Yes but you are asking for balance in an open world pvp game with no instances.
For pvp balance there needs to be instances.
Simple concept.
/facepalm
I am only talking about balance 1v1. That is all I have ever been talking about in this thread...
THAT is a simple concept. Not sure why people are having a hard time with it.
You also included Asheron's Call in there, a game that I am a veteran of. You could play 1 year and not catch up to the magic resist and hp of a 126 that was macroed up there. Skill ment alot but so did character building, just like DF
That being said i would like that they would speed up stats gain by about 25%
/facepalm I am only talking about balance 1v1. That is all I have ever been talking about in this thread... THAT is a simple concept. Not sure why people are having a hard time with it.
Many of us understand what you're asking for, but we simply do not believe it is a good idea. As much as it shocks and awes you, many of us like the game the way it is. If you want to be so competitive 1 vs 1 you're going to have to put the time into your character. It's not difficult at all, especially if you're not expecting to woop ass in your first week. If you can't/don't want to, then kindly move along. Don't they have a couple games already for the kind of playstyle you want?
BTW facepalming 'till your forehead is red and throwing a hissy fit isn't going to get you far around here.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The graph's point is moot. All its saying is to make 50str and vit = 350 instead of ~300HP. Stats already level up on that curve, their affect is linear. But the point is, 300 hp = competetive level against anyone. Once you hit 300 hp, someone having 100 more hp than you isn't going to make a drastic difference on your ability to kill them. All 100hp ammounts to is 2-4 extra hits. Yea really game breaking.
As for the skills you "unlock" based on your stats, almost all of them are worthless and the ones that are worth anything don't affect dmg/defense enough to matter (omg 5extra dps game braking omg).
Jesus christ people, DON'T LOOK AT THE EXACT NUMBERS OF THE GRAPH, LOOK AT THE GOD DAMN CONCEPT IT IS TALKING ABOUT.
As it stands right now, THE BENEFITS YOU GAIN DURING STAT PROGRESSION ARE L I N E A R. Melipone, myself, and many others are arguing to make THE BENEFITS YOU GAIN DURING STAT PROGRESSION NON- L I N E A R.
So, I advocate that when you progress from strength level 31-32, YOU GAIN MORE BENEFIT TO YOUR CHARACTER than when you progress from strength level 71-72, as an example. My god, do you people really not understand these graphs?
*edit* In regards to the red, these graphs have NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME. Stats level up on a non-linear curve, but their benefits level up LINEARLY. The top graph in that link shows how STAT BENEFITS LEVEL UP LINEARLY. The bottom graph shows how STAT BENEFITS LEVEL UP NON-LINEARLY.
WE ARE SUPPORTING STATBENEFITS LEVELING UP NON-LINEARLY, NOT STAT LEVELS THEMSELVES.
Read what I said instead of raging. You're entire argument is made moot when there isn't a huge advantage for someone who has 70str vs someone who has 50 str. Since stats already level non-linerarly, there isn't a point to make their affect non-linear. It takes about 1-2 months to get to 300 HP, it takes more than a year to reach cap, hell it can take longer than a year to reach 400 HP even for the all-night macroers. This gap that you keep harping about doesn't exist after the first few weeks of playing.
Edit:
Listen all you UO fanboys out there because I'm about to drop some hard truth on you. UO wasn't a balanced PvP game, nor was it a game were skill was the determining factor. It was a game of builds and counter builds just like every cap game on the market. That doesn't mean UO wasn't a good game, or it wasn't a good PvP game. It does mean that making DFO suddenly have a cap won't instantly balance the playing field, it will simply shift it more to the power gamers who can find the best builds and the best build's counter because they'll find them quicker. I like the way the game is now because right now the out come of a fight is largely (90% I'd say) determined by a player's skill not their character. Thats best for a PvP game don't you think.
Originally posted by xpiher I like the way the game is now because right now the out come of a fight is largely (90% I'd say) determined by a player's skill not their character. Thats best for a PvP game don't you think.
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Originally posted by xpiher I like the way the game is now because right now the out come of a fight is largely (90% I'd say) determined by a player's skill not their character. Thats best for a PvP game don't you think.
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by xpiher I like the way the game is now because right now the out come of a fight is largely (90% I'd say) determined by a player's skill not their character. Thats best for a PvP game don't you think.
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
Have to conclude...I agree. They worked for it. Some did it by macroing, etc. In fact the magnitutde of cheating in this game may never be known, but some people like me...really did do all thier shit by the numbers IN game. So I have to agree with you.
They increase your HP / stamina / mana pool ( transfer spells 4tw) I ll give you that thats the biggest impact of stats..but shoudln't vets be better then newbs in having bigger life pool etc ? Thy give you access to skills which increase your edge (stamina / health regeneration and others) some minor utility skills to having less downtime nothing of it decides a single fight... They increase your dmg with your fight style. only by +1 per 10 level...in the order of importance they are the least factor with active skills being most important.. And if you count all together stats give a damn big edge over other players who arent playing since launch or hardcore. Get your masteries up to be competitive..don't look at stats.. Denying it is like saying DF is WoW.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by xpiher I like the way the game is now because right now the out come of a fight is largely (90% I'd say) determined by a player's skill not their character. Thats best for a PvP game don't you think.
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
They increase your HP / stamina / mana pool ( transfer spells 4tw) I ll give you that thats the biggest impact of stats..but shoudln't vets be better then newbs in having bigger life pool etc ? Because its pvp game which is all around pvp and not e-pen game which is all around who got most edge over other players. Thy give you access to skills which increase your edge (stamina / health regeneration and others) some minor utility skills to having less downtime nothing of it decides a single fight... Imao you should stop griefing newbs and get started to fight some people on higher skill levels if you say such bullshit. They increase your dmg with your fight style. only by +1 per 10 level...in the order of importance they are the least factor with active skills being most important.. Thats huge impact in PvP game with full loot. Lets take for example strengh difference of 50 strengh. Medium player vs old vet. Thats difference of 5 dmg. And in a fight where you hit an enemy 10 hits its dmg difference of 50!! and if you say that mean nothing you should go try to get these 50 extra hp. And if you count all together stats give a damn big edge over other players who arent playing since launch or hardcore. Get your masteries up to be competitive..don't look at stats.. Reading comprehension isnt your strengh right? Stats do matter only carebears deny these fact. Stats alone dont give you free win, but they increase your chances by decent amount. Denying it is like saying DF is WoW.
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players.
If they quit, then they would quit anyway. Sooner or later. These people wouldnt stick to game for long.
Older players quit
Why because they got more enemys or because they got no more free wins?
and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit
Yeah because they actually can start doing pvp. Yeah you are right dude. Lets increase grind so we get even more people. Sure dude.
. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in.
Zerg alliance, which is know for being afraid of any bib scale open battle.
Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server.
And where do you got this wisdom from? There is no prove that approves your theory or neither denys it. Just QQ about QQers doesnt say you are right.
They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here?
Because Shadowbane was level bassed and not skilled based. You are now comparing WoW / UO hybrid with DF. You could aswell spit on DF by doing such comparings.
Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
Because its fucking old. Graphic is even worse then DF. Wonder that i didnt get eye cancer from it.
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make?
Having fight instead just donating to vets?
You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask.
Aks racial chat and you will get an answer pretty fast. If its high stats vet you will find it out np.
You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
As you get longer fights with higher stats and didnt get doomrolled in few seconds.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
And how the fuck did they earnt these privelige? By playing longer is "earning"? Imao dude you need to go outside and get a job then you will know what earning is.
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
Please stop nerdrage. You lose just your credibility.
For me i dont see any problems in increasing early stats gain (till 50 stats). I see it anyway coming as AV isnt that plain dumb to ingore the fact that grinding is scaring away people. And after all AV is company which is interessted in gaining money. And whats the easyest way to gain money? New subscribers who buy boxes and stay to play the game.
DF is fun. But the problem is most of people dont stay long enough to see it, as grind fucks them off. I dont mind grinding as i played before such games.
These are just my 50 cents. GoGo giev me more nerd rage
They increase your HP / stamina / mana pool ( transfer spells 4tw) I ll give you that thats the biggest impact of stats..but shoudln't vets be better then newbs in having bigger life pool etc ? Because its pvp game which is all around pvp and not e-pen game which is all around who got most edge over other players. Thy give you access to skills which increase your edge (stamina / health regeneration and others) some minor utility skills to having less downtime nothing of it decides a single fight... Imao you should stop griefing newbs and get started to fight some people on higher skill levels if you say such bullshit. They increase your dmg with your fight style. only by +1 per 10 level...in the order of importance they are the least factor with active skills being most important.. Thats huge impact in PvP game with full loot. Lets take for example strengh difference of 50 strengh. Medium player vs old vet. Thats difference of 5 dmg. And in a fight where you hit an enemy 10 hits its dmg difference of 50!! and if you say that mean nothing you should go try to get these 50 extra hp. And if you count all together stats give a damn big edge over other players who arent playing since launch or hardcore. Get your masteries up to be competitive..don't look at stats.. Reading comprehension isnt your strengh right? Stats do matter only carebears deny these fact. Stats alone dont give you free win, but they increase your chances by decent amount. Denying it is like saying DF is WoW.
Read -> Think -> Post! Thank you!
Right back to you !
with the remark that Darkfall is primary a MMORPG and not a PvP shooter...thanks !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
They increase your HP / stamina / mana pool ( transfer spells 4tw) I ll give you that thats the biggest impact of stats..but shoudln't vets be better then newbs in having bigger life pool etc ? Because its pvp game which is all around pvp and not e-pen game which is all around who got most edge over other players. Thy give you access to skills which increase your edge (stamina / health regeneration and others) some minor utility skills to having less downtime nothing of it decides a single fight... Imao you should stop griefing newbs and get started to fight some people on higher skill levels if you say such bullshit. They increase your dmg with your fight style. only by +1 per 10 level...in the order of importance they are the least factor with active skills being most important.. Thats huge impact in PvP game with full loot. Lets take for example strengh difference of 50 strengh. Medium player vs old vet. Thats difference of 5 dmg. And in a fight where you hit an enemy 10 hits its dmg difference of 50!! and if you say that mean nothing you should go try to get these 50 extra hp. And if you count all together stats give a damn big edge over other players who arent playing since launch or hardcore. Get your masteries up to be competitive..don't look at stats.. Reading comprehension isnt your strengh right? Stats do matter only carebears deny these fact. Stats alone dont give you free win, but they increase your chances by decent amount. Denying it is like saying DF is WoW.
Read -> Think -> Post! Thank you!
Right back to you !
with the remark that Darkfall is primary a MMORPG and not a PvP shooter...thanks !
Darkfall is primary a MMORPG which is all around PVP and nothing else!
Thats the main point. In pvp all people want to match each other and in Darkfall you can do it only after you grinded your ass off.
Typical last argument of fanboys if they dont know further.
I like Darkfall but i dont try to show it as it were a brilliant. Darkfall is rough diamond. You need to polish (grind) it till you get the shiny brilliant (PvP). And thats why i try to show the people how the game really is. They dont get disappointed and dont rage about game, as it already got bad mouth reputation.
What's kinda sad in watching these posts on the DF boards here is the sheer amount of wasted interest in this game. There's obviously a huge lull right now with other games stagnating and tons of players are seeking a new home. Every day I see post after post of wary people wondering if DF might be for them, and that doesn't even begin to include the many more who read and are silent rather than post their every thought. The point is, this interest is going to waste for the exact reasons the game's biggest fans are its biggest fans, and the irony is that they're doing more damage to their "precious" than anyone wanting change for the game could possibly do.
The only thing hardcore about Darkfall right now is its grind, and I'm finally killing my playtime in the game now (I bought the game+6mo so it's active either way) to wait for changes. Otherwise, mine is a subscription that won't be renewed. It's annoying because the gameplay and mechanics in this game are outstanding, and after playing the FPS style, I'd have a hell of a time going back to your typical tab-target and 1-2-3 spam style of play. However, it's just too much that to want to feel competitive and effective you'll need to play the game (or keep it running w/macros or AFK swimming) 24/7 just to try and close a gap that's far larger than anyone who's a fan of the game wants to admit. "Oh, you only need 300 HP to be competitive" is a ridiculous and tired argument coming from players who know that 300 HP only makes a player go from a squish under their shoe to a speed bump (yeah, 25-40% less HP than your opponent is 'no big deal' at all) when the lower health player takes more damage and deals less, with less utility and/or options for fighting style.
At any rate, I don't know and kinda doubt a post like this one has any bearing on what Aventurine will or won't do, but it is a shame that there's so many in DFO who don't want the status quo touched for fear of losing their precious advantages (or possibilities of them). Besides, changes to stat/skill gain won't introduce an "NGE" at all, it'll merely upset the balance of things. Regardless, for there to be any actual impact like that of NGE's of the past, there needs to be a substantial player base to begin with, and right now there isn't. TBH I think the biggest fear probably stems from the idea of "what will we do?" if the grind were reduced. I mean, I'm sure it's the primary motivating factor in the sandbox right now that you need to log in and get this or that skillup or work on this, farm that, etc., and I think the idea of lowering the grind leaves a lot of players scared of the concept of such changes. Just my opinion anyway...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for.
There you go, over-exaggerating again. No one in this thread has said anything about wanting shit in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for (or exploited mobs and AFK macroed for a year for, whatever). I love how you continuously throw blanket statements towards people who merely want to make the game better and population higher.
Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
Yes, because when Aventurine increased skill gain everyone quit and there wasn't a huge influx of new players *eyeroll*
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
*sigh* This is getting so old it's not even funny anymore. No one is saying they want anything handed to them on a plate, they just don't want to have to grind their souls away to get anywhere. Hell, even YOU yourself say that you work at home and "semi-AFK" harvest all day. GUESS WHAT, MOST PEOPLE CAN'T DO THAT, and you shouldn't HAVE to do that to gain stat levels anyway. You should be able to PLAY the game for a couple of hours a day and get the same gains you have gotten as you AFK harvest all day long. If you think differently, then my god this genre is going to hell.
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
Darkfall WAS meant to be a niche game, a niche game for a FFA, full loot PvP style game, not "who can grind the most and spend more time in game AFK harvesting". I think you're referring to the wrong "niche" of players that Aventurine wanted.
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
It's not about "getting owned and crying" like you continuously try to make it out to seem. I have never once QQed to anyone in game, EVER. I have never ONCE raged to anyone who killed me, even if I was furious after losing 30K worth of shit. That is part of the game, and if I couldn't handle it, I wouldn't be playing.
What I CAN'T stand, however, is that if I want to get a competitive character from a fresh start (which I don't, since my character is a VETERAN character), it takes countless hours of grinding away doing boring crap to accomplish that, and even then, a new player will NEVER catch up to a veteran, EVER.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
First off, A TON of older players got their stats and skill levels through AFK macroing, exploiting bugged high-end mobs, and utilizing a shit ton of broken game mechanics. How do I know this? Because I was there during launch, and you weren't. Yes, SOME veterans have honestly earned their stats, and I am not one to try to take away what they've earned. That is why I support melipone's suggestion, which you continue to ignore, BECAUSE it doesn't take away what veterans have earned, keeps the grind the exact same, AND gets newer players into "competitive" status quicker, NOT "easy-mode" or "handed on a plate" like you try to claim. The new player STILL has to put a lot of work into getting competitive, but with that suggestion they can spend more time PvPing and less time grinding and doing boring crap.
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
There you go again, correlating reducing the grind to making it Counter Strike or Halo 3, when NO ONE is asking for anything in regards to that. And yes, I will be checking Mortal Online out, primarily BECAUSE it doesn't focus on the grind like Darkfall does.
Responses in yellow. It's obvious you refuse to listen to any of the arguments Agrikola and instead run around yelling, "Shut up QQers! You want easy-mode WoW carebear crap. If you want to reduce the grind, go play Halo 3!"
Yes, because reducing the INSANE grind that is in Darkfall, a grind that is bigger and more painstaking then most MMOs on the market today, would certainly make it like Halo 3.....
What i don't underrtstand is how outa mices it can become elephants.
Think about it , even 50 level ahead in stats means +5 more of a damage, a dodged blow can be everything from +10 to +50 avoided damage respectively a succesfully aimed and landed blow can be an additionally +10 to +50 hit..discussion needs perspective and proportions..,
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for.
There you go, over-exaggerating again. No one in this thread has said anything about wanting shit in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for (or exploited mobs and AFK macroed for a year for, whatever). I love how you continuously throw blanket statements towards people who merely want to make the game better and population higher.
Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
Yes, because when Aventurine increased skill gain everyone quit and there wasn't a huge influx of new players *eyeroll*
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
*sigh* This is getting so old it's not even funny anymore. No one is saying they want anything handed to them on a plate, they just don't want to have to grind their souls away to get anywhere. Hell, even YOU yourself say that you work at home and "semi-AFK" harvest all day. GUESS WHAT, MOST PEOPLE CAN'T DO THAT, and you shouldn't HAVE to do that to gain stat levels anyway. You should be able to PLAY the game for a couple of hours a day and get the same gains you have gotten as you AFK harvest all day long. If you think differently, then my god this genre is going to hell.
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
Darkfall WAS meant to be a niche game, a niche game for a FFA, full loot PvP style game, not "who can grind the most and spend more time in game AFK harvesting". I think you're referring to the wrong "niche" of players that Aventurine wanted.
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
It's not about "getting owned and crying" like you continuously try to make it out to seem. I have never once QQed to anyone in game, EVER. I have never ONCE raged to anyone who killed me, even if I was furious after losing 30K worth of shit. That is part of the game, and if I couldn't handle it, I wouldn't be playing.
What I CAN'T stand, however, is that if I want to get a competitive character from a fresh start (which I don't, since my character is a VETERAN character), it takes countless hours of grinding away doing boring crap to accomplish that, and even then, a new player will NEVER catch up to a veteran, EVER.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
First off, A TON of older players got their stats and skill levels through AFK macroing, exploiting bugged high-end mobs, and utilizing a shit ton of broken game mechanics. How do I know this? Because I was there during launch, and you weren't. Yes, SOME veterans have honestly earned their stats, and I am not one to try to take away what they've earned. That is why I support melipone's suggestion, which you continue to ignore, BECAUSE it doesn't take away what veterans have earned, keeps the grind the exact same, AND gets newer players into "competitive" status quicker, NOT "easy-mode" or "handed on a plate" like you try to claim. The new player STILL has to put a lot of work into getting competitive, but with that suggestion they can spend more time PvPing and less time grinding and doing boring crap.
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
There you go again, correlating reducing the grind to making it Counter Strike or Halo 3, when NO ONE is asking for anything in regards to that. And yes, I will be checking Mortal Online out, primarily BECAUSE it doesn't focus on the grind like Darkfall does.
Responses in yellow. It's obvious you refuse to listen to any of the arguments Agrikola and instead run around yelling, "Shut up QQers! You want easy-mode WoW carebear crap. If you want to reduce the grind, go play Halo 3!"
Yes, because reducing the INSANE grind that is in Darkfall, a grind that is bigger and more painstaking then most MMOs on the market today, would certainly make it like Halo 3.....
At least someone who cares more about game and not about fucking edge over other players
Why is not ok to have one unique game like Darkfall? Why does it have to change to accomodate some of you?
I frequent four different internet forums (all unrelated in subject), and this forum contains the highest number of whiney little brats by a very noticeable margin. They're everywhere on the internet of course, but this is a cesspool. What makes some of you so demanding, self-entitled, and prone to hissy fits?
After reading what Agricola had to say, I'm surprised that some of you havn't just agreed to disagree. Instead some of you are making indirect comments about what others have said, examples being "stupid" and "retarded". Some of you seem to also have an appreciation of circles, as that's the only place you're all going.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
At least someone who cares more about game and not about fucking edge over other players
I'm one of the many Darkfall players that currently do not have the "edge". I still completely disagree with what you're asking for.
There are soooooooooooo many games out there that have already been manipulated into what you're looking for. Choose one.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Wonder why noone has brought in racial differences as in "nooooes i am elf and start at 15 vit and that dwarf starts at 25..thats 10 vit MORE...that makes 20 HP difference !!!!!!!!" ... and thats 2 - 3 blows as fresh newbs..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Why is not ok to have one unique game like Darkfall? Why does it have to change to accomodate some of you? I frequent four different internet forums (all unrelated in subject), and this forum contains the highest number of whiney little brats by a very noticeable margin. They're everywhere on the internet of course, but this is a cesspool. What makes some of you so demanding, self-entitled, and prone to hissy fits? After reading what Agricola had to say, I'm surprised that some of you havn't just agreed to disagree. Instead some of you are making indirect comments about what others have said, examples being "stupid" and "retarded". Some of you seem to also have an appreciation of circles, as that's the only place you're all going.
Thanks, I disagree with the people that want stat gain quickened up that's all. The main trouble is we've got one side saying the idea sux and it's the next NGE and the other saying it's the thing that will save DFO (wasn't aware it needed saving myself!).
What I keep asking for is some kind of evidence as to why they think this would improve the game and bring in more players? I have played other games where the grind was harsh then taken away or it was made less harsh in some manner and it killed the population each time. What always happens is the older playerbase that makes up 90% of the longterm most loyal subscribers gets decimated and many quit then go on to bad mouth the company/game.
I want to know why they think it would be different this time? I just want to see some figures or some kind of research, not some graph that my 12 year old son could have drawn on MS paint with a curve that makes him feel happy!
This is just going in circles and we need to agree to disagree because it just looks embaressing having this thread on the forums.
I've played for just over 2.5 months and un buffed have over 325HP. With my title quest buff (+4) my strenght is over 70, vit in the mid 60s and my wisdom is over 75. Did I enjoy the grind? Yes actualy I did! Now there's a bunch of people making multiple threads all over the net screaming to take away my enjoyment to save DFO. I don't want it to happen, it happened to me in SWG and I don't want to see it happen here. Show me some evidence or some kind of data to back up why you think it'll help DFO not a "Well it'll make new players happy so subs will go up".
Well if it took those new players a month to get 400hp I reckon the same number would still quit because most don't like getting rolled in a full loot pvp game anyway. Telling them to stick it out a month is not going to make a difference, I see them everyday usually quiting after 3 days because it's boring and they get frustrated dieing. Making them wait a shorter time for stats won't help as you need more time to build twitch skills!
But what I said is falling on deaf ears, atleast Aventurine agrees with me anyway so I guess there'll be no NGE this year!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Why is not ok to have one unique game like Darkfall? Why does it have to change to accomodate some of you? What 'unique' part of Darkfall are you trying to protect? Its grind? I frequent four different internet forums (all unrelated in subject), and this forum contains the highest number of whiney little brats by a very noticeable margin. They're everywhere on the internet of course, but this is a cesspool. What makes some of you so demanding, self-entitled, and prone to hissy fits? Who is throwing a hissy fit here? Who's whining? It's a discussion on the game and its mechanics. I think you're mistaking frustration with those who refuse to see someone else's point of view with that of a whiner. It's annoying to make well-constructed and thought-out posts, only for them to be skimmed through by a "brat" who is kicking and screaming at the thought of "his" game being changed. After reading what Agricola had to say, I'm surprised that some of you havn't just agreed to disagree. Instead some of you are making indirect comments about what others have said, examples being "stupid" and "retarded". Some of you seem to also have an appreciation of circles, as that's the only place you're all going. Yeah, Agricola's word on the subject should indeed be final since you share his view. Noone should try and help give him perspective on where they're coming from because clearly, he is right and his word is good.
Honestly, you say to go choose one of the "many games out there that have already been manipulated into what you're looking for", but in this style of play there's only two: Darkfall and Mortal Online. MO is a steaming pile of crap, and DFO is an outstanding game. I'd be more than inclined to accept its mechanics and let the topic wither away and die if it weren't the single most discussed issue across the DFO boards and here, which I assume means I'm not alone in my feelings on the subject. I mean really, go look at the official forums, and look here. What are the most discussed issues? The grind (or gap between new and vet players, as it were), macro/exploiters, and in a distant third, hackers. Beyond that, the issues discussed about DFO are trivial at best. This issue is the one thing that people are constantly concerned about and the thing that drives the largest number of players to not play. Hell, even look at people who want to try Darkfall. What is their number one concern with doing so? Time investment to enjoy the game.
Bottom line is, just because it's not an opinion you share doesn't make it a whine. In all honesty, your post comes off as the whine to my eyes, seeing as you can't seem to stand the idea of people discussing topics in...a discussion board. It's like you're covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming "STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!1" because people are sharing opinions about your game. Pfft.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Thanks, I disagree with the people that want stat gain quickened up that's all. The main trouble is we've got one side saying the idea sux and it's the next NGE and the other saying it's the thing that will save DFO (wasn't aware it needed saving myself!). There's some new thing out trying to track the active population and it's showing rather abysmal numbers, even with scaling. That fact aside, I think people can only speak from within their circles of friends (in-game or out ), and how many of them continue to play or move on, and why. By and large, these types of people are the ones you see (like myself) who feel the need for change. What I keep asking for is some kind of evidence as to why they think this would improve the game and bring in more players? I have played other games where the grind was harsh then taken away or it was made less harsh in some manner and it killed the population each time. What always happens is the older playerbase that makes up 90% of the longterm most loyal subscribers gets decimated and many quit then go on to bad mouth the company/game. What examples do you have of this? You want evidence, so do I. Darkfall is a game that's surviving on a very small number of players, and nowhere near the numbers it's intended for no matter who you talk to. It's an MMO, and it's never been my experience in MMOs that more players = less fun (I guess you can cite specific incidences, but I mean global population). I want to know why they think it would be different this time? I just want to see some figures or some kind of research, not some graph that my 12 year old son could have drawn on MS paint with a curve that makes him feel happy! Who needs a graph or some made up statistics that one side or the other will simply dispute? The reality of it is that this is the hottest topic on hand concerning the game, and that stretches out to the official boards as well. Topic after topic, forum page after forum page, this is the general issue that is viewed and discussed more than any other on the game whatsoever. It's the status quo fighting those who feel the need for change in every instance. Go look for yourself - I don't have the time nor inclination to count out how many thousands of posts, and tens of thousands of views this issue has over others, but a quick glance makes it very, very clear. This is just going in circles and we need to agree to disagree because it just looks embaressing having this thread on the forums. It's going in circles simply because neither side wants to concede. However, I don't see what's so embarrassing about it. I'm not ashamed to voice my opinion, and if nothing else it gives Darkfall that much more attention. On top of it all, it gives new or curious former players seeking information what they need. I've played for just over 2.5 months and un buffed have over 325HP. With my title quest buff (+4) my strenght is over 70, vit in the mid 60s and my wisdom is over 75. Did I enjoy the grind? Yes actualy I did! Now there's a bunch of people making multiple threads all over the net screaming to take away my enjoyment to save DFO. I don't want it to happen, it happened to me in SWG and I don't want to see it happen here. Show me some evidence or some kind of data to back up why you think it'll help DFO not a "Well it'll make new players happy so subs will go up". I met a guy in-game that's almost exactly like you. He works from home, and his character stays logged in almost literally 23 hours a day. We started playing within 3 days of each other. After both our first months were up, I had higher archery, and 2h melee skill (incidentally many other 'general' skills) than he did, but the gap was extremely close (within a mere 1-2 points in all cases). However, while working from home he constantly kept a Darkfall tab opened, and kept his character logging or mining all day long. If he needed to be away for a bit, he'd AFK swim. Conversely, I didn't gather much, and not being a huge fan of macro or AFK swimming, I didn't do those things. Even though we'd both actively participated in a nearly identical amount of combat, my STR and VIT were both in their low-mid 30s. His were pushing 50. My first month ended with me at around 230ish HP, and him over 260. That doesn't even count his WIS etc.. We both loved the grind in terms of combat, but I refuse to spend my playtime staring at my character beating on rocks, and don't particularly care to leave my PC running 24/7 to macro or AFK swim. The consequence of my decision was extremely clear. The thing is, noone's trying to take away your enjoyment of DFO. You can still play exactly the same way you do now, the difference would be that you'd make more progress while doing so, and wouldn't have to look at a year-long grind to near the game's peak. I say a year, which in your case would be shorter, and in mine, longer. Do you really need the carrot dangling in front of you to head out and grind as you do? I don't, but I think you're scared of what happens if that carrot disappears. Well if it took those new players a month to get 400hp I reckon the same number would still quit because most don't like getting rolled in a full loot pvp game anyway. Telling them to stick it out a month is not going to make a difference, I see them everyday usually quiting after 3 days because it's boring and they get frustrated dieing. Making them wait a shorter time for stats won't help as you need more time to build twitch skills! Time and time again you make this argument, and it's really just absurd. Noone's asking for this. On top of that, your very playstyle negates the risk (much like my friend) in "getting rolled in a full loot pvp game". Why? Well, who cares what you lose when, as you work, you merely move your char a bit, and gain both massive profit (money, materials, and stats) and reap its benefits of high crafting skills, which negates any losses you might encounter when you actively play? You guys truly risk nothing (no real time or effort, actively anyway) and for you it's a complete and utter non-issue. This makes you just not care. How you can't see how absurdly advantageous that is for you is beyond me, but not everyone has their character skilling up, making profit for no risk or attention, all day every day. You really need to learn how to put yourself in someone else's shoes before combating those who enjoy the game as much as you so diligently. But what I said is falling on deaf ears, atleast Aventurine agrees with me anyway so I guess there'll be no NGE this year!
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Why is not ok to have one unique game like Darkfall? Why does it have to change to accomodate some of you? What 'unique' part of Darkfall are you trying to protect? Its grind? The fact that you need to put in time to develop your character, while at the same time I can kill other players much higher in stats than me with shear skill. Yes I have done this. Believe it or not some players aren't very good at the game, others just might be having an off day. I frequent four different internet forums (all unrelated in subject), and this forum contains the highest number of whiney little brats by a very noticeable margin. They're everywhere on the internet of course, but this is a cesspool. What makes some of you so demanding, self-entitled, and prone to hissy fits? Who is throwing a hissy fit here? Who's whining? It's a discussion on the game and its mechanics. I think you're mistaking frustration with those who refuse to see someone else's point of view with that of a whiner. It's annoying to make well-constructed and thought-out posts, only for them to be skimmed through by a "brat" who is kicking and screaming at the thought of "his" game being changed. LOL. Calm down. After reading what Agricola had to say, I'm surprised that some of you havn't just agreed to disagree. Instead some of you are making indirect comments about what others have said, examples being "stupid" and "retarded". Some of you seem to also have an appreciation of circles, as that's the only place you're all going. Yeah, Agricola's word on the subject should indeed be final since you share his view. Noone should try and help give him perspective on where they're coming from because clearly, he is right and his word is good. Look up what it means to agree to disagree.
Honestly, you say to go choose one of the "many games out there that have already been manipulated into what you're looking for", but in this style of play there's only two: Darkfall and Mortal Online. MO is a steaming pile of crap, and DFO is an outstanding game. I'd be more than inclined to accept its mechanics and let the topic wither away and die if it weren't the single most discussed issue across the DFO boards and here, which I assume means I'm not alone in my feelings on the subject. I mean really, go look at the official forums, and look here. What are the most discussed issues? The grind (or gap between new and vet players, as it were), macro/exploiters, and in a distant third, hackers. Beyond that, the issues discussed about DFO are trivial at best. This issue is the one thing that people are constantly concerned about and the thing that drives the largest number of players to not play. Hell, even look at people who want to try Darkfall. What is their number one concern with doing so? Time investment to enjoy the game.
Bottom line is, just because it's not an opinion you share doesn't make it a whine. In all honesty, your post comes off as the whine to my eyes, seeing as you can't seem to stand the idea of people discussing topics in...a discussion board. It's like you're covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming "STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!1" because people are sharing opinions about your game. Pfft.
I have no issue discussing other people's opinions about the game, even if I do not share their views. I have done this for a while on these forums, with many different users. You and a couple of other users are continually going in the same circle, and your stance is obviously not going to change. This is the point where it becomes whining. It's childish to repeatedly ask for the same thing over and over and over again. Especially when many people have given you valid reasons why it should not be.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Agricola1 This is just going in circles and we need to agree to disagree because it just looks embaressing having this thread on the forums.
I 100% agree, this is embarrassing. I'm going to bow out from this thread.
If people need to continuously whine let them. But they can do it by themselves with each other.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
/facepalm
I am only talking about balance 1v1. That is all I have ever been talking about in this thread...
THAT is a simple concept. Not sure why people are having a hard time with it.
You also included Asheron's Call in there, a game that I am a veteran of. You could play 1 year and not catch up to the magic resist and hp of a 126 that was macroed up there. Skill ment alot but so did character building, just like DF
That being said i would like that they would speed up stats gain by about 25%
Many of us understand what you're asking for, but we simply do not believe it is a good idea. As much as it shocks and awes you, many of us like the game the way it is. If you want to be so competitive 1 vs 1 you're going to have to put the time into your character. It's not difficult at all, especially if you're not expecting to woop ass in your first week. If you can't/don't want to, then kindly move along. Don't they have a couple games already for the kind of playstyle you want?
BTW facepalming 'till your forehead is red and throwing a hissy fit isn't going to get you far around here.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The graph's point is moot. All its saying is to make 50str and vit = 350 instead of ~300HP. Stats already level up on that curve, their affect is linear. But the point is, 300 hp = competetive level against anyone. Once you hit 300 hp, someone having 100 more hp than you isn't going to make a drastic difference on your ability to kill them. All 100hp ammounts to is 2-4 extra hits. Yea really game breaking.
As for the skills you "unlock" based on your stats, almost all of them are worthless and the ones that are worth anything don't affect dmg/defense enough to matter (omg 5extra dps game braking omg).
Jesus christ people, DON'T LOOK AT THE EXACT NUMBERS OF THE GRAPH, LOOK AT THE GOD DAMN CONCEPT IT IS TALKING ABOUT.
As it stands right now, THE BENEFITS YOU GAIN DURING STAT PROGRESSION ARE L I N E A R. Melipone, myself, and many others are arguing to make THE BENEFITS YOU GAIN DURING STAT PROGRESSION NON- L I N E A R.
So, I advocate that when you progress from strength level 31-32, YOU GAIN MORE BENEFIT TO YOUR CHARACTER than when you progress from strength level 71-72, as an example. My god, do you people really not understand these graphs?
*edit* In regards to the red, these graphs have NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME. Stats level up on a non-linear curve, but their benefits level up LINEARLY. The top graph in that link shows how STAT BENEFITS LEVEL UP LINEARLY. The bottom graph shows how STAT BENEFITS LEVEL UP NON-LINEARLY.
WE ARE SUPPORTING STAT BENEFITS LEVELING UP NON-LINEARLY, NOT STAT LEVELS THEMSELVES.
Read what I said instead of raging. You're entire argument is made moot when there isn't a huge advantage for someone who has 70str vs someone who has 50 str. Since stats already level non-linerarly, there isn't a point to make their affect non-linear. It takes about 1-2 months to get to 300 HP, it takes more than a year to reach cap, hell it can take longer than a year to reach 400 HP even for the all-night macroers. This gap that you keep harping about doesn't exist after the first few weeks of playing.
Edit:
Listen all you UO fanboys out there because I'm about to drop some hard truth on you. UO wasn't a balanced PvP game, nor was it a game were skill was the determining factor. It was a game of builds and counter builds just like every cap game on the market. That doesn't mean UO wasn't a good game, or it wasn't a good PvP game. It does mean that making DFO suddenly have a cap won't instantly balance the playing field, it will simply shift it more to the power gamers who can find the best builds and the best build's counter because they'll find them quicker. I like the way the game is now because right now the out come of a fight is largely (90% I'd say) determined by a player's skill not their character. Thats best for a PvP game don't you think.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
Have to conclude...I agree. They worked for it. Some did it by macroing, etc. In fact the magnitutde of cheating in this game may never be known, but some people like me...really did do all thier shit by the numbers IN game. So I have to agree with you.
Stats do matter as they make your life easyer.
They increase your HP / stamina / mana pool ( transfer spells 4tw)
Thy give you access to skills which increase your edge (stamina / health regeneration and others)
They increase your dmg with your fight style.
And if you count all together stats give a damn big edge over other players who arent playing since launch or hardcore.
Denying it is like saying DF is WoW.
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-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Hehe, so stat, skill and gear only counts for 10 %? Did you stop playing when nakedfighting was popular?
I`m not saying you are wrong, but let me ask you this.
If stats hardly doesn`t matter, why not increase the gain?
We know a huge grind, and a large difference between a vet and a new player doesnt work in a full-loot mmo. Darkfall have proven this fact. Darkfall is a year old, and the game is better than ever. Despite the good game, we only have a few thousand players left on EU1. This is confirmed by this site logging the active players in EU1 clans. df.urme.com/index.php
The large battles Darkfall was famous for are rare, and they happens once a week according to some of the grind defenders. I love those battles and think once a week is a joke for a pvp mmo. Everytime a battle with more than 20+ players occures, a post will be made on this site forums.darkfallonline.com/forumdisplay.php . You can look at the dates and judge for yourself. You can however spend a few hours hunting harvesters or attack empty hamlets/citys. I personally don`t call that pvp.
The grind defenders claim Darkfall is a niche game and are suppose to be an empty world. They are wrong. One Darkfall server is made to hold 30-40 k players. The game is based on politics, large batlles, sieges and got huge ships. if we don`t have a large population, the concept of darkfall will fail at it`s core. Now the EU1 server is so empty they give away citys if you got an active clan.
The funny part is that some grind defenders claim we can`t take the heat in a full-loot mmo. NO ONE have ever made a complain of losing gear in PVP...EVER. We want to risk our gear in a risk - reward mmo. Heck I don`t die enough in this PVE game Darkfall have become. Listen Evasia, I WANT TO DIE MORE OFTEN. The last time I died in DF was 30 jan, and I play 5 hour a day. My bank is filled with gear, and I don`t bother picking up weapons under R50 from mobs.
I don`t know what plans AV have to save Darkfall, but they need to do something to get alot of new players. My guess is faster gain and more specialization. It doen`t matter how many quest, PVE or fluff they implement in Darkfall. Darkfall is a pvp mmo at its core, and only pvpers can make it work.
Give us more players -) more pvp -) more fun
Reduce the fucking grind
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
Well said!
Read -> Think -> Post! Thank you!
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See the best doors on EvE-on!
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for. Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players.
If they quit, then they would quit anyway. Sooner or later. These people wouldnt stick to game for long.
Older players quit
Why because they got more enemys or because they got no more free wins?
and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit
Yeah because they actually can start doing pvp. Yeah you are right dude. Lets increase grind so we get even more people. Sure dude.
. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in.
Zerg alliance, which is know for being afraid of any bib scale open battle.
Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server.
And where do you got this wisdom from? There is no prove that approves your theory or neither denys it. Just QQ about QQers doesnt say you are right.
They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here?
Because Shadowbane was level bassed and not skilled based. You are now comparing WoW / UO hybrid with DF. You could aswell spit on DF by doing such comparings.
Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
Because its fucking old. Graphic is even worse then DF. Wonder that i didnt get eye cancer from it.
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make?
Having fight instead just donating to vets?
You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask.
Aks racial chat and you will get an answer pretty fast. If its high stats vet you will find it out np.
You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
As you get longer fights with higher stats and didnt get doomrolled in few seconds.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
And how the fuck did they earnt these privelige? By playing longer is "earning"? Imao dude you need to go outside and get a job then you will know what earning is.
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
Please stop nerdrage. You lose just your credibility.
For me i dont see any problems in increasing early stats gain (till 50 stats). I see it anyway coming as AV isnt that plain dumb to ingore the fact that grinding is scaring away people. And after all AV is company which is interessted in gaining money. And whats the easyest way to gain money? New subscribers who buy boxes and stay to play the game.
DF is fun. But the problem is most of people dont stay long enough to see it, as grind fucks them off. I dont mind grinding as i played before such games.
These are just my 50 cents. GoGo giev me more nerd rage
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Read -> Think -> Post! Thank you!
Right back to you !
with the remark that Darkfall is primary a MMORPG and not a PvP shooter...thanks !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Read -> Think -> Post! Thank you!
Right back to you !
with the remark that Darkfall is primary a MMORPG and not a PvP shooter...thanks !
Darkfall is primary a MMORPG which is all around PVP and nothing else!
Thats the main point. In pvp all people want to match each other and in Darkfall you can do it only after you grinded your ass off.
Typical last argument of fanboys if they dont know further.
I like Darkfall but i dont try to show it as it were a brilliant. Darkfall is rough diamond. You need to polish (grind) it till you get the shiny brilliant (PvP). And thats why i try to show the people how the game really is. They dont get disappointed and dont rage about game, as it already got bad mouth reputation.
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What's kinda sad in watching these posts on the DF boards here is the sheer amount of wasted interest in this game. There's obviously a huge lull right now with other games stagnating and tons of players are seeking a new home. Every day I see post after post of wary people wondering if DF might be for them, and that doesn't even begin to include the many more who read and are silent rather than post their every thought. The point is, this interest is going to waste for the exact reasons the game's biggest fans are its biggest fans, and the irony is that they're doing more damage to their "precious" than anyone wanting change for the game could possibly do.
The only thing hardcore about Darkfall right now is its grind, and I'm finally killing my playtime in the game now (I bought the game+6mo so it's active either way) to wait for changes. Otherwise, mine is a subscription that won't be renewed. It's annoying because the gameplay and mechanics in this game are outstanding, and after playing the FPS style, I'd have a hell of a time going back to your typical tab-target and 1-2-3 spam style of play. However, it's just too much that to want to feel competitive and effective you'll need to play the game (or keep it running w/macros or AFK swimming) 24/7 just to try and close a gap that's far larger than anyone who's a fan of the game wants to admit. "Oh, you only need 300 HP to be competitive" is a ridiculous and tired argument coming from players who know that 300 HP only makes a player go from a squish under their shoe to a speed bump (yeah, 25-40% less HP than your opponent is 'no big deal' at all) when the lower health player takes more damage and deals less, with less utility and/or options for fighting style.
At any rate, I don't know and kinda doubt a post like this one has any bearing on what Aventurine will or won't do, but it is a shame that there's so many in DFO who don't want the status quo touched for fear of losing their precious advantages (or possibilities of them). Besides, changes to stat/skill gain won't introduce an "NGE" at all, it'll merely upset the balance of things. Regardless, for there to be any actual impact like that of NGE's of the past, there needs to be a substantial player base to begin with, and right now there isn't. TBH I think the biggest fear probably stems from the idea of "what will we do?" if the grind were reduced. I mean, I'm sure it's the primary motivating factor in the sandbox right now that you need to log in and get this or that skillup or work on this, farm that, etc., and I think the idea of lowering the grind leaves a lot of players scared of the concept of such changes. Just my opinion anyway...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for.
There you go, over-exaggerating again. No one in this thread has said anything about wanting shit in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for (or exploited mobs and AFK macroed for a year for, whatever). I love how you continuously throw blanket statements towards people who merely want to make the game better and population higher.
Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
Yes, because when Aventurine increased skill gain everyone quit and there wasn't a huge influx of new players *eyeroll*
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
*sigh* This is getting so old it's not even funny anymore. No one is saying they want anything handed to them on a plate, they just don't want to have to grind their souls away to get anywhere. Hell, even YOU yourself say that you work at home and "semi-AFK" harvest all day. GUESS WHAT, MOST PEOPLE CAN'T DO THAT, and you shouldn't HAVE to do that to gain stat levels anyway. You should be able to PLAY the game for a couple of hours a day and get the same gains you have gotten as you AFK harvest all day long. If you think differently, then my god this genre is going to hell.
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
Darkfall WAS meant to be a niche game, a niche game for a FFA, full loot PvP style game, not "who can grind the most and spend more time in game AFK harvesting". I think you're referring to the wrong "niche" of players that Aventurine wanted.
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
It's not about "getting owned and crying" like you continuously try to make it out to seem. I have never once QQed to anyone in game, EVER. I have never ONCE raged to anyone who killed me, even if I was furious after losing 30K worth of shit. That is part of the game, and if I couldn't handle it, I wouldn't be playing.
What I CAN'T stand, however, is that if I want to get a competitive character from a fresh start (which I don't, since my character is a VETERAN character), it takes countless hours of grinding away doing boring crap to accomplish that, and even then, a new player will NEVER catch up to a veteran, EVER.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
First off, A TON of older players got their stats and skill levels through AFK macroing, exploiting bugged high-end mobs, and utilizing a shit ton of broken game mechanics. How do I know this? Because I was there during launch, and you weren't. Yes, SOME veterans have honestly earned their stats, and I am not one to try to take away what they've earned. That is why I support melipone's suggestion, which you continue to ignore, BECAUSE it doesn't take away what veterans have earned, keeps the grind the exact same, AND gets newer players into "competitive" status quicker, NOT "easy-mode" or "handed on a plate" like you try to claim. The new player STILL has to put a lot of work into getting competitive, but with that suggestion they can spend more time PvPing and less time grinding and doing boring crap.
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
There you go again, correlating reducing the grind to making it Counter Strike or Halo 3, when NO ONE is asking for anything in regards to that. And yes, I will be checking Mortal Online out, primarily BECAUSE it doesn't focus on the grind like Darkfall does.
Responses in yellow. It's obvious you refuse to listen to any of the arguments Agrikola and instead run around yelling, "Shut up QQers! You want easy-mode WoW carebear crap. If you want to reduce the grind, go play Halo 3!"
Yes, because reducing the INSANE grind that is in Darkfall, a grind that is bigger and more painstaking then most MMOs on the market today, would certainly make it like Halo 3.....
What i don't underrtstand is how outa mices it can become elephants.
Think about it , even 50 level ahead in stats means +5 more of a damage, a dodged blow can be everything from +10 to +50 avoided damage respectively a succesfully aimed and landed blow can be an additionally +10 to +50 hit..discussion needs perspective and proportions..,
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
If stats hardly matter why not increase the gain? I could flip the coin and say why increase the gain if they don't matter? I've seen no evidence to do so, all I see is a second NGE. A bunch of people crying for something in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for.
There you go, over-exaggerating again. No one in this thread has said anything about wanting shit in the first two weeks that another player worked a year for (or exploited mobs and AFK macroed for a year for, whatever). I love how you continuously throw blanket statements towards people who merely want to make the game better and population higher.
Change it and I'm certain there'll be a massive drop in players. Older players quit and the stat whiners realize that high stats haven't made the game better for them and quit. Not once have I seen evidence to the contrary just whining from a few vocal QQers.
Yes, because when Aventurine increased skill gain everyone quit and there wasn't a huge influx of new players *eyeroll*
The large battles that Darkfall is famous for happen very often, there are many large battles every week (most days) in the alliance I'm in. Sorry you spend all your time PVEing and don't engage in them but it has nothing to do with stats. Like all stat whiners you want the mountain to come to Mohammed and expect the PvP to be dished up for your entertainment along with high stats on a plate. Pony up get out there and take part, either put up or shut up!
*sigh* This is getting so old it's not even funny anymore. No one is saying they want anything handed to them on a plate, they just don't want to have to grind their souls away to get anywhere. Hell, even YOU yourself say that you work at home and "semi-AFK" harvest all day. GUESS WHAT, MOST PEOPLE CAN'T DO THAT, and you shouldn't HAVE to do that to gain stat levels anyway. You should be able to PLAY the game for a couple of hours a day and get the same gains you have gotten as you AFK harvest all day long. If you think differently, then my god this genre is going to hell.
Darkfall was not meant to be niche? WTF are you smoking man? It's a full loot PvP game, how many of those aren't niche? You need to take a reality check if you think losing the grind is going to fill up the server. They did this in Shadowbane and it didn't work did it? So why would it make a difference here? Look at WW2online it has no grind at all but is dead as a door nail. How do you work that one out? Actually why aren't you playing that instead?
Darkfall WAS meant to be a niche game, a niche game for a FFA, full loot PvP style game, not "who can grind the most and spend more time in game AFK harvesting". I think you're referring to the wrong "niche" of players that Aventurine wanted.
No one complained about losing gear in DFO? You want to die more? Great, what difference would dieing with high stats make? You try to deny the fact that this whole stat whiner vendetta is aimed at better players winning in PvP and killing the whiners. Probably not even vets since you can't tell how high a chars stats are in DFO unless you ask. You get owned, you QQ then ask AV to throw you a crutch to help you win ... FACT! Your whole argument is a massive contradiction full of loop holes, you want to die more yet you want higher stats.
It's not about "getting owned and crying" like you continuously try to make it out to seem. I have never once QQed to anyone in game, EVER. I have never ONCE raged to anyone who killed me, even if I was furious after losing 30K worth of shit. That is part of the game, and if I couldn't handle it, I wouldn't be playing.
What I CAN'T stand, however, is that if I want to get a competitive character from a fresh start (which I don't, since my character is a VETERAN character), it takes countless hours of grinding away doing boring crap to accomplish that, and even then, a new player will NEVER catch up to a veteran, EVER.
Darkfall is a PvP MMORPG I agree but giving away something to whiners that older players have earnt the privelige to have will not increase the population in my opinion. Also it seems Aventurine agree with me so I guess you're just going to have to put that in your pipe and smoke it!
First off, A TON of older players got their stats and skill levels through AFK macroing, exploiting bugged high-end mobs, and utilizing a shit ton of broken game mechanics. How do I know this? Because I was there during launch, and you weren't. Yes, SOME veterans have honestly earned their stats, and I am not one to try to take away what they've earned. That is why I support melipone's suggestion, which you continue to ignore, BECAUSE it doesn't take away what veterans have earned, keeps the grind the exact same, AND gets newer players into "competitive" status quicker, NOT "easy-mode" or "handed on a plate" like you try to claim. The new player STILL has to put a lot of work into getting competitive, but with that suggestion they can spend more time PvPing and less time grinding and doing boring crap.
You want to reduce the grind? Planetside, WW2online, MO, Counter Strike, Battlefield, Halo 3 multiplayer to name but a few. Actually I say the more someone whines about it on the forums the slower AV should make their in game stat gains and send death squads of maxed out vets to hunt them down and grief them in game. Might solve your lack of PvP problem and the wish to die more!
There you go again, correlating reducing the grind to making it Counter Strike or Halo 3, when NO ONE is asking for anything in regards to that. And yes, I will be checking Mortal Online out, primarily BECAUSE it doesn't focus on the grind like Darkfall does.
Responses in yellow. It's obvious you refuse to listen to any of the arguments Agrikola and instead run around yelling, "Shut up QQers! You want easy-mode WoW carebear crap. If you want to reduce the grind, go play Halo 3!"
Yes, because reducing the INSANE grind that is in Darkfall, a grind that is bigger and more painstaking then most MMOs on the market today, would certainly make it like Halo 3.....
At least someone who cares more about game and not about fucking edge over other players
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Why is not ok to have one unique game like Darkfall? Why does it have to change to accomodate some of you?
I frequent four different internet forums (all unrelated in subject), and this forum contains the highest number of whiney little brats by a very noticeable margin. They're everywhere on the internet of course, but this is a cesspool. What makes some of you so demanding, self-entitled, and prone to hissy fits?
After reading what Agricola had to say, I'm surprised that some of you havn't just agreed to disagree. Instead some of you are making indirect comments about what others have said, examples being "stupid" and "retarded". Some of you seem to also have an appreciation of circles, as that's the only place you're all going.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm one of the many Darkfall players that currently do not have the "edge". I still completely disagree with what you're asking for.
There are soooooooooooo many games out there that have already been manipulated into what you're looking for. Choose one.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Wonder why noone has brought in racial differences as in "nooooes i am elf and start at 15 vit and that dwarf starts at 25..thats 10 vit MORE...that makes 20 HP difference !!!!!!!!" ... and thats 2 - 3 blows as fresh newbs..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Thanks, I disagree with the people that want stat gain quickened up that's all. The main trouble is we've got one side saying the idea sux and it's the next NGE and the other saying it's the thing that will save DFO (wasn't aware it needed saving myself!).
What I keep asking for is some kind of evidence as to why they think this would improve the game and bring in more players? I have played other games where the grind was harsh then taken away or it was made less harsh in some manner and it killed the population each time. What always happens is the older playerbase that makes up 90% of the longterm most loyal subscribers gets decimated and many quit then go on to bad mouth the company/game.
I want to know why they think it would be different this time? I just want to see some figures or some kind of research, not some graph that my 12 year old son could have drawn on MS paint with a curve that makes him feel happy!
This is just going in circles and we need to agree to disagree because it just looks embaressing having this thread on the forums.
I've played for just over 2.5 months and un buffed have over 325HP. With my title quest buff (+4) my strenght is over 70, vit in the mid 60s and my wisdom is over 75. Did I enjoy the grind? Yes actualy I did! Now there's a bunch of people making multiple threads all over the net screaming to take away my enjoyment to save DFO. I don't want it to happen, it happened to me in SWG and I don't want to see it happen here. Show me some evidence or some kind of data to back up why you think it'll help DFO not a "Well it'll make new players happy so subs will go up".
Well if it took those new players a month to get 400hp I reckon the same number would still quit because most don't like getting rolled in a full loot pvp game anyway. Telling them to stick it out a month is not going to make a difference, I see them everyday usually quiting after 3 days because it's boring and they get frustrated dieing. Making them wait a shorter time for stats won't help as you need more time to build twitch skills!
But what I said is falling on deaf ears, atleast Aventurine agrees with me anyway so I guess there'll be no NGE this year!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Honestly, you say to go choose one of the "many games out there that have already been manipulated into what you're looking for", but in this style of play there's only two: Darkfall and Mortal Online. MO is a steaming pile of crap, and DFO is an outstanding game. I'd be more than inclined to accept its mechanics and let the topic wither away and die if it weren't the single most discussed issue across the DFO boards and here, which I assume means I'm not alone in my feelings on the subject. I mean really, go look at the official forums, and look here. What are the most discussed issues? The grind (or gap between new and vet players, as it were), macro/exploiters, and in a distant third, hackers. Beyond that, the issues discussed about DFO are trivial at best. This issue is the one thing that people are constantly concerned about and the thing that drives the largest number of players to not play. Hell, even look at people who want to try Darkfall. What is their number one concern with doing so? Time investment to enjoy the game.
Bottom line is, just because it's not an opinion you share doesn't make it a whine. In all honesty, your post comes off as the whine to my eyes, seeing as you can't seem to stand the idea of people discussing topics in...a discussion board. It's like you're covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming "STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!1" because people are sharing opinions about your game. Pfft.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Honestly, you say to go choose one of the "many games out there that have already been manipulated into what you're looking for", but in this style of play there's only two: Darkfall and Mortal Online. MO is a steaming pile of crap, and DFO is an outstanding game. I'd be more than inclined to accept its mechanics and let the topic wither away and die if it weren't the single most discussed issue across the DFO boards and here, which I assume means I'm not alone in my feelings on the subject. I mean really, go look at the official forums, and look here. What are the most discussed issues? The grind (or gap between new and vet players, as it were), macro/exploiters, and in a distant third, hackers. Beyond that, the issues discussed about DFO are trivial at best. This issue is the one thing that people are constantly concerned about and the thing that drives the largest number of players to not play. Hell, even look at people who want to try Darkfall. What is their number one concern with doing so? Time investment to enjoy the game.
Bottom line is, just because it's not an opinion you share doesn't make it a whine. In all honesty, your post comes off as the whine to my eyes, seeing as you can't seem to stand the idea of people discussing topics in...a discussion board. It's like you're covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming "STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!1" because people are sharing opinions about your game. Pfft.
I have no issue discussing other people's opinions about the game, even if I do not share their views. I have done this for a while on these forums, with many different users. You and a couple of other users are continually going in the same circle, and your stance is obviously not going to change. This is the point where it becomes whining. It's childish to repeatedly ask for the same thing over and over and over again. Especially when many people have given you valid reasons why it should not be.
Here.....from thefreedictionary.com
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whine (hwn, wn)
v. whined, whin·ing, whines
v.intr.
1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining.
v.tr.
To utter with a whine.
n.
1. The act of whining.
2. A whining sound.
3. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone.
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Stop your bloody whining!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I 100% agree, this is embarrassing. I'm going to bow out from this thread.
If people need to continuously whine let them. But they can do it by themselves with each other.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb