One thing I can give credit to Crytpic for is there unfailing ability to make very unpopular decisions and stick with them no matter how many subs they loose. It's almost as if they resent their player base and any input or criticism given.
STO was advertised as having unlimited skill points. That's not like WoW talents. What unlimited skill points did was allow you to eventually pilot any ship with your character (no need for alts). It also made you viable both in space and in ground combat. Essentially, they promised you'd be able to do everything in the game eventually (those who read will know this). The way the Skills are set up you'd be able to put points in to fly a crusier, a Bird of Prey, whatever. Plus, you could put points into weapons skills. Early Federation players use beams, then go to plasma, perhaps disruptors, and so forth, so they need to put points in those.
Now, with less than a week remaining, and not implementing the changes in open beta, they have changed all of that... in favor of store bought respecs. Money talks.
Don't be confused, unlimited skill points is what this game was designed for. And it's not overpowering if you look at the skills and the trees (and actually read). They don't give you more power, they allow you to fly different ships with the same efficiency. They allow you more freedom, as Cryptic promised. Cryptic broke that promise after people bought lifetime subscriptions (sure, there were suckers--but still).
As some posters in that link I gave put it:
1. "The game was designed from the ground up around the concept of no skill cap, which is why skills do not stack and build upon one another in a linear "specialization" fashion. The "lazy" thing is capping them arbitrarily so you can add levels in an expansion rather than add interesting content." Response: well I guess I must not have read because what I read states that they don't build on eachother in the fashion you suggest. Furthermore if its anything like beta theres more then enough skillpoints to actively give a character a good build.
2. "It's not that there is a cap that ****es people off. It's that for months Cryptic has gone on and on about the freedom of their capless system and how amazing it is, then 7 days before the live servers come up for headstart they say, "Oh, BTW, we capped skills." They didn't even come here straight away to tell us either, they let it slip in some interview a day earlier. Response: things change they probably saw people were overpowered in beta on later levels. It's also the fact that now we have a game built around a capless skill system with a cap on it, nothing is balanced for this, important mechanics of a capped system are missing. They have days to fix and balance this, and it's probably not going to be done in time. Response: from what I've seen its not built around a capless system do you have acutal numbers to support what your saying? 3. "But Storm, in many cases the Skill Point Cap will not even affect our end-game capabilities. From what I have seen (highest I got before the wipe was Commander 2 or 3 I think) we have plenty of Skill Points to maximize our focus skills. So this will probably not majorly affect those who choose wisely and don't waste any points outside their focus. But it will put a severe limit on those who may want to fly multiple types of ships or even just try something different. Re: How? like city of heroes you couldn't have multiple powersets it actively encourages you to try different builds with alt characters I see nothingh wrong with that considering there is 5 slots.
And as we go higher the skills seem to be more and more specialized and many aren't even useful if you don't have a particular piece of weaponry. With the cap we will be penalized for picking Plasma weapons early when we get a really cool drop in the late game of another type that we just happened not to have trained in. In the open skill point system we would be able to build up our skill to utilize what we found. Now we have to guess where to allocate a limited pool without any way of knowing what is ahead of us. Heck, as of right now I'm not even sure how many points we will have when we cap at Admiral 5.
Personally, I suspect that this change will result in LESS difference between people at the end-game since there will be much more focus on "optimal" builds and not wasting any skill points.
Yes people could theoretically max all the skills, but by the design of the game they could never _use_ all of their skills at once; way too many skills are rendered completely moot based on gear choices to allow that to happen. "
RE: not exactly it is not that moot because the consoles in spaceplay did not have that much of a change so basically I was seeing alot of people using gear or ships they shouldn't be using. In effect this makes the choice of class in the beginning more valuable as I will state below.
4. This person is referring to EVE in his STO post: "This means that I can hop in my mission Domi and run missions if I want... or go sit in my Hulk and mine up a bunch of stuff if I want or grab my Phobos/Deimos/Rook and go get blown up in some PVP if I want. It give me versatility and the ability to play the game how I want that day.
That's what I wanted in STO too... [as Cryptic promised] I wanted to go fooling around in my Sov one day and my Cerberus the next and my Luna another... If really nice plasma cannons dropped, I wanted to be able to use them. If the next time a really nice cobalt torp launcher drops and I want to swap it out because its stats are better than the photons I have, I want that ability. That's what I was looking forward to. That's what I was expecting.
Now I'm being told that I can either specialize in ground play... or space play... but only one ship really with one or two type of weapons. So if I'm flying a Sov, using Phasors and Quantum torps, and a plasma torp launcher drops... well... even if it has better stats, I wouldn't really want to use it, because my skills say I can only use Quantum torps. If my friends/guild/fleet say "Hey, need one more Escort for XYZ" I can't offer to help, because I'm a Sov pilot... Might as well just throw out the skills and implement a class system with a talent tree like WoW/GW/"every other MMO" because, as you say, that's just how things work." Re: not really ... most of the skills are not based off what weapons you choose quantum and photon are in the same skill and receive the same bonus from that skill. The photon vs quantum would just become a question of more damage or more DPS. I don't get why a certain class (yes we picked a class in the beginning) would go outside their target ship class. The only change I see is that a character won't be able to do everything in the game which they shouldn't by the ip. Captain Picard wasn't much of a tactical officerdidn't understand the inner worknigs of phasers and photon torpodoes it was a tool if all else failed. There is not that much content to warrant a unlimited skill pool and that is not cryptics fault because it came out with more content then most mmos at prerelease and thats without seeing the other sectors of space. Eve has a huge barrier of entry luckily they have a loyal fanbase as sandboxes are not profitable in market terms. STO will not be a sandbox it was never designed to be one. This change does not have as much effect as you say and one character should never be able to do everything. You will not have to pick whether to specialize at groundplay or space play you will have to choose specialities in both. I think this change is almost welcome in my eyes because at the end there was no point to the individual class choosing at the beginning. Tactial Officers were healers, Engineers were tactical based, Science officers were buffing. In the same vein a tactical officer was using science vessals, engineers were using escorts, and science officers were using cruisers. It didn'[t even make sense to bother making an informed choice at the beggining. This won't change that as people will still choose to be effectively another class but it will once again value specialities and encourage playing with more people then just your group of friends. 5. The Final Insult. Open Beta for Nothing.
Well the system that we have currently in beta wasn’t made for the cap, so it will have to be changed or will by nature be broken. Skills will have to be changed, cost changed, and/or the point scale itself will have to be tweaked. On top of that we have the respec system which they said they are trying to implement into the game. Of course all of this will have to be worked into the game when live as there won’t be a pushback on release and there isn’t time with days till head start. It is my *opinion* that there are ways to let us build out all our skills as we were told we could. At the very least it seems odd to me [that] it’s much easier to create a respec system, remake and/ or rebalance the skill system, and test all of that than it would be to leave this as they were and find a more palatable solution with that time.
Response: You sure about that? do you have acutal numbers to support your theory? I saw endgame players and they were ridicolously overpowered. If it was built for the cap I'm sure the company would balance it and as a player who specializes I was more effective then most people trying to multitask.
All this crying and whining about this is just plain pathetic. "Oh my, Cryptic won't let me build a savant god character so the game sucks!!!" Same garbage rants we all heard when they shut 'god mode' off in CO for release. This seems to happen in a lot of MMOs and it usually involves people having their "I win" buttons taken away..In this case it was taken away before they could be created, which is a good move IMO. It's here... They are going to do it whether a few whiners on the forum like it or not... So deal with it or don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Bren
I can't even believe that people are still complaining about this. Well actually it's really the same people over again just a different thread. But still, let it go already. No one is going to shed any tears over people losing the ability to pawn others in PVP.It's not all about you, it's about what is best for everyone.
Few whiners? lol Dude, wake up. Have you seen the official forums?
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Few whiners? lol Dude, wake up. Have you seen the official forums?
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
You are giving me advices? haha
You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why.
No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year.
You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious.
Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Few whiners? lol Dude, wake up. Have you seen the official forums?
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
You are giving me advices? haha
You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why.
No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year.
You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious.
Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
To be honest your the only one getting defensive and acting angry i wonder why lawl.
Few whiners? lol Dude, wake up. Have you seen the official forums?
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
You are giving me advices? haha
You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why.
No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year.
You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious.
Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
LOL... me? Angry? No... more like mildly amused by the ignorance of some people. Oh, yes... I blindly follow Cryptic. That must be why I voiced my concerns over no ship interiors both here and on the official forum rather vehemently. I've also had other concerns over the game that I voiced as well. The difference is I post my complaint and move on... I don't start a bloody personal crusade over it. Oh yes... the game is a huge failure and the server being full to bursting most of the time is just a fluke, right? LOL
The main complaint I see on the official forum lately is, "OMG Cryptic get your act together, I want to play but I can't log in because the server is always full!!!". Yeah, the game's a huge flop.
From the post you linked: "We have plans to release more content in the future, and at some point we'd like to raise the skill point cap, in the same way other titles have raised their level cap. The skill point cap is in place to ensure that we can not only add more content later on, but also to make sure that we can balance that content to provide you with a suitable challenge. With a skill point cap in place, we know what you're capable of, and we can balance the challenges in new content to provide you a suitable challenge. With no skill point cap, you'll not only be able to max out every skill in the game, but eventually, when we release new content, it will become trivial to you immediately. When we raise the level cap, you’d be max level right away. In the end, not having a skill point cap hurts the game, and consequently the amount of fun you guys can have."
What part of that is wrong, bad or unreasonable to you? I'm really curious if you see an actual issue here and what that issue is, because I can't see any possible reason to be complaining about this decision.
Read more. I'm not going to go searching for you.
Basically we are able to do much, much less in the game now. Did you even finish reading my thread? Cryptic is lying. They are taking the easy way out. Instead of content, they will give us Skill Point raises. READ, lol.
I think it is you that needs to read a little better. They clearly state in the post you quoted that the skill point increases will come when they release extra content. They also clearly state that they need to do this so when they do release more content it isn't instantly trivial to those that have maxed out all of the skills in the game. I think it is you that needs to work on their reading comprehension skills a little.
Bren
You make it sound like there will actually be any players left by the time they decide to add new content. Is it not completely obvious they are only interested in box sales and lifetime subs?
No, this is a MMO, not a single player game. In order to maintain the servers and continue development they need subscriptions. Box sales and Lifetime subs will barely cover the development costs to this point. The game can not possible succeed after launch without a player base and Cryptic knows this. I hear this argument all of the time about many MMOs and it seems more ignorant to me every time I hear it. MMOs need subs to survive, every MMO company knows this including Cryptic. This line of reasoning is just ignorant in the extreme.
Bren
I agree that MMOs need player retention to survive. I just don't think STO is going to achieve that. Sorry if you have not been around long enough to be able to tell a doomed game when you see one.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
LOL... me? Angry? No... more like mildly amused by the ignorance of some people. Oh, yes... I blindly follow Cryptic. That must be why I voiced my concerns over no ship interiors both here and on the official forum rather vehemently. I've also had other concerns over the game that I voiced as well. The difference is I post my complaint and move on... I don't start a bloody personal crusade over it. Oh yes... the game is a huge failure and the server being full to bursting most of the time is just a fluke, right? LOL
The main complaint I see on the official forum lately is, "OMG Cryptic get your act together, I want to play but I can't log in because the server is always full!!!". Yeah, the game's a huge flop.
Bren
"Nobody goes to that restaurant. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra
You are giving me advices? haha You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why. No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year. You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious. Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
LOL... me? Angry? No... more like mildly amused by the ignorance of some people. Oh, yes... I blindly follow Cryptic. That must be why I voiced my concerns over no ship interiors both here and on the official forum rather vehemently. I've also had other concerns over the game that I voiced as well. The difference is I post my complaint and move on... I don't start a bloody personal crusade over it. Oh yes... the game is a huge failure and the server being full to bursting most of the time is just a fluke, right? LOL
I remember those arguments very well.Mine were over the player economy and playable borg. But some choose to ignore those facts because only a blind fanboy could possibily love this game. There's no POSSIBLE way that anyone could disagree with their view unless they like shallow games.
The main complaint I see on the official forum lately is, "OMG Cryptic get your act together, I want to play but I can't log in because the server is always full!!!". Yeah, the game's a huge flop.
Bren
That and the level of difficulty. A lot of people are still complaining about the game being too easy while others think it is too hard. Once the game launches it will be Klingon players vs. the Federation players over PVE content and who has the better skills. Pretty much the same issues that every MMORPG has to deal with. You have the usual spammers who like to post the same tripe in every forum, but many of them will be gone once you have to buy a subscription to the game to post. After that happens I'll be spending more of my time in the official forums and just poke in here every now and then.
Comments
One thing I can give credit to Crytpic for is there unfailing ability to make very unpopular decisions and stick with them no matter how many subs they loose. It's almost as if they resent their player base and any input or criticism given.
I can't even believe that people are still complaining about this. Well actually it's really the same people over again just a different thread. But still, let it go already. No one is going to shed any tears over people losing the ability to pawn others in PVP.It's not all about you, it's about what is best for everyone.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
You are giving me advices? haha
You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why.
No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year.
You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious.
Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
You are giving me advices? haha
You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why.
No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year.
You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious.
Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
To be honest your the only one getting defensive and acting angry
i wonder why lawl.
Yes I visit the Official forums daily and there are only a very few threads discussing this with the same handful of people whining about it in every single one. The vast majority of the posts in those threads are from people giving the same advice I just gave you however... Learn to deal with it or leave... Those are your only two choices at this point, sorry.
Bren
You are giving me advices? haha
You sound somewhat angry, I wonder why.
No no.. you are just blindly defending Cryptic no matter what they do, and you been doing it for the last year.
You are not fooling anyone though the game is a mega flop and it's painfully obvious.
Only people that will play it for more then a month or two are the naive kids who already bought lifetime subs believing in the lies Cryptic served them with.
LOL... me? Angry? No... more like mildly amused by the ignorance of some people. Oh, yes... I blindly follow Cryptic. That must be why I voiced my concerns over no ship interiors both here and on the official forum rather vehemently. I've also had other concerns over the game that I voiced as well. The difference is I post my complaint and move on... I don't start a bloody personal crusade over it. Oh yes... the game is a huge failure and the server being full to bursting most of the time is just a fluke, right? LOL
The main complaint I see on the official forum lately is, "OMG Cryptic get your act together, I want to play but I can't log in because the server is always full!!!". Yeah, the game's a huge flop.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Read more. I'm not going to go searching for you.
Basically we are able to do much, much less in the game now. Did you even finish reading my thread? Cryptic is lying. They are taking the easy way out. Instead of content, they will give us Skill Point raises. READ, lol.
I think it is you that needs to read a little better. They clearly state in the post you quoted that the skill point increases will come when they release extra content. They also clearly state that they need to do this so when they do release more content it isn't instantly trivial to those that have maxed out all of the skills in the game. I think it is you that needs to work on their reading comprehension skills a little.
Bren
You make it sound like there will actually be any players left by the time they decide to add new content. Is it not completely obvious they are only interested in box sales and lifetime subs?
No, this is a MMO, not a single player game. In order to maintain the servers and continue development they need subscriptions. Box sales and Lifetime subs will barely cover the development costs to this point. The game can not possible succeed after launch without a player base and Cryptic knows this. I hear this argument all of the time about many MMOs and it seems more ignorant to me every time I hear it. MMOs need subs to survive, every MMO company knows this including Cryptic. This line of reasoning is just ignorant in the extreme.
Bren
I agree that MMOs need player retention to survive. I just don't think STO is going to achieve that. Sorry if you have not been around long enough to be able to tell a doomed game when you see one.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
LOL... me? Angry? No... more like mildly amused by the ignorance of some people. Oh, yes... I blindly follow Cryptic. That must be why I voiced my concerns over no ship interiors both here and on the official forum rather vehemently. I've also had other concerns over the game that I voiced as well. The difference is I post my complaint and move on... I don't start a bloody personal crusade over it. Oh yes... the game is a huge failure and the server being full to bursting most of the time is just a fluke, right? LOL
The main complaint I see on the official forum lately is, "OMG Cryptic get your act together, I want to play but I can't log in because the server is always full!!!". Yeah, the game's a huge flop.
Bren
"Nobody goes to that restaurant. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra
LOL... me? Angry? No... more like mildly amused by the ignorance of some people. Oh, yes... I blindly follow Cryptic. That must be why I voiced my concerns over no ship interiors both here and on the official forum rather vehemently. I've also had other concerns over the game that I voiced as well. The difference is I post my complaint and move on... I don't start a bloody personal crusade over it. Oh yes... the game is a huge failure and the server being full to bursting most of the time is just a fluke, right? LOL
I remember those arguments very well.Mine were over the player economy and playable borg. But some choose to ignore those facts because only a blind fanboy could possibily love this game. There's no POSSIBLE way that anyone could disagree with their view unless they like shallow games.
The main complaint I see on the official forum lately is, "OMG Cryptic get your act together, I want to play but I can't log in because the server is always full!!!". Yeah, the game's a huge flop.
Bren
That and the level of difficulty. A lot of people are still complaining about the game being too easy while others think it is too hard. Once the game launches it will be Klingon players vs. the Federation players over PVE content and who has the better skills. Pretty much the same issues that every MMORPG has to deal with. You have the usual spammers who like to post the same tripe in every forum, but many of them will be gone once you have to buy a subscription to the game to post. After that happens I'll be spending more of my time in the official forums and just poke in here every now and then.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft