They have said many times that everything sold in the C-Store will be non-gameplay affecting (like races, costumes, pets, etc.)
In my opinion, a playable race is a pretty gameplay-affecting attribute, especially for a role-playing game. Its one of the reasons I decided not to keep playing DDO.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Again, the C-Store will sell zone content, aside from just 'trinkets'. A Champions Online new zone (Vibora Bay) for a level range (37-40) that is already covered by two existing zones will be pay to play, again, Vibora Bay will be a piece of paid content, as I would expect this company to follow-suit with STO.
I dont care, since I wont subscribe to these charlatans beyond month 1, but the fact remains that a clear majority of players are displeased with how Cryptic is handling the new addition, particularly the gullible that are Life-Time subscribers thinking that they should have an expansion pass.
particularly the gullible that are Life-Time subscribers thinking that they should have an expansion pass.
I'm still amazed by that one. People didn't realize that, to get the most out of the lifetime sub, you'd actually have to buy future expansions? Especially if one would come up before you would theoretically "get your money back" with a lifetime sub?
The rumor that you will have to buy additional zones and levels, etc. is a complete load of crap made up by people who think that any sale of game content is "EVIL". They have said many times that everything sold in the C-Store will be either non-gameplay affecting (like races, costumes, pets, etc.) and if something goes in that does (say they added a special rare weapon perhaps) that it WOULD BE OBTAINABLE THROUGH NORMAL GAMEPLAY as well. This is not an item mall; it's not like the DDO Store either. They have little extras planned to be offered for those people who like "shiney" items/social gadgets and gizmos. People need to quit making up things and posting their fears everywhere as if it's fact.
And yet the races on offer right now DO effect gameplay, and they CAN'T be attained in game...
So this kinda blows the basis of your point apart, right at the first product they offer. Lies right from the start... why would you have faith in or trust anything else they say?
Briht, I get that you like this game, but you don't owe Cryptic a living by working to defend their lies and profiteering.
I don't see how klingons and Ferengi officers effect gameplay? Other than asthetically I mean.
As for DLC, we better hell get some good stuff free. I understand selling areas in the C store content wise. (It's just the same as buying an expansion really.) I think it's far too early to start assuming though. Personally I'd just like to see more end game content (No im not there yet.) Elaboration on the exploration side of things, make it deeper! Finally, last but definately not least, we need stuff for player fleets, their own system, starbase, whatever. Make it customizable.
Cryptic would do well to address those issues. Maybe even attempt to make a crafting system lol.
Did you follow the link?
The link was there to be followed.
My advice is to follow the link.
And my advice is don't state false facts about a game you don't play or know anything about. As I've already explained on a dozen threads those bonuses CAN be aquired in game... the Ferengi bonuses by creating an alien with the same bonus traits, and the klingon by rolling regular Klingon.
I'm really tired of explaining this to people that don't play and aren't interested in playing STO, but at the same time it's not fair of to spread completely false information to people who might be.
Let me be clear.
Your statement is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon?
Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store.
I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful.
The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
I was watching the Champions store, and i didnt notice any "Content selling bs"
Only the standard crap that even guild wars sell... by the way some of this stuff should be redundant, like u can buy it right now... or do tons of things in the game to get it, example: the respec lol...
Checking facts or thinking is something you can't really expect from most of the people.
It was countless time pointed out that C-Store is nothing unusual or affecting gameplay but people just keep ranting as they do on other STO so called 'issues'...
You are just speaking for yourself it seems.
People have posted repeatedly on this and proven it otherwise (already!) yet you ignore it because it dosent fit your perception.
Offering additional races at launch for sale IS 'unusual' in a sub based MMORPG, and they DO affect gameplay.
Read it and then carry on saying the same thing as you was before, as I know you will. Forums on the internet arnt for actually changing anyone's mind, I know.
You mean in the same way you read it, as the page you cited contains plenty of explination from actual players (instead of people who got all the information of internet sources) as to how these racial bonuses are available in game with out paying extra... and then carried on saying the same thing as before?
Yeah, you made pretty good point there... that's exactly how it works.
I was watching the Champions store, and i didnt notice any "Content selling bs"
Only the standard crap that even guild wars sell... by the way some of this stuff should be redundant, like u can buy it right now... or do tons of things in the game to get it, example: the respec lol...
Checking facts or thinking is something you can't really expect from most of the people.
It was countless time pointed out that C-Store is nothing unusual or affecting gameplay but people just keep ranting as they do on other STO so called 'issues'...
You are just speaking for yourself it seems.
People have posted repeatedly on this and proven it otherwise (already!) yet you ignore it because it dosent fit your perception.
Offering additional races at launch for sale IS 'unusual' in a sub based MMORPG, and they DO affect gameplay.
Read it and then carry on saying the same thing as you was before, as I know you will. Forums on the internet arnt for actually changing anyone's mind, I know.
You mean in the same way you read it, as the page you cited contains plenty of explination from actual players (instead of people who got all the information of internet sources) as to how these racial bonuses are available in game with out paying extra... and then carried on saying the same thing as before?
Yeah, you made pretty good point there... that's exactly how it works.
I will ask the same thing of you then, just to be fair...
Your statement also is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon?
Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store.
I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful.
The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
Well, the way I see things is like this. If a company is charging you a subscription fee, you're not only paying for server cost, maintenance, and customer service, which the cost spread out over several hundred thousand players is minimal, you're really paying for continued development of the game. So by rights, in my opinion, whatever is developed using your subscription fees is yours. Meaning you should have access to what they've been developing for no additional cost. Now that's just fair. This includes fluff and non-fluff items. If I paid $15/mo, received no new content, and the developers tell me they've been creating fluff items during that time, but I'll have to buy it off the c-store, they're smoking crack. We deserve those fluff items in a patch, because without our $15/mo, they wouldn't of been able to create those items.
Now it's really a little too late to take a stance like I said above, because people are accustomed to buying expansions. So whether or not we buy the expansion in a large patch, which comes in a box, or in mini-patches bought from the c-store, doesn't matter. However, both should actually expand the game. Content updates, meaning things being added to the already existing game world should be included with the subscription fee. This includes quests, dungeons, raids, events, bug fixes, stability fixes and so on. This is because all of that isn't actually expanding the game. Expanding the game is much like what all MMO's do when they release an expansion. They usually release a new race or class, or both, a new continent or handful of zones, a new crafting profession, a new level cap, a new time intensive story arc and so on. I point to EQ, DAoC, UO, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO and so on for examples of this.
No I am not bothered by Cryptic selling races in their C-Store, although I should be. Aside frome xpansion packs, selling races just isn't done. When you sell races the same week of release, it means that they're selling something that was developed before the game even release, which is normally included in the box. Now if they'd of waited 6 months and then put those races on the C-Store, it'd be a little different, because then they could argue that they developed those races after release, but considering that we already see those races as BO's and you can already play Klingon's with the Klingon faction, we already know it was already developed. Luckily for Cryptic, I don't want to play a Klingon or big ear.
Originally posted by vesavius I will ask the same thing of you then, just to be fair... Your statement also is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon? Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store. I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful. The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
No, you can't why should you?
Klingons are at war with Federation in STO timeline and Ferrengi are not even a part of it. Because of this, they are avaiable at C-Store as an extra only.
Well, the way I see things is like this. If a company is charging you a subscription fee, you're not only paying for server cost, maintenance, and customer service, which over several hundred thousand players is minimal, you're really paying for continued development of the game. So by rights, in my opinion, whatever is developed using your subscription fees is yours. Meaning you should have access to what they've been developing for no additional cost. Now that's just fair. Now it's really a little too late to take a stance like I said above, because people are accustomed to buying expansions. So whether or not we buy the expansion in a large patch, which comes in a box, or in mini-patches bought from the c-store, doesn't matter.
I don't have a problem with what your sayingin general Nate, but... (always a but right?)
There is a HUGE difference between buying an expansion that gives you playable conent with 'prizes' to be won for learning and beating it and a store that lets you avoid playing the actual game and go straight to buying the reward.
I will ask the same thing of you then, just to be fair...
Your statement also is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon?
Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store.
I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful.
The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
No, you can't why should you?
Klingons are at war with Federation in STO timeline and Ferrengi are not even a part of it. Because of this, they are avaiable at C-Store as an extra only.
because Cryptic said I would be able to...
They lied.
And now your working for them justifying their lies through game lore (that obviously has been soooo precious to Cryptic up to this point right?).
Originally posted by vesavius because Cryptic said I would be able to... They lied. And now your working for them justifying their lies through game lore (that obviously has been soooo precious to Cryptic up to this point right?). Makes me sad
They didn't say anything like that. Cryptic is not the one lying here.
The C-store will most likely be used to sell "trinklets" and not game content. People who say that the store is gonna sell game updates or content is prob talking out thier cornhole. Where is the proof or evidence that they are gonna sell content via C-store? (BBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH uses plunger in mating ritual with hot Klingon noblewoman!)
You mean like the new zone that is being sold for CO, thats not content?
I will ask the same thing of you then, just to be fair...
Your statement also is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon?
Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store.
I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful.
The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
No, you can't why should you?
Klingons are at war with Federation in STO timeline and Ferrengi are not even a part of it. Because of this, they are avaiable at C-Store as an extra only.
While I disagree with the idea of FED Klingons, there is precedent via Human raised Klingons (Maybe they were found abandoned), but they should not have the racials of a true Klingon. A true Klingon would not fight for the Federation, hell even Worf choose his own race, many times, after regaining his honour.
The ferengi, while not part of the FEDERATION where allowed into Starfleet in DS9. Both Rom and Nog joined them.
Played WOW (5 years), AOC, AO, EQ2,AC2, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, CO, STO(Beta),ROM, Allods, and many other F2P titles. Asl been in beta for many of the main titles and played countless SP games. I have been gaming for 15+ years!
Originally posted by vesavius Yes they did. "But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game." http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/3977 Want to review your statement?
Yes, but races in C-Store does not affect gameplay so it is not the case... They are appereance perk only.
Yes, but races in C-Store does not affect gameplay so it is not the case... They are appereance perk only.
Well you could argue that there unique traits, caould affect gameplay.
Played WOW (5 years), AOC, AO, EQ2,AC2, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, CO, STO(Beta),ROM, Allods, and many other F2P titles. Asl been in beta for many of the main titles and played countless SP games. I have been gaming for 15+ years!
Yes, but races in C-Store does not affect gameplay so it is not the case... They are appereance perk only.
My god.. we are going around in circles... One last time...
The product for sale in the C-Store have in game affects attached to them (THEY AFFECT GAMEPLAY) and there isnt a way to attain them for free via play in the game.
To gain them I would have to pay extra to Cryptic on top of my box cost. If they had been unlockable in game then we wouldnt even be having this conversation, but they arnt.
In short, Cryptic are full of it, they lied, on day one of launch no less.
And you trust and defend these people for the future? More fool you.
Originally posted by nate1980 Well, the way I see things is like this. If a company is charging you a subscription fee, you're not only paying for server cost, maintenance, and customer service, which the cost spread out over several hundred thousand players is minimal, you're really paying for continued development of the game.
You are paying for access to service(EULA). Vast majority of MMOs with monthly fee more or less charge for additional content.
Only exception I know is EVE Online releasing 2 free expansions per year.
Originally posted by Dragon71UK While I disagree with the idea of FED Klingons, there is precedent via Human raised Klingons (Maybe they were found abandoned), but they should not have the racials of a true Klingon. A true Klingon would not fight for the Federation, hell even Worf choose his own race, many times, after regaining his honour. The ferengi, while not part of the FEDERATION where allowed into Starfleet in DS9. Both Rom and Nog joined them.
I am not sure I understand your point here... I think we both say the same - federtion Klingon and Ferengi are exceptional to see in starfleet.
To me it seems to be a good choice for C-Store - extra perks.
Originally posted by vesavius My god.. we are going around in circles... One last time... The product for sale in the C-Store have in game affects attached to them (THEY AFFECT GAMEPLAY) and there isnt a way to attain them for free via play in the game. To gain them I would have to pay extra to Cryptic on top of my box cost. If they had been unlockable in game then we wouldnt even be having this conversation, but they arnt. In short, Cryptic are full of it, they lied, on day one of launch no less. And you trust and defend these people for the future? More fool you.
Originally posted by Dragon71UK Well you could argue that there unique traits, caould affect gameplay.
Why would I argue?
If someone is flying Pink colored cruiser with engine trails made of little red hearts named U.S.S Pinky caboose! it has same bearing on my gameplay as someone playing Federation Klingon - none.
You are paying for access to service(EULA). Vast majority of MMOs with monthly fee more or less charge for additional content. Only exception I know is EVE Online releasing 2 free expansions per year.
The majority that I have played offer frequent mini-expansions for free. In LotRO a new one is coming up (Book 3.) More major game additions are offered as paid expansions. Admittedly, the line could blur.
Speaking to a Race on start-up being offered as a paid extra, it kept me from seriously considering the game. I hate being nickled-and-dimed.
Gdemami, being a fan and all is your good right. But you are honestly defending this...business model?
Okay, let's "pretend" it's all just fluff items...why not offer them for free? It's all about money and if they have to offer races, fluff items and lifetime subs, that shows that
a) they don't care shit for their player base
b) they don't trust their own product to keep their subs, so they aim to make as much money in the first few months as possible.
Can you honestly say Box Prize+Subscription fee+item shop+possible fee for future expansions is justified?
Many are hating on the f2p games for having an item shop, but if it is Star Trek, it's suddenly "ok"? What tells you that they won't soon sell weapons or gear that you can't or that is hard to acquire in game that will destroy the game?
And PS: There wasn't anything mentioned of having to buy "any" race. If someone wanted to play a Federation Klingon and can only make a look-alike, it DOES effect his or her gameplay, because he/she can't play the race he/she wanted to play.
The majority that I have played offer frequent mini-expansions for free. In LotRO a new one is coming up (Book 3.) More major game additions are offered as paid expansions. Admittedly, the line could blur. Speaking to a Race on start-up being offered as a paid extra, it kept me from seriously considering the game. I hate being nickled-and-dimed.
I said 'more or less'
STO is week after release...talking about a nature of new content is a bit too early, don't you think so?
Once the new expansion is there, you can consider wheter you want to pay for it or now as well as you can consider how much content/improvement was added since release.
The race is only appereance and optional. No nickle-and-dime...
Originally posted by reijan Gdemami, being a fan and all is your good right. But you are honestly defending this...business model? Okay, let's "pretend" it's all just fluff items...why not offer them for free? It's all about money and if they have to offer races, fluff items and lifetime subs, that shows that a) they don't care shit for their player base b) they don't trust their own product to keep their subs, so they aim to make as much money in the first few months as possible.
Can you honestly say Box Prize+Subscription fee+item shop+possible fee for future expansions is justified? Many are hating on the f2p games for having an item shop, but if it is Star Trek, it's suddenly "ok"? What tells you that they won't soon sell weapons or gear that you can't or that is hard to acquire in game that will destroy the game?
And PS: There wasn't anything mentioned of having to buy "any" race. If someone wanted to play a Federation Klingon and can only make a look-alike, it DOES effect his or her gameplay, because he/she can't play the race he/she wanted to play.
I am fan of EVE Online only
I am not playing pretending games, sorry. Any conclusion from there would again pretending only.
I will repost my opinion on business model from other thread with some edits:
Different games offer different services for different prices. It all depends on the game but in all cases the charge is for exclusivity and above standard services.
Everything there is fluff not affecting gameplay and/or exclusive services. It is nothing like micro-transaction => RMT => Item Mall seen with F2P games!
You are not charged as you imply, C-Store content is optional. No way you 'need' anything from there, no way anything would give you advantage over other players.
Offering an expansion through C-Store is just a matter of trade channel - nothing more, nothing less. There is no difference wheter you purchase it directly paying with your visa or you by CP and purchase it through C-Store.
Wheter 15$ monthly fee is enough or not to 'simply' pay for server and infrastructure maintenance along with upgrades, I can't say. But I can say that majority games charging monthy fee are charging for expansions too.
Conclusion: Cryptic is not doing anything uncommon. The C-Store might offer more services and items than other developers do but it is far from being dependant on or it makes any ingame difference.
Whether to purchase new content via C-Store is up to everyones consideration as is any expansion purchase.
Most of the MMOs go with box price+monthly_fee+paid_content_update+paid_services. So what's the difference in Cryptic case?
Cryptic is not doing anything uncommon. The C-Store might offer more services and items than other developers do but it is far from being dependant on or it makes any ingame difference. Whether to purchase new content via C-Store is up to everyones consideration as is any expansion purchase. Most of the MMOs go with box price+monthly_fee+paid_content_update+paid_services.
So what's the problem in Cryptic case?
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
Cryptic is not doing anything uncommon. The C-Store might offer more services and items than other developers do but it is far from being dependant on or it makes any ingame difference. Whether to purchase new content via C-Store is up to everyones consideration as is any expansion purchase. Most of the MMOs go with box price+monthly_fee+paid_content_update+paid_services.
So what's the problem in Cryptic case?
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
Originally posted by vesavius Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
If it makes them more money, it means people find worthy to spend their money there. I assume they do it willing and intentionlay, I have to ask:
Comments
In my opinion, a playable race is a pretty gameplay-affecting attribute, especially for a role-playing game. Its one of the reasons I decided not to keep playing DDO.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Again, the C-Store will sell zone content, aside from just 'trinkets'. A Champions Online new zone (Vibora Bay) for a level range (37-40) that is already covered by two existing zones will be pay to play, again, Vibora Bay will be a piece of paid content, as I would expect this company to follow-suit with STO.
I dont care, since I wont subscribe to these charlatans beyond month 1, but the fact remains that a clear majority of players are displeased with how Cryptic is handling the new addition, particularly the gullible that are Life-Time subscribers thinking that they should have an expansion pass.
I'm still amazed by that one. People didn't realize that, to get the most out of the lifetime sub, you'd actually have to buy future expansions? Especially if one would come up before you would theoretically "get your money back" with a lifetime sub?
And yet the races on offer right now DO effect gameplay, and they CAN'T be attained in game...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/268243/page/15
So this kinda blows the basis of your point apart, right at the first product they offer. Lies right from the start... why would you have faith in or trust anything else they say?
Briht, I get that you like this game, but you don't owe Cryptic a living by working to defend their lies and profiteering.
I don't see how klingons and Ferengi officers effect gameplay? Other than asthetically I mean.
As for DLC, we better hell get some good stuff free. I understand selling areas in the C store content wise. (It's just the same as buying an expansion really.) I think it's far too early to start assuming though. Personally I'd just like to see more end game content (No im not there yet.) Elaboration on the exploration side of things, make it deeper! Finally, last but definately not least, we need stuff for player fleets, their own system, starbase, whatever. Make it customizable.
Cryptic would do well to address those issues. Maybe even attempt to make a crafting system lol.
Did you follow the link?
The link was there to be followed.
My advice is to follow the link.
And my advice is don't state false facts about a game you don't play or know anything about. As I've already explained on a dozen threads those bonuses CAN be aquired in game... the Ferengi bonuses by creating an alien with the same bonus traits, and the klingon by rolling regular Klingon.
I'm really tired of explaining this to people that don't play and aren't interested in playing STO, but at the same time it's not fair of to spread completely false information to people who might be.
Let me be clear.
Your statement is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon?
Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store.
I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful.
The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
Checking facts or thinking is something you can't really expect from most of the people.
It was countless time pointed out that C-Store is nothing unusual or affecting gameplay but people just keep ranting as they do on other STO so called 'issues'...
You are just speaking for yourself it seems.
People have posted repeatedly on this and proven it otherwise (already!) yet you ignore it because it dosent fit your perception.
Offering additional races at launch for sale IS 'unusual' in a sub based MMORPG, and they DO affect gameplay.
Look, go here... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/268243/page/15
Read it and then carry on saying the same thing as you was before, as I know you will. Forums on the internet arnt for actually changing anyone's mind, I know.
You mean in the same way you read it, as the page you cited contains plenty of explination from actual players (instead of people who got all the information of internet sources) as to how these racial bonuses are available in game with out paying extra... and then carried on saying the same thing as before?
Yeah, you made pretty good point there... that's exactly how it works.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
Checking facts or thinking is something you can't really expect from most of the people.
It was countless time pointed out that C-Store is nothing unusual or affecting gameplay but people just keep ranting as they do on other STO so called 'issues'...
You are just speaking for yourself it seems.
People have posted repeatedly on this and proven it otherwise (already!) yet you ignore it because it dosent fit your perception.
Offering additional races at launch for sale IS 'unusual' in a sub based MMORPG, and they DO affect gameplay.
Look, go here... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/268243/page/15
Read it and then carry on saying the same thing as you was before, as I know you will. Forums on the internet arnt for actually changing anyone's mind, I know.
You mean in the same way you read it, as the page you cited contains plenty of explination from actual players (instead of people who got all the information of internet sources) as to how these racial bonuses are available in game with out paying extra... and then carried on saying the same thing as before?
Yeah, you made pretty good point there... that's exactly how it works.
I will ask the same thing of you then, just to be fair...
Your statement also is that I can make a ferengi with those same bonuses, in game, straight from the character creator? How about a Federation klingon?
Because if that ISNT your statement, then you admit that the information in that link is actually correct? I ask because thats the product thats being sold, and thats the one that Cryptic said would be available in game if it was in the store.
I am a fan of ST lore. I love the ferengi race. I am not interested in an 'almost' ferengi. I want a 'real' one. If you could link me a source on how to get that by simply playing the game I would have paid for (if I hadnt refunded) I would be very grateful.
The race + the stats = 1 product. Thats the product that i want, and Cryptic said that I would be able to get it without paying via play.
Well, the way I see things is like this. If a company is charging you a subscription fee, you're not only paying for server cost, maintenance, and customer service, which the cost spread out over several hundred thousand players is minimal, you're really paying for continued development of the game. So by rights, in my opinion, whatever is developed using your subscription fees is yours. Meaning you should have access to what they've been developing for no additional cost. Now that's just fair. This includes fluff and non-fluff items. If I paid $15/mo, received no new content, and the developers tell me they've been creating fluff items during that time, but I'll have to buy it off the c-store, they're smoking crack. We deserve those fluff items in a patch, because without our $15/mo, they wouldn't of been able to create those items.
Now it's really a little too late to take a stance like I said above, because people are accustomed to buying expansions. So whether or not we buy the expansion in a large patch, which comes in a box, or in mini-patches bought from the c-store, doesn't matter. However, both should actually expand the game. Content updates, meaning things being added to the already existing game world should be included with the subscription fee. This includes quests, dungeons, raids, events, bug fixes, stability fixes and so on. This is because all of that isn't actually expanding the game. Expanding the game is much like what all MMO's do when they release an expansion. They usually release a new race or class, or both, a new continent or handful of zones, a new crafting profession, a new level cap, a new time intensive story arc and so on. I point to EQ, DAoC, UO, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO and so on for examples of this.
No I am not bothered by Cryptic selling races in their C-Store, although I should be. Aside frome xpansion packs, selling races just isn't done. When you sell races the same week of release, it means that they're selling something that was developed before the game even release, which is normally included in the box. Now if they'd of waited 6 months and then put those races on the C-Store, it'd be a little different, because then they could argue that they developed those races after release, but considering that we already see those races as BO's and you can already play Klingon's with the Klingon faction, we already know it was already developed. Luckily for Cryptic, I don't want to play a Klingon or big ear.
No, you can't why should you?
Klingons are at war with Federation in STO timeline and Ferrengi are not even a part of it. Because of this, they are avaiable at C-Store as an extra only.
I don't have a problem with what your sayingin general Nate, but... (always a but right?)
There is a HUGE difference between buying an expansion that gives you playable conent with 'prizes' to be won for learning and beating it and a store that lets you avoid playing the actual game and go straight to buying the reward.
Play to Achieve > Pay to Achieve.
No, you can't why should you?
Klingons are at war with Federation in STO timeline and Ferrengi are not even a part of it. Because of this, they are avaiable at C-Store as an extra only.
because Cryptic said I would be able to...
They lied.
And now your working for them justifying their lies through game lore (that obviously has been soooo precious to Cryptic up to this point right?).
Makes me sad
They didn't say anything like that. Cryptic is not the one lying here.
You mean like the new zone that is being sold for CO, thats not content?
They didn't say anything like that. Cryptic is not the one lying here.
Yes they did.
"But we're sticking to the notion that if it affects gameplay, there will be ways of attaining whatever is available in the store in-game."
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/3977
Want to review your statement?
No, you can't why should you?
Klingons are at war with Federation in STO timeline and Ferrengi are not even a part of it. Because of this, they are avaiable at C-Store as an extra only.
While I disagree with the idea of FED Klingons, there is precedent via Human raised Klingons (Maybe they were found abandoned), but they should not have the racials of a true Klingon. A true Klingon would not fight for the Federation, hell even Worf choose his own race, many times, after regaining his honour.
The ferengi, while not part of the FEDERATION where allowed into Starfleet in DS9. Both Rom and Nog joined them.
Played WOW (5 years), AOC, AO, EQ2,AC2, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, CO, STO(Beta),ROM, Allods, and many other F2P titles. Asl been in beta for many of the main titles and played countless SP games. I have been gaming for 15+ years!
Yes, but races in C-Store does not affect gameplay so it is not the case... They are appereance perk only.
Yes, but races in C-Store does not affect gameplay so it is not the case... They are appereance perk only.
Well you could argue that there unique traits, caould affect gameplay.
Played WOW (5 years), AOC, AO, EQ2,AC2, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, CO, STO(Beta),ROM, Allods, and many other F2P titles. Asl been in beta for many of the main titles and played countless SP games. I have been gaming for 15+ years!
Yes, but races in C-Store does not affect gameplay so it is not the case... They are appereance perk only.
My god.. we are going around in circles... One last time...
The product for sale in the C-Store have in game affects attached to them (THEY AFFECT GAMEPLAY) and there isnt a way to attain them for free via play in the game.
To gain them I would have to pay extra to Cryptic on top of my box cost. If they had been unlockable in game then we wouldnt even be having this conversation, but they arnt.
In short, Cryptic are full of it, they lied, on day one of launch no less.
And you trust and defend these people for the future? More fool you.
You are paying for access to service(EULA). Vast majority of MMOs with monthly fee more or less charge for additional content.
Only exception I know is EVE Online releasing 2 free expansions per year.
I am not sure I understand your point here... I think we both say the same - federtion Klingon and Ferengi are exceptional to see in starfleet.
To me it seems to be a good choice for C-Store - extra perks.
Why would I argue?
If someone is flying Pink colored cruiser with engine trails made of little red hearts named U.S.S Pinky caboose! it has same bearing on my gameplay as someone playing Federation Klingon - none.
The majority that I have played offer frequent mini-expansions for free. In LotRO a new one is coming up (Book 3.) More major game additions are offered as paid expansions. Admittedly, the line could blur.
Speaking to a Race on start-up being offered as a paid extra, it kept me from seriously considering the game. I hate being nickled-and-dimed.
Gdemami, being a fan and all is your good right. But you are honestly defending this...business model?
Okay, let's "pretend" it's all just fluff items...why not offer them for free? It's all about money and if they have to offer races, fluff items and lifetime subs, that shows that
a) they don't care shit for their player base
b) they don't trust their own product to keep their subs, so they aim to make as much money in the first few months as possible.
Can you honestly say Box Prize+Subscription fee+item shop+possible fee for future expansions is justified?
Many are hating on the f2p games for having an item shop, but if it is Star Trek, it's suddenly "ok"? What tells you that they won't soon sell weapons or gear that you can't or that is hard to acquire in game that will destroy the game?
And PS: There wasn't anything mentioned of having to buy "any" race. If someone wanted to play a Federation Klingon and can only make a look-alike, it DOES effect his or her gameplay, because he/she can't play the race he/she wanted to play.
I said 'more or less'
STO is week after release...talking about a nature of new content is a bit too early, don't you think so?
Once the new expansion is there, you can consider wheter you want to pay for it or now as well as you can consider how much content/improvement was added since release.
The race is only appereance and optional. No nickle-and-dime...
I am fan of EVE Online only
I am not playing pretending games, sorry. Any conclusion from there would again pretending only.
I will repost my opinion on business model from other thread with some edits:
Different games offer different services for different prices. It all depends on the game but in all cases the charge is for exclusivity and above standard services.
So hated micro-transactions... First, please do take a look at what is being offered in C-Store for CO:
http://www.champions-online.com/store
Everything there is fluff not affecting gameplay and/or exclusive services. It is nothing like micro-transaction => RMT => Item Mall seen with F2P games!
You are not charged as you imply, C-Store content is optional. No way you 'need' anything from there, no way anything would give you advantage over other players.
Offering an expansion through C-Store is just a matter of trade channel - nothing more, nothing less. There is no difference wheter you purchase it directly paying with your visa or you by CP and purchase it through C-Store.
Wheter 15$ monthly fee is enough or not to 'simply' pay for server and infrastructure maintenance along with upgrades, I can't say. But I can say that majority games charging monthy fee are charging for expansions too.
Conclusion:
Cryptic is not doing anything uncommon. The C-Store might offer more services and items than other developers do but it is far from being dependant on or it makes any ingame difference.
Whether to purchase new content via C-Store is up to everyones consideration as is any expansion purchase.
Most of the MMOs go with box price+monthly_fee+paid_content_update+paid_services.
So what's the difference in Cryptic case?
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
My problem with Cryptic is that they launched a sub based game with minimal content, to leave room to sell you what other games give you, and then lied about it on day one, as I have demonstrated to you clearly.
And yet you defend them, and this business model, just because it's not 'uncommon'... It's like you want to be ripped off.
Listen, Cryptic aside, a lot of Devs love the MT model because it makes them more money, and that money can only only come from you and other players.
In other words, you are arguing fro a more expensive game experience. Why would you do that? Why, as a customer, do you want to pay them more for the same thing?
Whats the motivating factor to buy items in a shop, rather then playing the game to discover them, anyhow? Laziness? Greed? Stupidity? Jealousy? I don't get it.
Why, as a customer, and a gamer (as I guess you would consider yourself), wouldnt you rather play the game you had bought and win the rewards in it rather then going to a shop and buying that regard? What satisfaction is there in that?
It amazes me that so many have fallen so quickly to this BS business model for games... It's like the hype and spin from the devs has just been sucked up without even thinking.
You could just not use the store?
If it makes them more money, it means people find worthy to spend their money there. I assume they do it willing and intentionlay, I have to ask:
Who likes the MT here then? The devs or players?