Originally posted by Shastra Originally posted by sookster54
Originally posted by blondeh Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful. 2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Not every game needs over 1 million subs to be thriving or flourish or successful. Till the day servers close down you can discuss semantics all you like. And as far as XFIRE is concerned i don't even want to go there. Xfire represents only minority of gamers and this topic has been discussed to death before.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
So basically cryptic is going to be blizzard now all the sudden?
As soon as players complain they do something about it.
There's no grinding in WoW cause of that and the game is to easy atm way to easy to get rare items no challenge what so ever.
Reach max lvl in a week or less yay how fun.
Well if cryptic changes the balance cause of some players whining about it im not gona buy it cause they are to worried about losing money just like blizzard is.
WoW is so good cause they do what players asks them to the game is ran by the players not by the devs so sad to see.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
Sure it should. you can watch it grow in beta, then watch the populations increase at launch then quickly drop off as people realize the state the game is really in and how bad it is and leave before they have to start paying monthly fees.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Not every game needs over 1 million subs to be thriving or flourish or successful. Till the day servers close down you can discuss semantics all you like. And as far as XFIRE is concerned i don't even want to go there. Xfire represents only minority of gamers and this topic has been discussed to death before.
Ah, but there will BE no "server closedowns" until they cut the game off entirely. That's one of the handy bits to having a shard-based game. Unfortunately, it will be a bit of a shock to you folks that continue to be in denial.
I don't claim Xfire to be deadly accurate, but I'd say it's accurate enough that you can bet CO isn't doing as well as, say, Age of Conan(#54). And if you want to say AoC is thriving, then by all means, it's a free country.
But back on topic, STO will do fine, at least for a while. STO is FUN, CO isn't. The magic question will be, "fun for how long?".
So basically cryptic is going to be blizzard now all the sudden? As soon as players complain they do something about it. There's no grinding in WoW cause of that and the game is to easy atm way to easy to get rare items no challenge what so ever. Reach max lvl in a week or less yay how fun. Well if cryptic changes the balance cause of some players whining about it im not gona buy it cause they are to worried about losing money just like blizzard is. WoW is so good cause they do what players asks them to the game is ran by the players not by the devs so sad to see.
Or maybe you considered the possibility that they are just tweaking the settings to see players reactions? there is still time for game to go live. The current change is not set in stone. A little perspective please people.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
That's a pretty decent sign, though much of that could be attributed to IP interest.
Let me restate my position: I think STO will do better than CO.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Not every game needs over 1 million subs to be thriving or flourish or successful. Till the day servers close down you can discuss semantics all you like. And as far as XFIRE is concerned i don't even want to go there. Xfire represents only minority of gamers and this topic has been discussed to death before.
Ah, but there will BE no "server closedowns" until they cut the game off entirely. That's one of the handy bits to having a shard-based game. Unfortunately, it will be a bit of a shock to you folks that continue to be in denial.
I don't claim Xfire to be deadly accurate, but I'd say it's accurate enough that you can bet CO isn't doing as well as, say, Age of Conan(#54). And if you want to say AoC is thriving, then by all means, it's a free country.
But back on topic, STO will do fine, at least for a while. STO is FUN, CO isn't. The magic question will be, "fun for how long?".
I am sorry but i don't consider myself to be in denial only because i don't agree with you. Nobody knows exactly how many subs CO has, thats only known by Cryptic. That is why i hate to get into discussions like this. Everyone thinks their opinion is a fact when sadly only facts are with the companies running their MMOS.
Or maybe you considered the possibility that they are just tweaking the settings to see players reactions? there is still time for game to go live. Th current change is not set in stone. A little perspective please people.
What is done can be undone, I agree. But they'd better get it right before they go live, or paying customers will have "certain expectations". Making something easier always goes better with a player base than making something harder.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
I think the thing people are overlooking is the "niches" these games fall into. SWG is the only Star Wars MMO atm, just like STO will be the only Star Trek MMO. Fans of these IPs will be drawn to the games naturally. Even if EVE blows away STO's space combat, Star Trek fans will prefer to play STO because it's the universe THEY want to play in.
Champions Online, on the other hand, didn't have a niche - or I should say, they were trying to squeeze into one that had already been tapped successfully by CoH/CoV. Because of the massive head start CoH/CoV had, it's really no surprise to me that CO is failing. DCUO will have the DC hero's to draw in some people, but again, I think the market has already been drained by CoH/CoV.
Just look at all the "fantasy" MMOs to pour out after WoW. Every game had dwarfs, elves, gnomes and swords it seemed, yet none of them can even compare to WoW in terms of content and appeal to the masses. God...looking at WoW's numbers is mind boggling to me. It's no wonder every company under the sun is trying to tap their playerbase.
Cryptic may have misjudged the players looking for another superhero game, but Star Trek fans will be naturally drawn to this title.
I am sorry but i don't consider myself to be in denial only because i don't agree with you. Nobody knows exactly how many subs CO has, thats only known by Cryptic. That is why i hate to get into discussions like this. Everyone thinks their opinion is a fact when sadly only facts are with the companies running their MMOS.
You don't have to know how many subs CO has to know that the game is not thriving. You just have to open your eyes. Either way, I'm done talking about it. You'll believe what you want to believe.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
I think the thing people are overlooking is the "niches" these games fall into. SWG is the only Star Wars MMO atm, just like STO will be the only Star Trek MMO. Fans of these IPs will be drawn to the games naturally. Even if EVE blows away STO's space combat, Star Trek fans will prefer to play STO because it's the universe THEY want to play in.
Champions Online, on the other hand, didn't have a niche - or I should say, they were trying to squeeze into one that had already been tapped successfully by CoH/CoV. Because of the massive head start CoH/CoV had, it's really no surprise to me that CO is failing. DCUO will have the DC hero's to draw in some people, but again, I think the market has already been drained by CoH/CoV.
Just look at all the "fantasy" MMOs to pour out after WoW. Every game had dwarfs, elves, gnomes and swords it seemed, yet none of them can even compare to WoW in terms of content and appeal to the masses. God...looking at WoW's numbers is mind boggling to me. It's no wonder every company under the sun is trying to tap their playerbase.
Cryptic may have misjudged the players looking for another superhero game, but Star Trek fans will be naturally drawn to this title.
I think the thing people are overlooking is the "niches" these games fall into. SWG is the only Star Wars MMO atm, just like STO will be the only Star Trek MMO. Fans of these IPs will be drawn to the games naturally. Even if EVE blows away STO's space combat, Star Trek fans will prefer to play STO because it's the universe THEY want to play in.
Champions Online, on the other hand, didn't have a niche - or I should say, they were trying to squeeze into one that had already been tapped successfully by CoH/CoV. Because of the massive head start CoH/CoV had, it's really no surprise to me that CO is failing. DCUO will have the DC hero's to draw in some people, but again, I think the market has already been drained by CoH/CoV.
Just look at all the "fantasy" MMOs to pour out after WoW. Every game had dwarfs, elves, gnomes and swords it seemed, yet none of them can even compare to WoW in terms of content and appeal to the masses. God...looking at WoW's numbers is mind boggling to me. It's no wonder every company under the sun is trying to tap their playerbase.
Cryptic may have misjudged the players looking for another superhero game, but Star Trek fans will be naturally drawn to this title.
CO did have a potential niche, they just chose not to take advantage of it. The heart and soul of the PnP game was the customization of the powers, and the system that allowed you to do it. They could have taken cues from previous video games like Freedom Force to come up with ways to allow people to create their very own powers that were unique to their character. Instead, they game us the ability to be "Sharkhead, the Alien Werewolf Zombie with fairy wings" that has the same Force Blast that thousands of other characters have.
I see my clue failed. Let's try again. I imagine they might want to get some content tested during beta. I wonder how they might push some players through some episodes? Hmmmm, I wonder...
OK, I'll bite Tim, you're saying they scaled the difficulty way down so that some upper level content could be tested in a relatively short period of time. Sounds reasonable, did the patch notes say anything to this effect, or that they were expeimenting with game balance/difficulty?
But seriously, that sort of stuff needs to be done in closed beta, open beta should actually be the build they plan to go with on launch day plus any minor defects and tweaks thrown in.
Now if they go back to the old system they'll piss off all the players who liked the new easier difficulty level and they truly are in a no win scenario.
Well the alternative is that they plan a retardedly easy game. Solo play was already easy-mode, so now let's turn fleet play into solo play. That makes sense to any of you, really?
I don't know where this feedback came from, but it wasn't the beta forums. Like I said, I think they just took the easy way out of fixing the fleet alpha strikes instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. That issue was the only thing I had seen complaints about as far as PvE difficulty.
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
I was going to stay out of this thread, but I can't let this pass -- The NGE was not brought to SWG because of any complaints by the then current players, nor the MMO community at large. The NGE had design begun on it nearly a year before it launched, even while SWG was relatively solid. The NGE was brought about purely by Marketing and the Bean Counters who wanted to make SWG as accessible to non-mmo players as Blizzard had made WoW accessible to non-mmo players.
So yeah, there is no comparison between the NGE and what Cryptic is doing now.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled rants...
Yeah exactly not sure what you're arguing with me about, there's no secret the easier ( more accessible) something is the more people who will be drawn to it. I never said a word about current players, I was referring to the rest of the world, who don't get into something because it's to hard. There would be no reason to think cryptics changes were brought on by current players, as those players are from CB (only way was to pay and be a customer) it's the masses that were brought in by OB that brought about these changes, so really it is the same thing.
The difference being with SWG it was an already live game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Robsolf CO did have a potential niche, they just chose not to take advantage of it.
That's where I'm not sure you're correct. I think the "niche" they went after already had a very good game there that they would have to compete with. Nothing about "custom powers" can't be done in CoH/CoV already. While Cryptic may have botched some things with CO, I personally feel the game was destined to fail because CoH/CoV was already as strong of a generic superhero game as one could hope for.
Star Trek IS a niche. Star Trek Online IS unique. No other space MMO will give a Star Trek fan what STO will. The same could not be said for CO.
Originally posted by Robsolf CO did have a potential niche, they just chose not to take advantage of it.
That's where I'm not sure you're correct. I think the "niche" they went after already had a very good game there that they would have to compete with. Nothing about "custom powers" can't be done in CoH/CoV already. While Cryptic may have botched some things with CO, I personally feel the game was destined to fail because CoH/CoV was already as strong of a generic superhero game as one could hope for.
Star Trek IS a niche. Star Trek Online IS unique. No other space MMO will give a Star Trek fan what STO will. The same could not be said for CO.
You cannot customize powers in CoH/CoV -- not in the way Champions the PnP game allows you to (the way Robsolf is talking about). Super Hero isn't a niche, it is a genre, like Fantasy is a genre. There's room within the Super Hero genre for niche games still -- as long as they aren't exact copies of one another. CO fault isn't that it's a Super Hero game; it's fault (one of many I guess) is that it's the SAME Super Hero game (from what I hear) as CoH/CoV.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
I don't know where this feedback came from, but it wasn't the beta forums. Like I said, I think they just took the easy way out of fixing the fleet alpha strikes instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. That issue was the only thing I had seen complaints about as far as PvE difficulty.
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
I was going to stay out of this thread, but I can't let this pass -- The NGE was not brought to SWG because of any complaints by the then current players, nor the MMO community at large. The NGE had design begun on it nearly a year before it launched, even while SWG was relatively solid. The NGE was brought about purely by Marketing and the Bean Counters who wanted to make SWG as accessible to non-mmo players as Blizzard had made WoW accessible to non-mmo players.
So yeah, there is no comparison between the NGE and what Cryptic is doing now.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled rants...
Yeah exactly not sure what you're arguing with me about, there's no secret the easier ( more accessible) something is the more people who will be drawn to it. I never said a word about current players, I was referring to the rest of the world, who don't get into something because it's to hard. There would be no reason to think cryptics changes were brought on by current players, as those players are from CB (only way was to pay and be a customer) it's the masses that were brought in by OB that brought about these changes, so really it is the same thing.
The difference being with SWG it was an already live game.
Not arguing with you -- simply pointing out a false comparison. Cryptic's recent changes have occurred because of obvious player feedback. Battles were too difficult. SWG:NGE occurred because SOE/LA were not happy with their subscription numbers and thought that they could increase those numbers by making SWG more accessible. Accessible != Easier. Accessible means just that: Accessible.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Originally posted by Cerion You cannot customize powers in CoH/CoV -- not in the way Champions the PnP game allows you to (the way Robsolf is talking about). Super Hero isn't a niche, it is a genre, like Fantasy is a genre. There's room within the Super Hero genre for niche games still -- as long as they aren't exact copies of one another. CO fault isn't that it's a Super Hero game; it's fault (one of many I guess) is that it's the SAME Super Hero game (from what I hear) as CoH/CoV.
I stand corrected. I know next to nothing about CO tbh.
The point I was making was that CO was a bad game choice to make as it already had a very strong game in the "genre". Star Trek doesn't. Star Wars Galaxies? EVE? While both "sci-fi", neither is STAR TREK. I used the term "niche" because I think TREK fans are select part of the sci-fi market - not all Sci-fi fans are Star Trek fans.
I have felt that it has become easier after the patch, but not by the extent the OP is talking about.
It is certainly easier in the beginning missions, but here's the thing: It is the first attempt at a proper star trek game and from that perspective is surprisingly true to its genre.
Frankly, if they didn't make it too easy, people on this forum that have 10 foot Luke Skywalker posters in their bedrooms would be complaining its too hard, and using that as a reason to tell people not to buy it.
My advice? Try it for yourself. You will dislike some aspects of it, but I can guarantee that STO has a lot of polish in some areas, especially compared to the hodge podge of MMOs out there.
They are only listening to their customers with this patch. That should tell you something.
Originally posted by Cerion You cannot customize powers in CoH/CoV -- not in the way Champions the PnP game allows you to (the way Robsolf is talking about). Super Hero isn't a niche, it is a genre, like Fantasy is a genre. There's room within the Super Hero genre for niche games still -- as long as they aren't exact copies of one another. CO fault isn't that it's a Super Hero game; it's fault (one of many I guess) is that it's the SAME Super Hero game (from what I hear) as CoH/CoV.
I stand corrected. I know next to nothing about CO tbh.
The point I was making was that CO was a bad game choice to make as it already had a very strong game in the "genre". Star Trek doesn't. Star Wars Galaxies? EVE? While both "sci-fi", neither is STAR TREK. I used the term "niche" because I think TREK fans are select part of the sci-fi market - not all Sci-fi fans are Star Trek fans.
No, I think you're right there. Star Trek Online would certainly be a niche game in the Sci-Fi genre -- that niche being Star Trek fans. However, I don't think STO did a very good job at targeting the Star Trek niche. My feeling is that Cryptic targeted MMO players who happen to also know what Star Trek is. That is a smaller subset of an already small niche -- a sub-niche if you will, lol.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Originally posted by Robsolf CO did have a potential niche, they just chose not to take advantage of it.
That's where I'm not sure you're correct. I think the "niche" they went after already had a very good game there that they would have to compete with. Nothing about "custom powers" can't be done in CoH/CoV already. While Cryptic may have botched some things with CO, I personally feel the game was destined to fail because CoH/CoV was already as strong of a generic superhero game as one could hope for.
Star Trek IS a niche. Star Trek Online IS unique. No other space MMO will give a Star Trek fan what STO will. The same could not be said for CO.
There's ALOT more that could be customized regarding powers that can't be done in CoX. Though I understand that they're planning on getting rid of many powerset restrictions which will probably help that alot. But the bottom line is, if I had a character and their powers in my head, there was a whole lot I couldn't do, that I could do even in an older game like Freedom Force.
Try to build Ghost Rider.
Johnny Blaze. Hellfire shotgun and all that...
Try to build Daredevil.
Heck, try to build Spiderman.
Try to build Cyclops.(yes, you can ALMOST do this in CO, but not CoX, and it's not just a eyebeam restriction)
But all that is probably better off in a new thread. My apologies for misdirecting this one...
I don't disagree with your last statement, with the exception of the CO bit. There were plenty of Champions people, and plenty of people that felt being unique goes WAY beyond your costume. People don't fantasize about being Nightcrawler because he's a blue elf.
Comments
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Do not buy Star Trek Online... I shall obey master, Imhotep, Imhotep, Imhotep
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Not every game needs over 1 million subs to be thriving or flourish or successful. Till the day servers close down you can discuss semantics all you like. And as far as XFIRE is concerned i don't even want to go there. Xfire represents only minority of gamers and this topic has been discussed to death before.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
So basically cryptic is going to be blizzard now all the sudden?
As soon as players complain they do something about it.
There's no grinding in WoW cause of that and the game is to easy atm way to easy to get rare items no challenge what so ever.
Reach max lvl in a week or less yay how fun.
Well if cryptic changes the balance cause of some players whining about it im not gona buy it cause they are to worried about losing money just like blizzard is.
WoW is so good cause they do what players asks them to the game is ran by the players not by the devs so sad to see.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
Sure it should. you can watch it grow in beta, then watch the populations increase at launch then quickly drop off as people realize the state the game is really in and how bad it is and leave before they have to start paying monthly fees.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Not every game needs over 1 million subs to be thriving or flourish or successful. Till the day servers close down you can discuss semantics all you like. And as far as XFIRE is concerned i don't even want to go there. Xfire represents only minority of gamers and this topic has been discussed to death before.
Ah, but there will BE no "server closedowns" until they cut the game off entirely. That's one of the handy bits to having a shard-based game. Unfortunately, it will be a bit of a shock to you folks that continue to be in denial.
I don't claim Xfire to be deadly accurate, but I'd say it's accurate enough that you can bet CO isn't doing as well as, say, Age of Conan(#54). And if you want to say AoC is thriving, then by all means, it's a free country.
But back on topic, STO will do fine, at least for a while. STO is FUN, CO isn't. The magic question will be, "fun for how long?".
Or maybe you considered the possibility that they are just tweaking the settings to see players reactions? there is still time for game to go live. The current change is not set in stone. A little perspective please people.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
That's a pretty decent sign, though much of that could be attributed to IP interest.
Let me restate my position: I think STO will do better than CO.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Nope. It isn't. Unless your purposely ignorant or don't know the definition of "thriving"
1. to prosper; be fortunate or successful.
2. to grow or develop vigorously; flourish
CO is doing none of those things. Mostly important, the population isn't growing. So, no matter how much rubbish they dump in, it's not thriving.
Surviving, yes. But, that's it.
Not every game needs over 1 million subs to be thriving or flourish or successful. Till the day servers close down you can discuss semantics all you like. And as far as XFIRE is concerned i don't even want to go there. Xfire represents only minority of gamers and this topic has been discussed to death before.
Ah, but there will BE no "server closedowns" until they cut the game off entirely. That's one of the handy bits to having a shard-based game. Unfortunately, it will be a bit of a shock to you folks that continue to be in denial.
I don't claim Xfire to be deadly accurate, but I'd say it's accurate enough that you can bet CO isn't doing as well as, say, Age of Conan(#54). And if you want to say AoC is thriving, then by all means, it's a free country.
But back on topic, STO will do fine, at least for a while. STO is FUN, CO isn't. The magic question will be, "fun for how long?".
I am sorry but i don't consider myself to be in denial only because i don't agree with you. Nobody knows exactly how many subs CO has, thats only known by Cryptic. That is why i hate to get into discussions like this. Everyone thinks their opinion is a fact when sadly only facts are with the companies running their MMOS.
Or maybe you considered the possibility that they are just tweaking the settings to see players reactions? there is still time for game to go live. Th current change is not set in stone. A little perspective please people.
What is done can be undone, I agree. But they'd better get it right before they go live, or paying customers will have "certain expectations". Making something easier always goes better with a player base than making something harder.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
I think the thing people are overlooking is the "niches" these games fall into. SWG is the only Star Wars MMO atm, just like STO will be the only Star Trek MMO. Fans of these IPs will be drawn to the games naturally. Even if EVE blows away STO's space combat, Star Trek fans will prefer to play STO because it's the universe THEY want to play in.
Champions Online, on the other hand, didn't have a niche - or I should say, they were trying to squeeze into one that had already been tapped successfully by CoH/CoV. Because of the massive head start CoH/CoV had, it's really no surprise to me that CO is failing. DCUO will have the DC hero's to draw in some people, but again, I think the market has already been drained by CoH/CoV.
Just look at all the "fantasy" MMOs to pour out after WoW. Every game had dwarfs, elves, gnomes and swords it seemed, yet none of them can even compare to WoW in terms of content and appeal to the masses. God...looking at WoW's numbers is mind boggling to me. It's no wonder every company under the sun is trying to tap their playerbase.
Cryptic may have misjudged the players looking for another superhero game, but Star Trek fans will be naturally drawn to this title.
I am sorry but i don't consider myself to be in denial only because i don't agree with you. Nobody knows exactly how many subs CO has, thats only known by Cryptic. That is why i hate to get into discussions like this. Everyone thinks their opinion is a fact when sadly only facts are with the companies running their MMOS.
You don't have to know how many subs CO has to know that the game is not thriving. You just have to open your eyes. Either way, I'm done talking about it. You'll believe what you want to believe.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
I just checked Xfire. STO is ranked #45. I don't think a game that is still in BETA should be ranked over games that are actually launched, but since you brought it up....
I think the thing people are overlooking is the "niches" these games fall into. SWG is the only Star Wars MMO atm, just like STO will be the only Star Trek MMO. Fans of these IPs will be drawn to the games naturally. Even if EVE blows away STO's space combat, Star Trek fans will prefer to play STO because it's the universe THEY want to play in.
Champions Online, on the other hand, didn't have a niche - or I should say, they were trying to squeeze into one that had already been tapped successfully by CoH/CoV. Because of the massive head start CoH/CoV had, it's really no surprise to me that CO is failing. DCUO will have the DC hero's to draw in some people, but again, I think the market has already been drained by CoH/CoV.
Just look at all the "fantasy" MMOs to pour out after WoW. Every game had dwarfs, elves, gnomes and swords it seemed, yet none of them can even compare to WoW in terms of content and appeal to the masses. God...looking at WoW's numbers is mind boggling to me. It's no wonder every company under the sun is trying to tap their playerbase.
Cryptic may have misjudged the players looking for another superhero game, but Star Trek fans will be naturally drawn to this title.
True talk.
This is not a game.
I think the thing people are overlooking is the "niches" these games fall into. SWG is the only Star Wars MMO atm, just like STO will be the only Star Trek MMO. Fans of these IPs will be drawn to the games naturally. Even if EVE blows away STO's space combat, Star Trek fans will prefer to play STO because it's the universe THEY want to play in.
Champions Online, on the other hand, didn't have a niche - or I should say, they were trying to squeeze into one that had already been tapped successfully by CoH/CoV. Because of the massive head start CoH/CoV had, it's really no surprise to me that CO is failing. DCUO will have the DC hero's to draw in some people, but again, I think the market has already been drained by CoH/CoV.
Just look at all the "fantasy" MMOs to pour out after WoW. Every game had dwarfs, elves, gnomes and swords it seemed, yet none of them can even compare to WoW in terms of content and appeal to the masses. God...looking at WoW's numbers is mind boggling to me. It's no wonder every company under the sun is trying to tap their playerbase.
Cryptic may have misjudged the players looking for another superhero game, but Star Trek fans will be naturally drawn to this title.
CO did have a potential niche, they just chose not to take advantage of it. The heart and soul of the PnP game was the customization of the powers, and the system that allowed you to do it. They could have taken cues from previous video games like Freedom Force to come up with ways to allow people to create their very own powers that were unique to their character. Instead, they game us the ability to be "Sharkhead, the Alien Werewolf Zombie with fairy wings" that has the same Force Blast that thousands of other characters have.
OK, I'll bite Tim, you're saying they scaled the difficulty way down so that some upper level content could be tested in a relatively short period of time. Sounds reasonable, did the patch notes say anything to this effect, or that they were expeimenting with game balance/difficulty?
But seriously, that sort of stuff needs to be done in closed beta, open beta should actually be the build they plan to go with on launch day plus any minor defects and tweaks thrown in.
Now if they go back to the old system they'll piss off all the players who liked the new easier difficulty level and they truly are in a no win scenario.
Well the alternative is that they plan a retardedly easy game. Solo play was already easy-mode, so now let's turn fleet play into solo play. That makes sense to any of you, really?
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
I was going to stay out of this thread, but I can't let this pass -- The NGE was not brought to SWG because of any complaints by the then current players, nor the MMO community at large. The NGE had design begun on it nearly a year before it launched, even while SWG was relatively solid. The NGE was brought about purely by Marketing and the Bean Counters who wanted to make SWG as accessible to non-mmo players as Blizzard had made WoW accessible to non-mmo players.
So yeah, there is no comparison between the NGE and what Cryptic is doing now.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled rants...
Yeah exactly not sure what you're arguing with me about, there's no secret the easier ( more accessible) something is the more people who will be drawn to it. I never said a word about current players, I was referring to the rest of the world, who don't get into something because it's to hard. There would be no reason to think cryptics changes were brought on by current players, as those players are from CB (only way was to pay and be a customer) it's the masses that were brought in by OB that brought about these changes, so really it is the same thing.
The difference being with SWG it was an already live game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's where I'm not sure you're correct. I think the "niche" they went after already had a very good game there that they would have to compete with. Nothing about "custom powers" can't be done in CoH/CoV already. While Cryptic may have botched some things with CO, I personally feel the game was destined to fail because CoH/CoV was already as strong of a generic superhero game as one could hope for.
Star Trek IS a niche. Star Trek Online IS unique. No other space MMO will give a Star Trek fan what STO will. The same could not be said for CO.
That's where I'm not sure you're correct. I think the "niche" they went after already had a very good game there that they would have to compete with. Nothing about "custom powers" can't be done in CoH/CoV already. While Cryptic may have botched some things with CO, I personally feel the game was destined to fail because CoH/CoV was already as strong of a generic superhero game as one could hope for.
Star Trek IS a niche. Star Trek Online IS unique. No other space MMO will give a Star Trek fan what STO will. The same could not be said for CO.
You cannot customize powers in CoH/CoV -- not in the way Champions the PnP game allows you to (the way Robsolf is talking about). Super Hero isn't a niche, it is a genre, like Fantasy is a genre. There's room within the Super Hero genre for niche games still -- as long as they aren't exact copies of one another. CO fault isn't that it's a Super Hero game; it's fault (one of many I guess) is that it's the SAME Super Hero game (from what I hear) as CoH/CoV.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
I was going to stay out of this thread, but I can't let this pass -- The NGE was not brought to SWG because of any complaints by the then current players, nor the MMO community at large. The NGE had design begun on it nearly a year before it launched, even while SWG was relatively solid. The NGE was brought about purely by Marketing and the Bean Counters who wanted to make SWG as accessible to non-mmo players as Blizzard had made WoW accessible to non-mmo players.
So yeah, there is no comparison between the NGE and what Cryptic is doing now.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled rants...
Yeah exactly not sure what you're arguing with me about, there's no secret the easier ( more accessible) something is the more people who will be drawn to it. I never said a word about current players, I was referring to the rest of the world, who don't get into something because it's to hard. There would be no reason to think cryptics changes were brought on by current players, as those players are from CB (only way was to pay and be a customer) it's the masses that were brought in by OB that brought about these changes, so really it is the same thing.
The difference being with SWG it was an already live game.
Not arguing with you -- simply pointing out a false comparison. Cryptic's recent changes have occurred because of obvious player feedback. Battles were too difficult. SWG:NGE occurred because SOE/LA were not happy with their subscription numbers and thought that they could increase those numbers by making SWG more accessible. Accessible != Easier. Accessible means just that: Accessible.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
I stand corrected. I know next to nothing about CO tbh.
The point I was making was that CO was a bad game choice to make as it already had a very strong game in the "genre". Star Trek doesn't. Star Wars Galaxies? EVE? While both "sci-fi", neither is STAR TREK. I used the term "niche" because I think TREK fans are select part of the sci-fi market - not all Sci-fi fans are Star Trek fans.
Uh oh...
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=76783
We know the game got a bit too easy
We're on it internally. Just giving an update.
So...there goes THAT conspiracy theory.
I have felt that it has become easier after the patch, but not by the extent the OP is talking about.
It is certainly easier in the beginning missions, but here's the thing: It is the first attempt at a proper star trek game and from that perspective is surprisingly true to its genre.
Frankly, if they didn't make it too easy, people on this forum that have 10 foot Luke Skywalker posters in their bedrooms would be complaining its too hard, and using that as a reason to tell people not to buy it.
My advice? Try it for yourself. You will dislike some aspects of it, but I can guarantee that STO has a lot of polish in some areas, especially compared to the hodge podge of MMOs out there.
They are only listening to their customers with this patch. That should tell you something.
If GW was an animal, which one would it be ?
I stand corrected. I know next to nothing about CO tbh.
The point I was making was that CO was a bad game choice to make as it already had a very strong game in the "genre". Star Trek doesn't. Star Wars Galaxies? EVE? While both "sci-fi", neither is STAR TREK. I used the term "niche" because I think TREK fans are select part of the sci-fi market - not all Sci-fi fans are Star Trek fans.
No, I think you're right there. Star Trek Online would certainly be a niche game in the Sci-Fi genre -- that niche being Star Trek fans. However, I don't think STO did a very good job at targeting the Star Trek niche. My feeling is that Cryptic targeted MMO players who happen to also know what Star Trek is. That is a smaller subset of an already small niche -- a sub-niche if you will, lol.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
That's where I'm not sure you're correct. I think the "niche" they went after already had a very good game there that they would have to compete with. Nothing about "custom powers" can't be done in CoH/CoV already. While Cryptic may have botched some things with CO, I personally feel the game was destined to fail because CoH/CoV was already as strong of a generic superhero game as one could hope for.
Star Trek IS a niche. Star Trek Online IS unique. No other space MMO will give a Star Trek fan what STO will. The same could not be said for CO.
There's ALOT more that could be customized regarding powers that can't be done in CoX. Though I understand that they're planning on getting rid of many powerset restrictions which will probably help that alot. But the bottom line is, if I had a character and their powers in my head, there was a whole lot I couldn't do, that I could do even in an older game like Freedom Force.
Try to build Ghost Rider.
Johnny Blaze. Hellfire shotgun and all that...
Try to build Daredevil.
Heck, try to build Spiderman.
Try to build Cyclops.(yes, you can ALMOST do this in CO, but not CoX, and it's not just a eyebeam restriction)
But all that is probably better off in a new thread. My apologies for misdirecting this one...
I don't disagree with your last statement, with the exception of the CO bit. There were plenty of Champions people, and plenty of people that felt being unique goes WAY beyond your costume. People don't fantasize about being Nightcrawler because he's a blue elf.