I would expect either a free weekend and they have confirmed that it will go to PTS before it becomes available. We'll be able to see for ourselves. Until then...whatever. I have 12 toons and the highest is only 23 so I haven't even seen the conten that I have paid for. And before anyone chimes in to say that 23-40 sucks and it's lame, I'll make up my own mind about it. I won't pay for a zone. Players made that pretty clear so the ball is in their court to deliver a proper expansion and not a pile of fluff.
That is your decision and I can respect it as I've said many times on this forum that you should try something before you judge it. It's just in this case I'm not willing to pay for it just to try it. I'm not questioning the game itself or the quality of the content in this 'expansion'. My main problem with it is charging customers for patching in content that should have been in the very content lite game in the first place. Especially after stringing along the paying player base for months with the promise of filling in the games obvious content shortcomings only to find out now that they will have to pay for that filler content.
That is certain kind of mentality I can't understand, to buy a lifetime from a company which is currently being run by the guys who released Hellgate London before - a game with as well lifetime offer, that shut down its servers 6 months after.
At least Hellgate had an offline single player mode and a F2P option... CO and STO have neither.
Edit: Also Flagship never once billed HG:L as a MMO. It was a CORPG as far as they were concerned like GW.
That is certain kind of mentality I can't understand, to buy a lifetime from a company which is currently being run by the guys who released Hellgate London before - a game with as well lifetime offer, that shut down its servers 6 months after.
At least Hellgate had an offline single player mode and a F2P option... CO and STO have neither.
Bren
True, very true. I'm sure Hellgate London lifetimers are delighted and worship Bill Roper for giving them that offline mode.
Originally posted by Brenelael Originally posted by Leethe I would expect either a free weekend and they have confirmed that it will go to PTS before it becomes available. We'll be able to see for ourselves. Until then...whatever. I have 12 toons and the highest is only 23 so I haven't even seen the conten that I have paid for. And before anyone chimes in to say that 23-40 sucks and it's lame, I'll make up my own mind about it. I won't pay for a zone. Players made that pretty clear so the ball is in their court to deliver a proper expansion and not a pile of fluff.
That is your decision and I can respect it as I've said many times on this forum that you should try something before you judge it. It's just in this case I'm not willing to pay for it just to try it. I'm not questioning the game itself or the quality of the content in this 'expansion'. My main problem with it is charging customers for patching in content that should have been in the very content lite game in the first place. Especially after stringing along the paying player base for months with the promise of filling in the games obvious content shortcomings only to find out now that they will have to pay for that filler content.
Bren
I'm in agreement that Whatever content they are making should have been in from the beginning and that they have the bare-faced-cheek to charge us for the 1st (small sounding) content expansion. Jeez, Tabula Rasa (R.I.P.) had more content than this when it launched and I don't recall having to pay for the Earth map.
Thing is I'm a it screwed as all MMOs feel as slow as crap going upstream in January. I need a fast paced movement prey rich kill zone to have fun in and Co is it for me at the moment. I genuinely like the game but Cryptic seems to have a death wish or something.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
That is certain kind of mentality I can't understand, to buy a lifetime from a company which is currently being run by the guys who released Hellgate London before - a game with as well lifetime offer, that shut down its servers 6 months after.
At least Hellgate had an offline single player mode and a F2P option... CO and STO have neither.
Bren
True, very true. I'm sure Hellgate London lifetimers are delighted and worship Bill Roper for giving them that offline mode.
LOL... Not the point I was trying to make but I'm sure they love him for it as well.
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
I think it was no longer then almost a year after launch, till they started offering the Lifetime Offers again for the general public in LOTRO.
So Turbine's approach was a lot different. And with actual moral and healthy ethic intent.
Cryptic offers Lifetime subs only BEFORE launch, threatens unaware fans that it is only limited available. Or like now with STO, that they will have to pay $80 more for it, if they wait till AFTER release.
Because they know, that after they release their POS game. No sane person will even think about buying a lifetime sub, after they really seen the game itself and the sorry state it's in.
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Seriously, lifetime offer from a company running a monthly subscription business - is a scam in one way or another. It's a direct indication the game is not meant to last for long. In this silly transaction, customer is sacrificing his own opinion (he can't anymore just vote with his wallet and leave the game if something is wrong), and company is sacrificing long-term retention. It's a short term money injection to increase the profit during the box-sales period. It's simple as that.
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20 - 30$ with some additional adventure packages for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
Ehmm no.
Eventho Siege of Mirkwood wasn't a fullblown expansion. It was still an expansion that ADDED to an already finished/polished game.
It raised the cap by 5 levels, including needed content. Plus added extra game features, like the Skirmish system.
Sure there were plenty of people who were dissapointed by the expansion (incl. me). But we didn't feel ripped off.
The only reason why I felt dissapointed with Turbine. Is their lack of free book updates last year. (obviously because they shifted resources over to DDO Unlimited for the F2P revamp and getting it released).
Cryptic's announced expansion, is nothing more then a tiny content update to fill in a 3-level content gap, wich they themselves created at launch with their last minute panic XP nerf. And then expect their players to pay for it.
I find that quite a HUGE difference don't you think?
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20 - 30$ with some additional adventure packages for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
The only reason why I felt dissapointed with Turbine. Is their lack of free book updates last year. (obviously because they shifted resources over to DDO Unlimited for the F2P revamp and getting it released).
No it's not different. SoM is a direct result of lifetime system. As you just said, there has been a serious lack of free updates since Moria. Instead of adding free updates, they sell it now for 20$ US, 30$ EU. - That's all because, the lifetimers paid their lifetime more than one year ago (lifetime was equal to one year of subscription) - so these are now basically free players. They have to charge them somehow - so they release paid expansions which should be shipped as free content.
Same as CO. Lifetime offer is a scam and a plague of all long-term MMORPG's.
Oh right, with the "if it isn't polished at launch, it'll tank" mentality.
Everquest, the big great grandaddy of MMO's, the one that made big media with stories of addiction and husbands firing up laptops in the delivery room so not even their crotchfruit's birth would stop their camping of Jboots, released with a level cap of 50, but only spells up to level 29 were implemented
Let me restate that, at release, 20 levels worth of caster spells, a good 40% of their repetoire was not in. That's not end game content we're talking about, but core character mechanics..
And yet, 11 years later, they've got 16 expansions and people still feeding SoE and Smed money.
World of Warcraft, on launch day, had server queues on the level that made the multi hour Aion waits look -good- by comparison, and yet, at this point, it's the most popular MMO on the market (not going by opinion, but by subs, and yes, RMT counts, as that's still money in blizz's pocket)
Crap launches and unfinished games are not guarantees that the game will tank.
Conversely, there are a few disagreements I have with Cryptic. Notably how Klingons were promised to be a complete faction,and yet, PvE for them is tacked on at best. Also,the change from a "no skill cap" setup to a capped setup after they used it as a selling point is bothersome, but promising something pre launch only for changes is industry standard, just ask anybody who bought SWG on launch with the big "be anything, even a jedi!" on the back, or the promises of supergroup lairs before City of Heroes first came out, or the promises of Vanguard being playable before it came out (one of the Monk quests was bugged so you HAD to take the evil option)
Seriously, while I wouldn't call the problems STO has had in beta showstoppers, I would still keep a wary eye.
The #1 complaint for CO is the lack of content and they have the audacity to charge for a measely zone? Glad I only payed 10 bucks for the box I would never sub to it now and there's no way I'd buy STO. This is unacceptable and I don't want to see it in an MMO ever, Cryptic will never see another dime from me.
I feel so sorry for the lifetimers. They got screwed the hardest. What a horrible company to do that to their fans and supporters
No it's not different. SoM is a direct result of lifetime system. As you just said, there has been a serious lack of free updates since Moria. Instead of adding free updates, they sell it now for 20$ US, 30$ EU. - That's all because, the lifetimers paid their lifetime more than one year ago (lifetime was equal to one year of subscription) - so these are now basically free players. They have to charge them somehow - so they release paid expansions which should be shipped as free content. Same as CO. Lifetime offer is a scam and a plague of all long-term MMORPG's.
That Lifetime subscription system is a plague for the longetivity of an MMORPG. I think we can safely agree on that. As I don't like it either.
I just pointed out the difference between Turbine and Cryptic.
As with Turbine, I honestly believe they underestimated the impact the lifetime offer would have on their continous longterm monthly subscription revenue. And how they are now forced to continue with it, to keep covering the costs and longterm survival.
And the sudden SoM expansion was indeed a direct result from that.
With Cryptic however. They do these offers deliberately and BEFORE launch, with clear and sole intent to quickly cash in and as much as they can, because they know their games are unfinished, suck and lack any longetivity. And so basically scamming unaware players into forking out huge amounts of cash, based on HYPE, FALSE promisses and very clever viral marketing. Before the game is even released.
No it's not different. SoM is a direct result of lifetime system. As you just said, there has been a serious lack of free updates since Moria. Instead of adding free updates, they sell it now for 20$ US, 30$ EU. - That's all because, the lifetimers paid their lifetime more than one year ago (lifetime was equal to one year of subscription) - so these are now basically free players. They have to charge them somehow - so they release paid expansions which should be shipped as free content. Same as CO. Lifetime offer is a scam and a plague of all long-term MMORPG's.
That Lifetime subscription system is a plague for the longetivity of an MMORPG. I think we can safely agree on that. As I don't like it either.
I just pointed out the difference between Turbine and Cryptic.
As with Turbine, I honestly believe they underestimated the impact the lifetime offer would have on their continous longterm monthly subscription revenue. And how they are now forced to continue with it, to keep covering the costs and longterm survival.
And the sudden SoM expansion was indeed a direct result from that.
I agree with this completely.
I don't think this is Turbine's business practice. I think they were in a bad financial situation at that time, after AC2 financial fiasco and DDo didn't help them much either. I don't think they are gonna abandon Lotro at all, I actually think they are gonna turn it into f2p with microtransactions soon (just like they did with DDo) - each update is indicating to this (skirmishes, barter system, and separation of all new zones with a loading screen - moria/lothlorien/mirkwood).
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, not really.
The problem here isnt about free content vs paid content... paid expansions are fine, and optional DLC (such as BioWare do) is acceptable.
The problem here, for the vast majority, is that the game was launched extremely content light and that many think that they have a right to value for money before being charged extra to fill it out. it also dosent help that the content is offered as a option for (lemuria) is buggy and wildly unpopular with existing players.
If a game is percieved as being generally 'complete' at launch then people rarely have an issue with 'extra'. It's all about value, especially in a sub game. Is the user receiveing, in his eyes, what he is paying for? Obviously, with CO, a lot arnt and that is your issue here
Simply put, most dont mind paying for additonal content, they just hate paying for content they think should already be there, especially when so much more needs to be done to make this game value for money.
The fact that it is so young is also an issue for most.... it suggests that this paid content was just unfinished material from the dev period of the game but didnt make it in because it wasnt ready, and that they now want to charge extra for it.
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, no it is not.
And I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain the difference to you, as a quick look at your post history shows you have no love for Turbine or LotRO.
i.e. You won't change your mind, and you'll continue with the snide remarks and blatant misinformation.
I don't know maybee Im wrong but 6 months out and your gettign a paid xpac. That seams kind of soon, but from everything I have read the game was shallow anyway.
Since I don't play the game I don't know but Im not playing either game, I just deinstalled sto, and now I am cryptic free on my machine.
Turbines Mirkwood expansion not only introduced a new zone, but also raised the level cap, provided new quests and instances, new epic gear, a addition and improvement to the legendary weapon system, skirmish system and even little things like horse functionality improvements. Also of note Lothlorien is a pretty big zone and was offered through regular Book updates.
And expansion in my eyes is worth it when it offeres not only new zones and quests but also new systems that enrich the entire game. So far, I would be hard pressed to call Vibora Bay an expansion, it is being referred to as a "single zone with content 37-40." Now granted that we do not have all the details, but to mean that sounds like a new zone with some quests, and some perks. Maybe some interior locations.
How this does will impact Star Trek I guarentee it. If Vibora Bay sells well, I would expect new sectors to be appearing in the STO store.
LotrO got more content during their first 6 months than other MMOs get in 18 months. (maybe thanks to all the money they got from lifetimers?)
Turbine announced a long time ago that they wre going to have 1 payed expansion every year and they are sticking to that and having free updates between. Sure not as many as the first 6 months but I dont see ow they are able to make twice as much content as other MMOs without charging for it, especially since they dont use microstransaction like all SOE games, WoW and STO/CO...
That Atari have the nerve to charge extra for content that fill in the gaps in the game ontop of bx+monthly sub+RMT is just pure greed.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, no it is not.
And I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain the difference to you, as a quick look at your post history shows you have no love for Turbine or LotRO.
i.e. You won't change your mind, and you'll continue with the snide remarks and blatant misinformation.
You are not gonna waste your time to say something intelligent, but you wasted your time to check my post history.
I am still playing DDo - one of their games, and I did play AC 2 - I was there during the fiasco when Turbine kept saying everything is all right, released a paid expansion and then 3 months after announced to terminate all servers. They didn't compensate the playerbase in no way like NCsoft did with TR ex-customers. However, I still continued to play Turbine games - DDo and Lotro.
Yet, people keep playing and paying for these half-arsed games....
....who are the biggest fools/idiots?
I only paid £7.50 for CO, reached level cap within 2 weeks. Saw that 99% of the team were moved to STO, there was NO replayability, no content (repeatable missions do not count as content!) and bugs that persisted from launch. I cancelled after the 3rd week into my free month (I'd seen 100% of the content by then). Then find out that they basically copied Champions Online and added a mod, and called it Star Trek Online? And people keep supporting these developers?
Lifetime offer is the biggest scam in MMORPG genre so far.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, no it is not.
And I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain the difference to you, as a quick look at your post history shows you have no love for Turbine or LotRO.
i.e. You won't change your mind, and you'll continue with the snide remarks and blatant misinformation.
You are not gonna waste your time to say something intelligent, but you wasted your time to check my post history.
I am still playing DDo - one of their games, and I did play AC 2 - I was there during the fiasco when Turbine kept saying everything is all right, released a paid expansion and then 3 months after announced to terminate all servers. They didn't compensate the playerbase in no way like NCsoft did with TR ex-customers. However, I still continued to play Turbine games - DDo and Lotro.
Actually, I got the Mirkwood expansion free. I did, however, pay for the adventure pack.
Comments
That is your decision and I can respect it as I've said many times on this forum that you should try something before you judge it. It's just in this case I'm not willing to pay for it just to try it. I'm not questioning the game itself or the quality of the content in this 'expansion'. My main problem with it is charging customers for patching in content that should have been in the very content lite game in the first place. Especially after stringing along the paying player base for months with the promise of filling in the games obvious content shortcomings only to find out now that they will have to pay for that filler content.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
At least Hellgate had an offline single player mode and a F2P option... CO and STO have neither.
Edit: Also Flagship never once billed HG:L as a MMO. It was a CORPG as far as they were concerned like GW.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
At least Hellgate had an offline single player mode and a F2P option... CO and STO have neither.
Bren
True, very true. I'm sure Hellgate London lifetimers are delighted and worship Bill Roper for giving them that offline mode.
REALITY CHECK
Bren
I'm in agreement that Whatever content they are making should have been in from the beginning and that they have the bare-faced-cheek to charge us for the 1st (small sounding) content expansion. Jeez, Tabula Rasa (R.I.P.) had more content than this when it launched and I don't recall having to pay for the Earth map.
Thing is I'm a it screwed as all MMOs feel as slow as crap going upstream in January. I need a fast paced movement prey rich kill zone to have fun in and Co is it for me at the moment. I genuinely like the game but Cryptic seems to have a death wish or something.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
At least Hellgate had an offline single player mode and a F2P option... CO and STO have neither.
Bren
True, very true. I'm sure Hellgate London lifetimers are delighted and worship Bill Roper for giving them that offline mode.
LOL... Not the point I was trying to make but I'm sure they love him for it as well.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
I think it was no longer then almost a year after launch, till they started offering the Lifetime Offers again for the general public in LOTRO.
So Turbine's approach was a lot different. And with actual moral and healthy ethic intent.
Cryptic offers Lifetime subs only BEFORE launch, threatens unaware fans that it is only limited available. Or like now with STO, that they will have to pay $80 more for it, if they wait till AFTER release.
Because they know, that after they release their POS game. No sane person will even think about buying a lifetime sub, after they really seen the game itself and the sorry state it's in.
Cheers
this is amusing
die.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
REALITY CHECK
Seriously, lifetime offer from a company running a monthly subscription business - is a scam in one way or another. It's a direct indication the game is not meant to last for long. In this silly transaction, customer is sacrificing his own opinion (he can't anymore just vote with his wallet and leave the game if something is wrong), and company is sacrificing long-term retention. It's a short term money injection to increase the profit during the box-sales period. It's simple as that.
REALITY CHECK
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20 - 30$ with some additional adventure packages for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
Ehmm no.
Eventho Siege of Mirkwood wasn't a fullblown expansion. It was still an expansion that ADDED to an already finished/polished game.
It raised the cap by 5 levels, including needed content. Plus added extra game features, like the Skirmish system.
Sure there were plenty of people who were dissapointed by the expansion (incl. me). But we didn't feel ripped off.
The only reason why I felt dissapointed with Turbine. Is their lack of free book updates last year. (obviously because they shifted resources over to DDO Unlimited for the F2P revamp and getting it released).
Cryptic's announced expansion, is nothing more then a tiny content update to fill in a 3-level content gap, wich they themselves created at launch with their last minute panic XP nerf. And then expect their players to pay for it.
I find that quite a HUGE difference don't you think?
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20 - 30$ with some additional adventure packages for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
The only reason why I felt dissapointed with Turbine. Is their lack of free book updates last year. (obviously because they shifted resources over to DDO Unlimited for the F2P revamp and getting it released).
No it's not different. SoM is a direct result of lifetime system. As you just said, there has been a serious lack of free updates since Moria. Instead of adding free updates, they sell it now for 20$ US, 30$ EU. - That's all because, the lifetimers paid their lifetime more than one year ago (lifetime was equal to one year of subscription) - so these are now basically free players. They have to charge them somehow - so they release paid expansions which should be shipped as free content.
Same as CO. Lifetime offer is a scam and a plague of all long-term MMORPG's.
REALITY CHECK
Ahem, where to begin?
Oh right, with the "if it isn't polished at launch, it'll tank" mentality.
Everquest, the big great grandaddy of MMO's, the one that made big media with stories of addiction and husbands firing up laptops in the delivery room so not even their crotchfruit's birth would stop their camping of Jboots, released with a level cap of 50, but only spells up to level 29 were implemented
Let me restate that, at release, 20 levels worth of caster spells, a good 40% of their repetoire was not in. That's not end game content we're talking about, but core character mechanics..
And yet, 11 years later, they've got 16 expansions and people still feeding SoE and Smed money.
World of Warcraft, on launch day, had server queues on the level that made the multi hour Aion waits look -good- by comparison, and yet, at this point, it's the most popular MMO on the market (not going by opinion, but by subs, and yes, RMT counts, as that's still money in blizz's pocket)
Crap launches and unfinished games are not guarantees that the game will tank.
Conversely, there are a few disagreements I have with Cryptic. Notably how Klingons were promised to be a complete faction,and yet, PvE for them is tacked on at best. Also,the change from a "no skill cap" setup to a capped setup after they used it as a selling point is bothersome, but promising something pre launch only for changes is industry standard, just ask anybody who bought SWG on launch with the big "be anything, even a jedi!" on the back, or the promises of supergroup lairs before City of Heroes first came out, or the promises of Vanguard being playable before it came out (one of the Monk quests was bugged so you HAD to take the evil option)
Seriously, while I wouldn't call the problems STO has had in beta showstoppers, I would still keep a wary eye.
What a dick move!
The #1 complaint for CO is the lack of content and they have the audacity to charge for a measely zone? Glad I only payed 10 bucks for the box I would never sub to it now and there's no way I'd buy STO. This is unacceptable and I don't want to see it in an MMO ever, Cryptic will never see another dime from me.
I feel so sorry for the lifetimers. They got screwed the hardest. What a horrible company to do that to their fans and supporters
Currently Playing: The Game
That Lifetime subscription system is a plague for the longetivity of an MMORPG. I think we can safely agree on that. As I don't like it either.
I just pointed out the difference between Turbine and Cryptic.
As with Turbine, I honestly believe they underestimated the impact the lifetime offer would have on their continous longterm monthly subscription revenue. And how they are now forced to continue with it, to keep covering the costs and longterm survival.
And the sudden SoM expansion was indeed a direct result from that.
With Cryptic however. They do these offers deliberately and BEFORE launch, with clear and sole intent to quickly cash in and as much as they can, because they know their games are unfinished, suck and lack any longetivity. And so basically scamming unaware players into forking out huge amounts of cash, based on HYPE, FALSE promisses and very clever viral marketing. Before the game is even released.
Cheers
That Lifetime subscription system is a plague for the longetivity of an MMORPG. I think we can safely agree on that. As I don't like it either.
I just pointed out the difference between Turbine and Cryptic.
As with Turbine, I honestly believe they underestimated the impact the lifetime offer would have on their continous longterm monthly subscription revenue. And how they are now forced to continue with it, to keep covering the costs and longterm survival.
And the sudden SoM expansion was indeed a direct result from that.
I agree with this completely.
I don't think this is Turbine's business practice. I think they were in a bad financial situation at that time, after AC2 financial fiasco and DDo didn't help them much either. I don't think they are gonna abandon Lotro at all, I actually think they are gonna turn it into f2p with microtransactions soon (just like they did with DDo) - each update is indicating to this (skirmishes, barter system, and separation of all new zones with a loading screen - moria/lothlorien/mirkwood).
REALITY CHECK
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, not really.
The problem here isnt about free content vs paid content... paid expansions are fine, and optional DLC (such as BioWare do) is acceptable.
The problem here, for the vast majority, is that the game was launched extremely content light and that many think that they have a right to value for money before being charged extra to fill it out. it also dosent help that the content is offered as a option for (lemuria) is buggy and wildly unpopular with existing players.
If a game is percieved as being generally 'complete' at launch then people rarely have an issue with 'extra'. It's all about value, especially in a sub game. Is the user receiveing, in his eyes, what he is paying for? Obviously, with CO, a lot arnt and that is your issue here
Simply put, most dont mind paying for additonal content, they just hate paying for content they think should already be there, especially when so much more needs to be done to make this game value for money.
The fact that it is so young is also an issue for most.... it suggests that this paid content was just unfinished material from the dev period of the game but didnt make it in because it wasnt ready, and that they now want to charge extra for it.
Yeah, I learnt my lesson when I did the lotro lifetime sub... never again...
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, no it is not.
And I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain the difference to you, as a quick look at your post history shows you have no love for Turbine or LotRO.
i.e. You won't change your mind, and you'll continue with the snide remarks and blatant misinformation.
I don't know maybee Im wrong but 6 months out and your gettign a paid xpac. That seams kind of soon, but from everything I have read the game was shallow anyway.
Since I don't play the game I don't know but Im not playing either game, I just deinstalled sto, and now I am cryptic free on my machine.
A few points:
Turbines Mirkwood expansion not only introduced a new zone, but also raised the level cap, provided new quests and instances, new epic gear, a addition and improvement to the legendary weapon system, skirmish system and even little things like horse functionality improvements. Also of note Lothlorien is a pretty big zone and was offered through regular Book updates.
And expansion in my eyes is worth it when it offeres not only new zones and quests but also new systems that enrich the entire game. So far, I would be hard pressed to call Vibora Bay an expansion, it is being referred to as a "single zone with content 37-40." Now granted that we do not have all the details, but to mean that sounds like a new zone with some quests, and some perks. Maybe some interior locations.
How this does will impact Star Trek I guarentee it. If Vibora Bay sells well, I would expect new sectors to be appearing in the STO store.
To even compare it to LotrO is insane!
LotrO got more content during their first 6 months than other MMOs get in 18 months. (maybe thanks to all the money they got from lifetimers?)
Turbine announced a long time ago that they wre going to have 1 payed expansion every year and they are sticking to that and having free updates between. Sure not as many as the first 6 months but I dont see ow they are able to make twice as much content as other MMOs without charging for it, especially since they dont use microstransaction like all SOE games, WoW and STO/CO...
That Atari have the nerve to charge extra for content that fill in the gaps in the game ontop of bx+monthly sub+RMT is just pure greed.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
That's hilarious, wonder how the lifetime sub guys feel now.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, no it is not.
And I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain the difference to you, as a quick look at your post history shows you have no love for Turbine or LotRO.
i.e. You won't change your mind, and you'll continue with the snide remarks and blatant misinformation.
You are not gonna waste your time to say something intelligent, but you wasted your time to check my post history.
I am still playing DDo - one of their games, and I did play AC 2 - I was there during the fiasco when Turbine kept saying everything is all right, released a paid expansion and then 3 months after announced to terminate all servers. They didn't compensate the playerbase in no way like NCsoft did with TR ex-customers. However, I still continued to play Turbine games - DDo and Lotro.
REALITY CHECK
Yet, people keep playing and paying for these half-arsed games....
....who are the biggest fools/idiots?
I only paid £7.50 for CO, reached level cap within 2 weeks. Saw that 99% of the team were moved to STO, there was NO replayability, no content (repeatable missions do not count as content!) and bugs that persisted from launch. I cancelled after the 3rd week into my free month (I'd seen 100% of the content by then). Then find out that they basically copied Champions Online and added a mod, and called it Star Trek Online? And people keep supporting these developers?
Be paid for Beta Testing, don't pay to Beta Test.
Except LOTRO. Those people really got worth for their money.
But then again, that game was actually polished and of good quality at launch.
And the Lifetime offer in the beginning was only offered to the Closed Beta testers at start, for their loyal support and longtime testing of the game. Along with a founder title.
No, including Lotro.
Lotro just released a paid expansion SOM for a price of 20$ (US) / 30$ (EU) with some additional bonus packages (like 2 more character slots, shared bank storage, and some useless trinkets) for another 10$, that contained one zone and content for 60-65. CO is gonna release a paid expansion probably in the same price zone, that will add content for 37-40 and one zone.
Isn't that kinda -... similiar?
No, no it is not.
And I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain the difference to you, as a quick look at your post history shows you have no love for Turbine or LotRO.
i.e. You won't change your mind, and you'll continue with the snide remarks and blatant misinformation.
You are not gonna waste your time to say something intelligent, but you wasted your time to check my post history.
I am still playing DDo - one of their games, and I did play AC 2 - I was there during the fiasco when Turbine kept saying everything is all right, released a paid expansion and then 3 months after announced to terminate all servers. They didn't compensate the playerbase in no way like NCsoft did with TR ex-customers. However, I still continued to play Turbine games - DDo and Lotro.
Actually, I got the Mirkwood expansion free. I did, however, pay for the adventure pack.