Originally posted by xoring Think of this as a mini expansion that's proportionally cheaper.
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Thank god I did not buy this game after I preordered ..(I returned after open beta) ... First time trying a Cryptic game and the last time ... Never will I touch a Cryptic game again.
You get 400 C Store credits for reg a retail key to your account anyway, so the two races in the cstore at launch is not asking you to shell out more cash to use them.
Oh, I imagine they can get quite creative; after all, they need to generate a certain amount of revenue before April to get that $20,000,000 bonus from Atari.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
You get 400 C Store credits for reg a retail key to your account anyway, so the two races in the cstore at launch is not asking you to shell out more cash to use them.
It did catch a lot of the players off guard though, and it does bring up an interesting question: What exactly is Cryptic going to consider a cash shop item with an in-game effect? Remember that Cryptic has been saying for quite awhile now that if they offer something in the shop that has an in-game effect, you would be able to acquire it in the game without having to pay for it. Considering that most of the preset races have at least one unique ability that the other races (including custom ones) can't get, does this mean that the federation Ferengi and Klingons can be acquired in some way in the game? Or are they using their own definitions that most players wouldn't agree with, as they have done frequently?
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
so........you can't create your own race...like this video shows www.youtube.com/watch but for the low low price of $$$$ you can purchase one of theirs?
Yes, you can create your own race. Which can have ANY racial attributes you want it to. Which means that ANY races they sell in the C-Store (and the many which are included in the retail product for that matter) are PURELY cosmetic. But don't tell these guys that.
so........you can't create your own race...like this video shows www.youtube.com/watch but for the low low price of $$$$ you can purchase one of theirs?
Yes, you can create your own race. Which can have ANY racial attributes you want it to. Which means that ANY races they sell in the C-Store (and the many which are included in the retail product for that matter) are PURELY cosmetic. But don't tell these guys that.
I think that people here get that.
I also think that they think that the box price and a sub should cover stuff that was created during the dev period, like player races, especially in a game thats pretty superficial and shallow anyhow on the content it offers.
Its all about value for money... percieved profit over protiteering... do you get the impression from this thread that people think that STO, as launched, offers good value for money?
I don't.
Offering stuff for sale that has been simply left out of the game on purpose as optional extras is always going to get a bad response. Maybe they would have got away with this if they had put the races in 3 months down the line, but at launch? Asking for trouble tbh.
I hate all cash shops in games personally, even for fluff items, and STO is no exception. These games should be about playing them and earning your characters advancement, not just being a consumer in a virtual market space and buying your way to 'success'. What fun is there in that anyhow? Why would a gamer even want to just buy rewards, rather then have the fun of playing to win them? I don't get it. Play to Achieve > Pay to Achieve anytime.
You get 400 C Store credits for reg a retail key to your account anyway, so the two races in the cstore at launch is not asking you to shell out more cash to use them.
These games should be about playing them and earning your characters advancement, not just being a consumer in a virtual market space and buying your way to 'success'. What fun is there in that anyhow? Why would a gamer even want to just buy rewards, rather then have the fun of playing to win them? I don't get it. Play to Achieve > Pay to Achieve anytime.
It's a purely cosmetic "reward". It's not like you're buying levels or XP.
Some people don't care about trivial things like the color of their character's boots. Other people want their boots to match their outfit. If they want to pay extra to get their boots in a particular color, what's the big deal? It has absolutely no effect on the game play. The NPC's aren't going to be nicer to you because your outfit looks prettier. Having a boots that cosmetically match your rifle won't make your rifle do more damage.
I don't blame Cryptic for selling additional cosmetic content. I think it's actually pretty silly to spend money on it though. And the people who are complaining seem to be making a big deal out of something that's really trivial.
Well, I had my doubts about this game, but after reading this, I for sure will not try it out. It's time we take a stance with regard to being milked to death from our money for every feature in an MMO.
These games should be about playing them and earning your characters advancement, not just being a consumer in a virtual market space and buying your way to 'success'. What fun is there in that anyhow? Why would a gamer even want to just buy rewards, rather then have the fun of playing to win them? I don't get it. Play to Achieve > Pay to Achieve anytime.
It's a purely cosmetic "reward". It's not like you're buying levels or XP.
Wouldnt you have rather have had to spend an evening or whatever doing a quest chain (learning to beat a challange, enjoying a story) to unlock the extra races over simply clicking into a shop and buying them? if not, why are you even playing a game?
Heres where the cash 'cosmetic' shop guys should really be hanging out... http://www.imvu.com/
Listen, seriously, If people wanna be that guy who spends money on content that should be part of the sub, they can knock themselves out. I don't is all, and I think they are mugs for doing it.
The way i see things though, all in game content to me should be played for, not purchased. I don't get any sense of achievement going to a cash store and purchasing a skin for my character and I resent that there will be content in a game that i wont be able to access unless I pay extra, when i have already purchased the frikin game.
I can't believe how easily the gaming public has been seduced into this revenue model tbh... the fact that people are willing to be nickel and dimed to death this way is pretty amazing.
The way I see it...
DLC (zones etc) to be charged for is fine to me, as long as the original game isnt light on content (like CO was and STO is). It's there to be played through.
Game services (transfers etc) to be charged for is acceptable, though not ideal.
ANY in game rewards (fluff or otherwise) being charged for is BS and a rip off.
so........you can't create your own race...like this video shows www.youtube.com/watch but for the low low price of $$$$ you can purchase one of theirs?
Yes, you can create your own race. Which can have ANY racial attributes you want it to. Which means that ANY races they sell in the C-Store (and the many which are included in the retail product for that matter) are PURELY cosmetic. But don't tell these guys that.
That's not entirely true; while most abilities are available to everyone, there are some racial abilities that cannot be taken by other races.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
In my world , the only game that would be allowed to have a cash store would be a free to play title. The very fact that I pay a monthly sub should be enough for any content that is in the game and I am able to unlock,; if I can't then that would be my fault.
Sorry if i digress,but what is the name of the man calling the shots in cryptic?i mean,the guy who said "yeah,we'll put that in C-Store for xx price at xx time". I ask that because if this same guy get fired from Cryptic i can still avoid games from that bastard.
Sorry if i digress,but what is the name of the man calling the shots in cryptic?i mean,the guy who said "yeah,we'll put that in C-Store for xx price at xx time". I ask that because if this same guy get fired from Cryptic i can still avoid games from that bastard.
I believe Bill Roper (infamous for the Hellgate: London fiasco) is steering the ship, though Jack Emmert (the guy who insisted the Klingon 'faction' had to be in the game, even though they didn't have the time to do them) has quite a bit of input as well. I'm not sure who all else had a hand in making descisions for STO.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Originally posted by xoring Think of this as a mini expansion that's proportionally cheaper.
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins. "Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits." and, "Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site) Those are some pretty badass buffs.
Yes because of the buffs they cannot be classed as completely cosmetic but they are not fully playable races as they are Federation chars that go through the same content as other Federation chars.
Where as Klingons have their own completely different content.
With all the pre-order goodies that people have been getting it is nice to see that Crypitc are offering other goodies to people who did not pre-order, something different.
This also allows for a diverse make up of the Federation. I know it sounds lame but there are very few Klingons and Ferengi in the Federation and charging for beening one will limit the number you see running around.
And don't start on in game malls as we are responsible for that with all the people buying gold in games, creating a demand for it.
Originally posted by xoring Think of this as a mini expansion that's proportionally cheaper.
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
"It's fairly limited right now. It will include the Ferengi and Klingon races to be playable for the Federation side at launch. We want to get an idea of what players want before adding much more. But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
Cool, ok, how do I get these two new races in game then? They seem to have stats that effect gameplay yes? So they should be ways to attain them for free, by playing?
Originally posted by xoring Think of this as a mini expansion that's proportionally cheaper.
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
"It's fairly limited right now. It will include the Ferengi and Klingon races to be playable for the Federation side at launch. We want to get an idea of what players want before adding much more. But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
Cool, ok, how do I get these two new races in game then? They seem to have stats that effect gameplay yes? So they should be ways to attain them for free, by playing?
Or lies already?
Doesn't necessarily mean it will be available in-game right away. That would decrease the value of purchasing it through the C-Store.
This also allows for a diverse make up of the Federation. I know it sounds lame but there are very few Klingons and Ferengi in the Federation and charging for beening one will limit the number you see running around. And don't start on in game malls as we are responsible for that with all the people buying gold in games, creating a demand for it.
From what I saw in OB, the most popular character was to make your own alien race. It was completely unnecessary to use an item mall to limit ferengi and klingon numbers. Not when you can pretty much make something completely unique outside of official races of star trek.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Originally posted by VultureSkull This also allows for a diverse make up of the Federation. I know it sounds lame but there are very few Klingons and Ferengi in the Federation and charging for beening one will limit the number you see running around.
The thing is though, they have been touting their character customization to make pretty much any alien race you wanted to (as long as it was a basic humanoid). They had been talking about the ability to make a Klingon (and if memory serves me, Ferengi as well) in the Federation in many past interviews as well; nowhere in those interviews was it ever mentioned this would be only if you purchased them from the store. Also, you need to remember that this game takes place thirty years after Nemesis; what happened in the shows, or in this case what races were represented, has little bearing on being able to play on in this time period.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Originally posted by xoring Think of this as a mini expansion that's proportionally cheaper.
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
"It's fairly limited right now. It will include the Ferengi and Klingon races to be playable for the Federation side at launch. We want to get an idea of what players want before adding much more. But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
Cool, ok, how do I get these two new races in game then? They seem to have stats that effect gameplay yes? So they should be ways to attain them for free, by playing?
Or lies already?
Doesn't necessarily mean it will be available in-game right away. That would decrease the value of purchasing it through the C-Store.
I'm pretty sure you just summarized everyone's concern. The races affect gameplay and they are not available outside of the online store. This creates greater demand for the races via RMT (as you rightly point out), and this is the problem. Emmert said that Cryptic would not do this; and apparently they have.
P.S. Someone earlier said that the buffs aren't "kickass." If a 40% resistance buff isn't kickass, I don't know what is. That aside, buffs of any magnitude affect gameplay, and that is the issue. There must be an ingame option, or Emmert and co. seem to have broken their word.
It's no wonder people are looking at refunds. Cryptic brought this on themselves. They'll be lucky if they only get bad press on the game forums.
lol absolutely amazing the length MMOs are going to nickel and dime people, not that I was going to be one of the suckers to buy this unfinished game, but that just punches the nail into the coffin.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 I'm pretty sure you just summarized everyone's concern. The races affect gameplay and they are not available outside of the online store. This creates greater demand for the races via RMT (as you rightly point out), and this is the problem. Emmert said that Cryptic would not do this; and apparently they have. P.S. Someone earlier said that the buffs aren't "kickass." If a 40% resistance buff isn't kickass, I don't know what is. That aside, buffs of any magnitude affect gameplay, and that is the issue. There must be an ingame option, or Emmert and co. seem to have broken their word. It's no wonder people are looking at refunds. Cryptic brought this on themselves. They'll be lucky if they only get bad press on the game forums.
Speaking in a matter of fact, any ingame item affects gameplay.
No one brokes his word since a definition of affecting gameplay is broad open. Which might be an issue but that only time will show.
If you have actualy played the game instead of judging without personal experience, you would notice how negligable the racial traits are.
Then again, there are 15 races to chose from with more or less unique traits and you would actualy need to prove that C-Store characters provides some noticable advantage over those said 15 races to raise a valid point.
Comments
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Thank god I did not buy this game after I preordered ..(I returned after open beta) ... First time trying a Cryptic game and the last time ... Never will I touch a Cryptic game again.
Later all.
You get 400 C Store credits for reg a retail key to your account anyway, so the two races in the cstore at launch is not asking you to shell out more cash to use them.
Oh, I imagine they can get quite creative; after all, they need to generate a certain amount of revenue before April to get that $20,000,000 bonus from Atari.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
It did catch a lot of the players off guard though, and it does bring up an interesting question: What exactly is Cryptic going to consider a cash shop item with an in-game effect? Remember that Cryptic has been saying for quite awhile now that if they offer something in the shop that has an in-game effect, you would be able to acquire it in the game without having to pay for it. Considering that most of the preset races have at least one unique ability that the other races (including custom ones) can't get, does this mean that the federation Ferengi and Klingons can be acquired in some way in the game? Or are they using their own definitions that most players wouldn't agree with, as they have done frequently?
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Yes, you can create your own race. Which can have ANY racial attributes you want it to. Which means that ANY races they sell in the C-Store (and the many which are included in the retail product for that matter) are PURELY cosmetic. But don't tell these guys that.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
Yes, you can create your own race. Which can have ANY racial attributes you want it to. Which means that ANY races they sell in the C-Store (and the many which are included in the retail product for that matter) are PURELY cosmetic. But don't tell these guys that.
I think that people here get that.
I also think that they think that the box price and a sub should cover stuff that was created during the dev period, like player races, especially in a game thats pretty superficial and shallow anyhow on the content it offers.
Its all about value for money... percieved profit over protiteering... do you get the impression from this thread that people think that STO, as launched, offers good value for money?
I don't.
Offering stuff for sale that has been simply left out of the game on purpose as optional extras is always going to get a bad response. Maybe they would have got away with this if they had put the races in 3 months down the line, but at launch? Asking for trouble tbh.
I hate all cash shops in games personally, even for fluff items, and STO is no exception. These games should be about playing them and earning your characters advancement, not just being a consumer in a virtual market space and buying your way to 'success'. What fun is there in that anyhow? Why would a gamer even want to just buy rewards, rather then have the fun of playing to win them? I don't get it. Play to Achieve > Pay to Achieve anytime.
The first hit is free right? lol
It's a purely cosmetic "reward". It's not like you're buying levels or XP.
Some people don't care about trivial things like the color of their character's boots. Other people want their boots to match their outfit. If they want to pay extra to get their boots in a particular color, what's the big deal? It has absolutely no effect on the game play. The NPC's aren't going to be nicer to you because your outfit looks prettier. Having a boots that cosmetically match your rifle won't make your rifle do more damage.
I don't blame Cryptic for selling additional cosmetic content. I think it's actually pretty silly to spend money on it though. And the people who are complaining seem to be making a big deal out of something that's really trivial.
Well, I had my doubts about this game, but after reading this, I for sure will not try it out. It's time we take a stance with regard to being milked to death from our money for every feature in an MMO.
Paying a monthly fee should be enough, period.
It's a purely cosmetic "reward". It's not like you're buying levels or XP.
Wouldnt you have rather have had to spend an evening or whatever doing a quest chain (learning to beat a challange, enjoying a story) to unlock the extra races over simply clicking into a shop and buying them? if not, why are you even playing a game?
Heres where the cash 'cosmetic' shop guys should really be hanging out... http://www.imvu.com/
Listen, seriously, If people wanna be that guy who spends money on content that should be part of the sub, they can knock themselves out. I don't is all, and I think they are mugs for doing it.
The way i see things though, all in game content to me should be played for, not purchased. I don't get any sense of achievement going to a cash store and purchasing a skin for my character and I resent that there will be content in a game that i wont be able to access unless I pay extra, when i have already purchased the frikin game.
I can't believe how easily the gaming public has been seduced into this revenue model tbh... the fact that people are willing to be nickel and dimed to death this way is pretty amazing.
The way I see it...
DLC (zones etc) to be charged for is fine to me, as long as the original game isnt light on content (like CO was and STO is). It's there to be played through.
Game services (transfers etc) to be charged for is acceptable, though not ideal.
ANY in game rewards (fluff or otherwise) being charged for is BS and a rip off.
Yes, you can create your own race. Which can have ANY racial attributes you want it to. Which means that ANY races they sell in the C-Store (and the many which are included in the retail product for that matter) are PURELY cosmetic. But don't tell these guys that.
That's not entirely true; while most abilities are available to everyone, there are some racial abilities that cannot be taken by other races.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
In my world , the only game that would be allowed to have a cash store would be a free to play title. The very fact that I pay a monthly sub should be enough for any content that is in the game and I am able to unlock,; if I can't then that would be my fault.
Sorry if i digress,but what is the name of the man calling the shots in cryptic?i mean,the guy who said "yeah,we'll put that in C-Store for xx price at xx time". I ask that because if this same guy get fired from Cryptic i can still avoid games from that bastard.
I believe Bill Roper (infamous for the Hellgate: London fiasco) is steering the ship, though Jack Emmert (the guy who insisted the Klingon 'faction' had to be in the game, even though they didn't have the time to do them) has quite a bit of input as well. I'm not sure who all else had a hand in making descisions for STO.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
Those are some pretty badass buffs.
Yes because of the buffs they cannot be classed as completely cosmetic but they are not fully playable races as they are Federation chars that go through the same content as other Federation chars.
Where as Klingons have their own completely different content.
With all the pre-order goodies that people have been getting it is nice to see that Crypitc are offering other goodies to people who did not pre-order, something different.
This also allows for a diverse make up of the Federation. I know it sounds lame but there are very few Klingons and Ferengi in the Federation and charging for beening one will limit the number you see running around.
And don't start on in game malls as we are responsible for that with all the people buying gold in games, creating a demand for it.
Man When did Sony or EA buy this game? was it this week or last?
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
Those are some pretty badass buffs.
From the launch day interview
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/3977
"It's fairly limited right now. It will include the Ferengi and Klingon races to be playable for the Federation side at launch. We want to get an idea of what players want before adding much more. But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
Cool, ok, how do I get these two new races in game then? They seem to have stats that effect gameplay yes? So they should be ways to attain them for free, by playing?
Or lies already?
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
Those are some pretty badass buffs.
From the launch day interview
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/3977
"It's fairly limited right now. It will include the Ferengi and Klingon races to be playable for the Federation side at launch. We want to get an idea of what players want before adding much more. But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
Cool, ok, how do I get these two new races in game then? They seem to have stats that effect gameplay yes? So they should be ways to attain them for free, by playing?
Or lies already?
Doesn't necessarily mean it will be available in-game right away. That would decrease the value of purchasing it through the C-Store.
From what I saw in OB, the most popular character was to make your own alien race. It was completely unnecessary to use an item mall to limit ferengi and klingon numbers. Not when you can pretty much make something completely unique outside of official races of star trek.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
The thing is though, they have been touting their character customization to make pretty much any alien race you wanted to (as long as it was a basic humanoid). They had been talking about the ability to make a Klingon (and if memory serves me, Ferengi as well) in the Federation in many past interviews as well; nowhere in those interviews was it ever mentioned this would be only if you purchased them from the store. Also, you need to remember that this game takes place thirty years after Nemesis; what happened in the shows, or in this case what races were represented, has little bearing on being able to play on in this time period.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
It's not at ALL proportionately cheaper.
Expansions are what, 30 bucks? For 3 dollars or so you get a Klingon skin and two Klingon abilities for a Federation officer. That's it. There's no special Federation Klingon starting area, no special content for them at all beyond the skin and two abilities. That's NOT 10% of any remotely decent expansion at all. Heck, that's not even 10% of a decent content patch. It's proportionately far, far more expensive.
See that distinction between a cosmetic skin and actual game content.
This is completely optional. Most people will never play half of the races available to them since at most you have only 5 slots available and about 15 races in the game.
A lot of people will never play Federation Klingon or Ferengi and never miss it.
All that other expansion content you mentioned would actually change the gameplay. Sound to me like it would make more sense to complain about having to pay for that since it's unavoidable content that you'd be missing out on. Not optional content that you don't need.
Before you go too far down your current path, you should know that the new playable races only available via the online store are not cosmetic skins.
"Not every Klingon warrior yearns to serve the Empire. Purchase of this option allows you to create Klingon Federation Officers. These Captains begin with the Warrior (5% improvement to Ranged Weapon Damage, 10% percent improvement to Physical Melee Damage, 10% improvement to Critical Severity) and Honorable (5% resistance to all damage, 10% improvement to Threat Rating) traits. They may choose two additional traits."
and,
"Put your latinum in the slot and create a Ferengi Federation Officer! These Captains begin with the Natural Immunities (40% resistance to Toxic Damage, 40% resistance to Radiation Damage) and Acute Senses (20% improvement to Stealth Sight, 10% bonus to Exploit Damage) traits. They may choose two additional traits." (STO official site)
Those are some pretty badass buffs.
From the launch day interview
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/3977
"It's fairly limited right now. It will include the Ferengi and Klingon races to be playable for the Federation side at launch. We want to get an idea of what players want before adding much more. But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
Cool, ok, how do I get these two new races in game then? They seem to have stats that effect gameplay yes? So they should be ways to attain them for free, by playing?
Or lies already?
Doesn't necessarily mean it will be available in-game right away. That would decrease the value of purchasing it through the C-Store.
I'm pretty sure you just summarized everyone's concern. The races affect gameplay and they are not available outside of the online store. This creates greater demand for the races via RMT (as you rightly point out), and this is the problem. Emmert said that Cryptic would not do this; and apparently they have.
P.S. Someone earlier said that the buffs aren't "kickass." If a 40% resistance buff isn't kickass, I don't know what is. That aside, buffs of any magnitude affect gameplay, and that is the issue. There must be an ingame option, or Emmert and co. seem to have broken their word.
It's no wonder people are looking at refunds. Cryptic brought this on themselves. They'll be lucky if they only get bad press on the game forums.
lol absolutely amazing the length MMOs are going to nickel and dime people, not that I was going to be one of the suckers to buy this unfinished game, but that just punches the nail into the coffin.
Speaking in a matter of fact, any ingame item affects gameplay.
No one brokes his word since a definition of affecting gameplay is broad open. Which might be an issue but that only time will show.
If you have actualy played the game instead of judging without personal experience, you would notice how negligable the racial traits are.
Then again, there are 15 races to chose from with more or less unique traits and you would actualy need to prove that C-Store characters provides some noticable advantage over those said 15 races to raise a valid point.