Very serious... some of us have a full time job, and a family..
5 hours a day to a game...everyday... for 2 months... just to get competative.. think about that for a minute..
Many of us DF players have real adult lives as well. You are not required to play for 5 hours a day to become competitive. I don't even play everyday, let alone 5 hours a day. Sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same game as some of you.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Very serious... some of us have a full time job, and a family..
5 hours a day to a game...everyday... for 2 months... just to get competative.. think about that for a minute..
Many of us DF players have real adult lives as well. You are not required to play for 5 hours a day to become competitive. I don't even play everyday, let alone 5 hours a day. Sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same game as some of you.
I was just using his example, not my own..
I have other things occupying my time right now.. My point is, when i get done, and have my normal time back, i'll be even that much farther behind. I may try again, I may not...
This argument is showing up in DF now too? Of all the trends in MMORPGs these days that make me /facepalm, this is among the biggest of them.
"I don't have as much time to play as other people, and they all started before me and it's not fair that I can't compete with them as soon as I'd like so the game should be changed to better suit my schedule and play style".
FFS... Where does this mindset come from? Where ever it is, I'm glad I never caught it because it's so incredibly myopic and ego-centric that I'd be ashamed to think I shared it.
The progress curve does not need to change to suit the individual because of their schedule, or play-style, etc. The player has to set realistic expectations within the context of how much progress they can make given the time they have to play. If the game isn't well-suited to it then either adjust expectations... or find a game that better suits your playstyle.
How much or how little time you can or choose to play is not the developers' problem. They made the game for a specific niche of players, and those in that niche enjoy it just fine.
It's not "unfair" that people with more time to play, or with more time played overall, have made more progress... It's *common sense*.
If you want to compete with the end-gamers... then play the game, develop your character and improve... *just like they did*. And in fact, many of the original players had to go through an even *harsher* progression than newer players do. They did it. Others are in the process of doing it. You can do it too. If you *choose* not to, then accept it as your own choice and move on. Stop blaming the damn game design because it doesn't cater to your personal wants and desires.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I played UO from beta to AOS.. I love this type of game. However.. I didnt last very long in Darkfall, mostly because to the gap between vet and newb, and the amount of time in my day to play right now (after reading this thread, its even bigger than i though ) As others have said, I don't have the time to make up this gap right now, and the longer i wait, the larger it will be. I may try the game again when I have more time to play in a few months, but i honestly doubt it. Its too bad, because i really think i would like this game... A lot of people like to compare Darkfall to UO, but in this regard (the gap), they are very much different..
Are you guys serious? My friend plays an average of 5 or so hours a day or less, and he current has 270HP, GA Mastery 30, earth magic 50 and working on witches brew.
His first month just renewed at the start of this week. You just have to know how to properly skill up and what things are the most important, of course he won't hold his own in a 1v1 against a veteran player just yet, but by the time his 2nd month renews he will more than likely be getting there.
Very serious...
some of us have a full time job, and a family..
5 hours a day to a game...everyday... for 2 months... just to get competative..
think about that for a minute..
5 Hours OR LESS. Some days he is not on at all when I am. He is also extremely full time given that he's got classes and is on the swimteam, and a job. If he can find the time to play I'm sure anyone can.
I am on usually as much as him but not every day but while I am on I know what to do to get myself prepared.
Not to toss around accusations, but when he's not actively playing for those 5 hours, how much of the rest of the day is he macroing or AFK swimming?
So much of Darkfall is skewed by the fact that so many players do these things, and many characters are literally logged into the game 23/7 (1hr maint. every day) even if they only actually play the game for a handful of hours actively.
I think the point a lot of people miss about those who complain of the gap is that to have any means of being competitive, or "catch up" as it were, they feel nearly obligated to take part in such things (macroing and AFK swimming, etc.). Sorry, but there's plenty of us who don't want to participate.
The other point that's missed quite commonly is the reality that not all of us want to be RAMBO, running around like a roid-raging freak with explosive-tipped arrows, causing explosions that only a mass of C4 and gasoline should create. We just want to hold our own. Plenty of people are obliged to grind and just "enjoy" the game, but when you're perpetually put in situations where defending yourself is essential and in many cases you must do so against players you'd have no chance against even if you got the jump, it makes it difficult. People I know have left the game due to that very reason, and it's not as though they're trying to avoid PVP, it's that it's inescapable and indefensible when trying to grind skills/stats. The options that remain? Bloodwall, macro, and afk swim. Yay, now I get to shoot/stab people at a wall for 1/3rd the skillup on melee/archery, and 1/6th on magic, all the while bleeding gold and taking part in activities that I'd otherwise deem against the spirit of anygame, merely so I can close an gap that can only be closed with a mass amount of time no matter which way you slice it.
ALL of that said, I actually don't mind. As others have put it, it's about the journey, and not so much the destination. When the journey is fun, people don't mind. It does, however, become frustrating and lose its appeal when time and time again your progress or plain old fun is jumped on by people against whom you can't possibly compete, and it's times like that the daunting task ahead of you becomes so abundantly clear. I think what people really want isn't so much instant gratification, but merely a means to be competitive in a quicker manner.
As a side note, that hitting rocks or trees is the best way to raise stats is ridiculous, given that you risk nothing (not even your time - it can be done in 10min afk rounds) compared to a player who must actively use gear and pay attention to his task. Boost combat gains imo.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
It's not "unfair" that people with more time to play, or with more time played overall, have made more progress... It's *common sense*. If you want to compete with the end-gamers... then play the game, develop your character and improve...
Well that might work in the themepark mmo you came from, but it doesn`t work for a ffa full-loot pvp mmo like Darkfall. I don`t have to tell you I`m right anymore, the subscriber numbers will do that for me. Darkfall is an empty shell of a game after almost a year, and there is NO sign ut will ever increase.
The only....I repeat....THE ONLY reason Darkfall failed as an mmo was the grind. We don`t get any new pvpers and we don`t have any casual players. You are right, Darkfall is a niche game. It`s a niche game for players with the time to play 5-15 hours EVERY day.
Jesus, I`m amazed you guys don`t see that this is wrong.
It's not "unfair" that people with more time to play, or with more time played overall, have made more progress... It's *common sense*. If you want to compete with the end-gamers... then play the game, develop your character and improve...
Well that might work in the themepark mmo you came from, but it doesn`t work for a ffa full-loot pvp mmo like Darkfall. I don`t have to tell you I`m right anymore, the subscriber numbers will do that for me. Darkfall is an empty shell of a game after almost a year, and there is NO sign ut will ever increase.
The only....I repeat....THE ONLY reason Darkfall failed as an mmo was the grind. We don`t get any new pvpers and we don`t have any casual players. You are right, Darkfall is a niche game. It`s a niche game for players with the time to play 5-15 hours EVERY day.
Jesus, I`m amazed you guys don`t see that this is wrong.
Darkfall is not an empty shell of a game and there is a major population boom. Darkfall is a success and it isn't going anywhere but up.
But that's just it... they don't win because they are better than me. They win because they have a synthetic advantage in terms of stats and character skills. I am quite confident I would pwn some of these people if the playing field was more level. And I can't help but be frustrated that I will probably never overcome the handicap.
And when I say the game is bleeding subscribers, I mean that out of 4 people who joined the game (me and 3 rl friends), I am the only one left. We also met a few people in game who we grouped with frequently and guess what... they have all quit too. I am the only one left and I too am starting to have my doubts about the game for the reasons I have already mentioned. When 4 people join together and only 1 is left after nearly 3 months, that to me seems like bleeding subscribers. And we were all very enthusiastic when we started. We had all been waiting for a hardcore full-loot FFA MMO for YEARS.
In the end, all of them quit for the same reason... they just couldn't handle the grind in addition to their rl responsibilities. Can you really blame them?
I have to disagree 100% with your conclusions. I've fought older players with higher stats and defeated them, also I've been owned by players with much lower stats. Stats do not equal victory.
If this were counter strike or battlefield or quake and you came on the forums and said "I've played for 3 months but older players are beating me, it's very frustrating" could you imagine the response? Yes this is an MMO but it's also an FPS and the laws of FPS apply in combat more so than the laws of the MMO. A synthetic advantage? They worked for the abilities their chars have and when fighting that advantage is a privelige they've earned and should be treated as such, you shouldn't be bitter about it. Also you're begining to sound like all those guys that lose in PvP and scream hacker or macroer due to sour grapes, don't get bitter and frustrated, get even!
Your biggest disadvantage in my opinion is your belief that any player older than you must have higher stats and is therefore unbeatable in PvP. You keep thinking like that and it will become a self full filling prophecy! I'm telling you now for a fact it isn't true, this isn't some lame level based button masher. Unless I'm halucinating it can't be true because I've defeated better chars and been defeated by lesser ones.
I suspect your only handicap is lack of a half decent clan, does your clan do PvP training with eachother? Do you raid or get raided often? My guess is the answer is no, get in a good clan ASAP before you get so pissed off you quit. If you're on EU-1 go to the MAG website in my sig, go to the Darkfall Recruitment forum, register and apply. If you're on NA-1 find someone here that's running a decent clan and join up. A lame clan is just a one way ticket to frustration and bordem in DFO.
Bleeding subscribers? I'd say they're low compared to the top flight MMORPGs but they are stable. There is a trickle of new players that actually stay and I feel that the retention rate is pretty good. MAG went from 18-20 players pre patch to 40-50 now post patch.
Join a decent clan, join a decent clan then join a decent clan. I can only say so much but unless you've got someone in game helping you my words aren't worth the steam off a sloppy turd! So do it now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Darkfall is not an empty shell of a game and there is a major population boom. Darkfall is a success and it isn't going anywhere but up.
This.
WTF is with all the "DOOOOOOOOOM" posts today?
Have you people actually LOOKED around in the game and noticed how many people are playing?? I've ridden across 3/4 of Agon today, and the game is very nicely populated from what I can see.
WTF is with all the "DOOOOOOOOOM" posts today? Have you people actually LOOKED around in the game and noticed how many people are playing?? I've ridden across 3/4 of Agon today, and the game is very nicely populated from what I can see.
We will get the real number from EU1 in a few weeks, and then we`ll see what the trend is.
WTF is with all the "DOOOOOOOOOM" posts today? Have you people actually LOOKED around in the game and noticed how many people are playing?? I've ridden across 3/4 of Agon today, and the game is very nicely populated from what I can see.
We will get the real number from EU1 in a few weeks, and then we`ll see what the trend is.
Well his list has 41 members for MAG, with only 9 active. That's just BS. He has me as inactive and I'm online nearly every day! I'm looking at a bunch of guys ingame and on vent that are inactive according to that list! I looked through his assesment of MAG and I can state we have atleast 21 players that I play with most days of the week. Those are the ones I know of personally, I don't know where he gets his figure of 9 from but it's crap.
This is probably a snap shot of the server at a given time, not an accurate assesment of active/inactive players. Although it is probably the best we have at the moment, I'd just like to point that out. Also it doesn't include those that aren't clanned.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Happy 4th Aniversary with MMORPG Agricola :P I'll be taking up your offer to join Darkfall soon, but first i've ordered Windows 7 and MassEffect 2 I'll probobly get the game in like 1 - 2 weeks, or maybe in a few days if im lucky
Thanks
If you're on EU-1 send me a PM and we can help you out.
Welcome to Agon!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Well his list has 41 members for MAG, with only 9 active. That's just BS. He has me as inactive and I'm online nearly every day!
That`s why we need a few weeks, and it will never be accurate. It can only show a trend on the numbers.
The scanning of player changes will be done 2 times per day.
An active player is:
--------------------
* Someone that increase/decrease in alignment
* New rank within a guild
* Someone that change guild
* Changes sex (Hey it might happen in the future, this is a sandbox after all!)
* Changes race
* New players that pops up in the scan
Only players that belong to a clan can be scanned.
That explains why I'm inactive. My alignment and rank haven't changed in a while, nor have I changed clan. I haven't had my bits cut off or a Michael Jackson and I've been playing for 2.5 months.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
So basically quite a few of you are AFK while you skill up which is against the TOS not to mention it's lame the game brings players to do this just to become competitive. Wow playing a game AFK, amazing! And AV wonders why they have retention issues lol. I bought the game and the 6 month sub and yah it's a cool concept, but I am also one that rarely logs in anymore after about 2 months of mindless grinding. I want to pvp, lol yah i know crazy huh? pvping in a pvp game, and I want to actually win some of those encounters rather than be roflpwn'd every time. Yah sure I could go kill the few new players that there are in starter cites, but what's the fun in that? It would probably just end up running more new players off anyways.
Currently Playing: Toying around with AoC and bored with Darkfall
Thinking of Playing: Fallen Earth or Darkfall after this months update.
Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, WoW, WAR, Vanguard, EvE, Requiem, PW, Lotro, Lineage2, AoC, SWG...
So basically quite a few of you are AFK while you skill up which is against the TOS not to mention it's lame the game brings players to do this just to become competitive. Wow playing a game AFK, amazing! And AV wonders why they have retention issues lol. I bought the game and the 6 month sub and yah it's a cool concept, but I am also one that rarely logs in anymore after about 2 months of mindless grinding. I want to pvp, lol yah i know crazy huh? pvping in a pvp game, and I want to actually win some of those encounters rather than be roflpwn'd every time. Yah sure I could go kill the few new players that there are in starter cites, but what's the fun in that and it would probably just end up running more new players off.
I'm taking the fifth on that, ahh but since this is the EU server I'll just say that I have no recolection of the events or playstlye that you describe and I'm always at the keyboard whenever I'm gathering, FACT!!!!!!!!
You want to PvP? What's the problem? What kind of clan are you in? Do they have a city? Do you raid? Siege?
If you're on EU-1 send me a pm and you can get hooked up with MAG. If on NA-1, WW III is taking place FFS! What 6 sieges are taking place today with some all out mayhem taking place? If you're not logged in or grinding all the time what do you expect? The mountain isn't gonna come to Mohammed you know?
Last weekend click moaning is gonna get you nowhere, you need to get in a clan, tool up and get stuck in.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Good grief. This argument is showing up in DF now too? Of all the trends in MMORPGs these days that make me /facepalm, this is among the biggest of them.
"I don't have as much time to play as other people, and they all started before me and it's not fair that I can't compete with them as soon as I'd like so the game should be changed to better suit my schedule and play style".
Actually, i don't think anyone here said it should be changed, as much as they they said this is why i don't subscribe any more....
Good grief. This argument is showing up in DF now too? Of all the trends in MMORPGs these days that make me /facepalm, this is among the biggest of them.
"I don't have as much time to play as other people, and they all started before me and it's not fair that I can't compete with them as soon as I'd like so the game should be changed to better suit my schedule and play style".
Actually, i don't think anyone here said it should be changed, as much as they they said this is why i don't subscribe any more....
/shrug
Ok so you have no desire to see the game changed, and you are not going to subscribe. Are you here just to complain?
When most people get to that point they move on. I really don't get some of you. Bitching for the sake of bitching I guess.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Good grief. This argument is showing up in DF now too? Of all the trends in MMORPGs these days that make me /facepalm, this is among the biggest of them.
"I don't have as much time to play as other people, and they all started before me and it's not fair that I can't compete with them as soon as I'd like so the game should be changed to better suit my schedule and play style".
Actually, i don't think anyone here said it should be changed, as much as they they said this is why i don't subscribe any more....
/shrug
Ok so you have no desire to see the game changed, and you are not going to subscribe. Are you here just to complain?
When most people get to that point they move on. I really don't get some of you. Bitching for the sake of bitching I guess.
Ahh... so if I want to see the game changed, i get a /facepalm, because i'm just being selfish, and i want the game all about me...
But if i don't want the game to change I'm only here to complain, and bitch...
OR..
Its a game that I am interested in, and like to keep up with, and perhaps resub to in the future, depending on how quickly i can get the interior of my house done. With this in mind, I occasionaly go to a forum dedicated to the game.
While there, I noticed someone brought up a topic which I was interested in, so i thought to add an opinion, being that this is a message booard and all... I didnt bitch.. i didn't say the game should be changed.. Yet i'm still in the wrong.
If you only want to hear how rosey and awesome your game is, I might suggest not coming to a board based on your beloved, on a somewhat neutral site..
I played UO from beta to AOS.. I love this type of game. However.. I didnt last very long in Darkfall, mostly because to the gap between vet and newb, and the amount of time in my day to play right now (after reading this thread, its even bigger than i though ) As others have said, I don't have the time to make up this gap right now, and the longer i wait, the larger it will be. I may try the game again when I have more time to play in a few months, but i honestly doubt it. Its too bad, because i really think i would like this game... A lot of people like to compare Darkfall to UO, but in this regard (the gap), they are very much different..
Haha, I played UO from 98 to AOS, and DF is absolutly nothing like UO.
The grind in DF is just mindboggling. I have played alot for almost a year, and I`m still just a medium player in stats and skill. I macro whenever I can, but the grind still overwhelms me. It`s been a long time since I thought about DF as a PVP mmo. We simply doesn`t have enough pvpers to play as intended. Now I just macro and kill a few npc when I`m online.
And don`t think the grind stops if you ever get a decent char. Then you need to grind for armor, weapons, money, enchants etc. Sure the fanbois will probably tell you you don`t need gear, just as they say you don`t need stats or skill. Well trust me they are lying, you`ll need all to be competative in DF.
It`s a shame the best game for years got fucked up by an insane grind for level, skill and stats.
I played UO from beta to AOS.. I love this type of game. However.. I didnt last very long in Darkfall, mostly because to the gap between vet and newb, and the amount of time in my day to play right now (after reading this thread, its even bigger than i though ) As others have said, I don't have the time to make up this gap right now, and the longer i wait, the larger it will be. I may try the game again when I have more time to play in a few months, but i honestly doubt it. Its too bad, because i really think i would like this game... A lot of people like to compare Darkfall to UO, but in this regard (the gap), they are very much different..
Haha, I played UO from 98 to AOS, and DF is absolutly nothing like UO.
The grind in DF is just mindboggling. I have played alot for almost a year, and I`m still just a medium player in stats and skill. I macro whenever I can, but the grind still overwhelms me. It`s been a long time since I thought about DF as a PVP mmo. We simply doesn`t have enough pvpers to play as intended. Now I just macro and kill a few npc when I`m online.
And don`t think the grind stops if you ever get a decent char. Then you need to grind for armor, weapons, money, enchants etc. Sure the fanbois will probably tell you you don`t need gear, just as they say you don`t need stats or skill. Well trust me they are lying, you`ll need all to be competative in DF.
It`s a shame the best game for years got fucked up by an insane grind for level, skill and stats.
I disagree 100%, I don't think the grind is too much for an MMORPG. I mean no one is putting a loaded pistol to your head and forcing you to do it are they? So you macro now and still complain about the grind despite cheating? What's the world coming to? It's like someone having dinner made for them then complaining about how long it took to wait! You do nothing, reap the benefits and then complain how long it took!
Not enough PvPers? Have you seen this video I made of last weekends siege? Click. On NA-1 there will be 6-9 sieges being dropped today, what is it about gamers today? An almost infantile sense of entitlement and holding bitter grudges against those that have earned the privelige of having certain skills and abilities. Why are you guys full of this terrible jealousy towards others? It really is very childish and especially distasteful to see adults displaying such infantile traits.
Get in a clan, you need armour there'll be a crafter you can buy it from. How is this different to anyother MMORPG? There is no requirement to grind smithing, Tasos isn't holding your wife and kids to ransom and forcing you to learn the skills is he?
What do you mean "got fucked up by an insane grind for level"? The grind as you put has been reduced, skills are now faster to learn than ever before. At what point did it become "fucked up" exactly?
You want stats because you think it'll make you competitive, when in fact high stats or not you can compete with a mastery in one two handed weapon and sharp shooter. Darkfall is hard to be competitive in no matter what your stats, it takes twitch skills and that is a fact. You may not have those skills and there will always be others better than you, but whining about it and crying for AV to throw you a crutch is just silly and quite frankly it got old two months ago,
Stat whining is just sooooooo 2009!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I to am very puzzled by this mindset that you should be able to compete with 1year vets after a couple weeks and have comparable stats. I honestly think this comes mostly from the wow generation where they are used to getting max level in a couple weeks. But I'll never understand the thought process.
Character progression is one of the main building blocks of MMORPGs. You are essentially saying you want you character to be maxed out in a month or so. Screw that! If it doesn't take my character at least a year to max out his progression I immediately lose any interest in playing that game. And this coming from an extremely casual player in terms of play time. Shallow and quick character progression = shallow game. Just play. After a month you'll be pounding on newbs like you were pounded on. And you'll slowly be catching up to those people who are maxxed out. You'll be able to contribute in sieges etc. You'll have fun, even though you'll still get pounded by the occasional veteran.
JUST SAY NO TO ULTRA-FAST CHARACTER PROGRESSION!!!
It's just a game man, and I criticize it as well. You came across bitchy, and I call it how I see it. Maybe this site's obsession with roses, rosey, and rose tinted glasses can end with your post. One can only hope.
I fail to see where i bitched, but regardless...
Theres a ton of things i like about Darkfall, and i honestly hope it grows.. The more success this game, and games like EvE have, the more developers will be drawn to making sandbox type games, and get away from the rut we seem to be stuck in..
Its already apparent (imo) that theres a small swing with games like Fallen Earth, Earthrise and Mortal (just too name a few).
It's just a game man, and I criticize it as well. You came across bitchy, and I call it how I see it. Maybe this site's obsession with roses, rosey, and rose tinted glasses can end with your post. One can only hope.
I fail to see where i bitched, but regardless...
Theres a ton of things i like about Darkfall, and i honestly hope it grows.. The more success this game, and games like EvE have, the more developers will be drawn to making sandbox type games, and get away from the rut we seem to be stuck in..
Its already apparent (imo) that theres a small swing with games like Fallen Earth, Earthrise and Mortal (just too name a few).
Getting way off topic now....
Well maybe it's me being bitchy then, it wouldn't be the first time.
I really do agree with you though, it seems that these types of game are finally making some headway. DF and FE seem to be arguably on the right path and satisfying more and more players (albeit slowly). I really hope MO and Earthrise find their audience as well. It's only going to help.
With EVE as the shining example, and with all the newcomers launched and on the way, who knows, maybe we will get away from the rut we're in. We bloody deserve it!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
Many of us DF players have real adult lives as well. You are not required to play for 5 hours a day to become competitive. I don't even play everyday, let alone 5 hours a day. Sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same game as some of you.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Many of us DF players have real adult lives as well. You are not required to play for 5 hours a day to become competitive. I don't even play everyday, let alone 5 hours a day. Sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same game as some of you.
I was just using his example, not my own..
I have other things occupying my time right now.. My point is, when i get done, and have my normal time back, i'll be even that much farther behind. I may try again, I may not...
Good grief.
This argument is showing up in DF now too? Of all the trends in MMORPGs these days that make me /facepalm, this is among the biggest of them.
"I don't have as much time to play as other people, and they all started before me and it's not fair that I can't compete with them as soon as I'd like so the game should be changed to better suit my schedule and play style".
FFS... Where does this mindset come from? Where ever it is, I'm glad I never caught it because it's so incredibly myopic and ego-centric that I'd be ashamed to think I shared it.
The progress curve does not need to change to suit the individual because of their schedule, or play-style, etc. The player has to set realistic expectations within the context of how much progress they can make given the time they have to play. If the game isn't well-suited to it then either adjust expectations... or find a game that better suits your playstyle.
How much or how little time you can or choose to play is not the developers' problem. They made the game for a specific niche of players, and those in that niche enjoy it just fine.
It's not "unfair" that people with more time to play, or with more time played overall, have made more progress... It's *common sense*.
If you want to compete with the end-gamers... then play the game, develop your character and improve... *just like they did*. And in fact, many of the original players had to go through an even *harsher* progression than newer players do. They did it. Others are in the process of doing it. You can do it too. If you *choose* not to, then accept it as your own choice and move on. Stop blaming the damn game design because it doesn't cater to your personal wants and desires.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Are you guys serious? My friend plays an average of 5 or so hours a day or less, and he current has 270HP, GA Mastery 30, earth magic 50 and working on witches brew.
His first month just renewed at the start of this week. You just have to know how to properly skill up and what things are the most important, of course he won't hold his own in a 1v1 against a veteran player just yet, but by the time his 2nd month renews he will more than likely be getting there.
Very serious...
some of us have a full time job, and a family..
5 hours a day to a game...everyday... for 2 months... just to get competative..
think about that for a minute..
5 Hours OR LESS. Some days he is not on at all when I am. He is also extremely full time given that he's got classes and is on the swimteam, and a job. If he can find the time to play I'm sure anyone can.
I am on usually as much as him but not every day but while I am on I know what to do to get myself prepared.
Not to toss around accusations, but when he's not actively playing for those 5 hours, how much of the rest of the day is he macroing or AFK swimming?
So much of Darkfall is skewed by the fact that so many players do these things, and many characters are literally logged into the game 23/7 (1hr maint. every day) even if they only actually play the game for a handful of hours actively.
I think the point a lot of people miss about those who complain of the gap is that to have any means of being competitive, or "catch up" as it were, they feel nearly obligated to take part in such things (macroing and AFK swimming, etc.). Sorry, but there's plenty of us who don't want to participate.
The other point that's missed quite commonly is the reality that not all of us want to be RAMBO, running around like a roid-raging freak with explosive-tipped arrows, causing explosions that only a mass of C4 and gasoline should create. We just want to hold our own. Plenty of people are obliged to grind and just "enjoy" the game, but when you're perpetually put in situations where defending yourself is essential and in many cases you must do so against players you'd have no chance against even if you got the jump, it makes it difficult. People I know have left the game due to that very reason, and it's not as though they're trying to avoid PVP, it's that it's inescapable and indefensible when trying to grind skills/stats. The options that remain? Bloodwall, macro, and afk swim. Yay, now I get to shoot/stab people at a wall for 1/3rd the skillup on melee/archery, and 1/6th on magic, all the while bleeding gold and taking part in activities that I'd otherwise deem against the spirit of any game, merely so I can close an gap that can only be closed with a mass amount of time no matter which way you slice it.
ALL of that said, I actually don't mind. As others have put it, it's about the journey, and not so much the destination. When the journey is fun, people don't mind. It does, however, become frustrating and lose its appeal when time and time again your progress or plain old fun is jumped on by people against whom you can't possibly compete, and it's times like that the daunting task ahead of you becomes so abundantly clear. I think what people really want isn't so much instant gratification, but merely a means to be competitive in a quicker manner.
As a side note, that hitting rocks or trees is the best way to raise stats is ridiculous, given that you risk nothing (not even your time - it can be done in 10min afk rounds) compared to a player who must actively use gear and pay attention to his task. Boost combat gains imo.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Well that might work in the themepark mmo you came from, but it doesn`t work for a ffa full-loot pvp mmo like Darkfall. I don`t have to tell you I`m right anymore, the subscriber numbers will do that for me. Darkfall is an empty shell of a game after almost a year, and there is NO sign ut will ever increase.
The only....I repeat....THE ONLY reason Darkfall failed as an mmo was the grind. We don`t get any new pvpers and we don`t have any casual players. You are right, Darkfall is a niche game. It`s a niche game for players with the time to play 5-15 hours EVERY day.
Jesus, I`m amazed you guys don`t see that this is wrong.
Well that might work in the themepark mmo you came from, but it doesn`t work for a ffa full-loot pvp mmo like Darkfall. I don`t have to tell you I`m right anymore, the subscriber numbers will do that for me. Darkfall is an empty shell of a game after almost a year, and there is NO sign ut will ever increase.
The only....I repeat....THE ONLY reason Darkfall failed as an mmo was the grind. We don`t get any new pvpers and we don`t have any casual players. You are right, Darkfall is a niche game. It`s a niche game for players with the time to play 5-15 hours EVERY day.
Jesus, I`m amazed you guys don`t see that this is wrong.
Darkfall is not an empty shell of a game and there is a major population boom. Darkfall is a success and it isn't going anywhere but up.
But that's just it... they don't win because they are better than me. They win because they have a synthetic advantage in terms of stats and character skills. I am quite confident I would pwn some of these people if the playing field was more level. And I can't help but be frustrated that I will probably never overcome the handicap.
And when I say the game is bleeding subscribers, I mean that out of 4 people who joined the game (me and 3 rl friends), I am the only one left. We also met a few people in game who we grouped with frequently and guess what... they have all quit too. I am the only one left and I too am starting to have my doubts about the game for the reasons I have already mentioned. When 4 people join together and only 1 is left after nearly 3 months, that to me seems like bleeding subscribers. And we were all very enthusiastic when we started. We had all been waiting for a hardcore full-loot FFA MMO for YEARS.
In the end, all of them quit for the same reason... they just couldn't handle the grind in addition to their rl responsibilities. Can you really blame them?
I have to disagree 100% with your conclusions. I've fought older players with higher stats and defeated them, also I've been owned by players with much lower stats. Stats do not equal victory.
If this were counter strike or battlefield or quake and you came on the forums and said "I've played for 3 months but older players are beating me, it's very frustrating" could you imagine the response? Yes this is an MMO but it's also an FPS and the laws of FPS apply in combat more so than the laws of the MMO. A synthetic advantage? They worked for the abilities their chars have and when fighting that advantage is a privelige they've earned and should be treated as such, you shouldn't be bitter about it. Also you're begining to sound like all those guys that lose in PvP and scream hacker or macroer due to sour grapes, don't get bitter and frustrated, get even!
Your biggest disadvantage in my opinion is your belief that any player older than you must have higher stats and is therefore unbeatable in PvP. You keep thinking like that and it will become a self full filling prophecy! I'm telling you now for a fact it isn't true, this isn't some lame level based button masher. Unless I'm halucinating it can't be true because I've defeated better chars and been defeated by lesser ones.
I suspect your only handicap is lack of a half decent clan, does your clan do PvP training with eachother? Do you raid or get raided often? My guess is the answer is no, get in a good clan ASAP before you get so pissed off you quit. If you're on EU-1 go to the MAG website in my sig, go to the Darkfall Recruitment forum, register and apply. If you're on NA-1 find someone here that's running a decent clan and join up. A lame clan is just a one way ticket to frustration and bordem in DFO.
Bleeding subscribers? I'd say they're low compared to the top flight MMORPGs but they are stable. There is a trickle of new players that actually stay and I feel that the retention rate is pretty good. MAG went from 18-20 players pre patch to 40-50 now post patch.
Join a decent clan, join a decent clan then join a decent clan. I can only say so much but unless you've got someone in game helping you my words aren't worth the steam off a sloppy turd! So do it now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
This.
WTF is with all the "DOOOOOOOOOM" posts today?
Have you people actually LOOKED around in the game and noticed how many people are playing?? I've ridden across 3/4 of Agon today, and the game is very nicely populated from what I can see.
We will get the real number from EU1 in a few weeks, and then we`ll see what the trend is.
df.urme.com/index.php
We will get the real number from EU1 in a few weeks, and then we`ll see what the trend is.
df.urme.com/index.php
Well his list has 41 members for MAG, with only 9 active. That's just BS. He has me as inactive and I'm online nearly every day! I'm looking at a bunch of guys ingame and on vent that are inactive according to that list! I looked through his assesment of MAG and I can state we have atleast 21 players that I play with most days of the week. Those are the ones I know of personally, I don't know where he gets his figure of 9 from but it's crap.
This is probably a snap shot of the server at a given time, not an accurate assesment of active/inactive players. Although it is probably the best we have at the moment, I'd just like to point that out. Also it doesn't include those that aren't clanned.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Happy 4th Aniversary with MMORPG Agricola :P
I'll be taking up your offer to join Darkfall soon, but first i've ordered Windows 7 and MassEffect 2
I'll probobly get the game in like 1 - 2 weeks, or maybe in a few days if im lucky
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4093/userbar759160.gif
Thanks
If you're on EU-1 send me a PM and we can help you out.
Welcome to Agon!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
That`s why we need a few weeks, and it will never be accurate. It can only show a trend on the numbers.
The scanning of player changes will be done 2 times per day.
An active player is:
--------------------
* Someone that increase/decrease in alignment
* New rank within a guild
* Someone that change guild
* Changes sex (Hey it might happen in the future, this is a sandbox after all!)
* Changes race
* New players that pops up in the scan
Only players that belong to a clan can be scanned.
That`s why we need a few weeks, and it will never be accurate. It can only show a trend on the numbers.
The scanning of player changes will be done 2 times per day.
An active player is:
--------------------
* Someone that increase/decrease in alignment
* New rank within a guild
* Someone that change guild
* Changes sex (Hey it might happen in the future, this is a sandbox after all!)
* Changes race
* New players that pops up in the scan
Only players that belong to a clan can be scanned.
That explains why I'm inactive. My alignment and rank haven't changed in a while, nor have I changed clan. I haven't had my bits cut off or a Michael Jackson and I've been playing for 2.5 months.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
So basically quite a few of you are AFK while you skill up which is against the TOS not to mention it's lame the game brings players to do this just to become competitive. Wow playing a game AFK, amazing! And AV wonders why they have retention issues lol. I bought the game and the 6 month sub and yah it's a cool concept, but I am also one that rarely logs in anymore after about 2 months of mindless grinding. I want to pvp, lol yah i know crazy huh? pvping in a pvp game, and I want to actually win some of those encounters rather than be roflpwn'd every time. Yah sure I could go kill the few new players that there are in starter cites, but what's the fun in that? It would probably just end up running more new players off anyways.
Currently Playing: Toying around with AoC and bored with Darkfall
Thinking of Playing: Fallen Earth or Darkfall after this months update.
Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, WoW, WAR, Vanguard, EvE, Requiem, PW, Lotro, Lineage2, AoC, SWG...
I'm taking the fifth on that, ahh but since this is the EU server I'll just say that I have no recolection of the events or playstlye that you describe and I'm always at the keyboard whenever I'm gathering, FACT!!!!!!!!
You want to PvP? What's the problem? What kind of clan are you in? Do they have a city? Do you raid? Siege?
If you're on EU-1 send me a pm and you can get hooked up with MAG. If on NA-1, WW III is taking place FFS! What 6 sieges are taking place today with some all out mayhem taking place? If you're not logged in or grinding all the time what do you expect? The mountain isn't gonna come to Mohammed you know?
Last weekend click moaning is gonna get you nowhere, you need to get in a clan, tool up and get stuck in.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Actually, i don't think anyone here said it should be changed, as much as they they said this is why i don't subscribe any more....
/shrug
Actually, i don't think anyone here said it should be changed, as much as they they said this is why i don't subscribe any more....
/shrug
Ok so you have no desire to see the game changed, and you are not going to subscribe. Are you here just to complain?
When most people get to that point they move on. I really don't get some of you. Bitching for the sake of bitching I guess.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Actually, i don't think anyone here said it should be changed, as much as they they said this is why i don't subscribe any more....
/shrug
Ok so you have no desire to see the game changed, and you are not going to subscribe. Are you here just to complain?
When most people get to that point they move on. I really don't get some of you. Bitching for the sake of bitching I guess.
Ahh... so if I want to see the game changed, i get a /facepalm, because i'm just being selfish, and i want the game all about me...
But if i don't want the game to change I'm only here to complain, and bitch...
OR..
Its a game that I am interested in, and like to keep up with, and perhaps resub to in the future, depending on how quickly i can get the interior of my house done. With this in mind, I occasionaly go to a forum dedicated to the game.
While there, I noticed someone brought up a topic which I was interested in, so i thought to add an opinion, being that this is a message booard and all... I didnt bitch.. i didn't say the game should be changed.. Yet i'm still in the wrong.
If you only want to hear how rosey and awesome your game is, I might suggest not coming to a board based on your beloved, on a somewhat neutral site..
Haha, I played UO from 98 to AOS, and DF is absolutly nothing like UO.
The grind in DF is just mindboggling. I have played alot for almost a year, and I`m still just a medium player in stats and skill. I macro whenever I can, but the grind still overwhelms me. It`s been a long time since I thought about DF as a PVP mmo. We simply doesn`t have enough pvpers to play as intended. Now I just macro and kill a few npc when I`m online.
And don`t think the grind stops if you ever get a decent char. Then you need to grind for armor, weapons, money, enchants etc. Sure the fanbois will probably tell you you don`t need gear, just as they say you don`t need stats or skill. Well trust me they are lying, you`ll need all to be competative in DF.
It`s a shame the best game for years got fucked up by an insane grind for level, skill and stats.
Haha, I played UO from 98 to AOS, and DF is absolutly nothing like UO.
The grind in DF is just mindboggling. I have played alot for almost a year, and I`m still just a medium player in stats and skill. I macro whenever I can, but the grind still overwhelms me. It`s been a long time since I thought about DF as a PVP mmo. We simply doesn`t have enough pvpers to play as intended. Now I just macro and kill a few npc when I`m online.
And don`t think the grind stops if you ever get a decent char. Then you need to grind for armor, weapons, money, enchants etc. Sure the fanbois will probably tell you you don`t need gear, just as they say you don`t need stats or skill. Well trust me they are lying, you`ll need all to be competative in DF.
It`s a shame the best game for years got fucked up by an insane grind for level, skill and stats.
I disagree 100%, I don't think the grind is too much for an MMORPG. I mean no one is putting a loaded pistol to your head and forcing you to do it are they? So you macro now and still complain about the grind despite cheating? What's the world coming to? It's like someone having dinner made for them then complaining about how long it took to wait! You do nothing, reap the benefits and then complain how long it took!
Not enough PvPers? Have you seen this video I made of last weekends siege? Click. On NA-1 there will be 6-9 sieges being dropped today, what is it about gamers today? An almost infantile sense of entitlement and holding bitter grudges against those that have earned the privelige of having certain skills and abilities. Why are you guys full of this terrible jealousy towards others? It really is very childish and especially distasteful to see adults displaying such infantile traits.
Get in a clan, you need armour there'll be a crafter you can buy it from. How is this different to anyother MMORPG? There is no requirement to grind smithing, Tasos isn't holding your wife and kids to ransom and forcing you to learn the skills is he?
What do you mean "got fucked up by an insane grind for level"? The grind as you put has been reduced, skills are now faster to learn than ever before. At what point did it become "fucked up" exactly?
You want stats because you think it'll make you competitive, when in fact high stats or not you can compete with a mastery in one two handed weapon and sharp shooter. Darkfall is hard to be competitive in no matter what your stats, it takes twitch skills and that is a fact. You may not have those skills and there will always be others better than you, but whining about it and crying for AV to throw you a crutch is just silly and quite frankly it got old two months ago,
Stat whining is just sooooooo 2009!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I to am very puzzled by this mindset that you should be able to compete with 1year vets after a couple weeks and have comparable stats. I honestly think this comes mostly from the wow generation where they are used to getting max level in a couple weeks. But I'll never understand the thought process.
Character progression is one of the main building blocks of MMORPGs. You are essentially saying you want you character to be maxed out in a month or so. Screw that! If it doesn't take my character at least a year to max out his progression I immediately lose any interest in playing that game. And this coming from an extremely casual player in terms of play time. Shallow and quick character progression = shallow game. Just play. After a month you'll be pounding on newbs like you were pounded on. And you'll slowly be catching up to those people who are maxxed out. You'll be able to contribute in sieges etc. You'll have fun, even though you'll still get pounded by the occasional veteran.
JUST SAY NO TO ULTRA-FAST CHARACTER PROGRESSION!!!
Man I hate what wow has done to this genre...
I fail to see where i bitched, but regardless...
Theres a ton of things i like about Darkfall, and i honestly hope it grows.. The more success this game, and games like EvE have, the more developers will be drawn to making sandbox type games, and get away from the rut we seem to be stuck in..
Its already apparent (imo) that theres a small swing with games like Fallen Earth, Earthrise and Mortal (just too name a few).
Getting way off topic now....
I fail to see where i bitched, but regardless...
Theres a ton of things i like about Darkfall, and i honestly hope it grows.. The more success this game, and games like EvE have, the more developers will be drawn to making sandbox type games, and get away from the rut we seem to be stuck in..
Its already apparent (imo) that theres a small swing with games like Fallen Earth, Earthrise and Mortal (just too name a few).
Getting way off topic now....
Well maybe it's me being bitchy then, it wouldn't be the first time.
I really do agree with you though, it seems that these types of game are finally making some headway. DF and FE seem to be arguably on the right path and satisfying more and more players (albeit slowly). I really hope MO and Earthrise find their audience as well. It's only going to help.
With EVE as the shining example, and with all the newcomers launched and on the way, who knows, maybe we will get away from the rut we're in. We bloody deserve it!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb