my best friend is beta testing STO, said it was awful and told me all the reasons why.
the one that made me laugh the most: your starship will bounce off a planet it runs into like a bumper.
They could have done some cool stuff based on the shows (even if they didn't allow collisions with planets). Go into the right type of atmosphere or part of the atmosphere and it becomes much, much harder for your ship to be detected; maneuvers near stars and causing solar flares, heat/radiation damage to the shields/hull, and so forth; and other neat environmental interactions. Instead you can't even fly from a planet to its star without going through instances, and forget all environmental effects. Oh well.
Well I visited the Briar patch and had to avoid the clouds of dangerous gas which explode if weapons fire is anywhere near them, I'd call that an environmental effect.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Maybe you should tell us why its so fantastic then? There are alot of posts around here staing why its not fantastic so it would be interesting to hear anything good about STO other than "ITS STAR TREK". Being cheap, shallow, repetetive and still, more expensive than other MMOs is not looking very good.
The explain why this game is cheap, shallow and repetitive, so far from the look of the videos and features promised for launch it seems to be a game quite ahead from whats available right now.
I personally enjoy the game. I played in CB and OB. It has problems, but the bottom line is that I have fun everytime I log in. I can''t say that about a lot of the other MMO's I play any more.
The biggest problem Cryptic made with STO is the first 10 levels. They made a 20 hour tutorial. Every player is close to the same until you get your first real ship at level 11. Missions are bland at the start because they are trying to teach players the game. I think they went overboard with this because of the fact that many ST fans are not MMO players. But it was a big mistake and leaves a bad impression for the experienced MMO paleyrs.
The game gets better the longer you play. Things get more complcated with your Captain skills and Choice of Bridge Officer skills as well as choice of ship class. Now with the new larger group fleet actions and end game raid-i-sodes they call them. The game will have more to do at end game. As well as Klingon PvE getting addresed in the next 45 days or so.
The bottom line is that the game is very fun for me. I can not speak for anyone else, but I will be there for a long time.
Have you ever played EvE online? If you are complaining about 20h of tutorial gameplay then by all meens go an try EvE, its just a 2h tutorial were you learn absolutely nothing, the pve is pretty much rinse and repeat the same set of missions over and over for you to get into you desired ship, provided you invest time for the learning skills required to fly it and then to fit it and then hoping that your first trip into lowsecurity space or 0.0 doesn't end in your first enconter with a gatecamp were a group from 1 to 100 proceed to pop your ship and your pod in less than the blink of an eye and there you are back at a station looking at your pod without ship and hard earned isk.
Point is, don't complain about the tuturial if it really helps.
Now for other replies...
All i am seeing about this game so far is alot of people that heard from others that the games was this and that, why don't you try it yourselves and give the game a break? How many games come out these days finished or without bugs i can remeber about 1 or 2 and they are not even MMOs, sad state of affairs between gaming companies and the player comunity but hey its hoping that some of the titles coming out only improve.
The starttrek universe is too large to cope with in a single first launch so i believe it would be good to leave cryptic launch the thing and making adjustments ( and introducing content ) as the game grows.
Totally agree, it's a fantastic game and the most fun MMO out there. Some people get too wrapped up in the forum wars and forget these games are supposed to be about enjoying them and having fun. Play the game and enjoy it, simple as that.
And some play the game and HATE it.. It works both ways
Except nobody's forcing people to play it, if you hate it then why play it? Better still, if you hate it, why continuously bash it on these forums? Cryptic doesn't read these forums. It really serves no purpose other than to keep you mad.
I just feel sad for those of you who hate the game, because me and so many other people are having so much fun playing it. It's a shame that you can't share in the enjoyment.
Can't wait to jump in later today!
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This game is shaping up to one hell of game, ofc it will have issues at launch etc like any other MMO but that is just fluff.
If Cryptic continue the way they are going they will have a big hit and very successful game.
Game launches this evening and i for one cannot wait, i have cancelled all my other subs and got a life sub here. There is no ohter MMO like this on the market so it will be a fresh and new experience after playing so many fantasy based MMOs over the past few years.
All I know is that Ive had fun playing the beta (when I could get in or stay in). Aside from the bugs I thought the ground combat was fun even though it was repetative. I like that they added the tricorder function to point you in the right direction. The space combat is the best part. Of course I would love to be able to play from the bridge,but thats not what this game is about. It reminds me of the Armada game wich is not a bad thing. I like that when you go into a mission it can auto group you so you dont have to go looking for one. All in all Im thinking of a life time sub on this. I know there are alot of haters wich is fine. I respect that you dont like this game,but let others who do alone. Theres so many games out there for people to enjoy. We dont have to agree with wich ones are the best and fun.
Have you ever played EvE online? If you are complaining about 20h of tutorial gameplay then by all meens go an try EvE, its just a 2h tutorial were you learn absolutely nothing, the pve is pretty much rinse and repeat the same set of missions over and over for you to get into you desired ship, provided you invest time for the learning skills required to fly it and then to fit it and then hoping that your first trip into lowsecurity space or 0.0 doesn't end in your first enconter with a gatecamp were a group from 1 to 100 proceed to pop your ship and your pod in less than the blink of an eye and there you are back at a station looking at your pod without ship and hard earned isk.
Point is, don't complain about the tuturial if it really helps.
Now for other replies...
All i am seeing about this game so far is alot of people that heard from others that the games was this and that, why don't you try it yourselves and give the game a break? How many games come out these days finished or without bugs i can remeber about 1 or 2 and they are not even MMOs, sad state of affairs between gaming companies and the player comunity but hey its hoping that some of the titles coming out only improve.
The starttrek universe is too large to cope with in a single first launch so i believe it would be good to leave cryptic launch the thing and making adjustments ( and introducing content ) as the game grows. [/quote] I tried EVE twice with a 14 day trial. I just could not get into the game at all. It is just not my style of gaming.
As far as the tutorial and the 20 hours. I think I explained it badly. I am saying that the first 20 hours are bland to many MMO players. There is not a lot of the RPG elements in the first 10 levels. Not much thinking involved once you understand tactics in space combat and ground combat.
Basically it is a bad first impression. If players don't put in more than 20 hours before rage quiting and uninstalling the game. They will miss what the game can really do at higher levels and how much better it becomes. This leads to bad reviews and a needless decrease in subs so to a lack of understanding of the game mechanics.
I am a lifetime sub. I am sold and will be playing along time. I just think it was a bad move to not define a players play style until 20 hours into the game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
What I suggest is, if you think STO is such a great game then post a review. I promise to read the review and if I think the game is worth playing I will give it another chance (didn't like beta)
While my FE review is far from perfect I show why I think it is a top notch game. If you think STO is then maybe you should post a review. Otherwise stop saying how awesome the game is as NO ONE is really going to believe you.
I will post a COMPLETE review next Friday to recap what happened and what issues exist or were resolved. This will be POST headstart and POST retail Release. This you can get an complete overview of what A) the launch was like and what the gameplay is now. (Just in the event of a Release Day Super change like CO had)
Funny thing, you mention FE.... which for me, was a total bust after 1 month and more glitches then I could count. But whatever makes you happy is what you should play.
I will post a COMPLETE review next Friday to recap what happened and what issues exist or were resolved. This will be POST headstart and POST retail Release. This you can get an complete overview of what A) the launch was like and what the gameplay is now. (Just in the event of a Release Day Super change like CO had)
Funny thing, you mention FE.... which for me, was a total bust after 1 month and more glitches then I could count. But whatever makes you happy is what you should play.
I seem to recall those complaints as well with FE. Consistency is very rare to come by on this board.
Soon as I have played a few days I'll post my own review. I know that those that have been bashing this game since before BETA will just use it as a nitpicking session, but at least those who actually care about what the game is really like will have a better perspective before purchasing it.
I will post a COMPLETE review next Friday to recap what happened and what issues exist or were resolved. This will be POST headstart and POST retail Release. This you can get an complete overview of what A) the launch was like and what the gameplay is now. (Just in the event of a Release Day Super change like CO had)
Funny thing, you mention FE.... which for me, was a total bust after 1 month and more glitches then I could count. But whatever makes you happy is what you should play.
I seem to recall those complaints as well with FE. Consistency is very rare to come by on this board.
Soon as I have played a few days I'll post my own review. I know that those that have been bashing this game since before BETA will just use it as a nitpicking session, but at least those who actually care about what the game is really like will have a better perspective before purchasing it.
I welcome another review from someone playing the game. I feel that is what most of this forum has lacked. More people need to try something for a period of time rather than jump on a bandwagon. (ie, if you skip the ingame tutorials, you get no sympathy from anyone when you complain the controls are too hard and using second hand info to make your major arguements doesn't sell me on your points)
Quite simple for me, it's fun to play. I see no reason to justify this to anyone, others who enjoy the game will play and have fun as well, while the trolls have fun bashing the game on any forum/blog/media they can find to anyone who will listen. Everyone wins
QFT.
I couldn't agree with this more also. I judge a game by 1 simple premise, is it fun? To me that answer is yes... I do have fun playing STO. Do I have issues with some of the things that are or aren't in the game? Sure I do but that doesn't change the fact that I had fun playing the beta and will play it at launch. How long I continue to play will be highly dependent on when the game stops being fun for me. Will that be in a month? 6 months? a year? ... I don't know at this point nor do I care quite frankly.
Bren
Bren,
I absolutely agree with your premise. Whether a person enjoys a game or not is really the only true measure of value for an entertainment product. The thing about that is.... "fun" is a very subjective measure....one persons fun is another persons horror show. Without knowing a great deal about the individuals tastes and why they found it fun...it doesn't provide any particular useful information about whether YOU will find the game fun as well..... which is what anyone who hasn't already tried the game will really want to know.
So I find posts that are generaly the equivalent of "This game is awesome" or "This game sux" without any further elaboration as to why to be kinda pointless. It's kinda like posting "I like vanilla" ......... I mean that's great, and it's perfectly fine that a person does...but what's the point posting that on a discussion board? There is not really much room to discuss anything there.... about all you'll get is another person with different tastes coming along posting "vanilla sux".
No one should feel obligated to have to justify why they like what they like.....but if a person wants to engage in a usefull discussion about a game (this IS a discussion board after-all) it helps to actualy provide some more details about what they liked/didn't like about the product.
From my perspective, I had a fair amount of information about STO before I went into OB.... so I went in with very low expectations. I was actualy pleasantly surprised once I played a little bit.... they put together a better game then I thought they would going in.... I still don't think it was a very good game....but it wasn't horrible either. I had some fun....but I just can't see it being worth the price of a subscription. I can't see myself playing STO often enough to be worth the cost of a monthly fee.
It would make a good candidate for something like a Station Pass (IMO), though..... or maybe some sort of "Pay as you go model".... so if you ended up playing only a couple of hours a week.... rather then paying like $15 a month for unlimited play.... you could opt to pay 25 cents an hour or something like that.... which would cover only the amount of hours that you actualy ended up playing..... which in my case, I couldn't see being much more then a few hours a month....after the first little bit.
I wonder if publishers would consider a model like that....there certainly are some downsides to it.... but it would also be a way to get some revenue from gamers that were undecided about your product...and weren't convinced that they would be playing it enough to make a subscription worthwhile....but still might play it a little if offered. Of course, they'd have to price it so that a monthly sub would be a good value purchase for anyone that played on anything more then a very casual basis... or give some other perk for subbing.
Fair enough. Although I too believe that 'what is fun' is highly subjective and I can only speak for myself I will give it a shot.
I really liked the ship combat and the way that positioning, maneuvering and shield manipulation was just as important as how big your weapons were. I like being able to swap out different combos of Weapons/shields/consoles on the fly to see what works best for you. Also I liked the fact that the particular 'shiny' loot was somewhat rare so when you did get a special piece of gear for your ship or avatar it seemed more 'epic' in a way(This is something severely lacking in newer MMO as purple and greens drop from almost every mob).
I also liked the fast pace nature of the ground combat although I did feel it needs some serious improvements. I still had fun on the away missions and the variety of locations is pretty staggering. I did see some duplication especially with ship interiors but they were nicely broken up by a lot of differing planetscapes in between. I also liked the fact that it didn't 'hand hold' you nearly as much as most games in the post WoW era do. There was no big glowing arrow over your head telling you exactly where to go and you actually had to look for stuff on your own. This actually gave me fond memories of EQ back when it was still good(The days before Luclin/PoP).
I loved the auto grouping features and the fleet/encounter open missions. The fact that you could fly in at any time and be a part of a somewhat epic battle with other players is great. The auto grouping feature was good too as it made some of the harder missions more fun to be playing with others all working toward a common goal. This was touched on in CO but STO got it absolutely right on the money.
Now for the not so good...
The social aspects of the game leave a whole lot to be desired. For one integrated voice chat I would think would be a no-brainer for a game like STO. There is just so much going on in space combat that there is no way a person without 3 hands could play and type messages at the same time. Also they really need more social activities at places like Earth Space Dock, Vulcan, Risa, K7, DS9 and so forth. Even if it was just some stupid little mini-games that you could play against an AI or Human player would have been a nice touch and given people a real reason to visit these places.
The Iconic planets need much bigger maps with missions and such you can do there. Just the fact that you can't even beam down to Earth was a huge oversight on Cryptic's part. These places are just small maps with absolutely no reason to go there after you visit them once as there is absolutely nothing to do on any of them.
Ground combat needs improvement. Just a cover mechanic would add a lot to the feel and flow of it. Although I do like the BO AI for skills and such their pathing is absolutely horrible. I don't now how many times I would be half way through an away mission and realize I was one person short because they were hung up on a doorway or a rock back near the beam in spot.
The last thing is the Klingon faction is seriously unfinished. After playing the Fed side till level 10 or so I found it very difficult being immersed in my Klingon character. I tried but there was very little 'Klingon' about it. I didn't play my Klingon after they did the UI patch so it may have improved somewhat but the faction is still severely lacking in content just the same. This is probably STOs greatest shortcoming and I'm sure they will get torn apart by many professional reviewers over this after launch.
Overall I had a very enjoyable experience playing and do look forward to launch. They will get my business for a while at least. They had better finish the game however and not try any of the nickle 'n dime crap they are pulling with CO or I will be out of there fairly quick. I'll admit I'm fairly leery of Cryptic after the crap they pulled with CO a couple of days ago so I'll be watching them closely from this point on.
Bren
Bren,
Thanks for the input. My own take on some of the points you raised. Space combat I thought was ok but not great. It was basicaly "tactics lite" as far as I was concerned. On the plus side...it DID actualy feel alot like the space combat in the shows/movies. On the minus side....it didn't actualy make for a very "deep" game in terms of strategy (IMO). I'm coming from a war-gamer background so that's something that would have hooked me. Given the pacing, I don't think they could have added much more depth to it and kept it manage-able for a single player. Well not exactly jet-fighters, the combat seems to be fairly fast paced...and I think it's pretty much all a single player can do to manage the controls he's been given at that pace. So difficult to do much more strategy then that and work the controls at the same time.
What I would have prefered is if they had slowed down the pace of combat in general and added more depth to it. I also would have prefered had the reduced the raw numbers of enemy ships you faced but made each individual enemy much more of a challenge. Somehow it just didn't feel right to be plowing through dozens of enemy starships an hour with my light cruiser (including enemy battleships). I would have much prefered something like a light cruiser on light cruiser duel taking 20 minutes for one ship to eventualy outmanuver and defeat it's opponents.
I was dissapointed that the combat was more (2.5 D) submarine style rather then full 3D movement with pitch, yaw and roll controls. I think that was probably more due to the limitations of the CO engine they used rather then a purposeful design decision on thier part. Would have liked to have seen different ranges/accuracy on the weapons systems as well..... and something like ECM/ECCM and more on the stealth/detection front. They could have also provided better combat feed-back on the AI.... something like an aspect guage...as well as more info on the radar (like showing, shield facings/weapon arcs and maybe putting tags on the enemy sensor contacts there). Would have been fun to see more varied terrain/environmental effects as well. The Briar Patch was cool (and painfull) but it was the only mission out of dozens that I played that had anything like space environmental effects.
Ground Combat - For some reason I actualy enjoyed more then space combat....but it was not very well done. There were some tactics in terms of positioning BO's and the flank & expose/exploit mechanics as well as firing off special abilities. However games like BattleField, MassEffect or WWII Online or even Fallen Earth make STO's ground combat look sad in comparison.
The biggest thing missing was a cover system.....using terrain objects as cover....I think any modern-futuristic "shooter" type combat game REALLY needs to address that aspect if they want the game to FEEL right. The other thing I was pretty dissapointed with was the short ranges involved...even my "Sniper Phaser Rifle" had a max range of like 30 meters...I mean really...I personaly could throw a rock and hit something at that range....but I can't fire a rifle at it? Even taking into account concessions for game-play sake....this still felt WAY too short.
You're right about the integrated voice chat....but I'm assuming people who want to fly together will just use Vent like in other games....so not so critical.
I really didn't like the "auto-group" feature...It was an interesting concept...but in practice...half the time it would auto-group me with some-one who was AFK or just being a dweeb. I suppose this was the only way they could do something like PUGS with thier "everything is an instance" approach....but I think it throws into harsh light just how limiting that approach is in terms of social interaction. On the other hand...the Fleet Actions....WERE alot of fun....and the cooperative play there added alot to the game that would have been missing otherwise.
In general, I thought the content was pretty boring/repetitive.....although there were a few better moments in there. I really disliked the "everything is an instance/mission" style of game-play. I would have vastly prefered them making large open zones with missions in them....ones that you could visit any time you like.....and where other players were on the map with you. Even if they had to do something like "public instances" ala Tabula Rasa to limit the number of players on a map at any one time I would have thought it was better.
On the PLUS side....
I liked alot what they did with character/ship customization and advancement. The skill points to purchase skill ranks system really works well...I vastly prefer that over the class/level system that most games use. I also thought it was very neat fitting your ship out with different systems...and being able to choose from different ship types/classes. If anything I would have loved to have seen even more variety of choices there.
BO's were also really fun. I still would vastly prefer a player-crew option..... but what they did with BO's was quite alot of fun...They really did feel like they started to take on thier own personalties....and acquiring, training and customizing them was a neat feature of game-play. I also liked how they used them in the breifing/communication windows during missions....that made them feel more "alive". Would have been great to have player-crews AND BO's both.
I also did like the over-all "feel" they gave the Federation....I can see how it would royaly PO some Trek fans.....as thier version of the Federation was far more "Sands of Iwo Jima" then anything presented in the series/movies.....but I never really got into the more "touchy-feely" aspects of Trek...and always found myself wishing it had a harder edge...so for me, that aspect was actualy welcome in the game.
Anyways.....not enough there to make me want to buy the game.....but it did turn out better then I expected it to be.
This game has made some great strides and keeps getting better and better each patch. Sure people will knock this or that, but all in all, those who find games like WoW boring and repeative, at least the concepts and gameplay in here make you think less like your playing a standard MMO and more like your playing a tactical space sim. Give it a try for a month before you just bash. You would be surprised at the changes and improvements.
glad you like it , but it is way to much of a button masher for me, good for carpal tunnel,, and it took me 30 min to get into a PvP arena which is absurd, long loading times , it needs alot of improvement hopefully about 5 years down the road
Well, you just described just about every game.. Hitting buttons is how we humans interact with computers.. lol
As for the loading times.. Those will probably go down as the players advance and spread out..
This happends with every MMO..
But to me, it just sounds like you don't enjoy it in general, which in it's self is fine.. Not everyone is going to like every game..
I just find that calling any game a button masher is kind of ironic.. :P
This game has made some great strides and keeps getting better and better each patch. Sure people will knock this or that, but all in all, those who find games like WoW boring and repeative, at least the concepts and gameplay in here make you think less like your playing a standard MMO and more like your playing a tactical space sim. Give it a try for a month before you just bash. You would be surprised at the changes and improvements.
glad you like it , but it is way to much of a button masher for me, good for carpal tunnel,, and it took me 30 min to get into a PvP arena which is absurd, long loading times , it needs alot of improvement hopefully about 5 years down the road
Well, you just described just about every game.. Hitting buttons is how we humans interact with computers.. lol
As for the loading times.. Those will probably go down as the players advance and spread out..
This happends with every MMO..
But to me, it just sounds like you don't enjoy it in general, which in it's self is fine.. Not everyone is going to like every game..
I just find that calling any game a button masher is kind of ironic.. :P
I was comparing it to games like Vanguard, even wow, of course SWG space game is a button masher also, and what is the story with taking so long to get into PvP is this just because of open beta or what, I actually enjoyed parts of the game I just feel space can be improved
Comments
They could have done some cool stuff based on the shows (even if they didn't allow collisions with planets). Go into the right type of atmosphere or part of the atmosphere and it becomes much, much harder for your ship to be detected; maneuvers near stars and causing solar flares, heat/radiation damage to the shields/hull, and so forth; and other neat environmental interactions. Instead you can't even fly from a planet to its star without going through instances, and forget all environmental effects. Oh well.
Well I visited the Briar patch and had to avoid the clouds of dangerous gas which explode if weapons fire is anywhere near them, I'd call that an environmental effect.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The explain why this game is cheap, shallow and repetitive, so far from the look of the videos and features promised for launch it seems to be a game quite ahead from whats available right now.
Have you ever played EvE online? If you are complaining about 20h of tutorial gameplay then by all meens go an try EvE, its just a 2h tutorial were you learn absolutely nothing, the pve is pretty much rinse and repeat the same set of missions over and over for you to get into you desired ship, provided you invest time for the learning skills required to fly it and then to fit it and then hoping that your first trip into lowsecurity space or 0.0 doesn't end in your first enconter with a gatecamp were a group from 1 to 100 proceed to pop your ship and your pod in less than the blink of an eye and there you are back at a station looking at your pod without ship and hard earned isk.
Point is, don't complain about the tuturial if it really helps.
Now for other replies...
All i am seeing about this game so far is alot of people that heard from others that the games was this and that, why don't you try it yourselves and give the game a break? How many games come out these days finished or without bugs i can remeber about 1 or 2 and they are not even MMOs, sad state of affairs between gaming companies and the player comunity but hey its hoping that some of the titles coming out only improve.
The starttrek universe is too large to cope with in a single first launch so i believe it would be good to leave cryptic launch the thing and making adjustments ( and introducing content ) as the game grows.
And some play the game and HATE it.. It works both ways
Except nobody's forcing people to play it, if you hate it then why play it? Better still, if you hate it, why continuously bash it on these forums? Cryptic doesn't read these forums. It really serves no purpose other than to keep you mad.
I just feel sad for those of you who hate the game, because me and so many other people are having so much fun playing it. It's a shame that you can't share in the enjoyment.
Can't wait to jump in later today!
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This game is shaping up to one hell of game, ofc it will have issues at launch etc like any other MMO but that is just fluff.
If Cryptic continue the way they are going they will have a big hit and very successful game.
Game launches this evening and i for one cannot wait, i have cancelled all my other subs and got a life sub here. There is no ohter MMO like this on the market so it will be a fresh and new experience after playing so many fantasy based MMOs over the past few years.
am i dreaming here!or this game look 10X better on ati then nvidia!
All I know is that Ive had fun playing the beta (when I could get in or stay in). Aside from the bugs I thought the ground combat was fun even though it was repetative. I like that they added the tricorder function to point you in the right direction. The space combat is the best part. Of course I would love to be able to play from the bridge,but thats not what this game is about. It reminds me of the Armada game wich is not a bad thing. I like that when you go into a mission it can auto group you so you dont have to go looking for one. All in all Im thinking of a life time sub on this. I know there are alot of haters wich is fine. I respect that you dont like this game,but let others who do alone. Theres so many games out there for people to enjoy. We dont have to agree with wich ones are the best and fun.
Have you ever played EvE online? If you are complaining about 20h of tutorial gameplay then by all meens go an try EvE, its just a 2h tutorial were you learn absolutely nothing, the pve is pretty much rinse and repeat the same set of missions over and over for you to get into you desired ship, provided you invest time for the learning skills required to fly it and then to fit it and then hoping that your first trip into lowsecurity space or 0.0 doesn't end in your first enconter with a gatecamp were a group from 1 to 100 proceed to pop your ship and your pod in less than the blink of an eye and there you are back at a station looking at your pod without ship and hard earned isk.
Point is, don't complain about the tuturial if it really helps.
Now for other replies...
All i am seeing about this game so far is alot of people that heard from others that the games was this and that, why don't you try it yourselves and give the game a break? How many games come out these days finished or without bugs i can remeber about 1 or 2 and they are not even MMOs, sad state of affairs between gaming companies and the player comunity but hey its hoping that some of the titles coming out only improve.
The starttrek universe is too large to cope with in a single first launch so i believe it would be good to leave cryptic launch the thing and making adjustments ( and introducing content ) as the game grows.
[/quote]
I tried EVE twice with a 14 day trial. I just could not get into the game at all. It is just not my style of gaming.
As far as the tutorial and the 20 hours. I think I explained it badly. I am saying that the first 20 hours are bland to many MMO players. There is not a lot of the RPG elements in the first 10 levels. Not much thinking involved once you understand tactics in space combat and ground combat.
Basically it is a bad first impression. If players don't put in more than 20 hours before rage quiting and uninstalling the game. They will miss what the game can really do at higher levels and how much better it becomes. This leads to bad reviews and a needless decrease in subs so to a lack of understanding of the game mechanics.
I am a lifetime sub. I am sold and will be playing along time. I just think it was a bad move to not define a players play style until 20 hours into the game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I agree with the OP and all the other Cryptic employees who took the day off to hype their game (I KID!!!)!!!
Loving it so far, pissed Head Start didn't start sooner tbh.
What I suggest is, if you think STO is such a great game then post a review.
I promise to read the review and if I think the game is worth playing I will give it another chance (didn't like beta)
Currently I am playing Fallen Earth and did a review here www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/266869/Fallen-Earth-Review-12210.html
I expect any such review of STO to look at least as professional as that, which non-stock in game screenshots.
While my FE review is far from perfect I show why I think it is a top notch game.
If you think STO is then maybe you should post a review.
Otherwise stop saying how awesome the game is as NO ONE is really going to believe you.
I will post a COMPLETE review next Friday to recap what happened and what issues exist or were resolved. This will be POST headstart and POST retail Release. This you can get an complete overview of what A) the launch was like and
what the gameplay is now. (Just in the event of a Release Day Super change like CO had)
Funny thing, you mention FE.... which for me, was a total bust after 1 month and more glitches then I could count. But whatever makes you happy is what you should play.
I seem to recall those complaints as well with FE. Consistency is very rare to come by on this board.
Soon as I have played a few days I'll post my own review. I know that those that have been bashing this game since before BETA will just use it as a nitpicking session, but at least those who actually care about what the game is really like will have a better perspective before purchasing it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I seem to recall those complaints as well with FE. Consistency is very rare to come by on this board.
Soon as I have played a few days I'll post my own review. I know that those that have been bashing this game since before BETA will just use it as a nitpicking session, but at least those who actually care about what the game is really like will have a better perspective before purchasing it.
I welcome another review from someone playing the game. I feel that is what most of this forum has lacked. More people need to try something for a period of time rather than jump on a bandwagon. (ie, if you skip the ingame tutorials, you get no sympathy from anyone when you complain the controls are too hard and using second hand info to make your major arguements doesn't sell me on your points)
QFT.
I couldn't agree with this more also. I judge a game by 1 simple premise, is it fun? To me that answer is yes... I do have fun playing STO. Do I have issues with some of the things that are or aren't in the game? Sure I do but that doesn't change the fact that I had fun playing the beta and will play it at launch. How long I continue to play will be highly dependent on when the game stops being fun for me. Will that be in a month? 6 months? a year? ... I don't know at this point nor do I care quite frankly.
Bren
Bren,
I absolutely agree with your premise. Whether a person enjoys a game or not is really the only true measure of value for an entertainment product. The thing about that is.... "fun" is a very subjective measure....one persons fun is another persons horror show. Without knowing a great deal about the individuals tastes and why they found it fun...it doesn't provide any particular useful information about whether YOU will find the game fun as well..... which is what anyone who hasn't already tried the game will really want to know.
So I find posts that are generaly the equivalent of "This game is awesome" or "This game sux" without any further elaboration as to why to be kinda pointless. It's kinda like posting "I like vanilla" ......... I mean that's great, and it's perfectly fine that a person does...but what's the point posting that on a discussion board? There is not really much room to discuss anything there.... about all you'll get is another person with different tastes coming along posting "vanilla sux".
No one should feel obligated to have to justify why they like what they like.....but if a person wants to engage in a usefull discussion about a game (this IS a discussion board after-all) it helps to actualy provide some more details about what they liked/didn't like about the product.
From my perspective, I had a fair amount of information about STO before I went into OB.... so I went in with very low expectations. I was actualy pleasantly surprised once I played a little bit.... they put together a better game then I thought they would going in.... I still don't think it was a very good game....but it wasn't horrible either. I had some fun....but I just can't see it being worth the price of a subscription. I can't see myself playing STO often enough to be worth the cost of a monthly fee.
It would make a good candidate for something like a Station Pass (IMO), though..... or maybe some sort of "Pay as you go model".... so if you ended up playing only a couple of hours a week.... rather then paying like $15 a month for unlimited play.... you could opt to pay 25 cents an hour or something like that.... which would cover only the amount of hours that you actualy ended up playing..... which in my case, I couldn't see being much more then a few hours a month....after the first little bit.
I wonder if publishers would consider a model like that....there certainly are some downsides to it.... but it would also be a way to get some revenue from gamers that were undecided about your product...and weren't convinced that they would be playing it enough to make a subscription worthwhile....but still might play it a little if offered. Of course, they'd have to price it so that a monthly sub would be a good value purchase for anyone that played on anything more then a very casual basis... or give some other perk for subbing.
Fair enough. Although I too believe that 'what is fun' is highly subjective and I can only speak for myself I will give it a shot.
I really liked the ship combat and the way that positioning, maneuvering and shield manipulation was just as important as how big your weapons were. I like being able to swap out different combos of Weapons/shields/consoles on the fly to see what works best for you. Also I liked the fact that the particular 'shiny' loot was somewhat rare so when you did get a special piece of gear for your ship or avatar it seemed more 'epic' in a way(This is something severely lacking in newer MMO as purple and greens drop from almost every mob).
I also liked the fast pace nature of the ground combat although I did feel it needs some serious improvements. I still had fun on the away missions and the variety of locations is pretty staggering. I did see some duplication especially with ship interiors but they were nicely broken up by a lot of differing planetscapes in between. I also liked the fact that it didn't 'hand hold' you nearly as much as most games in the post WoW era do. There was no big glowing arrow over your head telling you exactly where to go and you actually had to look for stuff on your own. This actually gave me fond memories of EQ back when it was still good(The days before Luclin/PoP).
I loved the auto grouping features and the fleet/encounter open missions. The fact that you could fly in at any time and be a part of a somewhat epic battle with other players is great. The auto grouping feature was good too as it made some of the harder missions more fun to be playing with others all working toward a common goal. This was touched on in CO but STO got it absolutely right on the money.
Now for the not so good...
The social aspects of the game leave a whole lot to be desired. For one integrated voice chat I would think would be a no-brainer for a game like STO. There is just so much going on in space combat that there is no way a person without 3 hands could play and type messages at the same time. Also they really need more social activities at places like Earth Space Dock, Vulcan, Risa, K7, DS9 and so forth. Even if it was just some stupid little mini-games that you could play against an AI or Human player would have been a nice touch and given people a real reason to visit these places.
The Iconic planets need much bigger maps with missions and such you can do there. Just the fact that you can't even beam down to Earth was a huge oversight on Cryptic's part. These places are just small maps with absolutely no reason to go there after you visit them once as there is absolutely nothing to do on any of them.
Ground combat needs improvement. Just a cover mechanic would add a lot to the feel and flow of it. Although I do like the BO AI for skills and such their pathing is absolutely horrible. I don't now how many times I would be half way through an away mission and realize I was one person short because they were hung up on a doorway or a rock back near the beam in spot.
The last thing is the Klingon faction is seriously unfinished. After playing the Fed side till level 10 or so I found it very difficult being immersed in my Klingon character. I tried but there was very little 'Klingon' about it. I didn't play my Klingon after they did the UI patch so it may have improved somewhat but the faction is still severely lacking in content just the same. This is probably STOs greatest shortcoming and I'm sure they will get torn apart by many professional reviewers over this after launch.
Overall I had a very enjoyable experience playing and do look forward to launch. They will get my business for a while at least. They had better finish the game however and not try any of the nickle 'n dime crap they are pulling with CO or I will be out of there fairly quick. I'll admit I'm fairly leery of Cryptic after the crap they pulled with CO a couple of days ago so I'll be watching them closely from this point on.
Bren
Bren,
Thanks for the input. My own take on some of the points you raised. Space combat I thought was ok but not great. It was basicaly "tactics lite" as far as I was concerned. On the plus side...it DID actualy feel alot like the space combat in the shows/movies. On the minus side....it didn't actualy make for a very "deep" game in terms of strategy (IMO). I'm coming from a war-gamer background so that's something that would have hooked me. Given the pacing, I don't think they could have added much more depth to it and kept it manage-able for a single player. Well not exactly jet-fighters, the combat seems to be fairly fast paced...and I think it's pretty much all a single player can do to manage the controls he's been given at that pace. So difficult to do much more strategy then that and work the controls at the same time.
What I would have prefered is if they had slowed down the pace of combat in general and added more depth to it. I also would have prefered had the reduced the raw numbers of enemy ships you faced but made each individual enemy much more of a challenge. Somehow it just didn't feel right to be plowing through dozens of enemy starships an hour with my light cruiser (including enemy battleships). I would have much prefered something like a light cruiser on light cruiser duel taking 20 minutes for one ship to eventualy outmanuver and defeat it's opponents.
I was dissapointed that the combat was more (2.5 D) submarine style rather then full 3D movement with pitch, yaw and roll controls. I think that was probably more due to the limitations of the CO engine they used rather then a purposeful design decision on thier part. Would have liked to have seen different ranges/accuracy on the weapons systems as well..... and something like ECM/ECCM and more on the stealth/detection front. They could have also provided better combat feed-back on the AI.... something like an aspect guage...as well as more info on the radar (like showing, shield facings/weapon arcs and maybe putting tags on the enemy sensor contacts there). Would have been fun to see more varied terrain/environmental effects as well. The Briar Patch was cool (and painfull) but it was the only mission out of dozens that I played that had anything like space environmental effects.
Ground Combat - For some reason I actualy enjoyed more then space combat....but it was not very well done. There were some tactics in terms of positioning BO's and the flank & expose/exploit mechanics as well as firing off special abilities. However games like BattleField, MassEffect or WWII Online or even Fallen Earth make STO's ground combat look sad in comparison.
The biggest thing missing was a cover system.....using terrain objects as cover....I think any modern-futuristic "shooter" type combat game REALLY needs to address that aspect if they want the game to FEEL right. The other thing I was pretty dissapointed with was the short ranges involved...even my "Sniper Phaser Rifle" had a max range of like 30 meters...I mean really...I personaly could throw a rock and hit something at that range....but I can't fire a rifle at it? Even taking into account concessions for game-play sake....this still felt WAY too short.
You're right about the integrated voice chat....but I'm assuming people who want to fly together will just use Vent like in other games....so not so critical.
I really didn't like the "auto-group" feature...It was an interesting concept...but in practice...half the time it would auto-group me with some-one who was AFK or just being a dweeb. I suppose this was the only way they could do something like PUGS with thier "everything is an instance" approach....but I think it throws into harsh light just how limiting that approach is in terms of social interaction. On the other hand...the Fleet Actions....WERE alot of fun....and the cooperative play there added alot to the game that would have been missing otherwise.
In general, I thought the content was pretty boring/repetitive.....although there were a few better moments in there. I really disliked the "everything is an instance/mission" style of game-play. I would have vastly prefered them making large open zones with missions in them....ones that you could visit any time you like.....and where other players were on the map with you. Even if they had to do something like "public instances" ala Tabula Rasa to limit the number of players on a map at any one time I would have thought it was better.
On the PLUS side....
I liked alot what they did with character/ship customization and advancement. The skill points to purchase skill ranks system really works well...I vastly prefer that over the class/level system that most games use. I also thought it was very neat fitting your ship out with different systems...and being able to choose from different ship types/classes. If anything I would have loved to have seen even more variety of choices there.
BO's were also really fun. I still would vastly prefer a player-crew option..... but what they did with BO's was quite alot of fun...They really did feel like they started to take on thier own personalties....and acquiring, training and customizing them was a neat feature of game-play. I also liked how they used them in the breifing/communication windows during missions....that made them feel more "alive". Would have been great to have player-crews AND BO's both.
I also did like the over-all "feel" they gave the Federation....I can see how it would royaly PO some Trek fans.....as thier version of the Federation was far more "Sands of Iwo Jima" then anything presented in the series/movies.....but I never really got into the more "touchy-feely" aspects of Trek...and always found myself wishing it had a harder edge...so for me, that aspect was actualy welcome in the game.
Anyways.....not enough there to make me want to buy the game.....but it did turn out better then I expected it to be.
glad you like it , but it is way to much of a button masher for me, good for carpal tunnel,, and it took me 30 min to get into a PvP arena which is absurd, long loading times , it needs alot of improvement hopefully about 5 years down the road
Well, you just described just about every game.. Hitting buttons is how we humans interact with computers.. lol
As for the loading times.. Those will probably go down as the players advance and spread out..
This happends with every MMO..
But to me, it just sounds like you don't enjoy it in general, which in it's self is fine.. Not everyone is going to like every game..
I just find that calling any game a button masher is kind of ironic.. :P
glad you like it , but it is way to much of a button masher for me, good for carpal tunnel,, and it took me 30 min to get into a PvP arena which is absurd, long loading times , it needs alot of improvement hopefully about 5 years down the road
Well, you just described just about every game.. Hitting buttons is how we humans interact with computers.. lol
As for the loading times.. Those will probably go down as the players advance and spread out..
This happends with every MMO..
But to me, it just sounds like you don't enjoy it in general, which in it's self is fine.. Not everyone is going to like every game..
I just find that calling any game a button masher is kind of ironic.. :P
I was comparing it to games like Vanguard, even wow, of course SWG space game is a button masher also, and what is the story with taking so long to get into PvP is this just because of open beta or what, I actually enjoyed parts of the game I just feel space can be improved