Bioware > Blizzard. I must say though that years ago when Blizzard had people like Jeff Strain, James Phinney, Mike O'brien, Pat Wyatt ,Bill Roper, Dave Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North, Blizzard was the best gaming company at that time. Now that all are gone, Blizzard is really an avevrage gaming company that is living off others reputation, milking every franchise they have because thats all they know how to do and it takes them 8+ years to even finish a project these days (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3).
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking?
Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW.
So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
UGH! I hate when people say horrible crap about SC 2 being split up into three parts! One part is larger then the WHOLE SC campaign. It is HUGE! Read before POSTING!
Diablo 3 has been in development because of Blizzards CRAZY best game ideology. They have this stupid ideology that if the game is not polished to the max and is not the best thing out in the market they will delay it and improve more and more (blame ghost for this ideology). Really just wait.. they are not getting ANY money from diablo 3 nor from SC 2 has they have no been released yet. If anything they are losing money from these two titles so far.
It isn't about how much content the 3 parts will have , it is about why they should have 3 parts at all other than tthe obvious faction of milking it and being greedy for that green. I'll be playing Starcraft2 for sure but I really see no need to make SC2 into 3 part other than the fact they want to bleed their fanbase of more money.
So you are telling me that it is totally acceptable for Blizzard to have Diablo 3 in 9 years developement and still counting ? Duke Nukem forever! So after they release D3 it will have been 11/12 years in developement for a rpg and you call that effecient ? I call it a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing. If D3 was a mmo I would really cut them some slack because mmos are more time consuming to make.
Bioware > Blizzard. I must say though that years ago when Blizzard had people like Jeff Strain, James Phinney, Mike O'brien, Pat Wyatt ,Bill Roper, Dave Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North, Blizzard was the best gaming company at that time. Now that all are gone, Blizzard is really an avevrage gaming company that is living off others reputation, milking every franchise they have because thats all they know how to do and it takes them 8+ years to even finish a project these days (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3).
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking?
Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW.
So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
UGH! I hate when people say horrible crap about SC 2 being split up into three parts! One part is larger then the WHOLE SC campaign. It is HUGE! Read before POSTING!
Diablo 3 has been in development because of Blizzards CRAZY best game ideology. They have this stupid ideology that if the game is not polished to the max and is not the best thing out in the market they will delay it and improve more and more (blame ghost for this ideology). Really just wait.. they are not getting ANY money from diablo 3 nor from SC 2 has they have no been released yet. If anything they are losing money from these two titles so far.
It isn't about how much content the 3 parts will have , it is about why they should have 3 parts at all other than tthe obvious faction of milking it and being greedy for that green. I'll be playing Starcraft2 for sure but I really see no need to make SC2 into 3 part other than the fact they want to bleed their fanbase of more money.
So you are telling me that it is totally acceptable for Blizzard to have Diablo 3 in 9 years developement and still counting ? Duke Nukem forever! So after they release D3 it will have been 11/12 years in developement for a rpg and you call that effecient ? I call it a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing. If D3 was a mmo I would really cut them some slack because mmos are more time consuming to make.
I don't see it has bleeding the fanbase. As long as each part is worth the value then so be it. What will be your complaint be if you are getting the same amount of content then that of other games out in the market? Should Blizzard put out all this content into one pack and mark it the same value of games that have half or even 1/3 the content that SC 2 has? No company in their right mind would put all this development money into all this extra content and make pretty much 3 games and mark it as one game. They would not be making a profit out of it.
It is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. I mean it is their game and they have the right to keep it in development for as long as they want. I really did not get what the big fuss was about over Duke Nukem forever. If they do not want to release it ohh well. Move along. Do you know the current state of Diablo 3? You are making these assumptions that might not be true at all. Maybe they have their fundings into something else, maybe their development team are being focused onto an other project. These two things will slow down the development of any game.
Once Blizzard comes out with something new and it is a success. No one will complain about how long it took or anything like that. I mean look at Darkfall. How many people still talk about how long it took and how it nearly went into vapourware status?
Bioware > Blizzard. I must say though that years ago when Blizzard had people like Jeff Strain, James Phinney, Mike O'brien, Pat Wyatt ,Bill Roper, Dave Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North, Blizzard was the best gaming company at that time. Now that all are gone, Blizzard is really an avevrage gaming company that is living off others reputation, milking every franchise they have because thats all they know how to do and it takes them 8+ years to even finish a project these days (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3).
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking?
Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW.
So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
UGH! I hate when people say horrible crap about SC 2 being split up into three parts! One part is larger then the WHOLE SC campaign. It is HUGE! Read before POSTING!
Diablo 3 has been in development because of Blizzards CRAZY best game ideology. They have this stupid ideology that if the game is not polished to the max and is not the best thing out in the market they will delay it and improve more and more (blame ghost for this ideology). Really just wait.. they are not getting ANY money from diablo 3 nor from SC 2 has they have no been released yet. If anything they are losing money from these two titles so far.
It isn't about how much content the 3 parts will have , it is about why they should have 3 parts at all other than tthe obvious faction of milking it and being greedy for that green. I'll be playing Starcraft2 for sure but I really see no need to make SC2 into 3 part other than the fact they want to bleed their fanbase of more money.
So you are telling me that it is totally acceptable for Blizzard to have Diablo 3 in 9 years developement and still counting ? Duke Nukem forever! So after they release D3 it will have been 11/12 years in developement for a rpg and you call that effecient ? I call it a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing. If D3 was a mmo I would really cut them some slack because mmos are more time consuming to make.
So is releasing expansions to games milking them or expanded the content? Also, did it occur to you that companies aren't going to waste their time to make and release a game if their current game is making them plenty of money, that's when you make gold/combined packages and then a new game.
Who knows, Diablo III might have been scratched several times, look at StarCraft: Ghost, Blizzard doesn't just pump out games and if you want call them greedy then why didn't they just release Ghost? Why haven't they released Diablo III or StarCraft II by now? If they are so greedy, then clearly there would be more games out.
From 1994-2003 they had released ten games and expansions, since 2004 (and release of WoW) they have released three games and expansions. They also charge half the price SOE does for server transfers and give services that you don't REQUIRE or NEED, but only if you WANT for World of Warcraft. Blizzard is greedy in the sense that they make a lot of money, but the accusation that they somehow use their power in terms of how much money they make, to make more money is absurd.
A linear storyline based game will not be more popular than the more open WoW. What you have to do is make a game that is more open than WoW to beat WoW. Like Darkfall for example. You need innovation, not handcuffs.
Hmm what can be more linear then push button get window choose instance you wanne run wait in que and with cross realms you be send to that instance.
thats SUPER LINEAR 0mtrs movement to instance lol.
WoW is not open anymore hehe.
Darkfall is best, but its for nich market it will never be for huge market, its just to hardcore as it should be:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
So is releasing expansions to games milking them or expanded the content? Also, did it occur to you that companies aren't going to waste their time to make and release a game if their current game is making them plenty of money, that's when you make gold/combined packages and then a new game.
Who knows, Diablo III might have been scratched several times, look at StarCraft: Ghost, Blizzard doesn't just pump out games and if you want call them greedy then why didn't they just release Ghost? Why haven't they released Diablo III or StarCraft II by now? If they are so greedy, then clearly there would be more games out.
From 1994-2003 they had released ten games and expansions, since 2004 (and release of WoW) they have released three games and expansions. They also charge half the price SOE does for server transfers and give services that you don't REQUIRE or NEED, but only if you WANT for World of Warcraft. Blizzard is greedy in the sense that they make a lot of money, but the accusation that they somehow use their power in terms of how much money they make, to make more money is absurd.
It's worse than that. Let's take a closer look at what they've released:
Saying that Blizzard released three games and expansions since 2004 is a bit overstating it. Upon closer look we have:
World of Warcraft 2004 MMORPG set in the Warcraft universe.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007 expansion pack
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King 2008 expansion pack
What that tells me is that as a game development company, they have stagnated and that their sole source of income is maintaining WoW. Starcraft (1998) was the last time Blizzard introduced a new intellectual property, that's 12 years ago! If I was an investor, I would say that Blizzard has lost its growth mojo and lacks the creativity and imagination to expand beyond its existing IPs. In other words, this company is dead in the water and ain't going anywhere. Prospects for growth ain't looking so good and the competitors are more attractive as growth investments, Bioware being one of them.
Bioware > Blizzard. I must say though that years ago when Blizzard had people like Jeff Strain, James Phinney, Mike O'brien, Pat Wyatt ,Bill Roper, Dave Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North, Blizzard was the best gaming company at that time. Now that all are gone, Blizzard is really an avevrage gaming company that is living off others reputation, milking every franchise they have because thats all they know how to do and it takes them 8+ years to even finish a project these days (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3).
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking? Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW. So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
Dont talk about greedy when talking about Bioware.
So, Blizzard is greedy because they are splitting up SC2 but Bioware isnt greedy for charging $6 for DLC quests that take an hour to complete?
Bioware isnt greedy for releasing a $40 expansion after 4 months?
Oh, but no, Blizzard is greedy and Bioware is completely benevolent.
Isn't a common complaint against Blizzard and WoW that their games are too simple? And that's why they are so popular. So, if you want TOR to be a good game wouldn't you not want it to beat WoW?
He does think it will. He thinks it is going to be the 'wow killa'! Initially he thought it would be CO but that was just a minor oversight.
Besides, if they adopt his concept of Sith players only being allowed to play perma death toons and Jedi players being transformed into pikachus upon res there's no way this game can fail.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Let's not even begin to talk about my fears for the "multiplayer" aspect of it. One phrase... "NPC companions" This phrase in and of itself causes me GREAT concern. I am by no means a stickler for forced grouping. Not no way, not no how. But I am one of those types of players that likes to see a slight need to rely on my fellow player.
You have a good point.
Every Bioware game has 3 details that doen't work well in a MMO.
1- Group/Class interaction between the player and NPCs is simplistic, very simplistic in every Bioware RPG. If we compare the group dynamics of Bioware games with Square Enix games it is easy to realise Bioware does not care or just don't know how to create a interesting and more complex "party" dynamics. This may work well with just one player and a couple of NPCs or in a multiplayer session in NeverWinter Nights, but it would be horrid in a MMORPG.
2-Broken worlds- every game Bioware made does not had the idea of a breathing world in it, I am not talking about zoning only, but loading all the time, the storytelling is more important than the feeling of a "alternative universe" for Bioware. Will they try something different now? They never did something really new, especially after KOTOR, every Bioware game that came after is a evolution of KOTOR, Dragon Age has a bit more of Baldur's Gate on it, but even so, will they revolutionize their on patterns to create a "game universe" needed in a MMORPG?
3-They never created complex combat dynamics that showed how important spells, skills and gear can be, usually in a Bioware games you have a selection of skills and spells and get loot all the time, but everything is generic and does not compare to the mechanics of gear/characters skills/stats of MMORPGs like Everquest2, Vanguard, WoW and Guild Wars. This is not a real issue in single player games that have a short term gameplay, will it work in a MMORPG?
I see the signs of greatness in the development teams. The Hand writing is on the wall, BLizzards days are coming to an end in one years time. Bioware has challenged the reason of mmos which were an attempt to broaden the gaming experience with massive multiplayer realities. At the time of everquest this was a great way to enhance the experience since graphics or interpersonal story driven game line were not possible at the time.
Now they are,...
So what has happened? A great exodus from mmo gaming because the SP game that we all played from the start before mmos has evolved into a greatness that now topples the mmo universe.
But do not fret, the greatest game is yet to come and it is again from Bioware...in 2011 They will breathe life into mmos again with the launch of the Old republic. Bioware is not lucky, they know what they are doing.
They saw the mmo reality hitting its height with WoW, the Greatest mmo to exist. But, there was no path further unless you delve back into the rpg roots of mmo's and bring forth a new age. YES A NEW AGE IS UPON US! BIOWARE IS BRINGING IT AND THOSE WHO RULED THE PAST WILL BECOME RUST UPON THE STONE TABLETS THAT WILL BE SET FORTH BI THE WARE.
If we were in New York City right now, you'd be the guy screaming about the end of the world on the milk crate with a mega phone. The mega phone is an option unless you were homeless, which could also be a definite possibility.
Nope.Why? Because the small amount of people that played or even noticed SWG is not even 1% of Star Wars fans. Therefor I was right in saying the vast majority of Star Wars fans could care less about gaming.
Baseless slippery-slope assumption. A does not mean B.
However, if you had said that the vast majority of Star Wars fans had not probably even heard about MMOs at the time when SWG came out, you probably would have been correct.
You are grasping at straws.. Just because the games are made mean nothing. The amount of people who play Star Wars games pale in comparison to the actual number of Star Wars fans. Its a simple concept that you are overlooking.
Bioware > Blizzard. I must say though that years ago when Blizzard had people like Jeff Strain, James Phinney, Mike O'brien, Pat Wyatt ,Bill Roper, Dave Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North, Blizzard was the best gaming company at that time. Now that all are gone, Blizzard is really an avevrage gaming company that is living off others reputation, milking every franchise they have because thats all they know how to do and it takes them 8+ years to even finish a project these days (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3).
Blizzard is the same company they have always been.. They still produce quality and the loss of developers has not changed that ( Looking at Hellgate London I think Blizzard has more to do with the success than any single person ).
GW is ok but not my cup of tea.. It lacked just about everything I look for in a game.. especially when it comes to that type of game.
They made good to great games, but I do not know them from a mmorpg. Thus far its all promises and speculation.
Time will tell.... I got burned by warhammer online they made it all sound so good. I'm left with that BIG collection box and in a way I like it. It reminds me not to fall for the hype. If people are positive months after the release and people stay subscribed I'll look into it. That or a trial.
They made good to great games, but I do not know them from a mmorpg. Thus far its all promises and speculation. Time will tell.... I got burned by warhammer online they made it all sound so good. I'm left with that BIG collection box and in a way I like it. It reminds me not to fall for the hype. If people are positive months after the release and people stay subscribed I'll look into it. That or a trial.
Anyone who was really expecting a great/good game from Warhammer got what they deserved. When a company decides to cut over half the content a few months before release, it's a good idea to cancel that pre-order or wait to purchase.
A linear storyline based game will not be more popular than the more open WoW. What you have to do is make a game that is more open than WoW to beat WoW. Like Darkfall for example. You need innovation, not handcuffs.
Sorry. If I wanted linear, I would read a book or play a console game. I like multiple choice. And Bioware has a while before they reach that status. Not to mention um.....where is their WoW?
This new game looks good, and I think people will be surprised by it. You can't assume it will be a "linear storyline" because there just isn't enough information on it. I'm certainly curious to see what it's like.
Looking at Biowares previous RPG's it's hard to say they haven't done a brilliant job, particularly with the Mass Effect trilogy. I'm curious to see how they do this MMO, and how it will differ from their previous works. Although their single-player RPG's haven't been open ended to the extent of games such as Oblivion or Fallout 3, their storylines, quests and NPC interaction, in my opinion at least, are brilliant. The fact is Bioware haven't made a MMO before, at this level at least, and so you can't assume anything based upon their previous single player games, in terms of the techniques used for the sole purpose of a single player RPG.
As for Blizzard's own new game, considering their horrid performance as of late (at least in my opinion) and considering how much I dislike the repetitive and simplistic nature of WoW I don't expect much from it. As it stands I'm hoping with all my heart they don't stuff up Diablo 3 as well. But as not to be a Hypocrite, I'm keeping a broad mind and am interested at least to see what they do.
Looking at Biowares previous RPG's it's hard to say they haven't done a brilliant job, particularly with the Mass Effect trilogy... As for Blizzard's own new game, considering their horrid performance as of late (at least in my opinion) and considering how much I dislike the repetitive and simplistic nature of WoW ...
Mass Effect is a simple game.
To tell the truth Mass Effect gets the KOTOR formula, simplify it and then mix it with Gears of War, all with great production value and cinematic story telling.(keep in mind, cinematic is not equal to complex)
Encounters, party dynamics, character development, spells/skills system and interaction between classes are always simple in the last Bioware games, Dragon Age has it a bit more indepth but it is a bit simplistic if you compare to a couple of JRPGs that also use party system in single player games.
Mass Effect 2 is even more simple than the first, but it has more action and cinematic feel with great production value.
World of Warcraft and Blizzard games are not more "simplistic" than Bioware games, especially after Baldur's Gate.
Compare group dynamics, character development, gear system, spells/skills/buffs/debuffs in WoW (or EQ2/EQ/GW/VG) with Mass Effect.
Don't forget that everything is easy in Mass Effect, every player will be able to watch the whole story. In MMORPGs, including Blizzard's game you have the ultra easy, easy, medium, hard and very hard encounters, raids and bosses. Do you think Bioware can pull the variety is needed in a MMO?
As I said, Mass Effect is easy and acessible all the time, but lets take Dragon Age that is a bit more challenging.
In Dragon Age some ordinary enemies hit harder and kill you faster than Bosses, encounter balace is something Bioware never was able to create.
See, there are a lot of cutscenes, facial animations and dialogues in Mass Effect, but it doesn't make it a "complex" game.
Do you think dialogue options make Mass Effect complex? Then Heavy Rain would be an ultra complex game.
You have a lot of cutscenes and dialogues in Mafia, Silent Hill2 and even Soul Reaver, but the story and moral concept of these games still are much more complex than the stories of Bioware games were you will always find all kind of cliches.
I am not saying complex is good and simple is bad, I just disagree with your argument. Bioware games are not complex (especially comparing to blizzard, soe, arena net, nc soft games), are not challenging, but they are well produced for sure.
SWTOR will not be linear, this has been addressed.
But we shall see if this game that has been hyped up so much already will be something of legends. The Beta testing is more then likely starting either this summer or fall easy.
Has crafting system, aunction house, raids, and will include end game content on release.
Bioware is covering its bases on this one, they are up against RED5 and Blizzard's new ScifI MMO. I think that they are leaving no stone unturned and have decided to go no holds barred. However even I remain skeptical, cause I like to explore and just wander around like some amnesiac.
Do not try to be a great gamer, just be a gamer. Cause, I don't care how good you are anyway.
SWTOR will not be linear, this has been addressed.
But we shall see if this game that has been hyped up so much already will be something of legends. The Beta testing is more then likely starting either this summer or fall easy. Has crafting system, aunction house, raids, and will include end game content on release.
Bioware is covering its bases on this one, they are up against RED5 and Blizzard's new ScifI MMO. I think that they are leaving no stone unturned and have decided to go no holds barred. However even I remain skeptical, cause I like to explore and just wander around like some amnesiac.
Hey I am a fan of Bioware's work, for the most part thoughy pairing with EA seems to have turned them into micro-tran addicts, but there is nowhere i am going to believe the hype for SWTOR anymore than I believed the hype of any other game... none of which ever live up to it.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Comments
Bioware will never be better than Blizzard.
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking?
Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW.
So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
UGH! I hate when people say horrible crap about SC 2 being split up into three parts! One part is larger then the WHOLE SC campaign. It is HUGE! Read before POSTING!
Diablo 3 has been in development because of Blizzards CRAZY best game ideology. They have this stupid ideology that if the game is not polished to the max and is not the best thing out in the market they will delay it and improve more and more (blame ghost for this ideology). Really just wait.. they are not getting ANY money from diablo 3 nor from SC 2 has they have no been released yet. If anything they are losing money from these two titles so far.
It isn't about how much content the 3 parts will have , it is about why they should have 3 parts at all other than tthe obvious faction of milking it and being greedy for that green. I'll be playing Starcraft2 for sure but I really see no need to make SC2 into 3 part other than the fact they want to bleed their fanbase of more money.
So you are telling me that it is totally acceptable for Blizzard to have Diablo 3 in 9 years developement and still counting ? Duke Nukem forever!
So after they release D3 it will have been 11/12 years in developement for a rpg and you call that effecient ? I call it a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing. If D3 was a mmo I would really cut them some slack because mmos are more time consuming to make.
I just don't see how you can argue with such well thought out logic.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking?
Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW.
So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
UGH! I hate when people say horrible crap about SC 2 being split up into three parts! One part is larger then the WHOLE SC campaign. It is HUGE! Read before POSTING!
Diablo 3 has been in development because of Blizzards CRAZY best game ideology. They have this stupid ideology that if the game is not polished to the max and is not the best thing out in the market they will delay it and improve more and more (blame ghost for this ideology). Really just wait.. they are not getting ANY money from diablo 3 nor from SC 2 has they have no been released yet. If anything they are losing money from these two titles so far.
It isn't about how much content the 3 parts will have , it is about why they should have 3 parts at all other than tthe obvious faction of milking it and being greedy for that green. I'll be playing Starcraft2 for sure but I really see no need to make SC2 into 3 part other than the fact they want to bleed their fanbase of more money.
So you are telling me that it is totally acceptable for Blizzard to have Diablo 3 in 9 years developement and still counting ? Duke Nukem forever!
So after they release D3 it will have been 11/12 years in developement for a rpg and you call that effecient ? I call it a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing. If D3 was a mmo I would really cut them some slack because mmos are more time consuming to make.
I don't see it has bleeding the fanbase. As long as each part is worth the value then so be it. What will be your complaint be if you are getting the same amount of content then that of other games out in the market? Should Blizzard put out all this content into one pack and mark it the same value of games that have half or even 1/3 the content that SC 2 has? No company in their right mind would put all this development money into all this extra content and make pretty much 3 games and mark it as one game. They would not be making a profit out of it.
It is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. I mean it is their game and they have the right to keep it in development for as long as they want. I really did not get what the big fuss was about over Duke Nukem forever. If they do not want to release it ohh well. Move along. Do you know the current state of Diablo 3? You are making these assumptions that might not be true at all. Maybe they have their fundings into something else, maybe their development team are being focused onto an other project. These two things will slow down the development of any game.
Once Blizzard comes out with something new and it is a success. No one will complain about how long it took or anything like that. I mean look at Darkfall. How many people still talk about how long it took and how it nearly went into vapourware status?
So they spend 8 years working on games and thats milking? Bioware pumped out Mass Effect 2 in 2 years and thats not milking?
Bioware is not the new blizzard. SWTOR is not going to be anywhere near as big as WoW.
So far it doesn't look like SWTOR is going to improve on any part of the mmo genre. The only note worthy thing about SWTOR is its instanced storytelling. Having singleplayer storytelling in an mmorpg is not progress, it will never be as good as in a singleplayer game.
They are going to be splitting Starcraft 2 into 3 parts because they want to be greedy and make people pay for a single player campaign that the majority will not care about ? All we care about is the multiplayer portion so we can have fun against and with other players. Sorry but Blizzard has lost so much talent that the only thing left to do is do what they know and thats milk WoW and Starcraft and eventually give us Diablo 3 (which has been in developement since 2001!) .
UGH! I hate when people say horrible crap about SC 2 being split up into three parts! One part is larger then the WHOLE SC campaign. It is HUGE! Read before POSTING!
Diablo 3 has been in development because of Blizzards CRAZY best game ideology. They have this stupid ideology that if the game is not polished to the max and is not the best thing out in the market they will delay it and improve more and more (blame ghost for this ideology). Really just wait.. they are not getting ANY money from diablo 3 nor from SC 2 has they have no been released yet. If anything they are losing money from these two titles so far.
It isn't about how much content the 3 parts will have , it is about why they should have 3 parts at all other than tthe obvious faction of milking it and being greedy for that green. I'll be playing Starcraft2 for sure but I really see no need to make SC2 into 3 part other than the fact they want to bleed their fanbase of more money.
So you are telling me that it is totally acceptable for Blizzard to have Diablo 3 in 9 years developement and still counting ? Duke Nukem forever!
So after they release D3 it will have been 11/12 years in developement for a rpg and you call that effecient ? I call it a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing. If D3 was a mmo I would really cut them some slack because mmos are more time consuming to make.
So is releasing expansions to games milking them or expanded the content? Also, did it occur to you that companies aren't going to waste their time to make and release a game if their current game is making them plenty of money, that's when you make gold/combined packages and then a new game.
Who knows, Diablo III might have been scratched several times, look at StarCraft: Ghost, Blizzard doesn't just pump out games and if you want call them greedy then why didn't they just release Ghost? Why haven't they released Diablo III or StarCraft II by now? If they are so greedy, then clearly there would be more games out.
From 1994-2003 they had released ten games and expansions, since 2004 (and release of WoW) they have released three games and expansions. They also charge half the price SOE does for server transfers and give services that you don't REQUIRE or NEED, but only if you WANT for World of Warcraft. Blizzard is greedy in the sense that they make a lot of money, but the accusation that they somehow use their power in terms of how much money they make, to make more money is absurd.
Hmm what can be more linear then push button get window choose instance you wanne run wait in que and with cross realms you be send to that instance.
thats SUPER LINEAR 0mtrs movement to instance lol.
WoW is not open anymore hehe.
Darkfall is best, but its for nich market it will never be for huge market, its just to hardcore as it should be:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
So is releasing expansions to games milking them or expanded the content? Also, did it occur to you that companies aren't going to waste their time to make and release a game if their current game is making them plenty of money, that's when you make gold/combined packages and then a new game.
Who knows, Diablo III might have been scratched several times, look at StarCraft: Ghost, Blizzard doesn't just pump out games and if you want call them greedy then why didn't they just release Ghost? Why haven't they released Diablo III or StarCraft II by now? If they are so greedy, then clearly there would be more games out.
From 1994-2003 they had released ten games and expansions, since 2004 (and release of WoW) they have released three games and expansions. They also charge half the price SOE does for server transfers and give services that you don't REQUIRE or NEED, but only if you WANT for World of Warcraft. Blizzard is greedy in the sense that they make a lot of money, but the accusation that they somehow use their power in terms of how much money they make, to make more money is absurd.
It's worse than that. Let's take a closer look at what they've released:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment
Saying that Blizzard released three games and expansions since 2004 is a bit overstating it. Upon closer look we have:
World of Warcraft 2004 MMORPG set in the Warcraft universe.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007 expansion pack
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King 2008 expansion pack
What that tells me is that as a game development company, they have stagnated and that their sole source of income is maintaining WoW. Starcraft (1998) was the last time Blizzard introduced a new intellectual property, that's 12 years ago! If I was an investor, I would say that Blizzard has lost its growth mojo and lacks the creativity and imagination to expand beyond its existing IPs. In other words, this company is dead in the water and ain't going anywhere. Prospects for growth ain't looking so good and the competitors are more attractive as growth investments, Bioware being one of them.
Bioware? are u okay?
Bioware has follow the money to the logical end: make shooters for 14 years olds.
It use to be a RPG maker, but is dyiing. Games like ME2 are still fun, but this will not last much :-/
So, Blizzard is greedy because they are splitting up SC2 but Bioware isnt greedy for charging $6 for DLC quests that take an hour to complete?
Bioware isnt greedy for releasing a $40 expansion after 4 months?
Oh, but no, Blizzard is greedy and Bioware is completely benevolent.
Isn't a common complaint against Blizzard and WoW that their games are too simple? And that's why they are so popular.
So, if you want TOR to be a good game wouldn't you not want it to beat WoW?
He does think it will. He thinks it is going to be the 'wow killa'! Initially he thought it would be CO but that was just a minor oversight.
Besides, if they adopt his concept of Sith players only being allowed to play perma death toons and Jedi players being transformed into pikachus upon res there's no way this game can fail.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This idea that games advance in order to stomp on other games (or their studios) is fascinating. I must refer the thread's author to The Brainy Gamer's recent post on this subject.
I like old Bioware and old Blizzard games.
Both new Bioware and Blizzard games sucks.
That is all.
You have a good point.
Every Bioware game has 3 details that doen't work well in a MMO.
1- Group/Class interaction between the player and NPCs is simplistic, very simplistic in every Bioware RPG. If we compare the group dynamics of Bioware games with Square Enix games it is easy to realise Bioware does not care or just don't know how to create a interesting and more complex "party" dynamics. This may work well with just one player and a couple of NPCs or in a multiplayer session in NeverWinter Nights, but it would be horrid in a MMORPG.
2-Broken worlds- every game Bioware made does not had the idea of a breathing world in it, I am not talking about zoning only, but loading all the time, the storytelling is more important than the feeling of a "alternative universe" for Bioware. Will they try something different now? They never did something really new, especially after KOTOR, every Bioware game that came after is a evolution of KOTOR, Dragon Age has a bit more of Baldur's Gate on it, but even so, will they revolutionize their on patterns to create a "game universe" needed in a MMORPG?
3-They never created complex combat dynamics that showed how important spells, skills and gear can be, usually in a Bioware games you have a selection of skills and spells and get loot all the time, but everything is generic and does not compare to the mechanics of gear/characters skills/stats of MMORPGs like Everquest2, Vanguard, WoW and Guild Wars. This is not a real issue in single player games that have a short term gameplay, will it work in a MMORPG?
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If we were in New York City right now, you'd be the guy screaming about the end of the world on the milk crate with a mega phone. The mega phone is an option unless you were homeless, which could also be a definite possibility.
Baseless slippery-slope assumption. A does not mean B.
They just make these Star Wars games for novelty reasons.
However, if you had said that the vast majority of Star Wars fans had not probably even heard about MMOs at the time when SWG came out, you probably would have been correct.
You are grasping at straws.. Just because the games are made mean nothing. The amount of people who play Star Wars games pale in comparison to the actual number of Star Wars fans. Its a simple concept that you are overlooking.
Blizzard is the same company they have always been.. They still produce quality and the loss of developers has not changed that ( Looking at Hellgate London I think Blizzard has more to do with the success than any single person ).
GW is ok but not my cup of tea.. It lacked just about everything I look for in a game.. especially when it comes to that type of game.
They made good to great games, but I do not know them from a mmorpg. Thus far its all promises and speculation.
Time will tell.... I got burned by warhammer online they made it all sound so good. I'm left with that BIG collection box and in a way I like it. It reminds me not to fall for the hype. If people are positive months after the release and people stay subscribed I'll look into it. That or a trial.
Anyone who was really expecting a great/good game from Warhammer got what they deserved. When a company decides to cut over half the content a few months before release, it's a good idea to cancel that pre-order or wait to purchase.
Ya cause darkfall is killing wow right?
Sorry. If I wanted linear, I would read a book or play a console game. I like multiple choice. And Bioware has a while before they reach that status. Not to mention um.....where is their WoW?
Getting too old for this $&17!
This new game looks good, and I think people will be surprised by it. You can't assume it will be a "linear storyline" because there just isn't enough information on it. I'm certainly curious to see what it's like.
Looking at Biowares previous RPG's it's hard to say they haven't done a brilliant job, particularly with the Mass Effect trilogy. I'm curious to see how they do this MMO, and how it will differ from their previous works. Although their single-player RPG's haven't been open ended to the extent of games such as Oblivion or Fallout 3, their storylines, quests and NPC interaction, in my opinion at least, are brilliant. The fact is Bioware haven't made a MMO before, at this level at least, and so you can't assume anything based upon their previous single player games, in terms of the techniques used for the sole purpose of a single player RPG.
As for Blizzard's own new game, considering their horrid performance as of late (at least in my opinion) and considering how much I dislike the repetitive and simplistic nature of WoW I don't expect much from it. As it stands I'm hoping with all my heart they don't stuff up Diablo 3 as well. But as not to be a Hypocrite, I'm keeping a broad mind and am interested at least to see what they do.
Veiled Black, Darkness Incarnate
Mass Effect is a simple game.
To tell the truth Mass Effect gets the KOTOR formula, simplify it and then mix it with Gears of War, all with great production value and cinematic story telling.(keep in mind, cinematic is not equal to complex)
Encounters, party dynamics, character development, spells/skills system and interaction between classes are always simple in the last Bioware games, Dragon Age has it a bit more indepth but it is a bit simplistic if you compare to a couple of JRPGs that also use party system in single player games.
Mass Effect 2 is even more simple than the first, but it has more action and cinematic feel with great production value.
World of Warcraft and Blizzard games are not more "simplistic" than Bioware games, especially after Baldur's Gate.
Compare group dynamics, character development, gear system, spells/skills/buffs/debuffs in WoW (or EQ2/EQ/GW/VG) with Mass Effect.
Don't forget that everything is easy in Mass Effect, every player will be able to watch the whole story. In MMORPGs, including Blizzard's game you have the ultra easy, easy, medium, hard and very hard encounters, raids and bosses. Do you think Bioware can pull the variety is needed in a MMO?
As I said, Mass Effect is easy and acessible all the time, but lets take Dragon Age that is a bit more challenging.
In Dragon Age some ordinary enemies hit harder and kill you faster than Bosses, encounter balace is something Bioware never was able to create.
See, there are a lot of cutscenes, facial animations and dialogues in Mass Effect, but it doesn't make it a "complex" game.
Do you think dialogue options make Mass Effect complex? Then Heavy Rain would be an ultra complex game.
You have a lot of cutscenes and dialogues in Mafia, Silent Hill2 and even Soul Reaver, but the story and moral concept of these games still are much more complex than the stories of Bioware games were you will always find all kind of cliches.
I am not saying complex is good and simple is bad, I just disagree with your argument. Bioware games are not complex (especially comparing to blizzard, soe, arena net, nc soft games), are not challenging, but they are well produced for sure.
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SWTOR will not be linear, this has been addressed.
But we shall see if this game that has been hyped up so much already will be something of legends. The Beta testing is more then likely starting either this summer or fall easy.
Has crafting system, aunction house, raids, and will include end game content on release.
Bioware is covering its bases on this one, they are up against RED5 and Blizzard's new ScifI MMO. I think that they are leaving no stone unturned and have decided to go no holds barred. However even I remain skeptical, cause I like to explore and just wander around like some amnesiac.
Do not try to be a great gamer, just be a gamer. Cause, I don't care how good you are anyway.
Hey I am a fan of Bioware's work, for the most part thoughy pairing with EA seems to have turned them into micro-tran addicts, but there is nowhere i am going to believe the hype for SWTOR anymore than I believed the hype of any other game... none of which ever live up to it.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.