Wait, you quit Darkfall because there were no roleplayers? Now I understand all your hate posts about Darkfall in every thread about it. Don't expect a lot of treehuggers in PvP based game. Besides there are roleplaying clans and there were roleplaying clans since launch.
Not because there were no roleplayers. That wasn't what I was getting at by that.
I was getting at more role...filling? Idk. It seems everyone wants alignment points. Everyone wants to kill everyone else without a second thought. Everyone wants immediate action.
Besides people that get bored of it and try the other activities or the people that craft for their clan, people are there for the satisfying gank. That's it.
Originally posted by SlyLoK WoWs carrot on a stick is very much gear but there is a lot more to combat than that. Gear also plays a part in games like DF ( as are the " best " builds ).. If it didnt then we wouldnt see people running around with the same equipment / abilities.. Attack of the Clones! Gear means something and nothing. Somehing cause it gives you a possible edge in combat and nothing because if you lose it you can replace it 2 seconds later with the same stuff. I forgot to add in my previous post... /lol at " in DF you create your own patches ".. I swear these guys have never played a sandbox game before DF.
Enlighten me then what other sandbox games have to offer? Don't mention EVE, played it well almost 2 years and it have more sandbox option, but after 5 years on market. After 1 year it was turd, hated it back then.
WoWs carrot on a stick is very much gear but there is a lot more to combat than that. Gear also plays a part in games like DF ( as are the " best " builds ).. If it didnt then we wouldnt see people running around with the same equipment / abilities.. Attack of the Clones! Gear means something and nothing. Somehing cause it gives you a possible edge in combat and nothing because if you lose it you can replace it 2 seconds later with the same stuff. I forgot to add in my previous post... /lol at " in DF you create your own patches ".. I swear these guys have never played a sandbox game before DF.
Since when did WoW allow you to spec your own attributes?
/lol at the " awesome ' net code.. 90% of the game ( if not more ) is on the users PC and that means very little info needs to be passed back and forth and in turn that means less lag. But it also means easy peasy lemon squeezy when it comes to cheating. Their " net code " is based off of 1999 tech and it is far from good. Examples of such games would be Magestorm , Aliens Online..ect. Pretty much any FPS on the market in the 90s.
You don't know what your talking about, at all. Your running with what you -think- you comprehend and making base assumptions. If you think that small instanced match based games with a chat-hall matchmaking interface utilizes the same code and optimizations that a massive seamless world with thousands of players....heh. There is a reason MMOs gravitate towards autotargetting and instant-hit functions. I'm just going to leave it at that because your really not worth arguing with.
Your posting history shows you like playing the DF fanboy and hardcore card. So just save yourself the trouble, its a tripe argument.
Huh? Me a DF fanboy? I think you totally misred what I said. And you didnt check my post history because if you did you would see me laughing at Aventurine every chance I get.
And for todays MMOs yes they are much different as everything is server side butt its been proven that DF is not that way. They are using outdated methods by leaving tons of data on the user end. The same method old school games used to cut back on lag and server stress.
Enlighten me then what other sandbox games have to offer? Don't mention EVE, played it well almost 2 years and it have more sandbox option, but after 5 years on market. After 1 year it was turd, hated it back then.
Just mentioning all I can think of that are commonly referred to as sandboxes. Repeats will happen.
Ultima, Asheron's Call, Mimesis (not sure, can't remember), Asheron's Call 2, Face of Mankind, Wurm, Haven and Hearth, Darkfall, Mortal, Golemizer, EvE, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, quite a few MUDs, and...mind goes blank there...
OH! Pirates of the Burning Sea, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies, as well as the upcoming game Ensemble.
*facepalm* Forgot Sociolotron again. Due to debauchery, it's been cast aside, but it's about as free as player freedom gets.
WoWs carrot on a stick is very much gear but there is a lot more to combat than that. Gear also plays a part in games like DF ( as are the " best " builds ).. If it didnt then we wouldnt see people running around with the same equipment / abilities.. Attack of the Clones! Gear means something and nothing. Somehing cause it gives you a possible edge in combat and nothing because if you lose it you can replace it 2 seconds later with the same stuff. I forgot to add in my previous post... /lol at " in DF you create your own patches ".. I swear these guys have never played a sandbox game before DF.
Since when did WoW allow you to spec your own attributes?
What do you mean, "best build" in WoW?
Every game has a best build or a flavor of the month build if you prefer. Its usually a build that offers both flexibility and power , or a tanking build , or a dps build..ect.
Every game has a best build or a flavor of the month build if you prefer. Its usually a build that offers both flexibility and power , or a tanking build , or a dps build..ect.
In that case, wouldn't everyone end up with the same build looking for the "best build"? -_-'
That pretty much renders your last statement about WoW useless.
Originally posted by johnmatthais Originally posted by drago_pl Enlighten me then what other sandbox games have to offer? Don't mention EVE, played it well almost 2 years and it have more sandbox option, but after 5 years on market. After 1 year it was turd, hated it back then.
Just mentioning all I can think of that are commonly referred to as sandboxes. Repeats will happen. Ultima, Asheron's Call, Mimesis (not sure, can't remember), Asheron's Call 2, Face of Mankind, Wurm, Haven and Hearth, Darkfall, Mortal, Golemizer, EvE, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, quite a few MUDs, and...mind goes blank there... OH! Pirates of the Burning Sea, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies, as well as the upcoming game Ensemble. You forgot about Ryzom(best crafting and gathering ever), Entropia, A tale in the desert and Roma Victor... Anyway, my post was to this guy saying DF is not a sandbox...
Enlighten me then what other sandbox games have to offer? Don't mention EVE, played it well almost 2 years and it have more sandbox option, but after 5 years on market. After 1 year it was turd, hated it back then.
Just mentioning all I can think of that are commonly referred to as sandboxes. Repeats will happen.
Ultima, Asheron's Call, Mimesis (not sure, can't remember), Asheron's Call 2, Face of Mankind, Wurm, Haven and Hearth, Darkfall, Mortal, Golemizer, EvE, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, quite a few MUDs, and...mind goes blank there...
OH! Pirates of the Burning Sea, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies, as well as the upcoming game Ensemble.
You forgot about Ryzom(best crafting and gathering ever), Entropia, A tale in the desert and Roma Victor...
Anyway, my post was to this guy saying DF is not a sandbox...
I tried Ryzom for a week but I couldnt get into it.. I tried because what I heard about gathering and crafting. I didnt think it was as good as what Vanguard offers in that department.
I would tend to agree that Darkfall isnt a true sandbox.. 99% of the game is kill , kill , kill , kill and what little politics it has is based on who hurt whos feelings and which small guild a larger one wants to roll.
Many indy companies are trying to hide behind the term " sandbox " because they feel its a good excuse as to why a game is shallow and lacking any real content outside of ganking.
I was actually thinking of trying the game until a friend of mine related his experience.. We were partnered in UO and we ran a little hub of merchants and such.. Lots of stuff. Trying to do that in DF he ran across people who only wanted to run in a gank squad. He couldnt build up any resources at all because of it and each time he was greeted with a lawlz newb / carebear or even lolz dumb bot all because he wanted to craft instead be involved in the gankfest. That is far from sandbox.
Every game has a best build or a flavor of the month build if you prefer. Its usually a build that offers both flexibility and power , or a tanking build , or a dps build..ect.
In that case, wouldn't everyone end up with the same build looking for the "best build"? -_-'
That pretty much renders your last statement about WoW useless.
At least until you start talking about countering counters of counters with select abilities. DF just offers Halo bunny hopping and 1000 spells that do the same thing all of which were macroed.
/lol at the " awesome ' net code.. 90% of the game ( if not more ) is on the users PC and that means very little info needs to be passed back and forth and in turn that means less lag. But it also means easy peasy lemon squeezy when it comes to cheating. Their " net code " is based off of 1999 tech and it is far from good. Examples of such games would be Magestorm , Aliens Online..ect. Pretty much any FPS on the market in the 90s.
You don't know what your talking about, at all. Your running with what you -think- you comprehend and making base assumptions. If you think that small instanced match based games with a chat-hall matchmaking interface utilizes the same code and optimizations that a massive seamless world with thousands of players....heh. There is a reason MMOs gravitate towards autotargetting and instant-hit functions. I'm just going to leave it at that because your really not worth arguing with.
Your posting history shows you like playing the DF fanboy and hardcore card. So just save yourself the trouble, its a tripe argument.
Huh? Me a DF fanboy? I think you totally misred what I said. And you didnt check my post history because if you did you would see me laughing at Aventurine every chance I get.
And for todays MMOs yes they are much different as everything is server side butt its been proven that DF is not that way. They are using outdated methods by leaving tons of data on the user end. The same method old school games used to cut back on lag and server stress.
Reading comprehension ftl. Read the fanboy sentence again, then slap yourself. Like I said, you play the "you're a fanboy" card anytime you get in a conversation with someone about Darkfall.
Data left on the user end is always preferable to data on the server side in FPS games. It's better to have to deal with a handful of hacks that will eventually get their account banned, then to place everything server-side and have EVERYONE affected by compounding lag issues.
Hacks happen regardless(even on your preferred game, WoW), the only thing that actually matters is how well the parent company polices them. AV has been doing a good job in recent months.
Everything being serverside is not what I was referring to as the difference between the games you mentioned and Darkfall. There is a scale and optimation that has to be implemented into a netcode for a game on Darkfall's scale to work as an FPS title. Pointing at Magestorm... a game with 30 people deathmatches in minuture instanced maps is not comparable.
Many indy companies are trying to hide behind the term " sandbox " because they feel its a good excuse as to why a game is shallow and lacking any real content outside of ganking.
Lemme guess... Darkfall? Eve? I love how you totally ignore the whole territorial clan warfare aspect of those games. You know... the focal point of PvP oriented sandbox games. An aspect your preferred games lack. Cause obviously all you really do is gank.... its just a big gankfest where 1000s of people just run around ganking eachother endlessly w/out goal or focus. Are you really that ignorant of sandboxes?
I always forget that if a game doesn't have eleventy billion generic quests telling you to kill x of y or a static spawn boss that uses ability x, and y at situation a and b... its obviously lacking content. Oh... and an achievement system naturally, because those add soo much to a game <rolls eyes>.
Just because a game doesn't hold your hand every step of the way doesn't mean its lacking content. There is a reason Eve retains players so well, and it isn't because it hand feeds content to players. It's because the players make the game their own.
Lemme guess... Darkfall? Eve? I love how you totally ignore the whole territorial clan warfare aspect of those games. You know... the focal point of PvP oriented sandbox games. An aspect your preferred games lack. Cause obviously all you really do is gank.... its just a big gankfest where 1000s of people just run around ganking eachother endlessly w/out goal or focus. Are you really that ignorant of what happens in sandboxes? I always forget that if a game doesn't have eleventy billion generic quests telling you to kill x of y or a static spawn boss that uses ability x, and y at situation a and b... its obviously lacking content. Oh... and an achievement system naturally, because those add soo much to a game <rolls eyes>. Just because a game doesn't hold your hand every step of the way doesn't mean its lacking content. There is a reason Eve retains players so well, and it isn't because it hand feeds content to players. It's because the players make the game their own.
...annnnnd bang goes your credibility.
I don't give a flying fuck how organized it is, if all it is is a bunch of people getting together to kill other people and form a social ladder outside of the game's construct, then it's not a sandbox.
Your claim doesn't hold well because organization isn't a sandbox feature. In fact, it's a social aspect, not a feature at all.
All Darkfall is is ganking hidden cleverly behind the fact that you can gank at sea and build cities to use as bases whilst ganking each other while creating their own social hierarchy that they cleverly try to pass as real politics.
EvE, on the other hand, has a player-run economy cleverly tracked by a complex market along with a multitude of options for users and the guarantee that if you're a lone pilot, you're not going to get ganked by a war squad, unless it's a pirate war squad, which is highly unlikely.
EvE is totally unrelated to Darkfall, mainly in the sense that its community gets it and takes advantage of its offerings. Darkfall's community doesn't.
There's more to EvE than war. There's all sorts of trading, mining, politics, and soon social hubs.
EvE is Darkfall's superior on a multitude of levels.
I fixed it for you. Everything in Wow is gear based and yes that includes PvP as well.
So you can top Arena rating with Level 1 characters with Zero Talent Points spent (zero progression), while AFK (zero Skill)? ...as long as you could somehow have the best gear in the game on that character?
Drop the extremist nonsense and have a real discussion. My numbers clearly weren't designed to be accurate, merely to showcase a point.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You seriously should try some real PvP game. Have you played anything else besides WoW?
I've played a great many PVP games. I've played so many PVP games that (like I said) I don't bother with WOW PVP very often. It only eliminates some of the non-skill factors.
To me "real" PVP games are the ones where skill is by far the dominant factor in winning. So I play the better FPS, RTS, and Fighting games when I want good PVP.
The games the hardcore MMORPG community terms "real PVP" are some of the most watered down (with non-skill factors) games around. Oddly, in many of these "real PVP" games you spend less than half your game time actually PVPing. Honestly I wish someone would coin a superior term for it, since it's not really PVP even if it involves players fighting players (sometimes.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The games the hardcore MMORPG community terms "real PVP" are some of the most watered down (with non-skill factors) games around. Oddly, in many of these "real PVP" games you spend less than half your game time actually PVPing. Honestly I wish someone would coin a superior term for it, since it's not really PVP even if it involves players fighting players (sometimes.)
EvE is Darkfall's superior on a multitude of levels.
Here's a thought: This could be your opinion, and other people may have different opinions. Isn't it great that we have games that appeal to different tastes? I quite enjoyed my time in Darkfall, although I probably won't go back until there are some changes.
Now, if only we could get someone to make Shadowbane 2, with better graphics, even more character customization, tweaked siege rules, and a much, much more stable game engine.....
EvE is Darkfall's superior on a multitude of levels.
Here's a thought: This could be your opinion, and other people may have different opinions. Isn't it great that we have games that appeal to different tastes? I quite enjoyed my time in Darkfall, although I probably won't go back until there are some changes.
Now, if only we could get someone to make Shadowbane 2, with better graphics, even more character customization, tweaked siege rules, and a much, much more stable game engine.....
I would never log out. Ever.
Wow, I love how you came in and out of all the right-winged posts you picked mine, when I was simply stating a fact clearly shown by the fact that EvE's tutorial is one of the most grueling, as well as its learning curve and the fact that it's been called Excel Online, and still features full-loot PvP and player freedom, and yet it STILL has more than 6x Darkfall's sub numbers.
Wanna argue with that?
EDIT: Let's put it this way, EvE has set a concurrent user record higher than Darkfall's total subs.
Lineage 2 and Shadowbane win this thread. Best pvp games imo always will be until they make sequels to said games. Or make a game incredibly similar to them.
Lineage 2 and Shadowbane win this thread. Best pvp games imo always will be until they make sequels to said games. Or make a game incredibly similar to them.
Shadowbane is definitely on the winner list.
Lineage 2's only strong point was probably PvP. I constantly hear horror stories about the grind, lol.
...annnnnd bang goes your credibility. I don't give a flying fuck how organized it is, if all it is is a bunch of people getting together to kill other people and form a social ladder outside of the game's construct, then it's not a sandbox.
You need credibility before you can shoot down someone elses credibility, and you're in short supply.
Somewhere along the line some people got confused about the meaning of ganking... and somehow lumped it in which every type of PvP imaginable.
I'm not going to debate what is or is not a sandbox. It's a retarded argument that leaves everyone huffing and puffing and nobody satisfied. And I'm certainly not going to argue that Darkfall is a better sandbox than Eve. I'm not even sure how the hell you got off to ranting about that point in the first place. Not only did I not indicate anything like that, it isn't even relevant to the point I was making... which is if you choose to ignore organized PvP elements, territorial control, political posturing, and everything else that comprises Darkfall's PvP as purely ganking... you have no business commenting on PvP oriented games.
By the way, player developed organization in the otherwise chaotic nature of a "sandbox" is the ultimate feature. You create your paths, you don't walk on roads that are already prefrabricated for you by the developers. That's the ultimate appeal, a sense of freedom and world development. People don't just "get together to kill other people"... clans rally with other clans to effect events that shape the nature of the world. Power is maintained or traded at the tip of a group of players collective swords. Goals are set and met by the social structures you so carelessly piss away as nothing more than gank squads. Both Eve and Darkfall have that freedom, and while Eve certainly has more of it... it also has a 6 year headstart.
Comments
Not because there were no roleplayers. That wasn't what I was getting at by that.
I was getting at more role...filling? Idk. It seems everyone wants alignment points. Everyone wants to kill everyone else without a second thought. Everyone wants immediate action.
Besides people that get bored of it and try the other activities or the people that craft for their clan, people are there for the satisfying gank. That's it.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Since when did WoW allow you to spec your own attributes?
What do you mean, "best build" in WoW?
Check out the MUD I'm making!
You don't know what your talking about, at all. Your running with what you -think- you comprehend and making base assumptions. If you think that small instanced match based games with a chat-hall matchmaking interface utilizes the same code and optimizations that a massive seamless world with thousands of players....heh. There is a reason MMOs gravitate towards autotargetting and instant-hit functions. I'm just going to leave it at that because your really not worth arguing with.
Your posting history shows you like playing the DF fanboy and hardcore card. So just save yourself the trouble, its a tripe argument.
Huh? Me a DF fanboy? I think you totally misred what I said. And you didnt check my post history because if you did you would see me laughing at Aventurine every chance I get.
And for todays MMOs yes they are much different as everything is server side butt its been proven that DF is not that way. They are using outdated methods by leaving tons of data on the user end. The same method old school games used to cut back on lag and server stress.
Just mentioning all I can think of that are commonly referred to as sandboxes. Repeats will happen.
Ultima, Asheron's Call, Mimesis (not sure, can't remember), Asheron's Call 2, Face of Mankind, Wurm, Haven and Hearth, Darkfall, Mortal, Golemizer, EvE, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, quite a few MUDs, and...mind goes blank there...
OH! Pirates of the Burning Sea, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies, as well as the upcoming game Ensemble.
*facepalm* Forgot Sociolotron again. Due to debauchery, it's been cast aside, but it's about as free as player freedom gets.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Since when did WoW allow you to spec your own attributes?
What do you mean, "best build" in WoW?
Every game has a best build or a flavor of the month build if you prefer. Its usually a build that offers both flexibility and power , or a tanking build , or a dps build..ect.
In that case, wouldn't everyone end up with the same build looking for the "best build"? -_-'
That pretty much renders your last statement about WoW useless.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Ultima, Asheron's Call, Mimesis (not sure, can't remember), Asheron's Call 2, Face of Mankind, Wurm, Haven and Hearth, Darkfall, Mortal, Golemizer, EvE, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, quite a few MUDs, and...mind goes blank there...
OH! Pirates of the Burning Sea, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies, as well as the upcoming game Ensemble.
You forgot about Ryzom(best crafting and gathering ever), Entropia, A tale in the desert and Roma Victor...
Anyway, my post was to this guy saying DF is not a sandbox...
Damnit, damnit, damnit, and damnit.
I actually paid for RV and was subbed to ATitD for a while too. >.>
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Just mentioning all I can think of that are commonly referred to as sandboxes. Repeats will happen.
Ultima, Asheron's Call, Mimesis (not sure, can't remember), Asheron's Call 2, Face of Mankind, Wurm, Haven and Hearth, Darkfall, Mortal, Golemizer, EvE, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, quite a few MUDs, and...mind goes blank there...
OH! Pirates of the Burning Sea, Vanguard and Star Wars Galaxies, as well as the upcoming game Ensemble.
You forgot about Ryzom(best crafting and gathering ever), Entropia, A tale in the desert and Roma Victor...
Anyway, my post was to this guy saying DF is not a sandbox...
I tried Ryzom for a week but I couldnt get into it.. I tried because what I heard about gathering and crafting. I didnt think it was as good as what Vanguard offers in that department.
I would tend to agree that Darkfall isnt a true sandbox.. 99% of the game is kill , kill , kill , kill and what little politics it has is based on who hurt whos feelings and which small guild a larger one wants to roll.
Many indy companies are trying to hide behind the term " sandbox " because they feel its a good excuse as to why a game is shallow and lacking any real content outside of ganking.
I was actually thinking of trying the game until a friend of mine related his experience.. We were partnered in UO and we ran a little hub of merchants and such.. Lots of stuff. Trying to do that in DF he ran across people who only wanted to run in a gank squad. He couldnt build up any resources at all because of it and each time he was greeted with a lawlz newb / carebear or even lolz dumb bot all because he wanted to craft instead be involved in the gankfest. That is far from sandbox.
In that case, wouldn't everyone end up with the same build looking for the "best build"? -_-'
That pretty much renders your last statement about WoW useless.
At least until you start talking about countering counters of counters with select abilities. DF just offers Halo bunny hopping and 1000 spells that do the same thing all of which were macroed.
Those two titles were definitely fun in their day but pale in comparison to PVP in DF or DAOC
You don't know what your talking about, at all. Your running with what you -think- you comprehend and making base assumptions. If you think that small instanced match based games with a chat-hall matchmaking interface utilizes the same code and optimizations that a massive seamless world with thousands of players....heh. There is a reason MMOs gravitate towards autotargetting and instant-hit functions. I'm just going to leave it at that because your really not worth arguing with.
Your posting history shows you like playing the DF fanboy and hardcore card. So just save yourself the trouble, its a tripe argument.
Huh? Me a DF fanboy? I think you totally misred what I said. And you didnt check my post history because if you did you would see me laughing at Aventurine every chance I get.
And for todays MMOs yes they are much different as everything is server side butt its been proven that DF is not that way. They are using outdated methods by leaving tons of data on the user end. The same method old school games used to cut back on lag and server stress.
Reading comprehension ftl. Read the fanboy sentence again, then slap yourself. Like I said, you play the "you're a fanboy" card anytime you get in a conversation with someone about Darkfall.
Data left on the user end is always preferable to data on the server side in FPS games. It's better to have to deal with a handful of hacks that will eventually get their account banned, then to place everything server-side and have EVERYONE affected by compounding lag issues.
Hacks happen regardless(even on your preferred game, WoW), the only thing that actually matters is how well the parent company polices them. AV has been doing a good job in recent months.
Everything being serverside is not what I was referring to as the difference between the games you mentioned and Darkfall. There is a scale and optimation that has to be implemented into a netcode for a game on Darkfall's scale to work as an FPS title. Pointing at Magestorm... a game with 30 people deathmatches in minuture instanced maps is not comparable.
Lemme guess... Darkfall? Eve? I love how you totally ignore the whole territorial clan warfare aspect of those games. You know... the focal point of PvP oriented sandbox games. An aspect your preferred games lack. Cause obviously all you really do is gank.... its just a big gankfest where 1000s of people just run around ganking eachother endlessly w/out goal or focus. Are you really that ignorant of sandboxes?
I always forget that if a game doesn't have eleventy billion generic quests telling you to kill x of y or a static spawn boss that uses ability x, and y at situation a and b... its obviously lacking content. Oh... and an achievement system naturally, because those add soo much to a game <rolls eyes>.
Just because a game doesn't hold your hand every step of the way doesn't mean its lacking content. There is a reason Eve retains players so well, and it isn't because it hand feeds content to players. It's because the players make the game their own.
Damnit, damnit, damnit, and damnit.
I actually paid for RV and was subbed to ATitD for a while too. >.>
I'd put Istaria in there as well, you can pretty much do and be anything there.
Venge Sunsoar
...annnnnd bang goes your credibility.
I don't give a flying fuck how organized it is, if all it is is a bunch of people getting together to kill other people and form a social ladder outside of the game's construct, then it's not a sandbox.
Your claim doesn't hold well because organization isn't a sandbox feature. In fact, it's a social aspect, not a feature at all.
All Darkfall is is ganking hidden cleverly behind the fact that you can gank at sea and build cities to use as bases whilst ganking each other while creating their own social hierarchy that they cleverly try to pass as real politics.
EvE, on the other hand, has a player-run economy cleverly tracked by a complex market along with a multitude of options for users and the guarantee that if you're a lone pilot, you're not going to get ganked by a war squad, unless it's a pirate war squad, which is highly unlikely.
EvE is totally unrelated to Darkfall, mainly in the sense that its community gets it and takes advantage of its offerings. Darkfall's community doesn't.
There's more to EvE than war. There's all sorts of trading, mining, politics, and soon social hubs.
EvE is Darkfall's superior on a multitude of levels.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Damnit, damnit, damnit, and damnit.
I actually paid for RV and was subbed to ATitD for a while too. >.>
I'd put Istaria in there as well, you can pretty much do and be anything there.
Venge Sunsoar
Thanks Venge. =]
Check out the MUD I'm making!
I fixed it for you. Everything in Wow is gear based and yes that includes PvP as well.
So you can top Arena rating with Level 1 characters with Zero Talent Points spent (zero progression), while AFK (zero Skill)? ...as long as you could somehow have the best gear in the game on that character?
Drop the extremist nonsense and have a real discussion. My numbers clearly weren't designed to be accurate, merely to showcase a point.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I've played a great many PVP games. I've played so many PVP games that (like I said) I don't bother with WOW PVP very often. It only eliminates some of the non-skill factors.
To me "real" PVP games are the ones where skill is by far the dominant factor in winning. So I play the better FPS, RTS, and Fighting games when I want good PVP.
The games the hardcore MMORPG community terms "real PVP" are some of the most watered down (with non-skill factors) games around. Oddly, in many of these "real PVP" games you spend less than half your game time actually PVPing. Honestly I wish someone would coin a superior term for it, since it's not really PVP even if it involves players fighting players (sometimes.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"competitive skill grinding" xD
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Here's a thought: This could be your opinion, and other people may have different opinions. Isn't it great that we have games that appeal to different tastes? I quite enjoyed my time in Darkfall, although I probably won't go back until there are some changes.
Now, if only we could get someone to make Shadowbane 2, with better graphics, even more character customization, tweaked siege rules, and a much, much more stable game engine.....
I would never log out. Ever.
Here's a thought: This could be your opinion, and other people may have different opinions. Isn't it great that we have games that appeal to different tastes? I quite enjoyed my time in Darkfall, although I probably won't go back until there are some changes.
Now, if only we could get someone to make Shadowbane 2, with better graphics, even more character customization, tweaked siege rules, and a much, much more stable game engine.....
I would never log out. Ever.
Wow, I love how you came in and out of all the right-winged posts you picked mine, when I was simply stating a fact clearly shown by the fact that EvE's tutorial is one of the most grueling, as well as its learning curve and the fact that it's been called Excel Online, and still features full-loot PvP and player freedom, and yet it STILL has more than 6x Darkfall's sub numbers.
Wanna argue with that?
EDIT: Let's put it this way, EvE has set a concurrent user record higher than Darkfall's total subs.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
Lineage 2 and Shadowbane win this thread. Best pvp games imo always will be until they make sequels to said games. Or make a game incredibly similar to them.
i do shit
Shadowbane is definitely on the winner list.
Lineage 2's only strong point was probably PvP. I constantly hear horror stories about the grind, lol.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
You need credibility before you can shoot down someone elses credibility, and you're in short supply.
Somewhere along the line some people got confused about the meaning of ganking... and somehow lumped it in which every type of PvP imaginable.
I'm not going to debate what is or is not a sandbox. It's a retarded argument that leaves everyone huffing and puffing and nobody satisfied. And I'm certainly not going to argue that Darkfall is a better sandbox than Eve. I'm not even sure how the hell you got off to ranting about that point in the first place. Not only did I not indicate anything like that, it isn't even relevant to the point I was making... which is if you choose to ignore organized PvP elements, territorial control, political posturing, and everything else that comprises Darkfall's PvP as purely ganking... you have no business commenting on PvP oriented games.
By the way, player developed organization in the otherwise chaotic nature of a "sandbox" is the ultimate feature. You create your paths, you don't walk on roads that are already prefrabricated for you by the developers. That's the ultimate appeal, a sense of freedom and world development. People don't just "get together to kill other people"... clans rally with other clans to effect events that shape the nature of the world. Power is maintained or traded at the tip of a group of players collective swords. Goals are set and met by the social structures you so carelessly piss away as nothing more than gank squads. Both Eve and Darkfall have that freedom, and while Eve certainly has more of it... it also has a 6 year headstart.