death to be gimped, so pretty much everyone is going for the FOTM Cookie Cutter Template builds!
No one is going to dare experiment anymore, with the risk totally gimping and screwing their char.
Cheers
Bla blah blah... how the hell having a skill cap and not allowing people to invest in all three career path on one character is going to make them gimped. Your definition of being gimped is all wrong. If you can be tactical, science and engineer on one character you think that will somehow increase the diversity?
I seem to recall it being said awhile back as well, but I could be wrong. I don't really care enough about this to look it up because IMO this is all much ado about nothing. Even in a worse case scenario, it still isn't anywhere near the level of an NGE type change as the OP is blowing it into.
PS: To the OP: Calling those that disagree with you fanbois isn't going to convince anyone that you're right.
I wish someone could find a link to it, but then, that still wouldn't explain why they're saying one thing and advertising another.
For me, it's a game changer. From a standpoint of them being honest, and from a standpoint of not wanting to have to repeat content to fly different ships, and having to pay them even more money(character slots) just to be able to do it. It feels to me like they're changing the design of their game to something that doesn't really work correctly within its own context. And I can't seem to find a reason other than to make more money.
Next, think about what this means IF THEY DO create more factions in the future...
Just a quick question, where is it on the site? I read everything but must have missed it. Can you link to where it says 'No skill caps'?
Thanks
EDIT check one of my posts on the second page of this thread! I posted it there.
Found it, Thank you
I dunno, it really doesnt seem to be too big of a deal to me, as I am used to most games having some sort of skill cap that can and usually will be increased with the addition of new content/levels/skills.
At least they decided to do this before the actual release of the game and not a few months down the road. Sucks for the people who buy lifetime subscriptions, but then again they could probably get their money back before the 2nd anyway so no big deal there either. One more reason to not jump on the whole lifetime subscription thing with any game unless you dont care about the money.
But again, MMOs never seem to stay true to any aspect of the original idea. Systems get added and tossed frequently and gameplay is always effected. I learned long ago to never hang on the words of a dev team about any features in a game until I see the final product in a playable for at retail/trial. I still find the game fun for what it is and this change doesnt effect me at all, so I am good.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Bla blah blah... how the hell having a skill cap and not allowing people to invest in all three career path on one character is going to make them gimped. Your definition of being gimped is all wrong. If you can be tactical, science and engineer on one character you think that will somehow increase the diversity?
Ehmm LOL.... mister troll fanboi, have you actually played the game? Appearently NOT! /facepalm
If you roll a Engineer, you only have engineer skill trees available to you!
The No Skill CAP only affected the Space Skill trees. Wich only differentiates itself in wich ships you can fly and what ship weapon systems and modules you can use. What is wrong in able to fly different ships? You can still only fly ONE ship at a time.
So again! You fanbois should actually try get into the Open Beta, shut up, and play the game yourself first, before spouting and trolling nonsense you know nothing about!!
Cheers
I am sorry for not being specific but considering space campaign as being the main draw its a move in right direction. Ofcourse you can only fly one ship at a time just like you can only play one character a time. The ships are an extension of your character in space and has to be treated with same restrictions.
Also you calling me a fanboi is kinda ironic since you are the one screaming here on top of your lungs. if you were not a hurt fanboi you wouldn't be even here crying your guts out.
I can see where Guil is coming from and he does have a valid point.
But the thing is we now know you can only have X amount of skill at the cap which will make a player have to chose his ship/playstyle carefully.
Its not really a bad thing because you might be able to max out 1 ship-type of skills (say skills that would be better for running with an Escort) meanwhile only having enough points to become only moderatly viable in the other ship types (again, not really that big a deal but still kinda annoying for those who believed they would be able to be awesome in everything only to be told they can be awesome in 1 and ok in the other 2.).
But my opinion on the matter is that its just silly to get all crazy about the change. Shit happens and at least it happened before the launch and not 6 months down the road. People who buy the game at launch and really dont read the forums wont even notice nor care. Now if they waited till there was a paying playerbase already ingame and used to the way it worked and then changed it, yeah I would understand the anger and would probably be upset myself. But as it is right now, it registers as a 'meh' on meter of things to care about...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
This should be no suprise at all, it's Cryptic we're talking about here.
You mean ATARI not Cryptic.
You mean ATARI not Cryptic.
Ehmm no. ATARI might have forced them to launch the game half assed and half finished.
But this last minute radical change is completely Cryptic's.
Sorry to interrupt, but it seems that a few posters here do not understand or are not familiar with the skill system in STO (and with that why no skill cap is really a good idea). Let me try to clarify:
The skilltree in the game doesn't quite function like it does in other games. It doesn't unlock new skills for your character to use, but rather augments them, improving cooldowns and effect. Each tree item has 9 ranks, modifies 2-3 in-game skills and features diminishing returns. With that in mind, the actual skills themselves are provided by your officers, equipment and the ship you're piloting.
Better equipment and ships = better effects on the skill. Most equipment i've seen in-game so far provides 2-3 skills at most. So in this case even if your skilltree were to be maxed, you'd still need to equipment grind to find fitting abilities.
It gets a bit more complicated with officers. If you're for example not happy with a certain skill they offer and wish to change it, you lose all points invested in the skill and the replacement starts at rank 1. Meaning i still need to regrind all the skillpoints for that officer (which really isn't that fast of a process). So if (again assuming a maxed skill tree) for example i weren't happy with my tactical's mines skill anymore and wanted the torpedoes one instead, i'd have to re-grind the skill all over again from scratch on that person.
In addition to that you can't just spend skills at will wherever you want, as you're required to spend a certain amount to advance in rank. I had to pick up a ton of fillers just to get to Lt.Com
Another thing to consider is that items in the tree get progressively more expensive, it makes you think twice about spending points in the high end abilities regardless, especially with the diminishing returns deal. To me personally, seeing the skillsystem from this point of view, an unlimited CHARACTER(!) skill tree makes all the more sense, as the entire system is built around that concept. With the changes you could just stick 5-6 points into every available skill tree item without overly "gimping" yourself. I hope this at least clarifies the situation to people a bit more.
That being said, I'm still keeping my pre-order. The unlimited skill point thing (no matter how tedious and grindy) though was a huge factor for a lifetime sub to me...
I seriously hope you're not referring to my posts here. Because if you actually read them and understood what I was saying I was saying whether they meant to in the beginning or not, it's a horrible design. How is that a fanboi point to make? I don't care why they changed it or if they left it as is, it's lazy development, saying endgame is all about just respecing over and over again is one of the worse Ideas I've seen in game development.
My second complaint was in regard to allowing respecs without a grind of some sort to make up for the change. Regardless of whether it's through MT or however they do it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You mean ATARI not Cryptic.
Ehmm no. ATARI might have forced them to launch the game half assed and half finished.
But this last minute radical change is completely Cryptic's.
And you know that for as a FACT how? anything which makes ATARI extra money has to be their decision.
Having limited skill points means that those who have no life(which populate the MMO crowd) won't be vastly superior to the ones who play casually.
I'm okay with it.
Yes I played the beta, and while I do understand the points, I also understand why they did it.
Cryptic: Making your single player games into MMOs using a ladder system and instancing.
I was one of the people duped by Cryptic with CO. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice....
It's like STO is making the same mistakes that destroyed CO. I think it's about time to officially write off Cryptic.
Cryptic is a horrible company that makes horrible games. Boycott them and they will lose their CO and STO licenses.
yeah you show them keyboard warriors
'raises keyboard in air"
That's just not going to happen.
Hahah nerd rage, best part of internet forums. Get angry some more at your computer screens. Boycott Cryptic hahah sure, give it your best shot.
I really start to believe that too.
CO is pretty much done for. It hardly received any updates. And it dissapeared from the radar completely. No one is talking about it anymore. (at least not in a positive way)
The same is now going to happen with STO. Big hype, scam and screw people wherever they can. And after the first month. They put it in maintenance mode. Game goes off the radar. And Cryptic will start looking for the next IP to destroy.
Cheers
And isn't that about the time Bill Roper took control of the company, or shortly after?
Your fail comment, failed.
I still do not see a problem with a skill cap, unless a player can not earn the skill points back that were lost when they changed skills.
I really start to believe that too.
CO is pretty much done for. It hardly received any updates. And it dissapeared from the radar completely. No one is talking about it anymore. (at least not in a positive way)
The same is now going to happen with STO. Big hype, scam and screw people wherever they can. And after the first month. They put it in maintenance mode. Game goes off the radar. And Cryptic will start looking for the next IP to destroy.
Cheers
And isn't that about the time Bill Roper took control of the company, or shortly after?
Yeah same Bill Roper who stole my kittens and punched the old lady in my neighbourhood . That guy is evil and most probably bring end to the world in 2012. That man is evil.
A company in business of making games is trying to earn money? damn they are truly evil. How many other products do you hate? Coke? Pepsi? Mc donalds? hell all of these companies use their own strategies to make as much money as possible.
Yes, but when you buy a six-pack of Coke or Pepsi and bring it to the cashier, Pepsi/Coke doesn't instruct the cashier to charge you for the six pack and then take 3-4 sodas out before giving you the six-pack.
Your fail comment, failed.
I still do not see a problem with a skill cap, unless a player can not earn the skill points back that were lost when they changed skills.
There is nothing wrong at all with a skill cap. Problem is that up until this there was no mention of one to my knowledge so that brings back memories of CO. If you wasnt aware, CO underwent major changes first patch on launch day that changed many peoples gameplay and that included the head start folks. At least this time they didnt wait till launch day.
Agreed.
I dont care about the whole skill cap issue and dont see anything wrong with the change. I mean its being done before the game hits retail which is fine (if it happened after retail then yes, I probably would mind).
Sadly some people bought the game and a lifetime sub thinking they were getting one version of the game only to find out that they are getting something a bit different. One of the risks of being an early adopter.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
LOL!!! Ummm... because Eve HAS NO SKILL CAP? Think before you type.
EVE also doesn't have specific career paths. So having skill caps is pointless.
So you're agreeing with me that bringing up the 3 person limitation in Eve is in no way a parallel to a another game that has 3 slots, and:
1. Limits what skills are available to you based on class.
2. Is now going to limit the amount of skills you have in that class.
?
Truth be told, Eve would do just fine with only ONE character slot. I suppose some people might use the alts for spying. That's about it. But STO is entirely a different story.
I can see where Guil is coming from and he does have a valid point.
But the thing is we now know you can only have X amount of skill at the cap which will make a player have to chose his ship/playstyle carefully.
Its not really a bad thing because you might be able to max out 1 ship-type of skills (say skills that would be better for running with an Escort) meanwhile only having enough points to become only moderatly viable in the other ship types (again, not really that big a deal but still kinda annoying for those who believed they would be able to be awesome in everything only to be told they can be awesome in 1 and ok in the other 2.).
But my opinion on the matter is that its just silly to get all crazy about the change. Shit happens and at least it happened before the launch and not 6 months down the road. People who buy the game at launch and really dont read the forums wont even notice nor care. Now if they waited till there was a paying playerbase already ingame and used to the way it worked and then changed it, yeah I would understand the anger and would probably be upset myself. But as it is right now, it registers as a 'meh' on meter of things to care about...
And that would be fine with me too, IF the game had 5-6 character slots AND enough individual content for at LEAST 2-3 of them.
This game was not made that way, and I get the reasons why and that they're mostly technical. But now, this is more and more looking like "promise more, provide less, and charge again for what you promised initially." I won't be surprised if they sell "unlimited skill points" options in the marketplace. This is especially insulting because this time there's no TECHNICAL reason to limit characters this way, and as was pointed out, there was no reason from a "overpowerful epeen munchkin" standpoint. Having every ship skill in the game does little once you've rolled out in your ship of choice.