I was never a thief in UO. Personally, I hated them. And I killed the known thieves before I would give them a chance to steal something from me. Which is how I became Red Murder in that game.
My point is the thieves make the element of danger more exciting in the game because its another thing or person you have to deal with. Maybe I want to take other players crap, but I don't wanna become red doing so..... ergo thief. I don't wanna be a red murder and not be able to go back to town or ruin my faction or whatever the case may be. Thieves make it so that they can be just as annoying as a PK however you don't deal with the repercussions as a Red.
Not being able to go back to regular towns, ruinning faction, and the big important one suffering a 10% stat loss if you ressed as a red. Or waitting until you turn back to blue before you res.
So you have Shadowbane with an engine that sucked bad, while DF's is very good (widely accepted).
Let me finish that sentence...
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
Had to comment on this as well. DF has perhaps the best net-code I have ever seen in an MMO. I mean... its seriously impressive compared to a lot of other games... and its coming from an Indy developer, which is even more impressive. When you take into consideration the scale of the game and the seamless world they created, it only becomes that much more impressive. The only optimization issue I ever had with DF was how it handles shadows... and I just turn them off anyway.
The combat is incredibly smooth, and the netcode is absolutely fantastic. Compared to huge budget titles like Aion its a damned masterpiece.
By the way, a UI isn't part of the game engine. It's just a UI, and it reportedly getting overhauled.
That is the truth. I was in a fight where there was 200+ players on my screen. I shot my bow, and hit what I aimed at. There is no FPS on the market that can handle 200+ players in one area or one map.
This thread is way off topic, however. UO and SB were great pvp games because you could get to the endgame FAST. You cant get to the endgame FAST in ANY MMO on the market currently, even DF.
Lets start having FUN instead of having GRIND for crying out loud.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
90% of the game ( if not more ) is on the users PC and that means very little info needs to be passed back and forth and in turn that means less lag. But it also means easy peasy lemon squeezy when it comes to cheating.
Their " net code " is based off of 1999 tech and it is far from good. Examples of such games would be Magestorm , Aliens Online..ect. Pretty much any FPS on the market in the 90s.
On topic ( something DF fanboys cant do ).. I will agree that UOs PvP was good even though I didnt do much of it ( was into more of the crafting aspect and overall character building than anything ).
/lol at the " awesome ' net code.. 90% of the game ( if not more ) is on the users PC and that means very little info needs to be passed back and forth and in turn that means less lag. But it also means easy peasy lemon squeezy when it comes to cheating. Their " net code " is based off of 1999 tech and it is far from good. Examples of such games would be Magestorm , Aliens Online..ect. Pretty much any FPS on the market in the 90s.
You don't know what your talking about, at all. Your running with what you -think- you comprehend and making base assumptions. If you think that small instanced match based games with a chat-hall matchmaking interface utilizes the same code and optimizations that a massive seamless world with thousands of players....heh. There is a reason MMOs gravitate towards autotargetting and instant-hit functions. I'm just going to leave it at that because your really not worth arguing with.
Your posting history shows you like playing the DF fanboy and hardcore card. So just save yourself the trouble, its a tripe argument.
I've never been impressed with how thieves are handled in any games outside of MUDS personally, but I do agree that DF is missing some skillcap/crafting/economical elements that bring it up short of UO or Eve. It's still a young game though, so hopefully they start fleshing out the sandbox and make the specialization's more important in a way that more closely resembles skill-caps.
Okay, points for the most sensible post by a Darkfall player I've ever seen. More points for using MUDs as a reference.
I have to say though, even with the expansion for Darkfall, it seems to be that the actual sandbox functionality of the game seems to come last behind making PvE more engaging and making more PvP options.
Hell, according to the other guy, the damn UI is being overhauled before the sandbox functionality. Despite how desperately it needs fixed, the DFO players themselves seem to have no problem with it.
So your clan sucked? Every good Darkfall vid I see shows players using every aspect of combat... mounts, melee, archery, and magic all in conjuction with eachother. The ones who run up to their targets and spam attack suck ass.
That may be, but they were a part of a larger parent clan (can't remember the name...started with an I and owned their own city) who didn't exactly reprimand those teachings.
Well get past the inconsequential part of comerb's post (the first question) and read the rest of it. Darkfall's combat isn't the deepest, but it does have a certain depth. Certainly far more than "spamming attack".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle. The greater the role of non-skill factors, the less your decisions in a given fight matter (because the fight becomes more and more decided by those other factors.)
The less your decisions matter, the more battles become one-sided slaughters. Games are fun due to Interactivity and/or Dramatic Conflict, but with one-sided slaughters you have much less Interaction (your decisions are incapable of affecting the outcome; it's predetermined,) and no Dramatic Conflict (it's a one-sided slaughter.)
So one-sided slaughters aren't very fun.
WOW and GW manage to eliminate non-skill factors like Population while limiting other non-skill factors. This results in more consistently enjoyable PVP.
Instanced PVP also allows you to spend most of your time PVPing. There were nights in Darkfall where I spent a long time riding around searching for PVP and finding nothing. It puzzles me that games get called "PVP" MMORPGs when so much of the time spent playing isn't PVP.
Are WOW and GW perfect? Not at all. I usually get my PVP from genres which do it better. But in terms of MMORPG PVP, they're the ones which most consistently provide enjoyable fights.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
IRT, I'd lean more towards WOW or GW. Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle. The greater the role of non-skill factors, the less your decisions in a given fight matter (because the fight becomes more and more decided by those other factors.) The less your decisions matter, the more battles become one-sided slaughters. Games are fun due to Interactivity and/or Dramatic Conflict, but with one-sided slaughters you have much less Interaction (your decisions are incapable of affecting the outcome; it's predetermined,) and no Dramatic Conflict (it's a one-sided slaughter.) So one-sided slaughters aren't very fun. WOW and GW manage to eliminate non-skill factors like Population while limiting other non-skill factors. This results in more consistently enjoyable PVP. Instanced PVP also allows you to spend most of your time PVPing. There were nights in Darkfall where I spent a long time riding around searching for PVP and finding nothing. It puzzles me that games get called "PVP" MMORPGs when so much of the time spent playing isn't PVP. Are WOW and GW perfect? Not at all. I usually get my PVP from genres which do it better. But in terms of MMORPG PVP, they're the ones which most consistently provide enjoyable fights.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
IRT, I'd lean more towards WOW or GW. Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle. The greater the role of non-skill factors, the less your decisions in a given fight matter (because the fight becomes more and more decided by those other factors.) The less your decisions matter, the more battles become one-sided slaughters. Games are fun due to Interactivity and/or Dramatic Conflict, but with one-sided slaughters you have much less Interaction (your decisions are incapable of affecting the outcome; it's predetermined,) and no Dramatic Conflict (it's a one-sided slaughter.) So one-sided slaughters aren't very fun. WOW and GW manage to eliminate non-skill factors like Population while limiting other non-skill factors. This results in more consistently enjoyable PVP. Instanced PVP also allows you to spend most of your time PVPing. There were nights in Darkfall where I spent a long time riding around searching for PVP and finding nothing. It puzzles me that games get called "PVP" MMORPGs when so much of the time spent playing isn't PVP. Are WOW and GW perfect? Not at all. I usually get my PVP from genres which do it better. But in terms of MMORPG PVP, they're the ones which most consistently provide enjoyable fights.
Actually your wrong. The skill of the individual player did matter in Shadowbane. The only way we won outnumbered was because of our skill as a team. My guild had several battles where they had nearly double the numbers we had yet we won the battle (siege).
In UO there was no such thing as zerging as everyone was on equal footing quickly (progression and endgate was days, not years).
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Solid game mechanics trump "ideas" every time. Thats why WOW or GW are more enjoyable. The battle mechanics are far superior to anything in UO or Shadowbane by a long shot. Its like saying MUDDS have the best PvP even though you're reading text. And DOOM is a great FPS by todays standards=)
Solid game mechanics trump "ideas" every time. Thats why WOW or GW are more enjoyable. The battle mechanics are far superior to anything in UO or Shadowbane by a long shot. Its like saying MUDDS have the best PvP even though you're reading text. And DOOM is a great FPS by todays standards=)
'tis truth my friend.
I still enjoy MUDs from time to time.
Comparing a MUD to an MMORPG is like comparing a book to a movie. The MUD/book has all the fine detail while the MMORPG/movie is all about the sensory experience.
Maybe instead of whining and praising this games, you should just go and play them? You can play UO and soon Shadowbane. They are most awesome games ever!
Seriosuly, stop living a past. Just because some new game is not EXACTLY your old game doesn't mean its bad.
Playing Darkfall right now and enjoying it. It's not FPS, it's MMOROPG - that's why skills and gear matters. There is grind but after playing in EVE I don't have "must max to enjoy game" attitude like OP. I'm having fun and laugh each time some 'vets' instead of having fun are making such threads. No matter how many times you will whine and bash games other people are playing, they will be still enjoying them.
Now go crawl to your basement and wait for "second coming of Jesus" mmorpg.
Actually your wrong. The skill of the individual player did matter in Shadowbane. The only way we won outnumbered was because of our skill as a team. My guild had several battles where they had nearly double the numbers we had yet we won the battle (siege). In UO there was no such thing as zerging as everyone was on equal footing quickly (progression and endgate was days, not years).
How can you call it wrong? Read it again:
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
Population (aka zerging), weight 5 (25%)
Skill, weight 5 (25%)
Gear, weight 5 (25%)
Progression, weight 5 (25%)
So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed:
Population, weight 0 (0%)
Skill, weight 5 (33%)
Gear, weight 5 (33%)
Progression, weight 5 (33%)
Notice how skill is now more important? Skill was not unimportant in the first example, but it's more important in the second. That's what I'm getting at.
Any game where you can gang up on players with uneven teams makes population a factor. I seriously doubt UO was this magical PVP eden where every battle was a fair 1v1, 2v2, etc fight. Maybe unfair fights were rare (the weight was low) but they still probably happened to a degree.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by -Zeno- Actually your wrong. The skill of the individual player did matter in Shadowbane. The only way we won outnumbered was because of our skill as a team. My guild had several battles where they had nearly double the numbers we had yet we won the battle (siege). In UO there was no such thing as zerging as everyone was on equal footing quickly (progression and endgate was days, not years).
How can you call it wrong? Read it again: "Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle." Note the emphasis. "Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
Population (aka zerging), weight 5 (25%)
Skill, weight 5 (25%)
Gear, weight 5 (25%)
Progression, weight 5 (25%)So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed: Population, weight 0 (0%) Skill, weight 5 (33%) Gear, weight 5 (33%) Progression, weight 5 (33%)
Notice how skill is now more important? Skill was not unimportant in the first example, but it's more important in the second. That's what I'm getting at. Any game where you can gang up on players with uneven teams makes population a factor. I seriously doubt UO was this magical PVP eden where every battle was a fair 1v1, 2v2, etc fight. Maybe unfair fights were rare (the weight was low) but they still probably happened to a degree.
You seriously should try some real PvP game. Have you played anything else besides WoW?
So you have Shadowbane with an engine that sucked bad, while DF's is very good (widely accepted).
Let me finish that sentence...
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
No it is widely accepted by people who actually play or played the game, while it is widely not accepted by people like you who didn't play the game and know nothing about it, but still like to talk non sense.
DF has the best engine of every game I played, both in stability and performance, I rarely hear players complaining about lag (apart when there are sieges) or the client crashing.
You won't believe it, but in 6 months of DF I never ever crashed once.
The only 2 times I got disconnected was because my ISP..............that's how reliable the engine and the netcode is.
AV did an amazing job with the engine, to be honest coming from a tiny indie developer in Greece, I would never ever expected they could build such a solid code, particularly because more "professional" and established developers seems like they are not able to build a cn engine crash proof.
Only WoW has the same level of stability, but even there I used to be kicked out every now and then.
Actually your wrong. The skill of the individual player did matter in Shadowbane. The only way we won outnumbered was because of our skill as a team. My guild had several battles where they had nearly double the numbers we had yet we won the battle (siege). In UO there was no such thing as zerging as everyone was on equal footing quickly (progression and endgate was days, not years).
How can you call it wrong? Read it again:
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
Population (aka zerging), weight 5 (25%)
Skill, weight 5 (25%)
Gear, weight 5 (25%)
Progression, weight 5 (25%)
So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed:
Population, weight 0 (0%)
Skill, weight 5 (0%)
Gear, weight 5 (100%)
Progression, weight 5 (0%)
I fixed it for you. Everything in Wow is gear based and yes that includes PvP as well.
So you have Shadowbane with an engine that sucked bad, while DF's is very good (widely accepted).
Let me finish that sentence...
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
No it is widely accepted by people who actually play or played the game, while it is widely not accepted by people like you who didn't play the game and know nothing about it, but still like to talk non sense.
DF has the best engine of every game I played, both in stability and performance, I rarely hear players complaining about lag (apart when there are sieges) or the client crashing.
You won't believe it, but in 6 months of DF I never ever crashed once.
The only 2 times I got disconnected was because my ISP..............that's how reliable the engine and the netcode is.
AV did an amazing job with the engine, to be honest coming from a tiny indie developer in Greece, I would never ever expected they could build such a solid code, particularly because more "professional" and established developers seems like they are not able to build a cn engine crash proof.
Only WoW has the same level of stability, but even there I used to be kicked out every now and then.
Woah, woah woah, I love how people assume this every time. I played Darkfall. I hated it. It was a breath of fresh air for about a week and then straight back to the tedium with a community that doesn't know how to roleplay anything but gankers.
I understand it's a PvP game, but the point isn't to gank everyone. The point is to live a life in a world in the midsts of war. There aren't people going solo ganking untrained soldiers in real wartime.
Also, as far as the client goes, I got disconnected several times and not to mention the horrible special effects work where if you have shadows on in that game, it even has a nVidia 9800 down on its knees, all with not-nearly-impressive-enough-to-cause-that graphics.
Actually your wrong. The skill of the individual player did matter in Shadowbane. The only way we won outnumbered was because of our skill as a team. My guild had several battles where they had nearly double the numbers we had yet we won the battle (siege). In UO there was no such thing as zerging as everyone was on equal footing quickly (progression and endgate was days, not years).
How can you call it wrong? Read it again:
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
Population (aka zerging), weight 5 (25%)
Skill, weight 5 (25%)
Gear, weight 5 (25%)
Progression, weight 5 (25%)
So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed:
Population, weight 0 (0%)
Skill, weight 5 (0%)
Gear, weight 5 (100%)
Progression, weight 5 (0%)
I fixed it for you. Everything in Wow is gear based and yes that includes PvP as well.
Have to agree with the fix, and the SB part needs fixed a bit. He's going based too much off of fractions and not actual statistics. Nowhere near accurate. All untrained opinion.
Originally posted by johnmatthais Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by johnmatthais Originally posted by bluebawles
So you have Shadowbane with an engine that sucked bad, while DF's is very good (widely accepted).
Let me finish that sentence... Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud. Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
No it is widely accepted by people who actually play or played the game, while it is widely not accepted by people like you who didn't play the game and know nothing about it, but still like to talk non sense.
DF has the best engine of every game I played, both in stability and performance, I rarely hear players complaining about lag (apart when there are sieges) or the client crashing. You won't believe it, but in 6 months of DF I never ever crashed once. The only 2 times I got disconnected was because my ISP..............that's how reliable the engine and the netcode is. AV did an amazing job with the engine, to be honest coming from a tiny indie developer in Greece, I would never ever expected they could build such a solid code, particularly because more "professional" and established developers seems like they are not able to build a cn engine crash proof. Only WoW has the same level of stability, but even there I used to be kicked out every now and then.
Woah, woah woah, I love how people assume this every time. I played Darkfall. I hated it. It was a breath of fresh air for about a week and then straight back to the tedium with a community that doesn't know how to roleplay anything but gankers. I understand it's a PvP game, but the point isn't to gank everyone. The point is to live a life in a world in the midsts of war. There aren't people going solo ganking untrained soldiers in real wartime. Also, as far as the client goes, I got disconnected several times and not to mention the horrible special effects work where if you have shadows on in that game, it even has a nVidia 9800 down on its knees, all with not-nearly-impressive-enough-to-cause-that graphics.
Wait, you quit Darkfall because there were no roleplayers? Now I understand all your hate posts about Darkfall in every thread about it. Don't expect a lot of treehuggers in PvP based game. Besides there are roleplaying clans and there were roleplaying clans since launch.
WoWs carrot on a stick is very much gear but there is a lot more to combat than that.
Gear also plays a part in games like DF ( as are the " best " builds ).. If it didnt then we wouldnt see people running around with the same equipment / abilities.. Attack of the Clones! Gear means something and nothing. Somehing cause it gives you a possible edge in combat and nothing because if you lose it you can replace it 2 seconds later with the same stuff.
I forgot to add in my previous post... /lol at " in DF you create your own patches ".. I swear these guys have never played a sandbox game before DF.
Comments
I was never a thief in UO. Personally, I hated them. And I killed the known thieves before I would give them a chance to steal something from me. Which is how I became Red Murder in that game.
My point is the thieves make the element of danger more exciting in the game because its another thing or person you have to deal with. Maybe I want to take other players crap, but I don't wanna become red doing so..... ergo thief. I don't wanna be a red murder and not be able to go back to town or ruin my faction or whatever the case may be. Thieves make it so that they can be just as annoying as a PK however you don't deal with the repercussions as a Red.
Not being able to go back to regular towns, ruinning faction, and the big important one suffering a 10% stat loss if you ressed as a red. Or waitting until you turn back to blue before you res.
Let me finish that sentence...
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
Had to comment on this as well. DF has perhaps the best net-code I have ever seen in an MMO. I mean... its seriously impressive compared to a lot of other games... and its coming from an Indy developer, which is even more impressive. When you take into consideration the scale of the game and the seamless world they created, it only becomes that much more impressive. The only optimization issue I ever had with DF was how it handles shadows... and I just turn them off anyway.
The combat is incredibly smooth, and the netcode is absolutely fantastic. Compared to huge budget titles like Aion its a damned masterpiece.
By the way, a UI isn't part of the game engine. It's just a UI, and it reportedly getting overhauled.
That is the truth. I was in a fight where there was 200+ players on my screen. I shot my bow, and hit what I aimed at. There is no FPS on the market that can handle 200+ players in one area or one map.
This thread is way off topic, however. UO and SB were great pvp games because you could get to the endgame FAST. You cant get to the endgame FAST in ANY MMO on the market currently, even DF.
Lets start having FUN instead of having GRIND for crying out loud.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
I'm sorry but Darkfall is still light years behind UO in pvp and in overall game features.
Serioulsy lets add Fpv combat but gut 95% of UOs options and you think it's better?
Sorry pal but UO, SB, DAoC and EvE easily hand DF it's ass when it comes to pvp options.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
/lol at the " awesome ' net code..
90% of the game ( if not more ) is on the users PC and that means very little info needs to be passed back and forth and in turn that means less lag. But it also means easy peasy lemon squeezy when it comes to cheating.
Their " net code " is based off of 1999 tech and it is far from good. Examples of such games would be Magestorm , Aliens Online..ect. Pretty much any FPS on the market in the 90s.
On topic ( something DF fanboys cant do ).. I will agree that UOs PvP was good even though I didnt do much of it ( was into more of the crafting aspect and overall character building than anything ).
LOL @ this topic still being discussed.
I thought I took care of this thread in the first 2 pages, theres nothing else to discuss imo.
You don't know what your talking about, at all. Your running with what you -think- you comprehend and making base assumptions. If you think that small instanced match based games with a chat-hall matchmaking interface utilizes the same code and optimizations that a massive seamless world with thousands of players....heh. There is a reason MMOs gravitate towards autotargetting and instant-hit functions. I'm just going to leave it at that because your really not worth arguing with.
Your posting history shows you like playing the DF fanboy and hardcore card. So just save yourself the trouble, its a tripe argument.
Okay, points for the most sensible post by a Darkfall player I've ever seen. More points for using MUDs as a reference.
I have to say though, even with the expansion for Darkfall, it seems to be that the actual sandbox functionality of the game seems to come last behind making PvE more engaging and making more PvP options.
Hell, according to the other guy, the damn UI is being overhauled before the sandbox functionality. Despite how desperately it needs fixed, the DFO players themselves seem to have no problem with it.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
That may be, but they were a part of a larger parent clan (can't remember the name...started with an I and owned their own city) who didn't exactly reprimand those teachings.
Well get past the inconsequential part of comerb's post (the first question) and read the rest of it. Darkfall's combat isn't the deepest, but it does have a certain depth. Certainly far more than "spamming attack".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
IRT, I'd lean more towards WOW or GW.
Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle. The greater the role of non-skill factors, the less your decisions in a given fight matter (because the fight becomes more and more decided by those other factors.)
The less your decisions matter, the more battles become one-sided slaughters. Games are fun due to Interactivity and/or Dramatic Conflict, but with one-sided slaughters you have much less Interaction (your decisions are incapable of affecting the outcome; it's predetermined,) and no Dramatic Conflict (it's a one-sided slaughter.)
So one-sided slaughters aren't very fun.
WOW and GW manage to eliminate non-skill factors like Population while limiting other non-skill factors. This results in more consistently enjoyable PVP.
Instanced PVP also allows you to spend most of your time PVPing. There were nights in Darkfall where I spent a long time riding around searching for PVP and finding nothing. It puzzles me that games get called "PVP" MMORPGs when so much of the time spent playing isn't PVP.
Are WOW and GW perfect? Not at all. I usually get my PVP from genres which do it better. But in terms of MMORPG PVP, they're the ones which most consistently provide enjoyable fights.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Actually your wrong. The skill of the individual player did matter in Shadowbane. The only way we won outnumbered was because of our skill as a team. My guild had several battles where they had nearly double the numbers we had yet we won the battle (siege).
In UO there was no such thing as zerging as everyone was on equal footing quickly (progression and endgate was days, not years).
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
UO, no argument there from me on that one.
AC1 Darktide was worlds better than Shadowbane IMO though. I think it would even be too harsh for many of the newer so-called hardcore PvPers. O.o
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Solid game mechanics trump "ideas" every time. Thats why WOW or GW are more enjoyable. The battle mechanics are far superior to anything in UO or Shadowbane by a long shot. Its like saying MUDDS have the best PvP even though you're reading text. And DOOM is a great FPS by todays standards=)
'tis truth my friend.
I still enjoy MUDs from time to time.
Comparing a MUD to an MMORPG is like comparing a book to a movie. The MUD/book has all the fine detail while the MMORPG/movie is all about the sensory experience.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Is it "nub" to want combat to be decided by skill? Isn't that the opposite of nub?
Is it "nub" to use detailed rationale instead of insults in my post? Isn't that the opposite of nub?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Is it "nub" to want combat to be decided by skill? Isn't that the opposite of nub?
Is it "nub" to use detailed rationale instead of insults in my post? Isn't that the opposite of nub?
Well this is a PvP thread so you had to expect some responses like that, I know I did.
That's how some of the hardcore 1337 PvPer's roll.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Maybe instead of whining and praising this games, you should just go and play them? You can play UO and soon Shadowbane. They are most awesome games ever!
Seriosuly, stop living a past. Just because some new game is not EXACTLY your old game doesn't mean its bad.
Playing Darkfall right now and enjoying it. It's not FPS, it's MMOROPG - that's why skills and gear matters. There is grind but after playing in EVE I don't have "must max to enjoy game" attitude like OP. I'm having fun and laugh each time some 'vets' instead of having fun are making such threads. No matter how many times you will whine and bash games other people are playing, they will be still enjoying them.
Now go crawl to your basement and wait for "second coming of Jesus" mmorpg.
How can you call it wrong? Read it again:
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed:
Notice how skill is now more important? Skill was not unimportant in the first example, but it's more important in the second. That's what I'm getting at.
Any game where you can gang up on players with uneven teams makes population a factor. I seriously doubt UO was this magical PVP eden where every battle was a fair 1v1, 2v2, etc fight. Maybe unfair fights were rare (the weight was low) but they still probably happened to a degree.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
- Population (aka zerging), weight 5 (25%)
- Skill, weight 5 (25%)
- Gear, weight 5 (25%)
- Progression, weight 5 (25%)So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed: Population, weight 0 (0%) Skill, weight 5 (33%) Gear, weight 5 (33%) Progression, weight 5 (33%)
Notice how skill is now more important? Skill was not unimportant in the first example, but it's more important in the second. That's what I'm getting at.Any game where you can gang up on players with uneven teams makes population a factor. I seriously doubt UO was this magical PVP eden where every battle was a fair 1v1, 2v2, etc fight. Maybe unfair fights were rare (the weight was low) but they still probably happened to a degree.
You seriously should try some real PvP game. Have you played anything else besides WoW?
Let me finish that sentence...
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
No it is widely accepted by people who actually play or played the game, while it is widely not accepted by people like you who didn't play the game and know nothing about it, but still like to talk non sense.
DF has the best engine of every game I played, both in stability and performance, I rarely hear players complaining about lag (apart when there are sieges) or the client crashing.
You won't believe it, but in 6 months of DF I never ever crashed once.
The only 2 times I got disconnected was because my ISP..............that's how reliable the engine and the netcode is.
AV did an amazing job with the engine, to be honest coming from a tiny indie developer in Greece, I would never ever expected they could build such a solid code, particularly because more "professional" and established developers seems like they are not able to build a cn engine crash proof.
Only WoW has the same level of stability, but even there I used to be kicked out every now and then.
How can you call it wrong? Read it again:
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed:
I fixed it for you. Everything in Wow is gear based and yes that includes PvP as well.
Let me finish that sentence...
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
No it is widely accepted by people who actually play or played the game, while it is widely not accepted by people like you who didn't play the game and know nothing about it, but still like to talk non sense.
DF has the best engine of every game I played, both in stability and performance, I rarely hear players complaining about lag (apart when there are sieges) or the client crashing.
You won't believe it, but in 6 months of DF I never ever crashed once.
The only 2 times I got disconnected was because my ISP..............that's how reliable the engine and the netcode is.
AV did an amazing job with the engine, to be honest coming from a tiny indie developer in Greece, I would never ever expected they could build such a solid code, particularly because more "professional" and established developers seems like they are not able to build a cn engine crash proof.
Only WoW has the same level of stability, but even there I used to be kicked out every now and then.
Woah, woah woah, I love how people assume this every time. I played Darkfall. I hated it. It was a breath of fresh air for about a week and then straight back to the tedium with a community that doesn't know how to roleplay anything but gankers.
I understand it's a PvP game, but the point isn't to gank everyone. The point is to live a life in a world in the midsts of war. There aren't people going solo ganking untrained soldiers in real wartime.
Also, as far as the client goes, I got disconnected several times and not to mention the horrible special effects work where if you have shadows on in that game, it even has a nVidia 9800 down on its knees, all with not-nearly-impressive-enough-to-cause-that graphics.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
How can you call it wrong? Read it again:
"Non-skill factors like population (zerging) and verticle progression each have a weight they add to battle."
Note the emphasis.
"Weight" refers to the relative value of each factor, in terms of how important it is to winning:
So then you have WOW where things are mostly unchanged except population is removed:
I fixed it for you. Everything in Wow is gear based and yes that includes PvP as well.
Have to agree with the fix, and the SB part needs fixed a bit. He's going based too much off of fractions and not actual statistics. Nowhere near accurate. All untrained opinion.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Widely accepted...among it's fans. To everyone else, everything about the game is an abomination. Have you heard the shit talk about the UI? That's part of the engine bud.
Don't get me started on the horrible optimization.
No it is widely accepted by people who actually play or played the game, while it is widely not accepted by people like you who didn't play the game and know nothing about it, but still like to talk non sense.
DF has the best engine of every game I played, both in stability and performance, I rarely hear players complaining about lag (apart when there are sieges) or the client crashing.
You won't believe it, but in 6 months of DF I never ever crashed once.
The only 2 times I got disconnected was because my ISP..............that's how reliable the engine and the netcode is.
AV did an amazing job with the engine, to be honest coming from a tiny indie developer in Greece, I would never ever expected they could build such a solid code, particularly because more "professional" and established developers seems like they are not able to build a cn engine crash proof.
Only WoW has the same level of stability, but even there I used to be kicked out every now and then.
Woah, woah woah, I love how people assume this every time. I played Darkfall. I hated it. It was a breath of fresh air for about a week and then straight back to the tedium with a community that doesn't know how to roleplay anything but gankers.
I understand it's a PvP game, but the point isn't to gank everyone. The point is to live a life in a world in the midsts of war. There aren't people going solo ganking untrained soldiers in real wartime.
Also, as far as the client goes, I got disconnected several times and not to mention the horrible special effects work where if you have shadows on in that game, it even has a nVidia 9800 down on its knees, all with not-nearly-impressive-enough-to-cause-that graphics.
Wait, you quit Darkfall because there were no roleplayers? Now I understand all your hate posts about Darkfall in every thread about it. Don't expect a lot of treehuggers in PvP based game. Besides there are roleplaying clans and there were roleplaying clans since launch.
WoWs carrot on a stick is very much gear but there is a lot more to combat than that.
Gear also plays a part in games like DF ( as are the " best " builds ).. If it didnt then we wouldnt see people running around with the same equipment / abilities.. Attack of the Clones! Gear means something and nothing. Somehing cause it gives you a possible edge in combat and nothing because if you lose it you can replace it 2 seconds later with the same stuff.
I forgot to add in my previous post... /lol at " in DF you create your own patches ".. I swear these guys have never played a sandbox game before DF.